The Surge's Deck13: We're Not Remotely Close To Maxing PS4 Pro; Scorpio Could Run It at Native 4K@30

The folks at Deck13 talked PS4 Pro and Scorpio's respective hardware advantages, such as half-precision operations and additional RAM, respectively.

They also said that while The Surge will run at dynamic 4K@30FPS on PS4 Pro, Scorpio could manage native 4K@30.

[ccgr]

Great to hear! Wonder how a regular PS4 will do.

[Alexious]

1080P@30 (900P@30 on regular Xbox One).

[KaiPow]

I wonder if they can increase graphical fidelity at 1080p60 (or uncapped frame rate) on the Scorpio instead of focusing on 4k30

[Gaming_Cousin]

2k 60fps should be the standard

[Imp0ssibl3]

True, frame rate will always be far more important than resolution!

[Mostafeto]

60 fps should be the target for every developer and any resolution above 1080 is a bonus tbh

[Lennoxb63]

@Impossible @Mostafeto

Frame rate priority depends solely on the game. Certain games don't benefit from a higher frame rate. Some do.

[4Sh0w]

Nah it depends on the game, sometimes higher res lower framerate makes sense because it's not a fast pace game and the details of the environment are much more important.

[frostypants]

Nah, it should be up to the dev to decide what looks and works best for their title. It's like when people said all games should be 1080p and 60fps on PS4/One...I mean that'd be great, but what are you willing to give up in graphical fidelity to get there? Some games are better served by using that bandwidth for higher quality textures and effects.

[Alexious]

The game already has a 1080P@60 mode on PS4 Pro, so I'm guessing 1080P@60 on Scorpio could have better graphics with downsampling etc.

[GrubsterBeater]

I wish more games would have different graphic modes like NiOh did. Higher FPS with lower resolution mode, and lower FPS with higher resolution mode. It was nice to be able to switch, especially if I wanted to play high resolution for the game, and then turn it down for more demanding areas of the game.

Either way, I always prefer FPS over resolution any day, but it's nice to have the option.

[XiNatsuDragnel]

So Scorpio and Pro will equal for multi plats for most games?

[Festano]

Not really PS4 Pro actually runs the game at native 1620P, while they said Scorpio could probably do 2160P

[Athos]

Only if the developer does a really poor job. Scorpio has quite a power advantage over my PS4 Pro.

[LIGATURE]

Scorp is basically the next console gen or it would have stayed with only 8gb ram but its got 12gb.wonder if ps5 will have 16gb😂

[Sm00thNinja]

Did you not read the article? Dynamic is not native.

[LexHazard79]

How so...most likely the Pro is doing 1800p with checkerboard rendering upscaled to 4K. And Scoprio native 4K/30...so ita not equal.

[Aenea]

"1800p with checkerboard rendering upscaled to 4K"

You have no idea what checkerboard rendering is, do you?

In any case this game doesn't seem to be using it anyways, otherwise they could easily have done 2160p checkerboard rendered...

[Ju]

It would be to hard to click the link and actually read the article, huh? It runs native 1080@60 (performance mode) and native 1620p@30 (no CB). With CB they could either increase the FPS or resolution. It should shave of 1-2ms per frame at 1620p. They say they haven't maxed it out yet, I guess this is just how far they could push it with new HW.

[Obscure_Observer]

@Aenea

Hmm... all i see is Scorpio getting more and more native 4K support from devs which you said yourself it wouldn't be possible with a 6TF machine no matter what.

By you:

"Ehmm, the Scorpio is also not a true native 4k gaming machine. I know what MS said, but I also know what is technically possible with 6Tflops and that is not native 4k for most games... And no, the CPU and any other specs don't make it suddenly possible, it won't."

More Crow will be served at E3. ;)

[Ju]

All you see is "developers think the Scorpio can run this at native 4k@30". So far we haven't seen any other screen shot but FZ6, not even games running on it.

[Aenea]

@Obscure

Once ALL games are at native 4k, then you're right, until then I still am right in saying it's still not a 'true native 4k gaming machine'.

Tho have to admit it seems to be quite a bit easier to hit 4k than I anticipated so it will have more than I expected, still don't see all games coming out be native 4k tho, especially not all sub 900p games that are on X1 for instance and not even all 900p ones...

[Obscure_Observer]

@Aenea

"Once ALL games are at native 4k, then you're right, until then I still am right in saying it's still not a 'true native 4k gaming machine'."

Moving the goalposts? ALL games? Really? You said MOST games! You´re dead wrong and you can´t spin this!

Unlike the PS3 (which runs very few titles at 1080p) is the PS4 a true native 1080p machine? YES! Does it run ALL games at native 1080p? NO!

