Phil Spencer on Project Scorpio backwards compatibility: No “technical wizardry” required

Stevivor -- In discussion with Phil Spencer in Sydney last month, the Head of Xbox explained how Xbox titles will run without effort on the upcoming Project Scorpio.

[XXanderXX]

Every article about Scorpio makes the wait much more enjoyable & exciting .
Can't wait to obtain my unit at release .

[Bigpappy]

Scorpio will be a monster. It will obviously play everything better.

[Gazondaily]

Man this console just seems more and more beastly the more I hear about it. Can't wait to see its unveiling next year.

[freshslicepizza]

thats what you call forward thinking, allow games to carry over.

[vegasgamerdawg]

This is the first time I'm considering buying a console out of the gate. I usually wait a min. of a year for games to release. But, I've 170 games on my X1 now and they'll all carry over and hopefully some will get patched. I like where things are going. 4K TV first, Ps4 pro then the Scorpio next year.

[Automatic79]

Bac Compat is smooth on Xbox One. I believe the same will migrate to the beast Scorpio.

[brich233]

Did you read what they said? Thier is no bc like on original xbox one, its specifically designed to run both xbox one and xbox 360. This would mean no downloading games off xbox live for 360 games and just playing or installing from disc I suppose, or maybe they will force us to download the digital version.

“We’ve very specifically designed it [on Scorpio] so Xbox games just run,” he said, referring to both Xbox 360 and Xbox One titles.

“It’s nothing like Xbox 360 backwards compatibility right now — there’s a lot of technical wizardry involved in that. We didn’t want to have to do that again.”

[Auron]

Wwoooww!

[_-EDMIX-_]

Really? Thats a good idea.

Sony probably would have to do a lot to have cell inside PS4, but they could at least try with PS2. Strange, but would be kinda cool for lolz sake.

[Pancit_Canton]

They just wish they have a technical wizard developer like Naughy dog to develop for them. Lol

[XXanderXX]

They have Turn10 & Playground Games when it comes to racing .

[_-EDMIX-_]

I mean...yes but, MOST publishers would want a team like Naughty Dog. Goes without saying.

[jmetalhead77812]

It's just completely irrelevant to the article. Just a pathetic troll.

[_-EDMIX-_]

@jme- agreed though.

Not relevant to anything regarding this article. I don't like how folks don't get marked for trolling when its really ,really clear.

[sammarshall102]

I'll stick with The Coalition

[81BX]

The coalition says hi

[IamTylerDurden1]

The Coalition says hi? Are you saying The Coalition is on par with Naughty Dog in terms of technical wizardry? C'mon, Naughty Dog and Sony Santa Monica are on another level.

[81BX]

Im replying to his comment where he/she said ms wish they had a group of devs like that.... they infact do. Try gears 4 it show cases great dev work.

[Max-Zorin]

^This is why Naughty Dog fans get cussed out. I don't know which is more annoying, Naughty Dog fans, or people that romanticize Joker and Harley Quinn.

[mozzie]

Lol nobody was talking about SONY, ND or UC so please go to another article. You sony boys just can't handle that the Xbox One's design is finally showing how much smarter it is with all the VM Stuff and exclusive OS baked into every game. All scorpio has to do is basically run a VM which is inside every released game on Xbox One. And we already know GoW4, FH3 and Tomb Raider will be in native 4K. Sony on the other hand want's Devs to patch their games, otherwise the Ps4 Pro will shut down half it's GPU. That's not technical wizardry, that's half assing.

[_-EDMIX-_]

I agree with you but there's no reason to be purposely trolling on such articles but please do not generalize all Sony fans because of some rabid fanboy lol

As a PlayStation gamer I don't even use majority of the features on PlayStation 4... I simply want to play games and that's probably the extent of me using my PlayStation 4.

I'm sure the OS feature on the Xbox One is amazing but even if I owned and Xbox One I'm not entirely sure what something like that would do for me considering I spend the absolute majority of the time with my gaming platforms actually just gaming.

