Sony explains why it's rejecting the core philosophy behind Microsoft's next Xbox, 'Project Scorpio'

Sony PlayStation execs Shawn Layden and Jim Ryan sat down with Business Insider to discuss the end of console generations and Microsoft's next Xbox.

[ElementX]

A whole article with nothing to say

[Death]

I didn't really understand the point of the article. I read it a couple times to see if it was sarcasm. Jim Ryan said Sony doesn't believe in changing hardware generations like Microsoft by releasing mid-gen upgrades as powerful as Scorpio which plays all Xbox One games and used all Xbox One accessories so they released the Pro which is much more powerful than PS4 a year sooner instead. I can't tell if he's being a hypocrite or just really misinformed. Both companies are clearly doing the same thing by releasing mid-gen consoles, Sony just did it earlier with less of a performance increase. If anything Microsoft is trying yo extend our game libraries lifecycle while Sony wants to end them with each hardware generation.

[donthate]

What is really going on is that Sony cheapened out with PS4 Pro (less hardware, cheap design, and no UHD 4k Blu-Ray drive) trying to ride on their success, and got caught with their pants down. So now the excuse is, we don't believe in what MS is doing, but we, Sony, believe in PS4 Pro.

[Godmars290]

"while Sony wants to end them with each hardware generation."

Was wondering why you were getting so many disagrees.

This is something MS has adopted, is retrying, this gen, versus three generations of out of the box BC on Playstation consoles. Something that only ended because the PS3 crashed if not burned as many critics and fans alike insisted BC wasn't needed.

Hell, the whole nature of simple BC changed because Gamestop, downloading as an option, and IP holders wanting money.

[Death]

@Godmars,

Which 3 gens of Playstations had native b/c?

Gen 1 is the original Playstation which was the first and not b/c.
Gen 2 is the Playstation 2 which did indeed play PS1 games.
Gen 3 is the Playstation 3 and b/c lasted less than a year before the Emotion Engine was removed and replaced by software emulation. Software emulation was removed a couple months later when the 40 gig released and they started to phase the 80 gig out.
Gen 4 is the Playstation 4 and not b/c.

Your 3 generations is actually 1 generation and a year. I don't think you are trying to be misleading with your statement, you are clearly remembering things how you want to and not as they were.

[fr0sty]

There's a difference between releasing a mid-gen upgrade and releasing an end-of-gen upgrade that is still bound by the technical limitations of the previous generation before it.

[dmetripaulpavlin]

I promise that this isn't a mid generation thing, this is the new console cycle. They are turning their console into a closed PC and I am okay with that, I love it.

[OB1Biker]

'The notion of the game console "generation" hasn't really changed, says Layden, it's just that "tech cycles are getting shorter."'
It's one more testimony of Sony supporting traditional console generations as opposed to Ms supposedly blurring the line between generations as they put it.

[donthate]

Why would anyone want console generations?

It marks the lack of compatibility for consumers and huge cost for developers to start over with new design. There is no benefit that is going to outweigh the cost to consumers or developers. I don't even think the console maker benefits from it.

[meka2611]

Yea that's not a good argument there. Tech cycles will always get shorter, been happening with pc's for awhile, although pc's are starting to hit a slight wall now. But to say you want to wait seven to eight years for a new console is dumb, the tech is moving too fast for consoles to stay up to date. I actually was hoping microsoft does a modular console, I think that would be awesome, but that's just me.

[BlackTar187]

a modular console is a PC lol

[fathertime4464]

Ok ob1biker. If it's a testimony to Sony supporting the traditional cycle, what the hell is the pro representative of?

[OB1Biker]

@father'
It's in the quote and also in my previous comment. The Pro is a 'tech' upgrade to keep up with 4K TV, 4k gaming. As opposed to a new gen console that keeps up with a new generation of games made for it and that older consoles can't run.

[TheCommentator]

Ob1, you say, "...supporting traditional console generations..." like it's a good thing. Are you serious?

Your defense of Sony for making a console to cater to 4K when it doesn't do native 4K or support UHD is golden! 😆

Say you like Sony's games all you want. Hell, say MS doesn't have any if it makes you feel better. But lying to yourself about abandoning your software library being better simply because, "it's traditional" is just mind boggling. There's no way in hell it's better than keeping your library of games you paid for as you invest in new hardware.

Also, by your definition, Scorpio is just a tech upgrade to keep up with 4K: Native 4K, UHD, 4K Streaming, 4K/60 video capture, and yet it still plays XB1 games with enhancements to users of 1080p tvs. PS Pro more is more of a cash grab than a tech upgrade for 4K by comparison.

One more thing: I remember when Nintendo wanted to stay traditional by opting for cartridges on N64. They were stubborn and thought, "people will still buy it because we're Nintendo". Same thing is going to happen here if people realize that their library of games don't go with them on Sony's platforms. Breaking tradition is what got Sony into the industry, and breaking traditions is the only place innovation comes from.

[OB1Biker]

@TheCommentator
'abandoning your software library being better simply because, "it's traditional"
Wth are you talking about?
A new gen doesn't necessarily mean no BC. On the opposite its very likely next gen will have BC.
And yes the Scorpio is a tech upgrade, not a new gen

[TheCommentator]

Look, these are your quotes:

- Tech cycles are getting shorter... One more testamony of Sony supporting traditional console generations.
(Meanwhile, Sony releases the Pro which breaks console traditions in the most fundamental sense already.)
- MS (is) supposedly blurring the line between generations.
(What exactly is the difference between Sony and MS' design philosiphy then?)

I already pointed out that Pro is not designed to cater to 4K while Scorpio is, but tell me, how is MS blurring the lines between console generations if Sony is not? Do you think that when Scorpio is replaced that MS will still support it and the Scorpio 2, while Sony will just abandon PS4 and make PS5 only games? Still pretty shitty, considering Sony pretty much won't ever do BC because people don't want it then, huh?

MS' slogan: No one gets left behind.
Sony's Slogan: We got yo' money, bitchez!

[OB1Biker]

@TheCommentator
'MS' slogan: No one gets left behind.
Sony's Slogan: We got yo' money, bitchez!'

Haha don't get me into your crappy fanboy wars pls ;)

It's in the companies official approach an messaging.
Sony believes in traditional console GENERATION (don't put the emphasis on tradition just because it suits you.

Maybe things are clearer by saying games using the new potential and can't be played on previous model? That what new gen is.
Ms said many time they don't want new generation any more and also their moto 'gaming beyond generation'

[Inzo]

Yip, almost like when Spencer is interviewed or when he tweets.

[Godmars290]

@Death:
Okay, two gens of BC. Point was that it was day-one out of the box versus a trickle a year or two after release. BC is most effective when present day one.

[SaveFerris]

With console generations becoming shorter, Sony absolutely needs to ensure that the PS5 is fully backwards compatible with PS4 and that should include the peripherals as well as the games. If they ignore this, then I can foresee a significant portion of their current install base switching to Xbox.

[Eonjay]

That doesn't make sense because their current base won't be able to play their games on Xbox either. And 1.5% of Xbox users taking advantage of BC doesn't seem entirely promising for Microsoft either. That being said, with the huge catalog of exclusives for PS4, one can only hope they are also playable on PS5. Then again from a business perspective this keeps the value of the PS4 higher than the Xbox One. I see the PS4 hitting 100 million for sure now.

