David [from Bran & Brain] spoke with Gamasutra and was asked about why they didn’t decide to have their upcoming game published by Microsoft. He said that it’s difficult speaking with Microsoft than Sony.
360 helped to shine a light on console indie games but then MS went and tried to force indies to partner with a bigger publisher when it came to xbo.
In response, indies went over to Sony. Now that MS has 180 their decision and allow for self publishing, many indies are coming to xbo again.
Neither platform would be wise to ignore indies. Most, if not all, major developers started out small and had a breakthrough idea that helped to get them where they are today.
Microsoft muddled the messaging this generation (once again). They had a parity clause (which Sony did as well last generation but stopped this gen) and have been trying to play nice ever since. On top of that they had size restrictions (Microsoft) for game sizes and patches. Oddly enough this is what indies are upset about on the Switch now with patch sizes. Having an internal memory of just 32GB will pose a problem for them.
Fast forward to today and some indies now are upset with Sony for kind of dismissing them now at E3 and Jim Ryan saying they are no longer as important.
@Mr_Writer8518m ago "Lying on the Internet /cringe"
Jim Ryan, "And the fact that we elected, along with many other things such as Gran Turismo and PlayLink, not to give it its own spot on the stage this week, in no way means it is not important, or it is not there, or we don't worry about it. It was just good to talk about in 2013/2014. It is less relevant now. We have VR to talk about now, for example."
I never said they weren't important to Sony, I said not as important. "LESS RELEVANT". Do you know what less relevant today as compared to 2013/14 means?
Ita pretty obvious what Jim Ryan meant by that statement. Either you are not smart enough to understand it or just trolling, you choose.
He isnt saying that indies are not important or less important. In fact, he specifically says he is not saying they arent important in the statement you quoted. He is merely stating in regards to the messaging they were conveying at the E3 press conference (what they wanted to talk about), they opted not to give them a spot on stage because they are less relevant to the messaging of this E3 as opposed to the messaging (what they wanted to talk about) of the 2013/2014 E3 conferences. This is extremely evident by the fact that he mentions Gran Turismo in the same sense, and we all know Gran Turismo is important to Sony. But they didnt show it because it was not relevant to the message (what they wanted to talk about) of this conference.
Just because something is not relevant does not make it not important. If you had a presentation about the moon and a specific message you wanted to convey (just a random example), would you start talking about your kids? Probably not. And if asked why you didnt talk about your kids, your response would probably be "they werent relevant to my presentation". Does that mean your kids are not important to you just because you didnt find them relevant to your presentation? Think about it.
So I ask again, did you fail to properly comprehend the statement or did you just rush at a chance to troll something Sony related?
"Fast forward to today and some indies now are upset with Sony for kind of dismissing them now at E3 and Jim Ryan saying they are no longer as important."
Moldy pls stop.. Jim Ryan didnt say anything like that.. You dont need to make up things now..
Sony really has no obligation to show indies at their E3 conference. In fact, I think everything they showed this year, they either have some marketing deal with, or they are directly creating. I only know of a couple indie games that Sony is directly involved in right now for publishing, and I believe the most notable from Housemarque released before E3. Maybe I'm confusing dates though, and certainly don't know what all they're working on on this front.
Sony didn't snub them, and if they're upset, what did they expect? Did they just expect Sony to show off indies because the dev felt they had a place there? That's silly, as that concept can be applied to every game from indie to big AAA.
Ryan's comments didn't degrade indie games, nor did he say they weren't important. On top of that, Sony's policies on indies have not changed, and they are still as agreeable to most indies as they were at the start of the gen. If an indie dev wants more, and was upset about it, then they have very unrealistic expectations, as 99.9% of all the indies out there do not get that kind of attention.
Also, I haven't seen indie devs upset with Sony over Ryan's comments. If they were, then they should learn not to poke the bear, because Sony can be a good partner if you don't get on their bad side.
@moldybread He said less revelvant to show them on the E3 stage, because everyone knows now that indie games are important to Sony.
And "I never said they weren't important to Sony, I said not as important..
But they are, they just don't need to show them at E3.
The fact you failed to see the context and switch it to your own agenda is cringe worthy.
When the PS4 launched they had to show their commitment to indies, now everyone knows that indies are important to them they no longer need to show them.
Their attitude towards supporting indie developers bringing their games to the PS4 has no changed at all.
Grown men lying on the Internet to get attention /cringe
A. Another indie Dev could say the same thing easily about MS being supportive and Sony not. B. Never forget Indie is what it is today because of the spotlight MS put on them in the 360 era C. Both companies have tons of indies, they cant support them all
I would argue, indies is what it is today because of steam and before that, Sony policy during the ps1 era where smaller companies had opportunities to make games.
