Nintendo Tells Square "Never Come Back" After Fallout Over Final Fantasy VII

At one point in time, Nintendo and Square were synonymous in the video game industry. Square had released many of their biggest RPG hits on the Super NES like Final Fantasy VI (or III in the US) and Chrono Trigger. Square was loyal to the Big N in the early to mid 90s until Final Fantasy VII came along.

[naruga]

...and future justified the instincts of Square ...now Ninty is on the risk of getting out of hardware business denying to be more open and evolve while Square materialized a nearly mythic game which people cry to see a remake and is doing fine

[Neonridr]

risk of bankruptcy? Please tell me you are joking... They have billions in the bank.

there are rumours that the remake will be on Switch too.

[_-EDMIX-_]

I don't think they're at risk of bankruptcy but I don't think you understand how much money it actually costs to roll out a platform that fails...

They actually for a fact financially cannot afford to continue having feeling platforms literally this platform and possibly one more could possibly literally bankrupt this company more than you actually realize.

You're talking about money in research and development and marketing and in game development that they never actually get back if the platform fails

[DarkZane]

@Neonridr

People can come up with all the stupid rumors they want, but it doesn't change the fact that Sony published the original, which means it's gonna be PS4 console exclusive forever because you can't remake something without anyone involved in the original being on board.

Plus even if they could release it on another platform, the Xbox One won't get it because it won't sell and the Switch is already confirmed to be a lot weaker than the xbox one and PS4, thus wouldn't be able to run the game.

[hellothere1977]

@edmix

funny how you quip about neon not understanding something. you have any idea how much money is generated with just ONE BILLION dollars of cash nintendo currently sits on? do you? it's a sh!tload per annum. their R&D staff are made up of regular employees they have on bankroll at any given time. they aren't like Apple where their money is put in a bottomless sink hole to develop advance future cutting edge tech. you can see that in their consoles. nintendo is successful and will remain SOLVENT pretty much forever, because they arent stupid to bleed money with risky ventures.

why do you think there is a constant shortage of nintendo games/consoles/merchandise??? it's because they only produce a safe number of items to realistically sell and not lose money. you peopke complain about shortages and nintendo "doesn't know what they are doing...blah blah blah. if they did things the way many of you idiots suggest, they would end up like THQ and their millions of unsold peripherals (which incidently help bankrupt the company,) or the countless other studios shutting down because of poor financial decisions and risky/expensive game developments.

please, for the love of allah, go take a few courses in business before opening your mouth.

[Armyntt]

What is nintendos overhead? And all operating costs? Whats their margins? Same could go for Sony and Xbox(not ms as a whole). There is more to the balance sheet than any dollar amount. I don't think people realize how close to folding all these game divisions are to bankruptcy. Not necessarily anytime soon but literally one or two big hardware fails from any of the big three could bankrupt them. I'm not posting links to prove a point, if u care to disagree google is your friend and will point you in the right direction.

[kowan]

Nintendo is doing fine but FF7 remake on the Switch? Now that's even more ridiculous than Nintendo going bankrupt.

[BlackTar187]

neon

Where did you hear this rumor?

[ABizzel1]

Just because you have plenty of money, does not mean you can't file bankruptcy. Filing Bankruptcy allows you to discard or make proper payments towards debts. It doesn't mean you don't have any money and you're broke.

A business or corporation does so to liquidize or reorganize the company without incurring more losses in the process.

Which fits Nintendo's position perfectly if the Switch turns out the flop like the Wii U (which I seriously doubt will happen).

BROKE does not mean BANKRUPT

[Sunny_D]

@Darkzane

That isn't how that works. The trailer of FF7 remake already said it "coming to PS4 first" implying that it will come to other platforms. Also, the original FF7 came out on the PC before as well.

[Angeljuice]

@Hellothere

You are aware that Apple is THE most profitable company in the world aren't you?
That is profit, not turnover.

To say that Nintendo doesn't do business like Apple isn't a complement at all. Every company wants to be as profitable as possible and Apple leads the World in that respect.

Your comment is naive to say the least.

" please, for the love of allah, go take a few courses in business before opening your mouth."
I suggest you practice what you preach.

[subtenko]

xD this guy

[_-EDMIX-_]

@hell- it can literally cost a billion dollars to roll out a new platform.

You have to add up the cost of research and development and marketing on top of all the games that are in development on top of all the marketing for those games that are even coming at launch.

Now if that platform fails you're not going to get that money back...

