Bungie said it could not provide information for the Xbox Scorpio version before the presentation of Microsoft at E3 2017.
It would be interesting if Scorpio run Destiny 2 at 4k/60fps.
The CPU on Scorpio is only ~9% more powerful than PS4 Pro. I very highly doubt 60fps is possible. It would also alienate Xbox One users.
@MadPandaSkills "The CPU on Scorpio is only ~9% more powerful than PS4 Pro. I very highly doubt 60fps is possible. It would also alienate Xbox One users." Alienate Xbox One users? The PC does not require all palyers to have the same hardware and it works just fine for a lot of people. So does Forza Horizon 3 which is already on the Xbox One at 30fps and the PC at an unlocked frame rate. It isn't just the CPU that is holding it back because they could easily allow this to be 1080p and 60fps if they had to. Sony has a partity clause, Microsoft already said they do not and Forza Horizon 3 is proof of that. I play online at 60fps.
@Moldybread Please stop with the PC argument. Consoles use dedicated hardware so the playing field is fair amongst players. Having Xbox One run a MP game at 30fps while Scorpio runs the MP at 60fps will create an unfair advantage whether you like it or not. PS4 Pro and Scorpio are mid generation consoles not next generation.
@Moldybread umm while that sony has that parity thing... it doesn't really stand as they already let player play DS3 at an unlocked framerate on the pro, and also there is boost mode so i think it was just a statement to calm people down. if destiny could run scoprio at 60fps then the pro could have as well (even if it would mean a few minor drops.)
The CPU has a much smaller impact on visual fidelity than many of you want to believe. The CPU impacts physics much more. The GPU is for resolution and frame rates. Keep in mind these are APU's we are discussing and not traditional CPU/GPU architecture. To see a real world example of this you simply need to look at the PS4 and Xbox One. The Xbox One has a stronger CPU while the PS4 has the stronger GPU. Which has had the higher native resolution and frame rate this gen? Scorpio will have both a stronger CPU and GPU. You can draw your own conclusions on how it will perform against the Pro.
Are console gamers a bunch of communists?
It is, if you look at the hard numbers. But there is a lot more going on at the hardware level. DirectX command for example. They did a lot to remove bottlenecks. Scorpio ran forza at the same level as a GTX 1080. You're gonna be surprised at what it's capable off. Maybe it won't be with destiny. (Because bungie is probably choosing for parity)
@death uh Did u not watch ign's interview with the devs where they stated the ps pros GPU is really powerful allowing them to achieve 4K but the bottleneck to 60fps was the CPU? Xbox Scorpio will have the same problem
@Dirk, These aren't traditional CPU/GPU setups. If the CPU is lacking, computations can be offloaded to the GPU for assistance. This takes away from the GPU's ability to do its job with the graphics, but if it's strong enough it can assist and still output higher fidelity graphics. The Pros 4.2 tflops of power is the measurement of the systems overall processing power. Scorpio's overall processing power is 6 tflops. This number includes the CPU's contribution. You can't discount the extra couple tflops of processing ability by focusing on one of the components that are part of the overall measurement. There is no doubt that a more powerful CPU would result in more power, but the overall measurements are what they are.
It's the gpu and ram that matters. CPU just handles logic (framework, ai, animation cycles etc). And the gpu and ram on Scorpio are significantly upgraded compared to the pro.
They have way more optimizations than that. If you think the different is just 9% I got news for you, prepare to be disappointed. The Xbox Scorpio also has a ton more bandwidth which is the major bottleneck for the Pro.
So? Xbox One versions of Xbox 360 games have gained enhancements over their 360 counterparts then still support Xbox One & Xbox 360 in online situations. Nobody is complaining about being alienated outside of Pro owners & justifiers. Likely because they're being alienated the most by having higher end products they can't use because of base PS4 users.
It's more than just CPU power! Scorpio is head-and-shoulders more powerful than PS4 Pro if you think it's not you're just being delusional.