[4Sh0w]

Eonjay,
"And 1.5% of Xbox users taking advantage of BC doesn't seem entirely promising for Microsoft either."

It's not 1.5% OF USERS, it's 1.5% OF 1.65 BILLION TOTAL MINUTES OF Xbox usage :

"In the end, only about 1.5 percent of the more than 1.65 billion minutes of Xbox One usage time we tracked was spent on the 300+ backward-compatible Xbox 360 games, in aggregate. That translates to an average of just 23.9 minutes per sampled active Xbox One user spent on Xbox 360 games out of 1,526 average minutes of Xbox One usage during the sampling period."
https://arstechnica.com/gam...

-I keep hearing ps guys mis-stating this analysis over and over again trying to make it bad when in fact it actually goes against the ps fanboy narrative that Xbox has no games so that's why Xbox fans support BC. In fact what the analysis highlights is that over a 5 month period EACH INDIVIDUAL XBOX GAMER AVERAGES ALMOST 25 MINUTES OF GAMEPLAY TIME WITH A LAST GEN GAME.=

That is great, because the same analysis shows Xbox gamers are spending the lions share of their time playing NEW Xbox games daily, then every once in a while they say cool I havent played Alan Wake in years, let me go rock that guitar scene again.....that nakes perfect sense, that likely what Microsoft expected; which is exactly how I use it and these statistics that's WHY it's a very nice feature to have. bu, bu, but just let Sony tell YOU, 'meh you don't *really want it, EA Access isnt for you either, blah, blah, blah, etc= yeah but you really do want ps now, $$$cha-ching.

[SaveFerris]

Well. I admit to being wrong on the 'significant portion' remark, though for some gamers, switching from PS to Xbox and vice versa, hasn't been too difficult. A lot of PS2 gamers switched to the 360, and the following gen, maybe quite a few sold it on and purchased a PS4 instead. I agree with the other points you make.

[Jakens]

Edit: Wrong post

[Kizwiz6]

"1.5% of Xbox users taking advantage of BC"
Yes, but that's in the present - which is almost 4 years after the release of XO -
when they've finally got a library enough to support their own games. Let's not act like a console's launch line-up is always satisfying enough for new customers. Backwards compatability is always a good thing.

[CrimzonRazor]

the 1.5% figure has more holes in it then a cheese grater, you cant figure data the way the tried to and has already been called out on it. Heck even this site has had articles that poked holes in how they came up with their numbers. Dont believe everything you read

[rainslacker]

Historically, console generations have only been 4-6 years. Last gen was out of the ordinary in terms of length. This gen will probably be 4-7 years even with the mid-gen upgrades. I don't really see how the generations are getting shorter.

I think that Sony should make the PS5 and onward backwards compatible just so we can put an end to this constant console war tripe. But if new hardware came out that was significantly better than x86, I'd be willing to give that up for the opportunity to achieve more through the games themselves. That'll likely take a while, nor not happen in my lifetime though, at least not to the point that it becomes reasonable for the mass market console industry.

However, I don't see a significant portion of people switching to XBox if Sony doesn't include BC, doesn't support ongoing peripherals, and I don't see why games are an issue for Sony, as they have always had high output there. There is no data right now that suggests anything MS is doing is enticing people away from PS in droves. The promise of BC peripheral support I doubt most people care about, and BC isn't really something that drives people to buy consoles.....it's just a nice feature to have that adds value to the system.

[donthate]

I don't see how it is getting shorter either. If anything, it is getting longer, unless Sony considers PS4 Pro a new generation, but they already said in the past that PS4 Pro is mid-gen. It seems Sony is confused.

Obviously this year is the 4th, and Sony isn't releasing a new console, so it can't be 4-years. My guess is, Sony will release a new console in the 6-8th year i.e. 2019 and beyond.

Also, why would you want PS5 to be forwards compatible, but not PS4? That would be disaster, and despite Sony indicating compatibility is not something they really care about, I think they will have a poor attempt at one, just like boost mode on PS4 Pro.That will likely be enough to appease the masses.

It is hard to say what will drive consumers to Xbox, and it might not be MS strategy to go after Sony's consumers. It seems to me they are looking at the broader market, but we just have to wait until E3 to find out. MS is holding everything tight to their chest until E3.

[rainslacker]

I think what Sony is talking about here is a different mentality on how they handle generations compared to what MS stated they intend....which is doing away with the traditional console cycle. While some aspects of MS "plans" are still a bit vague beyond the Scorpio, and Scorpio isn't considered a new gen in a traditional or even the non-traditional sense, I think Sony is simply saying they still want to have a defined console generation which will be a clean break from the prior gen...like we've become accustomed to.

I don't know which paradigm would be better, because there so far isn't any way to judge the benefits or feasibility of MS own plans based on what they said, or what they've done so far. There are some aspects of MS plan which I do like....like peripherals which don't become obsolete, and the idea of forward compatibility being an ongoing thing, although I feel that can potentially bring it's own drawbacks which I've discussed elsewhere.

I'm not saying I believe the PS5 should be forward compatible, but would say that if they keep the a similar hardware set, then offering BC would be expected, maybe with updates for the PS5 for cross gen purposes for games that release within that early window. Obviously, depending on the game itself, and how it's designed, moving the mid-gen principal to a single release of cross generational releases to be handled better than the paradigm of simply having two separate releases, and potentially even just offering up some updates to some older games to capitalize on the typical after launch drought, and could help make the transition better. But eventually, I'd say that a clean break does need to be made, and any compliance mandate should be removed with the start of a new gen, and leave it up to the devs/pubs.

I do agree one can not say for sure what will drive consumers to one product or another, and next gen we could see a major shift back to MS, or potentially Nintendo. Lots of variables, and it's rarely so black and white as many make it seem in forums.

[Vipre77]

I agree. I don't see generations getting shorter either. PS1 was in the market for around 10+ years (1994-2005). PS2 was around 12+ years (2000-2013). PS3 was around 10+ years (2006-2017). PS4 launched in 2013, and the historical pattern we can see from the dates above, has been to launch a next gen system 6 years after the launch of the prior gen (PS4 was an anomaly at 7 years after launch of PS3). That would put Sony on track for PS5 in 2019. Seems about right considering Sony hasn't even hinted at PS5 anytime soon. If it is coming in 2019, then that would likely mean 3 more E3's between today and launch. We might not get any talk or teasers about it this year. They just launched PS4 Pro last year, so they're gonna want to ride that for at least another year before talking about the next big thing. I'd expect teasers next year with full reveal at 2019 E3 along with an "Available in November for $500" tag on it. As usual, there has been some speculation about maybe being time for a new portable. Sony has said publicly that a new portable is not really on their radar, but they've also been asking game journos, "Is that something you want to see?" I think the lack of success with Vita and overwhelming success with PS4 has left them gun shy on the portable biz. Sony corporation-wide has had a lot of fat to trim the last several years and I think the portable market will be hard to justify for them after what they did to/with this Vita. They need to do what they can to keep PlayStation biz profitable.

I think the only reason we got a mid-gen hardware bump this time is because the cadence of console generations was getting out of step with major tech upgrades in the PC and television markets with the recent adoption of affordable 4K resolutions and they needed a "reset." 4 years ago, these things were outside the price range for most gamers, but since then prices have crashed to right around where decent 1080P hardware was at the time PS4 launched. Also, affordable VR tech with generally acceptable performance and visual fidelity came at a point in the generation that was too late to support adequately at launch, but too early to wait several years for the next generation. This is tech they couldn't afford to wait to support.

