Multiplayer games will not run at a faster frame rate on PS4 Pro

Multiplayer framerate performance across the PS4 base model, PS4 Slim, and PS4 Pro will be the same according to Christian Gyrling, lead programmer at Naughty Dog. PS4 Pro multiplayer visuals may be enhanced in other forms besides framerate. Single player games unaffected by this restriction.

[ninjazfistz]

Honestly I am proud of Sony for this. It really helps preserve the idea of what gaming on a console is. Buy a PS4 and it just plays online evenly against all other Playstation 4 units until the generation is over.

Playstation 4 and the WiiU might be the last generation of console offering a level playing field online. The Xbox seems to be making moves similar to PC, mobile, and Steam Machine gaming where the competitive experience can be influenced by having newer hardware.

[PlayableGamez-]

So whats the point of the PS4 pro if your not going to take advantage of the hardware?

[Randostar]

It said MP games. The new tomb raider game has three different Visual modes, so why wouldn't Sonys first party devs be doing the same thing?

[PlayableGamez-]

Well why MP games? Because of fairness? that is not a good reason...

[kraenk12]

It would be an unfair advantage. You're sad.

[S2Killinit]

@PlayableGamez
It will be the same with scorpio and any future console claiming to "share" one ecosystem with its predecessors.

Do you really wanna see a bunch of people running circles around you in Multiplayer because they see you before you even see them?

Fanboy much? or just stupid?

[BlackTar187]

PlayableGamez-4m ago
Well why MP games? Because of fairness? that is not a good reason...

^^^^^^^^^WHAT? Kidding?

[PlayableGamez-]

Why not allowed the gamers to make that decision?
You guys are just damage controlling at this point.. Excusing sony for making decisions for you... Why not sony implement a method for PS4 players to make a decision if they want to player with pro players instead of capping the pro players... Because it's not fair for the pro players... One ecosystem I agree with...but let the consumers choose their experience including in MP...

This is why PC is the best option..

[fr0sty]

Why not let the players choose whether or not they have an unfair advantage? Because it ruins the experience for the players who do not get to choose. Suddenly those who can't afford to fork out another $400 for the new system cannot win MP matches because half the people in the game are running the game at double the frame rate.

However, because the vast majority of online titles on PS4 run at 60fps when in MP, this is a non-issue.

[XtraTrstrL]

The whole idea of how the PS4 Pro is gonna operate, it wasn't gonna be fully taken advantage of in the first place. That's one thing that turned me off from it from the gate. It's just for better textures in some cases, higher resolution and hopefully higher/more steady fps. It's not gonna be for bigger/broader worlds with better AI/etc. The only way it could fully be taken advantage of, is if they end up having exclusives for it, where devs could dive in and push it to it's limits.

[LexHazard79]

Yes its multiplayer, they said no one will have a competitive edge over the other.

[PlayableGamez-]

Do you guys not hear whats coming out of your posts?.. You want lower frames because SONY says that you have to have lower frames... Nobody is truly balanced!! having higher frames will not make you a better player.. just more efficient... Just like the elite controller on the Xbox One...

[PlayableGamez-]

Look at you corporate slaves who want to fork out another 400 dollars for having the same experience...

You guys are the ones who are sad...

I am arguing for you to have a better expeirence and you guys are arguing against it? And I am the sad one!! HAHHAHA

[TheUndertaker85]

@fr0sty: Uncharted 4 doesn't even offer 60fps for multiplayer. Killzone Shadow Fall doesn't run at a locked 60. Battlefield titles don't hit 60. All signs point to Gran Turismo Sport not being locked to 60.

There are PLENTY of examples out there of games on PS4 not hitting or being locked to 60fps.

I swear every time I see a comment from you it's more misinformation.

Games on PC have allowed huge variances for some time now. TVs at the start of last gen didn't offer 60fps as a standard yet some people had 60+ while others were at 30.

[Aenea]

The framerate CAP can't be different. ie. they can't be capped at 30fps on the PS4 and at 60fps on the Pro for MP games.

But, it is of course perfectly fine when the same game suddenly runs in 1080p instead of 900p (like Battlefront or Battlefield 1) and never dips below 60fps while the PS4 version might have frame drops...

It might even be able to render at 1800p@60fps and upscale to 2160p so you have an even sharper image while still maintaining the same frame rate!

[fr0sty]

@undertaker, Uncharted 4 MP runs at 60fps 900p.

https://www.vg247.com/2015/...