But the scorpio was designed a whole different way and the cpu doesn't use even 50% of the load the x1/ps4 does if you hve been keeping up with the articles by df and other sources you would know the scorpio has eliminated any bottlenecks in it's design so comparing it to ps4pro or even pc is just a dead end argument because in their design and how they're developed for are 2 totally different things! You'll just have to wait till E3 to see the proof in the pudding! Because scorpio has a huge advantage in performance and how Luke Smith was all straight up about the lack of power in the ps4pro and just not capable of anything but 30fps and then also stating they wanted to push each platform to their capable max!
Alright guys think what you want. The dev clearly indicated that the ps pro Gpu was not a bottleneck and CPU was. You and I can speculate till the cows come home but this is what the devs said as part of an answer that involved asking if scorpio would be 60fps. It doesn't matter anyway at the end of the day you'll buy the game for the platform your friends will be on regardless of the fact it will sell he most on PS4.
dirkdady, nice tap dance, you did there. lol, you know you've lost the technical arguement when you have to fall back on sells. pffft, as if that changes which version is better. I mean I fully understand that Destiny 2 could be the same on both pro & Scorpio because really it's up to Bungie but the excuses some make for why Scorpio"s better specs don't matter are downright laughable.
Tap dance? Wow u guys are really delusional .. I think you are overestimating what you will see in terms of support for Scorpio. I really doubt you will get games that are 30 fps difference between pro and Scorpio.. if the devs chose to keep it unlocked you may see some delta but I doubt it will truly be of meaningful difference that will make someone go out a get it over the pro version. Just going by the devs they said gpu on pro was not a bottleneck but CPU was so this same scenario applies to Scorpio regardless of the difference in gpu. You talk about devs doing all kinds of resource allocating to free up CPU cycles.. lol you guys make me laugh. You really think they will fundamentally change how the game operates and is optimized for Scorpio which won't even have a fraction of the market share? Someone I strongly doubt it. Let's see who ends up eating crow. ;)
@Death The TFlop rating in the consoles is the rating of the peak that the GPU can achieve. Actual TFlop performance is unknown, because it's never been revealed. The traditional way to rate TFlops is overall system performance, but since this became a better way to discern between GPU generations, it's been hijacked for this purpose. It's actually quite possible that the GPU's may never achieve their peak for sustained periods. Although this isn't the case, because the consoles are optimized to try and achieve this peak at the GPU level as often as possible. However, even with these peaks, the overall system TFlop rating may not actually achieve that continuously. Other than that, when it comes to GPU compute, it's generally physics calculations that get offloaded. The GPU's are designed to process physics at a base level, because graphics are pretty much nothing but physics nowadays. But if the game is CPU bound, then this isn't being done much or at all. An average GPU is actually better at these kinds of calculations than the fastest consumer level CPU. You are right though that doing so does take away from the visual fidelity and performance of said graphics. In this case, Bungie opted for better looking, than better performing, or decided that 30fps was sufficient for consoles, or it is what they said, that since they needed parity, and the PS4P had that extra grunt for higher resolutions, they went with higher resolutions.
@xstation You're just wrong. CPU matters immensely. Google CPU bottlenecks.
I dont think theres a *huge difference between Scorpio and PS4pro. The only fault I find with your biased statements is when you turn a technical discussion into one of sells, then in your last post you make statements like this: "You really think they will fundamentally change how the game operates and is optimized for Scorpio" -Uhm how is either better Res, or better texture detail, or better framerate "fundamentally" changing how the game operates? We've seen all that happen early this gen when X1 and ps4 launch= the devs didnt do it to prioritize one console over the other, no they simply said well ps4 has a little more power so we can do a bit more in this area or that area. To say no dev will take advantage of Scorpio is BS, you will definitely eat crow on that one, looks like WoT dev already have, and remember its very early. http://gearnuke.com/world-t... -Now go ahead and change the subject OR accuse me of thinking Scorpio is a super pc console that will run every game at 4K60fps.
