Microsoft Describes Project Scorpio as the First and Only True 4k Console

As we get closer to E3, it looks like Xbox is preparing to the reveal of the eagerly anticipated mid-gen console, code-named Xbox Scorpio. The console now appears on Microsoft's online store and it's description of Scorpio is interesting.

[SourtreeDing]

take this wack marketing out of here

[chrisx]

The PR for the scorpio is on overdrive and it masks some other issues the xbone has that's not being attended to e.g not much stellar exclusives. I don't even have to mention that the Ps4 pro does that too so this statement is suspicious

[skydragoonityx]

Ha! We will see about that

[GtR35olution]

What rubbish. There are a few native 4k games on the ps4 pro . Also the checkerboard 4k horizon zero dawn on ps4 pro looks better than the witcher 3 in 4k so i dont understand what saying "true 4k" is suppose to mean

[Sunny_D]

Well not really. PS4 doesn't have most full native 4K games. So if Phil makes good on his promise, then his statement will hold true.

[uth11]

@GTR - true 4K means you can get rid of the insecurities of knowing someone somewhere has better specs than you.

Doesn't matter if you can't actually see a difference

[bluefox755]

@Sunny_D How so? Saying a console is 4k means it is 4k capable, not that every game runs at native 4k (they won't on Scorpio either). Most Xbox One games don't run at 1080p, so should we stop calling it a 1080p console as well? So no, Phil's statement will not hold true, he's just using deceptive marketing tactics like they always do at MS>

[TheCommentator]

What exactly do you understand, GTR? How do you not know what "true 4K" is? I know this is hard for people like you and Chrisx to understand, but let's see if you can figure it out!

Which one of these is synonymous with True 4K:

AAA games Upscaled to 4K
AAA games Checkerboard 4K
AAA games Native 4K

Seriously, you guys are going to get trashed hard here at N4G when E3 comes and proves both of you wrong. Be prepared to move your goalposts.

[WhoCaresWhatMyNameIs]

If you know corporate business culture, PR never handles website and store front copy. Public...Relations...isn't really hard to cinceptualize what they do. Marketing, Legal and PR are 3 different department. Bold move from a combined marketing and legal team. Most copy don't with a marketing team has to be approved by legal. Your point lost validation.

[Mr Pumblechook]

In the UK the ad would not be allowed because it is dishonest - but in the US anything goes!

[Angel911]

How about you stop and other sony fanboys stop posting bs and wait till e3 and let them show some scorpio and games there? New system is coming they have to hold some games for it.

[mandingo]

Are you retarded? how can a checkerboard game look better than native 4k Witcher @gtr35olution. you dumb fuck. Unheard of. You are so dumb it's hilarious. Damn I'm heated

[LexHazard79]

The PR out of your camp has been on overdrive and I dont see you guys taking a day off anytime soon. More and more salty Scorpio news will be coming from now til E3. Some devs already loving it. All you guys will brag about will be games pretty much. Lol... so enjoy the power difference that about to evaporate in a few months.

[DarthZoolu]

I play Elite Dangerous everyday on X1 with the homies, and when Scorpio comes out I'm gonna be playing it in tru 4k, because that's what I like, I don't care about all those single player narrative focused games. Xbox is perfect for me and many that have them. You don't hear a lot of xbox gamers complaining about nothing to play.

[donthate]

Scorpio is going to unleash beast mode. Bring on the monster so I can play it the best way possible on consoles.

Combine this with Crackdown 3 and the cloud, and nothing will even touch this experience, but an extremely high end PC that will cost 3-4x more. Can't wait!

I will let haters hate, and I will just enjoy the games.

[Christopher]

This is typical Microsoft PR spinning.

First, they didn't just say 'true 4k gaming' machine. There was an 'and' there. That 'and' means it will have high-fidelity virtual games as well. What does that mean? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. 'High-fidelity' is a meaningless term as it represents no exact figure and can be quantified however MS wants. And by adding that 'and' there, MS can shrug off the first part by saying they meant it would play some games in 4k or that it even does what the Pro does, just it does it better. Fact is, this is not a lie because they can spin it however they want. This is standard MS PR.

Second, while the above remains true, MS really means to tell consumers that the Pro is a fake 4k machine and that theirs is not fake. It's misleading solely because anyone who reads the line 'true 4k gaming' is 99.99999999% of the time going to think that means that all games will run at a native 4k unlike the Pro. But, if that doesn't happen, what then? See above.

So, in conclusion:
The Good: They're not lying.
The Bad: They aim to mislead.
The annoying: Everyone does this, but Microsoft does it all the time and is one of the reasons I dislike Microsoft as a business. It's not their products. It's not their games. It's how they put out misleading statements all the time. They're the Comcast of the Tech world.

[darthv72]

Agreed. I do not care for the suits who come up with this stuff but I do like the platform and the games.

[SirBradders]

I think the average consumer will not no the difference which leads to the question of what the average consumer believes is the better value for money machine. For example they will consider price, what they want it for (more games) and what their friends have (more than likely a PS4).

So the PR imo means nothing unless the price is competitive and whether they bring the software.

[TheCommentator]

Well then, if that's how you see things, that means XB1 is a 1080p machine just like PS4 is and they're no different from one another either. One of the dumber things you've said recently, considering that this whole generation has been arguing over either resoltuion or games support. Now you're going to try to spin it as MS propoganga? Lol.

Also, love the, "and high fidelity virtual games" comment from you as well, like you expected VR in 4K from Scorpio...

They aim to mislead? No, that's your agenda. MS has a machine capable of native 4K on AAA titles, but it's up to devs on how to use it. It's actually a pretty simple concept when you take the bias out of your comment. Let me explain with an analogy. A sports car advertised with a 3 second 60 time isn't spreading FUD because the driver doesn't accelerate like that every time they step on the gas. It's still a 3 second machine even when it gets groceries.

[Muzikguy]

All the time! I too don't like it and stay clear of Xbox because of this. If you need to mislead your customer to get a sale you can't be trusted IMO

[TheCommentator]

Musikguy, like Sony said Blu Ray was necessary for next gen gaming and claimed 360 wasn't next gen (even though 360 games looked better than PS3). Or how Sony said at the PS3 reveal that as long as there was a Playstation there would be backwards compatibility? Or how Sony misled people when they promoted PS3 as a linux-capable machine and then removed support for it? Or like PS Now helped sell Sony TV's and Blu Ray players that are losing their support... in spite of the fact that the service isn't being cancelled?

Yet you trust Sony? Lol.

[gangsta_red]

Yea, I really don't see the misleading here either and I think this is just another example of some people getting all riled up when a certain company does anything to sell a product.

"4k gaming and high fidelity games", to me means exactly that. It will play games in a 4k resolution as well as games in a standard HD, since the term high fidelity does mean high-quality reproduction of sound or images. So yes it is a broad term but a term that anyone could and should understand. Are you really expecting them to give specific numbers to the public which many in any case just want to see something new and shiny?

"MS really means to tell consumers that the Pro is a fake 4k machine and that theirs is not fake"

I guess if you really want to think that deep about it. They could also be saying that their Xbox One S isn't capable of doing the things this new upgraded Xbox can do and that their users should really consider upgrading. I personally got out of this that MS was telling people that the planet Nibiru was real and that only the true power of the god Scorpio in 4k can save us...but then again I guess everyone interprets things differently.

What's funny is Sony advertises their PS4 Pro as "Dynamic 4K Gaming & 4K Entertainment", that sounds to me that all the games for PS4 Pro are playing in 4k and so is the entertainment. But no one seems to have an issue with that, no one calls Sony sleazy, misleading and always doing this, no one freaks out.

https://www.playstation.com...

Of course there's a ton of '*' after each claim and when you scroll aaaaallll the way to the bottom the truth is revealed.

I don't know, I find it funny how MS PR is always on trial on this site, when they made a couple of stealthy ads promoting Destiny and we got outrage and chaos but then Sony PR stealthy digs at Switch while promoting PS4 and it's fun, games and lulz and under the radar.

I truly believe that MS just can't do anything without super harsh criticism. Some are actually warranted but most is over exaggeration and like you admitted every company does this, but only one company gets brutally shitted on for it.

[Christopher]

***"4k gaming and high fidelity games", to me means exactly that. It will play games in a 4k resolution as well as games in a standard HD***

But it doesn't say that. It says "true 4k gaming". What does that mean? To most, that means native 4k, right?Well, what happens when all games aren't native 4k? Is it really a 'true 4k gaming' machine or is that just PR? We've already had confirmation that not all games will run in Native 4k. So, what is a 'true 4k gaming' machine then? It's just PR. That's all it is.

Sorry, I know this isn't important stuff in the scheme of things. But, this is exactly the intent of marketing. Selling the hope for something without directly lying. My dislike of MS business isn't some 'big deal' except here, where we talk about all things gaming and not the important things in life. But, that's exactly what it is.

***then Sony PR stealthy digs at Switch while promoting PS4 and it's fun, games and lulz. ***

Are you turning me into every person you are arguing against or do you have proof of me doing what you just said? I'm not going to argue you based on the worst of MS fanboys, I kind of ask you do the same with me and any other type of fanboy. If you reply to me, reply to me, not to the crowd of fanboys you want to argue against.

***Yet you trust Sony? Lol.***

Trust no one. My only issue is that MS does this very often. Every business does it, but MS does this a ton. Apple is up there as well.

