Sudden Attack 2 – Female characters to be removed for inappropriate poses

Yesterday, the CEO of GameHi (or Nexon GT), developer of Sudden Attack 2, issued a letter of apology on the game website. Barely a week into launch, it seems the community has complained about the inappropriate poses and disturbing expressions 2 female characters, Miya and Ji-Yoon Kim, have exhibited in the Unreal Engine 3 online shooter.

[SaveFerris]

Seems like the fans of this game are quite sensitive but it is good that the developers are listening to the concerns of the community.

[Highlife]

Seems like free publicity for the game to me. Never heard of this game and probably wouldn't have.

[TheTwelve]

Exactly... @Highlife

[XanderZane]

I agree. Still have no interest in it. This is a "M-Mature" rated game I'm sure, so some of this stuff is to be expected.

[Erik7357]

Yea thats a positive way of looking at it I guess...

[goathouse774]

You're the worst.

[rainslacker]

Most of those picture's racyness seemed more due to a ragdoll physics model than actual poses for the game. Couple seemed like poses, but I doubt poses take place when your character is dead covered in blood on the ground, and some seemed more like purposeful camera angles. Facial expressions I suppose could get some people riled up, but people are too oversensitive.

So is this a large portion of their community, or just some random people tweeting out how bad it is for the children?

[TrollsBringer]

Good. The less shameful stuff in gaming, the better. Gamers should stop being horny all the time. It's not natural.

[Kyosuke_Sanada]

Wait what? Why? It's rag doll physics. To see a company go this far due to a few anomalies is ludicrous.

[AnotherProGamer]

Hey don't you know physics are sexist

[NecoTehSergal]

If Icecaps and Air conditioners can be sexist, so can physics. [/Feminism]

[Erik7357]

It's the slurtty costumes they are wearing that make the poses look inappropriate, he isn't gonna get rid of rag doll physics LOL

[PaleMoonDeath]

STOP CENSORING OUR GAMES!!

Edit: Anyone defending these censors is obviously part of this weird crap going on in America, SJW's are screwing with my entertainment. Our free speech and our bloody art and culture and even movies. This HAS to stop!!!

[senorfartcushion]

This isn't censoring. The government censors. This is the people who have BOUGHT THE GAME saying "stop being creepy."

[DragonKnight]

This IS censorship. Stop trying to push the narrative that only the government can censor, preventing anyone else that exerts pressure to gain control over expression from any culpability.

[ONESHOTV2]

SenorFartCushion------ dude i'm no child i dont need a company telling me what i can look at or what they call being healthy we are humans some people enjoy this type of entertainment on the same note some thing simple as rag doll physics should not be a problem look at skyrim it has great ragdoll when you mod it you can even take off the clothes off the dead why didnt any one attack it when they saw that i see things like SJW as a trend that needs to die off i dont give one crap about what you think is normal just leave the games alone stamp them with a rating system if it becomes a problem for the so called normal people. i think this is a good example https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[PaleMoonDeath]

Censoring our art, games, and free speech. This goverment is buggered. Trump 2016.

This has to stop. America is the damn land of freedom, it's influence on the world is unbelievable, stand up to these SJW's and freaks trying to censor us, I'm seeing this FAR to often now and it's genuinely pissing me off.

[S2Killinit]

@Twiggy
Trump is more concerned with not censoring racism. When it comes to games he will be screaming along with the rest of the conservatives about the evils of video games. That way their sponsors can shift the blame to some other industry while they arm the nation with machine guns and assault rifles.

[trooper_]

Censorship is getting out of hand.

[mopground]

i believe the soviets used the terms "do gooders" and "useful idiots"

[ShinRon]

Its not censoring when the customer base makes a request and a dev/pub responds
... its not much different than an buff or nerf.

As a long time Street Fighter player it does get awkward playing the game with my 13 year old in front of his mom when he uses Mika and i use Cammy.

And also, its some jigglyboobs and a crotch shot, if youre gonna fight censorship, make it be for a more noble cause.... like e3 booth girls.

[DragonKnight]

13 year old? Man you're too delicate. Bet the 13 year old isn't even thinking about it and if the mom hasn't said anything then what's the problem?

Also, it is censoring because the audience is exerting pressure to change expression. That's censorship.

[Quickstrike]

It is censoring when a specific special interest group (SJWs) want something removed because it offends them and their special snowflake safe zone bubble.

[PaleMoonDeath]

I watched my dad blow apart zombies in Resident Evil 2 with a shotgun when I was 7 years old, Nuke Dukem babes at 10, and beautiful clad girls in Final Fantasy games from 5! Don't play it in front of the kid, or the kid won't understand or care. Toughen up, the 13 year old would love it, the rest of us don't need too and we out number you tenfold.

All these beautiful girls do is make ugly girls angry, wonder why? because boys want beautiful women. the Feminist's are butthurt for a reason, because they refuse to get healthy and lose weight to appeal to good looking men.

[s45gr32]

So what is the purpose of the rating system. So, it makes you uncomfortable playing Grand Theft Auto with your 13 year old or MGS V. The rating system is there to let parents know that a M rated game is for adults. Censorship is not the answer, is time for parents to raise their child and let them know what is real what is fantasy.

[goathouse774]

You're an exception to the mostly reasonable game-buying public. Your sensitivity, collectively, is ruining EVERYTHING. When people hear these stories, they genuinely want to reach through the internet and wring your neck. Play something else, if it bothers you so much.

[ShakyTown]

This has nothing to do with America, it was the Korean media that brought attention to these potentially lewd ragdoll moments. It doesn't personally offend me or my individual tastes but it must have upset enough KOREANS to warrant the developers decision to make changes.

