The race for 4K: how Project Scorpio targets ultra HD gaming

Eurogamer: The race for 4K gaming has begun. PlayStation 4 Pro is in the marketplace, and while success in supporting ultra HD gaming varies dramatically between releases, an established series of techniques is in place that is already capable of effectively servicing a 4K resolution with a comparatively modest level of GPU power. In the wake of its E3 2016 reveal for the new Project Scorpio console, Microsoft began to share details with developers on how they expect to see 4K supported on its new hardware. A whitepaper was released on its development portal, entitled 'Reaching 4K and GPU Scaling Across Multiple Xbox Devices'. It's a fascinating outlook on Microsoft's ultra HD plans - and it also reveals more about the Scorpio hardware itself.

[BlakHavoc]

It'll be interesting to see if MS can become the platform majority play 3rd party games on. If it's that much more impressive than the pro and the price is right, I think it's possible. They have to do a lot of things correct with this hardware but it's definitely intriguing.

[ShadowKnight]

The price will be the key imo. Ntm hopefully they show some new first party games as well. E3 can't come soon enough.

"In the wake of CES, there is renewed speculation that Scorpio may feature more advanced Zen CPU cores. However, a throwaway comment within the Microsoft whitepaper on how developers may wish to use Scorpio's capabilities again makes this seem unlikely." Hmm 🤔

[Gazondaily]

Zen is unlikely here. It will be a more powerful Pro basically.

At least talk of this being a whole new generation console can die now. Right Kingthrash?!

[Overload]

All the talk about this system is now so hilarious in retrospect.

[Gazondaily]

@Overload

What's so hilarious about it? Weren't you the one saying this was being treated as a new generation console?

Seems in line with what MS announced to be fair. 6TF beast. Some things like checkerboard rendering is disappointing to me (although many here said it wasn't up scaling so THEY shouldn't have problems with it).

The whole 'it's a new gen' console argument goes down the toilet.

True 4k rendering however might go by the wayside too based on this but, it will be the most powerful console on the market. That isn't changing.

[BlakHavoc]

How developers will utilize the increase in power is interesting, will they create a single version of their games that are meant to run correspondingly on all supported consoles or will they create different SKUs based on the capabilities of the particular hardware? Yes Scorpio will be more powerful but will we see those benefits in 3rd party titles or just first party titles? So many questions left unanswered right now, but all are essential to whether or not I think it's a worthy investment. And like you said, the price has to be right.

[Overload]

@Septic

No, I said. The closer we get to it people talk about it like a next gen console.

[TankCrossing]

Yup it looks like the white paper is quite specific on how to support Xbox One (S) and Scorpio in tandem, but more importantly... PC! :D

[Overload]

The damage controlling right now is hilarious. Do people not remember AMD's Ryzen? True 4K?

[Gazondaily]

@Overload

"The damage controlling right now is hilarious."

Where is the damage control here btw?

[Overload]

@Septic

The changes in tone are enough

"Xbox Beast"
http://n4g.com/news/1989912...

Sony's PS4 Pro is not a "premium" product
http://n4g.com/news/1959497...

That's your site isn't it?

[Gazondaily]

@Overload

I asked you a question. Where is the damage limitation here? Couldn't answer it here but what did you refetence?

"Xbox beast"

Errrr....look above. I just called it a 6TF beast in this article. Sorry is this now not 6 teraflops?

Then you referenced one of the other writers articles. And where on earth is the damage limitation? Your point is?

So once again....damage limitation. Where is it?

[stuna1]

What I find interesting is the white paper also suggest Scorpio using Checkerboard rendering as well! Not meaning to step on toes here, but Microsoft themselves spoke out negatively against the PS4 Pro use of the technique yet the only thing that's changed is name only. What's really funny is Xbox supporters also tried to blackball the technique!

Also all the same supporters talking about the tech in Scorpio were in essence guestimating everything, but using as fact in their petty little arguments. And through all of that, now you see responses like "At least talk of this being a whole new generation console can die now." WTF???

If anything this should be raising concerns! What I see here is a possible scaling back of the whole Project Scorpio project, because as so many analyst on these boards have stated time and time again Scorpio will be contending with High-End PC's!? How so when PC's can do 4K nativily and PS4 Pro and possibly Scorpio will have to settle for Checkerboard rendering often times? But when PS4 Pro was reported to do it, it was all jokes.

One good thing out of all of this is it can now be looked at as being affordable.

@Septic

Really I think it doesn't means much if Microsoft does do away with Checkerboard rendering. The fact remains they were considering it says it all! Microsoft went on record stating Checkerboard rendering was inferior on the PS4 Pro, but yet they were going to use it? It doesn't make sense. Plus how can you downplay something, but plan on doing it yourself? That's about as Hypocritical as you can get! Examples like this are reasons people don't take Microsoft word on things, because they usually turn out to be half truths. A half of a truth is still considered a lie.

@TheCommentator

That's not the point I'm trying to make. The point is why try to downplay a IMO asset on a competitors machine when you have every intention of using that very same asset!? This is no different to how they tried to downplay HDR when Sony updated the vanilla PS4. Seem to me that somethings are not impressive or important unless Microsoft themselves are at the forefront of doing them. Example the crossbuy/crossplay feature that Sony had on the PS3/Vita. It wasn't that big a deal then, but all of a sudden it is now since Microsoft is doing it.

[rainslacker]

Seems that it is an upclocked Polaris according to the article. I can't see MS going with Zen just due to costs, and it's not absolutely necessary when they can customize a Polaris chip, which according to the article, it looks like they did, and it makes sense they would.

Was interesting that MS is strongly recommending checkerboarding. Given how much Xbox gamers have crapped on the rendering technique which has been around for a while, it'll be fun to see if they now accept that it is actually a native 4K resolution, because I'm sure most games will actually use the technique since 6TF is not going to get the same results in terms of graphics quality with straight up 4K rendering.

There is a silver lining to checkerboarding though. It means the look will actually probably be better than the PS4P, because more power can be given to things like texture detail and lighting. I think most devs would go that route in these early days of 4K, because the average gamer is still going to be impressed by it.

@TheCommentator below

Scaling back isn't as easy as scaling up. Game design often over shoots the hardware already, and then is scaled back, but the actual design remains pretty close to what the devs hope to accomplish. Targeting Scorpio, then trying to cut it back 4X is a pretty big task.

Anyhow, on topic of if devs will use checkerboarding on one platform and not the other, Im afraid that's not really how it works. It is much easier to simply use it for both. it requires less work to move from one to the other, as the rendering pipeline stays the same. If they mix it up between platforms, that basically makes it so now they have three different platforms to build to...potentially 4 if you include PC if they aren't targeting DX. You have the OG systems for this gen, the checkerboard for PS4, standard rendering for Scorpio, and then potentially standard resolutions for PC.