[Christopher]

***Some are actually warranted but most is over exaggeration and like you admitted every company does this, but only one company gets brutally shitted on for it.***

Uh, no, I shit on everyone for it. And, what was 'brutal' about what I did? Did I troll? Did I call them names? Or did I just explain my point?

Where were you when I 'shit' on Sony for overpriced memory cards, PS Move idiocy, and more? Where are you when I shit on Sony for not allowing EA Access? Where are you when I shit on Sony for not having full mod support? Where are you when I shit on Nintendo for being Nintendo? Stop trying to write a history of me that suits your argument.

[MyDietEqualsGames]

With that "and" in there, that already destroys half of the fanboys rants about PS4 Pro not being true 4k due to the fact not every game that comes out on it is 4k. I don't want to talk shit about the Scorpio, because that isn't the issue or topic, it's the PR spinning that irks me.

[darthv72]

@mizuk... so you hold a grudge against the xbox system because they use misleading marketing? And it's not all the time but I'd say more often than not.

Seriously if it was all the time then they would be getting hauled into court all the time and that isnt happening. sounds to me like a very petty thing to hold a grudge over. I don't like certain decisions made by the likes of Sega, Sony, nintendo and MS but I don't deny myself the pleasure of their platforms over it.

Sometimes you just need thicker skin and the understanding that these companies are in the same business for the same reasons. to make money not friends. If you think they are your friend then brother.... you need to get out more.

[gangsta_red]

@Christopher

"But it doesn't say that. It says "true 4k gaming". What does that mean?"

Sony has the same type of slogan on their website for the PS4 Pro that is just as broad and wide. And yet why are we here, confused about the same type of PR statement made for the Scorpio? This is my point, it's advertising for the masses, not a spec sheet of check marks for the tech nerds.

"...where we talk about all things gaming and not the important things in life"

Agreed, but there still seems to be a phenomenal amount of exaggeration or a higher level of expectation when speaking about MS in relation to (even you admit) what EVERY company does.

"Are you turning me into every person you are arguing against or do you have proof of me doing what you just said?"

Never said you did this, just pointing out examples on the levels of hatred MS PR seems to get in comparison to other companies. How an ad, tweets, PR or anything MS related is somehow viewed as sleazy, misleading or anything else while at the same time another company does this and it goes under the radar unnoticed or shrugged off. Not saying you do this, just a recent example that has to do with exactly what we are discussing right now.

In closing, why is there such scrutiny for this company doing the exact same thing everyone else does?

[Christopher]

***With that "and" in there, that already destroys half of the fanboys rants about PS4 Pro not being true 4k due to the fact not every game that comes out on it is 4k. ***

PS4 Pro is less of a 4k machine than Scorpio. Checkerboard is not 4k.

Reminds me of a twitter poll I posted recently: https://twitter.com/N4G/sta...

[Christopher]

***Never said you did this, just pointing out examples on the levels of hatred MS PR seems to get in comparison to other companies.***

So, the equivalent of people complaining about bias when a game they like doesn't get reviewed 'fairly'? I don't see how that has anything to do with the subject at hand and instead just turns the conversation more into about fanboys than the news. Good job?

[Eonjay]

I don't like it simply for the fact that they are so caviler about misleading people. Its almost as though they think we are stupid and that is never a good look for PR of any kind.

[gangsta_red]

@Christopher

"Stop trying to write a history of me that suits your argument."

You seem to be taking this a bit personal and making it exclusively about you. Are we not discussing the here and now in relation to MS PR? I never accused you of trolling or anything else, we are talking about how the ridicule for MS PR can be exaggerated. You made your claims, I disagreed with them and I also pointed out why just the same as you. I may have threw in examples but none of them were aimed to paint you as the culprit. Just examples of how one company always gets dealt with in a certain manner.

"Where were you when I 'shit' on Sony for overpriced memory cards, PS Move idiocy, and more?"

So because you gave me those examples that means a free pass should be awarded to you for also shitting on something so common and done by all?

[Christopher]

***You seem to be taking this a bit personal and making it exclusively about you. Are we not discussing the here and now in relation to MS PR?***

What? You are replying to me, specifically, citing that only Microsoft gets 'shitted' on. If you want to argue what 'others' do, don't reply to me or turn my comment into some general statement towards others.

And, no, you're not discussing PR, you're discussing your dislike that you perceive MS gets more complaints for PR.

*** I never accused you of trolling or anything else, we are talking about how the ridicule for MS PR can be exaggerated.***

You said my statements were 'brutal'.

*** You made your claims, I disagreed with them and I also pointed out why just the same as you.***

No, not the same. I made my own opinion without attachments to anything but my opinion. You made it about "... and I think this is just another example of some people getting all riled up when a certain company does anything to sell a product."

***I may have threw in examples but none of them were aimed to paint you as the culprit. Just examples of how one company always gets dealt with in a certain manner. ***

"Some are actually warranted but most is over exaggeration and like you admitted every company does this, but only one company gets brutally shitted on for it."

You certain that doesn't paint me as a culprit there?

***So because you gave me those examples that means a free pass should be awarded to you for also shitting on something so common and done by all?***

Again, you're not painting me as a culprit?

And, where did I say it was common? That is your own word, used to attempt to make it look like it's the norm. I didn't say it was the norm, I said they all do it. I never said it was common or that they all do it as often.

Sorry, but GTFO with that logic and go take your complaints about fanboys elsewhere. I have every right to complain about something without you attempting to label it as 'shitting on' just because this time it's a complaint about MS.

[gangsta_red]

@Christopher

"You are replying to me, specifically, citing that only Microsoft gets 'shitted' on."

Seriously? I am citing that MS PR seems to get shitted on for something that every company does. Something that YOU even admitted. Why you seem to get so offended by that is hilarious. You're the one who left a comment about something EVERYONE does and how you hate MS for doing it.

But me leaving other examples of the same type all of sudden gets you thrown into a powerful tizzy and all sorts of misplaced accusations.

"..you're discussing your dislike that you perceive MS gets more complaints for PR."

No I'm discussing how you perceive MS does this ALL the time even though everyone does this. How Sony has the exact same type of marketing slogan for PS4 Pro and no one was confused or said a peep and yet here we are discussing being mislead when that same PR is applied to Scorpio. But instead of acknowledging that you went full John McClane because you think I'm implying you're a fanboy or some junk.

Now you were saying how you were there bashing Sony for EA Access, memory cards and the likes, do you have a link stating how Sony mislead you for PS4Pro?

"You said my statements were 'brutal'."

So, that automatically means I'm calling you a troll?

"Again, you're not painting me as a culprit?"

Wow, seriously? I think this has more to do with thin skin then anything else at this point. You are so worried about some false accusation of being called a fanboy that the discussion has now become something entirely different.

"Sorry, but GTFO with that logic and go take your complaints about fanboys elsewhere...."

Never said you couldn't complain about it, complain all you want for any company your heart desires. But when your complaints are bat shit stupid then expect someone to disagree. Now if all you have as a comeback is what you think I might have said or meant, being upset that you think you're in the same category as other lames I pointed out and then actually having to tell someone to GTFO because you think that someone might have called you a fanboy...well that kind of sums up just how stupid your complaint was in the first place.

[Christopher]

***Seriously? I am citing that MS PR seems to get shitted on for something that every company does. Something that YOU even admitted.***

It's the quantity you ignore. I specifically cited it was how often they did it. You completely ignore that.

***No I'm discussing how you perceive MS does this ALL the time even though everyone does this.***

You do realize doing it all the time is different than having ever done it, right? It's the difference between that guy just lied to me and that guy lies to me all the time.

***How Sony has the exact same type of marketing slogan for PS4 Pro and no one was confused or said a peep and yet here we are discussing being mislead when that same PR is applied to Scorpio.***

But they didn't do the same thing... Their dynamic resolution statements are not saying it's a true 4k gaming machine. They've made similar stupid statements on other things but the Pro wasn't. It was up front about checkerboard and dynamic resolution.

So, as an example, that one doesn't line up.

***Wow, seriously? I think this has more to do with thin skin then anything else at this point. You are so worried about some false accusation of being called a fanboy that the discussion has now become something entirely different. ***

This is hilarious and stupid at the same time. First you moan about Microsoft getting more criticism just because, what, I make one critical note on something they do that I don't like? You call it 'shitting on' as if that's not a hyperbolic term to reference unfair criticism. Then you try to act like the comment as a reply to me and specifically citing me as 'shitting on' Microsoft over a single opinion isn't intended for you to deride my opinion and argue, once again, how unfair it is that so many people 'shit on' Microsoft. No one brought up this stuff in reply to me until you.

I didn't say you are calling me a fanboy, I said you are making this about fanboys with that argument. But I call you out for making it about that and I'm the thin skinned one? Me, not you, the one defending Microsoft from all this unfair 'shitting on'? Seriously?

I don't care that you disagree with me, I care that you have to make so much about what others say a fanboy comparison rather than just sharing your opinion. It takes the conversation away from the topic at hand and makes it about trying to devalue any legit opinion just by associating it with fanboyism.

[Gazondaily]

Fml....you guys. Chill.

I do agree with both of you actually

1) With Christopher re the sly nature of this ad and the wiggle room it affords MS to have their cake and eat it owing to the clever wordplay

2) With gangsta that it's prevalent in this industry and Microsoft seem to be called out for things others don't. But you could argue that it's MS who are to blame because all their failures with the X1 caused them to create this bed where everyone scrutinises them to such a degree.

You two though lmao...I can actually sense the sexual tension.

