New 360 Games Copied to HDD Won't Load Much Faster

With the new Fall Update for the Xbox 360, that is most likely slated for November, you gain the possibility to play any Xbox 360 game from your local hard drive. "Not only will the drive not spin, but load times are quicker, as well," promised Microsoft's Major Nelson. But will that really reduce load times noticably? Xbox Product Manager Germany Boris Schneider-Johne states in a utmost interesting interview with Golem.de that this won't be the case for the majority of 360 games.

[tocrazed4you]

Sucks I guess.... The game should always be loaded faster and have better quality in AA plus Framerate.

[Stryfeno2]

I disagree

[InfiniteUnfloppery]

This is the Flopbox we're talking about,the Toaster isn't known for providing a Smooth Gaming experience.

[Tweeperz]

its an outdated toaster :'(

[Spread Butt Cheeks]

This website was brought to you buy Microsoft's ASP .NET and SQL Server. Every time you visit this site you are supporting Microsoft :) :)

See how all of these webpages end with ".aspx"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[Dyingduck]

Flop once again

[ps3killin360]

Blu-ray (BD) is a next-generation media format that delivers the ultimate high-definition* entertainment experience. Just like the DVD format offered a technological leap over CDs, Blu-ray Disc is the next leap forward in the natural advancement of data storage and digital entertainment.

Facts about Blu-ray Disc:

* Blu-ray Disc is supported by the Blu-ray Association and it has a broader industry support than any disc format ever launched
* The format offers more than five times the storage capacity of traditional DVDs and can hold up to 25GB on a single-layer disc and 50GB on a dual-layer disc
* Pristine picture quality with the capability for full high-definition resolution up to1080p
* Blu-ray Disc recordable formats offer unsurpassed storage capacity to store your digital world (photographs, home videos, music libraries, and data)
* Blu-ray Disc gives consumers a smooth way to transition to high-definition by protecting their DVD investments; Blu-ray Disc players are compatible with DVD so existing DVD collections can be enjoyed on Blu-ray hardware

[Aquanox]

This will never see an end.

The difference will not be noticeable in most games because the vast majority already load very fast. In other words, you will barely ever need to install game to reduce load times. Only those with really heavy content will be benefit from this, i.e. Mass Effect (2), Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fable 2, etc... (mostly RPGs)

For the rest, their load perfectly on the original DVD.

On the other hand, the problem with the Playstation 3 is that developers have found that the Blu-ray is too slow even for regular games like DMC4 (2xBlu-ray < 12X DVD) so they had to make a mandatory installation to get through it.

This is why the installations on the Xbox 360 are optional, whereas they are forced on the PS3. Even more, you can install all the games you want in the 360... though not necessary.

That's the summary of all this talk. Please avoid reading generic and fanboyish comments like the one above.

[Pain]

XBOX 2 was never DESIGNED to do such a thing just a software patch so its no brainer.

[White-Sharingan]

whats the point of them then? wtf?

[BoBo33]

To extend the life of your drive.

[TOSgamer]

I'd rather extend the life of my hard drive. You know the thing that holds all the important data.

[Fox01]

if downloading the game to your hard drive doesn't make it faster, it fills up your hard-drive and you still have to leave the DVD in the drive for authentification, why bother at all??

[Megatron08]

what the point of having mandatory installs for the ps3 only to have it load at the same speed as 360 version or at best 1/10 of a sec faster ?

plus the source for this is from Germany given that MS is based in the USA I'll take Major Nalson word over his

[barom]

Load times for PS3 games with mandatory installs is actually often only half that of 360 or less.

[sack_boi]

"MUCH FASTER". so it'll still load faster.

Recent games are already optimzed, their load times are piratically inexistant (1-5 sec). It'll will help older ones or RPGs as someone said. I can see Fable 2 taking advantage of this... I'm still looking foward to this.

[hfaze]

Well, for legitimate users... I would say that there's not much of an advantage...

But considering that Microsoft is using the DVD disc to validate that you have the game, I'm willing to bet that it will not take long for a DVD drive custom firmware to fake out the validation process...

If so, then I may not sell my 360 after all... ;-)

[thewhoopimen]

I am thinking the hard disk advantage is dependent upon the file size of the game. Most 360 games won't load faster because they are designed to fit and stream off a DVD. I can 100% guarantee for example that Final Fantasy XIII will load ALOT faster when installed on a HD then swapping and streaming 6-7 discs.

[deeznuts]

well will it stop the DVD drive from spinning? Because my brand new elite sounds like an unbalanced dvd player to explode!

[AAACE5]

Some people are just stupid!

OK, After you load the game to a HDD, you will need the disc in the tray so the 360 has proof that you have the game. It spins as proof to activate the stored info, and then stops. Then you are basically playing from the HDD while saving your disc drive from additional wear and tear (Which is a major reason alot of consoles in the past gave out).

The ideal HDD to have for this is the 120gb.

And you can tell alot of people didn't read the article and just wanted to say something bad about it!

[ReBurn]

@gamersday08

The difference is that on the 360 you actually have a choice. If people were forced to install on the 360 like they are on the PS3 then you would have a valid point.

