FFXV Story Discussion - Did you enjoy it? What went wrong?

Eyes on FF: " Now that most people who got Final Fantasy XV day one have had a chance to beat the game, it's time to have a look back on the story and discuss some of the details. You may have seen EoFF members Loony BoB and Fox in particular having a debate about it on the forums and so I thought it would be a good idea to invite them onto FF Talk to have a chat about it and to get both perspectives."

[-Foxtrot]

The problems in my opinion were...

(Spoilers)

You needed to see Kingsglaive and Brotherhood before playing to understand the story more along with the characters. I don't see why they didn't just rework the story that the wedding was supposed to be held in Insomnia and you need to fight your way out of the city in a similar plot to Kingsglaive. You could have met up with each of your friends on the way and everytime you do you'd get a flashback like in Brotherhood of that character. Luna would also be with you and part of the party so you'd actually care about her death later on in the game. The whole "we need to find the ring" side plot could have been done with Cor.

Speaking of Cor characters like him felt they were just thrown away near the end of the game like they didn't know what to do with them, the same can be said for Aranea. One minute she's fighting you the next it's "Oh I've given that life up...we can be super friends now".

Luna, despite being the love interest, was wasted and was such a plot device.

Chapter 8 onwards felt rushed like they had run out of time to finish the story so they thought of the quickest ways to put it together even though it didn't make sense in some places.

Obvious DLC stories which could have added to the game but were kept to be sold later. Each character had one, it was so obvious.

The Empire being the big bad, especially in the Kingsglaive film yet you never see them in the end. Ardyn was a great villain but they should have just made him the Emperor. All you know is the Emperor turns into a Demon at the end of the game.

Obvious missing maps from Chapter 8 onward. Altissia wasn't as big as it was made out to be, you couldn't explore outside despite the map being made and even the other locations after Altissia like the Snow Storm area where Shiva was located wasn't explored at all. Instead of having a mission in the area to get Shiva they just forced her into the party the easy way (more on this below). The worst one is not allowing us to visit the entire demon infested map in the end. We don't see Cindy, Cid, Cor or Iris.

Story elements coming out of nowhere. Prompto suddenly being an MT (a plot device just to get through a f***** door) or even someone like Gentiana suddenly being an Astral (probably done because they didn't have time to add a mission to get her). Gentiana was to protect/guide the Oracle yet being an Astral she didn't protect or help her against her Astral sister Leviathan, even letting Ardyn stab her when she could obviously stop him like on the trail (she froze him solid).

Things were just too big to ignore...I mean every FF game has it's problems and these problems didn't feel as bad as FF13 but they are still huge flaws to a story which had the potential to be fantastic. The ending is so beautiful aswell, you would have felt even more if there was a better lead up.

[Nitrowolf2]

I enjoyed it the game in terms of gameplay and all those elements related to it and locations and such.

The story however like you said there are far too many things that aren't in the game that tries to explain the story.

It's like destiny it has a base story and you know the objective but to really understand it you have to go to a website and read it.

It was hard for me to even care about Luna because she doesn't have a huge presence in the game until after her death. Her death to me was essentially a war game death where they tried to force emotions on you but you know Jack about the character.

Gentiana being one of the primals wasn't a big issue at all she knew what Luna was supposed to do and her fate, and Luna being an oracle already foresaw her outcome long ago. Yeah i would have preferred a fight, but im fine with how it was.

Wtf happened to Cor? He has a role early game but after a few chapters he just vanishes then doesn't play any type of role again that's on screen.

Prompto being a MT was the dumbest plot twist. all it was to do was just for him to open a door that's it, otherwise it obviously felt super forced in and pointless. There were never indication that he was one, and in regards to the matter its still unknown if hes a full blown robot or human, or a varation of a damien. The game doesnt make that clear with the information and cross referncing it with the out of game source material it all counters one another.

Also concerning dlc being held back, people are gonna argue as theres no evidence that was the case, but come on theres a few instances in the game where it obviously is, like gladious going out on his own adventure.