Both companies have their reasons for how they're implementing it and I believe both companies are Justified for their own purposes.

Microsoft wants it to be something that naturally upgrades games in regards to Performance similar to the PC..

Sony doesn't believe the adoption rate is there to pass that cost on to the consumer and feels it would be easier to have Developers patch features they wish to upgrade.

I understand the person that you're responding to is a crazy fan boy but please don't join him , this isn't really a right or wrong or smart or dumb, it's just that both companies have different viewpoints in different ways of implementing 4K..

On a technical sense it may be smart for Microsoft to create the Scorpio this way but it's also going to be costly on the consumer.

I understand that Sony wants to have the pro at a very user-friendly price but its design is also going to leave some games without that 4K support.

Both have positives and negatives in some respects.

[IamTylerDurden1]

Yea, bc Microsoft is just known for incredible hardware and decades of electronics excellence...The wizards at ms did popularize the power brick. To get mad at someone mentioning Sony in a MS article is foolish. Take a look at Sony articles, ppl like Moldy, Darth, and Neonridr are almost always first.

[mozzie]

@IamTylerDurden1 they also got rid of the power brick again with the xbox one s. the way I see it MS are the only ones which said classic CPU/GPU is not what we need for hololens and developed their own holographic processor. even PSVR is thetered and needs cables wraped around your head in order to function. believe what you want but I'm going to buy MS stock.

[Obscure_Observer]

@mozzie

The Scorpio will have patches too. The console will boost image quality in games with dynamic resolution and framerates in games with unlocked framerates. But it will not automatically enhance games with high quality textures, complex light, shadows and particles effects.

[shiva1]

Microsoft can do that even.... But sony would get pissed as playstation consoles would become irrelevant just like your post. On the other hand still waiting if sony can do any such sort of wizardy thing...

[IamTylerDurden1]

To be fair, when you hear the term "technical wizardry" Naughty Dog does come to mind.

[gangsta_red]

Actually to be fair, it doesn't.

[Razzer]

Well...yeah. They are not switching architectures this time. Scorpio is basically the same thing as upgrading CPU/GPU/Memory in a PC. So of course it will be BC with X1.

[NapalmSanctuary]

Hes talking about 360 games on Scorpio.

[JackBNimble]

Well one would think that 360 games that are bc to xbox1 would have bc to scorpio, just seems logical to me.

[NapalmSanctuary]

@JackNimble Read the article, its only 5 sentences. Hes referring to the fact that Xbone uses technical wizardry (emulation) to run a limited number of 360 games. Hes saying that the Scorpio runs all 360 games, an ability that is inherent to the design of the system, not something that has to be crowbarred in after the fact.

[Ju]

Not quite. I'm pretty sure this thing won't have ESRam. Curious how they'll guarantee that all games will run. Just taking a blind shot or running QA verification on the whole XBO library.

[mozzie]

Why do you think it won't have ESRAM? Scorpio has even a bigger bandwith than the xbox one. I'm pretty sure it will have ESRAM. Every game runs basically in it's own OS. All Scorpio has to do is probably have ESRAM and the ability to run a VM. Think about it, they upgraded from Windows 8 to Windows 10 with the NXOE with even launch games like RYSE ord DR3 still playing without any problems. So if Phil Says he doesn't want to go through 360 BC again, they will probably use ESRAM.
https://www.engadget.com/20...

[Ju]

Would be very surprising if they will do it again - if they have a chance to create a clean cut next generation and redesign. With 300GB bandwidth (or whatever) in a GDDR configuration it shouldn't really matter, really.

But the point is, they will have the exact same thing what Sony has. A backwards compatibility mode and an enhanced mode with all bells and whistles. Some older games will probably scale better - but XBO 1080 games will not magically run 4K if the dev doesn't patch it in. Nor will those games scale automatically - unless they are written that way already today. Sony's strict HW compatibility is a bit, aeh, backwards. But they could rethink that strategy also...

I think there's nothing wrong with what MS is trying to do. I might as well get me my first XBox if this is priced well.