4show think ur kinda missing the point here. No one doubts Scorpio is more powerful my point is no one will really make use of that power including Microsoft as it's in the exact same boat as the ps pro it's a mid gen refresh to augment to the base hardware Xbox one. There is a reason why bungie dropped last gen support to design a game that is not confined to last gen hardware. If Microsoft were to come out tomorrow and say Scorpio is next gen and can have its own exclusive games then that is a different story. Just like the pro what you will see are 4K versions of games and "boost" like performance inprovrments for games devs leave unlocked. That's pretty much it not much of a selling point if you ask me. Bottom line don't hang your hat on Scorpio as some micraculous Xbox savior as it isn't. Set ur expectations accordingly.
Alienate how? Gears 4 on PC is already runs at uncapped frame-rate and it supports crossplay coo-op and versus...I have played with PC users and experienced no issues whatsover. I have destroyed lot of pc users with controller with ease in Gears 4 .. Same goes for Horizon 3.. MS said games will work on both Scorpio version will look and run better...They never promised level playing field for both users... Horizon Zero dawn on Pro runs at higher frame-rate but i played on ps4 base model with no issues..i don't mind if Scorpio and pro users get better experience...They paid more money, they deserve better treatment... And Scorpio CPU is 9% powerful but if you go and read DF article they said that they are adding DX12 capability in gpu and reduced draw calls to 11 from 1000 to combat cpou bottleneck....We will see how it runs but it is definitely faster and more efficient than Pro CPU
" Sony has a parity clause"" LMAO !!!
the game would be unbalanced from a technical and network play stand point. the game must play at 30 fps on XBO XBO S and by extension Scorpio because the game is has to work and have frame rate parody on XBO... This is a multi-player centric game on the same generation... It's not like Battlefield 4 which was 60fps on PS4 and XBO but 30fps on PS3 /XB360 where they used different architecture and netcode and different servers.. Also, Destiny 2 will still be played primarily on Base PS4 and XBO/S I just don't understand why fanboys think there's going to be this huge exodus of players who's gonna stop playing XBO just to upgrade to Scorpio. These mid gen consoles are targeted at the gamers who want 4k versions of the games they have on XBO and PS4.
@ madpandaskills How do you figure the CPU is only 9% more powerful? It's 9% faster however it's also been heavily customized. Unless you no something that only a MS employee or a developer knows. Moldy bread can use the PC comparison because MS allows cross platform play between windows PC and x1 on games. Problem with people like you panda is that you only care about one platform, and intelligent person would care about them all
dirkdady, lmao, I actually agree with alot of what you said but right on Q, you always throw out those red herring arguements: "Bottom line don't hang your hat on Scorpio as some micraculous Xbox savior as it isn't." -pffft, OMG you are so wrong of course Scorpio will be a super ultra powerful pc console capable of running Star Citizen at 4K120fps, while running quantum physics calculations, curing all the world's disease in the background. Yeah that's what I've been saying this whole time. /s = Wow, I can tell Scorpio's spec advantage really bothers you alot.
Yeah that would be interesting but i highly doubt it lol.
4k/30 with ultra settings is more likely since the consoles are supposed to be capped at 30fps in order to level the playing field.
My guess is ms is gonna beg bungie to have this at 60fps on Scorpio for bragging rights even if that's at 1080. Now seeing that the pro is essentially a 470 GPU, I reckon this is more to do with Sony gimping your frame rate for parity than anything else as no matter what bungie say, bf1 has loads more going on physics wise so really doubt it's to do with the CPU on the pro
It better if you talk the talk you have to walk the walk
But its going to be Armageddon if it can't. And not just in regards to that system. After all the continuing hub-bub about, if the Scorpio still has struggle for basics, the message that consoles in general will never match PC will be clear.
1080/60 with pc ultra equivalent settings is my guess. Would still be a big win for MS
Either way people better get used to seeing the Scorp come out on top in the Digital Foundry console videos.
since sony won't allow cross play there is a chance in that regard, but honestly scorpio would have an advantage over xbox one OG owners so that would be the line i doubt they would cross.
Scorpio really wouldn't have any trouble running the game in 4K 60 FPS. Just look at Battlefront and Cod they run at 60 fps etc. Also ps4 pro if people noticed they said it was "4K" they never mentioned native resolution. I think Xbox users should prepare for native 4K 30 on Destiny 2. Its the deal between Sony and bungie most likely.
