Refunds, Ignorance & Yooka-Laylee writes:

''Fresh from Jon ‘JonTron’ Jafari’s removal from Yooka-Laylee, the world of internet debate has been more than fierce. A number of outlets have reported on various aspects of the story, some forgetting to remove their person stances on the topic.''

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PlayableGamez-2186d ago

Boycott warriors are the worst...

Sono4212185d ago

I think you mean the best? Especially in this instance, did they have the right to fire him? Yes of course, but firing someone over stating facts in a debate is ludicrous. I mean if he was spewing random hate speech sure, but facts in a debate? Cmon can we quit being snowflakes already. Now whats the best way to show them they messed up? Hit them where it hurts.. boycott their game.

DasTier2186d ago

Meh, i might not agree with what he said, but it feels excessive to remove him for his opinions.

I would bet 95% of people who were going to buy this didn't even know he was involved in the voice acting to begin with...

NecoTehSergal2186d ago

Of the millions of his fans - it's quite clear that many of them knew, and that many were drawn to the kickstarter because of Jons' messages and assisting in advertising the game and the kickstarters' existence to his fans.


NecoTehSergal2185d ago

@Gecksta - Jontrons' channel has 3+ Million, he has Million(s) of Fans....

This ain't rocket science.

Sono4212185d ago

This is what people are not understanding, he was not fired over his opinions (although that is the claim) He was fired for saying a statistic (Fact) during a debate, which is ludicrous. He said more rich black people commit crimes than poor white people, which is not a study he conducted but a different party, he simply restated their findings and is now being crucified for it. Absolutely bonkers. People are so sensitive these days it's pathetic. I think his response video is brilliant. He talks about how the mainstream media are the ones also categorizing us into groups (which they do) but then when we talk about these topics of categorization they put us on the cross. The reason the topic was even brought up in the debate is obviously because it is in mainstream media otherwise it would not be a talking point. Just idiotic, and anyone who thinks he's in the wrong might as well go back to the bubble they came from.

opinionated2186d ago (Edited 2186d ago )

"Play-Tonic where more than within their rights to remove Jafari from the game. They chose to remove him from the game on the basis of political beliefs, consumers have the right to remove their money from the game for the same reason. It’s a prime example of how quickly things can change when creators become political."

Yes. Exactly.

You start off by saying "people getting denied refunds isn't true" but you don't show anything that people got banned for on steam and the official forums. I agree with your civility statement (although people get refunds by being an asshole everyday, ask a customer service person). Maybe these people were told to fuck off about a refund and had a reason to talk shit. Banned from the steam forums and then went to the official forums like wtf. I can understand that.

I have never seen so many businesses tell their customers to eat shit than gaming companies. Their customer service must be the easiest job in the world, you just have to be a leftist prick activist. Let's hope they actually have a good game lol. You bring up the bioware guy talking shit but it's clear that bioware is now hiring people based on their political beliefs instead of talent. Their political beliefs are so hollow that it turned bioware into a shell of its former self. Activism is not a replacement for programming, storytelling, etc. We can all see the politicization of gaming and the vast majority of us don't like it.

PixelGateUk2186d ago

All of the post on the official forums are removed after the banning. The info was sourced from team Team 17 CM's. As for Steam, it's very hard reaching the mods from those pages. They often do not reply to messages or simply give a copy and pasted reply from guidelines, hence the lack of inclusion there. As for Manveer Heir, he no longer works at Bioware and has went Indie. I will not be covering any of his work.

We can all see the politicization of gaming and the vast majority of us don't like it. - i agree. I do think politics has a place in most creative media, but it shouldn't be there to act as a division between people. I don't agree with either JonTron or Heir, but i do not think its correct to punish one and blissfully ignore the other. If one political belief leads to someone being accountable, then that same approach should carry over to others. The media has cherry picked based on who they disagree with too much

opinionated2186d ago

I don't think bioware is going to be around much longer honestly. They will get let-go or dissolved into the remaining studios. That's what politics gets you!

Politics does have a place in games but not the process. My favorite game is bioshock and that's a roast on any rand individualism. I am an individualist but I still understand it's downfalls. The bioshock games are highly political but you wouldn't know ken Levine is a radical leftist unless you looked for it. His political writing is well done and I appreciate it even though we don't agree ideologically. He didn't politicize the process of making his game.

I agree on the cherry picking as well.

davand1142186d ago

Companies are allowed to punish or terminate a contract with someone if they say offensive things that violate the companies policy, beliefs, or makes them look bad. Playtonic had the right to fire jt and take him out of the game. IMO bioware should have fired that person that was saying racist shit about white people; there is no room in the workplace for shit like that. Racism should not be allowed in any workplace, period.

PixelGateUk2186d ago

The problem with Bioware was how spread they became. After being bought up, they had various smaller studios pop up, and then the MASSIVE undertaking that was the Old Republic. The sheer costs of the game, and EA's drive for high sales and profit (which is fine given its a major player) forced Bioware down the road of making games by checklists. All of a sudden, you can tick of popular trends found in their games. Open worlds, mmorpg-like structure, crafting etc etc

For a 'first' effort, Bioware Montreal have a fairly good foundation with andromeda, but the is clearly not ready for release. The script is very poor too.

