With the announcement that the Playstation 3 version of Bioshock kicks off with a 5gb mandatory install, the question now has to be raised, Will these mandatory installs on the Playstation 3 become a problem?
Are PC game installs a problem?
Optional= Framerate/Texture Loading Problems. Optional WILL become MANDATORY, hence the reason for the 160GB. BTW, I have NO problem w/ installs @ all. Infact I kinda like them, I relax a smoke some "Fantasy Herb Pipe" LOL
Installs for consoles are still such a new concept. I think that's what the flap is over. It's really only an issue because to have more than 6 or 7 games installed you have to upgrade your hard drive. Which is something else console gamers have never had to do. Doesn't bother me all that much. If I get low on space I just delete something. I don't keep my life stored on my console's hard drive.
What up Re-Burn, haven`t seen/read/heard/you get my point.....in a while. Welcome back.
same thing can be true for the computer No matter how large a HDD you have if you don't delete/uninstall stuff it will be filled up, console, PC, mac..it is always the truth.. The only way to solve it is to DELETE/Uninstall what you don't need or to upgrade the HDD, same for consoles, PC, Mac...etc. Why would it be a problem when this "so-called" problem existed since we started using a computer 10+ years ago..I think back then computers were having like couple mbs storage space
For some it seems they are. For me no big deal. Play and delete it's quite simple. If you can't find something to do for the 10 or 20 minutes it takes to install then there is something wrong. I mean really. Read the instruction booklet or some news or something.
the fact that you can easily install any 2.5" HDD or delete files you don't need. NO.
People may b*tch and complain about it now, but once they see the benefits that installs bring to the overall gaming experience they will start to understand (at least I hope they will. Towards installs on the PS3 they probably won't) Doesn't anyone remember the slight backlash gamers had towards consoles like the Sega 32x and the PSX when CD-based software was taking over cartridges. Gamers all complained about loading times and how stupid and annoying it was, but now we have all seen the momentous leap in software quality that has occurred thanks to the CD/DVD software evolution that occurred in the late 90's and early 2000's. The next step in software evolution is just getting started; Blu-Ray
Highhhhh Definition. Hahahaaaha. Bubbles for liking the same fantasy as me!
I will never understand why people care about installs. If you seriously mind waiting ten minutes to be able to play a game for hours and hours, you are seriously a fool. You have the worst kind of brain-disease and you should probably be more concerned with that than any install times. If the space is really an issue, then delete something.. You aren't going to play all of your games simultaneously, are you? These articles and the people that actually think installs are a problem, are such a waste of space. If you are worried about installing things, welcome back to 1990. I hope you enjoy your Commander Keen cuz that's all you're getting.
They are an Inconvenience not a problem. Its like ordering a pizza sure its the tastiest food on the planet but you must wait for delivery.
"If the space is really an issue, then delete something.." So what you are saying is...I should be forced to delete pictures and music off my hard drive so I can install a game or are you saying I should delete previous installs on my hard drive so that I can play a new game...and then when I want to go back to the other game sit and wait for the install all over again? Installs can become a problem if developers get out of control with it.....I mean, especially if the ps3 is looking to last 10 years.....think about it..7+ years worth of installs? I rather just change out a disc....all the reason why I disc changer in the next generation would be welcomed.
You must have games that you have beaten thoroughly and probably won't go back to either at all or for quite some time, at which time if you really want to, can reinstall. I'm not saying you will never need a new harddrive, I just don't think people need every last thing that they keep on their harddrives. The solution is relatively cheap in comparison to competition and also is exactly the same solution for your pc. Granted, the laptop harddrives are a little more expensive than their full-sized PC counterparts, but still something that is easy and will last you quite some time. I have 8 disc-based games, 4 PSN games (one being the Socom Beta) and some demos and still have 50/80 GBs free. Now I'm not picking you out in particular, because I agree with you as well. I don't mind it being disc-reading or installing, my main concern is the quality of what I'm getting. I don't think all games should have mandatory installs, because frankly, not all games are worth it. But I wouldn't want quality to suffer based on whether or not a game is installed. At the same time, you are free to use an external harddrive or upgrade any time you see fit, for a reasonable price. PS. I would never (unless they became nearly flawless) want a disc-changer in any of my consoles. Moving parts have a higher tendency to break and I don't mind swapping discs. Maybe if they included the ability to change the disc-drive when necessary, then I would go for it.