That said, I do think MS has made some significant advances toward blurring the lines on console generations going forward that Sony hasn't matched. MS's has added their cross-buy functionality for games on Xbox and Windows PC and they've added some other PC functionality to Xbox, too. It really is finally starting to look like their vision from many years ago of having a set-top box PC for your TV. I expect MS will continue to blur that line until it's eventually gone and Xbox is literally just a Windows PC for your TV.

MS has talked about shifting the hardware/software generations to be more Apple iOS device-like. Hardware and the OS gets refreshed each generation, but software keeps working. Software is often forward compatible unless it relies on a new piece of hardware, and is almost always backward compatible. And they usually go for a couple generations before support for older apps is eventually abandoned. This is a great way to treat customers and developers alike. Sony hasn't explicitly said anything similar, though they have mentioned the possibility of backward compatibility being easier to implement in the future the more PC-like the hardware becomes. And maybe that's enough for them and their customers. Too soon to tell, I think.

[bluefox755]

I doubt it. As we've learned recently, BC isn't nearly as popular as Xbox fans would have you believe, and even if it were, it will always be a distant secondary concern behind new games, an area which Sony is dominating in.

[Eiyuuou]

Not now, not ever.

If MS wants me to buy their console, they will really need to increase their gaming catalogue.

Scalebound was a promising start, but yeah..., and after that there is nothing that has caught my attention.

[VforVideogames]

what else can Sony say since ps4 pro didn't work for them? a rush product to take the attention away from the Scorpio that's all.

[JasonKCK]

Hypocrite https://www.vocabulary.com/...

[Nyxus]

I'm glad Sony isn't dropping the concept of console generations.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

Microsoft is only doing what they're doing because they see it as an easy way to make a profit.

Microsoft has two choices:
Invest in new exclusives and new IP's or create Game Pass and backwards compatibility in order to re-sell old games DIGITALLY

Which one would be the easiest path to the highest profit margins? Answer that and reasons why Xbox is the way it is will become as clear as day.

[Fishy Fingers]

Rubbish. They support BC because they CAN, by following a similar hardware configuration from gen to gen (360 - X11) it's allowed them system emulation which means games can be added/supported with minimal effort.

It's also likely that most BC games sold are used copies. They're cheap and in abundance.

Next gen, when Sony supports BC as they will follow x86 architecture from the PS4 to PS5 people will celebrate them for giving them the option where as because they currently don't people have to demonise the 'others' that do rather than just accept that it's nice to have additional (free) features.

[Death]

@Hugs,

Profit driven is saying no one wants to play old games on their new systems, but creating a way to charge for it. Profit driven is releasing games you know are not finished or simply bad. Profit driven is wanting a console cycle to end so the games end with it and customers get to begin anew. Profit driven is not allowing third party services that would compete with your own like EA Access. Profit driven is mocking your competitor for talking about having unique TV shows on their console while secretly making your own and creating a cable TV replacement service.

Sony's future is very clear. They spent $380 million dollars because they believe physical copies of games are in the past. Look at how excited they got when they seen 1 million digital copies of Horizon sold. Sony wants a future where game ownership is a thing of the past and where they control how long you can keep and play your games. People like you are to blame for enabling this. You attack Microsoft when they look to extend game ownership and praise Sony when they take it away. I'll be honest, I like the future where the investment I already made has value. This insures any future investments are held the same way.

[rainslacker]

MS will have their generations as well. It's unrealistic to expect hardware to indefinately be supported. They're changing up some of the paradigms involved in the traditional generational shift, but eventually, they're going to drop support of the old. It's not bad to drop support to move forward, but MS has a bad habit across their entire company of dropping it much sooner than they really should. Windows and their productivity software in particular, the OGXbox in the console space. While I'd like to think that MS will indeed support the OGX1 for the duration of what's left of this gen, I don't have too much faith in it if they feel it's more beneficial for them to simply move on. The customer is often not even a consideration when MS deems it necessary to move on.

[MAULxx]

You just cut clean through all the BS & hit the heart of it.

[bluefox755]

They've learned that they can't compete with Sony any more, so they're trying to carve out their own "games as a service" niche in the market.

[Death]

@fishy,

Both the Xbox 360 and PS3 used modified PowerPC architecture. The Xbox One and PS4 use x86 architecture. Xbox One is emulating Xbox 360 via software. It wasn't an easy solution, but it works very well. Each game is downloaded digitally with the disc being used to verify ownership. If you purchased the game digitallly, it simply shows up in your game list for download at no charge if you want it.

Sony could adopt a similar solution if they wanted to, but the customer base makes it very clear it can't and shouldn't be done. There is nothing stopping them from reading your PS3 disc and then not charging you to stream it or in the case of the "classics" that are re-released with trophy support from being re downloaded if you already bought it digitally from Sony.

[Christopher]

***Sony could adopt a similar solution if they wanted to,***

Nope. Cell architecture requires a beefy CPU for emulation. Trying to make the 360 look like the PS3 isn't going to change that and is extremely misleading.

I get the disagreements with Sony's remarks, but it is not possible for them to emulate PS3 games on PS4. It would require complete ports of the games.

[da1writer]

Some here really need to drop their Console war arguments at the door and the necessary need to justify their plastic machine of choice. I'm a person that loves tech no matter the platform and just love games in general (especially retro stuff) and have no need to be a fanboy and worship an item I prefer or own, but it would benefit others to at least do a bit of digging before spouting off nonsense they don't understand.

Whenever I see people bring up backwards compatibility, you'll see hand in hand some bring up Microsoft's excellent miracle of a feature of disc-based/digital backwards compatibility (something PC has had in like forever) vs Sony's decision to do this in a streaming fashion via PS Now for PS4 like it's some sort of way to earn a paycheck from said companies (corporate slave like).

Does anyone even know the purpose of Sony buying Gaikai? Some would go into the fanboy category and say $380 million was used for PS Now only and misinform others (and repeat in nauseum). In reality, Sony purchased Gaikai for it's tech alone for future services they had in the future. There are currently five services utilizing it, one we have already been talking about with some using it for attacking purposes for some reason.
https://www.gaikai.com/#!/p...

PS Now - A way to play PS3 Games via streaming on Consoles (PS4), Mobile (Xperia Phone and tablets), and PC (No longer shackled in needing to buy a plastic box to play Playstation titles)
Remote Play - Continue playing your PS4 away from the console, same platforms as above
Shareplay - Play “Couch Co-op” with a friend over the internet, can also pass the controller to a friend to help you out or try the game before buying
PS Vue - Watch live TV or record your favorite shows on an unlimited DVR
http://fortune.com/2014/11/...
Playstation Store - Videos streaming in the background per game

So let's try to at least have a bit better conversations now and stop dragging up information we know little about to protect our feelings toward a device one owns. @Death , please do some dang research before you start talking about what Sony spent $380 million on, you sound foolish every time I see you post, like you know little to nothing about the subject matter.

[OB1Biker]

'it takes developers time" to get started on new platforms, Layden says.:
And that's what defines a new gen. Good job Sony in defending a traditional console gen even if the tech constantly evolves to support 4K for example. Supporting new TV standard is different than supporting a new generation of games and that's when a true new gen cycle starts.