That's a lot of different rendering pipelines to work with, all of which requires their own optimization, and that's not really how development works from a purely financial stand point. Less work is usually preferred. On top of that, the lead platform, if that's even that appicable anymore, is typically the one that sells the most software. Last gen it shifted to the one where it was just easier to focus on the more complex one.

[GtR35olution]

Im glad i bought a ps4 pro and ill be playing horizon zero dawn day one. Getting resident evil 7 today to play on psvr which a lot of people are saying is the best way to play the game.

I see a lot people have been talking about waiting over a year for scorpio so they can play games with slightly better resolution when all scorpio games can be enjoyed on a pc which can be a lot more powerful. To each his own. Im glad sony releases a lot of exclusive titles where the best place i can experience them is on a ps4

[TheCommentator]

Seroiusly, to everybody still saying that Scorpio won't be native 4k just stop. AMD says it takes less than 4x more processing to render 4k over 1080p. Scorpio is at least 4.5x more powerful than XB1 at 6tf. Making an educated guess from here is child's play. Can someone show me any evidence to the contrary?

@ Stuna

Sure, Scorpio CAN use checkerboard rendering, but it won't always need to, even when the Pro does, because it's more powerful. Also, Scorpio AND XB1 will both be able to use half float precision now too thanks to the introduction of SM6.0, which is something that only the Pro can use as far as I'm aware, which means better looking games for all MS consoles once Scorpio game development is in full swing!

[Eonjay]

Nobody really wants it. People really want games. Because Sony inflicted a inferiority complex on Microsoft, they are going with hardware over games... which makes sense when you realize they are going UWP anyway.

[TheCommentator]

@ Stuna's edit:

The issue I have here is that games will likely be tailored to the most powerful console and scaled down to the others. Native 4k would therefore be the Scorpio standard, but devs can use checkerboarding if they want to use the power of the console for better effects (like a high IQ 1440p option). Also, MS used checkerboarding on Quantum Break and got raked over the coals for it, right? Given the fact that the Pro was known as PS4k before details were known there were bound to be people picking on the fact that most Pro games wouldn't render 4k natively.

One more thing. If you read the article, the author states that a 900p image would need 5.75x more pixels for 4k. While he surmises then that Scorpio won't get those titles to native 4k, the author later states that the tile based rasterizer that's debuting in Vega may allow for 900p games to hit native 4k as well. Ironically, this HW accelerator actually debuted in the XB1 which is also FL12.1 compliant.

[Kingthrash360]

@septic
I never said there was gunna be a new generation with the scorpio. ..MS said themselves that they won't be doing generational consoles anymore.
I said it would be a steam machine xbox. You wish it was a new console tho. Them maybe all that power wouldn't go to waste being held back by a weak console.
I just hope they have actual games for
It and a competitive price. Anything over 399.99 is gunna hurt them. With 2 other consoles with larger library of diverse games and actual exclusives will cost less it will be an uphill battle for this to be successful.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

$400 might be possible now if this true. Pricing above $500 is pricing yourself out the market so as long as Scorpio's price doesn't fall above that it should be fine.

[dcbronco]

Septic in the long run Zen is cheaper than another version of jaguar. Zen will be in every AMD machine. Jaguar in twenty million at best. Zen will hit half the CPU market or around 150 million CPUs. Plus AMD will continue to do constant refinements.

Jaguar means design, shrink, low order cost and maturation are all on Microsoft. Zen puts that on AMD. Zen gives developers breathing room for CPU intensive features Jaguar couldn't begin to do, It gives you all of the advantages of the new architecture and its feature set. And overtime it cost less. Plus with UWP you have a ton of games that immediately port over.

[NewMonday]

"On Project Scorpio, a half-resolution effect rendered at 1080p and bilaterally up-sampled to 4K.. the second major technique it advocates is 'sparse rendering' - which is better known in the post-PS4 Pro era as checkerboarding"

"On the face of it, the in-depth discussion of techniques like this may be suggesting that Scorpio isn't the 'true 4K' console that Microsoft marketed it as at E3 2016"

exactly as I predicted

[Unspoken]

MS never stated every game will be in 4K, but it will be more suited to a 4K TV than a PS4P which is what matters.

[RegorL]

@Unspoken

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

"true 4k gaming" [true => native]

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

"the highest res, the best frame rate, no compromises" [=> 4k, 60Hz, native]

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

"we can render at 60 Hz, we can render fully uncompressed pixels" [=> 60Hz, native]

and so on...

Well, no statement in itself promises all games 4k @ 60 Hz native, but they clearly intended to give that impression...

[Unspoken]

Did you even watch the rest of the videos? They even say they can't wait to see what the DEVELOPERS will do with that power. It's up to the developer to render in 4K and decide how to render the rest of the assests. Even PC games do the same, Overwatch for example render's at 4K 60fps but the character shadows render at half the framerate.

There will be "true" 4K titles; games like Killer Instinct, Ori, and Forza Motorsport. If dev's want to show more eye candy and complex scenes then they will have to make the sacrifice. It's a $3K machine with a SLI Titan XP's in it.

[Puertorock77]

Doubt it. Never in console history has a more powerful but more expensive console become the platform majority for 3rd party games. Scorpio have the best version of games, but only the minority will go for it.

[TankCrossing]

The PS4 Pro is evidence enough. The PS4 Slim continues to outsell it by a distance.

There is a market for powerful hardware, but it seems to be way smaller than the market for cheap hardware.

[mcstorm]

@Puertorock77 this is true but what will be interesting is to see how 3rd partys make their games. At the moment most are ported to the xbox one but with the new windows 10 app side and Scorpio coming you may find developers may make the game for PC/Scorpio/One and port it to the PS4/pro which will be what MS want in the long run.
Its the final peace of the puzzle for the xbox/windows program and I'm sure MS will show all when they show us Scorpio off.

[BlakHavoc]

I think two factors will weight in greatly and determine whether or not this console is adopted as the primary place to play majority of games. Price is key, and the difference graphically and in performance can't be subtle, but instead obvious. I think gamers will be willing to pay $100 more than a pro if the difference is substantial. Casuals also like to have the fanciest toy on the market, same reason why ppl buy expensive brands of merchandise when often the quality is not particularly better. If it's more than $500 I think it will be hard to convince the market, especially if it doesn't stand out compared to the competition.

@tank

I think that's a direct reflection of my comment above, the pro is more powerful than the standard ps4 but imo the difference in quality right now is not worth the upgrade. Will it be 2 years down the line? Maybe, but I don't think developers are really utilizing the increase in power and I don't think consumers are convinced. It's really simple actually, if MS wants ppl to buy this thing, the difference in power must be thrown in our faces.

[Puertorock77]

@mcstorm Developers choosing which platform to make their games on primarily comes down to one thing, money. The original Xbox was by far the most powerful and easier platform to develop for yet the PS2 was the primary console for game development simply because it was selling more games than the OG Xbox.