[andrewsquall]

Err yes they are. Scorpio is literally using completely different GDDR5 next gen architecture over Xbone's 2004 ddr3 one.

[gangsta_red]

"“We’ve very specifically designed it [on Scorpio] so Xbox games just run,” he said, referring to both Xbox 360 and Xbox One titles."

Good to see MS won't try and gauge you on re-selling 360 games on the new system.

[jholden3249]

I like my PS4 Pro, but I almost feel like Sony jump the gun, cause Scorpio's gonna be a monster.

That's OK though because I was itching for some 4K gaming right now. The Pro provides me with that, and I can just get the higher tier console next year.

[_-EDMIX-_]

Not necessarily.

Technically speaking Sony was designing the PlayStation Pro before Microsoft was designing Scorpio. The objective is still to make money and this is still a business and I feel many people seem to disregard that. I don't think Sony is worried about Microsoft upgrade simply because people primarily care about the software they are playing on the hardware , before the hardware.

What does it matter if they have a more powerful upgrade if they still have the same questionable first party? PlayStation 2 generation had that system out selling its competition in absolutely ridiculous numbers despite other platforms being much more powerful not even as upgrades but as base units with games being created from the ground up, titles like Half-Life 2 and doom 3.

So the way I see it is these upgrades do not pose much of a threat to Sony. If Microsoft is going to continue to actually not have compelling software to drive anyone to purchase the platform, how many people do you seriously think are waiting in line to play a game on Xbox One simply because of the resolution? If that's the case why don't they already own a PC?

People do not want the PlayStation 4 Pro simply because of the power they want it because of titles like Horizon and days gone , that will get improvements because of the machine, it has everything to do with software that is coming out in the future that is driving the sales of that Hardware.

If Xbox One is losing, Scorpio is not really going to change that people are not buying Xbox one in the same rate as their buying PlayStation 4 for the same exact reason that they won't purchase Scorpio.

[Obscure_Observer]

@_-EDMIX-_

"Technically speaking Sony was designing the PlayStation Pro before Microsoft was designing Scorpio."

You don´t know about that. Spencer was the first to talk about a new upgraded Xbox system before the NEO´s documents leaks.

"I don't think Sony is worried about Microsoft upgrade simply because people primarily care about the software they are playing on the hardware , before the hardware."

The Nintendo Wii says hi. ;) There´s not a simple formula to determine what console will succeed what console is goin to fail. Both Ps3 and Xbox 360 with all of its exclusives and GTA V leg behind the Wii all gen even before the Wii was dead! FACT!

"If Microsoft is going to continue to actually not have compelling software to drive anyone to purchase the platform, how many people do you seriously think are waiting in line to play a game on Xbox One simply because of the resolution? If that's the case why don't they already own a PC?"

I´m not sure about what you mean by "compelling software"? ALL consoles have something for everyone so "compelling" is a subjetive matter. IMO Racing, FPS and Multiplayer fans will get the best on X1 exclusives. RPG, Story driven games and Single Player fans will get the best on the Ps4 exclusives. I own both, so i´m good. ;) About the Xbox and PC thing, had you guys didn´t learn nothing from all the doom and gloom fail episode where some of you foretold the end of the Xbox One console due the Play Anywhere feature? How´s things turn out so far? No so well for them, i guess? Realize this: THE MAJORITY OF CONSOLE GAMERS SIMPLY DON´T CARE ABOUT PC GAMMING! ;)

"People do not want the PlayStation 4 Pro simply because of the power they want it because of titles like Horizon and days gone , that will get improvements because of the machine, it has everything to do with software that is coming out in the future that is driving the sales of that Hardware."

The Ps4Pro has yet to prove if it has appeal to the masses. Right now, we don´t know if only the diehard Ps fans are making the jump. Aside for a very few games, i don´t see reason to sell my OG Ps4 to get a Pro. I´ll wait till more games get quality patches. Patches which actually showcase the power of the Pro. If Scorpio fails to impress with its 6TF power, i´ll do the same and stick with my X1till things get better.