[meka2611]

But the problem is that the ps4 and xbox one are already becoming dated. Look up some great unreal engine 4 games that are pc exclusive, they are leaps above both consoles. It's just nice to have a choice, I would actually prefer from now on if both companies could release two consoles each generation; you can have the base model and the upgraded one.

[BlackTar187]

Last of us 2 is gonna look awesome. Horizon looks great. GOd of War is gonna look great, Spiderman is gonna look great.

Nothing wrong with the graphics of UC4 or Nier. Nothing at all actually.

PC have always and i mean ALWAYS been leaps and bounds over consoles after 2-3 yrs of console releases. ut then we get things like GOW2 at the end of ps2 and Last of us at the end of ps3.

[Inzo]

"And when it comes to games, well, Ryan says Sony has them in spades, and that's what matters."

And yet the Xbox fan-club seems to ignore this vital piece of information. Because its all about POWER!

[Yohshida]

2013-2016 was all power, games didnt matter. How come it switched?

[Rude-ro]

No, it was an argument about an actual new gen system and price.
The Xbox one is basically a hd 360 that can barely do 1080p and it cost more...
The next argument, and the same argument for 6, going on 7years, is that Microsoft is not a gaming company.
But, the flip flopping awards this gen go to Microsoft fans.

[Liqu1d]

But with you guys it was all about "PS4 has no games", "I play games not resolution", "900p and 1080p look the same". Now it's all about 4K and exclusives are bad. How come it switched?

[Yohshida]

I never said I care about power. I care about the games. The reason I prefer Xboxone over PS4 is because of the games. Im a multiplayer gamer, but I still play PlayStation exclusives im interested in and have fun for a day with them.
Its all about the games.

[rainslacker]

It never switched. Power was supplemental to games and had it's benefits in it's own right. Sony gamers have been saying it's all about the games since before the gen started, and often cited Sony's history of delivering compelling content. Yes, many Sony fans did indeed make a big deal about the power difference, but never did they say it wasn't about the games....at least generally speaking. Even with the new argument of most games being multi-plat for the Xbox side, Sony gamers were very much about the exclusives, with the 3rd party also being available.

[Yohshida]

So it comes down to gamers are patient for Sony to have games the first time after 3 years in. But its HORRIBLE when MS doesn't push out all games at the beginning of 2017? Ok got it.

[LP-Eleven]

Um, not only did the PS4 have plenty of games between 2013 and 2016, it had more than the competing system you so starkly defend.

Get back to us when your Xbox sees its next major exclusive release, while I continue to bump on games like Horizon and Ni-oh. Certainly a can of worms you should have avoided!

[yeahright2]

Like all xbox fanboys you missed the point. It wasn't that PS4 was more powerful. it was that PS4 was more powerful and cost $100 less. Sony's machine was just by far and away a better value.
Also, to a later point you made, Sony has been getting games for PS4 through out it's release. But if you remember it was the xbox crowd downplaying it saying things like Japanese games don't count, indie games don't count, remasters don't count. And now they're the ones clinging onto games like ori 2, below and cuphead (indies), defending backwards compatibility (remasters). and getting all excited because Phil took a trip to japan (Japanese games).

[meka2611]

I have over 200 games on my xbox; I'm tired of fucking hearing this. I own both consoles but to say there is nothing to play on xbox is wrong. I play on xbox more because I feel like the online is better, the controller is better, and the OS is better. So again, just because xbox doesn't have sony's japanese games, and let's be fair that's what most of the exclusives are, doesn't mean there are no games to play. For some people it's a preference.

[DiRtY]

"The notion of the game console "generation" hasn't really changed, says Layden, it's just that "tech cycles are getting shorter." In the old days, from 2000 to 2012, you could release a new console every five to 10 years and roughly keep pace with major advances in technology, Layden says.

"Those days are just gone," says Layden."

Why is the PS4 Pro such a weak upgrade then?
When technology is making these huge steps, you shouldn't come up with a very weak upgrade.

[Liqu1d]

Price and timing.

[DiRtY]

Imagine a PS4 update as strong as the Scorpio.
Most guys here on N4G would give their left arm for it.

[Liqu1d]

Premium consoles only appeal to the minority. Games are more important.

[DiRtY]

you are totally missing the point. Powerful hardware does not mean less games.
Think about The Last of Us 2 on a machine as powerful as the Scorpio...

Don't tell me you wouldn't go nuts about it.

[Liqu1d]

New hardware costs money to make, that money would be better spent on games. Same thing applies to the Pro.

I wouldn't care about TLoU2 on a Scorpio equivalent, just like I don't care about the PS4 Pro, the base system is fine for me. Besides you don't even know how games will perform on the Scorpio, all you've seen is 1 screenshot of Forza.

[xenz]

PS4 Pro is just a incremental, mid-gen upgrade to PS4. It's not meant to be a new generation but a upgrade to play exsisting PS4 games with better framerates and higher resolution, which is why it used a souped-up Jaguar CPU and a dual GPU.

When Sony releases PS5 it will be a substantial upgrade with a new CPU (possibly Ryzen), new GPU (Vega or Navi - 12 to 15 TF, probably more), more and better ram (32 GB GDDR6, HBM3), and new features overall, built on 7nm or 10nm technology. Thats what a new gen would look like

[DiRtY]

Yeah, but Sony said the console lifecycles are much shorter now. Read the quote I posted.
So, if that is true, the upgrade after 3 years should be somehow significant. And not like the PS4 Pro.

[JBaby343]

@DiRtY: Significance is subjective. The Pro is clearly an upgrade. Not as big of a difference as the Scorpio-XBone but what's on screen is noticeably enhanced thus it is significant. What you are arguing is just your bias.

[rainslacker]

It came out three years after the initial PS4, and is more than twice as powerful. That pretty much lines up with Moore's law in terms of R&D, sourcing, manufacturing, and distribution. If MS had released their mid-gen at the same time, it'd probably be the same kind of jump....although potentially a bigger jump over the stock X1.

PS4P isn't a weak upgrade though. It's pretty sufficient for the level of games being made today, and 4K isn't as much a consideration as many claim it to be. The market penetration of 4K TV's is fairly low right now, and while gamers are more likely to have one than the mainstream, 4K TV's still make up less than 10% of overall TV's in the home, where HDR capable TVs sit at less than 3%.

If MS were not releasing the Scorpio, or they released it last year, then the specs themselves would not be considered weak by console standards. It'd actually be ahead of the game in terms of console power vs. current commonly used PC power. Scorpio jumps ahead of that quite a bit. But the power itself is referenced by the competition to be had.....much like how X1 seems to be doing poorly in relation to Sony's rather large success this gen, even though, overall, the X1 isn't doing that badly.

To be 100% honest, the stock consoles of this gen could have been fine for the next 2-3 years giving us a more traditional console cycle, at which point we'd see an even bigger jump in power like one would expect from a generational shift. These mid-gens actually prolong the generation, meaning we'll have to wait longer for a true next gen, as the mid-gens aren't likely to fill that need due to the mandate of forward compatibility.

[TheOttomatic91]

Is it confirmed that MS will be going full iterative consoles life cycles from now on? I don't recall hearing this from them but then again I didn't hear the opposite either.

[rainslacker]

No, it's not confirmed. Their idea of generations though was stated that hardware would continue in a more PC like fashion, where your old stuff isn't rendered useless on new hardware, and there wouldn't be any(or as much) of those not ready to dive into a new gen being left out in the cold in terms of software support....which typically shows up more a year into a new gen as developers move on to the next gen stuff.