Publishers are concerned with dollars and cents and not so much TFLOPS and resolution. Ofcourse their are exceptions like the Wii vs PS3/360 where Wii had the majority of the marketshare but developers primarily made games for 360/PS3. That was because Wii didn't;t have the power to utilize the tools developers had and games sales were terrible when it came to games these developers were making.

So in the end it still came down to dollar and cents.

@BlakHavoc Hardcore gamers will be willing to pay, Causal gamers aren't paying $400 for a console and then another $400 for a small 4KTV just to play Red Dead Redemption 2. Majority of gamers was to play Mass Effect Andromeda, Red Dead 2, COD etc in the cheapest amount fashionable.

[mcstorm]

Puer I know that but what I am saying is Microsoft have just made it easier for developers to make games across their platforms. Windows 10, Xbox, Windows mobile so making a game for Windows 10 makes it easy to port to the others and the same the other way round.

[Puertorock77]

@mcstorm MS did make it easier but not to the point where XB can be the main platform to develop on. Take for example Bioware with Mass Effect Andromeda. It won't support Scorpio at all. Bioware officially stated that if Mass Effect were to support Scorpio it would come from a GOTY edition. Keep in mind Mass Effect Andromeda is on XB1 and PC back by EA money.

[LastCenturyRob]

You may want to wait until a price point is set. "IF" the price is competitive with the PSpro it will sell very well.

[christocolus]

@Blackhavoc

Intriguing indeed. I can't wait for the reveal.

Also Eurogamer -

"The whitepaper we've seen - dated to just after Scorpio's E3 reveal - only confirms no ESRAM, boosted L2 cache and support for memory compression technology. Beyond that, all we have to go on is Microsoft's stated 320GB/s bandwidth, eight CPU cores - plus a motherboard rendering strongly suggesting 12GB of GDDR5 memory. How the final spec will shape up remains to be seen"

[Moonman]

I'll continue to play third party games on PS4 thank you very much.

[KakashiHotake]

For that very reason I've been holding out on buying a PS4 Pro. I want to wait and see what Scorpio is all about. In the meantime my PS4 has been doing just fine.

Edit: I knew this comment would get downvoted. It's amazing how biased people on this site is. If you say anything that sounds even remotely rational and not pro playstation people are quick to disagree. You guys need to grow up.

[BlakHavoc]

Ya my interest in the Scorpio exists because I want to know if it provides a better place to experience 3rd party content.

[Ju]

With that user interface the wait is not necessary. Unless they change the OS completely, I prefer the PS4. The Games will look the same, the difference (at 4K with HDR) will look marginal.

[Aenea]

If I read this correctly it won't be 'much more impressive' than the Pro, just a bit better resulting in slightly better looking games....

[BlakHavoc]

That's my concern, technically it can me more impressive but if the distinction isn't obvious it will not sell a whole lot.

[Ju]

It's exactly what it is sans the marketing hype. 4.5 vs. 6 which is the 35% or something, but with the pixeldensity of a 4K screen. Which simply will be invisible.

[starchild]

That's not exactly true, Ju. I can see very noticeable differences in multiplatform games between my PS4 Pro and my PC with a GTX 1070, so I would expect that differences would still be noticeable between PS4 Pro and Scorpio.

Will they be significant differences? Well, I think it depends on the person and how perceptive they are, how much they care about visual quality, etc. In general I'd say the difference will be similar to what we see between PS4 and XB1 today.

[butchertroll]

Well, well, well. What do we have here. Something is changed on official Scorpio site : http://www.xbox.com/en-US/p...

Now :

http://i.imgur.com/OmDFsKm....

Before :

http://i.imgur.com/pRDrq3N....

So, no high-fidelity VR and "true" 4k gaming is pretty misleading. You know what MS said : "uncompressed pixels". But checkerboard on Scorpio says : Hi!

[Aenea]

Checkerboard rendering is not compressing pixels tho. That whole "uncompressed pixels" and "highest quality pixels" was just marketing speak, means nothing in the real world.

That they removed high fidelity VR is a tad weird tho, altho, if you think about it, the VR headsets out now that they could use have a higher resolution AND need to run at 90fps resulting in quite a few more pixels to push per second than the PS4/Pro needs to for PSVR (1.875 more pixels per second with only 40% more power) so maybe they figured there wouldn't be a VR headset on the market they could use to get better looking VR than on the PSVR+Pro combo?

[rainslacker]

Marketing is all about trying to make something more than it is. There is no such thing as a compressed pixel. A lot of companies like to make up their own terms for things, to try and distinguish their products, even if what they're saying isn't even that special. 4K itself is rife with all sorts of marketing terms from different companies, and there are actually only a few standards which define it....although the official standards seem to keep making new ones to make it more annoying.

MS intention is to distract or distinguish itself from what Sony has to offer. That's pretty obvious. But ultimately, what they will have is going to be pretty much the same. It'll obviously have better performance for the same stuff, but it won't be everything that MS is making it out to be across the board.

I recall Sony got sued for such tactics with KZ:SF multiplayer. Can't wait until someone sues these 4K promoters for all the crap they're pulling.....and I mean that across the board, not directed at MS itself, because Sony has had their share of misdirection in actual marketing, but tend to be pretty clear in press releases to those of us who talk about it.

[medman]

@blakhavoc
Microsoft's problem will be the slew of Sony exclusives on tap for 2017 and 2018. Sony is cleaning up and you could argue they haven't hit their stride as far as their first party studio games go. But that changes big time in 2017 and 2018. So for those gamers who can't/don't want both, it's going to come down to more than 3rd party titles performing better on Scorpio....they will have to decide whether they want Sony's exclusives or are willing to miss out on games like Spider-Man, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Detroit Become Human, Wild, Death Stranding, TLOU Part II, Nioh, Nier Automata, Days Gone, Persona 5, Ni No Kuni II, Uncharted The Lost Legacy, etc. etc. etc.

Also, let's not hand out prizes for 3rd party superiority yet....that really will depend on optimization by developers, and 3rd party cross console development has shown us that most times, developers target the lowest common denominator for performance....so even though you may have a Pro or Scorpio, devs still target ps4 and xbox one because those consoles will count for the majority of their software sales. You'll get a bump with the newer hardware, but how much tangible difference will we see between Pro and Scorpio? Probably not much, as to take full advantage of each individual piece of hardware is just going to cost the devs more money...money they probably won't be willing to spend. So essentially, the Pro and Scorpio version will probably be more similar to each other than they are different, just as we see with 3rd party titles for ps4 and xbox one. Not much between them, even though the ps4 is the more capable machine.

Scorpio will have to depend on "exclusives" to show what it can really do, and we see that thus far Microsoft first party studios haven't exactly been blowing the doors off and stunning us with their games. Perhaps Crackdown will be a launch game for Scorpio and it will be phenomenal, but I'm not holding my breath, that's for sure. I hope to be surprised, but.......