Goodness, that's alot of sandwiches. Either way, much like backward compatibility, I don't think Sony fans will be bothered by it.
I was not necessarily speaking for myself......cause I still have plenty of room on my hard drive......well on my ps3 drive that is. When I think about my 360 though, a lot of data is taking up by game saves and xbla titles. Now if I think about the ps3, if I began to download a lot of psn titles over the years and include that with other things I truly want to keep.....then I can see it becoming a problem. And in all honesty, there really is no set pattern in which I play games....at any time I might decide to revisit a game. I just do not want developers to get sloppy and begin to abuse this ability. I guess that is what I am saying...it has the potential to be a problem, if left unchecked.....even if at minimal level it is a problem with convenience.
oh yeah IDemonstalker, Pizza may be the tastiest snack on the planet, but you don't have to wait for it. It's Not Delivery, It's Digiorno!!! That is proof right there that xbox 360 is superior with its no mandatory installs......LOL! Just Kidding Just Kidding! I'm just joshing you man! Digiorno sucks harder than Chris Crocker too.
so far. OPTIONAL - GOOD. MANDORITY - EVIL. I always prefered console over PC, and one of reasons was: you just insert disc and PLAY, that is what consoles about. =) I don`t mind 1-2 min. INSTALLs between chapters or etc., because during that time my EYES can REST. I wish developers would have this in mind.
Yea, I pretty much agree with you there. I don't think we really thought too differently about it in the first place. Edit: The hell? Did I lose a bubble during this discussion? That's lame..
And a big one at that. Games are not installed on the PS3 because the HDD is such a big advantage as they are on the PC (even though it is in comparison to the blu-ray drive). But rather because they are trying to mask the weakness of the blu-ray disc drive's slow transfer rates. Believe you me, if the blu-ray disc wasnt so slow, they would not be doing this. Im sorry but this is a disgrace! Sony has fvck up on to many fronts this generation. Luckily for them they are clawing their way out of it and MS seems to be asleep at the wheel lately, lol. Now disagree away b!tches
Yeah...it sounds like we were on similar pages; I failed to be more specific in the beginning while making my point. I do not know why you lost a bubble...but I will bubble you up. Edit: You are back up to eight.
Yes sir indeed. lol I guess I did get it back. If it was from you, thank you. If from someone else, thanks as well. Bubbles for you too ~
That article was really a waste. rant till the end then all of a sudden it went off topic. "What we have to remember is in this day, No console is perfect and if you feel strongly about the negative aspects of your console then the only way to truly win is to own both consoles". What the hell.. what was the point then beetching about the installs.....?
Not as long as the PS3 allows u to upgrade ur HDD
It's a developer thing. If Sony makes a rule that Installs should never pass 1GB, developers will be forced to do so.
Uncharted. 1) No install 2) One load 3) No MAJOR issues 4) One amazing game
the most talented developer when it comes to the technical aspect of things on the Playstation consoles. They stream the data permanently,that's why you don't have the loading screens. They did this for the first time in Jak and Daxter 1 (Their Masterpiece according to me). If any studio out there had the same people working for it, you would see even better games on the PS3 very quickly. (Not to mention they are they lead the Edge tools project)
Yep. Naughty Dog always had that streaming trick back from the Crash Games since Crash 2 and it continued into the Jaks to Uncharted No idea how they do it and Insomniac usually has some type of animation, like when Spyro flew and the score was counted up or a space ship traveling in Ratchet and Clank games to make the loading screen look visually appealing.
IMO I wouldn't have mind a one-time install for Uncharted seeing as how the whole game streams afterwards. Cause after each level loading, you guys gotta admit there's a ton of texture pop-ins when you first start. Sometimes those textures take as long as 10-12 seconds before it pops in. Granted, once they are in they look great. But a small install could have made it immaculate in that area.
I`m I the ONLY one who hasn`t seen texture loading in Uncharted, everytime someones says that it baffles me.