@barom

The PS3's load times with installs are not really faster than the 360's without installs, and it certainly isn't half the time for PS3. GTA IV and SC IV are perfect examples of that. The load times between 360 and PS3 are virtually the same, with maybe 1-2 seconds faster on the PS3 in some spots. But not significantly faster to justify the install sizes and times. The optional SC IV install shores up the PS3 version's performance, but all it does is bring the load times into line with the 360 version. There are still times when you wait 15-20 seconds in story mode for the game to load, even after install.

If you want an example of why the PS3 needs installs look at Motorstorm. That game has the most frustrating load times of any game I've played this generation. It literally takes 10-15 seconds to load each vehicle on the vehicle select screen, then it takes forever to load the actual race.

[JoySticksFTW]

The installs help. I only own a PS3, but have friends with 360's. The two games that really stood out with significantly less load times on PS3 due to the installs were SCIV (about 30 seconds less) and Oblivion (which was minutes more on the 360 when your inventory grew large, maybe because the 360 version had to load in the inventory?)

Either way, even Game Informer commented on the SCIV difference in load times when comparing 360 v PS3 (although the admitted that the load times, were not a deal-breaker. They only suggested getting the PS3 version because of the better D-pad)

[Perjoss]

"whats the point of them?"

well if you use dvd drive less it will last longer, somepeople already complaining that thier drive is crapping out, lets face it the 360 is not the most robust console ever made, if you can even out the work load between the dvd and the hard drive it will help alot.

[KRUSSIDULL]

I can see Oblivion, Mass Effect, Fable 2, GTA4 and many other games run much smoother with the game installed on the HDD.

[Montrealien]

well the fact that the speed of the 360's drive makes for games loading just as fast as PS3 "installed" games, this does make sense imho. I'm sure some games will have improved loading speed, even though we are used to quick loading on the 360 already, at least compared to non installed PS3 games.

[Darkiewonder]

It's a game of Roulette. spin the drive to install the game. if it dies you're screwed. If not, then you have another day to install another game.

I'll stick to keeping the drive spinning then.

[xhairs9]

ooooooooooo burn.

[potenquatro]

that's for every gamer to ask themself that. it's optional,so if you don't like it or don't find a reason for it, you don't have to install and just play it from the disc. IT'S AN OPTIONAL INSTALL FEATURE just like the ps3...oh wait. I like it cause of no switching discs on multiple disc games. not that I mind but i'm lazy.

[chaosatom]

..

[himdeel]

...a much smoother transition as oppose to switching DVDs. As long as you don't need to change from disc 1 to 2 when playing parts of a game from disc two. I think it's a nice option nothing more nothing less.

[pixelsword]

...the 360 may will be decompressing texture files to the drive perhaps, trading quality for load time... which will lessen the need for multiple discs, perhaps?

[Darkiewonder]

Pointless feature then?

Thanks Microsoft.

[wicked]

It was done because people complain about the noise of the DVD drive spinning, and not to improve load times. So if you don't have a problem with the noise or have a newer model with a quieter DVD drive then don't use the feature and save the HDD space.

[Tarasque]

It was not done cause of the DVD drive being loud and it is not pointless, to many close minded people focusing on loading times and it is not because of that either. It can keep from having to stream compressed texture off the disk. This way you can stream uncompressed textures from the harddrive.

@gamersday08, There is a difference between optional install's and mandatory 20 min install's, big difference there bud. You have a choice unlike the latter.

[Killjoy3000]

BOBO

GOT

F#CKING

PWN3D

[Stryfeno2]

"We now allow the customer to install games on their hard drive. This is optional, you don't have to do it"....Well we you heard it here first folks...Optional installs. For all you droids that can't read english I got that covered.

Spanish Droids
Ahora permitimos que el cliente instale juegos en su impulsión dura. ESTO ES OPCIONAL, usted don' t tiene que hacerlo

Japanese Droids
私達は今顧客がハード・ドライブにゲームを取付けることを許可 する。 これは任意、である; tはそれをしなければならない

Russian Droids
Мы теперь позволяем клиенту установить игры на их жесткий диск. Это опционно, вы don' t должен сделать его

Greek Droids
Επιτρέπουμε τώρα στον πελάτη για να εγκαταστήσουμε τα παιχνίδια στο σκληρό δίσκο τους. Αυτό είναι προαιρετικό, εσείς don' το τ πρέπει να το κάνει

Korean Droids
우리는 지금 고객이 그들의 하드드라이브에 게임을 설치하는 것을 허용한다. 이것은 선택적, 당신 don'이다; t는 그것을 해야 한다

German Droids
Wir erlauben jetzt dem Kunden, Spiele auf ihr Festplattenlaufwerk anzubringen. Dieses ist, Sie don' wahlweise freigestellt; t müssen es tun

[pwnsause]

1. that was the worst spanish ever

2. GTAIV on the PS3 loads faster than the 360 version because of HDD installs

3.the RROD console is currently getting its *ss whooped by the PS3 for the last 9 months.

Edit:

4. That was also the worst Japanese ever.

[juuken]

He used babelfish. >.>

[cemelc]

Dude you're trashing spanish.

Perfect your English first and then start learning spanish.

Even if he is using a translator :"usted don' t tiene que hacerlo " learn how to use the program first

[Shadow Man]

Orale homes no le etiendo ni madre guey. Usa mejor Freetraslation . com

Latino Heat! Viva La Raza I lie, I cheat, I steal... mamasita I have the passion.