[BlakHavoc]

Ya that's my biggest concern is that devs won't utilize the full capabilities of the superior consoles. Also I agree and think there's no argument that Sony is about to hit their stride with exclusives, with the likes of GoW, Spidey, Days Gone, Death Stranding, Tlou...(takes deep breath)...GT Sport, Horizon, P5, so on and so on lol. The big guns are coming.

[Raiden]

All MS needs to do is have games coming from there studios, if MS has 12 new IPs per year in the works then they stand a chance, (what was Sony doing during the PS3 years, preparation for games) in the end it's all about the games first then the features, this was the critical mistake they made last time out, Don Mattricks and his team failed the brand and its fan buy not understanding the public needs correctly, give the people what they want, GAMES.

[BlakHavoc]

My thing is that I don't think MSs first party studios are as capable as Sony's for one, and secondly I think their two most talented studios are working on franchises that have been associated with the Xbox brand for over a decade, so their not going anywhere. But yes, they need to build a library that's diverse and compelling, I just don't think that can be done through their inner studios. Their best bet is partnerships with 2nd and 3rd party teams.

[UltraNova]

So based on this whitepaper MS is advocating checkerbaord techiniques?

"The second major technique it advocates is 'sparse rendering' - which is better known in the post-PS4 Pro era as checkerboarding. Not only does Microsoft advocate the same technique for Scorpio, it also cites the same impressive work by Ubisoft seen in Rainbow Six Siege - to the point where the exact same presentation shown to me by Mark Cerny a few months back is referenced in the whitepaper."

This doesnt fit with the whole 'true 4K console' thing...

[ShadowKnight]

If this is true its because Microsoft is trying to keep the cost down so they can sell it at $399 to $450 my guess. I believe the Zen processors are going to be to expensive at least the 8 core version.

http://www.pcgamesn.com/amd...

[UltraNova]

Affordability should be their primary target, for better or for worse but still make a console that is as powerfull as it can be when its released even if it means loosing a few bucks with each unit sold.

MS needs to sell a lot of units this time around and bring the fight to Sony. If they ask for 500 bucks I think they have willingly abondoned ship.

[butchertroll]

You won't see ZEN in Xbox Scorpio. That dream is dead. AMD made a clear statement few months ago that ZEN semi-custom chips will be available beyond 2017.

[ShadowKnight]

I agree I'm just curious and trying to figure out how they're going to keep it affordable and keep the cost down. You see what Sony had to do to keep the pro at $399. Just an overclock cpu, one extra 1GB of Dram memory, 4.2 teraflops gpu, and no Ultra HD player and the results you get a $399 dollar console that's primary focus is on games.

[BlakHavoc]

Checkerboard rendering is the exactly what Cerny was referring to during the pro reveal right?...

[tyasia0]

I don't know why people think this will keep costs down. it's still going to be a $499 console of they want to have 6tf nothing has changed.

[Ju]

"MS needs to sell a lot of units this time around". See this is the problem. A PS4 goes for 249 (or at least you can find some), if this drops to 199, and the Scorpio is twice that, it will be a hard sell. At this price a $200 is your high volume device, even the Pro - even if less then $400 by then - will not be the high margin console for Sony. MS has no low volume machine, because listening to most people here, all XBoxers will switch to Scorpio day one. This will be a tough sell for MS. A $199 XBO will probably be competitive, though.

[Gazondaily]

No Zen processor and reliance on checkerboard rendering is disappointing.

The most powerful console in the world but not as powerful as many fans wanted. Shame really. Well based on these leaks...which tbh are most likely legit considering the source.

[TankCrossing]

http://www.overclockers.co.... [insert "unlimited power!" meme here]

[--Onilink--]

they never say anything about RELIANCE, they actually quite directly say that they understand that developers might want to spend the extra power on something other than resolution.

So checkerboard rendering + higher res textures + better lightning/shadows/draw distance

or

Just native 4k

Qutite frankly, I very much prefer that they are giving the option to devs to use checkerboad and apply the extra power (its not like the GPU has changed) in other things.

I wouldnt be surprised if 1st party games do end up being Native 4k (like the article says there are already some) just so they can boast about it , not necesarily because its the best way to go

[rainslacker]

The option would have been there either way. It's not something that is locked out by the GPU. It's pipeline function, and any modern GPU can handle it for various resolutions.

But the article said MS advocates and even strongly points to examples of why it'd be better to go that route. MS wants devs to get their games to 4K, and run well to make the console look better. If they use checkerboarding, the games will look better because graphics themselves can be bumped up, with a pretty insignificant hit to clarity in some cases of high motion. But the better graphics are going to go much further than crisp graphics, and for that reason, even if MS didn't advocate it, most devs would probably still use it.

Some games can achieve high performance at 4K probably. Racing games tend to manage better graphics on lesser hardware for instance. Obviously the mid-tier type titles probably can manage it, because they don't spend as much time on excessive graphics details.

[WickedLester]

IMO, disappointing hardware is the least of MS' issues. In truth, I really wish they would've taken some of this Scorpio R&D money and invested in some more in-house development studios. The Xbox One S's issues are not hardware-related IMO. It's the fact that it's a Halo/Gears/Forza machine with very little else to justify it's existence.

[Bigpappy]

They are not relying on checker board. It is one of the options. Native 4K was never mandated!

[Ju]

There, is still hope for some. Look, people, the performance benefit allows you to do what the PS4P does at 1800p at native 2160p - with the exact same effects and frame rate; and basically you can't see the difference in that case. It gives you those couple of extra lines, but it doesn't do much else. That's the thing. Totally expected and what we said all along, but some here where dreaming big. It ain't so. Of course not. Numbers are just number and no magic can overcome that. It's interesting that there are so many dreamers on here.

[Kokyu]

Um they mention that a little later in the article. Anyone who thought MS was going to release a true 4k native machine and it wasnt going to be 600$ or more was dreaming. If its powerful and has better game selection than xbone I may get one.

[yeahright2]

So they'll be upscaling too. Seems like they're running into issues with pricing if you ask me. They're probably trying to hit a 5 or 6 hundred dollar price point and now have to make some sacrifices. My guess is some games native 4K, but most will be upscaling.

[rainslacker]

Believe it or not, given the power of the GPU, that's actually a good thing. It'll give better visuals of the graphics themselves.

[Tussin187]

Goalposts have started to shift already as I read through these comments. E3 needs to hurry up because this just got real. Bloodbath cometh.....