Now you sir, speak with the voice of reason. Parity among Xbox One Users or the deal they have with Sony are the most likely factors on it not running 60fps on Scorpio.
There is no parity with Xbox One. Scorpio boosts Xbox One titles out of the box. Why would you think they would suddenly downgrade games to make them run like they are on the Xbox One?
What parity? What na really idiotic statement! If parity exists, why Sony didn't forbid MS to sent devs to Bungie to push first Destiny to 1080p?
Sony can't dictate what a 3rd Party multiplatform developer does with their engine.
the problem isn't GPU resources but CPU, and while all consoles still use jag CPU which is much worse than modern day PC's it won't do 60fps. the scoprio is only 9.5% faster than the pro cpu wise. also the devs themselves confirmed all console versions of D2 run at 30fps and it is due to CPU power. are you just gonna claim that scorpio isn't a console now?
PS4 Pro and Scorpio cpu comparisons dont equate to that stat you gave or whatever 9.5 faster. to make it seem similar. But its logic here... Destiny 2 has a PVP mode in the multiplayer.... and that wont run 60 fps. I mean you dont have to be a rocket scientist to see that it could clearly run 60 fps.
It will be interesting to see if they lock frame rate on Scorpio. Bungee already stated PC won't be locked and will run at whatever your PC can handle.
scoprio cpu/ pro cpu = 2.3GHZ/2.1GHZ = 1.095 = 9.5% increase. why do you think that the scorpio could handle it when the pro can't?
Im not gonna waste time explaining the CPU differences but ill show you a pretty straight forward example based on PS4 Pro. Battlefield 1 runs 1800p checkboarded to 4K on ps4 pro at 60 fps in its campaign. [4K] Battlefield 1 PS4 Pro vs PS4/PC Ultra Graphics Comparison/Analysis https://youtu.be/Qu705pp0mv... Scorpio would easily run this game at 4K 60 fps. The power is there for it. So Destiny 2 should have no problem running native 4K 60 FPS. Now ill let you and others act foolish and spin this.
@Zive, It's almost like that extra couple teraflops of power aren't coming from the CPU...
If they had the "exact" same CPU I would buy your argument, however there are customizations done that will differentiate the Scorpio.
DX 12 built right into the GPU of the Scorpio so would taker a load of processing right away from the CPU. I am guessing that the PC version is built for DX12 so there you go so that would apply in the Scorpio's case. Also more Ram, 12Gigs, will help for textures etc. The PS4 doesn't have any of those perks to its system.
but we are talking about two different games and if bungie said that CPU wise they can't handle 60 fps mode on pro then they can't handle 60 fps on scorpio as well. they have made the game on consoles based around smooth 30fps instead of targeting 60 fps like in BF (which i know makes no sense as BF looks even better but i think it is just because bungie is lazy). also BF targeted 60fps on regular consoles while that this one targets 30fps on base hardware.
Lol. You just watched a video showing Battlefield 1 PS4 Pro footage at 60 fps but apparently its because the game just targeted 60 fps. "Developers are free to choose how they use the power of Project Scorpio for games. We have no requirements limiting framerate or fidelity." - Mike Ybarra https://twitter.com/XboxQwi... But dont worry. Your gonna see a number of shooters on scorpio running 4K 60 fps. Its inevitable.
Bungie also said they appreciate the loyalty their Xbox fans had for over a decade, then they released exclusive content for the PlayStation and made sure to keep Destiny 2 away from PlayAnywhere so Xbox/PC owners would have to buy it twice.
Your knowledge of the Xbox one scorpio cpu is laughable. Do you know anything about the cpu customizations on Scorpio? Of course you dont.... because if you did you'd know about the Scorpio CPU's improvisation and efficiency in performance.