[TheCommentator]

How old are you, 12? You're just sad that it's true. MS has reiterated the point several times now, developers acknowledge how good it is compared to the Pro, and Cerny even modified the Pro GPU to HW accelerate checkerboarding because it's not capable of native 4K for most games.

So the Pro was made for checkerboarding, and Scorpio is made for native 4K. So what? How can you not realize this considering the 6tf > 4.2tf alone? You sound like someone with a console inferiority complex trying desperately to ignore the situation. You can be ignorant and stick your head back in the sand, stay in the world of make.believe all you want, butit won't change the fact that Scorpio will run real AAA games in native 4K.

[Trez1234]

If it's true then the xbox one wasn't a " true" 1080p console. The pro has few native 4k games too which makes it obvious that they aim to mislead with this statement just like they did with few xbox one s adverts.

[JackBNimble]

Lol, speak for yourself... talk about sticking your own head in the sand.
Shit MS doesn't have anything to show and you talk like you already own a Scorpio and have been playing AAA games in 4k.
You come back in 6 months after Scorpio is released and maybe then you can talk some bullshit, but until then stfu and gtfo because you got nothing but speculation. At least we got working hardware that we can actually show.

[TheCommentator]

Trez, it was never marketed as one.

Jack, There is evidence all over the place that says Scorpio will be native 4K. How am I sticking my head in the sand when I'm looking at the evidence objectively? The guy with his head in the sand is the one labelling Phil's statements as "wack marketing" because he doesnt agree with the plethora of evidence that contradicts his beliefs. FYI, I will rub it in your faces too, even though I don't care about graphics that much, both because people like you deserve it for the way you treat others, and because that's how N4G encourages people to post with the way the site is policed.

[Christopher]

***Scorpio is made for native 4K***

How is that possible when MS has specifically stated multiple times that not every game will run in native 4k? It's made to get closer or hit 4k when it can, but no console at this time is 'made for native 4k'. The only thing made for that currently are PCs.

[TheCommentator]

Christopher, nobody can say that every game will be rendered at native 4K unless they mandate to developers how to use the power, which MS has not done. No PC card is true 4K either because I can choose not to render at 4K in order to make other aspects of the game better, just like devs choose for us on consoles. We can all agree that there will be reasons for devs on Scorpio to choose lower resolutions, and they'll even decide to checkerboard if it suits their needs, but that's not what the issue is here. The issue is that developers of AAA games on Scorpio could ALSO choose to run at native 4K if they want. The same cannot be said of the Pro for its AAA content.

So... simply put? Scorpio is a true 4K machine, while the Pro is not. Make sense? Don't worry if it doesn't because reality will set in when it gets shown off.

[Christopher]

***The issue is that developers of AAA games on Scorpio could ALSO choose to run at native 4K if they want. The same cannot be said of the Pro for its AAA content.***

Uh, it absolutely could. But, developers are all about looking good.

***So... simply put? Scorpio is a true 4K machine, while the Pro is not. Make sense? Don't worry if it doesn't because reality will set in when it gets shown off.***

You just said a lot of nothing. Sounds like when people were trying to make Checkerboard = native 4k to me.

[meka2611]

The sony fanboys in here are unreal. Stop giving the BS of "what does true 4k mean?" It means exactly as it sounds true 4k is uhd with hdr support, which is what they will have. Of course 4k will be up to the game developers but that is out of microsofts hands. Christ get over it that it's gonna have better resolution than ps4 pro; at least ps4 still has the games.

[TheCommentator]

Developers are all about looking good? Okay. What if Scorpio games have user selectable options like, hint, Pro games already can... but ALSO include a 4K option? Then the user could choose. It's not that hard to imagine this to be the case, Christopher, but you always seem to pick out the worst possible scenario and exploit it to make your case.

I just said a lot of nothing you can understand with your blinders on. Fixed. Here's reality:

Scorpio designed for 4K AAA
Pro designed for Checkerboard AAA
MS will show off native 4K content from both 1st and 3rd Party AAA on Scorpio. 3rd party games that aren't capable of native 4k on Pro.

Seriously though Christopher, name one AAA game that is native 4K on the Pro. And, no, ports of last gen AAA games don't count.

[Chevalier]

I think I will be okay with my XB1 S and PC for microsoft games.

[subtenko]

gotta admit, its not as dumb as 'the cloud' ordeal....but at the same time not as fun :(

[Muzikguy]

Sounds like they're already preparing for failure. Come on MS, stop being such arrogant jerks. Their PR alone makes me not want their console. I'm pretty sure that by the time Scorpio comes out they'll be cutting corners and doing things like checkerboard rendering too. Of course, they'll make an excuse for that by then

[TheVetOfGaming]

Thats partly the reason I stopped supporting Microsoft and Xbox after the 360. I just hate the way they spin tbings and treat their loyal customers. As a brand, I think it has turned into a terrible mess. The Scorpio does sound good on paper, but the 6 teraflops isn't enough to make me think anything other than it will offer more of the same....which going by the Xbox 1, isn't all too much in the way of games and support.

[blackblades]

Deja vu anyone.

[SourtreeDing]

the only reason why i say this is wack is bc, look at this PR they are Chasing the graphics whore consumers and they believe it or not will get them to buy the console for the sole reason of 4k.. but they wont getme with that dry ass catalog of games

[rightway]

Playstation fanboys fear the beast. Its laughable the way they now claim 1080p checkboarding is the same as 4K native. Xbox fans where laughed at for 3 years over resolution, just stop with the bullshit you look like idiots now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

[Goldby]

except it isnt 1080P, its 1800P

[Bigpappy]

Well its true.

[S2Killinit]

I think MS is exaggerating the benefits even if we assume they are telling the whole truth when they say they are the only one with 4K.

Digital Foundry already confirmed that you will not be able to tell the difference between Checkerboard and native 4K.

The thing is that MS will keep telling people to basically wait, but the superiority of native will never arrive. At least not to the extent that would justify buying another console for $400+ especially when MS has failed to show that they are committed to console gaming and exclusives in the long term (even assuming you can Even call their "exclusives" exclusive.)

[Sparta07]

I'm soooo confused 😳
But resolution don't matter, that's what they were telling us this gen.
Now it matters!?🤔
" first and only true 4K console "😂
Sure, can somebody tell them about PS4PRO.
I would also bet all these devoted Microsoft fans don't even have 4K tvs. 😬
4K is so important to you guys yet you been playing 720p and 900p and that's just perfect for you guys.
Maybe you have a few that actually do 1080p.
So can we agree that the original PS4 is " the first and only true 1080p console " 🤗
Microsoft's PR is true BS.

[Bathyj]

Its not whack marketing, its a flat out lie.

You know I was actually gonna give the benefit of the doubt to MS on this one. I figured it was just a headline going for clicks as usual and making MS out to be the bad guy because they really are an easy target.

But then I realise the reason they are an easy target is because they bring it on themselves. "The first and only console to enable true 4K gaming"

Well spin that how you want Xbox fans, but that is not true and therefor, a lie.
By true I assume they are referring to native. We can all agree on that.
Since the Pro has native 4k games, Scorpio (which isnt out yet) is neither the first, nor the only to have them. We can all agree on that.
Since Pro has native 4k games can we all just agree that true 4k gaming has been enabled?

And can we all agree MS is lying?

Besides, who gives a damn. Im playing Horizon on my poor old Checkerboard 4k (which is not upscaling by the way) and I doubt very much MS will make a better looking game this gen. If fact Id bet money on it.

And I hope Scorpio does use Checkerboard because its a much smarter technique. Why worry about native 4k when CB is half as stressful on the hardware and looks 95% as good? Its going to be up to devs where they spend their power. So hit Native and dial done effects and have a struggling framerate, or use CB and have it buttery smooth with balls to the wall graphics? I know which one I would prefer.

[trooper_]

Microsoft never ceases to make themselves look like idiots. They better back up that bold claim with actual exclusives.

[Bigpappy]

They don't mention anything about exclusives. Where are you reading that.

[Bathyj]

Nor will they.

[QUIMICOMORTAL]

They have lied before, and they need to say something...

[IamTylerDurden1]

It's a Septic article, but this is the same rhetoric echoed by Phil and it is very tired at this point. It's also pretty low brow, you don't see Sony continuously lowering themselves and taking backhanded shots at Microsoft.

Wth does "true 4K console" even mean? I know that there are plenty of games that play in cb 4K and native 4k on Pro. Not every game on Scorpio will be native 4k either. Say what you will, but Horizon Zero Dawn in cb 4K with HDR is absolutely STUNNING and plenty good enough for me. I honestly think the super talented devs in Sony's stable will help bridge the specs gap between Pro and Scorpio. Scorpio may have higher specs, but Microsoft doesn't have a Naughty Dog, GG, or Sony Santa Monica. The Coalition and 343 just don't have the same chops. HZD, God of War, and Days Gone are shaping up as technical masterpieces. I wouldn't worry if you're a Sony fan, it's talented devs that make great games, not specs. Even Sucker Punch has some incredible technical prowess. After Second Son i can't wait to see what they do with Pro.

[corroios]

Of course that everybody knows since last E3 that Microsoft will sell the Scorpio as the only, real, first ever and so on 4k console on the market. With a couple of commercial stating that.

What else can they say with a machine that is coming out on late 2017.

[MyDietEqualsGames]

It's a lie, because PS4 has already done native 4k. They can't make this claim. They aren't first. Bottom line.
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

Now, while the list isn't huge, the fact that the PS4 Pro has already done this, even if it's one game, which it isn't, ;Stating they're the ONLY console capable of True 4k is complete bullshit and is false advertisement.

