Have RPG's lost their charm? Join ScreenCritics Emily as she ponders the direction that RPG's are taking in modern gaming.
There are still some charming ones, World of Final Fantasy is a good example. You are also talking about jrpg's and not rpg's in general I guess. Western RPG's like The Witcher 3 are as charming as Fallout back around 20 years ago.
jrpg's have taken a huge step back because japanese developers did not adapt to the new hardware as much as western rpg's. this was a problem dating back to the beginning of last generation. not sure if it's because they dont have as large of a budget or consoles just aren't as popular over there and most of the good ones are on handhelds.
May I ask what you would classify games made by "From Software" are? I will make it easy on you how about Zelda RPG's? Sorry, I forgot the Metal Gear franchise, the original Resident evil games and how about Kingdom Hearts?
I think CD Projekt RED may take objection to have The Witcher 3 being called a Western RPG. After all, Poland is classified as an eastern European country on the Baltic Sea that is known for its medieval architecture and Jewish heritage.
True, CDPR is about as Eastern as you get until you get to Japan LOL. JRPGs have not adapted well but there are still plenty. A lot of problems are the Western gamer has went from complex Western role playing games like Ultima and Knights of the Old Republic which are really well thought-out, to Skyrim which is basically a hack and slash. 90% Skyrim consist of crouching and bow and arrows. It almost takes zero thought to play the game. Thankful for Witcher or kingdoms of amular. As for JRPGSs, Persona 5 looks deep and fresh.
Just because it's called Eastern Europe doesn't make it less of a western RPG. It's still the Christian influenced so called 'western cultural circles'.
To be fair, you're ignoring one of the biggest producers of MMORPG's out there. NCSOFT of South Korea
JRPGs are relics stuck in the past and refuse to update with the times in terms of innovation and design game play. It's why most of these japanese companies are straggling and turning to other options like mobile and panchinko machines. The east just isn't putting out the hits like they used too and most anticipated games are coming from the west. The only real shame are for those who like bug eyed girls with huge boobs who scream and cry and shoot powers out of their hands while showing off their panties, the amount of those games can only mainly be found on Vita and some dark corner of the PC.
What is wrong with bug eyed girls with big boobs shooting powers out of their hands while showing off their panties?
It's just a marketing strategy I guess? Just like Anime has adapted the same things, don't like the modern animes one bit. They have such bloated assets, makes me disgusted lol
"The east just isn't putting out the hits like they used too and most anticipated games are coming from the west" Speak for yourself. I have World of Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy XV, Kingdom Hearts 2.8, Kingdom Hearts III, Valkyria: Azure Revolution, and Persona 5 to look forward to. PS- your assessment of JRPGs is grossly uninformed. None of the games I mentioned are like that.
I don't disagree with you as I'm purchasing most of the games that you listed myself but that doesn't make his comment any less valid. You buying it doesn't actually classify as a hit... Now I disagree with a couple things that xDeal is saying but for the most part I believe it's sort of undeniable that we have not seen as much hits in regards to huge sales from Japanese RPGs. Put it this way the Witcher or fallout can come out and sell huge millions in the West... But the thing with the West is many Western RPGs could come out in still sell huge Millions. Basically Dragon Quest , Pokemon ,Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy essentially have a Stranglehold on the Japanese Market in regards to being the only RPGs that even move such units. Yet in regards to Western design many companies can come out and create a western RPG that gets a large amount of sales. I think when Horizon zero Dawn and cyberpunk 2077 releases it's essentially going to show you that indeed the West is more open to purchasing RPGs that are new than the east. The Eastern Market has this bizarre love affair with specific established properties so much so that it's essentially difficult for these Japanese companies to create something new. Some of the top Japanese RPGs that have released in the last ten to fifteen years in Japan are still some of the top properties that are still releasing. In the last four years can anyone even name a Japanese RPG that is come out and sold even a couple million that was a brand new ip? I understand that we all love Japanese RPGs but we at least have to acknowledge something is definitely wrong with the market currently. It's almost as if only the top properties have any traction with the Japanese consumers. Anything new seems to get banished to the shadow Realm lol
_-EDMIX-_, You're actually taking my post out of context. As I said in the beginning of my reply, "speak for yourself". By no means am I suggesting the aforementioned games will be classified as "hits" (frankly, I'm curious to know what the exact parameters for "hits" are by modern gamer standards). What I am saying is that, in reply to them saying eastern developers aren't putting out the hits like they used to, I'm saying that I disagree from my own perspective and nothing more. Those are games I'm looking forward to and I'm already convinced they'll all be gems for me. Why? Because I've played demos for three of them, two have extremely solid track records, and then there's the wild card (Kingdom Hearts III) which seems to be in good hands.