I've only seen pop-up in Uncharted, about three times. Sure pop-up's not always welcome, but when you can get a game with no load times, high quality textures, and no install(s), you have to question the games that have not-as-good textures, load times, and (an) install(s). Naughty Dog made a game without installs and high quality textures, and they've probably stuck the technique in the Edge Tools. Insomniac has the Nocturnal Project as well. This can contribute to games with no installs possibly, but I'm afraid that some companies are too proud to say, "Look, I need some help".
HD, I'm in chapter 19 on crushing getting my last few trophies. I, like you, have never seen textures pop in.
Ok I`m not crazy. Uncharted FTW.
quite frequently in uncharted. Usually only at the start of a level, when entering a new area, or after a cutscene. Only once did it last for about 6-7 seconds, but usually only for 2 seconds. Once it loads you do see the best graphics on a console to date, but I do wish they could have prevented it totally.
Playstation 3's and Pc's are built completly different, infact 360 is more like the PC's architecture than the Ps3. Plus this article is more about Why there are installs and how it can be solved than bashing the installs themselves.
gone to debate this every time a ps3 game comes out with a install. So to answer your question again NO, the price for a new hdd for the ps3 is cheap and easy to install.
Only a problem for idiots who don't know how to count!!! Common your replace game loads with new games as you get them !
"With the announcement that the Playstation 3 version of Bioshock kicks off with a 5gb mandatory install, the question now has to be raised, Will these mandatory installs on the Playstation 3 become a problem? "First we have to ask the question, why do we need all these big mandatory installs on Playstation 3 games when the Xbox 360 does so well without them? That I believe is down to bluray, sure bluray has tons of capacity but the disc reads at an overall slower speed than DVD9, Therefore it is either have more load times in your games, or install data to your Hard Disk Drive to eliminate load times and make the game run more smoothly." "Bourne Conspiracy Includes a Manadory Install on the Playstation 3 In conclusion I feel this loading issue could also be the cause of many Playstation 3 games being at 30fp and at low resolutions, and although mandatory installs can correct this issue, it is not a solution that can continue to be a growing trend if Sony wishes their platform to last ten years. If a game like Bourne Conspiracy can run on the Xbox 360 without an install then how does that look for Playstation 3? " interesting but, ps3 can do 1080p, 720p, 30, and 60 fps, so i don't think blu ray has anything to do with that. i think it's just effecting loading times. (my opinion)
GT5p ran at 1080p and 60fps, and only had an optional install. So it *could* be only related to loading times.
well a majority of developers have already talked about reasons for mandatory installation, and it is pointing to loading times. many reviewers have stated in the reviews of a few selected titles that mandatory installation aids in faster loading times.
I don't see why they should have to make them mandatory if their only for loading times though, it doesn't matter to me because I would be installing the game regardless.
Ratchet and clank Future runs in 1280x704 resolution @ a locked 60fps with NO install. So frame rate or resolution has jack crap to do with disc speed.
"I don't see why they should have to make them mandatory if their only for loading times though, it doesn't matter to me because I would be installing the game regardless." hmmmm well first off, when that "FALL UPDATE" comes to XBL, i will will be using my HDD for all of my games, so yes, REGARDLESS of the option of having installing i would install it anyways. most of the stuff i read off of various pages, they talk about why ps3 needs the HDD and at the same time 360 doesn't require it, as a 360 owner i would still do it even though it's not necessary, and if it wasn't mandatory for ps3 games, ps3 gamers will still use the HDD anyways. "So frame rate or resolution has jack crap to do with disc speed." yeah i fvcking said that already.
Well in order for a PS3 game to reach its full protential it NEEDS installs. Look at MGS4, the best PS3 game out and it requires five 2-3min installs for each act AND still has multiple load screens This trend will likely continue as game graphics advance so will the size and amount of installs required Killzone 2 will likely set a new benchmark for the amount of installs required for a game
Uncharted No install No loading times "Best looking console game so far this gen"-IGN GT5p 1080p 60fps Optional install
Probably not. I don't know if you've played Killzone 1 (I didn't really like it) but it was technically amazing for being on the PS2 and pretty damn fast at loading. I'll actually be VERY suprised if Killzone2 has a large install, I actually expect it to be almost on par with the speedy almost non-existent load times of Uncharted.