Now if they move the Goal Posts and say "true 4k60fps" then, OK. Let's see it in action and lol.

[Obscure_Observer]

@MyDietEqualsGames

"It's a lie, because PS4 has already done native 4k. They can't make this claim. They aren't first. Bottom line."

Agreed. I´m certain Greenberg has something to do it. Since Spencer already said that Native 4K is NOT MANDATORY, i can only wonder what the Xbox marketing team has been smoking -_-

[Imalwaysright]

Less than 1% of games available for the Pro in native 4k doesn't make it a true 4k console. It will remain to be seen if the Scorpio is going to render most of its games in native 4K though.

[idealty]

I'm so tired of the ignorance out there about PS4 Pro and native 4K. The PS4 Pro is a machine that is FULLY capable of outputting NATIVE 4K games and media. No it is not the most powerful games device out there (that would be PC) and has limited resoures. Thus, it is up to developers to decide if and how to implement native 4K or whatever resolution they want. But the PS4 Pro is a fully capable 4K gaming machine!

With that said, hearing comments like Imalwaysright below about "less than 1% of games available for the Pro in native 4K..." is just wrong and ridiculous. Only 4 months out of launch, the list of native 4K PS4 Pro is actually 30+ ( http://www.neogaf.com/forum... and growing! That doesn't even include the 2160p Checkerboarding games like Horizon and Tomb Raider which look virtually identical to native 4K.

Will most AAA games be native 4K on PS4 Pro? NO! Is is likely that Scorpio will have more native 4K games than PS4 Pro? Yes! That still doesn't take away the fact that PS4 Pro is capable of native 4K, has plenty of games in native 4K, and uses other intelligent approaches to deliver a very convincing image that is much higher quality than a standard 1080p output from a PS4/XB1.

[Imalwaysright]

@ idealty

Yes it is wrong because if this list is accurate https://en.wikipedia.org/wi... it's actually 2.2% games available for it are that are Native 4k however I feel that my point still stands. Claiming that the Pro is a true 4k console when only 30 games out of 1350 are native 4K is imo ridiculous.

Also no, by today's standards of graphical fidelity set by the PS4, the Pro is not a "fully capable 4K gaming machine" and checkerboarding isn't native 4k.

[GorillaTact]

The Scorpio is about to eat the Playstation 4s lunch. Native 4k, 60fps is about to be a reality for one console only. Go talk to some PC gamers with rigs that are doing 4K. If a PC can hit 4K, 60fps with a little under 6TFlops you better believe a console built specifically for gaming will. I think its great that people are downplaying the Scorpio, by all means please continue.

[its_JEFF]

@Imalwaysright @GorillaTact I think you're both not getting it... Native 4K rendering is not some magical, mythical thing. The PS4 Pro can do native 4K rendering, in fact, the PS4 Pro can do 4K60 if it wanted to but at what visual fidelity? That's the real question. You guys are just focusing on "Native 4K" but not asking about the visual fidelity. Shit you can run a game that has PS3 level graphics at native 4K60... but who the F*@K wants that?!?! I guess some do, just to be able to say "Na na bu bu... we have native 4K"

1080's have a hard time running DOOM, a graphically modern looking game @ 4K60... you expect these machines to? Optimization can achieve a lot, but to get there will take quite a few compromises.

@GorillaTact Also, what gaming PC that has a 6TF GPU is running games @ 4k60? Are you referring to game like DOOM and Tomb Raider? Also, what do you think a gaming PC is "built specifically" for besides gaming?

[GorillaTact]

itsJeff

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[its_JEFF]

@GorillaTact IDK if you read my post, but I specifically pointed to compromises having to be made. That video you linked is a guy "surmising" what the Scorpio could run at 4K30, btw MadMax is not a very graphically intensive game. If that's the future of gaming to come, no thank you. I'll take 1080/1440p with more geometry, better frame rate, more effects, and bigger worlds any day! Also, I was referring to 4K60, that it very very different. Also I believe that guy was running a synthetic benchmark and not an applications benchmark, which is a much more accurate predictor or performance.

https://www.youtube.com/wat... - high-end PC, everything at ULTRA w/1080
https://www.youtube.com/wat... - high-end PC, running DOOM with Vulcan API hitting 60!
https://www.youtube.com/wat... - RX480 5TF, tested 1080p/1140p/4K

[ColonelHugh]

@GorillaTact

The brand new 1080 ti GPU and the $1200 TitanX Pascal are the only cards that can reliably run 4K at 60fps for modern games, and even then, you'll often see dips to 45fps, especially when the CPU is being pushed.
You're dead wrong if you think the Scorpio will do that level of performance on anything graphically intensive. Don't get OVERhyped about its power, unless you want to be disappointed this holiday season.

That said, even the PS4 Pro runs The Division at native 4K 30fps (with higher graphical settings than other consoles), so there may be quite a few full 4K titles at 30fps. But the smart thing would be to use checkerboarding and either stabilize frame-rate or push higher settings over Pro versions.

[its_JEFF]

@sirjojo their not, cause when they see native 4K, resolution, they assume everything is in "4K"... rather than what you eluded to, 4K everything, resolution/textures/effects. But i think for most people just seeing "true 4k" next a title is enough, hey don't really care about the details... what thy REALLY want to know, and i think is the honest truth, is my version or system the better/stronger one? sad but true, i think.

[idealty]

@Imalwaysright

Your conclusion that PS4 Pro isn't a "true 4K machine" because it only has 30 out of 1350 is completely wrong logic. The PS4 Pro is a different platform where developers have to actually code their game to support the enhanced specs. It happens to be fully backward compatible with the PS4 library but as you know devs would have to individual patch games to support higher resolutions. 98% of the 1350 games on PS4 you mention were designed for PS4 base in mind and thus would not target 4K or any resolution above 1080p. So your logic is just flawed.

To date, there are about 70 Pro enabled games released to market ( http://www.ign.com/wikis/pl... Out of those (based on the list I linked) there are about 25 native 4K games on PRO. So the correct way to do this is to say that 25/70 Pro games are native 4K which is about 35%! That's 1 out of 3 titles and BTW that ratio is higher than the number of native 1080p titles on PS3 and Xbox 360.

The expectation based on Microsoft's tease of specs is that Scorpio SHOULD have a higher percentage of native 4K titles than the PS4 Pro. So for example, if Scorpio launched with 20 "Scorpio enabled titles" and 15 of them were native 4K, than that 75% is much higher than the PRO's 35%. The additional memory, memory bandwidth, and GPU power on Scorpio should make reaching 4K easier than on the PRO. However that still doesn't change the fact that PS4 PRO is in fact a machine fully capable of native 4K and has a good amount of titles developed for it running in native 4K.

[idealty]

@sirjojo

Your point about memory is spot on. People that know anything about HW and game development know that the memory and memory bandwidth is the biggest limitation for "real" 4K on PS4 Pro. However, the argument on whether or not the PS4 PRO HW is a 4K machine is a different point than whether or not the games developer for it actually use 4K assets or not. Of course, the machine itself is capable of rendering 4K assets and outputting a native 4K resolution. The lack of 4K assets is more of a developer issue based on limited resources for the quality of titles expected today.

But definitely a good point and with the additional memory and bandwidth, a native 4K Scorpio game could still look way better than a native 4K PS4 Pro assuming they both ran at the same resolution.

[Kaneki-Ken]

They can say that it won't have exclusives and that regular Xbone it no longer going to be supported with Xbox exclusives(not really exclusives)

[GorillaTact]

Indian Arab shill here. Have I already missed the party?

[DrJones]

This is blast processing all over again.

[MyDietEqualsGames]

@ImAlwaysRight

I see your reading comprehension has gone the way of the Dodo. You're fanboying pretty hard too. I do give you credit, however, most fanboys just use blanket statements and don't bring sources to facts to the table. Not bad.

But your personal remarks are just that. Personal opinions. " doesn't make it a true 4k console"

Check out Chris's comment regarding the PR statement. ( I don't agree with him about MS not lying, however.)

[Imalwaysright]

My reading comprehension doesn't have anything to do with it. Its the undeniable fact that very few games on the Pro are native 4K that makes me question the Pro as being a true 4k console. Imo saying that the Pro is a true 4K console when ONLY 30 games out of 1350 currently available for it are actually rendered at native (true) 4K to me, is absolutely ridiculous.

I'm basing my opinion from FACTS and I'm also questioning if the scorpio will render most of its games at native 4K for this claim to be true. What exactly am I fanboying? Personally, I feel that I'm being objective and consistent with my opinion for BOTH consoles.

[Imalwaysright]

Oh and as for Chris's comments he wrote this:

" says "true 4k gaming". What does that mean? To most, that means native 4k, right?Well, what happens when all games aren't native 4k? Is it really a 'true 4k gaming' machine or is that just PR?"

And this:

"How is that possible when MS has specifically stated multiple times that not every game will run in native 4k? It's made to get closer or hit 4k when it can, but no console at this time is 'made for native 4k'. The only thing made for that currently are PCs."

Which is exactly how I feel about the Pro and will feel about the Scorpio if it doesn't render most of its games at native 4K but that of course (gonna quote myself now 😂) remains to be seen.

[DrJones]

.

[KingKionic]

This is because we will see lots of games running on scorpio in native 4k and use 4K assets.

No surprise Microsoft says this. There will be no competitor that can brag about there console like that. So its will be unique to scorpio.