[TheColbertinator]

Callanse lo sico todos ustedes.

[Dyingduck]

FOR what purpose? So it won't scratch your face I mean disc??

You get NADA out of installing on HDD unlike the PS3's faster loading time and smoother frame-rate...failed

[karlostomy]

@patch

Obwohl Wir im grossen und ganzen gleiche Meinung haben, ist deine Deutsche Uebersetzung mangelhaft!

Better stick to English, before the grammar Police shows up.
lol

oh wait

[TheMurderer]

The beauty of the 360 OPTIONAL installs means that it will give gamers the options to decrease load times (especially on older games, which SOME PEOPLE still play), and reduce issues like pop-in. GTA IV will probably run just as good on the 360 now.
Also, the 360 versions of games are optimized to their best so that they have shorter load times without having to install. This is just an extra push for it. The PS3 versions with mandatory installs are programmed with the idea of installs from the BEGINNING, meaning less choices for the gamer and more reliance on having HD space just to play the game. It's almost becoming a handicap. At least 360 gamers have a choice.

[Shane Kim]

the murderer

What choice? Half of the xflop league don't even have hard drives.

[Shepherd 214]

1. Actually pwnsause according to the NPD sales, the 360 outsold the ps3 in May by 900 units, and im sure thats not the only time since then thats happened, so no, not 9 months, sorry.
2. Even then, the 360 was launched a full year before the PS3 and has been in the lead for a year and a half in software and hardware sales, not to mention the are over 12 million subcribers to xbox live(service you pay for), far more than that of PSN(free).

[BIoodmask]

"There are prominent examples, for instance: Project Gotham Racing 3, one of the first games for the Xbox 360. There the load times have been very long; those are going to get reduced immensely. Recent games are already optimized; there the gain is relatively small."

All he says is that older games will benefit more from installs because they are less optimized thus having longer load times than newer titles. So in newer games the install gains will obviously be less and less noticable. Which is actually a good thing because that means that newer games are seeing shorter load times to begin with.

Common sense would tell you that games streaming off the HDD is faster than disk read speed.

[BoBo33]

What's it like having a PS3 that loads so slow that installs are MANDATORY?

[Blademask]

I had to buy a HDD to play it online. Wait well no, I didn't feel that bad. Because then I felt ripped off that I had to spend 120 dollars on top of my live account on top of the 60 bucks for the actual game. Then I wanted to play it wifi, but yea another 90 dollars there..

So compared to that and Oblivion? I doesn't feel that bad. Like do you mean the physical FEELING I had when I had to get up and swap out discs when I was playing Lost Odyssey? Like that was a feeling. The feeling of me getting up, walking to my media closet.. and replacing discs like it was 1995.

When I want to play games on my PC, I have to install them. I don't mind though because like the PS3, I have 320gigs of space to use for installs. Much like the fall update will do for the 360, allow HDD installs that I'll probably use.

Kinda like the way UT3 came with the option to install. And other titles.

But Most gamers from PC backgrounds are used to installing, I can go and get a quick bj or hj while its installing, and then when I come back the load times are less.

In the case of second to none titles like Uncharted though, with jaw dropping visuals that are the best looking out--according to gametrailers, It has no install. The entire game streams. But I guess that goes against your slow loading logic? Same with GTA4's loading times too right?

MGS4 though, although its AAA and also second to none when it comes to everything according to folks at ign, its apparently a perfect game-- had mandatory installs that I didn't like. But when the game offers you a gaming experience that you cant get anywhere except on the ps3, well. You have to take the good with the bad. I'm sure more games like Uncharted will be developed in the future seeing as how we are only into the second year of the PS3. Where as the 360 is maxed out and releasing flops like Too Human\LOstOdyssey\all the JRPG's, without optional or mandatory installs. Too Human though streams, but its still a flop.

Its a hard choice though seriously. I ask myself what would I rather be doing? Playing amazing games after installs, or playing "damn another xbox360 game flopped but im going to pretend its good and buy it anyway, but man its like every release of 08 has flopped.. when is halo4 coming out..." I think I'll take the installs. I take em on my PC, I take em on my ps3, and I'll take them when Online games require HDD's plus spending $100 just to do so..

So yeah, does that answer your question? Or was I supposed to pretend that installing things is an antiquated process, like swapping discs or waiting for your 9th failed 360 to be mailed back to you?

As bloodmask said:

"Common sense would tell you that games streaming off the HDD is faster than disk read speed."

So maybe you should think before you waste my time again.

[badz149]

but it's funny to see blademask reply to bloodmask and then they argued with each other! how cute...because I always kinda thought the 2 of you are actually brothers!

[solidsnakus]

WTF.......????

Blademask
"I can go and give a quick bj or hj while its installing"
.....:O

[ice_prophecy]

lol snake. read again.

[zo6_lover27]

"What's it like having a PS3 that loads so slow that installs are MANDATORY?"

That's not the point of mandatory installs, a game plays smother from the HDD. There are more reasons but I can't gather my thoughts ATM.

There are games on the ps3 that only use the HDD for load times, on these games you have OPTIONAL installs.
Examples of such games are GT5p and Soul Caliber 4

Developers have pushed for mandatory installs on the 360 because it will allow them to do much more with the game.

