Project Scorpio a Desperate Move for Microsoft?

Microsoft announced Project Scorpio at E3 2016: Could this be one last desperate measure to take down the PS4?

[Haru]

Don't really care for scorpio, there is no point in waiting almost 2 years for scorpio when I can just build a scorpio right now by myself if i want to i can get a rx 480 or gtx 1070 and build a pc even stronger than scorpio and play the same games in 4k since all xbox games are also coming to pc

[Bzone24]

From what I've seen of your comments, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't see a point in waiting if it came out tomorrow.

Btw, Scorpio comes out closer to a year and a half as opposed to almost two years.

[Kingthrash360]

Still he has a point..
But I don't think this is a move to catch the ps4...it's a move to compete in pc gaming. Of this was still a console battle then it would still have exclusives. Making exclusives available on pc will only draw pc gamers that want to play ms games. If you have a gaming rig, then you have an xbox already. What you may not have is win10. You might hate win 10 and prefer win 7 or mac or whatever. This is to draw more win 10 users and usher in the windows store. Havein games on pc isn't gunna boost xbox sales....nor is announcing scorpio this soon at the same minute you announce the slim.
This is a pc move and it's clear it's ms new focus for xbox.

[darthv72]

Thrash you sound just like the naysayers who said the same thing about the original xbox.

"Why buy an xbox when its basically a PC... " you are to thick headed to stop with the political mudslinging.

You know the drill. There are PC people and console people. They buy what they want and play how they want and no manner of you trying to derail that train of thought is going to change that.

Change the record.

[morganfell]

Kingthrash isn't the one repeating statements:

http://usatoday30.usatoday....

"Xbox reflects Gates' revamped corporate mission from " 'a computer on every desk running Microsoft software,' to 'anytime, anyplace, any device,' leveraging our software and PC assets," Bach says."

[senorfartcushion]

And you start with "epic fail your comment?"

[Filmicfps]

Sony do the same thing with the Neo but with alleged weaker specs= yay! For the players
MS does the same thing but with monstrous specs= Desperation!

[UltimateMaster]

Again, this rush for higher power is all good, but what makes or breaks a consoles are games.
Microsoft hasn't shown anything much that was new at E3 except mentioning that they are all coming to a windows 10 PC near you.
A side from Xbox fans, nobody needs to pay for 2 machines that plays all of the same games.
Having people move away from the Xbox console over to PC means that Microsoft will loose even more sales when they go over to Steam and Origin rather than their store.

[TheCommentator]

King Thrash, there is some merit to your post, but I think you've got the context wrong.

The merger of Xbox and PC is about making the brand bigger, and it will increase MS software sales (and therefore profits), and ultimately a console is just one method of getting the brand into the hands of consumers. I'm going to eventually be able to play my Xbox games from my phone, on a tablet, from any PC, or on a set top Xbox console. The merger will also open up opportunity for the Xbox to become a full PC that sits in your living room (for people like me who don't use a PC that much), for a social culture to form around the Xbox community always being connected, and other things as well. I'm obviously just theorizing here, but you have to at least consider the possibility that MS has bigger plans for the Xbox ecosystem than just selling their games on the PC for some extra revenue.

[rainslacker]

I agree with you calling out of Haru.

But I'm going to speak personally, and say, I see no point in building a PC just to play MS exclusives, because they really don't appeal to me, and the variety isn't there to make it worthwhile. Steam OTOH, and similar services, do offer that variety, and it may be worth building a PC for that. However, I'm content with consoles, and they provide me with plenty of games. I have both a PS4 and X1, along with WiiU, Vita, 3DS, and more retro systems than I care to mention, so I'm pretty good for a while.

But I can say, that should I be willing to put together a PC, the X1 becomes redundant, and for the most part, most of the games I would play on it wouldn't be MS exclusives, because they just aren't that exciting to me, which means MS own storefront becomes unused, thus, their ecosystem becomes useless to me.

In any case, my current PC, which is kind of old, is actually sufficient to play the MS exclusives coming out. Despite having an old video card, it meets the minimum requirements ,and it wouldn't take more than a couple hundred dollars to make it good enough to last the next 3-4 years for new min specs that are incoming. No need to drop lots of money on an X1 at all, and given my situation, no need to buy much of anything off the MS store. Maybe Scalebound, Recore, and cuphead, but that's about it.

