Project Scorpio’s Compatibility With Xbox One Can Limit How Its Technology Is Utilized, Says Dev

The Xbox Scorpio is shaping up to be the most powerful console ever and with new information on the horizon, it's interesting to know what game developers think about it.

[XiNatsuDragnel]

Well it's kinda of obvious

[donthate]

Yeah it is, and it applies to PS4 and PS4 Pro too. Kind of a pointless article.

[skydragoonityx]

Nailed it

[MasterCornholio]

However the PS4 Pro and PS4 are not there far apart in terms of power. But the difference between Scorpio and Xbox One is huge.

[S2Killinit]

Well is it a new console generation or not?

[Artemidorus]

They want clicks for money.

[Trekster_Gamer]

PS4 ps4pro just about the same machine people are clueless fanboys here

[TheKingKratos]

Donthate

No, because ps4 pro and pro are pretty much the same other than the stronger GPU they still have the same Cpu/Ram that's why you see no ps4 gamer angry whatever they own ps4pro or ps4 because no one left behind getting the same graphics settings but at highrt res so no one complain

Scorpio is pretty much far stronger than xboxone in Gpu/ram/cpu
So yeah not the same thing
i keep saying it over and over Microsoft made a huge upgraded system that almost feel like next gen to xboxone and xbox owners who are not upgrading will end up feeling left behind when it comes to graphics.

[Evan_Beezy]

Not really. Cerny kept it more straightforward by literally adding in another entire GPU alongside the current one and described it like the other wing of a butterfly in order to keep development streamlined. Very different than replacing it with another single GPU with a different architecture and a huge power gap.

[TheCommentator]

Evan, MS says Scorpio is using the same architecture as XB1.

[Aenea]

@evan

Cerny said "it's like adding a second GPU", *like*, it's not actually what they did! They created a custom GPU core with twice the compute units, higher clockrate AND added a bunch of new features to it that weren't present in the PS4 GPU.

Also, read up what "architecture" means, in this case what's important that it's still x86 with an AMD GPU. That either of them is a newer model doesn't mean it's a new 'architecture'...

[freshslicepizza]

cerny said the ps4 pro has 2 gpu's.

http://www.theverge.com/201...

"For the more than 700 or so existing PS4 games, Cerny said the goal was to ensure those titles played smoothly no matter what. That’s why the Pro incorporates an identical GPU. Because the new console has "the old GPU next to a mirror version of itself," Sony can support existing games with a simple trick: "We just turn off the second GPU," he said."

as for project scorpio what it can get away with is vr games and not being limited to the regular xbox one. vr requires much higher frame rates and this is one drawback to sony's approach and vr because it needs to also be at parity with the regular ps4. that means ps4 pro owners also get restrictions in games like driveclub which needs a lower car count and lower graphic details for the game to run at higher frame rates. if they made it only for the ps4 pro that would not have happened. this is also likely to restrict some games like fallout 4 which will require lots of horsepower that the xbox one and ps4 wouldn't likely be able to run well enough.

[mikeslemonade]

Considering Scorpio is about 4 times stronger than the Xbox 720p, the devs don't need a perfect port. Just toss it on the system and it will run at 720p and 900p without much issue.

[bouzebbal]

don't understand why it will limit technology.
isn't it why PC gamers are so happy about? To play most 3rd party games in superior version?

[QUIMICOMORTAL]

Sure, but ps4 pro isnt 4 times more powerful than ps4 and scorpio wont definetly cost only $100 more than x1. See tha diference?

[donthate]

It's amazing to me that there is so much confusion around this. The games as a basis is supposed to work on Xbox One and PS4 period. That means it doesn't matter how much more powerful your PS4 Pro, Scorpio or PC is, it starts at XB1/PS4.

In fact, if the game targets PC, it will include the lowest specced PC as well into the mix.

I also want to add that there are few games if any that can't be reduced to work on lower end hardware today and still substantially get the same experience.

[iplay1up2]

Not really, the difference in power between XBS and XB1 is WAY different than PS4 and PRO.!!! XBS is going to smoke XB1 and Pro!!

[XtraTrstrL]

We knew this from the get-go, when PS4 Pro was first announced. This issue was brought up a whole lot back then.