Looking for downvotes, eh?
He found them.
Downvotes are nothing new. Lol
Play bloodborne! Or dark souls 3. Does MGSV count?
Well Ni no kuni and Persona 4 Golden were released fairly recently and were extremely well recieved, just to name a couple of turn based jrpgs. I think the problem wasn't that they are outdated, in fact turn based jrpgs age better than most games, but that there were just so many of them on snes and ps1 that the market just got over saturated. They seem to be making a return now though, Im really looking forward to Persona 5.
People keep saying that jrpgs are making a return and in reality they're not. The ones that have been released so have been failures. Everytime one releases I read the same comment, wait for Persona 5, a game that has been delayed for years, a game that was originally planned for PS3. As I said, no innovation, no progress especially when the biggest non FF jrpg to look forward to is a ps3 port.
You are forgetting the oversized weapons, and all teenage cast, who came in straight from the catwalk, and are so forgettable, because they are almost identical to the characters in the last JRPG you played.
Nah there are still plenty of quality RPGs these days
Care to name a view? I mean the once that come close to the quality of FFVII, FFIX, Suikoden 2 or Chrono Trigger
Ni No Kuni, Fallout 4, Mass Effect 2, Bravely Default, Pokémon Sun/Moon, Persona 5, Bloodborne, Witcher 3, etc. There have been plenty of great RPGs every generation
Thank you. I was hoping someone would straighten out the facts. RPGs have been doing fantastic. And as much as people love knocking on the FF13 series, FF13: LR was actually a fantastic game. And more recently, we just got another great one -- Deus Ex. And we are getting Ni No KUni 2, another Valkyria Chronicles, NI Oh. Man, this gen has been great for us RPG lovers! Sometimes I think some people love the "idea" of an RPG, but not RPGs themselves lol
Not sure if it counts but Valkyria Chronicles was also a phenomenal game. I love it's gameplay and story.
Many great rpg's and jrpg's released over the course of last generation and this generation. I don't know what they're trying to say. My only gripe is now that I'm older I don't have as much time to play them.
If you read the article, it's that RPGs are moving from more of a vague exploration to a fairly linear experience. The author basically wants a game filled with hidden paths, secret rooms and a ton of other things. Think something more like World of Final Fantasy, just more open than that. Now, while I get where the author is coming from, I think this is more of a budget thing than anything else. Extremely high quality graphics, plus large places, in addition to tons of hidden secrets costs a fair bit of cash. Likely more than a company wants to invest. Plus there are still some that do, but they're becoming less common.
I don't think that argument holds up. There are tons of open rpg's available to people that have just as much freedom as they have in the past. Maybe they're slightly fewer in quantity due to graphics and production values being sky high nowadays but it's not like there aren't any. I find the whole argument to have no substance.
I feel this same way. Was just thinking this very thing yesterday. I've got so many games to play still, along with FFXV, RE7, Horizon Zero Dawn, and Persona 5 all coming soon that I want to get. Even though I don't have the time to play the games anymore like I used to, being older has given me the money to buy the games I want to get. I definitely have more games today than I did back then.
I have the same situation. I still have ps3 games to beat let alone the ones I have for ps4
Yes this is my problem. It takes a long time for me to finish one nowadays. When I take a break from the last time I played and then come back, I have a hard time remembering the plot and where I left off last time.
I think this article is speaking more of Jrpgs. And while FF13 tried to move into next gen gaming by altering its formula dramatically, effected by Western rpgs, No No Kuni did it perfectly. It still had an over map, modes of transport, a good battle system including capturing enemies, an amazing story and characters, towns with atmosphere and side quests, as well as great progressive difficulty and gameplay. NNK is what FF13 could have been. Now that FF15 has gone almost entirely the way of the WRPG, it will be interesting to see if it holds up, as the bar has been set very high. As far as rpgs in general, TW3 has shown that they are alive and well and at the top of the video game world, capable of unbelievable immersion and captivating storytelling. Yes, I do miss the more calculated aspects of some jrpg combat systems, but TW3 wasn't too bad. I assume that Cyberpunk2077 will be even better. Dark Souls does well in this department, as it does in almost every other aspect too. Games like DS and TW ruin other rpgs for me and many others. If FF15 is able to offer an atmospheric open world with a lot to do, a deep combat system with worth customization and a grand complex tale, it may just hold its own. It's quite the leap though from king of the east, taking on western juggernauts that many consider some of the best games ever made.
Great point in NNK. It's the only console JRPG that comes to mind since PS2 that retains the feel and quality of the JRPGS of old.