"If Xbox One is losing, Scorpio is not really going to change that people are not buying Xbox one in the same rate as their buying PlayStation 4 for the same exact reason that they won't purchase Scorpio."

No offence but you sound like Patcher. You don´t know what drives people´s desires and i think you just made a foolish statement like you could prevent the future. You just set yourself up for dissapointment. Only a year till Scorpio drops. Time will tell. ;)

[_-EDMIX-_]

@obscure,- based on the amount of time that would actually take to produce a platform like that I actually don't think it was just quickly done after Phil Spencer brought it up.

To my understanding Sony actually confirmed that they were working on this since they launched the PlayStation 4... it's actually why it released first in the first place.

The Wii is irrelevant to that actual point... why would you use a gimmick as your example? People are not purchasing PlayStation 4 or Xbox One for gimmicks...

So in the respect of that it means that they are purchasing it for most to play a specific piece of software I have no clue why you brought up the Wii despite very well knowing that it did not fit the scenario were talking about neither of these platforms is being purchased simply because of the novelty of the hardware itself , you're buying it because there's something you want to play even if you're playing in 4k you still actually have to want the game first and foremost.

A bad game is still going to be a bad game in 4k.

I mean compelling software enough to actually have them selling better worldwide...

I agree that all consoles have their own piece of software that defines them but I'm not describing this in the respect of anything personal or subjective I'm merely saying that they do not have the numbers to support the concept.

That said it has nothing to do with anything personal and I seriously have no clue why you decided to aim it towards that despite us simply talking about sales lol

Of course I don't know what's going to drive every last person's desire to purchase that's impossible and it was never what I stated it was never my aim in the first place...

What I am stating is that statistically speaking based on numbers one platform is performing better despite both of them having a list of very much the same features which means that the only thing that really sets them apart is actually their exclusive software.

So when I say Microsoft needs more compelling software I'm simply saying they clearly need software that's going to have them selling worldwide equivalent to the PlayStation 4 that isn't subjective that is objective that is a fact that they are not selling as well.

[susanto1228]

Well I'm getting it can't wait.

[paddy95]

Sony should be taking note.

[Ju]

Because?

[Obscure_Observer]

@Ju

Probably because BC on Ps4 would be nice? :)

[Ju]

There will never be a (feasible) PS3 emulation. People, just get this out of your system, the rest runs just fine on the Pro

[_-EDMIX-_]

Maybe lol.

Possibly for the PlayStation 5 but I actually believe both the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox next or as I've been calling it Xbox Two will probably have native backwards compatibility because I believe it's likely they're going to use x86 or an architecture that is easily backwards compatible native.

But I do not believe that you're seeing this because Sony is not listening , You're simply seeing this because the cell architecture is something that's extremely difficult to emulate and it probably cost more money to attempt such a thing that will probably actually be worth.

The 360 is designed on the other hand was actually very simple and user-friendly is very easy to emulate and work with and clearly with the Xbox Scorpio very easy to have now have run native. If anything Microsoft was very forward-thinking in regards to their architecture design as they've always been. Like since the very first Xbox

[Obscure_Observer]

@_-EDMIX-_

"Possibly for the PlayStation 5 but I actually believe both the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox next or as I've been calling it Xbox Two will probably have native backwards compatibility because I believe it's likely they're going to use x86 or an architecture that is easily backwards compatible native."

As long Sony continues to support the PS Now, i think BC feature on any PS platform to be highly unlikely.

"The 360 is designed on the other hand was actually very simple and user-friendly is very easy to emulate"

I´m sorry, but that´s BS and A Flattout Lie! Despise the numbers of cores both Cell and Xenon processors are based on IBM PowerPC instruction set architecture. And yes it´s VERY DIFFICULT. Even Sony praised MS at the reveal of X1 BC stating they had no idea how MS managed to achieve it.

Words from Mr. Yoshida himself:

"It was surprising, I didn't think it was possible. There must be lots of engineering effort. They talked about 100 games, but what kind of games will be included? Is it smaller games or big games? We don't know."
http://www.cinemablend.com/...

