Xbox One X: New Console, Confused True 4K Message

Xbox One X is being called the "true 4K" machine from Microsoft. But the message around the console at E3 2017 was confusing on a third party front.

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ToastyMcNibbles2111d ago

That became apparent to me when the presenter said "and what we mean by true 4k is ultra hd, hdr, wide color gamut, dolby sound". True 4k for microsoft is a combination of effects not literally native 4k on every game.

cleft52111d ago

I would be more impressed with Microsoft True 4k if they showed me some major, graphically intense, 3rd party games running in Native 4k at 60fps without dancing around the issues. Instead, they show off indie games that look like they could run on 5 years old PCs and boast that those are True 4k. Of course those games are True 4k.

LexHazard792111d ago

wait was Xbox One X a 4K/60 console?

I mean I heard the fanboys hollering bout 4K/60..but not really MS aside from Forza 7.

343_Guilty_Spark2111d ago

Did you watch Anthem or Metro or ACO?

Bigpappy2111d ago

Dev kits we're just sent out and you expect them to have a boatload of games with the highest spec's.

Please try to be realistic here. What they have in 3rd party 4K support is actually very impressive.

Skull5212111d ago

I was skeptical because I have a 5.5 TFLOP GPU and I can't get stable frame rates for 4K at all. Now I'm a true believer in what the XBOX can really do.

2111d ago
gamer78042111d ago

4K has nothing to do with framerate just fyi. Some games jjust like now will run at 30, some at 60. Some will be Indie some will be AAA like Forza 7. Not really an issue, I find games like Tombraider and Uncharted to feel more cinematic at 30, since its closer to movie 23.976 fps.

freshslicepizza2111d ago (Edited 2111d ago )

If games produced by Microsoft (Forza, Sea of Thieves, State of Decay, Crackdown 3) don't offer native 4K then you guys have an argument because those are the only games they have full control of. The message was clear from day one but others try and purposely confuse the messaging for their own gratification. They also announced previous titles like Gears 4 will be native 4k on Xbox One X.

The system has the power but its up to third party to use it. The same thing on the Pro, Sony is not telling developers they have to use checkerboard rendering but unlike ther Pro Microsoft has managed to go a few steps above and beyond. One thing is any game with native 4K will automatically be supersampled on 1080p monitors. This is done on the hardware level. Sony on the other hand does not evenhave it featured on some of their own in house titles like MLB The Show and removing it from The Last of Us Remastered. Microsoft has much more knowledge in all of this and part of it is because they also have PC gaming experience.

Mark Cerny was wrong about 8 teraflops to do 4K, it is more than just teraflops and the desig and engineering that went into this machine should be applauded.

jrshankill2110d ago

Someone didn't hang around for Anthem

rainslacker2110d ago


But doesn't it only take a few hours or a day or two to get a game up to 4K with UWP or DX12 baked in? Thought this whole scaling thing was supposed to make it all seamless.

Anyhow, yes, I expect that if MS is going to go on about 4K with most of the games they showed, and be dodgy about what exactly 4K is while trying to imply that everythng they show is the kind of 4K that everyone is talking about in context for the past year, that those games be ready to show in such a manner.

Otherwise, MS is still just marketing on promises, and not actual delivering yet on what they claim is possible.

Personally, I'm OK with not every game being 4K/60 Ultra settings with all the bells and whistles, but that's what we've been hearing would be possible for over a year now. While MS itself has said it's up to the developer, it's not like the fan boys haven't been going on and on about it, only to now say, "hey guys, keep your expectations in check....MS never said this would be super awesome true 4K with every game". And yes, I can pull specific examples from the most notorious of the Xbox fan boys which show them taking both approaches.

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joab7772111d ago

It's super confusing because of the fact that it's an upgrade, but had hints of being a next gen reveal with compatibility. It is targeted towards what remains a niche 4k market, with limited 1st party software. It doesn't want to alienate those who have stuck by them, but it's also not much more than the Pro in regards to its utility.

dcbronco2111d ago

Completely wrong. Check around n4g there are several articles that list a pretty large selection of games that will receive a 4k patch at X launch. Halo 5, Fears, Forza Horizon. It's over thirty games with more coming. People just got dev kits as mentioned.

Pro uses tricks and upconversion. X might do that on some but also won't on many. I have yet to read ant article from anyone with the least bit of technical knowledge say the Pro is on the same level. There is a large gap between these machines.

2111d ago
akaFullMetal2111d ago


Wasn't anthem running on a pc? 🤔

GrubsterBeater2111d ago

Metro was for sure running on a PC, and I wouldn't be surprised if Anthem was as well, knowing how MS tricks people.