If they can achieve this indefinately remains to be seen, and to be truthful, lots of things change all the time to really consider this as a long term advantage. It sounds good to the customer, because it means that they can get more for their money, and move at their own pace, but it ignores the very real scenario that eventually hardware just needs to advance and move on to be better, and supporting the old can actually become a handicap. This was prevelant in the x86 architecture until the dual core line of products started releasing, as the hardware potential was always held back by legacy processes, which eventually became emulated. x86 is more fluid now by abandoning things which held it back, but still maintains that support. This may not always be possible in games though should such a shift in computing technolgy happen....say if something like CELL actually became more mainstream(as a hypothetical). Then of course, the design of games is always fluid, and while it's been rather stagnent since last gen, and likely will remain there for a while due to lack of innovation and diminishing returns on the graphics side of things, eventually, something will advance, and the change will necessitate the advancement of the hardware.

[feraldrgn]

I'd like console generations to stay, else I may as well just get a PC.

[shiva1]

Are you threatening somebody or something?

[falviousuk]

They reject it because they are not doing it (properly) Whereas if Sony was offering BC they would embrace it.
The same goes for the Sony fanboys.
If BC was on the PlayStation and not the Xbox, it would be a different story on here, they would be shouting about it everywhere and trying to use it as another win for their (imaginery) console war.

Play the games and have fun instead of being a sad sad person

[BlackTar187]

What an exaggeration. Ps3 launched with it and it was cool sure but no one was beating their chest about it.

[jokerisalive]

Propably because they charge their users for BC with services like PSNOW or remaster and RESELL you an old favorite so they can make more profit as opposed to giving it to the users for free like MS is doing with XB1 BC.Having choices and options is ALWAYS better and having BC, wether you use it or not, is still better than not having it. Only a hater will argue that for obvious brand loyalty reasons.

[shiva1]

Choices or options only work when its available on playstation. Anything else its waste of time or effort.

[Liqu1d]

Same could be said for Xbox, fanboys only care about choices and options when it's on their platform. PS Now is an option and it's considered a waste by many. No one cared about BC when the Wii U was the only current gen system with it. Remasters are an option yet people complain about those as well.

[meka2611]

Actualy Liqu1d you have that wrong, it's because no one cared about the wii u period.

[Petebloodyonion]

Ouch! this is article is full of contradictions from Sony's part and worst it could be used as an example for bad PR speech (see Don Mattrick)

1) t's just that "tech cycles are getting shorter"
Nope tech aren't getting shorter they are exactly the same, companies tend to revamp a product halfway by making small adjustment (ps 1 Mini, Slim, Xbox slim, etc) difference is Sony and MS saw the success of the smartphone models and wanted to capitalize.

2) "You could release a new console every five to 10 years and roughly keep pace with major advances in technology, Layden says" Only the last Generation had 10 years terms the rest have been around 5 years wich seems to be in line the current Ps4 cycle.

3) " You can't release a brand-new console as quickly as you can launch upgrades to the old one, for the simple reason that "it takes developers time" to get started on new platforms, Layden says."
Does he know what he just said? Basically saying that MS strategy is sound and great.
MS mentioned in the Past that MS's future is based around UWP to prevent having to reinvent every time and avoid the problems of learning curves of a new platform.

4)" So when it comes to the PlayStation 4 Pro, "it is definitely part of the PS4 ecosystem," says Layden." IS he hinting or making an assumption that the Scorpio isn't part of the Xbox1 ecosystem?

I won't comment the rest because it seem's to be the author here trying to explain something or his perception on things and not Ryans comments.

[rainslacker]

1. I agree. I think what's changed though is the console makers ability or desire to utilize those tech advances and roll them out to the consumer. PS4P for instance seems to line up with Moore's Law....which itself is becoming shorter in time frame. The PS4P advancement basically gave 2.3X more power in what would have been 2 years in the R&D/distribution side of things.

2. I agree. 4-6 years is actually much more common. 9-10 years last gen was an anomaly. Sony always supported their consoles long after their generation ended, but the actual next gen typically always came sooner. This gen will likely stay at 4-6 years if we don't consider the mid-gens to be a new gen, which apparently they're not really in the traditional sense.

3. Not to nitpick, but didn't Sony come to market first with a mid-gen upgrade, so basically, isn't MS actually following Sony's strategy to be more fluid with hardware releases? MS took a different track and made what is essentially a next gen console in design, while not quite being next gen in terms of power, but the actual strategy being discussed in the quote, was started by Sony, not MS. At least in terms of release, but with a full year head start, I'd imagine Sony was working on this before MS was.

UWP is just the new DX. It's an API/SDK that allows for more fluid porting. Sony has a similar API for it's consoles, and OpenGL has been available forever. UWP isn't about preventing a learning curve for new consoles, it's about leveling the differences in hardware between Windows operating environments. Console programming though always requires "reinventing the wheel", as low level is still the way to go to get the most out of the console. UWP makes it more appealing to start games in a PC environment, then port to console, which actually helps PC more than the consoles. This is MS end game with UWP, not because they're being altruistic about the future of gaming or the software industry in general. Starting in UWP actually makes it harder to support other platforms.

4. No, just think he's reaffirming that it's part of the PS4 ecosystem, whereas he belives that MS is pushing it too far with their upgrade to border on next gen, and given what MS has said, will likely become a thing where there is no real defined generation, just likely a rolling compliance mandate on how far back a piece of hardware must be supported.

To be honest, I think these new console hardware paradigms are just untested and while I think the companies themselves have plans, as it stands now, it's too soon to tell how it will all go. Obviously, things will change as the market, and the companies, react to consumer demand, or the companies own interest. No one really knows what to expect, and I think it's too soon to make a conclusion with the given data. This whole thing may just be a one time deal to see how things go, and if the market fails to adapt, then I expect the traditional cycle to return. What we're seeing now isn't much different than what we saw from Sega back in the Genesis days, it's just more thought out to be less divisive of the user base. People rejected that for the most part, so if the sales of mid-gens don't actually go anywhere, it could stall this gen. In this case, I wouldn't be surprised to simply see the more powerful console be offered at the start of the gen as a premium version, while the other version would just be for those who are more budget conscience.

[DaGreatOne]

Looks like it's finally Sony's turn to have dozens of articles and be attacked on a weekly basis as everything they say is dissected. Well nothing wrong with that really just apart of the business, ask Phil about it.

BC is a great feature, I really think there is no denying that no matter how many people actually use it. So I definitely have to disagree with Sony on this stand they are taking. I sincerely believe if they had a way to implement it as Microsoft they would be saying different. But I guess they truly didn't forsee a demand for it while designing the console.

With that being said, a lot of people are going on about how they wasted their money buying the technology behind it. How psnow is a complete failure. Well I can't speak on the financial side of it, given there are no real numbers to play around with but I do enjoy it for that it is. As for it being a complete waste in purchasing Gakai, I definitely disagree. See I like I'm sure so many others forgot about all the other uses for the cloud gaming service.

I forgot that it is being used for remote play, something I don't use that often. For share play, another feature that doesn't get touched by me. It's use on the ps store and social integration aspect in the system. I mean these are basically core features that make use of that service on a daily. But you never hear anything about any of those, only psnow gets all the attention. Hell I had to pull up info on the ps4 reveal back on Feb 2013 just to reintroduce that information to myself.