I can see how you would feel an affinity for Trump as neither of you seem to know what the fuck you're talking about or have any basic knowledge of how to form complex thoughts.

None of these companies are being censored in any way. They are reacting to what their public is telling them, that they might lose money by creating a product that has a divisive element to it. It's up to the developers to decide whether or not they wish to make changes to maximize their games sales potential. That's really what it all comes down to... Money.

As an example, DOA hasn't removed their jiggle physics because it's core to the game and it's why it sells units in the first place. In this instance objectification of women helps to sell their game. Money is the motivator as always.

@JOWAPPO I actually agree with almost everything you said. I'm just so sick of hearing people blame the SJW's when nobody is being forced to change anything. Maybe people should be holding developers responsible for their lack of steadfastness in defending their "artistic vision"

If it truly is a vocal minority of people who aren't even a part of their player base that is causing these changes, I'd say the developers need to grow a pair and tell those people to fuck off.

[JOWAPPO]

"None of these companies are being censored in any way."

Of course not, they're censoring themselves. Why do so many people have this incredibly specific idea of what censorship is? Censorship is the simply put, the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security. That doesn't mean people/companies can't do it to themselves. It's an act, not necessarily an authority act.

"They are reacting to what their public is telling them, that they might lose money by creating a product that has a divisive element to it. It's up to the developers to decide whether or not they wish to make changes to maximize their games sales potential. That's really what it all comes down to... Money."

You're right about that, but that's when we're talking about profit. In terms of artistic expression it is very much an example of suppressing your own ideas for the sake of what others have decided is "acceptable" (and morally, not technically). No one is forcing their hand, but what is being changed is something that will only cater to a certain type of person, unlike people who don't want to play broken games.

And unless their audience is primarily made up of people who are extremely sensitive to this kind of thing (pervy crap), I don't see why the Devs put scantily-clad women in at all. That isn't very logical. That tells me that that kind of person wasn't the target audience to begin with, so why are the Devs worried about upsetting them?

It's like how everyone was falling over themselves to cater to the progressives who weren't even going to buy their games. If it isn't made for them in the first place, then why are you listening to them? that can only harm the potential profit you'd receive from those who ARE buying the game.

Although this is an exceptional example, right? Because it's actually a big enough part of the playerbase who're complaining? That, and it's a whole 'nother country.

[PaleMoonDeath]

I should probably mention.. I'm not American, I'm British. I've been keeping an eye on all this mayhem that's going on in America and Europe as freedeom of speech and censor's are trying to be pushed upon free thinking folk, they fight with feelings, we luckily have facts to combat with. America has a huge influence on the rest of the globe, the number 1# example if a country of freedom, if the Americans say "This is sexist!" or "This is racist!" you best believe the rest of the globe minus Islam of course will follow suite just to appeal to the Americans as a market. I don't agree with everything Trump says but I enjoy his stand against censorship, lies, and corruption the left party is allowing. Our media is now effected, with Ghostbusters and an increasing number of censorships on OUR video-games the very thing we need to escape the chaos of what's happening out there.

You were awfully quick to judge me amigo, If I were American I would support Trump to save our video-games and media from this very real threat. These censors are result of the SJW crowd, a very small but VERY loud group that are effecting the rest of us. It's terrifying, and I strongly believe if Trump gets in, it'll will be exposed by mass media for the monster it is, even though it is common knowledge amongst people here, not many actually know this is going on. Keep up the good fight lads, love from Scotland!

[rainslacker]

Maybe, but they marketed the game as sexy. Overall, it's not really based on the screenshots, but the marketing of the game has all involved pretty sexy celebrities doing their thing to promote the game....not that I found any of that content quite as racy as some of the screenshots shown, but most of those seemed more a problem with the ragdoll physics, and people who don't like it when a woman's face has any hint of something that could be considered sexual in it's expression.

Seems a bit disingenuous to now just change something that someone found offensive, and if it's the Korean media, and they felt compelled to change it, that borders on censorship. Not forced censorship, but censorship borne from the reaction of a vocal outside source that may or may not have interest in the game itself.

[Erik7357]

I mean you have a right to make it and always will so take a chill pill and sit back but it won't stop you by being scrutinized by the rest or society. I know n4g contains 90% males between the ages of 13-25 so I know my opinion will be a minority but I thinks it's bullshit if your a woman playing games like this and having to play as a woman character in a game that looks like a booth babe instead of a soldier like the men characters in this game look is just because of low class shitty character design is what your defending skewed towards males for your looser boner endusing pleasure.

It's not to big of a deal but it's just annoying for women who wanna play as a soldier but not look like a hooker on the street

[rainslacker]

The male characters in this game would be what most women would consider sexy, and they are prone to the same ridiculous poses as the women are since as far as I can tell, most of them are just a byproduct of the physics design of the game. For the most part, while playing the game, you don't see stuff like that because it's a FPS, and by the time you're done killing someone, you're moving on to the next person to kill.

[PaleMoonDeath]

Video-games, movies, comic books and pretty much every media has beautiful women and certain clothing, believe it or not most women prefer the beautiful girls in whatever clothes they have, the minority are the one's lashing out at these things and if you take a look at who represents them.. You can see why not the most attractive bunch the SJW crowd are they?