UnHoly_One2111d ago (Edited 2111d ago )

Right, because Sony has never demoed a game on anything but a Stock PlayStation.

Get real, buddy.

Rhythmattic2111d ago (Edited 2111d ago )

So what your saying is Sony showed games on Pro , so thats OK for MS to Use brute force PC's.....
Ok... Got it.

FyBy2111d ago

I dont agree. True 4K is only "Anti-Pro" marketing term. Nothing else. And Phil already calrified this many times. Hdr (which includes wide color gamut already (for example HDR10)) is already supported by Xbox One S, PS4, PS4 Pro. Dolby sound? You mean dolby atmos? Even Xbox 360 had dolby sound (Dolby digital, maybe DTS?). So if xbox x has dolby atmos, good. But its only definition of audio streams. Dolby atmos is for cinemas with 5.1, 7.1, 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 speaker configuration. Or you mean different dolby audio coding? It doesnt really mean, sound will be better. Years and years theres already Dolby TrueHd and DTS HD Master.

Lets be clear. Microsoft offers more games in native 4K resolution (it means internally rendered as full frame 4K, not interlaced (checkerboard) like some PS4 Pro games do) as a difference from other devices, thats all.

trainsgofast2110d ago
Gears of War 4 Was Running in 4K on XB1X Within 1 Day With Overhead Left Over For Improving Visuals

XanderZane2110d ago

Microsoft doesn't know what the 3rd party developers are going to do with the XBox One X hardware. I agree that with all the 3rd party games they showed at the E3, they should have had some developers on stage explaining if the game was going to be native 4K 30fps / 60fps and what features it would use. But they really didn't do this. I'm thinking that all will be told when the game is completed and ready to launch. We already know that not ALL games on the XBox One X will be native 4K, because the developers will take different approaches to make their games look incredible, but also run at a high FPS rate. I think developers should all have settings in their games to allow games to switch the game to native 4K and modify the textures, shading and other features in the game as they choose. At least have this for the XBox One X versions. Microsoft said all their 1st party games would be true native 4K. They never said anything about the FPS. Trolls are coming on here acting like every game would be 4K / 60fps, when that was never the case. This was nothing but fanboys moving goalposts so they could have something negative to say about the XBox One X when it releases.

rainslacker2110d ago

True, but they did know what they were showing at the conference, and if they implied the 3rd party games were true 4K, when they actually weren't, then people are going to criticize them.

This is where the message is confusing. MS didn't say with some of those games that it was dynamic 4K, they just said it's 4K. They weren't even using their own marketing terms, and as such, the message is gets confused, because even MS doesn't seem to have a single way to define it to keep it clear.

Not that MS is alone in this. Every company involved in 4K, from display makers, audio receiver makers, console makers, BR/UHD players, etc, all seem to have a very loose definition of the 4K format, and seem very liberal with throwing 4K everywhere to make it look more impressive for the uninformed. When I brought my first 4K TV, it was just a happy accident I got one with HDR. Brought a floor model, and they dropped when taking it off the shelf, so got an upgrade for the same price. But all these formats and definitions are just confusing, sometimes even when you understand what all the terms mean.

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Obscure_Observer2111d ago

Well, not every game will be native 4K on the X. But if the console run most of its games at native 4K, then it will be undoubtedly considered a true 4K machine.

Aenea2111d ago

"4k Ultra HD", the label that MS uses on the packaging can mean lots of things, not just native 4k.

And we have no clue yet how many games it can run at native 4k.

I've said it before but you should actually prefer it uses checkerboard rendering for a lot of games, it uses about half the amount of GPU time so there's still extra oompf left to do other things like better shadows, lighting, etc., etc.

BigWan782111d ago (Edited 2111d ago )


Checkerboard is taking devs 3+ weeks to implement, whereas trying for native can achieved within a week... for even complex games...

I say try to stick to trying to get to nagive 4K/30(60 if the game can achieve it) if that is the goal if it isnt, i say go 1440p/ultra/30-60

Allsystemgamer2111d ago

As the games get more demanding we'll see less and less native 4k games.

Running games 4 years old in 4k is already pretty demanding.

CobraKai2111d ago

The "4K Ultra HD" label could be there due to it being a 4K UHD Blu Ray player.

343_Guilty_Spark2111d ago (Edited 2111d ago )

We know it will have many more native 4k games than the Pro.

alb18992111d ago

Remember that is up to developers.

Rhythmattic2111d ago

And we know it will have many less "exclusive" games than the Pro.