[Bigpappy]

Actually, they have recommended an all the above solution. If developer do not want to use all the power for resolution, they have an array of choices to upscale and focus the power on other areas:

"We acknowledge that developers may not wish to spend all of the additional GPU resource of Project Scorpio on resolution, and this is not mandated," the paper says. "To make the best games possible, developers will inevitably spend GPU resource on other quality improvements such as higher fidelity shadows, reflections, texture filtering and lower draw distances. Another option developers might consider is frame-rate upscaling - running graphics at 60Hz but the CPU at 30Hz and interpolating animation."

They talked about how well 1080p was converted from one of they existing in-house games (Forza) to NATIVE 4K. They then go on to talk about 1/2 resolution and checker board. Once again (Native 4k is NOT mandated! It never was the case).

[ToastyMcNibbles]

So basically the checkerboard technique? So much for "true 4k" if this is anything to go by.

[Deep-throat]

Native 4K is only possible on the glorious platform.

[ShadowKnight]

Yep PC only

[Mr-Dude]

I think in the real next gen, it's possible. But I rather have 1080p 60 FPS at minimum.

[specialguest]

Yes 'tis glorious indeed as I stand strong high up at the summit of mount Olympus with luxurious hair flowing against the wind peering down at mere peasants squabbling among each other over gruel. hmm....

[blackblades]

It's like I said long time ago, they basically using the the true term like how tvs says true motion but in reality it's not the correct motion of the tv but a fake motion.

[Ju]

Ya, weird. We already new that. To see a shift in visuals like we did on "real" generations, we would need something in the ball park of 25Tf. This will happen eventually, but not any time soon (maybe 5 years), but until then, we will see a bit better 4K resolution on existing game engines. 25Tf gives your more polys and detail at 4K. That's where will be some day, but the tech in a $400 envelope is simply not here, today. 4.5 vs. 6 won't cut it; Why is anyone surprised?

[butchertroll]

So, Scorpio is an upgraded PS4 Pro with more beefier GPU and more RAM and bandwidth speed. That's disappointing a year after PS4 Pro. So, probably MS wanted to keep Xbox in 399$ ( most likely ) price point.

Some Xbone fans expected that Scorpio will be a 4k "juggernaut". Not gonna happen!
Misterxmedia, i'm cry! LOL

[Gazondaily]

It's still an upgraded Pro though so as far as console wars shit flinging goes in terms of specs alone, the Scorpio wins rather clearly. A year after Pro and 45% or so more powerful is still pretty good no?

[butchertroll]

Quote :
A year after Pro and 45% or so more powerful is still pretty good no?
.....

You said it yourself :

"No Zen processor and reliance on checkerboard rendering is disappointing."

What is the difference between Xbone and PS4, same will be between PS4 Pro and Scorpio. Yes, it's a disappointment. Especially cuz Scorpio will be released a year after PS4 Pro. Xbone and PS4 had basically simultaneous launch

[Gazondaily]

Yeah but it's still a decent upgrade over the competition. It is disappointing to me based on the speculation we had but it's not something to scoff at.

But yeah, it's not some mega juggernaut as you say.

[andrewsquall]

@butchertroll Except that isn't really the same difference between the Xbone and PS4. PS4 was always a generation ahead of Xbone with its GDDR5. Scorpio is the same architecture as standard PS4 now.

And this is shown even more by pretty much every stunning native 1080p exclusive PS4 game. Even games by lesser known studios like Supermassive Games and Until Dawn were technical marvels in their own way. Xbone gets disappointments like the basic looking Recore at 900p for example and when it can do 1080p its a last gen looking game like Forza.

[Gazondaily]

@Andrewsquall

"PS4 was always a generation ahead of Xbone with its GDDR5. Scorpio is the same architecture as standard PS4 now."

Lol what?! PS4 is a gen ahead because of GDDR Ram??!

And Scorpio is now the same as PS4? Sor now the ram doesn't matter??

[rainslacker]

OK....yeah it beats it in power. but are we going to ignore all the sh*t slinging that the PS4P and Sony have gotten over the checkerboarding technique not being "true 4K" since the reveal of these mid-gen ugrades?

There is no way to deny that it happened, and to now act like it's all fine and dandy is one of the most sudden and extreme cases of flip-flopping I've seen.

Not to say you are one of the people that did that, or that it's even really started yet(it's still early and most probably won't even read the article), but you know its coming.

I won't deny that it'll still look better on Scorpio, that's just a given, but come on. For the past 7-8 months all we've heard about is how the PS4P is not a true 4K console. Now it's, well, the Scorpio still does it better. So what? The OGPS4 being better than either current X1, and PS4P being significantly better this whole gen hasn't meant squat to Xbox gamers to wage their wars, but now...."The Scorpio wins rather clearly".

I think people that aren't so invested in the console wars and are hoping for vast improvements are going to start seeing the concept of diminishing returns in these consoles very soon.

I hate to break it, but the Scorpio's price is going to be key to it's success over Sony. The overall differences aren't going to be so apparent either with checkerboarding or not. If MS goes too high, then people are going to simply choose for the more economical, yet well enough option. I call it the Samsung TV effect....because it's the perfect example of what's about to happen with consoles. The whole 6TF vs 4TF debate is based on a lack of a frame of reference for all the people who talk about it knowing what exactly that will bring to the end user. Of course the fan boys will still nit-pick, but the general market isn't quite that picky about such things.

I don't typically let the console war nonsense get to me, but I know this is coming, I knew it for a while, and it just annoys me that each side has to spend months putting up with the other sides crap, only to change their tune and arguments when they realize that all these companies pretty much all use the same techniques.

@Septic below

Wasn't trying to say you were one disparaging checkerboarding. Just a rant.

I'm sure it won't be ignored. I'm just wondering how it will now be spun.

[Gazondaily]

@rain

"but are we going to ignore all the sh*t slinging that the PS4P and Sony have gotten over the checkerboarding technique not being "true 4K"

No we are not going to ignore it.

[Sparta07]

@ sep,I find it fascinating how you defend Microsoft!!😂
Bottom line is all this talk about how great Scorpio is going to be compared to PS4PRO, is not going to be much different. 😝

[Ju]

Well, the difference is, the XBO and the PS4 (originally) were at the same price. If the PS4P is cheaper, it has a clear advantage over the power, IMO. Those 45% will not be enough to offset a possible price disadvantage.

[notachance]

only 45%?

rubbish I say, with the power of the cloud that makes XB1 4x more powerful it will be at least 2x more powerful than PS4Pro!!!

oh wait cloud is not a thing anymore?

[stuna1]

He's going to curl up in one of the GPU's for warmth lol.

[tyasia0]

I don't know why you think it's going to be $399. The parts they are aiming for will still be more expensive than PS4Pro. It's still going to be a $499 console if they want to have more ram faster cpu and 6tf gpu.

[starchild]

But you're ignoring the fact it is coming out a year later. Look at the graphics card PC market and how much power increases each year at the same price bracket, then you will understand why it's not so unfathomable that Microsoft may be able to hit a similar price point to what the PS4 Pro is selling for now.