As for KZSF, it was a launch title for crying out loud. I can forgive a few frames dropped in MP considering the rushed development cycle, etc. It hits 60fps most of the time. Not enough drops for me to cry about PS4 Pro not making them better. Besides, it was a mediocre game to begin with, and I don't bother playing it anymore.

[81BX]

@kraenk12
Whats sad is having this powerful machine that you paid for then limiting it because of a less powerful machine. Can any pc gamers tell me if this happens with pc mp? I get the idea of fairness but why pay for a stronger machine? To push single player?

[TheUndertaker85]

@Aenea: That is actually contradictory of what is stated in this story.

"But if you're playing multiplayer games, it will be the same playing field. Base PS4 users, PS4 Pro users, you're still running the same frame rate. Yes, you're running at a higher resolution, you might be seeing it in HDR, but overall it's a level playing field. We're not benefiting the PS4 Pro users and skewing the community."

Resolution may be different. FPS will be the same for multiplayer.

[StoneyYoshi]

@playablegamez
"Nobody is truly balanced!! having higher frames will not make you a better player.. just more efficient... Just like the elite controller on the Xbox One..."

You have a point. But if you don't understand how much of a difference doubling your frame rate in a multiplayer game doesn't make you better at it stop wasting your time debating about it on here. Saying higher frame rates only make you more efficient and not better is just asinine. Efficiency always leads to being better. I experienced this myself back when i was playing COD 4 on my parents PC back when i didn't have a PS3 yet. The PC had a shitty GPU in it and even on low the game ran around 30-40 fps. Then once i learned about all of the commands to change even more visual effects in the command prompt in game to help improve the games performance, i started running like 65-75 fps on average and after i made those changes there was a substantial difference in how i performed!

A more recent example would be on R6:siege i used to run the high res texture pack and my game was running locked at 30 fps maxed out. I turned that off and went to 80-90 fps on average and now once again there was a substantial difference on how i performed, and being quick with your shots is very important in that game.

ILL ALSO ADD THAT I HAVE ALL 4 SONY CONSOLES AND A GAMING PC so don't even bother calling me some PC elitist or anything like that. I love both platforms!

[Death]

Nerfing the Pro sounds idiotic. PC has been handling multiplayer long before consoles have and hardware has never been restricted to keep things "fair". Your internet speed, controller lag and screen lag play a much larger part and none of those are restricted. Why limit FPS for those that spend the money upgrading? It might be fair to PS4 gamers, but it's not fair to the ones buying new consoles.

As for the comparison to Scorpio, I hope Microsoft isn't as stupid. With cross play, console gamers already go up against PC gamers with more powerful systems and no restrictions. The last thing Scorpio players need is to be nerfed.

[Aenea]

@TheUndertaker85

Nope, it's exactly what I said! Can have higher resolutions!

Having less frame drops is not something they can do anything about, only happens when the PS4 can't keep up with everything that needs to be rendered, they are not going to add code to a game to emulate that behaviour, would be nonsense, in fact, would still not behave the same. So no (or less) frame drops is totally acceptable.

[slate91]

Majority of my gaming is online. If this restriction exists on scorpio then that will seriously make me second-guess getting it. This wont really effect me getting a psP because games with nice campaigns and story, things that sony is known for, wont be restricted.

[NotoriousWhiz]

I'm not mostly an online gamer, but I would like increased frame rate. Without that, there is no way I'm buying a P4P nor Scorpio. Personally, I'm content with the graphics as they are. Unless they have some unique gaming experiences, I'll just stick with my vanilla PS4 and vanilla X1.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

Higher frame rates, which let's be realistic about, it's sad that frame rate is even still a discussion in 2016, doesn't make you a better player. It just runs the game the way it should in the first place. This whole generation has been nothing but smoke and mirrors. Ironically with the way Sony and Microsoft have been trying to faux mirror PC gaming, it's pushing me further and further to going back to PC full time. The only good thing about this for me is the slim chance that there will be a closer look at frame rates overall, basic PS4 included.

[sAVAge_bEaST]

Exactly, Frame rate buff is totally unfair for MP. Draw Distance will be unfair though..

[yarbie1000]

This is so silly. That's the one feature i'd be interested in.

[TwoForce]

Then you want player to get beat down by high player ? Wow, you are very cocky.

[crazychris4124]

it's been like this for ages on PC and it isn't an issue. You have people that can barely play the game on low settings at 20-30fps and you have people playing at 1440p144fps or 4k60fps or even VR is some titles. Games play out just fine and besides Pro players have an advantage when playing 4K HDR since its easier to see enemies.