With it all being said and done, I don't think psnow truly panned out to be the success Sony had hoped for. Going back it seemed like they had all these ambitious uses and ideas for the service. But with recent support changes and down talk on the usefulness of BC games, it feels like obviously something has changed. It seems to have less focus on getting people excited to use it and more alike the likes of look we can do this too on the ps4 if you like. So yeah it's disappointing for sure but I won't call that investment they made a waste.

[Robbiedont]

Share play is awesome, I introduced people to games with it and played games like Madden Co-op. Great under valued feature

[esmittystud101]

The sad truth. X1 is very shallow on new games. They have been selling us the same series for over ten years. Notice on the PS4 side games just keep coming and thats why the fan base is not making a huge deal about B.C. feature on PS4. 

When you have nothing to play of course B.C. is a much needed feature. Us over here on the PS4 side, if we wana play something thats on PS3, we do the inevitable......the impossible......the most daring act.......we put the disc in our PS3 and play it. 

Give me games and I will buy them. I'm currently waiting for State of Decay on X1 which comes Friday. Only game I bought on X1 this year. The last was Forza Horizon 3. Before that Quantum Break. Before that Rise of The Tomb Raider. Before that Sunset Overdrive. 

They just have not had that many new games in the past three years/the life of X1. Especially when your not into Halo or Gears of War. Which also tells me PS has had more new games in one years time than X1 has had its entire life.

[meka2611]

While I definitely agree, let's not forget that most of sony's exclusives come from japan. Two big sellers recently have been persona 5, which is awesome, and nier automata. Only real exclusive western games they are have are the usual, just like microsoft. We have god of war, horizon, TLOU, and uncharted. Sony milks their IP's just as much as xbox they just have the japanese market for other games.

[Smokingunz]

Whoever said why the hell would u want to play older games on a new unit is stupid! Especially when last gen had way better games and may u add finished games than the newer consoles. Also why are older games being remastered on newer consoles smh lol double standards.

I for one preferlast gen to this one and I still buy and play games for my older consoles. I think sony made that an excuse because they don't have BC like Xbox do and we're all enjoying it.

[Export]

I been calling this for over a year now . The Console system cycle as we know it , Its dead . Im guessing Xbox will be releasing a new console every 2 years and the games will be played over three to four consoles . Just like Pc games has min requirement and recommend requirement . New games will look the best on the latest console X but you can play it on the Console X , X, and X . It will be a the console version of a pc .

[MAULxx]

The way I see it. They've added another option for us. I'm speaking in view of the PS4 & PS4 Pro.
If you prefer traditional console cycle then you still have that option. The only thing that's new is the option for a "midcycle" upgrade for those that want it. So if you prefer the traditional console cycle then you just have to decide if you are going to buy the base model every generation or wait & buy the upgraded model every cycle. For those that prefer upgrading sooner they now have the option.

[meka2611]

Yea I mentioned that earlier, would be nice to have two choices for consoles when they come out. The base model and the "pro" model.

[Mikey Mike]

I wish people in the industry just would come out and say it, BC does not generate revenue for game studios. SONY knows that. How many people would rush out to buy the first Gran Turismo versus the new one? Remakes make money if done well, and we are seeing fewer titles getting the make over.

[meka2611]

Yea but the main thing that fanboys argue about both companies is that they take care of their consumers, but like you said it's all about money.

[Christopher]

I disagree. BC is an indirect money generator in that more people with access to older games will be more likely to buy newer games. Is it the best way? No. But, it's an additional path to generating future revenue and developing a fanbase.

[dcbronco]

That Sony executive has to say that. They have no way in short of building the infrastructure and software capabilities Microsoft has. Sony doesn't currently have the money to do that. If Scorpio and Play Anywhere successfully cuts into the low end PC market, and it will, Sony currently has no answer. If Microsoft opens Xbox to PC games it will surely happen. Sony knows Scorpio is a huge threat in that it could drastically change who is a console gamer.

That's why Microsoft will launch at $399 and take a loss for the first year or less. They can drop the APU down to 7nm next year and be very profitable. If they demonstrate all 4k/60 mainstream games at e3 and a $399 price people previously looking at a $600 GPU or even a $400 one will choose Scorpio. Devs will choose UWP and Play Anywhere.

Scorpio will be huge.

[rainslacker]

You're not generally prone to such hyperbole or baseless assumption.

MS had a play anywhere solution last gen, it failed to go anywhere, much like I don't see it going anywhere with MS because for the most part, most people don't play across multiple platforms. It's a nice thing to have should one have more than one way to play games though.

Scorpio itself could cut into the low end PC gaming market though, but not likely the general PC market. I highly doubt we'll see them make the Xbox into a full fledged closed Windows PC. While the potential is there, they don't really gain anything from it, as PC apps and games don't net them much revenue, unless they force the Windows Store to circumvent Steam, in which case, it'll probably not go over that well. On top of that, there are issues with licensing from the publisher end when they define it as a PC like that, as those marketing deals tend to get tricky when it comes to defining consoles.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that MS can't "win" by simply redefining what a console is. No doubt some of the things you claim about MS snagging up PC marketshare would be high on their to-do list because they've lost a lot over the years due to mobile, but there are some pretty big considerations to make it work fully to their advantage.

I believe Xbox is there to have another outlet for the Windows OS and ecosystem. It's not meant to replace PC, but rather bring in people who aren't interested that much in PC into the Live ecosystem.

MS isn't known to take a loss on their products, and selling at $399 would be a move of desperation, as it would take several years to recoup the loss. Sony took a bigger hit on the PS3, and it took them a whole generation to turn the loss around.

I'm not sure the 4K/60 debate is really that relevant to the larger market, or even the market that Scorpio is likely to appeal to. Scorpio likely won't be huge, because it's not marketed as such a thing, as huge things tend to not be the "premium" things.

Devs aren't really jumping on UWP now, and I don't see that changing because Scorpio releases. Sony is too successful right now to really make it a consideration for making PC(UWP) the primary for game development. To date, despite UWP being available on PC, devs/pubs aren't flocking to UWP to make quick and easy work of porting between PC and console. This ease is the same promise made with DX12, and to some degree, it's the same promise made with many versions of DX. Yet, DX isn't always the primary target build. With OGL becoming more popular, and Vulkan showing marked gains in performance akin or surpassing DX, the whole field becomes murkier.

Scorpio is likely to sell at the same percentage rate that we see PS4 and PS4P, as both consoles appeal to similar markets, but since I don't expect Scorpio to be $399, I don't think it's going to be as enticing to pick one up over the stock console should one be in the market for the platform like some may be with the PS4P....and even that is questionable if it's enticing.

[dcbronco]

Allow me to retort. It's not hyperbole or baseless assumptions. I think if you look at the bigger picture and focus less on gaming you'll understand.

On the price of Scorpio everyone has these huge numbers in their heads about what a console cost to manufacture. The biggest problem with these estimates is using retail pricing estimates for a semi-custom contract. The numbers aren't in the same ballpark and this happens every generation. Yet gamers make the mistake again the next time around.

Remember the ridiculous price estimates thrown around for One and PS4? $550-600 was the low end. Look at my post from back then. I consistently said cost would be between $300-400. The lower cost based on the Microsoft leak showing ARM as the CPU.