[UltraNova]

It turned out that most of us exagerated (myself included) as games running on both the OG ps4 and pro are running great with just rez and sometimes fps difference in favor of the latter, as expected. But thats simply because the gap in power is not that great to be an issue, something we cant say for the xb1 and scorpio since the power gap is far bigger, next gen bigger infact.

We will see how this will turn out by the end of 2017.

[XtraTrstrL]

@UltraNova
Well, to be fair, yeah, Project Scorpio is like 4.5x more raw power in Tflops than the stock X1, but the PS4 Pro is still more than 2x the Tflops of PS4. That's still a good jump that could be visualized best probably without the backwards compatibility requirement.

[rainslacker]

@Ultra

In the end, it's only going to be mostly graphical differences. Either quality of graphics or frame rates, maybe some effects.

The core game design will stay the same, thus not really requiring much more power. Truthfully, adding in massive amounts of CPU power would likely go to waste in most cases due to the lowest common denominator being the basis for the technicalities of the game design itself. This is the underlying stuff which will stay the same, and will be limited.

There are of course limitations that may come up to making bigger levels, more advanced AI, and so forth, but likely with the way games are designed today, it won't be much of an issue.

Overall, GPU is really the only place to make big changes. The memory architecture will make things run smoother between the two. The size of memory may go to waste at times, but it could also be used for higher quality textures.

So overall, no real limitation, because game design isn't advancing as fast as the hardware is. It's the graphics which change. For the most part, almost all game designs for today's games could be achieved on last gen processors as well, because there hasn't been that much of an advancement on the back end of the design.

So, while the older hardware is limiting, it doesn't mean the games won't run better on the newer hardware....but it does also mean that the full potential of the hardware may never be realized if forward compatibility is required or implemented.

[Nu]

This could potentially hurt Microsoft financialy

[XanderZane]

Joke of the day.
https://media.giphy.com/med...

[NatFanBoyRestricted]

Nope, Pc 4k version.

[XanderZane]

Devs will start at the top with the most powerful and work their way down to the lower spec systems, just like they do with PC's. Most developers have already said this 1/2 a dozen times already. Not sure why this article was even needed.

[yarbie1000]

Gamingbolt....that's all you really need to know. What are the odds that if i click on the article they'll be talking to some dev no ones heard of who works on games you've never heard of?

[dcbronco]

True. Also what are the odds a bunch of fanboys that normally rail against gamingbolt with anything remotely positive about Microsoft will now proclaim gamebolt profits. But educated gamers , like some above, will know attaching it to Xbox One limits it on anything but graphics for the most part.

[rainslacker]

No need to click. This is what I've been saying since the first hint of mid-gen upgrades started making the rounds.

Anyone with half a brain, and a basic knowledge of game design could tell you that the lowest common denominator is always the limiting factor.

[christocolus]

@Yarbie

And you are right.

[Thatguy-310]

What's the point of offering a powerful console when you can't take advantage of it?? The power between the ps4 and the pro isn't a lot but from what MS has said the power difference between xbox one and Scorpio is huge. Really curious to see how they'll handle the console in the market.

[OMGitzThatGuy]

Since most X1 games will be on PC then it wont be much of a problem since the PC already requires higher quality assets. Scorpio will only require optimizations to hit locked framerates.

[Aenea]

But they still can't do things on Scorpio/PC that can't be done on the X1, that IS the limiting factor!

All you're talking about has to do with graphics (framerate, resolution) which is probably what this dev means by limiting how the power is used.

Think about better AI being possible with a more powerful machine, but if the game can't do that on the X1 than they won't implement it like that.

[OMGitzThatGuy]

@Aenea with the hardware in the current consoles, and even last gen, AI is not bound by power, it is bound by the devs. It is easier to make a character perform certain actions under certain scenarios but the work required makes the devs think it is not worth it. AI in games is literally "If X happens, do this" or "If X happens, do this, or this, or this" and that usually takes more work in the animation department and can create bugs. More power doesn't mean better AI. Better devs mean better AI. Unless you are talking about RTS like games with thousands of AI being run at a time but even then the AI is not complex, just sheer numbers.

[spicelicka]

I believe that the compatibility will only be temporary. I think that was more of a selling point by both Sony and MS to assure gamers that they won't be forced to ditch their current consoles. After a transition stage they can easily change their policies, it's happened before.