[solidsnakus]

the ps3 NEEDs hdd installs cause the blue ray player is only 2x speed. withought it its just really slow to read all that from disk alone. see , and people said the arcade unit was a bad thing. MS outsmarted sony and made full HDD game installs so now no more spin noise and faster load times. and its completely optional.

on a side note, im actually glad MS isnt realeasing games over live like sony is. downloading games over the network is just a big ass ripoff cause you cant trade them in.

[sack_boi]

why are people complaing? Optional HDD install is still a good thing, no matter how you spin that. It's !optional!

[theEnemy]

MGS4 uses a dual-layered Blu-Ray Disc (50GB)

I guess you just copy-pasted your reply w/o editing it.

Oh btw, Halo 3 is already released.

Good thing there are sites like that so that those ignorant fanboys will be enlightened that the speed of a blu-ray drive is different from the speed of a dvd drive.

2x speed of a blu-ray drive =/= 2x speed of a dvd drive.

[thewhoopimen]

Well here is food for thought. Assuming that a 2x bluray has about the same streaming rate as a 12x dvd drive, would the MB/s speed be fast enough to stream 25-50GB bluray disc vs. a 4.7-9.4GB DVD?

[The Lazy One]

Yea... and when I needed a fork to eat with I went straight to boston store and buy a gold plated flatware set.

Obviously if you take the most expensive route with the highest cost options it's going to cost you more. Don't blame M$ because you're dumb.

[juuken]

...Uh...what the hell are they doing?
What's the use of this feature then?

[Stryfeno2]

Didn't you read the article?

He said, early games like PGR3, you will notice a difference but for recent games you will have a relatively small notice because the game is already optimized.

[Silogon]

So, older, obsolete, games that no one plays will be better??? This feature, like it or not, is useless and unwanted. No one is going to ook at this as a selling point for the system and if you do then that just means you're one of the naysayers saying Ps3's "manditory" installs don't mean jac.

Wake up, this feature isn't as golden as it was touted as being by you all.

[juuken]

Um...Patchstation, I did read the article...?

I mean, what's the sense of having this feature if new games don't load faster?

Microsoft has been making a lot of questionable decisions as of late. :/

[Stryfeno2]

Are you slow?

Ok let me break it down....In newer games you will see a relativly small difference because the game are already OPTIMIZED to load fast.

So let say GTA 4 take 5 second to load...Installing it might reduce it to 4.5 of a second.

Why have that feature you ask? Because of games that comes in mutiple disk. You can install all the disk and make the games run on only one DVD....Instead of switching DVDs.

[cemelc]

If i can load an entire disk in the xbox does that mean that games are going to come in 2 disc now? At least it means they are preparing for it, and if thats true a 20gb hardrive will not be enough, so basically be prepared for paying 140$ for 120gb.

[juuken]

...I would rather have something physical in my hands either way. This sounds a bit risky in my opinion.

And did I insult you? No. So stop implying that I'm slow when I *read* the article.

[Stryfeno2]

That slow comment was for Sillygon....You will have something physical still...So nothing won't change but the switching of DVDs.

Edit:@ zo6_lover27

"You have to have the disk in the drive to play the game off the HDD, you still have to switch disks"

Link please.

[zo6_lover27]

"Why have that feature you ask? Because of games that comes in mutiple disk. You can install all the disk and make the games run on only one DVD....Instead of switching DVDs."

You have to have the disk in the drive to play the game off the HDD, you still have to switch disks.

There is one purpose and one purpose only for these optional installs, loading times.

[marionz]

the point of this feature is to reduce wear and tear on the dvd drive DUH!

stupid question from a fanboy trying to cause a stir over one little feature

[ChefDejon]

its to help agaisnt RROD...

[InfiniteUnfloppery]

Another Failed Microsoft Feature Confirmed.

[TheMurderer]

It still helps. It's free. It's a choice, so it's not forced. How is this a failure?

[InfiniteUnfloppery]

It gives me much Joy and Pleasure to know that I possess a much Superior Gaming Machine.

[ace3081]

Games with short loads times will not benefit from the HD installs but games with long load times will. (ie: mass effect, project gothem racing 3). Rpg will see the biggest benefit, imo, due to the amount of data, but simple games like Viva Pinata will obvious not.

[Fox01]

Fable 2 has huge load times; so I it will benefit. good

[Shaka2K6]

Hahahahahaha xflop 360 games have abysmal load times, another reason to skip that XROD 3rd60 and buy a PS3 instead.

[InfiniteUnfloppery]

100% Accurate

[marionz]

its a shame you didnt skip being born you retard

[enjoi187]

load times are fine anyways.

[THE TERMINATOR]

Whats the point of installs if they dont actually enhance the gaming experience? U are just filling up your tiny xbox hardrive for no reason at all.

[joeynox]

Load times on the 360 are great the way they are.Thats why this is optional .I still think installs are tarded ps3 or 360 but having the option is nice.By installing on a harddrive ps3 or 360 your at most saving what 3-5 seconds.Big whoop.

[N4G Member]

The benefit i see coming from this is that scratched or cracked discs should not be a problem anymore since it is not reading the information off the disc but is just checking to see if the disc is in the tray.

That positive alone is good news. Load times have never been an issue to me.