[MyDietEqualsGames]

Moving goal posts. 4k is resolution. If they want to say they're using 4k everything, fine, but don't move goal posts and try to redefine what resolution is and build hype on alternate definitions for phrases or words that are already well defined.

[GorillaTact]

The goal posts for Xbox arent the ones moving.

[Kribwalker]

"“I don't think any team is just fixated on 1080p, it's just one of the options...but [1080p] games allow you to be more precise and a better gamer. That's clearly the benefit.”"

There's an exact quote. Once again ".but [1080p] games allow you to be more precise and a better gamer."

Now if they said 60fps made you a better gamer, yeah I'd say that's true. But native resolution vs upscaled resolution will not make you a better gamer

[yeahokwhatever]

@GorillaTact
The goalposts for Xbox haven't even been built yet. Calm down. Also, PS5 is going to drop a giant turd on it in 2018, so who really even cares? Especially when you can build your own Scorpio today.

[Gazondaily]

Not all games will run 4k native on Scorpio. They will use checkerboard falafelling.

[2pacalypsenow]

Just like not all 4k Blu ray movies are native 4k.

[DJStotty]

Secret play tester right here

[GorillaTact]

The only way that will happen would be if Microsoft skimped on the RAM and CPU for the Scorpio. Or when game developers create with the Scorpio and high end PCs in mind. If it ends up with the hardware Im expecting, considering it has been dubbed a premium console Im pretty optimistic, it will be doing native 4K, 60fps on everything created with the Playstation 4(and Pro), or Xbox One in mind. It will take developers pushing the hardware specifically to see it start slowing down.

[Goldby]

NBA 2k does 4k at 60fps on Pro.

Sorry there bud, but Scorpio isn't the first and isn't the only 4k console.

[KingKionic]

Of course it is but it isnt really showing 4K on there biggest first party titles.

There vision from the jump is not native 4K. I mean this is fact backed up by mark cernys own comments not gonna go back and forth to that.

Microsoft has been very adamant about for them there first party titles will all be 4K on launch of scorprio.

https://www.vg247.com/2016/...

[darthv72]

Kind of like when the 360 had a 2k tennis game in 1080p when the norm was 720p???

sports games arent very taxing but 4k is still 4k just like 1080p is 1080p regardless of the fidelity that goes into that resolution.

[Goldby]

Still doesn't defeat the fact that they are lying about their new console,

It isn't the first 4k console, and it isn't the only 4k console

Theres no beating aroudn that bush, or moving goal posts, MS is lying again about its consoles

[KingKionic]

It's based on what there offering. It will bring true 4K gaming to what you could compare to PC spec games.

It's completely different talking point.

Definitely not a lie. But I see it's bothering people more then it should.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

NBA 2K was the first 1080p 60 frames on PS4 and X1. Those types of games aren't super demanding. I think MS means consistent 4k content across AAA's or more 4k output even then I personally don't think ALL 4k will be in AAA third party but first party sure.

[Goldby]

@kionic

and currently, if someone had nba2k on their pc running at 4k 60fps, it would look exactly like the ps4 pro version.

4k is 4k
Checkerboard render to reach 4k is't 4k but close.

the ps4 pro can output in native 4k, so the scorpio again, isnt the first and only 4k console

[Rimfro]

@Goldby

No, the PC version of NBA has better effects across the board. On PS4 Pro, all kinds of effects (like reflections) are barely there. Not even close. Try again!

[gangsta_red]

The problem with this new 4k revolution is it requires a 4k TV. Not yet convinced on upgrading at the moment especially if it just means better graphics only.

[yeahokwhatever]

AND Sony's TVs are going to have 1080p + HDR. The entire reason for me caring about 4k is gone now. 1080 in HZD looks INCREDIBLE. 0 "jaggies". Seriously, 4K is worse than 3D when it comes to gimmicks, unless you're talking about screen space on a PC for work.

[Mulando]

Well, just bought a 4k HDR (with 10bit hdr) TV and the picture quality is great. E.g. Netflix or amazon prime never looked better. Even at 1080p movies. Well but maybe my old TV had a shitty picture quality ^^

[Automatic79]

I had no doubt Scorpio is a beast. I think we all know the difference between checkerboard and 4K. Overall, can't wait.

[Goldby]

but whjat about games like nba 2k that are 4k and 60fps on pro?

[DJStotty]

What's the pro got to do with his choice that he can't wait for the Scorpio?

[yeahright2]

@DJ, my guess would be that automatic insinuated that the Pro only does checkerboard. Goldby was just correcting him.

[Liqu1d]

It's going to funny reading the comments when the first checkerboard rendered game releases.

[moegooner88]

Maybe MS can couple true 4k with the powaaaar of the cloud and destroy the competition.

[stiggs]

"powaaaar of the cloud."

I've never heard that one before. Are you a comedian? Really funny stuff...and that material. Wow, so original and innovative.

[moegooner88]

@stiggs You are most welcome. I am blushing

[Condemnedman]

come Christmas you will own a weak ass console how does that feel lol

[MRMagoo123]

@condemn

Is he getting a Scorpio at Christmas?

[Goldby]

and the lack of 4k textures people think every game including multiplat is going to be made with as of scorpios release

[DJStotty]

3rd party may use checkerboard technique to get results for their game. Only way around that is for Microsoft to put a clause that every game has to be 4K. That's not going to happen so even as an Xbox fan I already know not every game will be 4K that is the developers choice not Microsoft's

[XXanderXX]

As long that all first party and fully funded exclusive games deals are. Am good to go .

[MasterCornholio]

"I already know not every game will be 4K that is the developers choice not Microsoft's"

Yeah that's something even Microsoft said themselves.

[gangsta_red]

It's okay because it has already been established that checkerboard from most here, rendering is not actually up-scaling and that no one can tell the difference between that and native 4k.

[Liqu1d]

Just like some couldn't see the difference between 720p/900p and 1080p?

[MasterCornholio]

He's mainly criticizing those who claim that if a console uses checkerboard rendering in just one title it makes it a fake 4K system.

The sensible ones actually believe checkerboard rendering is a good technique and should be used when possible to save resources.

[gangsta_red]

"Just like some couldn't see the difference between 720p/900p and 1080p?"

Exactly, strange how NO ONE can see any differences in any resolution anymore?

[ColonelHugh]

The difference this time is instead of only armchair generals saying you can't tell the difference between 900p and 1080p, we even have Digital Foundry saying it is tough to tell the difference between 1800p checkerboarded to 4K and native 4K. The big tells of checkerboarding are the foliage in a still image.

But, as someone who CAN tell resolutions apart, higher native res is always better if the fps doesn't suffer for it.

[MasterCornholio]

Probably because the numbers are much higher.

What Digital Foundry are saying is that it's alot more difficult to tell the difference from before. When they said you had to sit a foot away from the television to see the difference is something that nobody will do.

Edit:

You know what's really sad? Digital Foundrys comparisons will be useless to those who don't own a 4K screen. I won't be able to see any visual difference in those types of comparisons like before. Which will lead to people arguing whether or not they watched the comparison on a 4K screen.

[MasterCornholio]

That comment section is going to be pretty bad. Thankfully I have realistic expectations and I know it's up to developers to choose the resolution not Microsoft. That's something that I've seen with the Pro and will see with the Xbox Scoprio. I'm basing all these assumptions off what Microsoft is saying.

[crazyCoconuts]

And next year their VR solution will be the first TRUE VR experience

[Perjoss]

How does it improve on the VR being provided by Vive, Oculus and PSVR?

[2pacalypsenow]

MS will find a way to market it that way, and people will fall for it

[crazyCoconuts]

I'm betting that's how it will be marketed. I'm sure there will be some incremental improvements due to technical advances over time. But this is just marketing speak to avoid the perception that they're late to the party.

[yeahright2]

It'll have he xbox log on it.

[XXanderXX]

Cause they will offer u AR/VR headsets for Scorpio.

[MRMagoo123]

I have a feeling there won't be enough Scorpio sold overall to bother with the headset considering it will only work with the Scorpio. MS will just be burning money if they did that.

[Perjoss]

I really want to buy a Scorp mainly because I spoil myself when it comes to hardware launches but MS really need to give me a couple of reasons to own one, and by reasons I mean a couple of really good games that I can't already play on another system. I hope they have something good planned for E3 or I'll just keep my money and maybe get a Vive instead.

[DJStotty]

I'm hoping for some announcements at e3 as well. Will still pick one up when I have the funds for a 4K TV lol.

[Tear111]

The only true 4k that doesn't have any exclusive

[thexmanone]

That's fine I`ll stick with true 4K mulitplat games then.

[MRMagoo123]

the ps4 pro already has 4k native multiplats so I guess you're getting a pro then ?

[thexmanone]

@MRMagoo123

Why would I get the Weaker system to play multiplats. And besides I don`t even like the PS4. that's why I`m in a Xbox article.

[andrewsquall]

I wonder how many people are going to be stunned when the 4K thing is revealed to be one of the main selling points of Scorpio?
I say this because ALL the haters focused on this when the "PS4K" turned out to be a console that's main focus was higher resolutions up to 4K.

[rainslacker]

They won't be shocked, because it's already the main selling point. They also won't be shocked when CD3 fails to live up to expectations with it's one and only selling point being fully destructible environments.

Xbox fan boys never seem to be shocked. And if they are, they're accepting of it after a couple days, so they don't stay upset at MS for very long once some other fan boy somewhere makes an excuse they can get behind.