But will the PS4 Pro still be selling at that price later this year or will it see a price drop? That's an interesting factor to consider.

[bluefox755]

I wouldn't count on the $399 price point, $499 seems more likely.

[Overload]

This should tone down the wild expectations quite a bit.

[Mr-Dude]

Ofcourse that's not gonna happen... Some people still think GTA V or RDR2 and more are gonna make it to the Switch...

[Unspoken]

Should tone down the Sony fanboy exaggerations and trolling...actually no it won't. Even when Microsoft presents information about it the deluded Sony fanboys will cry about MS having a more powerful system.

[zivtheawesome]

nvm

[BecauseImBatman]

How it this a Leak ? This is all information that has been readily available on MS Portal since after the Xbox Scorpio reveal. Seems to indicate, to me anyway, that techniques that developers are learning and using on the Pro now will also be available on Scorpio. So Xbox Scorpio being advertised at Ryzen booth at CES could mean they've changed thier minds how they'll achieve 4k gaming and VR since E3 last year.

If MS want this machine to be a capable 4k machine they need to upgrade that CPU to pair with the 6TF GPU or it will not do the job IMO.

[Fishy Fingers]

They are upgrading the CPU.

[BecauseImBatman]

I mean to something better than Jaguar. Like Zen. Or the system will be bottle-necked.

[TankCrossing]

True it isn't really much of a leak. It basically echos what they revealed at E3, but targets a different audience.

I'm quite curious to see how this "framerate upscaling" performs in the real world.

[BecauseImBatman]

" Another option developers might consider is frame-rate upscaling - running graphics at 60Hz but the CPU at 30Hz and interpolating animation."

This sounds like one of the clever sacrifices 343i made with Halo 5, even though the game ran at 60 fps the animations in game ran at 30 fps. That's just something I relate it to and if developers have to make sacrifices like that to get native 4k at 60 fps, I don't really care for it. I would rather a better looking game at a lower resolution with higher framerates.

But yeah this is speculation, I have no idea what it'll be like or what it's like in practice. One think they need to adopt for every game (at least AAA anyway) is the option for 4k or 60fps @1440p/1080p. That's a given to me anyway cause then people even with 4K telly's will be interested.

[Ju]

@"I would rather a better looking game at a lower resolution with higher framerates. " - actually I don't. Having an option I have always chosen the higher res. I really can't say it plays much different in "high fps" mode, but it clearly looks smoother and less shimmering with the higher res. Once you have a choice and experience it yourself you'll get it. Those games which rely on 60fps already do so (e.g. CoD or BF1 or TF2).

[Fishy Fingers]

I'm interested to see how games built with Scorpio in mind will look but also how they translate to PC. Hopefully it will provide some great looking games for everyone involved.

No more 'console textures' popping up.

[TankCrossing]

The white paper seems to allude to DirectX 12 scaling across Xbox One (S), Scorpio, and a wide array of PC hardware quite easily. Here's hoping that devs do push above and beyond Scorpio, and that 3rd party uptake is strong. Dx12 on PC has been a bit of a damp squib so far.

[Destiny1080]

scorpio sounding a lot like a pro but with no games

poor phil will have to explain why his 4k beast of a console is a little puppy dog

[XanderZane]

We all know it will be more powerful then the PS4 Pro though. So if the Scorpio is a puppy dog the PS4 Pro must be a 10 min born kitty. As he says in the video, these aren't the final specs. No one knows what the final specs will be, but Microsoft. There have already been several rumors that they are better then what was shown at the E3. So I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[riibhu]

no games? you mean no exclusive right? still not a reason to not play on scorpio.

[Kokyu]

Interesting. Well hopefully we see something or learn something concrete at E3.

[windblowsagain]

Septic, there are much more important things then 4k.

Which is also the reason I never bought the PS4pro.

I would prefer More GPU/CPU spent on better physics, larger player counts over larger maps, better physics. Better textures, shading, Overall quality of lighting.

I hope for the sake of people buying the scorpio, it has lots of games to back it up. Forza and gears will not cut it.

[tyasia0]

Oh here we go again, just like after Scalebound was canceled and all of a sudden "it sucked and no one wanted it" now it's "I never wanted 4k anyways."

[riibhu]

what would you expect from these people who think better resolution equals better graphics?

[SaveFerris]

Does this mean all the talk of 'highest quality pixels', 'true 4k gaming', 'highest res, best framerate, no compromises', was a lie? More MS smoke and mirrors?

[Unspoken]

Nope, because it will stomp the PS4 Pro in power and games will look better.

[Cryptcuzz]

Your comment doesn't address what was asked.

Is it more smoke and mirrors from MS when they touted "true 4k gaming", "uncompressed pixels", "best frame rates" no compromises, etc?

If this white paper proves true, which most likely it will be IMO (see prior neo white paper leak) then it IS more smoke and mirrors -lies from MS.

If spinning that in whichever way makes you happier, have at it.

[Unspoken]

No, actually it's exactly what Microsoft said it would be. If you read the white paper, MS claims it is up to the devs on whether to do native 4K, which some games will do, a specific 1st party title comes to mind, and others may want to use another rendering method which will natively do 4K with specific assets at lower resolution. Even PC titles implement these methods at 4K.

[RegorL]

marketing speech = make it sound fantastic but do never promise anything in the same sentence.

"highest quality pixels", "true 4k gaming" = yes, there will be native 4k games

"highest res, best framerate, no compromises" = 4k, better frame rates than competition, ...

but

"no compromises" is a really strange statement to make, all game development are about compromises.

[akaFullMetal]

This should hopefully put expectations in check. Essentially the scorpio is an xbox pro + with checkerboard rendering.

[corroios]

Ulta hd gaming for a price that a average consumir can buy its not yet possible. They need something capable of 12+ teraflops. 4k with ultra settings at 60 frames cant cost even 499 much less 399. Maybe at 799 with a deal with amd about selling at least 50 million consoles to lower the price

[zivtheawesome]

IMO this means that Sony done right by releasing the pro a year before scorpio, with that sony could lower the price by a bunch when the scorpio launches. I gotta say that i originally expected the console to cost 499$ but with this info i'd say it is a 399$ system. by the video it is 4.5 times better GPU than the xbox one s which translates to 5.85 TF, meaning the scorpio would be 39% stronger than the pro. in addition the machine will run games at 30fps and for some games will render frames twice while interpolating animations as they call it "framerate upscaling". dissapointing really.

[Herbalistic]

This leaked info doesn't show Scropio being the 4K machine like Microsoft have been promoting

[XanderZane]

This leak doesn't even show the final specs. lol!! It's pretty much what was shown at the E3. Only thing they tell us it that it won't have the 32MB ESRAM. That's about it.

[gtxgamer2]

Show us the specs first. Btw is this pretty much Microsofts next/last console?