OWNED! Move along nothing to see here.
The developers in an interview said they loaded whole levels onto the disc so there won't be any loading times. It will be interesting to see if it really requires an install or not.
The reason Uncharted has so little load times is because its a very linear game with quite small environments. Also the lack of load times created a colossal amount of screen tearing @ 5.2 That was with the PS2 which had a DVD drive not a bluray drive. Bluray means longer load times and mantaory installs and Killzone 2 will have one its almost certain
Do you have proof about how bluray is slower than DVD? And the ps2 had a 4x DVD drive which is slow as S***
Yes. But notice that Naughty Dog have been avoiding load times all the way back to Crash Bandicoot 2 which was on a CD-ROM and continued with the large open world Jak series without ONE loading screen on a DVD in 3 whole games. If its all about streaming, I see no reason why Killzone2 can't do it too, since Guerrilla's last Killzone engine pretty much ran on the fly despite me not actually liking the game itself. EDIT: Also while I'm at it...'small environments?' did you ever play all of the early chapters of Uncharted when you had to run across a whole jungle from the U-Boat backtracking the whole journey?
Uncharted's small environments indeed /sarcasm http://www.vgblogger.com/wp... http://files.playstatic.com... Stop Omega4.
Far enough there is a chance Killzone may not need an install but most high profile PS3 games require an install especially exclusives, even Bioshock a year old game needs a install. And i'll say again MGS4 needed 5 installs which i think is just pure crazyiness So the chances are K2 will need an install since this isnt the PS2 or Naughty Dog we're talking about Edit: i have played uncharted and the only time the environmemts are 'slightly' large is during the platforming parts where there are no enemies
There aren't many(if any) 1st party titles that require installs EDIT How did I get any disagrees on my above comment? I asked a question then stated a fact. I will now answer the question and say that there is NO proof of this, I actually have proof otherwise. http://www.gamespot.com/pag... That should explain enough
Why does Bioshock also need an install on PC then? See, this is what I don't get. How people can complain about installs of games when the PCs have been doing it for years, I don't know. There isn't a game on the PC that you can shove the disc in and play it straight away with non-existent load times and the same back with the Amiga, so I don't see the big fuss about it. About MGS4, I don't know how that all works out, but I can only assume that's to make most of the cinematics to stream properly. But I still hear many people in the press and public saying its the best looking console game at the moment, so maybe those installs made the game work to its full potential, besides; Konami isn't a first party. I'm not really a fan of MGS anyway. EDIT: Omega4, I don't know how big you expect games to be. The areas in Uncharted are huge for a linear adventure game and don't just have set pathways, but patches of areas instead. Taking the boat upstream is pretty huge as you have you go area to area to make gates. Besides, is the God of War series known for having huge areas? No, they are small areas that are well designed and have gameplay. mechanics around the room to make the areas 'seem' bigger in size. EDIT2: You seriously CAN'T say that Uncharted has small environments, I mean, you can't at all. I can't figure out how you can proclaim they ARE. There's no gap between running through a jungle shooting like mad, a collapsing tomb, climbing up a cliff to get inside a U-boat and all the way back. Don't be suprised if Killzone2 actually doesn't have a mandatory install. That's all I'm saying. If it does, its probably due to the cinematics and to stream the soundtrack easier due to the overload of busy stuff going on the levels streamed from the disc.
Omega, you're so full of it it's ridiculous. http://i5.photobucket.com/a... http://www.videogamesblogge... http://img.gamespot.com/gam...