Now something like Horizon zero Dawn begin development in 2011 which actually means that Sony was already paying for something regarding the PlayStation 4 before its Public Announcement.

Nintendo believed that they were going to sell 100 million wii u which also leads me to believe that they had a bunch of games in development with the expectation that the platform was going to be successful enough to justify the cost.

You just need to know a little bit about business to understand how this company could go bankrupt if you realize that they're spending lots of money to roll out Hardware that has to be successful for them to meet a respectable return.

I don't think the Wii U gave them that respectable return if you factor in we don't even know just how many games might have been cancelled or repurposed to go on other platforms like 3DS or switch after its failure.

Like I said they believed they were going to sell 100 million which tells me that they also probably invested in lots of marketing and development of titles with the expectation that they would make a return with a 100 .

The reason why I talk about business on here so often is because I actually own a small business lol

Now I don't think this company is going to go bankrupt because I believe the switch is probably going to do pretty good for them but in the respect that the switch doesn't I still don't see them going bankrupt because I believe they're smart enough company to avoid creating Hardware again if they realize they could not get a respectable return.

I believe that in the event of the switches failure they're more likely to go multi-platform and as a software company only.

Like I said before Sony started paying for development of PlayStation 4 games as soon as 2011 with Horizon zero Dawn....

Now PlayStation 3 did not sell 100 million units, the Nintendo Wii did so how many games do you think Nintendo had in development years prior to the Wii U with the expectation it was going to move 100 million units?

[joab777]

That's the sad part too. They are sitting on so much cash, and yet many of their moves do not back their supporters. People can disagree, but I am NOT happy about the WiiU and how it was handled at all! Now they expect all of us who supported them to just turn around and trust them again and buy a Switch because they are Nintendo.

Listen, Nintendo is a big part of my life, but they are shady like the rest. Look at how the PlayStation came to be and they are mad at Square lol?

[bluefox755]

They may not be at direct risk, but they're certainly not untouchable like they used to be. Another major hardware flop would definitely hurt them bad.

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

Doesn't matter, if Switch fails investors will want to

A) Cash Out,
B) Go mobile software only.

[Kleptic]

@Shin -

A cash asset balance is different than net income, comprehensive income / overall profits, etc.. There are 1000's of reasons for diminishing asset balances even while being profitable. Nintendo was profitable through both 2015 and 2016, despite the Wii U's unanimous crappiness. And overall company financial position (the entirety of the balance sheet) was steady.

Just saying, you can't look at a cash balance and remotely see the whole picture. Liquidity is considerably down right now (probably because of Switch related aspects)...but, it's pretty common for investors of electronics/tech companies to look at extremely high cash asset balances as lazy, meaning it looks worse when an electronic company ends a period with a pot of cash instead of having it invested into something. This specific case is most likely, like mentioned, related to heavy investment into the Switch occurring within those periods.

but even as the Wii U slipped deeper into irrelevance, Nintendo profited more in 2016 than 2015. The issue many are running with is simply that those 2016 profits were considerably under forecasts a year or two ago, as the Wii U flopping this hard was not expected.

The primary thing with this discussion is some people struggling to separate an overall company from a specific product they offer. The Wii U was/is a disaster. Nintendo, as a brand, is as strong as ever. Nintendo could potentially reach a period of insolvency (i.e. consideration of bankruptcy), but almost every creditor would accept it as short term, and adjust claims as needed (i.e. preventing Nintendo from entering bankruptcy). All I mean is, Nintendo isn't at any real risk, pokemon go and that explosion reassures any creditor that they have a hold in multiple markets. I don't know if it's a situation of people not understanding what bankruptcy is (some got it right, it doesn't mean you're 'broke'), or not understanding the flexibility incorporated to certain degrees when a guaranteed entity has a few hiccups.

[indysurfn]

Can't deny Neonridr is right about the money. And last time I checked Square Enix was the only one of the two to get in financial trouble. They almost kicked the bucket over that movie. Nintendo has NEVER dropped below the million...NO BILLIONS cash on hand, and in free cash flow.

Of all the firms that could really spend on losing on the cost of hardware it would be Nintendo. Because Microsoft even though they have more money are not welling to risk losing as much on the video game sector now that they are a major player.

[EddieNX]

Since that fallout Nintendo has seen massive success as well as a few hiccups. Remember the GBA, the Wii,DS,3DS ? Haters always focus on the negatives. Nintendo has been doing well in terms of software sales and the handheld market.

[Omnislashver36]

Yeah but Wii wasn't a success among gamers, it was a fluke success among physical therapists and soccer moms. Their success wouldn't have carried on for Square-Enix...