Aenea2110d ago (Edited 2110d ago )


No, that label is on packaging for games. The Xbox website itself is perfectly clear about what it means:
"A game has a 2160p frame buffer output. That includes Native 4K, Checkerboarding, and Dynamic Resolution."

----------------------------- --

We know no such thing, there's a lot of hope that there will, that's all so far!

So far the only game we know of that it's native 4k is the new Forza. Everything else they've shown was running on PC's, a One S in the case of Sea of Thieves or was using checkerboard rendering. Ohh, and perhaps some of the "launch exclusive" Indies they showed are native 4k, tho even that isn't a given, but am sure they are...

----------------------------- --

Yes, it's up to the devs, we know that, that's a stupid defence for the simple fact that MS and it's fans have been hyping up this console as being "true 4k", native 4k all around. MS is listing games on their site that have gotten a '4k' patch, but what they mean is that these games are allowed by MS to carry this logo that says "4k Ultra HD" while that doesn't necessarily mean that it's native 4k. Which is something that Sony got scolded out for and changed their naming to "dynamic 4k" which many an Xbox fan made fun off because their precious Scorpio would be all native 4k! And that's not the case.

It's been stupid from MS to tout the device as the one and only true 4k console, and it's rather icky to say the games are 4k while they aren't native. Remember that Killzone crap back in the day? Well, MS is now doing the same thing but not with just one game...

rainslacker2110d ago


One or three weeks? OK, so what? A simple resolution bump to 4k is simply an ini setting in most engines. Checkerboarding does require some setup and testing. But once it's set up, Checkerboarding actually does allow a lot more room for optimization of the image quality than straight up 4K. Effects can be turned up as desired, or dialed back as needed, whereas in native 4K, anywhere up to 30% more power is lost to improve overall visual quality.

When it comes down to it, the actual image quality is more important, and when it comes to rendering, better images come by turning up the effects or improving the lighting and shading, and more optimization comes from given more room in the power department to work with.

If a dev can get to native 4K without issue, and has all the desired effects, that's great. But I think people will find that if they try too hard to get to 4K by not utilizing extra effects, those checkerboarding techniques will end up looking a lot better for the overall game.

Obscure_Observer2110d ago


"Indeed, but games that do checkerboard rendering or are using dynamic resolutions are still being labeled by MS as being "4k Ultra HD". Scummy to say the least, they are flat out lying."


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InTheZoneAC2111d ago (Edited 2111d ago )

nope, pre-reveal true 4k was everything has to be 100% 4k resolution, no checkerboard or anything of that nature and all games will run that res. Anything less isn't true 4k.

Allsystemgamer2111d ago

Like assassins creed origins not running at 4k.

xsta1ker2111d ago

just stop your over protective fanboy crap Microsoft never said every game would be 100% 4k
you made that up... your injecting your interpretation of what true 4k means on to somthing Microsoft
never said. even high end pc's can't make that claim 100%

i don't understand your rant or the reasoning behind it did Microsoft do something personal to you?
or are you upset that sony has lost the power edge @ the moment it's not that big of a deal
sony and Microsoft will do this back in forth thing for a long time.

and if you have proof of your claims please post them to back up your argument.

xsta1ker2111d ago Show
Aenea2110d ago

Indeed, but games that do checkerboard rendering or are using dynamic resolutions are still being labeled by MS as being "4k Ultra HD". Scummy to say the least, they are flat out lying.

AC: Origins was running in 1800p checkerboard, Anthem 2160p checkerboard, Sea of Thieves doesn't have One X support yet and they aren't sure what it will entail (so much for "it's so easy to add support and go native 4k!"), many other demos were actually running on PC's...

rainslacker2110d ago

Well...technically, if it outputs from the frame buffer at 4K, it's native 4K. Same as with Sony's checkerboarding. MS is using this technicality to promote "true 4K". I don't think MS itself was ever that dubious in this manner about what it meant, but the fans certainly weren't accepting that MS version of "true 4K" is exactly the same as what it is on Sony's know, that fake chinese upscaling.

But, in context to what is discussed on forums about what it means, at least for the past year or so, there is certainly a lot of flip flopping where a bunch of people who argued with me about the techicalities of it all are back peddling to say that technically it isn't a lie, and that it's not up to the devs as opposed to implying that almost every game is going to be "native 4K".

MS has their own fault here in that they didn't really try hard enough to curb expectations, but I imagine that was on purpose. They could have done this and the fan boys still would have gone on about it religiously. I seem to recall that's what happened with DX12's release as well.

rainslacker2110d ago (Edited 2110d ago )

I believe the word your looking for is uncompromised

That's the word MS used.

