PS4 Pro Is a Powerful Device But You Shouldn't Expect Better Graphics on Top of 4K Support, Says Dev

PS4 Pro is a powerful device, but it cannot deliver both improved image quality and 4K resolution, according to KING Art Games.

Their upcoming title The Dwarves will run at 1080P@30FPS on PlayStation 4 and Xbox One, while the PS4 Pro will deliver higher frame rate.

[KaiPow]

I'm perfectly fine with devs choosing frame rate bumps over AA.

[IndominusRex]

Agreed, but i do think they should give us options such as 4k at 30fps, 1800 at 60fps, etc

[TXIDarkAvenger]

That's why I love what Nioh is doing

https://pbs.twimg.com/media...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media...

I hope others will follow and provide similar options.

[badz149]

But...4K is not better graphics? I didn't know...

[Unspoken]

True, and if you want both 4K and improved visuals go PC. On the PC side you can take visuals even a step further with custom mods and with programs like ReShade.

[IamTylerDurden1]

That's bs. Tomb Raider and Knack both have improved visuals even in 60fps mode.

[Kurdishcurse]

agreed. i actually find sony insanely dumb for marketing this as a 4k machine. maybe you should break the 30 fps barrier 1st sony aye? jeezuz...anyway ill be buying the ff15 ps4p bundle in a few days. cant freakin wait for that game!!!

[kraenk12]

Stop it Rookie.

[dumahim]

Agreed. I toyed with all three settings in Rise of the Tomb Raider for a few hours before sticking with the high framerate.

[ccgr]

Will stick with my current PS4 since I don't have 4K yet

[MRMagoo123]

the console would be even better for you then imo, because you will be choosing the 1080p options on all the pro enabled games and getting much better frame rates on games and graphic increases.

[IamTylerDurden1]

timotim, you are spitting pure nonsense right now. "Quite a few" man c'mon they said Skyrim at native 4K ran slightly worse. I have at least 6 games that go from 30 to a targeted 60fps on Pro. Even R&C seems to run better on Pro on a 1080p tv. Pro has double the GPU and a 31% faster CPU, it's a premium console.

[thegamefox93]

Really? what is up with the dislikes for this comment...

[Eidolon]

because it's been said for months, it's not only for 4k tvs. I was looking at Rise of the Tomb Raider, it has 3 options, high-framerate, enchanced graphics, and 4k mode, 1080p tvs can take advantage of all those options, it obviously downscales the 4K resolution but you can tell a big difference in texture details.

[thegamefox93]

Lets be honest the big catch is 4KTVS, that is their bigger sellng point... and also he is saying that HE is sticking with his ps4, he's not telling anyone else to not buy it even if they dont have 4k...

[XanderZane]

That's what I'm doing, but as soon as I get me my 4K TV, the PS4 Pro is mine.

[IamTylerDurden1]

Many ppl have Pro, but don't have a 4K tv. You get better framerates, supersampling, better fx. It improves VR as well.

[thegamefox93]

1)If you want to get 60 fps, the graphics are pretty much the exact same as the OG ps4 (if the original ps4 game is 30 fps)
2)If you want better textures and antialising, it will be 30 fps
3)If you want 4k resolution (or higher resolution) and HDR, you most likely wont get the benefits from before...

There are always tradeoffs...

[Eidolon]

Frames are the same too, maybe a little better from what I can tell, this might be a huge difference on some games.

[MadMax]

Probably best to grab a new 4K tv and skip the Pro. Use your original PS4, should look great and upscale it a bit. Bound to look better than any 1080p set.

[mad-dog]

That's the wrong argument. Games will look especially good on a 1080P screen. Because of the downsampling.

[crazychris4124]

Well no shit, we have been told this from the beginning. It was always going to be 1080p improved graphics, 1080p high frame rate and 4K/1800p. It was up to developers to implement what they want.

[Vasto]

Waiting for Project Scorpio

[snoopgg]

Me too, but will play my ps4pro for right now.

[Imp0ssibl3]

Agreed. Will play PS4 Pro now until Scorpio hits, the PS4 Pro will be relegated to just the exclusives.