[slavish0]

but u r all talk and arent and who cares not m$ u'd be paying them anyways. ...so epic fail?

[WilliamSheridan]

Does this sentence make sense to ANYONE?

[holdmyown83]

Epic fail your comment! We need COMPLETE sentences if your going to try and talk shit.

[ONESHOTV2]

dude you really need to finish your words before you move on to the next one

[NewZealander]

Banana? No i dont get it at all...

[zb1ftw777]

Gtx 1070 wont play the same games at 4k.

Feel free to waste your money in trying to prove otherwise though.

[DragonDDark]

We will see if the Scorpio can run native 4k games first.

[jmc8888]

1070 is more powerful than Scorpio. That's simply a fact, and it's not even debatable.

Scorpio is rumored to be 5-6 TFlops of AMD TFlops. 1070 is 6.4 of more efficient Nvidia TFlops, and that's at stock speeds, once you overclock it, or even just buy an super clocked ones (which is almost everything that isn't a founder's edition) you're looking at 7+ TFlops.

Having a GTX 970 already, I know how well even it can run 4k. It's a definite toe in 4k. There's a good number of games you can get going at 4k/60, some with a few dips.

Alien: Isolation
Borderlands 2
Dark Souls 2
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Skyrim
Fallout New Vegas
Metro: Last Light
Mortal Kombat X
Project Cars
Sleeping Dogs
Tomb Raider

Those are just the games I've tried, I should try a few hundred other games I have to see how much more I can add to that list.

A 1070 with some settings lowered, should average in the 40's on even Witcher 3 at 4k. All the above will be rock solid at higher settings, and many other games will be able to be added to that list, like Battlefield 4, Plants Vs Zombies Garden Warfare, Mad Max, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Feel free to wait a year and a half for something less powerful (and I haven't even talked about CPU wise).

Scorpio will be a nice system, but it won't match up to a 1070, and the Scorpio WILL be approximately 1/3rd the power of the top single PC GPU from late 2017. (Likely a 1080ti or new Titan)

[starsi360]

JMC8888.... The xbox isn't 'rumoured' to be 5-6tflops, MS stated it was 6 tf at e3.

Also, you seem to be forgetting that any custom hardware has a huge advantage of being specific, so devs can optimise their code to run more efficiently on the hardware.

Look at how things like Doom run on the XB1 - considering the lack of grunt in the CPU and GPU the debs have done a great job of getting the most out of it. Because it's specific, custom hardware.

[PhucSeeker]

@jmc Simply a fact ... Rumored to be.
... ok.

[WilliamSheridan]

People keep forgetting, even with the drivers for PC that are way better these days, you still needed a PC with more power to match a console due the fact that they aren't running all that extra crap / bloated OS.

[Ysmir6723]

My windows 8.1 consume 700 mb ram.What bloated hardware???My 12 cousin knows how to use adwcleaner,Junkware Removal Tool and malware bytes and even built himself a 400$ pc with 8gb ram,an i5 4460 and an 8gb 290,easily 3 times more powerfull than a ps4.Also,a 750 ti is faster than a ps4 and it costs 70$.No comment on the tablet cpu.

@WilliamSheridan With 15 years of expirience and 4 modern,3 retro pcs i spent about 3 months using diffrent os on 4 diffrent computers,8.1 seems to be the best and 10 the worst.I personally use enterprise most of the time for cad and 3d rendering,with a E7-8891V4 and a quadro m6000.I think my gaming pc with sli 1080s and an i7 5960x dosent need to be "to the metal" to extremely easily destroy whatever a console can produce with its current and future hardware.

Also,out of my 16gb ram my os takes 700mb.How piss pour has a pc have to be to idle at 30-40% cpu usage???My 5960x uses during watching a 4k 60 fps video and at the same time playing far cry 3 ultra 1440p 60fps 35%.At idle,its 0-1%.Either YOUR pc has more viruses than i can count or you have literally no idea about HOW a pc works.Never seen a person claim to have as much experience as you do and know so little.Finnaly,of all the things that run in the backround,the one that takes the most memory is the service host which takers 28 mb of ram.All 18 more are 10 mb and down.Idle ram is at 12%.I suggest to get educated on the matter,because you seem to have left extremely behind,even from my 12 year old cousin,who already has learned 3D object Oriented Programming.Good luck.