While they did say it's up to the developer, they sure have been very loose with the usage of the 4K terminology.

Oh well, at least the Xbox fan boys are bringing their expectations back in check with what everyone has been telling them would be the case for the past year.

Obscure_Observer2110d ago


"MS has their own fault here in that they didn't really try hard enough to curb expectations, but I imagine that was on purpose."

Oh please. What about Sony? You are just salty because your Pro has a poor support even from Sony first party studios and you have the nerve to blame MS for not curb Xbox fans expectations? Sony market the PS4 Pro as 4K machine as well and underliver on all fronts!

Gears 4 native 4K/30fps vs Uncharted 4 1440p/30fp
Forza 7 native 4K/60fps vs Gran Turismo 1800p targeting 60fps dropping to 40´s (So far Polyphony can´t even maintain locked 60fps at 1080p mode)

Mark Cerny couldn´t achieve native 4K and locked 60fps for Knack on a console of HIS DESIGN!

What about Naughty Dog? They did a LAME and LAZY job with their titles on Pro! Stripping out features like supersample without explanation, their TLOU port was actually running WORST than the base PS4 version on ALL resolutions on the Pro!

I didn´t heard any of you calling all of this for what it is:


Hard cold facts that you and you people conveniently choose to forget when suits your agenda.

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Elda2111d ago

You're right not every game will be native 4k if you look at Tom's guide they said some games will use the same technique as the Pro.

Razzer2111d ago

The definition of "true 4k" is changing constantly it seems.

xsta1ker2111d ago

it's not changing constantly it's your interpretation of true 4k thats clowding your mind.

Aenea2110d ago


Then what is your definition of "true 4k"?

Since apparently for MS it means quite a few other things than just native 4k...

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InTheZoneAC2111d ago

xbx1x with the power of the cloud brings you...Assassin's Creed Origins!

Elda2111d ago (Edited 2111d ago )

Just went to Toms guide for these XBOX terms...True or Ultra 4K is native 4k to Dynamic(checkerboard) 4k.XBOX enhaced are older games that uses XBOX special enhancers to make their older games look better.I don't know why they included the Dynamic 4k in the True 4k when it's not. That means some games will not be native 4k.

4logpc2111d ago

Can you show me a link? Id liek to read that

XMarkstheSpot2111d ago (Edited 2111d ago )

From link next to 4k UHD logo

"A game has a 2160p frame buffer output. That includes Native 4K, Checkerboarding, and Dynamic Resolution."

XB1X Enhanced meaning
"A developer has done special work to take advantage of Xbox One X’s 6 teraflops of power. Specific enhanced features will vary by game."

So things like better shaders, IQ, etc

4logpc2111d ago

Like I said it in the piece, they really should of presented it just like that.

XanderZane2110d ago

4K UHD is not true 4K if their definitely is "A game has a 2160p frame buffer output. That includes Native 4K, Checkerboarding, and Dynamic Resolution."

True 4K is Native 4K period. Has nothing to do with FPS or HDR.

xsta1ker2111d ago

stop comparing 4k and dynamic 4k makes no deference the point everyone needs to know
whatever resolution whatever frame rate x1x will hands down blow the ps4 pro out of the water

you can't compare the 2 it's just the facts so stop all your crying go play your games and have fun.

classic192111d ago

Didnt you think that spiderman game look pretty good though.. Idk if xbx will blow that game out the water. Ms games may looking better but it wont look miles better.

Aenea2110d ago

Alright, then we should stop comparing the X1 to the PS4 as well since the PS4 is blowing the X1 out of the water!

The power difference between Pro and One X for 4k output is the same as PS4 and X1 for 1080p output...

rainslacker2110d ago

"I don't know why they included the Dynamic 4K in the True 4K"

Because technically, checkerboarding is true 4K. If something is output from the frame buffer at 4K, it's considered native. Even if it's upscaled through traditional upscale methods, it would be native 4K. That's how native resolution is determined in a rendering solution.

Been saying this for over a year, but many didn't agree with me. Now some are using it as their argument. Funny how things turn out.

Now, contextually, checkerboarding isn't what many around here consider to be native 4K, and that is why the definition is easily confused. I believe MS was honest by not saying every game would be native in the way many thing about it, but I do believe they were being a bit shady on how they use the term for marketing purposes to imply that it would be native 4K in the contextual sense, while it's only native 4K in the technical sense.