[DAEMONIFEAR]

My PS4pro is great I guess but my X1s still gets more play time! It may be upscaled 4K games but the scorpio will bring it's titles to 4K and I have a huge back catalogue of games to play and my Pro is the exclusives only machine my PS3 was last gen!

You may ask X1 why? well it's simple my clan, friends, the community, controller, xbox live superior connectivity and the years I'd already put into XBOX since the original and even since then XBOX has been under rated and as usual playstation/Sony play their superiority card but it's just not true imo PS2 had a tonne of games but 90% of them were absolutely crap and even then my XBOX got more play time like a hooker in a brothel! Lol

But seriously date back to the early 90's Sony were playing their superiority card then with Sega and Nintendo and they used a CD drive and a couple exclusives as their force to drive the PSX it worked for them and even till now they still try the same tactics to achieve a power stand over MS with their XBOX but I personally think, yes MS came out with stupid comments (nothing but comments, it's just words) as first but now they've got themselves in a position that Sony can't really position themselves on to counter what MS do besides just bringing out the PS5 which won't happen for a long time!

Just think of it like this..
PS4 Pro double the GPU power that's great but XB1s upscales and has UHD player (attractive to some as some still like physical discs over unreliable internet connections not everyone has high speeds) at a cheaper price and to point out PS4pro only upscales no game is native 4K amd HDR XB1s does that and before Sony did again at a cheaper price!

Then Scorpio comes around which isn't the next gen XBOX at all as stated it's just the boss of the X1 family and it has actual native 4K capabilities so you're getting true 4K and HDR which by then will be better implemented!

So Sony what's their next step exactly? They be like PS5 next year or even 2018 ppl will be furious as many already were with the PS4pro that should have been as some see it!

I'm not knocking or hating Sony I just dislike their ethics and Sony for me have the worst customer service! It's basically a oh well too bad go buy a new one attitude! When XBOX/MS replace anything on the spot for free and shipped to and from free!

Supporting a company that uses school yard tactics to pick on and manipulate the market yeah sure righteo, Sony! (Y)

[Shineon]

mee too playing ps4 pro cant wait to see what scorpio has

[sampson3121]

still waiting?

[XanderZane]

Everyone has to wait for something. Still waiting for The Last Guardian, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Sea of Thieves, Scalebound, Crackdown 3, etc...Have no problem waiting for good games and good systems.

[Razzer]

He is going to wait a while and he is going to game on an inferior system while he waits. Shame.

[Vasto]

I will be playing Xbox One S while waiting.

[IamTylerDurden1]

You're so concerned with having the more powerful console in a yr from now, but perfectly fine with playing a weaker one for another yr.

[ShadowKnight]

Good for you. You want a cookie 😂😅
I'll be waiting for the PS5. You see what I did there.

@Bansai Salty? 🤔 the console war is already over and I own an Xbox one 😂

[Bansai]

so salty

[Kurdishcurse]

such an insecure comment shadowknight. im thinking youre the kid that wants the cookie.

[threefootwang]

Ill take that cookie! Tell you what, send it to me the same day Scorpio is officially released, that way I get two great things in one day. Then when I finish it, I'll send you a picture of the empty cookie wrapper so you know your kind gesture didn't go to shame 😆😆

[ShadowKnight]

@Threefootwang

Great. Hopefully the Scorpio will help Microsoft sell more units and catch up with Sony this generation 😏

You remember what you said Threefootwang
"I'm honestly perfectly fine with Scorpio/Xbox being in second place behind Sony.

I'm even ok with a smaller crowd of online players (Fact is, a lot of casuals and kids already own PS4. The chances of them jumping ship will be slim at this point).

As long as Xbox is second, MS is going to constantly push for new exclusives and more games to even the numbers, which guess what, I'm perfectly OK with that too!

So by all means"

Microsoft is not going to push for first party exclusives buddy 😅😆

[threefootwang]

@ ShadowKnight

Lol. I could care less who sells more. I buy what I prefer. Why are you trying to change the subject?

My comment was meant to be funny, nothing else.

I still stand by what I said originally. With Spencer running ship, MS's direction has changed drastically. Expect new exclusives to come out the next couple of years.