Still though in my opinion when you combine everything together it's a pretty enjoyable story. I won't deny that it's a mess in presentation

[-Foxtrot]

Like I've said so many times Luna had a way better relationship with Nyx in Kingsglaive then she did with Noctis and that was because she had a heavy presence in the film. If they just made it so Noctis took his place in the film or even make Nyx the main character then the development for her would have been better.

Cor just vanished. He apparently trained Prompto, Ignis and Galdious along with Iris during the 10 year gap but we never see him. I still find it funny they trained with him for 10 years and even managed to hold their own when Noctis left them to go after the Crystal but we are supposed to believe that when they stayed behind after the Ardyn fight to let Noctis use the Crystal and sacrifice himself they died? Now is that because Noctis dying meant the gangs power to the crystal was cut off and they had no weapons? They didn't draw their weapons in Chapter 13 when Noctis couldn't use his. However this isn't explained fully and that's the problem you find in this game

Prompto is another issue, it's obvious he was used to open the door and have a "we don't care who you are we still love you" moment but why not just get them to fight a small mini boss and disable a generator or something. What the game doesn't tell you is that Verstael Beslthia, the Empires lead researcher and who was featured in the film is Promptos biological father. It's something they kept from Nomuras version where he said himself Prompto was going to have a dark backstory where his father basically tested on him when he was younger and did all kinds of shit which is why he's so cheery and puts on a smile...because deep down he's hurting. This shows how unfinished the game was and they didn't even change this. If it's kept for DLC then again it's disgusting.

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

So much wasted potential, in this state, the story for the game may as well be a throw away plot. This really could have been one of the best games in the series.

[notachance]

yeah it's like they only completed the first 1/3 part of the game and rushing the rest of it

we got many cutscenes both important and unnecessary ones during the early part of the game yet almost every key plot near the end are told only by either realtime dialogue or scattering notes. Like how they told Ravus's backstory only with 4 notes scattering around his corpse.. for god's sake they didn't even bother to make cutscenes about his dead or about the fall of the empire at all, and we only know the fate of emperor when we get to fight him.

It's actually weird how a supposed super power and technologically advanced country like the imperials managed to fall only in a short time, a country that big should've got at the very least one brilliant mind in there to halt the fall, or figure out Ardyn's plan or something... it's not natural to have the most powerful country not fighting back man.

And how did Luna get back to Altissia anyway? the ferry stopped, and it takes great effort by the gang and Cid to repair just a single boat so that they can go there. Also the little part about visiting Tenebrae is just... wtf, what's the purpose other than to forcefully insert Biggs and Wedge to the story?

[Irishguy95]

According to leaks, cuts from the game due to time include, seems the devs wanted another 6 months:

- Luna scenes were cut due to complaints on FF women.
- There was an explorable area at Shiva
- At altissia, originally you arrive just before its attack and explore a short dungeon
- lestallum...in the dark world, at the end..was supposed to be explorable! But was cut
- Some Character designed were set in stone since Versus days due to contracts(for example Roen)
- originally we were to see eldercept in the niflheim throne room. For some reason, cut!
Theres a good bit more.

Also, Prompto is NOT an MT. He's Nif born. His dad is that guy that got no screen time at all.

Also, for the most part, Gentiana is GUIDING Noctis...

These things were explained a good bit in the game I think you missed em. Noctis and Luna were to make noctis the 'true king'. If Aerdyn really wanted to he could defeat the astrals. Just like Noctis can when he goes super sayin! He doesn't mind getting frozen if Shiva is going to give Noctis the power Ardyn wanted him to have. Why would he resist there?

Stuff like that, I mean...we could go all the way back to...I guess, every FF? And say, oh why didn't they just summon all their summons at once to destroy the enemy.

Defeating ardyn on the ground is not the problem, the problem is defeating him in afterlife. Which is why Ardyn wanted him to gain his power etc. Shiva too. Theres no point fighting Ardyn without someone like Noctis around. As for Luna....man you really didn't pay attention! She has to die! Thats her role! Just like Noctis has to die at the end! They're both sacrificial pawns to defeat the daemons.