Data Transfer rates: PS3 has 2x Blu ray drive= Blu-ray 2x: 72Mbp / 8MBps Reads at a constant speed of 8MBps anywhere on the disc Xbox 360 has 12x DVD: 66 - 132Mbps / 8.2 - 16.5MBps Reads faster on the outside of the disc and slower on the inside. If a disc is full it will reach max speed. A dvd at max reads faster. So if a disc is full its going to read faster then a blu ray when reading the outer disc. If its half full it will read at about the same speed. Then there is also compression to look at because data is alot of times on dvd in need of uncompression while theres no need for that on blu ray due to the large capacity. I would say the main reason for MGS4 having those installs inbetween acts is due to the differences of types of gameplay. Like shooting on the back of a Motorbike for part of one act, in another act for a part there is Hand 2 Hand, Fighting in Metal Gears etc. Just guessing. From looking back it seems like this... It was made in acts because you got different elements of gameplay in various acts plus the normal combat in each. Then you have interactice cutscenes in each act as well. It may have been possible to do it all with one install. Yet probably far easier to just treat it as they where all seperate games so required an install inbetween at various points. An Epic game anyway you slice it. When looking at MGS4 your looking at one of the best games ever made. @ Omega4 "Well in order for a PS3 game to reach its full protential it NEEDS installs." No kidding ...any console ,pc game reaches its full potential when utilizing the HDD. Stop hating on KZ2 just because its shown itself to likely be the greatest looking FPS to grace a console.
Some of the 1st party games which require installs: Eye of Judgement 1.9GB Heavenly Sword 2.1GB Ratchet & Clank Future 0.42GB Resistance: Fall of Man 0.22GB Hot Shots Golf 5 3.6gb Not sure if these count: Gran Turismo 5: Prologue [Required] = 5.235GB Warhawk w/ boosters [Required] = 1.098GB There are likely more but thats all i could find for now, but the 3rd party list is much MUCH more extensive @VF34EJ25 Why are you just giving links to random screens which prove nothing, infact the first shows a linear pathway, if anything your reinforceing what i said about the small environments @Cajun Chicken Im not saying anything is wrong with small environments im just saying that the only reason Uncharted has no loading or installs is because of the smaller environments. Killzone 2 enviroments look at a lot bigger than uncharted that why i think it will have an install
Your a loser you know that. Is it your life mission to talk bad about the PS3.
Omega4 is a one man army. Be careful man, sony fans get pissed when they see an article like this. But your doing a good job on pwning these kids.
Did you really care that MGS4 installed multiple times? All it did was give me enough time to mutter "Holy Sh#t that was awesome", grab a drink and get started on the next chapter. MGS4 could come out and kick me in the junk in between chapters and it would STILL be worth it. If it makes devs comfortable to throw installs in there to make their best product, then I say go for it!
@omega. do your research buddy. none of those titles you listed were first party. the closest you came was 2nd party. @skadoosh. I agree. he is pwning us / end sarcasm. Trolls ;)
"Some of the 1st party games which require installs: Eye of Judgement 1.9GB Heavenly Sword 2.1GB Ratchet & Clank Future 0.42GB Resistance: Fall of Man 0.22GB Hot Shots Golf 5 3.6gb" - Omega4 The only games that requires an install is Hot Shots Golf 5 and it's manditory. I just hope you're not confusing actually instals with the network topology. Some of what you comment on is true and false. Like for example you said Uncharted: Drake's Fortune is very linear, linear is linear. A vast majority of first person shooters are linear, you don't get a game like Far Cry 2 too often. lol I'm really late to respond too.
PS3 installs are mostly a problem for people who don't own a ps3.
You know, I've noticed that
I find them pretty annoying to be quite honest. I understand that some games should deserve installs because they might be pretty slow, but games like Bioshock? A game that came out last year ago needs a whooping 5Gb installation? :/ Ludicrous
True. But I just find myself deleting and backing up data I don't need, much like when I used to game on the PC a lot. I'm not playing those games all the time and I find myself deleting the optional UTIII installation files a lot. Its really no biggie for me, except from waiting a few minutes to play the game. I still get to keep my save data, just not the game data. I personally find its far better than the 20 minute to 45 minutes installs of PC games I was used to.
If installing games gives you problems, you need to play in traffic more often
I dont see this being a problem unless you own about 50 games and all of them have those 3gb parts installed.. But ofcourse you dont play all the games in 1 day, do you ??? You must have some games that you have finished in 100%, delete the old mandatory install and allow space for a newer game. What the fuk is the problem with people these days ??? Fuking dikheads always trying to find a hole in the PS3. But sry motherfukers there isnt even 1, fuking p.ussies.
You dont even need to delete old game saves and files. For less then 120$ you can get a 320GB HDD.Problem solved. Besides..i dont mind a 5 minutes install to cut loading times.And eliminate pop ins and slow downs.