Same can be said about men, Big Boss is a beautiful man, so is Duke Nukem.. Raiden.. jeez, even the common soldier! it's a double edged sword and it's not an issue for either side for what.. 50+ years? Don't like it? don't play it. Don't like it? don't watch it, Don't like it? don't read it. You know.. like normal people, the SJW cause is falling hard now that people have lashed back at it, Yes we want beautiful women, yes we want beautiful men. 2016 has given an unfortunate voice to a horrible, selfish, disgusting community against men and women in general. SJW's will be crushed. Do not allow their TRULY sexist cause threaten creators and our pleasure.

[s45gr32]

Thank you. We are adults are we not, we can differentiate between fantasy and reality. The majority of today's gamers are adults, according to scientists/researchers, already. Stop treating adult gamers like kids.

[ShakyTown]

Why would you assume most adults can differentiate between fantasy and reality? Donald Trump could be voted in as president due to a large % of the population who clearly can't differentiate between the two.

[MyDietEqualsGames]

My comment was flag for being inappropriate. I feel the irony surging through my post. Lol!!

[Idiedgoodbye]

Bloody hell I agree with you

[PaleMoonDeath]

Really happy that the community here by majority agree with me, I love seeing people come together and protect what they love, the few that tried to argue with us used insults as statements and lost to facts, preference and by a large majority, no to censorship. We do not need somebody else to say what we can enjoy or not, and I've much more faith in this N4G community as a result. Kudos to you all! hope everyone has a damned good day.

[feraldrgn]

What the heck is inappropriate about that?
Like Kyosuke mentioned, this is ragdoll physics, they're not "poses" & you can see how the pictures have been taken at specific angles to get that effect.

So some games get criticised when they don't have female characters, but others get criticised when they do?
Lulz.

[LackTrue4K]

Lol!! It's clear in one image that there shot her in the a$$. As the gun is aiming there when the body is dead.

That is not the developmenters Falt that there users are freaks!!

[opinionated]

"I apologize for my art" - 2016

[senorfartcushion]

Another day, another game developer getting in trouble because they just can't depict women properly. It's so creepy.

[DragonKnight]

Another day, another delicate doily who thinks these are women and not pixels. It's so sad.

[DragonKnight]

What? Did you even think out what you wanted to say beforehand typing out all of that completely irrelevant drivel?

[Nathan_Hale53]

They're women. And when they die, their bodies get thrown like a man does. So, sorry a few users are freaks. Guess physics is sexist.

[senorfartcushion]

There is a reason why objectivism is frowned upon.

You write of physics but you are the only one? The others write of mere pixels that get rendered through an API like any other, pixels that are maliable.

This isn't a battle against sexism, i am not going to use that word anymore. I call it "sulky kids." People are worried that art is being endangered but those people can't see that they themselves have already diminished any art that can be produced by both people of colour and those of the opposite sex and why?

Because your favourite Transformers character is Bumblebee: despite just being a robot, he was also perceived as a white teenage boy i.e. the favourite of the largest and most vocal audience.

It's a choice between He-man and Super Mario, both sexy and "normal" both made for us and Zelda and Big-Boobs Anime Girl, always sexy, always endangered and always for US as well.

[Nathan_Hale53]

So, first, the start of censorship is smaller things, so what is next? Characters being removed or reverse the roles just to reverse them instead of having meaning?

Who are you to determine what art is? Art is perceived differently per-person and if someone views the Mona Lisa as sexy, then props for their minds seeing something so different.

I can think of 10 female characters that are very strong and not particularly sexy, unless you are attracted to their persona's, or enjoy slight cleavage too much, which I simply enjoy them as characters fyi. Also sorry if you view Zelda as sexy. And she isn't really as defenseless as you think, cause she can handle herself well enough if you have actually played those games *cough* sheik, and if anything Zelda is only defenseless due to her being raised in nobility and never really experiencing things outside of a castle, but people enjoy just saying it is because she is a girl.

America is one of the few countries that, for some reason, think violence is ok, but the body = bad, and are the only ones that give one about it for some damn reason, which I live in.

[JOWAPPO]

"The fact that you, and probably many more of you lunatics can't link an image to what that image represents is baffling."

Or maybe most of us can differentiate a representation of reality to actual reality?

It wasn't even a matter of representing women wrong, it was a matter of people making sexy poses out of the game's radgoll physics. You could do that with any game that has ragdoll. What does that have to do with the Dev beside their decision to not give the women pants? It's not like they're making real female soldiers go into battle without proper protection. It's a fictional setting. Unless it strives for realism, what is the problem?

You might as well complain about any game that isn't %100 representative of reality as it is, why have an exception when it only involves women? Doesn't everyone have a right to proper depiction? I mean not every man is a chivalrous masculine badass with endless stamina like most games would have you believe.

Don't physics have a right to proper depiction?

[Christopher]

I don't see the developer getting in trouble, just deciding to make a change because some gamers requested it.

You can disagree with the change, you can disagree that the developer is making the change, but the fact is it happened and calling people SJW or anti-Feminists doesn't really have any bearing here when people ask for it and the developers do it just from being asked.

This thing wasn't controversial until it got into the hands of the video games media.

[Gh05t]

You do understand that the problem most people have is the REASON the request was made and that the developers CHANGED their original work based on a request made for those REASONS. So yes the reason plays a huge bearing in this topic, you are just downplaying it.

I love how when I started playing games it was the far right religious types that always asked for stuff like this, now it's swung and it's the far left progressives, can't wait for the good times again during the middle period as this pendulum will swing back eventually.

[Christopher]

You don't understand if the developer themselves didn't expect or didn't think about it and decided they didn't want it in their games either, do you?

You can have your reasons all you want, like I said above, but it doesn't make fact.