[andrewsquall]

Hopefully now people can stop with their overdone "BEAST" talk.
E3 will be interesting. No not the actual console, I'm talking what games Microsoft is going to pay for exclusively as an excuse to talk up the Scorpio.
The Witcher 3 is the perfect example, the worse version of the game out of the 3 platforms but the glorious and perfect CD Projekt Red still sold out like any other sellout developer.

[Gazondaily]

Why is that? It's still a 6TF beast. 40%+ more power than its closest competitor is beastly my g 😎

Below- my friends its beastly because it's a 6tf BEAST

[zivtheawesome]

actually it is a bit less than 6 TF and a bit less than 40% meaning that the difference would be less than the ps4 and xbox one

[Aenea]

So the PS4 is a beast compared to the X1 with the same percentage difference in power?

And what about the Pro compared to the X1/X1S?

😀

[Speak_da_Truth]

The regular Ps4 was more powerful than the Xb1 but I never once saw you claim it was a "beast" lol

[Ju]

34% to be precise. XB1 to PS4 is actually close to 40%

[Dark_Knightmare2]

It's really not the difference will be marginal between the two at best especially in relation to third party titles. Now if you want to continue to use the 6 tflops is a beast line since it looks good more power to you but when it comes down to it that isn't going to mean Crap when the games between the platforms are going to be barely different just like it didn't mean crap when the PS4 had a slightly and barely noticeable advantage over x1.

[Einhander1971]

All this so called power means shit when I'll be playing Mario odyssey and the best Sony has to offer.
Face it Microsoft has a uphill struggle like it or not.

[Vasto]

PS4 and PS4 Pro are weak.

VR has failed and nobody buying PS4 Pro.

We know it hurts.

What goes around comes around.

[Aura7541]

The Pro sold around a half million in the US which is very good considering sales during the holiday season are dictated by price. It has also been out of stock frequently outside of the US. Same with PSVR.

At the end of the day, the software is what matters the most. Heck, just today, Tales of Berseria, Yakuza 0, and Kingdom Hearts 2.8 came out on the PS4. Impressions of Resident Evil 7 on PSVR have been generally positive.

[Aenea]

X1 is weaker than the PS4, Scorpio will be less weak than the PS4 Pro...

[Dark_Knightmare2]

Could you possibly throw up anymore fanboy bullshit in one comment I mean my god lol

[riibhu]

The race to 4k already ended. PC won.

[XXanderXX]

Good for it , still not my preference when it comes to gaming .

[XXanderXX]

Nice can't wait to own one come holiday 2017, good times.

[Aenea]

"sparse rendering"! LOL!!!

Like I've been saying all this time, the Scorpio won't do native 4k for ALL games, it will do a few more of them in native 4k and the rest will have to use techniques like the PS4 Pro's checkerboard rendering which MS is calling "sparse rendering". I've also always said that due to the faster GPU games will still look better than on the PS4 Pro but that it still won't be native 4k.

So the Scorpio is a "faux-k" machine as well 😂

[XanderZane]

It will be capable of doing all the games in native 4K, but there will be developers who probably won't always go that route.

@Aenea
Games would most likely be 4K 30fps or less and that probably would be a reason to reduce it if they wanted the game to be 60fps. All the games would never be native 4K 60fps, but 4K 30fps is possible I'm sure.

[Aenea]

😂

See, some people still believe this.... No, it won't even be possible to do every game in native 4k unless they do a massive downgrade in graphics as compared to 1080p...

[Pancit_Canton]

History is repeating itself once again. This is just like how the PS2 and the original Xbox went head on. The Xbox might have the slight power advantage with the PS2, but the PS2 already secured a lot of third party developers because of it's massive installed base. It's the similar thing that's happening right now. PS4/PS4PRO already have it's massive installed base and third party supports. The Scorpio might have the slight power advantage on the PS4PRO, but I think it's already too late this gen.

[Artemidorus]

6TFLOPS is not enough to provide AAA games in 4K.

Name one PC AAA game that can run 4K 30fps using a 6TFLOP card.

I'd rather see amazing detailed 1440p games anyway.

[Lennoxb63]

The GPU is 6TFs. Not the entire console.

[RegorL]

FIFA 2016?
as it can run native 4k even on PS4 Pro

[Yohshida]

But what if MS just goes full in and takes the hit and releases the Scorpio on OG Xbox and Xbox 360 Price - 299$? It would be by far the best Console on the market and it comes with an awesome price tag. Just be Microsoft and show what you are capable off. But if they don't want to sell it at a loss it will be around 450$.

[tyasia0]

Why would Microsoft sell them at a loss? They cancel games and close studios as soon as it seems like they might not be profitable. Selling things at a loss doesn't seem like something the Xbox division is likely to do.

The console will be $499 just like everyone estimated.

[starchild]

Uh I saw many people claiming it would be $599, $699, or even higher.

[XanderZane]

Most likely and that's fine with me. I think $500 is the sweet spot. Anymore then that, it's going to be a hard sell.

[Majin-vegeta]

Oh poor Rookie is about to be disappointed...

[Aenea]

LOL, yeah, funny that you never see him when news is not so positive about Xbox!

-----
@timotim

Rookie is one of the people who keeps saying the things you believe Xbox fans haven't said........

I never once said this is negative news, I always expected this, but I've replied to so many people since E3 last year who kept thinking Scorpio would be so much more than it now seems to be the case is crazy!

-----
@Xander

Sigh, like I said to timotim I don't see this as negative news either, but for someone like Rookie who believed it would be something way more than it actually is, this is bad news...

[XanderZane]

I don't see this as negative news at all. We still don't know all the specs. Everyone is pretty sure it will be the most powerful game console when it launches. Everyone knows it will be capable of doing Native 4K games. If the PS4 Pro is capable, then it should be a no brainer on the Scorpio.

[RGB]

So if DF is right, and they usually are, Scorpio won't be hitting true 4K like PS4 Pro doesn't and because it's probably going to house the Jaguar 8-core solution it won't perform much better either. Microsoft needs to get this thing out asap and match PS4 Pro price wise or expect to be slaughtered in the US, never mind worldwide!

[BigGamersSmallTalk]

Scorpio! Scorpio! Scorpio!

[bluefox755]

We've been saying for months: "Keep your expectations tempered!"

[Bluemaster77]

Most of the stuff from that analysis goes right over my head, however from what I understand gamers should have something to be excited about this fall.