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

Why is it that gamingbolt and thisgengaming's junk articles keep getting approved so readily? Those two sites, are basically the archetype of every wrong with modern game journalism.

[Muzikguy]

I've been wondering that as well. It's like all of N4G has been those 2 sites alone (even though it hasn't), but it makes it harder to come here at times. Thy must have an entire gang of bad journalists and theorists to just keep creating bad articles and put them here.

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

Some of the articles getting approved, have no real writing what so ever. Some are only a paragraph (or two) long, or are made up of a header, a tweet and a reply. There so many random sites getting approved as well. It is almost like people are making sites just to get clicks, with no ethics. Wannabe journalist don't care about integrity, factual accuracy or even writing skill. The write the same thing over and over again, write fake reviews and try to be as click bait as possible.

[Artemidorus]

Trollingbolt using that 'dev' title in it's propaganda messages.

[Muzikguy]

They always do 😕. Everyone with something to say is a developer

[mkis007]

ReGard less of source, this is obvious...just as it is with pro. You can't really explore the consoles power. Just look at how mulitplats pc versions have been held back by consoles to know. Ps2 to ps3 saw a huge tangible gamechanging jump in what was possible in a game. We just don't have that big of a jump here.

[i3eyond the Circle]

I don't think this is 100% true tho.

Why because I believe Microsoft is working on a solution to maintain Xbox One/Scorpio compatibility while the Scorpio counterpar can shine using cutting edge tools or "boosts" to possibly bump to 4K resolutions at max FPS for certain titles made with Xbox One in mind first.

Don't sleep on the software giant yet... people are judging MS when they haven't even played the good cards yet

[Aenea]

It's not about using the power for graphics, it's about not being able to use the power to do other things in the game, for instance a better AI, better physics, etc. If the X1 (or PS4) is not capable of that better AI/physics/etc. they are not including it.

In that regard devs are limited to only use the power for graphics...

[starchild]

But lets be real, the great majority of games are not pushing boundaries in those areas. Most games this generation can easily run on any of the principal platforms (XB1, PS4 and PC). The difference comes down to how good the games look and run on each platform.

Hell, most current games would probably work on last gen consoles as well, mostly requiring visual downgrades along with a few other cutbacks in some cases. It would require more work, but it could be done.

Any current gen game can be made to run on any of the three principal platforms with little issue.

[Aenea]

@starchild

"Any current gen game can be made to run on any of the three principal platforms with little issue."

Perhaps that is because they design their games around them. I don't know for sure if game ideas had to be changed to make them work on this gen consoles, but neither can you. That they don't push boundaries can be because they couldn't do it. Besides, even if you don't see it, they still might actually be pushing the boundaries of what was possible.

And your claim that most games would've worked on last gen, well, perhaps, but maybe they have to sacrifice graphics so much that it would be a pixel art game :)
Okay, that might be too exaggerated but you get what I mean I hope...

[rainslacker]

It's not so much about what could be run, or if it could run on last gen, because it is true that underlying game designs haven't changed at all since last gen.

But to make my point, I'm going to use a simple example.

Let's look at a racing game. We'll take out all the nifty features first and boil it down to a few basics.

So, what are the basics of a racing game?

1. Physics for car handling
2. Opponent AI
3. Physics for other things
4. Graphics
5. Content(car models, tracks, etc).

So, 1-3 are unlikely to change between powerful hardware. Those are the parts that aren't going to improve with more hardware power, because it would be too time consuming to build two different game design models.

Graphics can easily improve. Increase in modeling detail. Increase in texture quality. Better lighting and filters. Etc. All these things are what all those sliders in PC games are for, and it's pretty apparent those kinds of things are easy enough to implement with today's engines.

5. Content may change, but how often does that happen? Content can mean, are they going to have more opponent cars on the track? Are they going to have more camera views? Things like that. Again though, those kinds of additions with more power are quite rare.

In this one though, with Scorpio, adding in VR support could be an option.

But lets get back to 1-3.

What can change in that game design that's simple enough to not require a lot of resources on the development side? The answer is, not that much, because it really means making a new game.