Scorpio has a part licensed from AMD(Puma+) that they worked with AMD heavily modifying. It will cost Microsoft $60 to manufacture if that. Polaris cost $200 retail with 4GBs of RAM. Again Microsoft licenses the part and works with AMD making changes and will pay $100 or a little less. They'll pay $120 for RAM. $120 for HD Bluray. $80 for everything else. I'm going with inflated estimates.

To put it all together, I believe it will cost Microsoft $460-80 shipped. And next year, 2018, they should be able to shrink that down to 7nm and skip 10nm on the APU. That will provide a huge savings. And that should ramp up quickly because I believe the process they're using is based on the 14nm process now being used. Even if the shrink is 2019 the normal annual contract adjustments and refinements of process bring it under $400 to ship.
So the losses aren't that great and wouldn't be that long.

[dcbronco]

On whether PC gamers will go for Project Scorpio here's why millions will. Steam info shows the average PC gamer is at 1080p hoping to go to 4k/60. Tons are still at 720p. Polls on tech sites and AMD/Intel sales figures show i5s and Ryzen 5 are the sweet spot chips. AMD and NVIDIA sell mostly at the midrange level. 970s not Titans. So you're still talking about low 4k or rock solid 1080/60.

If Scorpio holds to specs and gives a good 4k/60 experience for far less than they would pay for that 1080 plus gives them mouse and keyboard many will opt for Scorpio. Scorpio will give them now what they otherwise won't get for three or more years by sticking with PC and for less money.

Now I know you know about the royalty cost involved in console gaming. Many devs won't give that up to go to console but there is a compelling reason to do it. Plus a compelling reason for Microsoft to not rely so much on it.

For the dev Scorpio will bring console gamers to them. It cost them very little to transfer a game to UWP. Or they use it from the start. It increases the size of the available market.

For Microsoft they don't need that $10 royalty as much anymore. It's often bargained away for some form of exclusivity now anyway. But the real difference there for Microsoft is Azure.

As Sony said with Horizon, one third was digital. Azure allows Microsoft to provide storage and delivery. Considering all the normal cost differences between digital and disc there is more than enough room for Microsoft to make a fee on each copy sold.

Microsoft could also handle marketing on Live and they make a profit from dlc. Companies can hold onto antiquated business models but most brick and mortar stores can tell you that is a mistake.

[dcbronco]

Here's another reason I see UWP catching on. The Snapdragon 835. We are moving into a time where more than enough power for everything you need will be in your pocket.

Having a cellular modem built into your SoC and enough power to play quality games will be a game changer. Add the ability to make that work on every device a person might own at very little extra cost to the dev is hard to resist.

With the ability to cast to a TV and the power increases expected from the next chips we will have very high quality gaming soon on our phones. And online gaming will be easier because you'll always have a cellular connection. With a program like Play Anywhere you could play as a commander on a table on your way to grandmas house or project to a screen in a vehicle.

Windows is the platform. Microsoft has been saying that for several years now. People are too close. They have to step back to take it in. Focus less on Xbox and PC and mobile and look at Windows. Then think about things like UWP, Play Anywhere and dynamic resolution.

It's too cheap an option with far too many potential customers for people in competitive fields to ignore. Scorpio is Microsoft's best chance to start tying it all together. Re-masters are built in. It goes where you go. And it ties every market together.

That's why Scorpio will be $399.

[dcbronco]

Oh, one more thing. Sorry, Steve Jobs.

Besides that $399 price, expect a new Minecraft to tie all of the devices together. They will use Minecraft to show developers how it's done.

[rainslacker]

On pricing. I think that it won't be $399, and I'm one of those people that will often go on about the supply or manufacturing chain and explain it to others. I'd be surprised if MS can make these for less than $450 just based on the hardware we know that's in it, and that's using wholesale sourcing prices. MS isn't well known to release products at a loss. Maybe the recent Win10, but they are looking at that from a different point of view than the Xbox hardware. Of course, I may be wrong about the wholesale prices, and even about MS taking a loss. We should know soon enough.

As far as PC gamers, that doesn't make much sense. If they like PC gaming, then why not just invest in a $400 GPU which will provide them more gain with their current hardware and provide the 4K/60 they're looking for. If 4K/60 isn't that important to them now, why would it be on a console? Again, it's assuming things from a general standpoint, when the actual numbers who will do as you say probably aren't going to be that big overall. On top of that, Xbox won't have Steam, and investing in Xbox would pretty much negate most of their investment into their PC gaming.

On UWP, Porting to UWP is like porting to any other platform for the most part. Less work going from one PC SDK/API to UWP, but ultimately not as fluid as it seems. Porting is porting. UWP isn't just some switch to throw to build to different platforms, and it certainly doesn't make a game run great on consoles just because it's used. Quite the opposite really, since UWP isn't as low level as what is traditionaly done on consoles. So if this kind of port is going to be used, don't expeect that extra power in Scorpio to really be taken advantage of, as we're now movin into PC high level programming.

Also, consoles wouldn't exist without that licensing fee. That is where they make their money. While they are bargained away to some degree, the vast majority of software sales bring in big money, and the online stores bring in even more. Licensing fees are attached to digital games as well. Nothing is going to change here. It's easy money because they have the platform that people want to play on. If MS could do the same thing on Windows, they would. Instead, they are now trying desperately to get their own marketplace to be popular like Apple and Google, so they can make their money that way.

The rest of the things they can do are just potential scenarios that MS could do, but why move away from a sure thing? It also doesn't support your initial argument, as there is nothing indicating that they will actually move away from the current licensing model.

[dcbronco]

First, I know you know better when it comes to console price. With the exception of Nintendo and One and PS4 the basic console business model was sell at a loss initially and make it up on software.

It's obvious you picked through what I wrote. Understandable, it was a lot. But the royalty business model is changing. They have no choice. AMD is releasing an APU with more power than S and the basic PS4. So why wouldn't console gamers buy that. It's rumored AMD has their process down so well they're getting over 80% yields and low end Threadripper 16 core chips will cost them just $120-40 each to produce.

It's the same process the Microsoft chip is using. You think 8 core Puma+ chips are going to be over $60? You know they aren't. Vega launches in weeks, R580 already out with refinements. You really believe Microsoft pays more than $100 for a license and manufacture agreement? GDDR5 is no longer top of the line. It's not using a SSD.

The console will be well under $500 to ship. And again 7nm soon follows. People buy $300-350 GPUs mostly and that doesn't guarantee you 4k/60 in most cases. And that is just the GPU. Add the same for the CPU. Add a new mobo. Many are going AMD on CPU so that means a new mobo. Scorpio is $400 and you're set.

UWP gets you Android, Apple, PC and Xbox. With the power coming to mobile and low cost laptops UWP will catch on.

The gaming business model is changing. With the coming power, online ability, low cost, quick technology jumps and demographics leading to huge growth in gaming the one with the name that goes everywhere wins.

Even Nintendo is doing some mobile. Sony is starting to get their feet wet. You're focused on current UWP shortcomings. Microsoft will work that out. You're also forgetting gaming servers for Microsoft are basically free since business premiums more than cover the cost of hardware. Azure us already pretty big and growing fast.

That is another thing often missed. Xbox benefits more than Xbox. Kinect is the foundation of Hololens. That will make money. Working with AMD has allowed Microsoft to make things cheaper to keep cost down for other products. I'm sure elements of the Surface line can be traced back to Xbox. It's not just about the royalties anymore though the free servers allow them to make money from digital without it.