The same rules aplies to the Scorpio right? Right? So get off of your high horse! Just stop with this pathetic attemp at damage control and just admit you don´t know sh!t about the Scorpio. It´s clear that you don´t know what a 6TFlops console is capable of. Stop embarrassing yourself!

[its_JEFF]

If you two are just arguing about hitting "native 4K" you guys are both... smh. 4K Native doesn't mean jack shit if it's just PS4/X1 level graphics/worlds/ai but @ 4K. I don't know why gamers are so fixated on native 4K as the end all be all. It's as if it says Native 4K you'll get better sleep and if doesn't the other guy will sleep better. I swear it's just a shortsighted view and it's proof that the marketing has gotten to a lot of gamers.

[Aenea]

@Obscure

Okay, when more than 50% of all games on Scorpio run in native 4k then you're right... Let's wait for that shall we?

[JasonKCK]

My god dude! Even the title tells you no.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

@XiNatsuDragnel.... dat spin.

[Bigpappy]

Maybe cutscenes. Dynamic resolution means checkerboard and some things might be 4K. But no none of the games will not be equal except there like um maybe cuphead or something like that something simple.

[Aenea]

"Dynamic resolution means checkerboard"

No, it does not mean that! So all dynamic resolution games on the X1 use checkerboard rendering as well? Don't be silly!

Dynamic resolution means just that, dynamic, varying resolution. Of course theoretically it could be using native resolutions dynamically or checkerboarded ones but usually it means native ones.

[Liqu1d]

You would think these Xbox guys would know what dynamic resolution is considering how much they've experienced it. Much easier to spread misinformation and lies I guess.

[PFFT]

The Pro version is using Fake 4K resolution like with most of their games from here on out. No more no less. Moving on.

[Aenea]

@PFFT

I thought you Xbox fans said that fake 4k is checkerboarded? This game isn't using that, so there's no fake resolution being used....

[rando]

@ XiNatsuDragnel: <--- typical sony fanboy lol

[Cybermario]

oh interesting!

[JasonKCK]

Nothing wrong with dynamic 4k

LOL "best Souls-like game" Dark Souls is nothing more than Enclave by Starbreeze Studios.

[bluefox755]

So almost zero noticeable difference? I thought Scorpio games would be all 4k/60fps? Weird...

[Sm00thNinja]

That's because your thought process is messed up

[BigWan78]

@bluefox785

Did u even read the article?

The dev was just taking a guess on Scorpio (even admits that, they havent even touched a Scorpio dev kit)

[343_Guilty_Spark]

They are Scorpio virgins. Read article.

[S2Killinit]

I don't think you will see any difference for a long time between the Pro and scorpio. I think, by the time the power advantage actually results in a noticeable difference, the PS5 will be around the corner. Think about it, the Pro has been out for a year already, and it has not been maximized. It had a larger power gap compared to the OG PS4/XBO. So, it seems logical that the scorpio won't be producing anything spectacular over the Pro until some years later. By that time the PS5 is coming out. This is why it doesn't make economic sense for me to buy the scorpio right now.

[jasonpugh]

That's why the PS5 won't be around the corner. Pro has only been out about a year.

[BLKxSEPTEMBER]

So it begins....

[Bathyj]

Why 4k dynamic? Just checkerboard it. Checkerboard renders the exact same size pixels its just only doing half at a time and the other half are extrapolated images. Theres very little difference. Id rather see that then resolution going up and down.

Also if it can do 4knative@30fps on Scorpio would people prefer this or 4kCB@60fps? Just curious on what people would like to see as options.

Anyway, this just goes to show how power and hows its used will always be at the discretion of the devs and some may focus on any one area more than others, be it resolution, framerate, textures etc. But good to see its getting options with the 1080p@60fps or 4kDynamic@30fps modes on Pro.

[Automatic79]

@Bathyj

You trying to hard, just stop. Accept that the beast will be unleashed. if not stay away from Scorpio articles. You are going to be seeing this for the next three years.

[ILostMyMind]

Is this a Scorpio article?

[jaycptza]

Um he is not talking about the Scorpio... Moron, we know Scorpio will be 4K he is referring to why didnt they use Checkerboarding with the PS4 Pro, apparently youre trying really hard but have failed

[Ju]

It's not CB. They do a simple 1620p native framebuffer and some fp16 optimization (it's all in the article), but looking at frame time and pixelcount, I agree, this could make it to 1800CB@30 or even. 2160CB@30. They also said they haven't maxed out the Pro at all.

[Bathyj]

WTF are you talking about? You sound like a child talking like that. I asked a proper question, trying to incite conversation not controversy. Whether people would prefer the resolution or the frametrate. I get a fanboy reply. I dont even understand what youre getting at. Do you?