I'm not downplaying anything, I'm actually thinking in the middle rather than the "it must be removed!" or the "they FORCED them to remove it!" crowd. I'm in the middle going "they're freaking adults and can make their own decisions regardless what happens, and that's that." I'm not going to make it into anything more than that until they say "we felt we had to remove it because of what they said" or the like.

[rainslacker]

As it stands, this article says the community itself asked for these changes.

While there may have been quite a big outcry on the community, I dunno, I don't speak Korean, we've become accustomed to where most of this "huge outcry" is generally just a small group of individuals who may or may not play the game, or just one person who decides to write one message(say like Tracer in overwatch).

Since this article didn't really go into detail on that aspect of it, I'm going to assume that it's probably what we're used to, because this game itself has been marketed for adults, to be violent, and to have "sexiness" in it. Nothing shown in those pictures wasn't shown before release. It didn't have DOA levels of the sex sells mentality, but it was most definitely there, and to date, I've never seen a Korean based MMO or game be called out for being too lewd. In fact, it's quite common for their games to be worse than what most people complain about here on the western front.

Developer themselves have the right to change whatever they want, but if they're doing it due to a vocal minority, it's just kind of crappy they have to....and even apologize for it....which to me is just not acceptable since they don't have to be held accountable to anyone for their work.

It sets up a precedent that I'd prefer not become the norm.

If indeed it was a big part of their community, then fair enough, give them what they want, make a better game for them....but I find it hard to believe that's the case, because what I've always seen is that when one person complains, ten others will say they like it the way it is.

[annoyedgamer]

Your inability to comprehend simple matters is creepy.

[TricksterArrow]

Who cares about this game. If anything the developer is loving the attention and the buzz they themselves created by removing the content. I can imagine what a "big" uproar lolSudden Attack 2 must've generated because of sexual content... /s

[Relientk77]

Stop censoring everything geez

So freaking stupid

[ShinRon]

Seems like they are trying to pull a Blizzard, but not doing it as well.

Nice try tho fellas

[TRS_Gear]

Instead or removing characters entirely, couldn't they just throw some pants on the one and remove boob physics?

Or....... they could just leave it.

[rainslacker]

Apparently the facial expressions are not appropriate either. An expression of distress is provocative to some people it seems.

[Dixiedevil]

SJWs want chicks in FPS. SJWs don't want ragdoll dead chicks in FPS....and round and round we go.

[Yi-Long]

Instead of removing the females from their game, why not just remove all the whiners from their game? Don't like it? Don't buy it. Don't play it. That's what I do when it comes to games that have content I'm not interested in, or when it comes to games that are (self-) censored...

[lnfiniteLoop]

what age rating does the game have? if its 18 or higher I cannot see any problem...

[Kalebninja]

I like how the games own community complained and N4G still thinks the developer should ignore them. So devs should ignore people that aren't going to play their games and ignore the people that ARE playing their game? Okay then.

[DragonKnight]

Yes, devs should ignore all artisticly based criticism. Mechanic complaints, poor story pacing complaints, or anything that can be objectively bad, sure. The position of characters based on rag doll physics because of ideology? Not a valid complaint. You have to have played the game to even see it so they already bought the game meaning their complaints hold no weight.

[Kalebninja]

----->Opinions<-------

[Christopher]

***Yes, devs should ignore all artisticly based criticism. ***

Sorry, but I will never stop complaining about 'pink' or 'rainbow' armor in EverQuest. :D

[JOWAPPO]

WHAT DRAGONKNIGHT SAID.

Kaleb, you're conflating the concerns of a few, with the concerns of everyone. The irony is that you yourself are ignoring the concerns of people who bought the game and don't agree with the decision the Devs made. Those are the people who's sentiment is being represented here.

That, and the complaints DO NOT apply to the whole community, because they are artistic complaints like Dragonknight said. Not mechanical ones. We're not talking about game balancing or weapon nerfing, we're talking about sensibilities and ideology. This has been explained to you already and yet you keep over-simplifying the problem as if it's as cut-and-dry as "people wanted it, what's the problem?"

So it's okay that the Devs are nanny-stating the game based off what a portion of people want? What happened to letting people decide for themselves if they want to be exposed to that kind of content? Why is it okay for the sensibilities of some to dictate the sensibilities of everyone? When it comes to stuff like that, the only sensibilities that need to be represented are the sensibilities of the developer. if you don't like their artistic decisions then that's just too bad. You have the choice to ignore it like others have the choice to like it.

Why even be bother with the N4G community if you aren't going to listen to anyone?

[Kalebninja]

"Why even be bother with the N4G community if you aren't going to listen to anyone?"

I'm not going to listen to you, in the previous conversation you completely twisted my words to something i hadnt even said or implied and it's people like you that piss me off, you're passively telling me im wrong and should accept it or leave, i take critiscm but not when it's bs like yours. You're the one who's deciding who's opinion matters or not and thats incredibly hypocritically when you have the audacity to tell me thats what im doing. And i'd like to know where you pulled the concerns of the few versus the many bs because in no way shape or form does the article suggest it was a small portion of the community that had the issue nor does it suggest that any group opposed the decision. Have you're opinion on how things should work but im not taking it as fact because it's not one.

[JOWAPPO]

"I never referred to it as art, because its not art its a product..."

...

"Twiggy this isn't YOUR f***ing game it isn't your art"

You called it art, Kaleb. Indirectly, sure, but you called it art. I didn't put those words in your mouth. You said it isn't Twiggy's art, so then who's art is it, Kaleb? The Devs, duh, as it's "their game".