[solidsnakus]

hmmm... i wonder if upgrading my hdd myself and putting a 7200 rpm drive will make a diffrence? cause the one in there is 5400.

however this still is an awesome update and with this the 360 will no longer sound like a jet at takeoff. lol jk (but not really)

[Charlie2688]

I think a lot of people are confusing the PS3s installs with the future 360s ones but they couldn't be more different, with almost completely different pros and cons

The PS3 installs are similar to what many PC games used to do were you installed specific parts of each individual game to maximize efficiency in specific parts per game while still reading from a disc based media

The 360s "installs" aren't really installs they what its called an ISO loader or Virtual Driver similar to what people do with Daemon Tools for the PC or the PS2s ISO loader (Europeans are probably very familiar with this one ;) ) which the exception that you would have the disc inside to verify its authenticity before running the Virtual Driver with the games ISO

Hopefully people will stop confusing them only to get "disappointed" with features the service wasn't suppose to do in the first place -_-

[jaja1434]

Maybe I am misreading, but I can't remember any game in the past 6 or 7 years for the PC that required the cd/dvd in the drive. Except of course to prove you actually own the game.

[Charlie2688]

That is why I used the "used to do" part :S

[Fishy Fingers]

Props to Charli, spot on as usual bro.

Regarding "Daemon Tools for the PC or the PS2s ISO loader" never heard of them ;) *looks left and right*

[jaja1434]

Ah gotch :)

[dkgshiz]

20gb hdd. So one game takes up probably about 6gbs. I guess its only 13gb hdd. So that means only one game could really be installed. Unless you buy the rip off 120gb.

[cemelc]

Why the hell is the damn thing needed anyway?

For older games? You mean the ones that everyone has on PC by now?"yay"

[GUNS N SWORDS]

fvck no, of cores not......does anyone know the reason why?

(joeynox) is actually closer than anyone here.

and strangely (BIoodmask) has a lot of disagrees and he's right "I recommend actually reading the article"

[thewhoopimen]

Are you his alter account? Seriously, there is nothing here that Joeynox said that explains the reason why.

[Tweeperz]

I 'cudn' have said it better myself!

[GUNS N SWORDS]

everyone here is thinking immaturely.

why do they say "New 360 Games Copied to HDD Won't Load Much Faster"

and why does this article say "BioShock PS3 has 5Gb, 10-minute mandatory install"

http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News...

the game's a port of the 360 version.

i like to speak to someone who can speak at my level.

[zo6_lover27]

It has better AA than the 360 version.

Anyways, if the installs were for loading times and loading times only every game on the ps3 would have optional installs.

[GUNS N SWORDS]

"It has better AA than the 360 version."

yes it will, but i could counter attack that with the 360 version of UT3 having better drawing distance.

http://images.eurogamer.net...

http://images.eurogamer.net...

the correct answer to both is the 7 to 9 months difference that they have.

edit- the textures of bioshock (ps3 version) BTW are identical to the 360 version so no upgrade was made there.

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/obje...

[Bladestar]

another attempt by the anti-xbox 360 losers to undermined the xbox 360... what he said was obviously taken out of context...

this is what he said, "Project Gotham Racing 3, one of the first games for the Xbox 360. There the load times have been very long; those are going to get reduced immensely. Recent games are already optimized; there the gain is relatively small. " isn't this obvious?

for example if a game loads in the background while the user is playing... how will loading benefit when no loading actually happens?

games optimized to load faster will obviously will not make much of a difference...

but one thing is certain... games will load a lot faster than otherwise and ohh yeah before I forget... no mandatory installs...

[Skadoosh]

Yeah I'm pretty sure about 99% of the sony fans that commented here didn't even read it.

[FantasyStar]

Up to this date, I haven't seen many PS3 games that require mandatory HDD Installs actually benefit by having less load times. Even MGS4 crumbles under the weight of load times, especially install times.

Sony has got to release some tools to make load times less. Take a ****ing page from the devs at Naughty Dog FFS! Just for my personal protest, I never buy "new" games that require mandatory load times (unless it's MGS4) because I don't approve of their methods. The same will go for R2 if they try the same thing. The only conceivable way I'll ever budge on this declaration is if there's physical evidence that the HDD installs actually go towards decreasing load-times, and I don't mean 2-5 seconds shaved off, I mean 5-10 seconds shaved off. I want my games to load within 2-3 seconds. If Uncharted can do it, I don't see why other games can't. Of course I'm realistic about my demands, so I'll tolerate 5 seconds at most. Anything more than 5 and I'm buying it pre-owned.

Call me what you want, but I follow the good saying of "speaking with your wallet." - Impress me Microsoft, I'm waiting for it.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

I think it's going to help with texture streaming. I am really curious to see how Mass Effect plays after doing the install because that is one of the games that the texture pop-in is blatent and annoying.

If it doesn't help then it seems like a waste and they should of been more clear from the beginning how much it will benefit games.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

yeah im playing Mass effect right now.These pop ins and slow downs are terrible.

Weren't you one of the many bashing PS3 because of the installs?
Yet because of those installs i cant think of a single PS3 game that has pop ins.Or rampant slow downs.

I find it ironic you're wishing for installs now.