Im well aware Scorpio is going to be better hardware than Pro. I have no problems with that, Im actually looking forward to it. Ive even defended it in this very article. Grow up and make a proper point or dont talk to me.

[Aenea]

Even though checkerboard rendering is a fantastic technique it's not so easy to add it into existing game engines so it is easier to go with a below 2160p native resolution and upscale the old fashioned way instead.

[Bigpappy]

Every thing you say here makes sense. I would like to see what checkerboard@60 looks like for the game before I make that call. Having said that, I don't think you will see checkerboard used on the Scorpio as much as you see it on the Pro. The reasoning behind that, is that it seems relatively easy to hit 4K on Scorpio and that the need to spend the extra time working to get the optimal resolution to checkerboard would not be there for most. That would be another factor for developers to consider when deciding if they will even support the higher resolution on the pro, or just stay with 1080p. It all depends on the amount of effort needed. that was one of the reasons X1 had so many sub 900p games (no one wanted to put the time in to work with esRAM when PS4 was so much easier). Now 4K on Scorpio seems to be streamlined and checkerboard more work.

[Bathyj]

yeah you could be right. Checkerboard might actually be more effort than native. But what I'm getting at is would it be worth it to get 60fps? Many would say yes I think. Anyway I'm glad these new machines are getting options usually only for PC. They can still keep it simple but give you the choice. I think rise of the Tombraider in Pro paved the way for this.

[fatbastard11]

"The beast has been unleashed"

30 fps lol

[Prince_TFK]

Anything is better than checkerboard 4k, i'll say.

Off topic, the spam on this site keep increasing days by days. I wish the moderators would have a system to detect spams and mark them immediately.

[Ju]

Why? Because the Internet says so I suppose?

[BigWan78]

@fatbastard...

He also just took a guess considering he hasnt even touched a scorpio dev kit...

[Bathyj]

Dude, dont do that. Its up to the dev how they spend the power. Hes speculating for his game and his game only. Obviously not every game is going to hit 4k@60fps. It depends on the game. Also its clearly going to be a step up from the Pro version regardless of where it lands so I dont see why youre laughing. Its like someone beat you in a race but failed to get the world record. They still beat you.

[fatbastard11]

I'm laughing at how XBOT fangirls kept saying it's a 4k 60 fps beast based off of that one Forza demo

[PlayableGamez-]

xbone scorpio can't do 60fps
so called "uncompromised 4k experience" is out the window.

[JasonKCK]

Meanwhile in reality the native 4k experience is still there, because... well... it's still in 4k.

Doh!

[Kiwi66]

Yet its 30fps on the PS4 Pro also, so whats your thoughts on that "uncompromised 4k experience"

[gangsta_red]

This game looks like a blast. A sci-fi dark souls game is all the reason i need to check this out.

[Bathyj]

how refreshing, someone talking about the actual game.

[subtenko]

shots fired at the scorpio! (or boot raised, w/e you wanna call it)

[objdadon]

I'll be playing whatever mode is 60fps thanks

[corroios]

Wait for both version running and then talk. Some gamers are gonna have a big surprise. The rez diference on 4k tv will have less impact then the original models. But the frame rate will always have a major impact.

The main diference will be that the image on the pro will be more soft like df already show on games running 4k on pc and the pro. There isnt no night and day diference. And the pro is a 399 2016 console.

If all games run at 60 frames and 4k and with high on effects that would be amazing, but a jag cpu isnt powerfull enough

[Einhander1971]

Let's be honest PS4 and Scorpio are stunning pieces of kit. Have both and enjoy. I already have PS4, SWITCH, next stop Scorpio.

[kevnb]

meaningless pr banter.

[cyclindk]

Question is, will Micro have deals with as many devs as possible to push the higher fidelity assets as well? Does Sony have this with every dev for Pro-enhanced games? Does it depend on the developer?

[Bigpappy]

Many developer will do it just because others are and they want to show their games in the best light. Don't have to make deals with all developer. Many will already have 4K assets on the PC version. It they used DX12 or win10, it should be simple to port to Scorpio.

[S2Killinit]

I think by the time the scorpio's power advantage results in any significant difference over the PS4Pro, the PS5 will be around the corner.

[Father__Merrin]

30fps is perfect in a game like this as long as frame times are spot on, i think the game is looking pretty good tbh

[Maxor]

Not close to maxing the Pro but can't run at 4K 60 FPS....so they're either shit devs or the Pro is maxed.

Which is it?

[Trilithon]

Yah?! work harder then...

[PFFT]

BOOOOM! There you have it.

[jasonpugh]

So now it's moving from arguments about resolution to fps. I wondered when that would happen considering the resolution arguments fate has been sealed.