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

Neither the Pro or Scorpio have enough power for a big leap in graphics due to diminishing returns.

[starchild]

I'm not sure I can agree. I think that we still have a looong road ahead where improvements in graphical detail and realism will still be noticeable and appreciated. I personally would love to play something with the visual realism of Avatar in real-time, for example. That would be incredible.

The real reason we won't see a big jump in graphics with PS4 Pro and Scorpio is that they are simply more powerful versions of the regular PS4 and XB1. Games have to run on both versions of each console. So usually we're going to get higher resolutions or, less often, higher framerates on the same games. Core graphical improvement won't occur to nearly the same degree.

[BossBattle]

Yeah by then there'll be more 4k content. Plus 4k TVs will cheap by then

[Aenea]

I'm waiting for the PS5, will be playing on PS4 pro while waiting :)

[alb1899]

I think is fair if you have a ps4 and the xone to wait until Scorpio and ps5 arrives.
I don't see any convincing reason to upgrade to pro because in 2 years there will be a ps5 and in one a Scorpio.
The ps exclusives can be played in my ps4 soooo.

[Rimeskeem]

Why not just PC?

[ILostMyMind]

Because he needs to quote the XBO in a PS4 news to generate flame, even though anyone can now have a more powerful "Scorpio" than Microsoft will launch later next year.

[IamTylerDurden1]

Have a nice 12 months.

[mad-dog]

Same deal i'm afraid. A bit better probably. A bit though.
The whole problem will be: What extra effort will devs make? Because the Scorpio will not have exclusives either. It will share its library with the XboxOne.

[oasdada]

I was going to.. but just got a pc instead.. with more teraflops than a scorpio.. but still cant substitute for a ps pro. Need dem exclusives

[Omnislashver36]

I wonder how well 1440p scales to 4K with checkerboard... That would be a nice compromise for better graphics.

[Alexious]

That's probably an interesting option. 1440P doesn't require a lot more horsepower than 1080P.

[Movefasta1993]

You sure about that?When i switch from 1440 down to 1080 it's usually a difference of 15-20 fps on PC.
@Alex yep,maybe it's different on pc,but for tw3,i can get 60fps on high settings on 1440p,but when i reduce the res down to 1080 it jumps to the high 70s and even 80s.

[Alexious]

@Movefasta1993

That's weird. 1440P is equivalent to 3,686,400 pixels while 1080P equals to 2,073,600 pixels. That's a 1.77X increase, while 4K is a flat 4x increase over 1080P and much more demanding on any hardware.

[Ju]

I agree. I wouldn't mind more developers pushing 1440p @ 60fps - and a bit more features.

[yomfweeee]

You admit below it is 1.77x increase in pixels, not sure how that isn't a lot more? It isn't 4x, but don't act like it isn't nothing.

[Aenea]

That's not how it works tho...

Checkerboard rendering is not a drop in replacement for upscaling, it actually helps the devs render at a higher target resolution with almost half the power needed from the GPU.

This means that a game that is being build from the ground up to support the Pro can actually use checkerboard rendering to achieve 2160p while only needing double the power of what the game needs for native 1080p.

Many games, especially the ones that wouldn't reach native 1080p on the base PS4, will use checkerboard rendering to achieve 1800p after which it will do a normal upscale to 2160p...

[Silly gameAr]

You don't say.

[GNCFLYER]

So much salt and trying to hard everywhere I turn.

So much salt in this thread, especially the last few pages.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthr...

[ps5fanboy]

Bollocks, give it a good development team...

[Pancit_Canton]

LMAO. I was expecting a gamingbolt article from the headline. Anyway, Who the **** is King Art games? It some random developers you never heard or never made a hit title from any console.

[kevnb]

other devs have managed both, just saying.

[sampson3121]

nice to know that all the BULL$hit people are spewing about "don't by the pro if you don't have a 4k tv."

eat that $hit.

[strangerthings1995]

In other words the graphics are basically just 4x uglier.

[Maxor]

4K HDR is great even though the frame rate is garbage. In some games like Dues EX I'm willing to suffer through that peasant FPS for the sweet 4K HDR.