Because of this, the lowest common denominator is what's limiting improvements in game design. It probably won't matter for the most part right now, because game design isn't moving forward that fast. It is possible to implement special features that could take advantage of that power, but realistically, how many people are going to care that much in today's graphics driven world?

This whole idea of lowest common denominator is much easier to follow and understand when one learns to separate graphics from game design, because they are not intrinsically linked, although one can affect the other at times.

[Sm3000]

Cant wait for MS to drop the duece

[bluefox755]

Of course it will. Which makes the smaller step from PS4 to PS4 Pro more sensible. Less wasted power.

[Bathyj]

You guys act like new hardware will usher in fantastic magical worlds that arent possible on earlier versions. Even generational jumps barely do that. 90% of games out today could be made on PS3 and X360. Yeah the graphics would be dumbed down, they might not run as smooth, but the game could be done. Im struggling to think of many games that couldnt. Maybe Horizon and I only say that because of the enemies and the amount of destructible hit points and their animation and behaviour is so good, but even thats is arguable.

XBONE and PS4 are not going to hold back Scorpio and Pro as much as you like to imagine. They will still basically be the same games. Huge advances is gaming come from innovative original ideas no more has thought of before, no a bump in GPU and RAM, Often the advance in hardware can lead devs to do something they couldnt before, like games going 3D and using polygons instead of sprites, but they are powerful enough now that they can make what they like already. And incremental increase, even a large one is not going usher in new mechanics or genres, clever devs will.

[Aenea]

More power means one can include better AI, better physics, etc., but when you can't implement those on the X1/PS4 then they are limited to only use the power for graphics.

You say most games could be done on previous gen, you wonder if Horizon could have, well, the things you mention all need to be calculated, you need power for that, not sure last gen consoles would be able to do such a thing with ease...

[annoyedgamer]

This isn't clickbait...this is advanced clickbait.

[BigWan78]

Dumb article...

People honest think a mega billion dollar software company hasn't considered all the variables and what can go wron...

[Inzo]

To answer your question I refer you to MS E3 press conference 2013 Xbox1 reveal.

[BigWan78]

@Inzo...

and NONE of those moments at E3-2013 were with game compatibility issues...

[Gwynbleidd]

I don't get it either. Ken Lobb answered that weeks ago:

"What's new is we've figured out how to write software in such a way that it can be better, but still be forward and backward compatible," Lobb explained. "The Xbox One S is a good version of this. It's better than the One. It's, you know, less than 10 percent better, but it's better, and that kind of thing was sort of impossible when you go back to the Super NES. We couldn't have shipped a 10 percent faster Super NES. Most of the games would have broken. They would have run at a different clock rate, and things would have melted down."
He added: "The way we do software development today makes it possible. How can a PC game run on a laptop and on a Titan X? How is that possible? Well, because developers over the last 15 years-plus have figured out how to make their games scale with hardware. So it's not rocket science"

https://www.gamespot.com/ar...

[Inzo]

"and NONE of those moments at E3-2013 were with game compatibility issues..."

And neither is your comment and if it was then you need to learn to be more specific. You are moving the goal posts to suit yourself.

[BigWan78]

@Inzo...

look at the title of the post... matter of fact go and actually read the article..

then look at my post... i would say my comments in tune to the subject at hand..

pretty sure the "goal post" are in the same spot...

[Miss_Weeboo]

Yup, and then they gonna cut lose the Xbnrs

[hiawa23]

Just like the PS4 Pro and PS4, the games have to run on x1 as well as Scorpio so it kind of goes without saying that the console may not be fully utilized, but this is necessary. Given what we have seen with the Pro's improvement over the PS4 I am okay with this. I can't wait to enjoy my games on the Scorpio.

[BIGBOSS08]

Its obvious Microsoft will eventually dump the xbox one. With the scorpio they want to get as far away as possible from the xbox one. The scorpio will have a completely different name too. theres no way they'll keep the xbox one branding with it. This is a fresh start for them imo. They'll continue to support the xb1 for a little while longer before they dump it.

[Bathyj]

Thats a tough call. Scorpio isnt going to sell big numbers. Its the premium product. The cheap version cant sell 10 million a year, how is the expensive one going to? Especially when you consider XBOne S will probably get a price drop. I wouldnt expect Scorpio to sell 5m in the first year. There will be an initial launch surge but a lot of them will be current XBOne owners.