You're original point was that, Twiggy's concerns are just as valid as the concerns of everyone else in the game's community. And yet, KALEB, clearly that isn't the case because an artistic decision by the Devs was changed to appeal to a portion of the community that does not represent Twiggy or anyone like Twiggy. And yet you keep referring to those people as "the community", like thy represent everyone.

"...they can do what they want with THEIR game and they chose to do this so stop acting like something is being taken from you [,Twiggy,] when the games own community wanted this."

You said that, Kaleb, and that's why I said you contradicted yourself. You said the Devs can do whatever they want, but then said that the community wanted it. Who cares what anyone else but the Devs think about an artistic decision? What the community wants shouldn't be a point in the same comment as "it isn't your art" and "it's [the Dev's] game". because that point applies to EVERYONE, even the people who complained in the first place, "the community".

And so logically, the Devs didn't do anything that they, themselves wanted to do. if it were up to them, they wouldn't be taking anything out. You wouldn't have to remove something you didn't want to begin with. And so, they're letting someone else decide for them, hence why they feel the need to apologize for anything.

"And i'd like to know where you pulled the concerns of the few versus the many bs because in no way shape or form does the article suggest it..."

That's called logic. Regardless of whether or not its mentioned, it's only logical to assume that complaints from a community, particularly artistic ones, can only represent a portion of the game's playerbase. Or, are you seriously suggesting that literally everyone playing the game thinks in a hivemind? I highly doubt it.

And yet you continue to refer to that viewpoint as "the community". It's something "the community" wants. You're a part of the N4G community, Kaleb, and yet you clearly represent an alternative viewpoint. You are living proof of my point. Whether or not you are the majority viewpoint is IRRELEVANT. Whether or not you voice that viewpoint is IRRELEVANT. YOU EXIST. LOGIC DICTATES YOU EXIST, and I would never assume you didn't exist just because you aren't being represented in one article or bloody 100. The omission of proof is not proof of omission and all that jazz.

"you're passively telling me im wrong and should accept it or leave, i take critiscm but not when it's bs like yours."

You didn't take my criticism. I said: why bother with the discussion if you aren't going to listen to anyone? Just look at your recent point at the top of this chain. How you read my replies and still wrote something so ignorant blows my mind.

"You're the one who's deciding who's opinion matters or not and thats incredibly hypocritically..."

And now I'm deciding your opinions don't matter. Mm Hmm, Right, that's why I responded to them. That's why I'm still doing it. I don't think they matter, that's it.

[rainslacker]

So...you say it was the "community" because the article does. Couldn't just be one or a few people expressing their distaste like that one person did for Tracer in Overwatch, where apparently, it was the community also? Or all those other times we see this and it's just some complaining on Twitter, and it also happens?

Perhaps you could link us some relavent information about what portion of the community actually had a problem with this, because my own google search only turned up this one article. Maybe it exists on some Korean site, I dunno, but neither do you, but you obviously want to latch onto the community aspect to make your case, so I feel the impetus is on you to prove this is actually the case, because for the contrary side, we have ample anecdotal and correlative instances to refer to how more often than not, it is not in any way a community wide issue.

I think the game has gotten some negative media press in Korea over it based on a thread I read somewhere, but can't find it, but is that the community, or just the press deciding to jump on this game because some people decided to position their camera in positions which made it look like this was some sort of intentional pervasiveness put into the game? How come no other Korean game, many of which are much worse than this in terms of "sexiness' have had to change their characters or content to suit what one would assume is the same community? It's not like this is Nexon's first foray into the field of sexy. Far from it. Many of their games actually flaunt that quite a bit.

Also, how much of the community was against the changes, or didn't care to begin with? Maybe you can be an advocate for the entire community and bring some sense to us all so we can know exactly what's going on here, instead of just jumping to the conclusion which suits you best.

I dunno, I for one am going to err on the side of what we see more often, and that is that a vocal minority makes a fuss, and some people attribute it to being a big fuss among all or a majority of the people who play the game....kind of like it was with any western release....or that whole Tracer pose thing.

[JOWAPPO]

@Kalabninja

"I said that it isnt his art because he called it his art fool if you extend that quote just a bit more i said its there game and only that. Im done with this you refuse to stop so im done get over it and move the f*** on."

Extend the quote...? Okay, I'm pretty sure the term "game" was still in that quote, but sure, let's extend it some more right now.

"Twiggy this isn't YOUR f***ing game it isn't your art they can do what they want with THEIR game and they chose to do this so stop acting like something is being taken from you when the games own community wanted this."

Kaleb, you referred to the game as both the Dev's "game" AND "art". it doesn't matter what someone else calls it, what matters is what you called it. If you didn't want me to think it was your own words, why didn't you put it in quotes? Without quotes, you're telling me that the terminology/phrasing/wording is your own and you only have yourself to blame if you don't like that people respond to it. and instead of simply clarifying that, you first deny up and down that you said it, and then got pissy at me for making a point based off a word that wasn't even at the core of my counter-point to begin with.

My counter-point was that it was the Dev's creation (their expression, art, game, WHATEVER), and so, like you said, it's their decision at the end of the day, (I was agreeing with you), but that that didn't jive with the other other points that you made. First you say one thing (the Devs can do whatever they want), and then you contradict yourself by saying something else (the fans wanted it).

But, instead of respond to those points, you either choose to get all bent out of shape over my phrasing, or you heavily victimize yourself over how I'm putting words in your mouth, or how I'm criticizing your refusal to address anyone's points. Nope, just keep falling back on "----->Opinions<--- " and how the N4g community thinks in general.

You want to talk about phrasing though, we can talk about phrasing:

"Im done with this you refuse to stop so im done get over it and move the f*** on."