[abstractel]

I don't know how educated this writer is, but as someone who works in the games industry I know that studios are still just getting used to the Pro. That's why SE's FFXV's initial support is not that great and are planning on releasing a patch in December to enhance the game for the Pro. It's also why Watch Dogs 2 struggles.

It's not like a whole new generation, but devs have had so little time to adjust to it. It was revealed to 3rd party 6 months before release because of risk of leaks causing PS4 to drop in sales. That's also exactly what happened when it leaked and it got worse after it was announced.

Fully taking advantage of the extra GPU and extra 512mb of ram isn't as simple as flicking a switch in the code. Next year we'll see games running better on the Pro with 1440p-1600p checkerboarding along with other graphical enhancements which wccftech is saying right now isn't possible. I expect Horizon Zero Dawn to be the first game to truly take advantage of the extra power.

[Aenea]

I also think the 1st party dev studios knew way, way earlier about the Pro. Those leaked dev documents (more a slideshow they used to present it to devs at GDC) it stated they had collaborated with some devs already...

[DAEMONIFEAR]

This is what I keep telling ppl they'll lose textures/fps..etc..just to achieve 4K at a sub par quality! People need to stop raging on that Sony have secret sauce for the Pro! 16bitx16bit textures to achieve 8.4tf as some believe is terrible FPS/RPG or any real AAA title will never benefit from it it's basically a downgrade on graphic textures..etc..just to achieve 4K have fun believing more of Sonys dribble! Mark Cerny isn't that great he's only 1 man! So stop praising him!

[MasterCornholio]

He's one man with a very valuable brain.

http://www.gamasutra.com/vi...

"The Academy of Interactive Arts & Sciences will honor legendary game developer Mark Cerny with an induction into its Hall of Fame alongside luminaries such as Shigeru Miyamoto, Sid Meier, John Carmack, and Will Wright."

But your right about one thing. He is just one part of PlayStations greatness. With Andrew House, Shuhei Yoshida and others working for the brand is what makes it so great for gamers.

[Aenea]

How about next to 4k support instead?

Like Tomb Raider is doing it, different options, I rather like that!

[Bolts]

Dat 30 25-30 FPS.

[thegamefox93]

all these articles and videos showing comparisons and talking about advantages/disadvantages on the ps4, xbox one, xbox one S, scorpio, and pro makes me sick TBH...

[Aenea]

First off: checkerboard rendering is not a drop in replacement of upscaling, it doesn't use frame of size x in, frame of size y out like an upscaling algorithm does. It's also the reason why I think it's incorrect to call it upscaling. But no matter what you call it, it can't be simply used in place of upscaling.

When a developer from the ground up of their game keeps the Pro in mind (or when they aren't too close to release) they can easily use checkerboard rendering. It can achieve higher resolutions (in a non-native way) for about half the GPU power needed when it would render natively because it actually only renders half the pixels per frame.

This means that if the game can render at a steady frame rate in 1080p on the base PS4 it can achieve 2160p using checkerboard rendering. If it does not reach 1080p or not a steady frame rate on the base PS4, they can use checkerboard rendering to achieve 1800p after which they can upscale the old fashioned way to 2160p.

FYI:
- checkerboarded rendering of 2160p would need a GPU that's twice as powerful as you would need for 1080p
- checkerboarded rendering of 1800p would need a GPU that's 1.39 times as powerful as you would for 1080p

The Pro is 2.3 times more powerful...

So if a dev can achieve 1080p@60fps on base PS4, then on the Pro they still could go for checkerboard rendering to 1800p (and then upscale to 2160p) AND also turn on better lighting, better shadowing, better anything!

Right now most games were already in development and Pro support is something they added afterwards, once games come out where they could incorporate it easier from the beginning then they can and probably will look a lot better besides just adding 4k support. Next year we will see this happen already!

[zivtheawesome]

you also forgot the dual half floats method which could squeeze even more power to the console. in the end optimization is where it's at.

[ziggurcat]

Except if a game is native 4K, and uses 4K textures... it's better graphics...

[ILostMyMind]

So make games 1080p/60fps with superior graphics.

[ITPython]

For 1080p I'd much rather have a frame rate bump and/or increase in graphical fidelity (textures, shadows, lighting etc) than the supersampling AA which makes the image way too soft and blurry for my likes.