[_-EDMIX-_]

Business has everything to do with "what have you done for me lately?"

So the success of the Wii is not going to do anything to someone like square if they're unable to produce a game on that platform that actually entices the fan base in regards to the Final Fantasy fans.

That is no different than the situation regarding the PlayStation 1 and the N64 you're basically asking this company to allow their position in the market to be taken over by one of their competitors freely on the PlayStation 3 and 360.

Now that the Wii U failed, what would Square Enix be doing if they really made a Final Fantasy on the Wii? They would basically be screwed because the PlayStation 3 in 360 generation very likely would have had a J RPG that was looking to fill the void of Final Fantasy fans that actually wanted a quality Final Fantasy game.

That is actually why many companies will not side with specific console manufacturers simply based on sales because they also don't want to compromise their position in the market.

The Wii was amazing for one generation what does that do for Square Enix a long-term if they've basically abandoned with the PlayStation 4 and Xbox one generation ,a generation ago?

How do you know that during the PlayStation 3 and 360 generation several Japanese companies could have came forward and fill the void that squaresoft left when they decided to make a final fantasy for the Wii?

Sooooo no.

You might see those platforms as successes for Nintendo but I don't think third parties want to leave their specific markets based on fads.

Where are those ds sales? Where are those wii sales?

So how does that help Square Enix in 2017?

If you really want to help Square Enix you also have to provide Square Enix with what they need to still remain competitive in the market which actually means they need to have the hardware to allow Square Enix to still compete against their competitors I don't really think Square Enix is going to be all too pleased to be releasing a PlayStation 2 looking game on the Wii while their competitors are releasing these amazing life like looking graphics.

I'm sorry but Nintendo cannot guarantee Square Enix longevity in regards to success they can't even provide that for themselves.

Wii and DS sales are not Wii u and 3DS's sales.

PlayStation and Xbox are more consistently successful and powerful enough to meet their needs to stay the best in their Market

[dillydadally]

@OmnislashVer36 What gamer didn't have a Wii?

[Deadpooled]

@OmnislashVer36

I wouldn't say the wii 'wasn't a success among gamers', some of the best games of the generation were on the wii such as the absolutely superb best ever Mario game/series imo Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 (the second is one of the best games I have ever played).

[Dan_scruggs]

It immediately lets me know the intelligence level of someone who assumes Nintendo is on the verge of bankruptcy/leaving the hardware business/dying (pick one). But much like a Trump voter you can believe what you want.

[yeahokwhatever]

Actually, people like you are the reason Trump won. That said, the main reason he won is because Hillary Clinton. Anyways, back to video games.. The Wii U did pretty bad, but to think that means Nintendo as a whole is failing is pretty lame for sure.

[subtenko]

gtfo.....

[3-4-5]

* Nintendo has enough cash reserves to fail the next two gens in a row and still have enough money to be fine.

Stop these wishful lies.

[Huguinho]

Square did came back to ninty after the final fantasy vii thing, wtf are you talking about sonytard?

[DarXyde]

Are you actually suggesting that Square has justified instincts? Let's not have a conversation about Square's "instincts".

[Kenshin_BATT0USAI]

whoops wrong person.

[LAWSON72]

Oh man, you must have missed the decade long hatred for Square. Besides the small turn around the past couple of years the only big games square was pumping out were those eidos and big western ips/devs they bought. Square has only been fine the last year or two. Ask yourself is a company that can only get that much buzz from a remake of an old game that fine? I assure you can only milk that cow so long, and they know this and are doing a good job now at making games.

[dillydadally]

Actually, I'd personally say it's the other way around. Square is a shadow of its former self when it comes to game design. I can't remember the last Square developed game that I thought was as good or well made as a Nintendo Exclusive. Maybe FFX? I think Nintendo gets a bad rap, but they're still making great games.

[darthv72]

Nice little throwback read. They forgot to close it with, eventually Square came back to nintendo in force with all sorts of games for the DS, 3DS and Wii / U. There is likely to be some switch games as well so obviously the two put aside their differences.

Like the saying goes, time heals all wounds.

[Neonridr]

yep. This story along with the SNES-CD addon which would eventually become the Playstation are two of those what-if moments in history that make you wonder what would could have been had things played out differently.

[gangsta_red]

In an alternate universe the SNES-CD and the Dreamcast 2 are still battling it out.