This is word salad, Kaleb. It's a mess of a sentence. I honestly had to stop and analyze every individual word before it made sense to me. What do you mean I "refuse to stop", what does that even mean, Kaleb? Do you mean I refuse to stop responding to your responses? The same ignorant responses you keep writing? The only reason I'm responding is because you keep responding. That's called a "CONVERSATION".

I'm not trying to make you upset, I'm trying to explain to you why I think your opinions and responses are disingenuous, ignorant and make you seem willfully unwilling to have a productive back and forth (constantly telling people to f*** off is a nice touch though). But seriously, I'm simply holding you accountable to your right to an opinion. You can't expect me to not respond to what someone else writes. You have the right to say something just like I have the right to respond to what you say. Welcome to the free and open marketplace of ideas.

The only person here who's making themselves look like they need to get over anything is YOU, Kaleb. Hell, there are plenty of people here who have expressed alternative opinions (and even in a funny way) without resorting to the lowly, petty attitude that you're just rocking like a rockstar.

A rockstar with a crappy attitude!

...Oh wait, yeah, so a rockstar.

[xlbLoOdlx]

@JOWAPPO

Your comments are hands down the most well-written, logical, and absolutely correct comments I have ever read on this site. I sincerely mean that. 8-9 years and I have never been so interested in following a conversation. Keep up the good work!

P.S. You're absolutely correct about everything you've said to this kid. I'm baffled at his responses and his attempts to justify them.

Where's the follow/subscribe button?!

[Psychotica]

So it would be ok to have male characters in inappropriate poses?

[DragonKnight]

It already is. Watch a playthrough of Succulent or Cho Aniki. NO ONE is complaining about those games.

[JOWAPPO]

Absolutely, it happens all the time. Check out your typical gaming youtube channel, it's quite the source of enjoyment when one player's face falls into another player's butt.

[rainslacker]

It can indeed. And their male characters are what most women...and some men...would consider sexy. Just they don't get people positioning their cameras and taking screenshots in a way that is provocative and then subsequently release them to the internet so others can enjoy, or be triggered....depending on one's own inclinations.

On a side note, I find it rather amusing just how offended people can become over a bit of "sexy" content. I mean, seeing a dead chick flopped over in unnatural positions with blood splattered all over her back end really is provocative....wouldn't you say?

All but one of the screenshots, maybe two if you stretch it, is what I would consider an actual pose. The rest just seemed like a byproduct of the games physics engine in relation to character object models....also known for a long time as ragdoll physics. The facial expressions though seemed a bit of stretch to criticize. While I know people are into such things, I don't personally find a woman expressing some form of distress all that provocative.

But, from what I've learned based on other situations like this, it's that those that complain, have the dirtiest minds of all....moreso than those they seem to say are perverts on a routine basis....because they seem to instantly come to the most extremely perverse conclusion possible, when most people never notice, don't care, or move on once the novelty wears off.

[BrickHardcastle]

This is hilarious to read these comments. If developers change the balancing on a gun or something because of negative fan feedback, no-one bats an eyelid. If developers change some creepy-looking character models because of some fans didn't like them, people are like" "OMG CENSORSHIP! SJWS! MUH FREE SPEECH!" If you want to know what actual censorship is, try living under a dictatorship for a while. If you want to look at boobs that badly, go watch some porn. Literally no-one is stopping you.

[DragonKnight]

The difference is monumental. One is a complaint about an objective design flaw that impacts everyone, the other is a complaint about random conditions converging to create a single moment. Go ahead and try to control rag doll physics, see how far you get.

[BrickHardcastle]

One person's objective design flaw might be another person's well-designed mechanic. At the end of the day, it's up to developers to decide who they want to listen to. For the record, I actually agree with you that it's silly to try and control rag doll physics, I just think how people are reacting to a developer's tweaking in such hyperbolic terms is also pretty silly.

[DragonKnight]

"One person's objective design flaw might be another person's well-designed mechanic."

Haha, no. An objective design flaw is an objective flaw, not a subjective flaw. This means that there is no "this is terrible", "oh you think so? I think it's great." situation. It's factually wrong. Like the hitboxes in Dark Souls 3 pvp for example. That's an objective design flaw. Collision detection, bugs, etc.. those are examples of objective design flaws.

[BrickHardcastle]

The balancing on a gun isn't like collision detection or bugs though. I deliberately chose that example because it's something that people disagree about, and it's ultimately something the devs have to make a difficult judgement call on who they listen to.

[rainslacker]

@Brick

Except with a game play balancing issue, the results can speak for themselves, and players, as a whole, can attribute objective reasons why it works, or why it doesn't work based on the context of the game itself. If you have a gun that is able to one or two shot people, regardless of how accurate it is, it's unbalanced, and leads to either everyone using that gun or people to stop playing because it's either not fun due to people spamming it, or people becoming extremely annoyed that they can not manage to have the same kind of effect with their own play style.

All this can be discussed, and shown how it effectively ruins the experience as a whole, regardless of if some people are fine with it, and from my experience, the people fine with such unbalances are those that like to spam what is one step down from an exploit, or in the case of some MMO's, those who will see a big drop to their DPS/ability stats through the nerf.

Game play nerfs such as that are analyzed to see if one thing is unbalanced among the whole, and more often than not, it's plainly obvious that something needs to be adjusted.

In the case of "sexy" or if it's offensive, it's completely subjective. Some people won't care, others will. But in terms of actual game play, it has no actual effect on the game. Even changing the poses won't have an effect on the game, just will supposedly keep some people quiet. It can cause some people to not enjoy the game, because they don't enjoy such things in their games, but that isn't unbalanced game play, just people who prefer different kinds of content.