[Strife Lives]

So I can play and make desisions in Mass Effect,and even hear the Normandy without the BBZZzZzZZZZZZZZ

[Tarasque]

Well either you play with the Xbox right next to you ear, or you play on top of it with no sound. I sit about 3 feet from mine and with my sound i can't hear anything from my 360.

[FantasyStar]

You've become "accustomed" - I play my 360 3 feet away too and I can hear the thing VERY CLEARLY. I have to turn up my volume just to drown the sound out.

[Re-versed]

There is no need to undermine 360....MS already undermined you the buyers of such a faulty console....GET yourshelf a next-gen system...T he times have change...the first year they underestimmate ps3...!now the things are a bit different...dont u agree?

[ReeBlock]

Well, if Microsoft didn't require the disc be in the drive then there would be no regulations on who would be getting free 360 games, I understand that. Other than expanding the life of the disc drive, I see no warranted reason to do this.

[retro]

Load times will be faster - even if only minimally faster.

Most important of all NO SPINNING (AND LOUD) DRIVE!!!!

[etownone]

This site is just turning to pure crap as everyday passes.

They keep putting and approving anything and everything negative-360 up on the front page, even stories like this that have a BULLSH!T title!!!

another example, the story of the kid that traded in his 360 to get a ps3 gets approved and has all the sony fans riled up, but then a follow up to the story gets posted yesterday saying the kid regrets trading in his 360 and it doesn't get apporved?!?

[rawd]

Yep

[TheMurderer]

I'm glad my older games will load faster, and at least it will still help my new games' load times somewhat, and even reduce pop in! Also, less of a chance of damage to the discs! This is good news.

[TheMART]

He doesn't say what the title states, qoute from this guy:

"for instance: Project Gotham Racing 3, one of the first games for the Xbox 360. There the load times have been very long; those are going to get reduced immensely. Recent games are already optimized; there the gain is relatively small."

It could also mean that with PGR3 it would be even more then 30% gain but with the newest games it would be less then 30%. But besides disc searching and access times, there is also the fact that a HDD can load the data faster into the RAM then a DVD player can.

Anyway: you're saving your DVD laser for sure, much less stress on it, so longer life for it. Always good.

[KingDizzi]

No wonder MS were not making a big deal out of these installs then, had it been any good they would be advertising it as though it was the second coming of Jesus.

[tudors]

Xbox-360 games have never had a load time problem, it already loads quick enough, for me the manin benefit is that it reduces noise and extends the life of the DVD drive.

Is that a bad thing? ofcourse not so stop whining, you know who you are.

[GarandShooter]

Never played Mass Effect, have you?

[plain rice]

Who gives a sh*t? It's optional. You choose the fate of your optical drive, that's all. If you ask me I love this feature regardless if it loads slightly faster or nothing at all.

[DevastationEve]

I think there may be some truth to it, but only for those of us who still have older model 360s. I bench marked one of them when I pulled it out and popped into my notebook's sata port. Mine was a Seagate, and it showed me that it had 2mb cache.

Burst Read: 40mb/s
Average Read: 8mb/s

So the hdd actually performs NEGLIGIBLY faster than the odd? And it's SATA??

When I found that out, I was like "Dude, I'm gettin you a new drive"!

[killcycle]

Xbox Fans were BASHING ps3 when they announced the option for the installs and now your all prasing miccrosoft.

Gamersday08 also said this ^^ and its funny how you all ignore the post with 0 replies and move on.

Freaking fan boy craps so annoying.

[Captain Tuttle]

The difference is the installs on the PS3 are mandatory and optional on the 360.

[Tarasque]

Go check again i replied.......Twice

[Lex Luthor]

For the love of God can you sony fanboys please read the article. This is being taken WAY out of context.

[GarandShooter]

It's only a response to 360 fanboys trying to put a negative spin on PS3 installs, because they've got nothing else to rag on. This and the RROD issue are the biggest flaming sources around. So why not throw fuel on the fire? A mandatory install takes less time than a mandatory RROD replacement. See, it's easy to flame. I welcome the installs. Remember failure of the ODD is not covered by the 3 year RROD warranty, so anything that helps lengthen the life is OK with me.

[Droid]

360 games already load faster than all installed PS3 games but without installs.

owned

[Captain Tuttle]

Don't bother loading games then. Problem solved.

[Cajun Chicken]

Right then; so say in the case of Crackdown, once copying files on HDD, it will load faster right? Because Crackdown certainly does have SOME loading screen ATM.

Also, anyone know if this will make EDF2017's enemies stream easier? because I can hear my DVD-Drive loading the next section of enemies up and freeze for about a second in a level, I swear. If this does happen EDF2017 has just gone to 11 in hectic.

[joeynox]

the article sums everything up perfectly,1st,2nd gen games will load faster and the newer games wont see a change in speed because the dvd drive is reading at its optimal speed.The ps3 need the installs on certain games because the drive is slightly slower and to keep a constantflow of data.This is no knock on the ps3 but i dont like installs on my consoles.For years of arguing pc vs consoles console installs will make the consoles lose 1 of their major advantages over pc's.But like I said earlier that the difference in load times is not that great of an improvement so i dont see it as a great feature for the xbox. My launch xbox loads /reads my discs perfectly fine in the verticle position and has never given me a problem. If people are getting scratched discs then mmaybe the surface they have the consoles on isnt level or that are tards and like to kick the console I dunno.
The only advantage installs do have is that now the disc drive wont sound like its about to take off for the moon, i dont understand why that drive is so loud when it starts to spin.