[sk8ofmnd]

Sony and nintendo would have had a monopoly on gaming. For selfiah reasons i think id love that but theoretically it could have been bad with 2 conmpanies becoming 1 slaying all competition. As much as i dislike ms they have brought some great things to the medium.

[pcz]

crap read.

''Nintendo Tells Square "Never Come Back" After Fallout Over Final Fantasy VII''

using present tense when talking about something that happened 20+ years ago.

[TheCommentator]

They also forgot to close it with, "If Sony wasn't so greedy when developing the Play Station with Nintendo that they insisted upon owning all IP published on their CD drive, none of this would have even mattered."

[Shinox]

Square Enix is way too dumb to even let them have Cloud Strife for Smash Bros to begin with , how can they be so cocky and ungrateful when they have done the impossible .. i mean Cloud Strife being in SSB for crying out loud , he was supposed to be on All-Stars but he wasn't .. and all that in favor for Nintendo

[franwex]

Well he's there, get over it. Smash bros are actually good games. Maybe square doesn't mind having one ir their most recognized characters in an actual good game?

[Ravenor]

SSB>All Stars

EDMIX below knows what's up.

[_-EDMIX-_]

Agreed

[sk8ofmnd]

3Rd partys > all nintendo 1st partys.

[Ravenor]

@Sk8ofmnd

How's The Order and LBP3 working out for you?

[jaycptza]

sicne we playing this game PC>PS4>XboxOne> Switch

[kayoss]

@Ravenor
When did The Order and LBP3 become 3rd parties?

[Featuring_Dante]

nintendo is a sinking ship!
Square realized this 20 years ago!

[quent]

Is that why they took money from M$, who's the bigger sinking ship ?

[sk8ofmnd]

I would say nintendo. Ms has yet to have a failed console.

[Featuring_Dante]

you're comparing apples to oranges!

[jaycptza]

dumbest comment ever?

[franwex]

Well as the article pointed it out. Nintendo does what it wants. They wont listen to developers or even fans. They make systems for their own needs. It gets them in trouble at times too.

[PhoenixUp]

Squaresoft left and Square Enix returned to Nintendo in 2003

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

It was Nintendo's fault for going with cartridge when Square needed a bigger format for VII

[_-EDMIX-_]

This is one of the greatest events in gaming historically where the console makers should have been listening to the designers in regards to feedback.

Final Fantasy 7 went on to break ridiculous records and catapults the PlayStation 1 to ridiculous super stardom.

All because Sony was willing to listen , Nintendo needs to stop creating Platforms in new vacuums and they need to understand the designers that they reject will be welcomed with open arms by their competitors.

Like an old saying in retail goes , every customer you say no to today, your competitor will say yes to tomorrow

.... or something like that lol

[sk8ofmnd]

Very well said in your response to ricosuave below. Did you notice the truth i threw at him. You may find a good read. As expected... Defeat fanboys with truth and you get no response 😊

[Goldeneye007]

Nailed it... right on the head.

[loverlink]

This article is based on Polygons fantastic 2 year project. If you have the time give it a read http://www.polygon.com/a/fi...

[sdcard4gb]

Useless article.

[FallenAngel1984]

Isn't this just part of the article I posted days ago

http://n4g.com/news/2003310...

[sk8ofmnd]

Does is mean no ff7 remake on switch?

People dont seem to understand even if you have billions nintendo still have investors to apease. Hell theres no telling how much the failed wiiu cost nintendo. Fanboys like to shrug their shoulders and say "im rich bitch" but you can only have so many failed consoles till gamers as a whole move on. Please explain how they went from 101million consumers to 13 million? I know people like to think the switch will be the one bring nintendo back into the spotlight but they thought the wiiu was going to be the 2nd comming of christ too.

[redaxis]

Nintendo is like a stubborn old friend refusing to seek medical advise while having health issue.

[glennhkboy]

It is revealing that after 20 years, the same conflict of "Not enough power" from 3rd party vs "Uniqueness" from Nintendo still exist.

[iliimaster]

so much people on here that missed the nes,snes, n64 on here you can just tell... im 34 years old i own my xboxone 360,ps4,wiiU and a WII... theres millions of gamers out there who love nintendo its not just about you.. nintendo is going to be here i don't even think we would have a ps4 pro or a xbox scorpio without the fear of nintendo possibly putting out a powerful system

[Bathyj]

I don't think it's to do with Nintendo. It's MS trying to end console generations as they knew this one was lost. They're effectively starting next gen halfway through this gen.