Given that this kind of content was shown well before the games release, I remember seeing it plenty of times since I"ve been following the game, it seems odd that the others buying into the game are suddenly appalled by it.

The devs weren't marketing these kinds of screen shots, because they were more a byproduct of the physics engine, and not meant to be a major factor in terms of game play, but the "sexy" was always there with this game, and if you watched enough, even in official game play trailers, you would see that these kinds of things would happen. Most of the marketing was based on the "sexy". Chloe Morentz and some Korean idol both did marketing for this game, and while not overly sexual, it was certainly sexy. At no point did they hide this game would be sexy. But some people took it up a notch, made screenshots to make it seems like this was some sort of purposeful implementation, and then ran with it and demonized the game over it.

On top of that, Nexon is well known to have plenty of sexy games, so when people come in, claim they're part of the community, and then have a problem with it, it does seem suspect.

[BrickHardcastle]

@rainslacker

You know what? Fair enough. That's an interesting, well-informed, thoughtful perspective on the issue and you didn't need to resort to hyperbole or name-calling. I saw a few comments that were just so nasty, I went on a bit of a rant. If I just saw comments like the one you just made I would probably just nod my head and move on. In this case it really is just the hyperbolic way of making the argument that I dislike, even if I might be sympathetic to the argument behind it all.

[JOWAPPO]

This is a gross misrepresentation of the problem.I pray that you're not a journalist.

[BrickHardcastle]

Why does that matter? Am I reporting on this? I don't have the right to be a journalist because I have a personal opinion that diverges from yours? Why not explain your point of view rather than immediately declaring I don't have a right to mine?

[JOWAPPO]

@BrickHardcastle

Ï'll do just that!

The journalist quip was more a joke about how journalists don't do a good enough job of representing an issue properly, hence your over-simplification of the general consensus here in the comments. I'm not saying you don't have the right to be a journalist...? What. I''m likening your assessment of the comments to how a terrible journalist would assess them (how they want, not how they are). Please don't take it so personally, it wasn't meant as an invalidation of anyone's right to an opinion, just a bad joke.

But why I called your opinion a gross misrepresentation of the problem is because that's what you did. Misrepresent in a gross way.

"This is hilarious to read these comments."

1) you started your comment by addressing what I'm assuming is a general or popular opinion of this comments section. You are now liable to be called out depending on how you represent and respond to that general/popular opinion.

"If developers change the balancing on a gun or something because of negative fan feedback, no-one bats an eyelid. If developers change some creepy-looking character models because of some fans didn't like them, people are like" "OMG CENSORSHIP! SJWS! MUH FREE SPEECH!" If you want to know what actual censorship is, try living under a dictatorship for a while. If you want to look at boobs that badly, go watch some porn. Literally no-one is stopping you."

2) and this is where I call you out. You summed up the general opinion terribly. You're basically saying that I, and many others are saying that the Devs shouldn't listen to criticism that we don't like. That's a gross simplification of the opinion. It doesn't represent it at all.

The actual argument is that, regarding artistic decisions, the Devs shouldn't have to listen to anyone. That isn't the same thing as listening to criticism pertaining to the game's mechanics. One is talking about making the game better and the other is talking about making the game "better". Get it, because it doesn't necessarily make the game better, it just makes it more acceptable for a particular type of person's sensibilities.

You're the one who brought up the weapon balancing example and conflated that to people complaining about the game sacrificing its artistic direction so that it doesn't offend people. That isn't the same thing.

-If I tell a developer that a gun is busted, I'm telling them that a game element must be changed, but in service to the intended design of the overall experience the Dev wanted to create.

-However, if I tell a developer that they should make a character less sexy (or remove said-character), I'm telling them that a game element must be changed, but in a way that is a disservice to the design of the overall experience the Devs wanted to create.

The point is that they aren't the same thing.

[BrickHardcastle]

Well it's nice to know you're not actually calling for my head! You'll forgive me for assuming the worst as what you're saying jokingly is what a great number of people are saying to games journalists seriously on a daily basis. That and far worse.

Perhaps I should have clarified "some of the comments" I suppose? Do you feel that I'm addressing you? I'm just exasperated about the conflation of "censorship" with "tweaking a game after receiving fan feedback". It demeans what the word really means, and what it means is very serious.

From an ethical or artistic standpoint there's not necessarily any difference between the balancing on a gun, or the inclusion of a boob or a butt. Some FPS creators take gun balancing and bullet physics VERY seriously, and it's a core part of their vision for a game. Some creators evidently take boobs and butts just as seriously. Maybe some fans had the same mindset that you have. Maybe they think removing what they see as weird, creepy models gets closer to what the core vision of the game actually is? I don't know, but that's not really what I'm actually taking issue with.

It's this idea that anyone who has a different opinion about what they want to see out of a game is some sort of censorious "SJW" monster is what I am so irritated by. I'd prefer it if the discussion was a bit deeper, more meaningful, more respectful and less nasty than that.

[Gh05t]

I would like to chime in that my friends watch me stop playing games, supporting developers, and bitch all the time when tiny little gun or character skill nerfs happen in games. So yes people like me who want zero change after I have paid money do exist.

[zombiewombie]

Isn't this every game with rag doll physics? I can't tell you the amount of times someone has died in a "sexual" position in fallout or skyrim. So she has big boobs with crazy physics, do people want to start complaining about anime too?

[rainslacker]

Some already complain about anime, and anime games routinely.

[reimertz]

Guys wearing proper body armor and shit, women are naked with big ass fake bouncing boobs. Ye, seems legit.