I'd wager MS only has one game we don't know about to announce at the Scorpio's reveal or E3. The rest is going to be how multiplats will look the best on Scorpio, and showing off game play for what we already know, and another Forza. If we're lucky, the one game we don't know about won't be Halo 6, but a new high profile IP. Not exactly all that much excitement to look forward to.

[I-HATE-FANBOYS]

Launch price... anyones wanna try?

[slate91]

Starting at 399

[slate91]

PRINCE ALI, YES IT IS HE, BUT NOT AS YOU KNOW HIMMMM

[DJStotty]

I'm going for 499£ in the UK tops anything higher may be commercial suicide

[Automatic79]

I believe $450 in America.

[Masterchief_thegoat]

500-700 US dollar

[starchild]

I've always said it will be between $399 and $499 and I haven't changed my opinion on that.

[Cobra951]

That's probably true. Problem is that in no way will it sell me a Scorpio. I have zero interest in having my rendering power wasted on 3 times more pixels than I need. Give me a guarantee of 60 fps at 1080p, and then I'll be interested.

[DJStotty]

I think the statement is aimed at the fact it will have 4K blu ray as well as 4K native. If that's the case then the statement is correct

[Obscure_Observer]

Good. Haven´t though of that.

[bluefox755]

More deceptive marketing from MS. On the plus side, most have come to expect it at this point and won't be duped by it.

[Kribwalker]

Like this garbage? http://gamingbolt.com/sony-...

[MyDietEqualsGames]

You wanna get rekt again, Kribwalker? I'm in bed with a fever and a laptop. Let's go. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[MyDietEqualsGames]

Alright. Since I couldn't pull up the exact quote, I read the whole thing. While it's stupid to say that it will make you a better gamer, it does provide an advantage, just not as much as 60fps.

Tell me in what way, higher resolution can't make you more precise, take headshots for example? You're trying to compare something stupid to something stupider. Which still makes no sense.

I'll give it to you, though. You are right. I'm done, however. We've already shat on this comment section enough.

[GrontB]

Wowsers, Trump and Microsoft are on the same level!

[MyDietEqualsGames]

That's kind of extreme. Trump is playing with trillions. MS is only dealing with billions.

[MRMagoo123]

no way trump at least tells the truth once a quarter.

[paulogy]

There are 32 games (and counting) that run in native 4K on PS4 Pro: http://www.neogaf.com/forum... a system that has been available since last year. So their claim is demonstrably false.

[MattE]

1st True 4k console.. nice.. hopefully I won't see artifacts all over the image 😁

[Destiny1080]

the first 4k console was the pro, you cant change history Microsoft

all the 4k in the world is not going to save the scorpio if there's no games

[feraldrgn]

Not all Scorpio games will be native 4k, as MS themselves have said.
Also Sony has already got native 4k games released & upcoming.
Sorry but MS can't spin the marketing anymore.

[Lionalliance]

and the games?

[bellyboy]

digital foundry.....today on the 1080 ti "the card you need for 4k at 60fps......with settings turned down...." again, we are not at the point, where 4k 60fps is achievable without dropping settings, if the Scorpio games look anything like horizon zero dawn, im gonna be a very happy owner of both the Scorpio and the pro, and if it needs its own checkerboard to get to that level...totally fine by me.

[joab777]

True or not, Horizon looks legit on my 4k TV, so I am happy. I gotta say that checkerboarding regardless is doing something right.

[Angainor7]

This is all very nice but.. WHERE ARE THE F#%$ING GAMES???????

[ninsigma]

Doesn't that open them up for law suits or something?? Not only is a console already exist AND released to market capable of 4k but ms themselves said resolution is up to the developers so not all titles will be in 4k. Meh, I'll leave that to the legal guys.

[MRMagoo123]

MS always words things vaguely enough to get around a law suit or uses small print, they have a very big team of lawyers that make sure things can be on the border of lies but not enough to be done for it.

[XXanderXX]

Please. Be true 4K , none of the checkerboard stuff .

[yeahright2]

Aren't you primarily an xbox gamer? X1 has been upscaling this whole time but now I would start to bother you because it's on scorpio? Plus look at ryse, it didn't hit the magic 1080p, but still looked far better than most of the native 1080p games, honestly only other two I can think of that looked more impressive to me were the order and killzone.

[Liqu1d]

He won't even really be bothered if Scorpio uses checkerboard.

[XXanderXX]

I rather they truly deliver 4k and hopefully not along the lines of Checkerboard 4K . The pissing contest in exsitenst needs no more fuel and scorpio offering checkboard would just lead to you guys are copying, my this and that is better .
As a consumer i would love for MS to truly lead not just follow.

@Liqu1 d I would be bothered cause it would annoy as hell if all MS did was similar to Pro instead of being totally different.

[Goldby]

^not if. but when

[MyDietEqualsGames]

If leaks are right, it WILL. Lol. I don't mean to take joy in your irony, but we'll see when they drop the real information and go into specifics about what's under the hood. While I don't plan to buy one, I am always interested in tech, especially new tech.

[XXanderXX]

Here's hoping they go above & beyond like they are capable of.

[MRMagoo123]

Phil himself already said not all games will be 4k native....

[dsammy04]

My thing is scorpio should be more powerful then the ps4 pro. Will it matter is another discussion in itself. I like to reference the 360 came to market before the ps3. Was the ps3 more powerful than the xbox yes, did it matter no. What separated Sony from Microsoft besides free online was games point blank. And right now Microsoft doesnt have the first party studios Sony has. Of course Halo and Gears were big sellers for the 360 but with the X1 thats not the case.

I want to believe in Microsoft because when this next generation comes around a stronger competition leads to better things for us the gamers/consumers.

[rainslacker]

I think Halo and Gears are big sellers, but they don't do much to attract new customers IMO. Just fans of the series. Same with Forza.

I don't really see the currently known games being things that will really light a fire under the consumers to drive console sales.

MS needs something really big for E3 or the Scorpio reveal in order to entice customers, otherwise I think the Scorpio is just going to be primarily a system for people who just want an upgraded Xbox.

But I'd wager their biggest focus is how Scorpio will be the best way to play multi-plats....maybe with some exclusive 3rd party timed or otherwise, watch UHD movies, play older games through BC, and some hyperbolic comments on how MS is innovative and their line up for this year is the best ever.

[dsammy04]

You are 100% correct. I think the people who wanted to play Halo/Gears/Forza have already bought their X1, myself included. I think they will probably boast better visuals for 3rd party but these differences will be barely noticeable, at least compared to the pro. Maybe better lighting here and there, draw distance, textures, and etc. But look at games like Dishonored 2, Battlefield 1, Resident Evil all 3rd party games on PC and consoles with barely an advantage compared to the PS4 Pro(at least IMHO). The Scorpio will be somewhere inbetween PC and PS4 Pro.The question is will that difference be worth the Scorpio price tag. Will all games be 4K and allow games to run 60fps or higher. Guess we will have to wait til E3 for those answers.

What I want from Microsoft at E3, is them focusing on games that are in development that Xbox old and new fans can expect in 2018/19/20. Because despite the hype of Scorpio 2017 will be nothing but a hardware revision for Microsoft with the only exclusive I'm looking forward to being Crackdown 3. Cuphead was on the list but the platforming on the videos I saw didn't wow me but its still on the radar. After that I have no idea of what to be excited for. At least with my PS4 we have Death Stranding, Dayz Gone, God of War, The Last of Us 2, Detroit, and Uncharted Legacy.

[starchild]

There's a pretty big difference between PC and consoles on multiplatform games. Whether you are perceptive enough to notice it is irrelevant. It's like someone saying VHS movies don't look that much different than Ultra HD Bluray movies do. The difference in quality is substantial and most people can easily appreciate the difference.

[Tumaras]

Realistically the most I would hope for from Scorpio would be something close to NV 1070 graphics on PC, which is more in the 30-40 fps range in 4K. "Real" 4K is always subjective depending if you consider real 4K to be 60fps gameplay or 30-40. Personally I only consider 60fps 4K to be real 4K, and the 1080ti (a $700 card alone) is the first one really able to do that. With that type of hw the Scorpio would cost $1000 and I can't see that happening. So my guess would be something closer to the 1070 by comparison for performance, in the 30-40 fps 4K range. Better than PS4 Pro on performance numbers in that case, but debatable as to "true" 4K.

In the end though it will still come down to exclusives which PS4 has (and now Switch too), and XB1 is not just lacking but getting stomped on. Otherwise I can just as soon play a game on my PC if the title is available there too. I'd rather take a great game that I want to play like Horizon at 1080, or Zelda, or Nioh, etc. than a dull boring game at 4K, or even 8K ftm. I'd feel better on that front if the game in the Scorpio marketing video was an exclusive and not just Fallout 4.

[starchild]

Nope. It depends on the game. There are current gen games like Thief where I'm getting around 70 to 100fps at 4k and ultra settings on my GTX 1070. Alien Isolation is also up there with pretty high framerates (although I don't remember the exact figures). There are lots of games I can run around the 50 to 70fps range at 4k. There are more demanding games that are around the 30 to 40 range, but they aren't the majority.

Any of these games are smooth on my Gsync monitor so I don't know why they wouldn't count. They're anywhere from a little smoother to a lot smoother than most console games, so, again, how does that not count? Especially since most of the games the PS4 Pro can run at 4k are last gen games or non demanding games, and people are still claiming its a 4k console. I can run virtually every last gen game and indie/sports game at 4k and with framerates higher than 60fps (usually much higher).

[dsammy04]

Sorry to respond to you on this comment thread for some reason it wont allow me to reply back under you.