But the astrals were to lead Noctis and Luna on the path they chose. Ardyn is a mixed bag of goals and he successfully achieved all of them. Ifrit was the only astral actually against Noctis. The rest were on his side -> So long as he won their help.

Also, I agree on most points you have and in general theres LOADS missing. Not because they meant to intentially leave them out. But because, execs get in the way. For what it was Tabata did a great job recovering from the shenanigans of Nomura but it wasn't enough to leave us all feeling satisfied. I love it for what it is, i'm regretful that all those things are missing. But I loved what we did get. I will pop the game by in my console in a year or two and see what its like then. For at the very least I would expect the 3 MC's stories to cover alot of what was missing from most characters. Especially Prompto as he was in Niflheim while the Deamons took over. The last DLC will have Cor and Iris playable too, some cut content of them in the world of darkness...hoepfully this restored that cut content.

Heres another thing. At some point...the story was...Noctis had killed Stella before the game even started!

[chinosneverdry]

I loved the game and still do but everything you have said here is spot on to be honest.

[Perjoss]

Overall I really liked the game, but out of the 4 main things; story, characters, combat, exploration, I really felt like the story was by far the weakest link. And that's having watched kingsglaive but not including it in my impressions of the game, because why would you, it's sold separately and should be treated as such.

Spoilers ahead...
I feel like they really missed out not making your other 3 bros look older when you go into the future, they did an OK job making noctis look older but the other 3 just had slightly different hair. And even though you go to future Hammerhead you don't get to see older Cindy and her Grandfather.

Overall the story does feel strange and a bit rushed. I was one of the few that didn't mind chapter 13 but it could have been a tad shorter.

Still enjoying the end game stuff and side quest mopping up after 70 ish hours.

[joethetimelord]

Can't say I agree that Kingsglaive shouldn't be taken into account just because it's a separate product.
Many game franchise sequels notably follow up on their predecessors. Metal Gear Solid 4 would make virtually no sense to people who hadn't been playing the previous Metal Gear games, yet the series is generally praised for its sprawling narrative, often for that very reason. The games are sold separately, but they share a universe and they are expected to all be played for full effect. In other words the story is generally treated as one megaproduct, despite separate sales. The dotHack series was an even more direct example of this kind of mega-narrative sold in separate installments, and each preceding installment was expected to be played to aid in the story of the next.

Kingsglaive's relationship to FFXV is the exact same thing on a much smaller scale. Considering Kingsglaive is a large, even vital, part of FFXV's canon it virtually has to be taken into account from a narrative perspective, much like even the likes of Asura's Wrath's DLC ending is ultimately a huge part of that game. Should we have to pay extra for the full story? Hell no. But we do have to take those facets of the narrative into account regardless.

[Sm00thNinja]

Great game. My favorite game this year but.... so try was convoluted af. The emperor, you wouldn't even know what his connection was and why you were fighting Ifrit at the end without a little digging

[Darkfist_Flames]

Finally finished the game, and have to say that i loved the gameplay(except some elements), and the side quests(happy that most doesnt involve fetch quest), but the main story, what the hell is going on?.

[ninsigma]

*Spoilers*
It had the bones of a great story but it was told horribly. Things seemed to be missing (likely because I didn't watch kingsglaive or brotherhood beforehand, which is ridiculous).

Things didn't seem to make sense either, like why did they keep doing what Ardyn said?? Everytime they were like "this creepy guy that we don't trust again....let's do as he says!" And Areanas purpose as well seemed pointless. She's actually a great character and would have loved to have her in the game properly but literally you fight her then next time you see her (following Ardyn once again) she's your buddy. I don't even think they mentioned the fight they had.

They keep talking about the big bad empire but it's basically nonexistent apart from the random soldiers (that annoy you while already fighting other creatures for a quest!!!). I don't even know what happened to the Emporer (I know he's dead at the end but wtf happened??).