That may be true, but I actually like the balance in the KH/FFVIIR system. That said, not enough of them have a budget for such a system. I really think Platinum should start making these J/ARPGs, they seem like a perfect studio.
Funny you mention that, because MS contracted them to do just that, with Scalebound. Whether Scalebound will actually turn out to be good remains to be seen though.
Jrpgs mostly aren't what they used to be due to developers trying to Westernize their franchises. But Square has waken up after releasing a throwback to the old school with Bravely Default. Minus this years Star Ocean and Square has returned back to its old image now with World of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest Builders.. I love the demo of FFXV and will be playing the full game this Tuesday.
Technically speaking square has always been releasing RPGs like that Bravely Default is technically a spiritual successor to Final Fantasy 4 Heroes of Light, square has been releasing the Star Ocean and Dragon Quest games periodically as well. If anything I would say world the Final Fantasy and I am setsuna is showing even more that they are very much open to continuing options for the older concepts.
Mainline numbered Final Fantasy is not what it used to be. The extreme focus on realism detracts from the fantasy.
I was saying this the otherday. When looking at the dragoon fight in FFXV, they were in some construction-type complex. Everything seemed great battlewise, but I couldn't help but think it should have been some type of castle complex instead. Most western games have a construction area, JRPGS have fantastical areas, and FFXV seems to blow it in certain scenarios. That said, I'm still buying the game, but it should have been a bit more medieval-esque IMO. A balance between fantastical and real is best. FFXV seems 75% real, 25% fantastical. 50/50 would have been nicer.
I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about because the modern final fantasies better more so Semi Syfy have been around since Final Fantasy 6. They have many different settings in regards the steampunk , sci-fi Victorian etc. Or did you forget that in Final Fantasy 7 Cloud was riding a motorcycle in a city? I'm pretty positive if you played Final Fantasy 7 today as Final Fantasy 15 in Final Fantasy 7 as you know it was never created you would still make these comments not knowing that they likely would have done such a thing years prior anyway. When you look at Final Fantasy 15 it's actually not that far off from Concepts that we already know of in Final Fantasy. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by realism especially considering this game still has people with magic powers and monsters being summoned so I'm not entirely sure in what world do you see that as "realism". Please don't make vague and generalizing comments, be specific to what you're talking about give examples please. If I could give an example to prove you wrong, you should be giving just as many examples to prove your own Point correct.
Yeah but everything was ridiculously industrialized, dystopian, etc. It didn't remind me of an actual city, Midgar was extremely stylized. I don't see that level of stylization with FFXV in some aspects. I like that Tabata brought the American Retro, European, Islander, etc themes to FFXV rather than Nomura's plain Japanese(and the Japanese felt the same way), but there's also Medieval influence and I think they could have used more of it.
Except this game wasn't made in a few years, Nomra himself stated his concept is actually intact. "but there's also Medieval influence and I think they could have used more of it." Ummmm ok, there isn't in FFVII, or FFVIII or FFX, You legit don't know they've made sci-fi Final fantasies? Again... all FF are different bud. You can't simply assume what you think it should be when it's actually never been consistent in the first place. When you make a Final Fantasy game that you could include those things bud.
Are there different races on Eos with their own societies, technology or culture? Any strange and fantastical locales that you wouldn't expect in the real world? Is anything stylized in a manner reminiscent of a fantasy?
RPGs are changing because technology is. You can achieve much more in real time than you can in turn based. Plus, most newer gamers aren't too accepting of being attacked and not being able to do anything about it. They like to dodge, counter, parry, attack, take cover, etc. You have to put yourselves in their shoes and take nostalgia out of the equation sometimes.
Completely agreed. The people who keep romanticizing the days of turn-based do not have much evidence to support that such a concept is even successful in regards to sales. Even with me loving the concept and purchasing games like I am setsuna and world of Final Fantasy I do not see every gamer wanting to play with older concept. If such a gameplay style was in demand you would see a huge spike in sales of something like I am setsuna and world of Final Fantasy or even Bravely Default to suggest that there was a fleet of Gamers that all wanted this style of gameplay doesn't really hold much real weight in regards to evidence because I just don't see the sales to say that that much Gamers really exist that would ever support something like a main Final Fantasy game. Don't get me wrong I still like turn-based, but I have yet to see any evidence that there is this Secret market of Gamers that all want this game play style because the funny thing about it is they seem to refuse to want to even by turn-based games that are even currently out. So apparently they want turn-based so bad that they're willing to not buy turn-based games that exist right now? When something is in demand you see a spike in sales of the games that are releasing with the concept that is in demand in the first place For turn-based games to be selling as low as they are is suggesting that not as much Gamers wants to play this style , regardless of the game. The share play create games like Little Big Planet went on to sell ridiculous Millions because such a concept was in demand. Minecraft sold ridiculous Millions because it had a concept that was in demand by kids who wanted to create things. Where is this Secret market of Gamers that want turn based games? Cuz apparently they're not out buying turn-based games..