But VHS and Ultra HD are night and day. Thats a terrible example. I mean VHS is what 20 yr old technology PC is not 20 years ahead of consoles(like you said the Pro runs last gen games at 4k). I'll give you 4 yrs maybe. But considering the price it cost to run a PC I mean close to $400 just for the graphic card you have(Thats a PS4 Pro there). It should be able to handle things like 4k and more fps better than a console. However looking at numerous Digital Foundry videos and trust me I see PC's have and can handle better lighting, textures, pop ins, especially fps, and etc. But those differences aren't that remarkable. Those slight differences haven't sold me nor this generation of gamers to leave console gaming alone. Don't get me wrong there is a difference but people are not lining up around the block to get those results compared to consoles.

And if that was the case and people were fed up with the terrible graphics like you are trying to criticize that are so substantial people would obviously go to Ultra HD and leave VHS behind. But no VHS is still what most consumers prefer. And in that case it is consoles.

[Silly gameAr]

Go go PR rangers.

[mynameisdon]

If you want true 4k, I consider true 4k to be 4k at 60fps, that's why im riding the 1080p 60fps train right now until next year when I get the 1080ti, it's not worth it to me if I can't play 4k 60fps at high, untrained settings.

[starchild]

I would spend that money on a freesync or gsync monitor instead. Then you don't have to worry about hitting 60fps at all times. Even a gtx 1070 gives a good 4k experience in current games as long as you're playing on a variable refresh rate monitor.

[mynameisdon]

I literally never heard of them, they sound freaking amazing, so from what im gathering it escentially mimics motion interpolation without input lag? If so, the gtx 1070 would be beastly without having to struggle to maintain an extra 30 frames, interesting...

[Greyfoxdbz]

The difference between the true 4k and what the pro has is so negligible that it's barely worth mentioning. And the pro is available a year earlier.

[HotMoltenLava]

Man there are a lot of salty butt hurt fanboys in this thread today. Enjoy games on the machine you like and don't worry so much about something you don't intend to buy. It leads to a much healthier life.

[Fishy Fingers]

People claiming false advertising/lies realise that POS has to be approved by an advertising watchdog right?

I'm sure there is a caveat in the small print such as the majority of games, or first party games etc

Nothing worth getting worked up about, fact it has you talking means the advertising worked.

[zaherdab]

So we can describe the Xbox one as the last and sub 1080p console ? oh wait switch is here ...

[zaherdab]

So all 5 exclusives for the Scorpio with be true 4k games ?!!! alllll of them ?!

[starchild]

Hey I'm enjoying Nioh and Horizon Zero Dawn right now, but I find it humorous the way some of you act like exclusives are the only games that exist. In reality, exclusives make up a small percentage of the games released each year. Multiplatform games are by far the most numerous. I don't think it's unreasonable to care about how the majority of games look and run.

[zaherdab]

i am not saying that only exclusives matter but they are a big reason why to pick a system over another ... you can easily pick a pc over a ps4 if all u want is power ... if not for uncharted, horizon , untill dawn, last for us etc... Playstation would be pointless... 1st party games alone can't sustain a system but the lack of them can really hurt it

[BIGBOSS08]

Microsoft are digging themselves a hole with this. As soon as we see a game that isn't native 4k, everyone will eat them alive. Or does anyone actually believe every game will be native 4k? We still ain't even hitting 1080p on every game never mind 4k. Xbox fanboys can carry on having a wank dreaming about the Scorpio while the rest of us play awesome games.

[xsta1ker]

BigBoss microsft never said every game would be 4k stop stirring the pony flames
with your lies to justify a reason to come back in a future article and spout more false pony dribble as fax.
microsoft said it's up to the developers on how to use the hardware...please show me a link to your false claim 😢

[MRMagoo123]

well if not every game has to be 4k to be a true 4k console then MS claim that the Scorpio is the first and only true 4k console is a lie because ps4 pro has 4k native games. One way or another they are lying.

[BIGBOSS08]

Sorry I was busy playing horizon.. you can carry on wanking while you wait and dream over your xbox Scorpio. When the Scorpio's finally here you can have a wank looking at the menu in really true 4k haha.

[Exvalos]

MICROSOFT lying directly to your face.

[gamingisnotacrime]

the one and only over $500 console...

[Yohshida]

Is this salt lake city? Looks like a lot of people got triggered.

[InTheZoneAC]

Lol they're doing it again.
Lol so are the followers

[20live]

grabs pop corn

[medman]

They better deliver. They're half dead already, so considering the lack of first party excellence from Microsoft, the console better be what they claim it will be, and at a non-astronomical price to boot.

[LastcenuryRob]

LOL, sooo many Sony trolls on here, an article that isn't even about Sony. If the PS exclusives were so good these children would be playing the games, not mindlessly trolling.

[Stogz]

This statement is always what I consider to be the dumbest possible thing to say. So when you finally get another exclusive on your system, should we expect to never see you again on here til you're done with it?? Whenever you buy a new game you never go onto video game websites anymore until you beat it? Please explain to me how this goofy ass comment makes any real sense...

[trooper_]

It doesn't.

[starchild]

No, but he's right. You wouldn't expect people to have so much time to troll the way a lot of people clearly do here.

But the real question is, why troll in the first place?

[LastcenuryRob]

You're kidding right? Meh, I wouldn't expect someone who goes online for the only propose of trolling to understand a comment directed at trolls. Oh well. Maybe you should read the comments on here. A article about an MS product and look what is all around, mostly PS owners who do not and will not ever own an MS console spewing idiocy after idiocy...trolling. My first comment is accurate.

[Stogz]

@LastcenuryRob again what I wrote was plain and clear, sorry if people trashing MS bothers you so much, but your comment is goofy and makes no sense, hence the reason why you avoided a real response and instead posted more goofy nonsense...

[MRMagoo123]

I just platinumed horizon zero dawn but I have time to comment on MS lies.....odd huh

[rlow1]

Way to shake up the hornets nest. In reply to Christopher I think you have some points but a narrow view. Sony, Nintendo, Sega have all been guilty of trumpeting up the facts. Matter of fact the only platform were their isn't a lot of stretching of the truth is the PC. Not saying your wrong but making it sound as if only MS does this is biased. Matter of fact this whole industry including game websites thrive on fudging, I can go back all the way to the Atari 2600 and point to many instances of it. Just my 2 cents...peace

[Amongunz]

Ps4 fanboys! Assemble!

[fad632]

Scorpio can be native 4K all it wants, the fact still remains that I would rather play PS4 in 1080p and have there exclusives than play Scorpio games in 4K and have xbox exclusives.

Plus I've got a very capable PC so I'm more than ready for any Microsoft exclusive in 4K

[Sevir]

True 4k using Sparse ("aka Checkerboard") rendering.

Lol, And the Xbox fans are eating it up.

[jasonpugh]

I don't know about anyone else but the resolution discussions need to die. It's seriously getting old. There's nothing to see here, move on.

[butchertroll]

First true 4k console? So, that means every game on Scorpio will be in 4k. We'll see about that.

[yeahokwhatever]

#FakeNews

[dreadz74]

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[kevnb]

These are the same people who said the og xbox one would have some 4k games.

[Condemnedman]

at the end of the day Scorpio will be far more powerful than any ps console so get over if Sony fan boys

[MRMagoo123]

but power doesn't matter right .......

[Ghostin666]

And this is why their PR is crap and creates more resentment. Ignoring the fact that the competition is doing 4k, a year before your product, with excellent results and a great price, with great variety of software...

[Mr Lahey]

All this talk about native 4k..
On my 4k tv, everything on my ps4 pro is displayed as 3840 × 2160p. I have no idea what games are actually native unless i read about it online. Like with Nioh i read it's native 4k at 30fps. All i know is i play it at 60fps because it looks and feels so much smoother that way. I can't tell any difference resolution wise. I have a 55" tv.

[starchild]

This comment sounds eerily similar to a lot of comments made by Xbox fanboys during the first half of this generation.

[Mr Lahey]

I'm just talking from experience. Everything on my ps4 pro is displayed in 4k and it looks amazing. A fair bit sharper than my old ps4s 1080p output. On a 55" tv it is impossible for me to tell what is native and what is not.

[1Victor]

There's advertisements and deceptive advertisements one is illegal the other is not if you don't know the difference you'll disagree with this comment

[trooper_]

True 4k...yeah right.

[chuckyj1]

MS, be careful how you brand it... There will be big time consumer backlash if it falls short of being the "First and only true 4K console"... That leaves little room for error if 1080p games start popping up on the system.

[MRMagoo123]

if anything under 4k native comes onto the console they are lying, because if not every single game is in native 4k then they can't say they are the first and only 4k system because ps4 pro has around 30 native 4k games already and the Scorpio isn't out for months yet.

the only way for their statement to be true is if every single game released is 4k native, otherwise it's in the same boat as ps4 pro therefore can't be the first.

[frostypants]

So no devs will leverage checkerboarding? Is that what they're saying? I mean, if devs DO, then their argument is BS. And if devs DON'T, they'll be sacrificing performance.

Kind of a stupid position for MS to put devs in.

Or is this more about misleading by focusing on 4K disc support? Because that's even more tenuous.

[chuckyj1]

Checkerboarding isn't native 4K.

[Razuel]

seems like it would need 8-12k teraflops. imo.

[Razuel]

Now, I was under the impression that HDR was not feasible @ 2k screens. Well looks like sony will try it on upcoming sets this year. The PS4 Pro is not really 4k capable, and I have my doubts about the scorpio but gaming at 2k (w/ HDR) should be stellar. source: http://www.flatpanelshd.com...