( Im just stating my opinion here so if anything I said is wrong well than I really dont care anyway :)

[THAMMER1]

The option to install is awesome. I wish I knew what SONY has indoctrinated you people with.

[Larry Fine]

WOW. I can remember when the 360 was like all that. I was even jumping in, but can any one tell me why does it feel like the 360 isn't even relevant anymore. All you here is PS3 and Wii especially PS3. I have to admit that I've been waiting for castle krashers for the longest time, and now that it's out I've been playing warhawk just for achievments 24-7. I think I'm a sony droid now.

[ceedubya9]

Because this title can be misleading if you take it a certain way. Its really simple to understand though.

If I game had really long load times before, they will be decreased significantly. But if a game already had short load times, then the end result will be small. New games these days aren't really problematic with the load times. So its understandable not see a significant difference by installing.

I'm definitely looking forward to how this cleans up pop-in and and stuttering on games like Lost Odyssey and Mass Effect. Load times didn't bother me as much as those things on these games.

[Decaystation 3]

Just here for the entertainment.
Jepp. A lot of mini-sized dronebrains in here bashing in a 360 thread.
Don't they have even one game they can play or watch or something, instead of being so interested in xbox?

[juuken]

Oh dear God...you bots are so desperate aren't you?
I knew it. Yet another account bashing the PS3.

BLUR111: What a dumbass bot. And you 360 fanboys don't do the exact same thing on PS3 threads?

Lol, and LBP is coming October 21st, 2008.

Idiot!

*dances*

The PS3 rocks.

[BLUR111]

Calling someone desperate there??! look who is allways in 360 articles! just go relax and W A i T and look forward to littlebigplanet in 2012... december 21. lol

Well juuken lets just hope it will be a success and live up to all the hype. who knows

but me myself won't be buying that teeny bobber crap.

[Omniphobe]

Umm just a lil insight here but could I have a link of two of those occurrences happening? Not to be offensive I'm just gathering some insight is all. No disagrees mate.

[dachiefsman]

the drive not spinning is a win for me since my DVD drive sounds like a Boeing 747 taking off.

[Cajun Chicken]

Accurate.

[m0sand]

Seems like a nice feature :)

Btw, does Sony require mandatory installs? I mean.. Does it say on a contract or anything that every game needs to have installs? ;S I'm confused since many of you said that. I thought it was up to the developers, maybe I'm wrong.. :) I also thought that maybe Uncharted ran fine without installs? Are the loading times huge in that game? I seem to have read somewhere that they actually stream pretty well off of the BR disc. Meh, maybe it was all a lie. Maybe the developers are optimizing the hell outta each game but SONY as the evil empire it is requires mandatory installs :) haha

[ceedubya9]

Its not that Sony makes developers do it, but developers do it in order to make sure the games run as smoothly as possible. All of the PS3 games don't require the install, but there are a lot that do and the number is growing. This isn't a major issue though, and the PS3 hdd is easily upgradeable.

Mandatory or not, it has its advantages. Games can run smoother and put less stress on other things in the console. Games like Uncharted that you mentioned are pretty seamless from level to level once you start playing the game. Not game changing in any way, but still nice nonetheless.

[FantasyStar]

I'd like it if Sony stealth-released a 4X BR-Drive in the new batch of PS3s.

[TheOtherGuy]

microsoft under deliver again :'(

[squall2099]

you all are living a lie with the ps3. it will not live to see its 10th year like the ps2, it's days are numbered. so what it has blucrap!, and sorry azz online and half ass home beta crap. xbox360 with the Relaunch(end of sept) will rain all over ps3 again this holiday season, ps3 has power but no brains. dont blame the developers for orange box sucking ass on ps3, blame SONY!!!!!. yea microsoft is money hungery(gamers pics, themes) but you know what???? they know how to get things done, not half azzing it to death. DEATH TO ALL PLAYSTATION 3 POTBOTS!!!

[KazumaKiryu]

You wont be saying that when your 360 RRODs.

[FantasyStar]

Developers use mandatory installs to meet the bare-minimum of loading times. I hardly see anything worthwhile in mandatory installs other than the obvious fact I have 5 less GBs. Like I said earlier, if you don't approve of lazy devs wasting GBs away on your PS3, don't buy your games new, buy them used. Nothing says FU more than lack of profits.

PS3 games need to be more like Uncharted, virtually ZERO loading screens and seamless transitions, all without eating up pointless GBs. Hell even if Uncharted used a mandatory HDD Install, it wouldn't bother me because unlike 90% of games (even MGS4), I actually see benefits out of the GBs being used up on my HDD towards a better gaming experience.

I believe as a consumer, I want the best for my PS3. If X devs can't give me what I want, I'll go to the Y dev that can give me what I want. It's called consumerism.

[GarandShooter]

Are devs that require installs on PCs lazy?

Do games exclusive to the 360 and PC, like Gears of War require an install on the PC? If so, what's the difference between the PC and the console? All PCs have an HDD, but not all 360s do, which tells me that if all 360s had HDDs, then they would also have mandatory installs. (In case anyone doesn't know, GeoW requires 12GB of harddrive space on the PC)

[FantasyStar]

Don't be stupid, PCs have been requiring installs since the inception of PC gaming. I don't argue with history.