[MagicBeanz]

But the disturbing and inappropriate images of male characters will remain unchanged, lol. Funny how conveniently selective people are on whats appropriate and whats not.

[Lordani66]

This is my comment from one week ago, when Cammy was announced to be nip-less in SFV:
"First it's the other female character's butt slap taunt, then it's not releasing DOAXtreme 3, then overall butthurtness over Tekken 7 bikini DLC tweet from creator, and now THIS? How much more are SJWs gonna f*** up gaming for us? Here we go with "liberal" leftist bs agenda!"

I guess we can add another BS censorship to that list.

[InTheZoneAC]

the crying from perverts is strong.

No matter if it's the government or customers that want it corrected, the one's defending this will always clickity clack disagree and state it's always censorship.

Apparently only the people defending this are allowed to state their opinions...

Either way I couldn't care less, but it is sad at the same time that people sorely obsess over these things in games and always want more.

[DragonKnight]

"Corrected"

What was objectively wrong?

[rainslacker]

The perverts?

How come it's the people complaining that seem to jump to the most excessively perverse notion that any representation could possibly represent?

I'm sorry, but I see what some of these people complain about, and I wonder just how much in the gutter their mind is, because in half the cases I've seen to date, I have not once thought to myself, "oh yeah, that's sexy and hot, I'm so turned on right now". But these saints of purity certainly do seem to be able to find the most inane things to be sexual.

So....who exactly is the pervert here?

This article had about 10 pictures in it. One, maybe two, are what I'd call, "sexy". The rest were just distrubing and kind of perverse due to unnatural lewdness. But you know what? All those pictures were just by products of the game engine, and some person going to extraordinary lengths to make it look sexual in some way. Were those people perverts? Maybe. Is that what everyone in the game is going for? Maybe, but sounds like it'd get boring after a while.

So, if you find dead women splattered with blood flopped all over the place in positions which on their own may be provocative, or if you find women showing serious signs of distress provocative, then I'm afraid that you are simply seeing what you want to see, and IMO, doing so from a way that is more perverse than most people I see around here, who don't mind a bit of playful or outright sexiness from time to time, because they realize it's fake characters, and have more of an open mind, and if I had to guess, what they find "perverted" is what normal society has considered alluring for centuries, if not eons, now.

[Fist4achin]

I don't see a problem here. If you don't like it, don't play it.

Don't show up to a strip club and complain about what the strippers are wearing or lack thereof. Just don't go if it's going to bother you. Too many complainers and babies...

[TheTony316]

People are so sensitive these days.

[Fullmetalevolust]

That's honestly how I sleep, and sometimes a boob pops out, so what...? and I'm a dude.
Honestly, if I did, put me in a compromising position like the ones above, my loved ones will be sad but after a few months they'll have a cackle.

[Godmars290]

Soon after the same people will complain about the lack of female characters.

[Cy]

Attractive women are so unrealistic and creepy! Don't you know *real* women are ugly and not sexual in any way? This is why we need feminism!!!1!!1

[PFFT]

What a bunch of Ninnies. If its a female, Poo hits the fan BUT if it were a guy no one bats an eye. This crap is getting ridiculous.

[s45gr32]

I do not understand why there is so much censorship for videogames. According to so many researchers, more and more gamers are of age 18 and over. If gamers are older or adults already, why censor videogames. It does not make sense and makes the ESRB irrelevant. What is the point of having M-rated games or AO rated games, if the games are going to be censored anyways.

[Pancit_Canton]

Feminist are taking over the gaming industry. **** that ****

[gangsta_red]

Even the pic of this article was changed! Lol!

[Christopher]

Changed it to the same image the article itself uses rather than the clickbait image they used on N4G but not their own site...

[donwel]

GameHi owned by Nexon, a South Korean company.
Before I even clicked, I thought "I bet they're Korean".
For those not in the know, South Korea has some very backwards laws on pornography and other sexual material (or what can be considered sexual material at the whim of the government).
From what I've heard you can get a longer jail term for possession of porn than you do for rape over there (you also get put on a sex offenders register).

[SegaGamer]

Wow, they are even getting upset over ragdoll physics now. What has happened to people ? This really is the generation of the oversensitive.

[WilliamSheridan]

I'm so sick of what is happening to art...

[zodiac909]

With all the removed female content going around lately, they might soon ban females from games all together. :'(
What has the world come to!?

[Chinkyinc18]

I doubt the actually players of the game batted a eye; these are all random coincidence of physics and I'm sure the players know that. This seems like some bored guy looking for some quick hits, along with a stale Korean newscorp picking up said blog and whoring for attention. This is beyond censorship, it's full-blown ignorance at its best.

[thejigisup]

They should just kill the game, censor everything

[ajax17]

political correctness is cancer

[ITPython]

So basically, one feminazi complained and ruined it for the other 99.9% who didn't mind.

[krazeecain]

Removed? Like they removed these characters *completely* because ragdoll physics happened to put them in awkward positions? That is so hilariously over the top, I can only assume they fabricated this outrage for free publicity. What kind of a dumbass would prescribe that solution to this "problem"?

Between this and Tracer's pose controversy, I'm starting to think developers are taking advantage of people that are highly reactive to SJW BS in order to garner free publicity. This won't be the last time an obscure developer takes drastic action in response to dumb criticism.

[annoyedgamer]

Which part of Iran is Nexon based in?

[DivineAssault]

Whats wrong with this world?

[Maxor]

This happens in every game with female characters and ragdoll physics! God damn SJWs!

[JokerBoy422]

Hey look! More pandering!