I think indies have always been around, and quite a few have gotten a lot of respect. It's just the term, "indie dev" wasn't really coined for mass discussion/marketing until last gen.
I can't deny that MS did have a good part to play in giving indie dev a great marketing channel that didn't require they find a publisher, but I would also give quite a bit of credit to Steam as well. Sony also had their own ventures which helped raise up the status of indie from "mobile crap" to something more worthwhile. Sony also had a disc based publishing avenue for indie games on the PS1. Most of it stayed in Japan under the Simple series, along with another name which I can't remember, and they had probably close to 200 "volumes" within those two lines. Some of the more popular ones ended up coming to the west as what was then referred to as mid-tier games. Self publishing is a relatively new concept in the console gaming market though, as it only became feasible with the advent of digital distribution. Although there were PC based self publishings long before that, although not quite as widespread as a properly published game.
Exactly, this is just dick stroking by a Sony fan article. It can be done the other way around just as easily.
Funny thing is that the fanboys just keep reassuring themselves this is why they won the console war. Idiots everywhere. Have you ever heard someone in real life say: I will get the PS4 over Xbox because of indie support? No you haven't, because it's not such a big deal. You might have heard it on the internet, but thats mostly fanboy talk and more stuff like this article.
Now lets ask Cuphead developer how supportive Sony was to them, same story.
Inb4 people say im an xbox fan or w/e. I own a ps4, not an xbox1, but that doesn't make me a blind sony fan who wants xbox to fail
@Vasto Haha the article is up half an hour ago and your comment was the first to mention the console. YOU are the only one talking about it by the looks of things lol.
Hmm, I see you getting cocky than ever. And you also are becoming disrespectful. Yup, I knew this would happen especially how Microsoft was advertising The Xbox One X and you guys gone completely crazy and speaking like cult. I know you are happy about it but it's seem you seem gone way too off and insulting everyone.
The I more I see your attitude. The more I think you are becoming like GreenGangsta who is immature psychotic Xbox fanboy. He used to know as Rookie Monster but completely lost his mind because console war did to him. Rookie used too much logical without discipline that made him snapped. When I saw him become like that, I can't ignore him and I need to report him all the time. So you better control your emotion. Otherwise, you will be just like GreenGangsta aka Rookie Monster.
They won because they have a history with consumers around the world who know they expect great exclusive games that make them popular in all territories. Guaranteed if MS started last gen like Sony did, their Xbox division would have vanished like Sega did. Sony on the other hand, were able to rebound well and stay successful and are back on top like the PS1 and PS2 era.
Only a fool still thinks MS ever had a chance to compete with Sony especially on a worldwide scale.
"First party isn't why they won"
Oh please, a console's exclusive line up doesn't have to be the only reason for buying the system but it sure as is BIG contributing factor in choosing what system you want. People would rather play or have the option to play multiplatform games AND exclusives than to just be limited to multiplatform games on another system.
Comments like that are exactly why people like you are out of the loop when it comes to understanding industry trends.
PSOne was the newcomer to the industry. It bested the veterans.
Look at case studies: PS2 was the weakest of the lot. Still crushed the competition. Power is not a large determining factor.
The PS3 went on to outsell the Xbox 360, despite being more expensive and arriving a year later. Cost was not the determining factor. You're probably thinking the Blu-ray drive was the determining factor. If that is the case, the One S should be dominating with its support of Ultra HD.
The PS4 and Xbox One both use X86 architecture with the added step of eSRAM for the Xbox One. Ease of development is a non issue, especially when anything coming from the CELL architecture is a breath of fresh air. And considering Xbox One games run similarly to their PS4 counterparts, just scaled down for its specs, I'd say developing for either gives good results on both platforms.... so no, ease of development isn't a factor here.
It's games. No matter how much you want to believe Sony is only trouncing the competition due to superficial advantages, it's not. Price is the only point that has any basis in reality. It's ultimately, and **always has been**, games and, at this point, the brand itself. People are sometimes all talk. I can't speak for them; I see a game that looks great, I buy it. For some, it's about options. For me, those quirky games I love and get excited about? I get them. Persona 5, Gravity Rush 2, Ori, Axiom Verge, you name it. And whether they sell a lot or not isn't as relevant as budget versus returns. If GTA V sold 8 million copies across all platforms knowing it costs 500 million to make, that's a commercial failure. If a one man indie game sells 500 thousand, that's well beyond a commercial success.