"The technology involved must be very challenging."
http://www.gamespot.com/art...

[BLKxSEPTEMBER]

I cannot wait for the Scorpio! I got my pro now I just need my Scorpio. Oh and a Switch.

[DivineAssault]

Thats great news.. I might buy the scorpio.. The xb1 s ill pass on..

[Bolts]

Oh be quite, Im trying to enjoy my PS Pro. All this noise from MS is a huge distraction.

[NatFanBoyRestricted]

Do you even have a PRO? Who would have time to run through and troll xbox articles if they just got a PRO? Oh yes, someone probably not satisfied by their purchase?

[christocolus]

Lmao XD. So true.

[Bolts]

I'm a gamer not a blind fanboy. If the Scorpio lives up to the hype then of course I'm interested. The Pro is great but the limitations are so obvious, yet it deserves a chance.

[DarkZane]

“We’ve very specifically designed it [on Scorpio] so Xbox games just run,” he said, referring to both Xbox 360 and Xbox One titles."

So you're gonna do like Sony did when they put the PS2 architecture in the first PS3s and do the same thing, put the 360 architecture in the Scorpio. So it's gonna be a premium product like they said and super expensive, which means it's dead on arrival.

[mozzie]

Dude, really? The Xbox One already runs 360 games, even if it was complicated for MS to achieve that. Xbox 360 games will run as Xbox One games on Scorpio. And because of xbox One's three OS design Xbox One games can easily be run on Scorpio.MS ended production of the 360 a few months ago. Do you have any idea what it would cost to setup shop again and start producing old parts? That's one thing and the other is that it wouldn't make any sense since they already pulled it off and 360 games ARE running on xbox one. in just one year they've brought over 250 xbox 360 games to xbox one.they have invested too much in the current solution to drop it and start something new.
xbox one and scorpio will be one Xbox Family so how would they maintain Xbox One back compat if they switch to legacy hardware in Scorpio? anyway, mimmicking hardware is sonys thing, like shutting of half of the PS4's GPU power to tell a standard PS4 game that it's a original PS4 not a Pro.

[Jon_Targaryen]

If Scorpio can do native BC I'll lose my mind.

[filchron]

I Wish Nintendo went with a BEAST of a console so that we could have got an NX Mario title with this type of Fidelity http://www.hanging-waters.c...
I dont really enjoy the Xbox IPs anymore because its mostly corporate backed shooters but im hoping this beast of a console attracts more developers to create a wider assortment of genres on the platform like the OG Xbox had at launch. One of the awesomest launch lineups of any system ever, and from a newcomer no less (also Sega's games helped a ton). Only having 4K Gears and Forza aint all that exciting to me personally.

[Melankolis]

If it's true then the magic is not the 6 TF hardware, it's the software, the OS. That's what they're good at. Maybe MS should license OS specifically for console/gaming device compatible with PC Parts. So we can see console products from Samsung, Panasonic, Sharp, LG, ASUS, etc.

[radiantmind13]

I'm afraid that the Scorpio will be like Ps4pro. More powerful yes but unless you have a 4k tv the bump in gfx won't be that big. I know the Pro is still new, and optimizing by devs will get better, but the messaging from both Sony and MS seem to be inline with that. Both clearly state it is a 4k console and all games are basically current gen with higher resolution. Some Devs may use the extra power to increase fidelity of the 'standard' version but no guarantee they will.
Everyone is all getting caught up in the tflop wars but 4.8tf vs 6tf is the same margin, % wise as vanilla Xb1 to PS4. But in the end it is still an Xb1 and a PS4.
Let the disagrees comence.

[Chris12]

First of all, there will be a lot more 4K TV's in the wild in a years time. Prices have tumbled and will continue to do so.

Second, you need to stop all the percentage nonsense, it's a false statistic. If I offered you 30% of £100 or 30% of £10,000, which one would you take? But they're both 30% right?

You wouldn't get disagrees if you actually had a sensible point.