But I did produce way back in the early Wii days that Nintendo would be the first to start a new gen and that when PS4 and Xbox 3 came out Nintendo's machine would be under powered and then would try to leap frog to the next gen again before it was time.

[windblowsagain]

I would take the money and jump off the ship into a dingy.

[zb1ftw777]

Good for Nintendo.

Square suck and make sucky games anyways.

[Miss_Weeboo]

This was a great story. Some of it I already knew but interesting as a whole

[Jon_Targaryen]

What a crappy article. FF as a game was never stated to be exclusive to begin with. There are more than a handfull of FF games that went to PC too in the late 90's shortly after releasing on PSX, so WTF?

[Frodosmugins]

I remember reading bout this back in 96/97.
Very vague what magazine it was but ill never forget them writing how at a game conference Square started the FFVII trailer with N64 logo whice faded away in to a PS logo to announce the game is exclusive to the PS.

I thought that was so out of order at the time.
If thats true square management sound like aholes.

[zerocarnage]

this industry is so out of control it's making me feel sick, money is what is going to in the end destroy the console world

[ChickeyCantor]

Click baity, It's hearsay that it was even said. Nintendo didnt tell anything. except for anything else in those quotes.

[Malice-Flare]

to be fair. today's Square-Enix is not Squaresoft and Enix then...

[mochachino]

Well Nintendo shouldn't have fought so hard against using better storage technology like CDs. Companies were taking great risks making cartridge games, literally leaving millions in manufacturing costs on shelves. Square was right to not support Nintendo. It was Nintendo's stubbornness and bully tactics on 3rd parties that gave rise to the success of Playstation.

[kainslayer]

dont worry switch will sell cause of zelda (whitch im bying) and mario and if they announce a new metroid game from retro at e3 then all is good for nintendo im worried the most about scorpio all specs and nothing to show for as of now tbh

[andrewsquall]

Fallout over FFVII? Sony brought the main franchise to me in Europe. That's instantly more meaningful to me than anything Nintendo ever did with FF. Why would they ever go back to Nintendo anyway? As mediocre at times that FF XV is, there isn't a hope of that advanced looking game running on a Nintendo console anytime soon.

[deviliscry]

I will never support Nintendo again n64 was my last N console . Oppress omillation greed control.. like konami N is no different only they know how to hide it

[Xenocide7]

Can anyone write a summary for me? I don't have the time or patience to read all those quotes. What's the gist of this debacle?

[xtheblackparade]

Who'd choose Fallout over FF VII Kappa?

[DillyDilly]

So Nintendo & Square is like MARVEL & FOX

[Kokyu]

Um the gamecube had Crystal Chronicals man.

[MADGameR]

lol Let them be stupid, Nintendo is going to take another L on their next console with that kind of attitude. To deny pretty much the most anticipated game of ALL time this generation? Wow, too much pride. Sorry Nintendo but I won't go near your system if all you're going to do is stubbornly saturate your game library with kiddy games. Its 2017 and they should've learned by now.

[windblowsagain]

Who is Nintendo. Jack Reacher.

[Master of Unlocking]

Dammit, are they really still that bitter after all those years? Or is it just an article about what Ninty said to them back then? I can't see the article.

[mysteryraz11]

FF is playstation brand made

[ElderSchools]

Square had a good platform to write for in Nintendo. Growing pains and evolution changes everyone, i'm sure they aren't ungrateful for their prior joint successes. They just don't need to be pinned under exclusivity if it's going to hurt the bottom line in regards to Square. Nintendo's stockholders can't be happy with losing a franchise no matter how you try to sugercoat this story. Square will be just fine regardless, of that much i'm sure we all can be certain.

[Pathogenic]

Honestly though. Super Mario Odyssey looks awesome on the Switch. I think this happened to me when Gamecube was announced with Mario & Luigi. I didn't have the money for a console when I was kid so for my birthday I got a PS2 and Final Fantasy X. Crazy now that I think about it. This time I will buy it for my little nieces.

[chobit_A5HL3Y]

honestly, nintendo doesn't gaf what ANYONE wants or says(fans, critics, investors, doesn't matter) lol they do their own thing, and if it fails, then whatever; they know they have money in the bank regardless. they have nothing to lose and they know it. to me, nintendo just offers underpowered gimmicks. not interested in any of it anymore.

[megamanxvolnutt]

Well, they did have a good run. Final Fantasy 6 is still one of my favorites.

[SarcasticDuck]

I'm more concerned with "Final Fantasy VI (or III in the US)". What? was FFXV on the US called FFVIII-2 or something?