@Kionic So little has been said about the customization that I doubt one could discern just how those optimizations would actually affect development and operation of a game on the whole. I doubt highly that you even understand most of what was even said about what optimizations they did have, and with what was said, I don't see how you extrapolate that as being in any way relevant to the physics engine, since DX optimization won't make physics run any better. DX isn't a physics engine, and the data being pushed to and fro will gain no benefit from it. Havok as of yet hasn't been integrated into DX to the point that MS could have made those implementations within the CPU, nor do I see why they would when the system is designed to be highly dependent on GPU compute to increase performance. Customizing a CPU to work in a way that is counter to how the system is designed makes no sense, and is a waste of money because MS isn't looking at just providing every thing under the sun in a general purpose system, they are looking at providing a highly tuned console, meant to be programmed a certain way. There are some other things in the customization which may make this better, like faster memory....which is actually reduced a bit due to moving to GDDR5 instead of the DDR3 since physics aren't a serial data type. Ironic huh? The command processing stuff won't speed up the data transfers required to run physics either, nor will they make the processor run those functions faster once they get to the processor, although the slightly higher clock speed will run it around 7-9% faster. I think you're taking something that is beneficial for some things, and extrapolating it to mean that everything under the sun will benefit. It's a good thing that you don't waste your time explaining the difference though, because you don't actually know how, nor understand the differences or how they're relevant to the conversation. All you can do is regurgitate quotes, regardless of if they are pertinent to the topic at hand. Then you show some videos and assume that it'd be the same, despite the example provided being a completely different game, made on a completely different engine, and using a completely different design paradigm on a base level to achieve what it did.
You don't know what the Scorpio can handle yet. It's not released.
I think itll be 4K/30fp on Scorpio just because of Xbox One. I think Destiny will be 30ps on XB1 and Scorpio (Even though I believe it could hit 60fps) so there's no advantage on one console over the other when playing together unlike PC. Even though https://twitter.com/XboxP3/... or https://twitter.com/XboxQwi... At the very leat I expect them(Bungie) to at least do PvP in 30fps because of Xbox One and maybe the rest of the game in 60fps on Scorpio but we'll see
If PS4 Pro can't run Destiny 2 at 60, same thing for Scorpio.
Scorpio is significantly more powerful than the PS4.
I don't think its about whether it can or not. Unlike PC, consoles are about consistency, and I believe the Pro and Scorpio can do this in 60. I think they'll cap it at 30fps to keep a consistent experience across the console ecosystem so a person on Xbox One for example can do PvP at 30 with people on Scorpio and not have that little advantage even though PC does it all the time. And Pro is not as optimized at the hardware level such as the Scorpio. I could careless what the Pro does though in my opinion because I don't play on PlayStation and PlayStation shouldn't effect what Xbox hardware does, unless there's some contract I don't know about where because Sony has marketing rights they wont make the game better on Xbox and achieve parity. I heard a lot about that random crap back then when Xbox One and PS4 first came out and people worried that .4TF will hold the PS back compared to 2TF now.
Quote : Its the deal between Sony and bungie most likely. .... Deal has nothing to do with development and Scorpio shitty CPU.
I wont believe that Destiny 2 cant do 60 fps on scorpio. Im not gullible. It already was done on a more demanding game like Battlefield 1. Do you not know how big Battlefield 1 is? The smoke effects and explosions are all over the place. Its like logic isnt good enough. Destiny 2 looks just like destiny 1 visually too.
It won't matter what you believe. We'll never know. The game will be 30fps on Scorpio. Whether it's because of any parity desired or demanded, or because the CPU is only slightly more powerful in the Scorpio so it'll run into the same bottleneck as the PS4P, we can discuss till the end of time. Personally, I believe that parity is a given, because the CPU issue is going to be present in the Scorpio as well. This is an issue of the developer opting for a CPU game, and the game being on systems with less than stellar CPU's. While other devs are running complex physics using GPU compute, Bungie opted for a better looking and capped performance. No matter what either of us believe, this remains true, and it's going to hinder the fps on both consoles in some ways. If you think that some customization can overcome this on a processor which is only about 9% faster, then you are just ignorant of how processors work. About the only way this could be done is if MS actually added in a co-processor to achieve such a thing. Physics aren't just some data packet that can suddenly be processed faster without some major customizations. GPU's are great physics processors, because graphics are physics at almost every level. Even if those calculations aren't physics themselves, the types of data they use, and the types of functions used, are exactly like physics calculations. This is why GPU compute is so good, because a weak GPU is stronger at physics than the most powerful CPU on the market. At no point in time have we seen anything that suggests that MS has added in an entire co-processor to handle this stuff at the CPU level, and I can't imagine any reason why it'd be necessary, or even practical from a price perspective, because a co-processor is more than just an optimization, it's a completely new processor which has to be designed, implemented, manufactured, and coded for. For a system that is meant to use GPU compute, it makes no sense to go through all that effort just to help out the rare console game that is CPU bound nowadays, and MS isn't so keen on getting PC ports that they'd bring that cost into the equation. It's like logic isn't good enough for you. I bring it. I bring actual technical knowledge on low level and extrapolate that to something relevant. You won't agree with it, nor will you be able to refute it with any kind of knowledgeable insight.