[radiantmind13]

Thats great that there will be more 4k tv but that still doesn't address the fact that w/out a 4k tv the advantages of buying the new consoles are not that great. If anything the consoles are pushing for the sale of new TV's not the other way around. I already have both base models and a 1080p TV. Not getting a 4k TV anytime soon or later for that matter. Without the 4k, there just isn't a big enough incentive to drop a big wad of cash on a redundant system.

As for your anology, you missed my point. Im talking about power discrepency between the updated consoles. If you had 10, 000£ and I only 30% less than you I would still have nice chunk of change. Im not comparing old to new. Just like how Xb1 does solid 900p to PS4's 1080p, Scorpio will do native 4k, while PS4p will do checkerboard. In the end they will both look nearly identical w/out a side by side comparison.

[Obscure_Observer]

@radiantmind13

What i want for the PS4pro is the same i want for Scorpio: FRAMERATE OVER RESOLUTION.

I Want 1080p 60fps for both Horizon: ZD and God of War on PS4pro and i want Forza Horizon 3 1440p 60fps and The Witcher 3 1080p 60fps on Scorpio. And personally? I don´t think i asking too much. ;)

[radiantmind13]

I totally agree. Hopefully the developers take advantage of that and start to utilize the extra power so we can have those options. As of right now though the only game that really takes advantage of it on Ps4p is Tomb Raider. (I know I know, it just came out) We have a year to see what the dev's do on Ps4p, and should give us a better idea of what to expect. Hopefully there is enough incentive on there part to do it. When the consoles were first announced I had high hopes they would, but so far I am underwhelmed. We shall see.

[Obscure_Observer]

I´m glad to tell you Sucker Punch did an awesome job with both Infamous SS and FL. ;)

I´m also looking foward for the Ps4pro version of Ni-oh with more custom options including framerate as well. :)

[objdadon]

I don't buy new systems to play old games, I'm good.

[Obscure_Observer]

@objdadon

So we don´t have to see you in another Scorpio topic? Sounds good to me. ;)

[Edito]

Good to hear, good to Microsoft and Xbox followers i hope they deliver :-) maybe, just maybe i will Buy a Xbox, but i want to see the games, if they want scorpio to succeed they should equally focus on building strong 1st Party Studios... I was always a Playstation gamer mainly because they always deliver on the software side of things... Halo, Gears and Forza won't hold forever...

[Obscure_Observer]

@Edito

They been delivering new IPs and exclusives. Thing is, most ps fans only distract themselfs looking at Xbox One´s blockbusters. This year fanboys just ignored QB, Ori and Recore to focus on Forza Horizon 3 and Gears 4. Next year Xbox One will see the release of Ashen, Cuphead, Sea of Thieves and Scalebound and i swear, fanboys (both sides) will ignore MS efforts on this and focus on Scorpio´s Forza Motorsport 7 and starting a war over FM7 vs GT Sport. Its sad but true.

[Edito]

@Obscure

You are partially right most of PS fans don't look at the entire Xbox library seriously and i personally look but simple don't feel connected the only exclusive i really like is Halo and i remember till today the very first time i player Halo, 4 players split screen back in the day i said to my self this is something really special but something happened and i just don't feel that with the new Xbox games, but i'm planning to give Xbox Scorpio a try if the price fits my pocket.

[redrum06]

Really looking forward to this! There are still a lot of 360-titles I want to play.
I was considering to upgrade my PS4 to the Pro version, but I rather wait for the Scorpio now.

Could this mean they would stop adding BC titles for XB1 (eventually)?

[Pooker100]

I would much rather have a Scorpio than a Pro.

[hiawa23]

Got my Pro, loving that, and can't wait for the Scorpio. I get to play all my existing X1 and 360 BC games, better, no extra cost. Good job, MS.

[andrewsquall]

Unlike how impossible it was for Xbone at the console's reveal.

[Auron]

I bet the scorpio is the xbox one that Phil wanted to make from the beginning.. now that he runs the show he gets to make it a reality! With that said..
You suck Don Mattrick we will never forget how you nearly destroyed the xbox brand!