But we will know soon.

[rlow1]

In the end it all comes down to cost for the consumer. How can any gamer defend wanting to play their old PS game by re-purchasing them. This isn't about Percent's, this is about CHOICE and right now MS offers better choice when playing old games. Yes its a bonus feature, but better that then having to pay for it.

[XStation4pio_Pro]

Lol. So they did the same thing but ended up with with less hardware and no bc unless you pay per tittle to rent. so now they don't agree - even tho the pro exists and they plug psnow on every Sony device I own (2 smart tvs a PS4 pro) Console wars are like politics these days. Spin spin spin.

[yeahright2]

But you just did a fair amount of spinning yourself. PS Now was never meant to be a solution to backwards compatibility, they never referred to it as such, yet you pretend like that's the case.

[meka2611]

Then what's it for?

[yeahright2]

To play playstation games with or without a playstation. If you're an xbox gamer who wants to try out uncharted, you would have no need to buy a PS3 just for that, You just turned on your smart TV and rented it for a bit. If you're someone who travels a lot, you wouldn't have to lug your console around from airport to airport, or if you simply want to play a game without having to pay full price. Now Sony messed this up royally, and PS now is essentially rubbish. But you'll never find a quote from Sony saying that this was their version of Backwards compatibility.

[leeeroythe3rd]

We reject this concept bc it is what we have done with pro and this scorpio is more powerful

[LgbtWarrior]

Upgrading to the pro was the best decision for me. The supported pro games upscaled to 4k really are a sight to behold. It takes getting used to as it's quite dramatic at first. There are some bad pro 4k modes like resident evil 7. that to me just looks awful with the upscale on, but that's the developer. Looks much better in 1080p with hdr. Games like horizon, uncharted, and ratchet and clank make perfect use of the checkerboard and Temporal injection. But the 1080 P Super sampling is great also. But you can really see a lot of digital noise in 1080 P and imperfections you didn't really notice before. I just leave my 4k upscale on because it cleans up the image quite well and gets rid of all the digital noise it's such an improvement graphically. It's softer as a result but it looks cleaner. Really hope the pro and Scorpio dominate so more developers can release patches and continue with 4K and HDR more aggressively it's awesome

[Gwiz]

Backwards compatibility is a great way of keeping prior customers and introduce new customers that haven't played the prior games.( No the reason for remastered games was not a valid one by default,only because the company itself didn't have a simple solution to add BC,meaning Sony)

Not to mention they had to find a way to implement a streaming service that didn't have a direct competition on the same platform.So saving money on BC and having a way to justify the purchase of a streaming service was a win-win situation for Sony.

I understand why they didn't go with BC,but the solution to that unfortunate situation was pretty bad IMO (streaming).

[Bronxs15]

This happens when companies are in first. It's called hubris.

The hubris after all the ps2 success knocked them down with PS3. And Microsoft hubris after the 360 hurt them with the Xbox one. And Nintendo's hubris after the Wii cost them with the Wii u. They thought they could release crap hardware not more powerful than previous gen and get away with it.

[3-4-5]

* Understand this:

Sony,Microsoft & Nintendo are advancing forward in generations at three completely different rates.

"Gaming generations" or "Gens" are done being all 3 release at once or near each other.

It benefits Sony more to release when it's best for them. Nintendo is benefitting from releasing the Switch as they did and walking their own path.

Microsoft is doing their own thing as well.

I want all three of them to do as they are and walk their own path. The worst thing ever is making all three of these exactly the same.

I love the differences.

[MultiConsoleGamer]

Nothing but meaningless PR blather from a company that's already released the PS4 Pro, and has tentative plans for yet another PS4 upgrade.

[Darkfist_Flames]

Good, just show us the games, thats all i ask, let those fanboys get hyped over empty words.

[The_Sage]

So many half wit fanboys.

[modelgod]

Quickk question off topic. Do IGN get paid for reviews? I'm dead serious! ! I have no clue as to how Tekken 7 got a 9.5. That's basically putting it in the class of best fighting game ever, and from what I've played, injustice 2 is borderline WAY better. It's absurd! Games pots review is pretty much in line with how I view the game. I lost ALL respect for IGN.

[X-23]

PS4 Pro is nothing like Scorpio and it was never intended to be. Sony never tried to use the Pro as a mid-gen console to render the PS4 obsolete in many ways; like Microsoft is doing with the Scorpio imo, they are literally treating it like it's the second coming of the XB1...which I guess they have to do that to get people to want to buy it since they won't acknowledge in its current state the XB1 is a disaster, nowhere NEAR as bad as it was originally and I guess people have Phil Spencer to thank for that, but even now the support just doesn't seem to be there.

The Pro was, and always will be an alternative way to play your PS4 games. It's an option and its existence doesn't hinder any upcoming software from their first party or third party studios. This is how it should be. I don't own a Pro and I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything because of that.

Microsoft on the other hand is treating this like the Scorpio is the centerpiece console like this is their new foundation and I'm willing to beat that the majority of their E3 presentation will be revolved around that. This pisses me off, because I own a XB1 and their focus on Hardware centric advancement so early while literally having damn near no real exclusive software in comparison to Sony is ridiculous.

[hiawa23]

BC is important to me. I have hundreds of X360 games, as the 360 gameswise is my alltime favorite console, so I play more BC titles than this gen. My PS3 was only used as a blu-ray player and the few of its exclusives, as I did not like PSN at all. All multiplats were on the 360 for me so I am loving BC on the X1 now X1s, and can't wait to see the games further enhanced on the Scorpio, so MS is right on this as they have turned the Xbox around from that horrid start, and they just need to keep doing what they have been because even though I have a Wiiu and PS4 Pro my console platform of choice is still Xbox. MS got BC right as far as I am concerned. Seems MS want to extend libraries from gen to gen, and Sony either wants to end them or charge you to play remasters or games you already own.

[dilbig5]

@moldybread

I don't know why everyone complains about PS4 servers, I literally never get shut out or not connect to any game unless my internet is going bad or there others' suck. But that's not a system feature, it's a network feature. Ones's downloads are terrible.

I will say Play Anywhere is a nice thing but again, not a system feature. It's a feature for that select game from that publisher. If anything is really play anywhere, it's Switch or any handheld. Technically a lie but it's just crossbuy, not play anywhere.

When you don't list anything actually about the system, kinda defeats the purpose of responding to my comment.

[jorellpogi]

The article is a bit vague. At any case, I commend SONY's support to traditional console generation simply because it is cheaper in the long run. This is true to 2nd and 3rd world countries that can't afford to pay incremental upgrades every few years. A lot of people still buying the PS3 because they still can't afford the PS4 console and games.

[Smokingunz]

This article is dumb and so is the people on here making the comments smh. It's lIke this, new consoles hAve been dropping since every 5 years written the exception of last gen because so y wanted to drag the years to make up for the ps3, facts!!! Miss just followed suit. There's nothing wrong with the 5 year plus cycle because consoles are in their own realm and people were ok with this cycle it has nothing to do with rapid change of technology because consoles has been always useing old tech and people were fine with it. The pro only existed because sony caught wins of ms wanting to make a more powerful console so that's when the fear came in. U see how well the the pro did right? It didn't sell like sony wanted to everybody prefers the old ps4 and the graphics didn't even look better lol gaming now a days has become a an expensive joke. I rather play my switch thank u. The last great gaming gen was the 360 Era.