Then there's Ravus. Bad guy for majority of the game but then doesn't really explain his turn about at all. And as far as I remember, could be wrong, it's either a radio show or newspaper article (that are optionally picked up) that say Ravus is getting capitol punishment for the failure in Altissia, then you find him dead later in the game...like, what if I hadn't picked up that optional piece?? My GF didn't, and was confused as to why he was randomly dead.

Making Prompto an MT randomly was pointless. I guess they'll do DLC for him in the future to cover that back story but as a plot device in the main game it failed.

Also we see very little of Luna, so we don't really care about her or her relationship with Noct.

Honestly, the game is a blast to play and is one of my favourite games of 2016 but man, the story COULD have been fantastic but unfortunately left a lot to be desired in the end.

Edit: Put some paragraphs into my wall of text :p

[Irishguy95]

Ravus didn't believe Noctis would get the power of the astrals on his side. He did not Noctis would live up to the prophecy. Noctis proves him wrong, continuously, eventually Luna gives her life for Noctis and Noctis absolutely destroys leviathan, for the prophecy(Which both Ravus and Luna knew of). Ravus changes his tune after that and trusts his sisters goal and legacy(Noctis)

Ravus was killed by Daemons, just like everyone else in Niflheim....

This is told in the game! Not through cut scenes(some of it is). Its simple, Niflheim doesn't believe or want to believe that Noctis and the Lucis line is the way to go, in fact the attack the astrals, try to defeat the gods. They try to use daemon power. Niflheim led the world in the demonic state. By defeating the gods they world becomes dark. Science versus Magic. As usual in Final Fantasy, Magic trumps science. Niflheim, ****ed up

I believe you are told of Ravus outside altissia btw, by Lunas servent

[Elda]

Enjoying the game immensely,almost on chapter 14 & still doing sidequests.The story is somewhat of a mess & I wish you could summon anyone at anytime you want.

[drizzom]

Needed more Iris.

Alright to be serious, on the subject of gameplay, I do kind of like it but as a game that's trying to be an action game, it certainly needs much more improvements. I like that they have just frame dodges and blindside advantages provide a good reason to look for openings. I like how you can equip different weapons that can change your stats and warp here and there and attack with a diverse arsenal of. However the dynamics of combat shows some flaws when dealing with a huge number of enemies or when. Like, Its very hard to see just who is attacking when your swarmed and surrounded. Some attacks come from off screen without warning. Your left having to hold square throughout the entire fight "just in case" instead of aiming to anticipate an attack and nailing a just dodge.

Also, some fights are so incredibly one sided and your party gets mauled quickly. It ends up being an exercise of using potions when your knocked out. As long as you have phoenix downs, you can never really get game over even when Noctis HP reaches zero. Its a very polarized way to balance difficulty.

Even with all that, the most visible and IMO largest issue in combat I see is the CAMERA. Not only is it not consistent on what enemy it end up targeting on. But its also subject to glitching out pretty often when in dungeons. Ive had instances where I think I'm locked onto one enemy but I end up dashing off to some other enemy even when Im holding R1. Also, when fighting in a bushy landscape, the trees and rocks often get in the way and I cant see anything. One would think they would make the foliage go transparent when the camera gets obstructed by them but that doesn't happen.

The gameplay shows some good elements but it needs much more work before it can be something really special.

[Sharingan_no_Kakashi]

The story did have many issues but it wrapped up pretty nicely. That last camp scene had me tearing up :(

[Boog_89]

This game was like MGS5, a terrifically fun game with a great world to play in with a boring story and weak characters. I like the 4 main guys but most of the supporting cast are very forgettable. When you compare it to a well told story such as FF10 it shows how poor FF15s is. Its still a great game I am very happy with my purchase, 100 hours well spent but could have been much better.

[cash_longfellow]

While getting there seems a bit rushed and rough in spots, the ending is absolutely perfect in my opinion.