[ninjazfistz]

@crazychris4124

The whole concept of PC is freedom and no restrictions. Until New 3ds or Xbox One S we haven't seen online consoles feature upgraded performance. I agree with you however that there will still be an advantage but not a huge one (hdr, resolution, textures, etc.)

[PlayableGamez-]

@Crazychris4124 you are wrong about HDR... HDR increases input lag which puts you at a disadvantage...

[KwietStorm_BLM]

You've got to at least attempt to make sense if you're gonna argue his point.

[StoneyYoshi]

@playablegamez

If you think HDR really puts you at that much of a disadvantage then how come having a lower FPS compared to another player not come into effect like you were talking about earlier in the comments section? When your game runs at a lower frame rate if you compare physical actions compared to whats on screen in slow motion you can see that there is always a form of input lag the lower the FPS the more pronounced the input lag is. soooo basically what you are saying here now goes against what you were trying to prove earlier.

[ninjazfistz]

If you are okay with a mouse and keyboard for competing, I can easily recommend a high end PC. If not, maybe Xbox but I don't know for sure if they will allow framerate advantages per title or across the board. http://wccftech.com/xbox-sc...

[Sparta07]

Phil said the same thing about Scorpio.. No frame rate difference between Scorpio and Xbox .
Are you still disappointed?

[freshslicepizza]

did you say that was a great decision when they said it?

[FITgamer]

That's what PC is for.

[PhucSeeker]

Bloodborne 60fps is no more i guess. Shame! Until Dawn 30fps would be a good replacement for me tho.

[2pacalypsenow]

Good, makes it equal for everyone

[Eonjay]

Thank you. Its just that simple.

[Death]

Bullshit. Connection speeds are not the same for everyone. Don't tell me locking down framerate is the great equalizer.

[Redx165]

So a guy who bought the more powerful hardware deserves to have a lesser experience?

[Goldby]

Nobecause instead of the power being used to bump up the frames , it wpuld be used for other thibgs, resolution is just one of the options that would be available tocthem

[thana108]

If sony wanted that then why release the Pro? Ffs

[jobboy]

better framerate is not allowed, but a steadier or more consistent performance is it possible?

[Randostar]

More consistent frame rates will happen to all games that you play on the console. The gpu is twice as powerful, so games that are 60fpstill but have dips will run way more stable on the pro without a update.

[jobboy]

do you have a link? i honestly don't want to play a sub 60fps bf1

[Eonjay]

@jobboy if was stated several times and you can here it on won for the live chats from after the announcement on their youtube page

[Aenea]

Yes, that is of course going to happen, also higher resolutions and better AA and other effects...

[iTechHeads]

Better frame-rate IS allowed, in co-op or single-player games. Jus not in competitive games.
Considering competitive games are already 60FPS though, it doesn't matter. You can't go higher than 60FPS on console.

[PlayableGamez-]

Yet again Sony making decisions for the consumers...

[Gaming_Cousin]

Ummmm who else makes decisions for Playstation if it isn't Sony?

[LexHazard79]

According to some Playstation calls its own shots. So maybe Sony doesn't decide.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

I don't know, perhaps yourself? lol my god.. Are we meant to just take whatever these corporations feed us, no questions asked?

[BlackTar187]

lol at being so bad at MP you need a competitive advantage to win. I bet you have a device that let's you use Keyboard and Mouse on consoles and think you're actually good compared to players with controllers?

[PlayableGamez-]

Nobody is the same... Take in consideration input method, TV/Monitor and internet connection.. Nobody is balance...
It's all about skill...,

[Sparta07]

You do know that Microsoft is doing the same thing. No frame rate difference between Scorpio and Xbox . Just so you know.

[FITgamer]

Microsoft said they won't allow it either so...

[Germany7]

It doesn't concern you.

[Goldby]

So doea that mean you chose to name halo 5, quantum break and forza as the greatest games in the history of xbox? Cuz there has to be at least one game from 360 era thats better than Quantum Break. Alan Wake comes to mind

[AizenSosuke]

Ok

[sullynathan]

MP games are still aiming for 60fps which is good, as long as the pro can keep this then it would be good too.

[jsiddlehfx]

Hmm... sounds good. Question: Lets say a multiplayer game across all ps4 systems caps at 60fps, wouldn't the ps4 pro allow the system to maintain a "closer to cap" fps, rather than taking huge hits when lots of explosions go off?