[captainexplosion]

I just got a 7.2 surround sound system and am currently re-wiring everything. Although I never really cared about XB1 being an all in one entertainment hub before, as I was redoing setup it hit me how amazing that is. Video games, blurays, streaming services, and Satellite all coming from the same place. I would no longer need to input to a different source and boot it up. Amazing. So I ran my satellite though my XB1 and to my astonishment it degrades picture quality. That alone is a deal breaker. But on top of that there is a glitch in the XB1 that still hasn't been fixed for 7.1. So if you have a 7.1 surround or better you are much better off just putting in that you have 5.1 in the XB1 settings. On top of that, the Bluray player is crap and it isn't a very good streaming service. XB1 is such a failure. But PS4 isn't much better when it comes to being a media hub. When you have PSVR you can't get HDR (WTF!) without disconnecting PSVR box. It also likely degrades picture quality. On top of the PS4 didn't have a remote for two years after release and the remote turns off on its own like a ps4 controller.

[tywinlannister000]

The thing many people forget is MAJOR graphical sacrifices(textures,lighting,d raw distance,foliage,etc) will be made to achieve 4k on these consoles.

[RegorL]

"no compromises"...

[TonyFoxx]

I'm not sure you will see any huge shift in this generation, but should Microsoft pull off a complete revamp of their system that reinvigorates their brand then it would certainly be a great addition to the landscape and make the next generation of games even more interesting.

[windblowsagain]

It will need to do upscaling on many titles for 4k.

Just from a higher base rez then the ps4pro.

[jjb1981]

It better be cheaper than upgrading a GPU that does 4K. The thing is, my 980 TI can run a lot of games at 4K...... with several features turned off such as HBAO and MSAA. Is that going to be the loophole? 4K gaming without the bells and whistles? We'll have to find out at the end of this year.

[Master of Unlocking]

" but at the very least, the comment reaffirms our belief that Scorpio's CPU technology has not moved on in step with its GPU."
Can't wait to read all those articles on how the system is ill-designd with bottlenecks caused by the CPU preventing the GPU from reaching its full potential... just like for the PS4 Pro, right? Or is the gaming media going to change its tune again for Microsoft's system? Nooooo, they wouldn't do that, would they?

"The second major technique it advocates is 'sparse rendering' - which is better known in the post-PS4 Pro era as checkerboarding. Not only does Microsoft advocate the same technique for Scorpio, it also cites the same impressive work by Ubisoft seen in Rainbow Six Siege - to the point where the exact same presentation shown to me by Mark Cerny a few months back is referenced in the whitepaper."
Gotta love this one too. There go all those "the only system with true 4K all across the board" promises. Can't wait to read all the double standards on that in the press and on forums one year from now as well.

[Braveheart_NZ]

What happened to Phil Spencer's comments last October stating the Xbox Scorpio will be a balanced machine. He said " the team is focused more than anything else on ensuring balance between the CPU, GPU, and memory on the console. Indeed, making the Scorpio a balanced console is the number one priority.
http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-...
If the processor is still a Jaguar based processor then there goes that theory. The Jaguar will be a huge bottle neck here if that is the case, so hopefully people have there wires crossed and this theory will be false when we finally hear from Microsoft about the console properly. I hope that they haven't back tracked on what they planned, to save on money. This is meant to be a elite console for those that want to pay the money for 4K graphics. Oh, well, time will tell I guess.

[RegorL]

They might have intended to use Zen (highly unlikely as 8 Zen cores uses quite some chip area - dual chip console?) but since it is late they had to revert back to Jaguar...

[Braveheart_NZ]

Or a modified hybrid Puma chip with some Zen attributes. We will see :)

[Phill-Spencer]

Oo if scorpio isn't the allpowerful doomsday machine people made it ip to be then it will even have a harder time against ps4(+pro). I don't know how many times i read pro with its 4,2 tf isn't worth an upgrade because the differences to standard ps4's 1,6 tf are to minor. Now scorpio will have 6tf without major improvements in architecture(high end chips etc.). Why should someone prefer scorpio over pro, when xbox1/ scorpio still lack tremendously of exclusives? Another fail by ms and phil spencer.

[Maxor]

Look like they just made a 2017 version of the PS4 Pro. I bet this underpowered turd can't even handle 1080 60 FPS as a baseline.

EPIC. FAIL.

[Gwynbleidd]

This white paper is from right after E3. Much could have been changed since then. I think Scorpio will have a Vega GPU and the new mobile Zen-based CPU on a custom APU-like SOC. Otherwise MS could have easily released a new console last year since Polaris and improved Jaguar have been available for reasonable pricing already.
These are all but speculation, including the eurogamer article. We will have to wait and see.

[XanderZane]

The white paper is old. No one knows the current specs. That's the funny part.

[RegorL]

Maybe they started designing this monster too late?

Was busy designing XBox One S, heard rumours about a upgraded PS4, started Scorpio design.

[Rob_Ko]

"True 4k gaming" they said. If Scorpio gonna upscale games to 4k just like PS4Pro then Phil Spencer is just a clown and a liar.

[Sevir]

Sooooo, not True 4k but checkerboard rendering just like PS4 Pro?

Microsoft... why didn't you just say that from the get go!? Again XB fans bashing the Pro simply get a console that does Everything the PS4 has pioneered before it. 6tflop gpu... all just to get checkerboarding... does the argument of Not native stand for Scorpio Games now?

I'm waiting for the rebuttals! Please chime in folks , I read the report

[Chris12]

The rebuttal is, why not wait for the actual specs before getting your jimmies in a twist

[Sevir]

My Jammie's aren't in a twist... the whitepaper report by MS's Technicians talk about getting to 4k using "Sparse" Rendering... aka Checkerboard Rendering...

I'm just saying, for all the talk of true 4k, and best quality pixels, they're literally employing the SAME techniques the PS4 Pro has put into practice, and Xbox fans were calling it not true, not native, fake... I'm just asking is it suddenly OK now that MS is using Sony's play book to take advantage of 4k sets?

Of course their will be NATIVE 4K Software, but just as with the Pro, Scorpio will not be a Native 4k machine...

So again... what's the rebuttal?

[Chris12]

What you don't understand or have read is that all MS first party titles will be native 4K.

Checkerboard rendering is just a tool for developers to use. While MS can control their own output they cannot force multiplat titles to be native 4K, that is up to the developers. If a dev wants to produce a 1080p title with all the bells and whistles, or a res somewhere between 1080p and 4K using checkerboard, that is the dev's choice.

Clear now?

[LastCenturyRob]

Are some people really going to troll when MS has not even made anything official yet? If the rumored specs of the Scorpio are accurate some games will without question be rendered in native 4k with 30to 60 fps...Others won't. They will be upscaled or 1440p....Big deal! Not even high end gaming pc's can always display native 4k and still have playable fps. Fact is, what MS will be releasing in roughly nine to ten months will be a beast of a console and will be able to hold its own against gaming pc's for a couple of years at least after release. Even the PS4pro is able to hold its own against gaming rigs for the time being. Time to move on and troll about something else.

[Nightmar3Demom]

Come on folks, did anyone really believe for a second that MS was going to be able to achieve 6 teraflops, true 4K and keep it at a competitive price point?

Sacrifices had to be made to stay competitive price wise. Hopefully they can pull it off.