So given that how do they turn their backs on the 30 odd million by that time XBOne owners that are buying games and concentrate on 5m Scorpio owners? It would be suicide. Microsoft are painting themselves into an interesting corner. They are going to split their own userbase if that dump one over the other.

[BIGBOSS08]

Than what is the point of the scorpio than? Why make such a powerful console if that power will never be fully used because of being held back by the xbox one? I think they will start releasing scorpio only games eventually. Xbox one sales are most likely slowing and getting even worse. It isn't competing with the ps4 at all. Ps4 is just increasing its lead further and further. You think microsoft don't know that the xbox one is a major flop? Microsoft are desperate to start winning again and they won't even get close to by keeping the xbox one around.

[ILostMyMind]

@BIGBOSS08
To make xbots happy on console war forums.

[hiawa23]

I can't wait to enjoy my games on the Scorpio. I don't get the continued hatred of MS. Many claim the base PS4 and X1 are not powerful enough, and MS and Sony are correcting that and some gamers are still not happy. I am happy as a console only gamer with this.

[rainslacker]

No one is speaking with one voice on behalf of the entire community. You have some that are content, some that aren't, some that hate, and some that accept. Then you have some that while they weren't happy before, also aren't happy with the way the corrections are being handled.

Ultimately, there will be those that always complain. I tend to try and just stick to the topic without getting too invested in being pissed, unless I'm actually annoyed or upset about something. I have my moments though, like everyone.

[hiawa23]

Well said, I can certainly respect that. I keep games simple, I just play them on what console platform they are available, no attachments. I hope all three of the console makers do well, as that is best for a healthy gaming community.

[Sy_Wolf]

In other news, water wet and sky blue.

[Mr_Luke]

Yes, ok but i'm waiting a 180° from Microsoft. If the console doesn't sell well, new games "only for xxxx (the real name of Scorpio" will appear. I'm ready to bet on that.
Maybe i'm wrong but i'm foreseeing that.

[inxine]

just weird to me that they actually developed such a powerful console, no plans for exclusives for it, and limit the potential of the console at the same time, like what? whos gonna buy an overpriced version of x1? sure sony did the same thing with the pro but the power-gap/price isnt all that huge, but seriously lol they talk about the console like its gonna change the gaming industry but its still stuck on the backwards thing. most of Microsofts decisions just make no sense

[LastCenturyRob]

This might be the case for lower end devs, but those with higher end games will fully utilize what's available to them. If that wasn't the case all the third party games that came out on X1 at 720p or 900p would have ran the same on PS4 and PC...that wasn't the case and there will be a huge difference that goes further than just resolution on the Scorpio over the X1.

[rainslacker]

Yeah, because the majority of higher end devs have proven to us over the years that they always take the extra effort to optimize for the hardware fully, and don't cut corners to speed along development.

Only games which are likely to really take advantage of any extra power beyond graphics is going to be exclusives. Even then, it's questionable just how far, because even Sony's 1st party, which rank among some of the best in the world, haven't really gone to that much effort for PS4P. And these are from the console makers who have incentive to make the hardware more appealing.

[rpgenius420]

Lol the games will scale like on PC. You people are lame. Games will be made and Scorpio will play them at the best settings and xbox one will play them at low settings lol. Just like PC. Buy the beefy premium system like you would a premium home made or beast PC. All you people are taking things the wrong way. No one is missing out. If you have the cash you get the better system just like PC.

[Inzo]

There you have it. When I said this a few weeks ago, the disagrees flowed in. These are the words that will have almost every Xbox1 owner up in arms, "This game will be exclusive to the Xbox Scorpio(or whatever its name will be)". It will happen sooner rather than later.

[Captain_Tom]

I mean yeah. This thing is roughly 5x stronger than the X1.

Before anyone sees that as amazing, they should keep in mind that the X1 was (is) woefully underpowered for an 8th generation console (only 6 times stronger than it's predecessor, instead of 12x stronger like the PS4).

This really should just be called the "XBOX Two" or whatever. They can keep backwords compatibility easily, but they need to rebrand and fully upgrade their graphics NOW.