As for the media, they all tend to sing from the same book, it does no surprise me that they'll go for the throat when it comes to people with differing beliefs. That's just the current climate at the moment. I just wish more people would talk rather than attack tbh

davand1142186d ago

Bioware should have never tried to make mass effect a open world game.

opinionated2186d ago (Edited 2186d ago )

I always thought it was because their talent left. I remember seeing the bioware veterans leave in droves during andromeda. I have a sneaking suspicion it was due to the political nature engulfing the studio. I think the same thing happened to naughty dog (although they can still make good games).

That's the thing about politics, it's hard to have a civil discussion. That's why we have governments that go yell at each other in congress or parliaments.

Everybody is political, politics are just your core beliefs. When you start telling somebody that their core beliefs are wrong, they tend to not take that very well. The difference is that our political discussions have changed. It's not longer the ultra-selfishness of radical individualism vs the ultra-selflessness of radical collectivism. It's not white nationalism vs the intersectional revolutionaries. There are discussions to be had on these topics with pros and cons for each (and they were all done by bioshock before it was "cool")lol. Politics now are identity politics and they are not built for discussion. Now it's "if you don't agree with me you are a racist, bigot, homophobe, xenophobic and you need to be crushed". This has created a polarizing environment and the media has played a large part in this lack of discussion.

davand1142186d ago

There isn't any real evidence that Bioware is hiring people because of political beliefs; they just made a bad game. Never back kickstarter because you are not guaranteed your money back. There were guys that made a kickstarter for a game and used the money hookers and blow.

opinionated2186d ago

Don't misunderstand. I fully respect the right of a company to fire who it wishes. I'm against the media campaigns that caused it. If major media publications have a smear campaign on somebody and a company releases them due to "portrayal" then I have a problem with the media obviously. And outrage from places like neogaf and twitter obviously. The refund thing is a separate issue. He wasnt speaking for the company, he was speaking for himself. I hate the boycott mentality on both sides but I hate the double standard even more.

No, no hard evidence. It's just a guess on my part but it's not an unfounded conclusion pulled out of thin air. I can connect dots. That's true, mighty no 9 was my first and last Kickstarter for this same exact scenario. I didn't ask for a refund but I could have got one at anytime. No matter how badly they trashed their backers they still gave the refund. That's what an honorable company would do.

bluefox7552186d ago (Edited 2186d ago )

There's not any actual evidence, but it's not that big of a leap when you consider everything that has come out of their PR. While it's not fair to conclude it as fact, it's certainly not unfair to speculate. If I were a betting man, I would absolutely not rule out that their hiring process is less than meritocratic.

opinionated2186d ago

[email protected] Circumstantial evidence at best. It's just a guess lol.

That leaves an interesting question though. We all agree that a company has a right to fire someone but do we all agree that a company has a right to employ someone, regardless of our feelings? What if it was reversed and play-tonic responded to this outrage with "jontron views do not represent the views of our company" then it it go? We see this disclaimer all the time like it's too difficult to be common sense. What do you think the headlines would say if play-tonic told this upset group to fuck off like they do to their other consumers? They would get bombarded. I think they caved and did so easily. You can see it with the "it's not real voice acting guys, it's just noises" comments. They got rid of this dude to shut up a group of people and then upset another group with their public cowardice lol. I can understand why playtonic would try to avoid these people with a simple edit though.

bluefox7552186d ago

I've watched a few interviews with Colin Moriarty after him leaving Kinda Funny, and the things he reveals about the game industry is kind of eye opening. He says that gaming journalism is almost 100% far left, and because of this, everyone thinks the rest of the industry is as well. It helps to explain why a lot of these things keep happening.

opinionated2186d ago

Yeah that was an interesting and unusual interview. I agreed with a lot of what he said besides liking mitt Romney and such. I'm in the same social libertarian, but republican on serious policy mindset. I just don't like the fake republicans (which is the vast majority of them).

bluefox7552186d ago

@opinionated Yeah, I've largely given up on republicans, though I sympathize with them a bit more than democrats because at least they actually talk about things like limited government and preserving constitutional liberties, they just rarely follow though. I worry less about social issues, because I believe that war is largely won already. Everyone in the western world has the same constitutional rights, and anything beyond that seems to involve thought policing or demands for affirmative action.

DragonKnight2185d ago

You need to watch a dev on youtube. His name is Troy Leavitt. He has several videos on the gaming development scene and the levels of consideration they give to SJWs in developing games.

earlygreenway2185d ago

@opinionated, I rarely agree with you but you're making some great points here. It's a level discussion I rarely see on N4G. It's appreciated.

opinionated2185d ago

👍 cheers. What do you disagree on?

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MetroidFREAK212186d ago

I just refuse to buy the game until a physical Switch version is released.

Darkfist_Flames2186d ago

Meh, im more interested in playing Skylar & Plux.

DeathtoOtakuDJ2185d ago

Oh wow, never heard of it, but nice recommendation (just saw some YT vids).

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