If the 360 all had HDDs, you wouldn't see as many mandatory HDD installs because the 360 DVD Drive is significantly faster than the PS3 BR Drive. You can use facts all you want, but the games itself speak louder than anything you'll find on Wikipedia. Just look at every single multiplatform game and then look at how many times the PS3 version requires an HDD Install with little to zero improvements in load times. And then there's MGS4. I seriously doubt Kojima would cut corners on his game just for a 1-3 minute break between gametime.

All devs that force Mandatory HDD installs on the PS3 with no noticeable improvement for load times are considered "lazy" in my book(even Kojima). I know it's black-and-white reasoning, but you have to draw the line somewhere. And the root of it all is blaming both Sony and the devs equally. Sony should've released the PS3 with a 4x BR Drive and devs should start boning up on their coding skills for the disc itself. If Naughty Dog can do it, I don't see why others can't.

And if you want to know, MGS2: Substance, and GeoW loads probably 5x faster on my PC than the consoles would anytime. But I guess that's the beauty of having developers that put more effort into reducing load times and having a gaming-quality PC. When it truly comes to gaming, I care more about my money's worth than the developer's personal struggles. If I approve of their methods, I'll buy their games "new". Otherwise its Ebay and Craigslist for me. (**** Gamestop)

[GarandShooter]

Don't be stupid. Installs haven't been around since the inception of PC gaming, because not all older computers came equipped with hard drives. I played games directly from floppy disc, both 5 1/4" and 3 1/2" on an old Tandy computer. When all 360s have HDDs and the games routinely outsize DVD9 capacity, you will see plenty of mandatory installs.

By the way, how does an install or lack thereof, affect getting your money's worth? It has zero impact on the game experience.

[squall2099]

bring it on!!!!!!!, 360's REDring only when you play it 24/7. get a f8cking life and enjoy your self instead of playing cod4 online 24/7

[KazumaKiryu]

I have a life and it gives me lots of money which is why I have all of the consoles ;).

[asyouburn]

devs on ps3 require installs to make the game run smooth. if it had the exact same drive and archetecture as 360 i can understand everyone moaning and complaining, but the systems are so diff. whatever they gotta do to make it run good. if i had an option, personally i would install every time. msoft installs is an obvious attempt to curb disc read errors, instead of puttin devs on this install thing, they should work on a better dvd drive

[KazumaKiryu]

It may also be a way of decreasing the chance of RROD since there will be less heat being generated, maybe.

[villevalorox]

i see this update as a hackers paradise

[lewis]

hahahahahahahahahahah!!!

[smokeymicpot]

Then there has to be a reason for it. Some where down the line.

[air1]

i would love to know the age of the ppl in here cause damn. most are so frikin ignorant especialy the sony fanatics.

they just cant understand that YOU DO NOT HAVE TO INSTALL IT. this is old news now im not saying it shouldnt of had been posted cause its old but if you dont know what the install is for by now, you need to start getting real news from mags and places like 1up.com cause you kids are so brain washed and misinformed cause of this place.

even if you have a 20 gb hd you dont have to run out and buy another hdd like some other idiot said you would cause surpise you dont have to install it.

[rawd]

ZOMG awesome featuresss

[xg-ei8ht]

a 7200rpm drive has a few seconds load time shaved off over a 5400rpm.

But truthfully the throughput should be alot faster from just hd alone compared to dvd.

I have to wonder, with uncompressed textures and uncompressed sound on ps3, maybe that is the diff. BIOSHOCK anyone?

[kevnb]

its easy to replace a hdd, hard to replace a disc drive. It will be quiter, the hdd is much less likely to die, and the load times will be shorter (some games will benefit more than others).

[Bullseye]

Anyone who suggests that installing to Hdd is NOT a good idea,probably lack some technical knowledge imho. Not to disrespect anybody you understand,but basically given the choice,you should always choose an Hdd install-space permitting,of course.Realistically,there should be at least SOME speed improvement even with older games,but if future games are written to take advantage of this install procedure they should especially benefit.And even if you are not convinced on speed grounds there's the noise reduction factor. Either way,it's a good option to have.

[marichuu]

One of the main reasons to own a console is not to bother with installs and storage problems for games.

[Aft3rKill]

so basically Oblivion will get a boost while Gears 2 will remain relatively unnoticeable. I cab live with that and knowing that the devs have optimized, but now that they have this option will they?

[Tykis]

So wats the point of even bothering to copy games to HDD is this M$'s me too things?

[devilhunterx]

no no no M$, youre doing it wrong.

[marichuu]

FYI so does Sony... some games NEED to be installed in order to play. :p

In the other hand... load times never bothered me, I'm always at my PC while I play consoles, so always chatting with someone at the same time as playing.

[devilhunterx]

And I bet you spend more time on the pc then playing the game :)

You know, with all those load times

[marichuu]

Funny, but no :P
Actually I spend more time having the game on pause, so I wouldn't mind longer loading times at all :D

[SpartanZero]

lol at least i don't HAVE TO copy to the hard drive lol

[SpartanZero]

At least I could put the disc in and play it and not wait :p