[GameBoyColor]

In theory yes, the gpu is about 2x more powerful and the cpu is slightly overclocked to be able to pull off a little more performance as well. So it should perform better at the parts where a regular ps4 would have dips.

[iTechHeads]

Of course. Higher graphics and/or resolution as well.

[GreenUp]

Framerate stays the same but high resolutions don't matter. You'll be able to snipe from greater distances at 4k compared to 900p. Nice.

[kevnb]

:/
what kind of communist crap is this.

[jukins]

Hope they mean 30 vs 60 fps aND not keeping ps4pro owners at unstable framerates to match ps4 owners

[Aenea]

Yes, it's the 30 vs. 60 fps thing that is not allowed. More stable framerates are, higher (render) resolutions as well, better AA, shadows and other effects too...

[Artemidorus]

https://youtu.be/ctwqa3QCwM...

[PutridPlop]

Let the trolls loose!

[Redx165]

Then what's the point in buying a Pro?

[galmi]

Like everyone on this site will say, exclusives....I personally will upgrade when its s low as maybe 250$

[Redx165]

You can already play the exclusives on a regular PS4.

To be honest as a fellow PS4 owner the exclusives we've got have been very lackluster the past 3 years...

[iTechHeads]

There are no PS4 Pro exclusives. It's still a PS4, it plays PS4 games.
There are no "PS4 Pro" games.

[OtakuDJK1NG-Rory]

none. They just want to rake more money out of people

[iTechHeads]

4K HDR support.
Higher performance.
Higher frame-rate.
Better graphics.
1080p Remote Play.

If this doesn't appeal to you then this isn't for you. Move along.

[Redx165]

It isn't true 4k..
Higher performance depends on the developer and won't go towards online
Better graphics? lol a few better textures isn't worth $400
1080p remote play and that is if your internet can support it. Not everyone has great internet...

[Pandamobile]

That's really damn stupid.

[Big_Game_Hunters]

Weak, weak and pathetic - metalace.

[Tussin187]

I could have swore people were talking about this issue a month ago and were for this very idea ND is doing. Now all of a sudden it's bad. I confused.

[ALowlyRock]

I see the merit behind this decision, but it's not like people can't already get advantages over others with things like scuf controllers or just having a really good headset as opposed to someone with a crappy one or no headset at all. Sony should leave it to the devs to decide.

[akiraburn]

Agreed. The counter argument I would pose to those who feel that this would provide an unfair advantage, is that there are already many things that can provide advantages, some of which that could be potentially more significant (or considered unfair). Buying a higher-end router, having a better/closer internet provider, or purchasing a higher end bandwidth plan from your ISP are all factors that can give players a much more significant advantage than the framerate might.

And as you mentioned, there's the Scuf controllers, arcade fight sticks, proper wheel setups for racers, and all sorts of other controllers which can offer an advantage. There's also the potential for people to buy displays with lower latency and the ability to change the HDD in the PS4 to an SSD (potentially offering faster texture load times or less dropped frames on games that might require it). Even one of Sony's own additions in the PlayStation Pro offers a distinct advantage, which are the new controllers' USB mode, that Mark Cerny himself was touting as the best way to play fighting games since it offers a lower input delay.

And all of this is disregarding the simple fact that on PC, there is the potential for people to run up to 144fps, while others playing the same games are running sub-30fps, and at a whole myriad of resolutions and aspect ratios. There's always going to be variables that change the competitive nature of a game. While I understand that they want to avoid the original PS4 having a very significant disparity (such as framerate being reduced on titles that are already commonly at 60fps anyway, like Call of Duty), this approach also hurts the interest for the core crowd they are marketing the PlayStation Pro to. Titles like GTA V and Destiny would really shine if they were to receive a framerate increase, but as they have confirmed, that simply can't happen as long as they have this stance.

Even if the competitive discrepancy concern was the case, what about games that are solely (or primarily) co-op for their online component? How would having an increased framerate cause issue there? I feel that this (and the potential for higher framerate in general) is an issue which needs more consideration and to have a better detailed plan than just a flat, "nothing faster than the prior console unless it's single player" mandate. I do hope that this is revisited in the future.

[RegorL]

A game running at 60 Hz with drops down to 52 Hz will be 60 Hz in Pro... (as it will be more difficult to keep the drop)
A game running 900p might be running at 1080p

So I would expect BF1

PS4: 900p 55-60Hz
PS4 Pro: 1080p 60Hz

[iTechHeads]

Faster than 60FPS?
All multiplayer games already run at 60FPS.(most anyway)