I'll take a sharp crisp image with enhanced details over a soft/blurry image with smooth edges any day. Sadly so far this doesn't seem to be the trend with much of the pro enhanced games.

[jc12]

1080P/60FPS should be the target for all developers.

[theXtReMe1]

Im happy with what many devs are doing at 1800p, the upscale is barely recognizable from true 4K... and what companies like IO are doing with games like Hitman is truly astonishing. Not only 1800p, but with higher resolution textures, better lighting, AA and more environmental detail. So, Im not sure the author of the article has seen what IO has done, but I expect games that were started from the second the dev kits were sent out into the future will be developed first on the Pro and then scaled back for the PS4 proper. Meaning that they will take full advantage of the Pros hardware. So Im interested to see how games over the next year evolve. Im not expecting games to be true 4K, but Id rather have 1800p with better textures, effects, lighting and detail than true 4K with little to none of that, anyways.

[ufo8mycat]

"Shouldn't expect improved image quality & 4K"

Erm this is EXACTLY what it does.

I think the author is confusing Image Quality with "Graphical effects/detail"
The Pro still receives a nice bump in texture quality, AF, shadow quality etc but not as big obviously because it has to render the game at a higher resolution.

The image quality improvements though is insane.
Watch Dogs 2 for example went from a jaggy/shimmering mess on the PS4, to a extremely crisp, sharp image. 95% of the jaggies are gone. The texture detail @ 4K is still a step up from PS4. It actually makes a huge difference, even those still on 1080p displays.

The Pro gives a nice bump over PS4 in texture detail, shadows, AF etc in 4K mode (even bigger bump for games that have a enriched mode but game will be 1080p)

The Pro gives a HUGE bump in Image Quality if you choose to play @ 4K mode (even downscaled for 1080p users)

[iJihaD]

Why shouldn't we expect better Graphics in 1080p?! Way better than same GFX in 4K.

[mad-dog]

Oh it can, but devs won't do it as much. THAT will take way more time compared to the default patch.
But for me, downscaling to 1080P is fine. That's why i bought it.

Everything else is a bonus. And depending on the game, that is certainly possible.

[InTheZoneAC]

PS4 900p/1080p @ locked 30FPS
PS4 Pro I would prefer to bump the frame rate to a locked 60FPS with better AA, better lighting, more on screen effects, etc. I don't need models to have twice the polygon count or the resolution to be double.

[Derceto]

Think I'll wait 12 months for Scorpio. Maybe put some effort into it next console Sony. Bumping clock cycles and unlocking a few CUs doesn't justify this thing even existing.

[kraenk12]

Enjoy your three times slower console until then.

[Babadook7]

@Derceto Thanks for the salt. Gonna go well with this popcorn. ;)

[super_bruno]

In other word "PS4 Pro Is a Powerful Device but not powerful enough.

[hiawa23]

I am fine with improving image and framerate improvement at 1080p.

[pyroxxx]

I thought 4K was the better graphics,.. At least that is how higher resolution or supersampling works,.. I am sure most games will also feature higher reso assets. I would still take higher frame rate as a trade off if possible,.. since base PS4 games look bananas as it is

[Tzuno]

The powahhh!!! of Christ compels you!!!

[DoubleYourDose]

Is the Pro powerful enough to hit 60FPS and improve the graphics on 1080p games that were running at 30FPS?
It seems like I have been reading that it is either framerate or graphics that get improved, but not both. I would think both could be accomplished for many games.

[Babadook7]

I don't expect both for every game at all...

Just give me PS4 games with flawless image quality as standard...
>>1800p or so (like Watch Dogs 2) ✔️
And when a dev goes out of their way (like DICE did for BF1) we also get...
>>better textures, more detail and more stable frame rates. ✔️

This is a great situation for Pro owners.

[bean59]

I think some people are expecting too much and are quick to forget that we are still pretty early into the 4K standard.

[Ulf]

I'll take 1080p/60 over sorta 4k/30, any day.

Down sample from 1440p, and win/win, if you want a better image. The Scorpio will be the same way, except that the down sampling could come from a 1600p source, and still maintain good FPS