[SH1ELD]

By his logic, all other platforms should also be affected by Xbox One.

[blade206]

It's funny when it was hhg they blocked him but these guys can stay forever

[mogwaii]

Just like the pro.
Wonder what they're gonna officially call scorpio.

[DJStotty]

The scorpio wont be held back in any way. Games are developed the same as normal targeting the xbox one sku and then additional assets etc patched for the scorpio version. as with PS4 pro. Neither system will be held back

[Maxor]

MS need the Scorpio to go head to head with Sony. When this thing release, it will be the only advantage team Xbox can field. "The most powerful console ever" is their tag line. They'll need games specifically designed to flex the power of this console. If MS is gonna let legacy hardware hold them back like Sony did with the Pro then it's curtains.

[Gwynbleidd]

Clickbait! The dev has not worked with Scorpio:

Ken Lobb already explained how they get around that "problem":

"What's new is we've figured out how to write software in such a way that it can be better, but still be forward and backward compatible," Lobb explained. "The Xbox One S is a good version of this. It's better than the One. It's, you know, less than 10 percent better, but it's better, and that kind of thing was sort of impossible when you go back to the Super NES. We couldn't have shipped a 10 percent faster Super NES. Most of the games would have broken. They would have run at a different clock rate, and things would have melted down."
He added: "The way we do software development today makes it possible. How can a PC game run on a laptop and on a Titan X? How is that possible? Well, because developers over the last 15 years-plus have figured out how to make their games scale with hardware. So it's not rocket science"

https://www.gamespot.com/ar...

[frostypants]

Clickbait piece offering nothing of substance. Opinion of obscure dev.

IT'S GAMINGBOLT!

Looks like they changed up their formula by keeping the dev name anonymous in the headline, so it didn't seem quite so lame until you open it. Clever.

[Amongunz]

No matter what the policy is here, there are going to complaints.... for the xbox people its a tough spot... for the ps4 people just waiting to jump on it.. ill save you time if compatibility policy remains: "this is bad for xbox" -ps4 faboy says in the future. If compatibility policy is changed to allow exclusives: this is bad for xbox" - same ps4 fanboy says in the future.

[gedden7]

Super obvious as it is worthless to buy until they make game EXCLUSIVELY for Scorpio... Arguably the Pro falls under this same issue.

[yomfweeee]

Depends on the price. Pro certainly isn't worthless to buy. You get an enhanced version of the game. The system only costs $100, it is worth it for a lot of people.

[gedden7]

Good points, but its enhanced, barely... If the ALL or MAJORITY of the games don't get a framerate boost to me its worthless. All games should be running at 60 AT LEAST by 1080p. But they are playing the marketing game of this 4k "forced" craze...

[KillBill]

"The easiest and best thing for Microsoft to do will be to allow developers to make Scorpio exclusives, and leverage all of its power effectively. As of right now, there is no indication that will happen- but with the Scorpio’s reveal coming up at E3, I can hope that that changes." - author Pramath.

And that is why this guy has no clue what he is talking about. The entire point of what MS is doing with Scorpio and what Sony did with PS4 Pro was simply offer a 4K/VR capable alternative machine that could improve on what they have to offer now. If MS was to allow Scorpio only titles then it would segregate the current player base. This in not a new generation system, just an upgrade to current Generation.

[Kyizen]

Been saying this for a while, either MS breaks its promise thay every game developed will run on the OG Xbox One or the Scopio's power is wasted.

[psychosmurf101]

It could be something more along the PC realm maybe? I have a beast PC that plays gorgeous games but other PC players with less powerful rigs can play the same games. More notibly the xbox one has some similar architecture. So there could be graphical settings on scorpio that could account for this?

[Einhander1971]

The more i think about Scorpio the more I think Microsoft will drop the xbone like a brick. Hopefully not but with such a power difference it's seems likely.

[DAEMONIFEAR]

PS4Pro doesn't get PC ports like the scorpio will so if anything other then 4k30/60 pc assets are used then the devs are to blame for cheaping out on their title which is the norm for the industry it's not the consoles fault or MS for devs being lazy! But Scorpio is going to have real upgrades graphically unlike PS4Pro with just a resolution bump!

[slavish0]

Why is this a approved article? Just says something about this site Imo