If a game doesn't appeal to someone in other qualities, then they won't go out & buy it just because it's turn based. There is definitely a large audience for turn based games, it's just that the rest of your game has to be good too.
@fer- "There is definitely a large audience for turn based games" Based on what evidence? You got figures to support this or? Where is this so-called large audience for Bravely Default world of Final Fantasy or I am setsuna? I love those games, but I see Zero evidence to suggest a large install base exists that demands these games because the sales do not prove such a theory. If there is a large install base that does want these games they have a funny way of showing it in regards to not purchasing turn-based games lol
I guess most of those action RPG's I played on the NES, SNES, Sega Megadrive, N64, GameCube, PS1, PS2, PS3 and PS4 must have been in my imagination. If you are talking about PvP I guess most newer gamers could not handle games like the Souls series or Bloodborne since you can dodge, counter, parry, attack, take cover, etc. Oh! Wait, you have to "git gud" first. There is nothing wrong with turn based, active turn based and action RPG's providing they are done right. I have seen both good and bad in all of those sub-genres.
I'm not talking about whether they're good or bad. I'm talking about what you're able to do in real time compared to turn based. In turn based you're stuck with a set of commands. In real time you do what you want. A newer gamer would still be more comfortable with Souls games because aside from the difficulty, that's what they're used to. Not turn based.
100% agree, RPGs have advanced along side today's technology in gaming, some gamers conservative take on this subject is confusing to me.
Just bought a sega Saturn and a mini framemeister to replay some rpgs.
As long as they keep making Tales of games, I'm happy.
Amen ever since last gen JRPGs have lost it. Sure there's some like Persona and stuff on the 3DS... but nothing like the SNES and PS1 days
I agree, the RPG scene is declining in quality, story telling, and character development. It's a sad moment when I rather replay earlier games because they have the aspects of a good game, and just because technology is getting better doesn't always mean the games are getting better either.
It's true that better tech doesn't always mean better games. But even today's worst games are doing more than RPGs of the past.
Jrpgs aren't quite as good as they were say 15 years ago but there's still some gems around. Also I think FFXV and Persona 5 will be two of the best games this gen so far.
Bloodborne,Dark Souls 3,World of FF,FFXV,KH 2.8,KH3,Persona 5,Nier:Automata....playing some of these now & will be playing the rest when released.
I play many rpgs, and there are a lot of them that are great. Just need to know what to look for.
Nah not at all. Their are plenty of good ones. You are just picky.
Lol at the dislikes. Digimon cyber sleuth Soul Sacarfice freedom wars Hyper dimension FF13 1-3 Ressonace of fate Exsit archive World of final fantasy Grand Kingdom Ni no Kuni Atelier Sophie Tales of Zesteria Omega Quintet Disgaea 5 List goes on but some how this author wants to make a really dumb comment .
Journalists writing about RPGs just aren't what they used to be
Gamers should stop evolving and go back to their 8-bit roots and stop innovating shit. Yeah. #only90skidsremember Mid-life crises are getting early onsets these days. Just get over it (and yourself)
a lot of dislikes but your point is totally true
There are fewer gems these days. I'd love a HD Remaster of Dragon Quest VIII. Personally I don't like how a lot of Japanese dev's are westernising their JRPG's.
Good ones come out all the time....
the true last HD final fantasy game ever made was lost oddessey on xbox 360 from mist walker studios
There are many RPGs out there that are still very good. I don't believe that they've lost their charm. There are some things I do believe though..... Many times people have no idea what they want When thinking about games and reviewing them, people want to punish them for being something they're not Variety is good. Having too much in one game is not. This being said, we shouldn't keep demanding that every game have all the same things in them. We need turn based too! We as players always want to blame the media and critics for harming games with reviews and the like, yet I strongly believe that the players are a bigger part of the problem. Not so much the fans of certain games, in this case RPGs, but everyone else. The ones that sit on the fence. The ones that want to compare them and their sales to games like COD. Ones that won't be playing them anyway. I believe that people have grown impatient. With the rise of the casuals, gamers don't want things that take too much effort to achieve. This IMO harms gaming. Stop trying to compete with games you'll never touch in terms of sales. Just do what you do and be proud of it.
There are plenty of RPGs with charm....Final Fantasy's main series just isn't one of them anymore. Dragon Quest & Legend of Heroes still do though.