Games are what matter. Why? Because that's what differentiates the consoles on the consumer level. With One X, you can get 4k/60fps Call of Duty. With PS4 Pro, you can get Call of Duty AND Spider-Man. Basically, you'll be missing far more games by not owning a PlayStation than not owning an Xbox. Nintendo generally does well every other generation.
But okay, let's see how much sales for PS4 slow down because it loses its power advantage. Can't wait to see who makes more sense in the long run.
a. It's only selling 'a few millions' because most of the exclusives are single player, I can buy it and all of my friends can borrow it after I'm finished, in fact, that's what happened with the majority of PS4, each person in my group of friends bought DIFFERENT games and then lend it to each other when we're finished, that's why 'that particular head' on the other camp 'concerned about the future of SP games' because most occasion one group of friends only buy one copy.
b. it's not that the majority don't buy exclusives, it's that EVERYONE BUY A DIFFERENT SET OF EXCLUSIVES, I'm sure if Sony make a poll on how many people play UC4 or Bloodborne or Horizon, the count will be many times the amount of copies sold.
so yeah, idiot, exclusives 'only sold' around 3-10 millions doesn't mean the other 50+ millions only buy multiplatforms, all of them buy exclusives, just most likely only one for each group of friends, not to mention rent and buying second hands. we all know that's the reason 'that someone' concerned about the future of SP games and focused on GaaS, it's hard to make each friend bought a different copy if it's SP games. corporate d*ck
Power has nothing to do i with it that was just a bonus. Seriously every previous gen has shown that the most powerful console doesn't matter so much so that the most powerful console of a gen has never won the gen. You were right about the price and ease of development part of your comment though those def did play a part as well as the pedigree of Sony and their first party studios and exclusives
Bragging rights until the next reason why we have a new victor shifts those bragging rights to a different group.
For the most part, the console war is manufactured by the media and the fan boys, while companies use it as a marketing tool to promote their console in the new reality of social media being more effective than indirect marketing through more traditional channels.
That's they the console wars are no where near as civil as they used to be, because the internet has given everyone a voice, and for some reason, many people feel they need to express that voice, despite that voice probably making up less than 10% of the entire gaming populace.....and that 10% is being very generous.
The real "war" between the companies, is nothing more than regular competion. They'll each compete in the way they see fit, and apply their policies as they deem necessary.
I have no doubt Sony would've still won the console war this gen, but let's be real here, the reason they're so far ahead isn't all down to what PS has to offer but also due to the fact MS screwed up the Xbox One launch so badly and made a huge chunk of their user base jump ship, I doubt indies have anything to do with anything in this regard
@ForeverTheGoat PS3 made a huge comeback thank to their exclusive and their discipline. I can't say the same thing about Xbox One especially how MS give up on competition.
I avoid the dumb console wars by playing on PC, waiting most of the generation, then getting all of the hardware and interesting exclusives on the cheap.
Whats sad is. This article didn't even quote everything they said. Nor did they even include the other developers who also had issues with sonys recent comment. This Was some half-ass attempt to show that sony still care for indie. Why don't you submit the real article instead of this weak ass attempt.
Don't think that was the reason. Especially with M$ having a higher price console and a terrible reveal. Rime developers had a hard time with Sony as well. So it goes both ways really. Still the facts remain, there are 100's of Indies on both game consoles. Lots of them that are on sales this week. So just because one developer didn't get the attention then wanted, doesn't mean the other 100's didn't as well. Microsoft's Indie program is pretty easy to get into and allow developers to publish their own games. Sure there were a bunch of limitation when Indies were going to the XBox 360, but thankfully Microsoft changed a bunch of policies now and things are for the better.
@butchertroll Wipeout is checkerboard 4K and dynamic native 4K. I read the whole article you (or was it someone else) linked me. It's not a locked native 4K and I'll bet the 60fps isn't locked either. I believe DF did an article about it.
YOU LIAR! Wipeout is 4k native and locked 60fps. There is no such a thing as "dynamic native". LOL
"With motion blur enabled, the Omega Collection defaults to a 2160p checkerboard presentation. However, turn off the effect and WipEout moves to a full, native 4K output."
@butchertroll You sad troll. What's that got to do with Sony or Microsoft's Indie program? Keep having your meltdowns though. I get a good laugh from it.
Jim Ryan didn't said that in full sense of word. You should read what he said about that. Maybe you'll figure it out. He talked about showcasing at conferences, not about less support for indies.
I'm well aware it was taken out of context, I was making fun of people & sites who used his quote out of context to claim PlayStation doesn't care about indies anymore.
Probably one of the reasons why Sony won the console war this generation
"B-b-but Jim Ryan said indies aren't relevant"