If Scorpio is shitty what is the PS4 Pro?
Yeah, Scorpio is so fast compared to the Xbox One, it can render four times the pixels per frame and double the frames per second! Nono, the beast Scorpio doesn't need 8 times the GPU power of the X1 to do that, it's magical! ----------------------------- ------------------------------ - -------- "I mean you dont have to be a rocket scientist to see that it could clearly run 60 fps." Oh wow, so much ignorance it's staggering! To double the framerate it means the GPU has to be able to do twice the work PER SECOND. To go from 1080p to 2160p it needs to render four times the amount of pixels per frame/PER SECOND! If Scorpio can run Destiny 2 easily at native [email protected] than it's processing 8 times the pixels PER SECOND than a regular Xbox One is. The Xbox One has a GPU of 1.31Tf, 8 times 1.31 = 10.48Tf... No amount of optimisations is going to make up that missing 4.48Tf... People really should learn more before they spout nonsense and get people's expectations way too high. Scorpio can run this at 60fps in 1080p if they wanted it to, heck even in 2160p checkerboard rendered, but not in native 4k. The Pro can run it just as easily in 60fps in 1080p as well, can do it at 60fps with perhaps 1800p checkerboarded. Also people are forgetting one huge thing! The CPU, many multiplatform games use the CPU for all kinds of calculations that need to be done between frames. This code is portable when you write it for the CPU, they could move it to the GPU but that can't be done in a portable way without adding layers of abstraction which slows things down. It would also mean there's less GPU power left for the graphics part. Bungie's engine uses the CPU for many of these things and it's the reason consoles can't go to 60fps with their engine at this moment. Scorpio's CPU is only what? 10% faster than the Pro's? It's not enough. Yes, it's a special CPU but the additions and optimisations are not meant for these types of calculations so it's still going to be an issue for Bungie's engine...
Dude we went back on forth here before but look at this Bungie Explains Why Destiny Is Not 60fps On The PS4 And Xbox One http://www.neogaf.com/forum... This was 3 years ago bungie saying because of last gen consoles it wasnt 60 fps. Its best to stop saying im ignorant and do your own research.
You seem to be super smart in knowing what the Scorpio is capable of. Can I ask, were you on the development team? Do you work for Bungie? How much code have you written for the system? Do you have a degree in mathematics? PS: I already know the answers to these questions.
@jason Haha, yeah, Scorpio defies all known technology and follows it's own set of rules, all the things people know how things work with GPUs and CPUs and development can be thrown out of the window since it consists entirely of never before seen parts! /s You don't need to have intimate knowledge of the Scorpio, just use your damn brain and even you can figure this out. Doubling fps comes at a cost from the GPU, why is it so damn hard to understand that. It's not free otherwise every damn game would be running 60fps or higher... Are all Xbox fans this dense or what?
Destiny 2 graphically isn't demanding game. PS4Pro could run it at 60 too.. But it can't because - Jaguar tech is the problem ( like in Scorpio ) and when you include PVP, it's much worse, BECAUSE your console is a SERVER. If you know better than Bungie, please enlighten us.
So what happen with COD Infinite Warefare on Ps4 Pro. It runs 60 fps. Call of Duty Infinite Warfare PS4/Xbox One/PS4 Pro Gameplay Frame-Rate Test https://www.youtube.com/wat... Your not making much sense here.
No it can't because the bandwidth is inadequate.