Elda2110d ago

So why are folks saying the Pro is not true 4k & you're saying it is.

rainslacker2110d ago

Because there's a gulf between the contextual meaning used in forum discussion, and the technical term which is used to define what is native resolution.

Technical definition is the native resolution is what the resolution is when output from the frame buffer to the display controller. Typical upscalling happens once it reaches this process, usually in route to the display controller.

Contextual definition is that 4K is that every pixel is rendered one by one then output in such a manner with no things like checkerboarding or other fancy things that increase the pixel count without actually rendering each pixel.

Generally speaking, the contextual is usually good enough to go by for discussion, because if everyone understands what is being talked about(pixel by pixel is native), it does make it much easier than having to qualify everything. Some people take it too far though and act like the checkerboarding technique is some how subpar and significantly worse than the pixel by pixel method.

Brave_Losers_Unite2111d ago

4k 60 fps machine cant even do 4k

trainsgofast2111d ago

Path of Exile Dev Got The Game Running on Xbox One X in 4K/60FPS Two Hours After Receiving Dev Kit
Forza 7 4k/60

I just did.

Brave_Losers_Unite2111d ago

You just did what exactly? Lol

trainsgofast2110d ago (Edited 2110d ago )

So let me get this right now MS has to make developers run there game at 4K right?
All of MS AAA games run at native 4K 30/60fps and use 4k textures. None for Sony.
Games By engines.
Forza tech engine native 4K 30/60FPS
Frostbite engine Checkerboarding/Dynamic Resolution.
Unreal 4 native 4K 30/60fps
Crytech native 4k 30/60fps
Assassin's creed unity engine Checkerboarding/ Dynamic Resolution.
Sonwdrop Native 4k 30/60fps Dynamic Resolution.

PS4 Pro AAA games that are native 4K with 4k textures 0

PS 4 Pro games Checkerboards up to 1600p/1800p then up scale to 4k
Xb1X Checkerboards up to 2160p 4K. True 4k frame buffer.

UnHoly_One2111d ago (Edited 2111d ago )

Where is this 4k60 crap coming from?? Nobody but a couple random idiot fanboys ever thought it was going to do 4k60 on every game.

I guess this is the new pathetic Sony defense.

When you don't have anything real to criticize, you just make up a false claim and then criticize that?

It's an inventive strategy, I'll give you that.

Plus it's funny that you're making fun of the opposition for only being a huge amount better, instead of a ridiculously huge amount better. :D

I bet the Cavs are trolling the Warriors hard right now. "What happened guys? You only beat us 4 games to 1, I thought you could sweep us? What's the problem?"

That's you guys right now.

Mr-Dude2110d ago (Edited 2110d ago )

Not only here, but on reddit, Gaf, IGN, Gamespot etc, a lot of Xfans spouted and boasted about this. That the Scorpio ( now Xbox One X) would be native 4k 60 FPS. Many PC users, and PSfans told them that the CPU was still a bottleneck and that there would be actually few 3rd party games who fully used that "TFlops". First party games of course is a different story.
MS themselfs said "true native 4K" the rest is up to the dev.

But like most times, Xfans pointed fingers and laughed, blamed Sony for Destiny 2 (-_-) and Sony fans are rubbing it in right now. A lot of people told it from the start, including myself

You need games, then power (and a better CPU)

UnHoly_One2110d ago (Edited 2110d ago )

Ok, so a bunch of fanboys said something, no surprise there.

But now all the fanboys from the other side are acting like Microsoft themselves said it, and everyone seems to believe them.

It's ridiculous.

I seem to remember quite a few wild claims about how powerful the PS4 Pro was going to be, hell, even the regular PS4.

I never saw anyone attributing that to Sony or having this kind of backlash about it.

The console isn't even out yet and so far it appears to be EXACTLY what MS claimed it would be, but all these nut jobs have convinced themselves that MS lied about everything.

These people make it really hard to like Sony sometimes.

There is a reason I keep my PS4 in the closed part of my entertainment center. I don't want people to see it and associate me with this kind of behavior.

rainslacker2110d ago

Panello who said uncompromised 4K perhaps? Back at the reveal. The same thing many Xbox fan boys have doubled down on to say why it's so awesome. Phil only said it was up to the developer.

MS also just used the general 4K term at E3. Their own usage of the term is all over the place, so it's "confused", because we don't know what MS is referring to when they use the term. Obviously it's not what everyone thought it would be though.

OMGitzThatGuy2111d ago

"4k 60 fps machine" It obviously can. Not Microsoft's fault for 3rd party devs developing games without a target resolution and not optimizing and just going with a dynamic resolution.