[MasterCornholio]

Oh that's really nice. I was hoping that some day there would be 1080P screens that support HDR.

[Razuel]

4k undermines gpu advancement, leaving us in the stone age. yes we get more colors, and higher resolution. Both not all that necessary for gamers. We need better visuals, frame rate, and especially physics. Hopefully HDR is around 70% what you would get on 4k, that would be really exciting.

[MasterCornholio]

Well to tell you the truth my games look great at 1080P on my monitor. 4K seems like a waste of resources at this point to me.

[nerdman67]

I feel like the exclusives this year are pretty bare because they are saving everything for Scorpio.
If they don't deliver they will be in bad shape

[DarXyde]

That's cool.

It'll be worth it for console multiplatform titles with premium performance, but I'd never buy one. No amount of resolution buffs will make me drop what I'm doing in Horizon or Nier or Zelda.

I've come to accept that I really don't care about anything after Cuphead anymore for Xbox. Between PS4 and Switch, I have enough to tide me over for the foreseeable future. I don't speak for everyone though. For some, the investment will be worth it. But for me, this is no different than seeing Suicide Squad being hyped up because the actors did a lot to prepare for the roles while offering barely anything of substance in the movie itself. There's nothing beyond Scorpio's power that really captures me. I don't ever see myself buying a Pro, but even that I would say is worth my time more for the simple fact that I know I'll have games I really want to play.

[Rimfro]

3 of the top 4 articles' comment sections are Playstation fanboys hating on the other two consoles. This site is so freaking toxic. If you want 4K, you game on PC. The PS4 Pro is hardly the greatest. Sony isn't the be all, end all of gaming either. Get over yourselves. Jeez. Fanboys are typically unable to afford anything else, so they troll to validate their paltry gaming budget. I bought Horizon. Now it's collecting dust while I play Zelda. Spoiler Alert: Zelda is VASTLY superior in every way. (It got WAY BETTER reviews too!) Go sit on your Dualshocks.

[DarXyde]

I agree that I feel Zelda is the better game, but I wouldn't say it's superior in every way. I've noticed no performance issues with Horizon, for example. Additionally, the leveling up elements, AI, crafting, and combat mechanics in Horizon are pretty fantastic.

You might be trolling, you might not. To say it's "vastly superior" though. You're on your own there.

[arkard]

That will use the same checkerboard rendering as the ps4 pro? Go home Microsoft, you drunk.

[Angel911]

How do you know? have you seen the hardware or any games running on it? 4k30fps is easily achievable with 6 TF GPU.. Digital foundry article was based n leak of last june...Nothing is confirmed

My 1070 (6tf card) can run witcher @ 4k30fps locked...playing Resident evil 7 4k@ 30fps right now....

[arkard]

I guess we will wait and see.. The leaks leading up to Scorpios reveal have been true so far, no reason to believe this one won't also be true.

[CP_Company]

are you idiot? or you don't read? Spencer,himself,said that just some games going to run in native 4k,every other games runs in checherboard.

[Angel911]

Nothing wrong in this.

Only Mantis Burn Racing and last gen TLOU runs at native 4K with fluctuating frame-rate with options to reduce resolution to get 60fps..Rest all Pro games are either 1440p or 1800p with upscaling..Checkerboard 4k is not true 4k..It's multiple 1080p frames upscaled to 4k..It's elegant solution but not true 4k - 3840 X 2160p

Ignorant Sony fanboys are just salty that Pro is one half-assed underpowered system which is not designed for true 4k..

You need atleast 1070 or higher equivalent (aka 6 tf card) to get native 4k@ 30fps.

[Aenea]

LOL!

[MrCrimson]

60fps pls.

[DrumBeat]

If every single game on Scorpio is native 4K capable, then MS can say that. If I find out that it isn't, this will be a lie/misleading as far as I'm concerned.

[ultimize]

OK Real 4K console
but games are up scaled from 1080P?
Useless

[windblowsagain]

Depends on fps.

11-12 tflops is needed for 4k 60fps native. Look at Nvidia titan and 1080ti.

6 tflops will buy you 4k in many games at 30fps.

[FyBy]

Ms is really desperate (but I understand why they do it). Pro has also native 4k titles. Scorpio will have more of them. Thats all.

[RiPPn]

Donald Trump approves this message.

[_LarZen_]

If Microsoft dont calm down their PR nonsense then Xbox gamers will be just as disappointed as they were with the PS4Pro in regards of native 4K.

That said Project Scorpio will probably have more games in native 4K. Or at least at higher base resolutions. But in most cases it will probably be checkerboard rendering at 1800p. The difference is not THAT big from a native 2160p and the overhead will be used to make the games look a bit better then on the PS4Pro.

Had a PS4Pro since launch and in some games the difference is just plain awesome compared to the PS4. IF you got a 4K HDR TV that is. It's gonna be great when Xbox fans get this visual boost also. Everyone deserves beautiful games! :D

[Angel911]

Nothing wrong in promoting console capabilities. They are not stupid to promote true 4k if box is not capable of true 4k...6tf can achieve true 4k with some tweaks @ 30fps...My 1070 is around 6TF only and it can do true 4k @ 30fps.

MS is testing games on Scorpio for over 2-3 years and Shannon loft said all first party games will be true 4k on our machine but they can't promise same for 3rd party as devs will decide what's best for them.

[Angel911]

And checkerboard 4k is not true 4k..Yes, it's very elegant and effective solution but it's NOT true 4K

[Saranya]

Are you boring about this? - Yes i do.

[Major_Glitch]

What's that MS? You're STILL not talking about any new exclusives coming out? Why am I not surprised?

[Markusb33]

More misleading statements from MS the BS machine. Can anyone tell the difference just by looking at checkerboard, sparse rendering or Native 4k? Try Horizon on the pro it's staggering. Better quality of games and output is good for everyone but don't pretend your the first and only one doing it. Just keeps me away from MS as the spin is just BS as usual. Just be honest it might actually get better results from consumers and give you more respect.

[ssmilloy36]

glad I didn't buy that fake 4k xbox to go along with my fake 4k tv

[fiveby9]

Can't see myself buying a Scorpio. I can always play MS first party games on my PC. And frankly if MS sells the consoles at a loss or break even maybe MS doesn't care. Software has much better profitability so I have to think MS making Scorpio as an alternative to a gaming pc but as an appliance. So as a PC owner and PS4, I think my bases are covered. Although as it stand MS games lineup is not that appealing.

[MilkMan]

Nice how Microsoft's answer to a lame console is to make another one in a mid-life cycle.
Didn't Wii teach anything? It's not the console but the software. What they need to fix is at the very core of this company. It needs a serious intervention.

[madpuppy]

Enjoy the Scorpio when it comes out, because after it, you will have to play Xbox games on a Win10 or better PC, This is MS Middle finger to Sony as it's nearing the release of it's last console. It's sad because Sony will no longer have to worry about competition and can get fat and lazy. Here's hoping that someone else comes along and takes MS place....

[gazgriff2k12]

will it have any games worth playing?

[CaEsAr-]

This means nothing unless I see great exclusives like the PS4 is getting.

[sorane]

So true. The pro is just wayyyyy too weak for true 4k gaming in all but the simplest games.

[LexHazard79]

People that say MS are misleading...theyre just trying to get your mind away from thinking how great the Scorpio is going to be.

1080p/60 and true 4K gaming incoming.

If they put that on their Scorpio pre order page. Then thats exactly what it will do...

It will have more native 4K games, 4K blu ray(beats streaming all the time). And soon be able to deliver Mix Reality(VR and AR) gaming and apps.

Still Day One.

[King_Lothric]

Microsoft PR lies once again. The PS4 Pro is the current and first console to run 4K NATIVE games. Not all games of course.

"True 4K" marketing by Microsoft sounds like the "Power of the cloud" PR. MS shoot themselves with these statements.

[Doopy]

The pro sucks. Worse controller, worse online and now worse graphics. All it has is a bunch of japanese games that no one outside of Japan buys lol.

[Big_Game_Hunters]

I love articles like these because it shows Sony fanboys are complete hypocrites. Talking about resolution is only okay when Sony does it.

[Artemidorus]

You got to show us that first. Second provide some new games

[Dragonscale]

Remind anyone of the xbone s ad that said the same. MS at it again with their fud lol.

[PainUzumaki]

In order for me to even get interested in this thing MS E3 is going to have to be the best thing that happened in gaming history. They need to come out with tons of exclusives with lots of gameplay of how great this Scorpio suppose to be....other than that dont trust anything MS says

[Nodoze]

.....with no real games to speak of to leverage all this power. It is like owning a Bugatti, but not having access to gas. There is NO POINT.

Also as a side note, I am going to giggle when this thing releases with a $600 price tag and ends up sitting on the shelf. They have used the word premium multiple times. This is NOT a mass market product, and as such will NOT be widely produced OR adopted. Prepare for the denial.

[Gemmol]

this the worse site ever, look at sony fans defend, this is amazing,

[Smokingunz]

Ps4 pro does not do 4k and and there are no 4k games on the pro it's not powerful enough and that checker board is upscaling is bullshit!

[IamTylerDurden1]

MS and xbox fans can brag all they want about potential specs and the future, but Sony fans are busy playing Horizon Zero Dawn. Phil and his faithful can elude to the PS4 Pro being weak, but Horizon on a proper 4K HDR set is absolutely jaw dropping and it sets a benchmark for open world games and games in general.