[WilliamSheridan]

Please don't dare tell me about PC and then try to give your cousin credit for using malware and adware while mentioning that you are using a Windows 8 machine. No self respecting PC guy used Win8 and those aren't exactly complicated tools. Has your cousin been building PCs like I have back when IBM first introduced a math co processor in their nexgen line of chips? Do you remember freeing up conventional memory? Ever use a floppy disk?

Anyway! PCs even with these new drivers that have been "to the metal" still require almost twice the power of a console to match the results. Let's not get into this debate... You aren't prepared

[whothedog]

Watch out this guy used a floppy disk before, he is a pc guru!

[jmc8888]

There's a few things you've overlooked.

One, OS is a small footprint on PC nowadays
Two, Consoles now are PC's with huge and complex OS'es themselves.

If anything consoles are held back more because of their OS than PC's BY FAR. That's why the PS4 and XB1 have 8 GB's, but can only use what about ~5.5 GB's?

That and they reserved what two or three threads of the CPU too? But now they've given half of one back to be available.

Again, if anything consoles are more bloated than PC's.

PC API's have been getting thinner and thinner, to the point where with DX12 and some of the others, you are basically able to 'code to the metal'.

We also have to remember that most of the console efficiency comes from proper coding, which the vast majority of console games aren't. So if say only 5 percent of console games are properly coded, efficiency of consoles are being wasted on the other 95 percent. Theoretically they can, but often this is left on the table.

Also consoles leave a good portion of power on the table when the CPU is underclocked. The CPU's in consoles are running at 1.6ghz and 1.8ghz, when the PC version could easily hit 4-5 GHZ.

Thus if you take the entire package together, and we still need to see how good the Scorpio CPU is, if it were to run at say 2.4GHZ, it's still going to be leaving power on the table compared to a 4-5GHZ CPU, especially if it's an Intel CPU. So the CPU advantage, is going to override much of the efficiency gains of consoles. A Nvidia TFlop has been shown to be more powerful than an AMD TFlop, so in totality, a GTX 1070 matched with an overclocked Intel (or AMD) CPU, and we're talking about the vast majority of games which aren't perfectly coded, the 1070 will perform much better than a Scorpio.

In reality consoles really don't have much advantage overall. All they have is that if you make a game for one configuration you can be ahead of the curve in terms of optimization. So maybe if everything else was equal (and it usually isn't given PC's power gap) then a console version is going to be more optimized at least until Nvidia or AMD put out a driver update or two. Then again, now consoles will have two configurations, so that might not be done as well on both configuration from time to time.

I get your point, consoles are correctly known for squeezing more out when properly coded (a rarity), but their disadvantages by underclocking their CPU, and the possibility to be running stronger Intel and Nvidia parts wipe that advantage away effectually. Spencer said himself the Scorpio is like the power of a GTX 980. So a 1070 is going to be significantly more powerful.

[WilliamSheridan]

@jmc8888 you would be correct if all we had to worry about on PC wss the memory our OS takes up. But open your system tray and I guarantee you have like twenty things listed there eating up probably most of your memory and occasionally eating as much as 30-40% cpu power while idling (watch it fluctuate).

We aren't just talking OS these days. You got graphics drivers, Wi-Fi drivers and programs, anti virus software that has become quite a hog, not to mention the many little network drivers and various peripherals you have attached. After that, you still have a developer who has to make things run on 100 different variations of machines, so guess what, maybe 5 of those will get optimized.

Out of 8gb on a pc, you'd be lucky to have half available if you use your PC for anything other than gaming, and lucky if you had 70% if you ran it lean. Honestly, PCs eat more resources simply because they do more, and gaming is definitely not the primary use.

[JOHN_DOH]

@jmc8888

A teraflop is a measurement that isn't specific to nvidia or AMD. FLOPS is short for floating point operations per sec. I think you are confusing it with "cores" on the gpu. AMD usually have a higher number of cores than a similar performing nvidia gpu.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

@WilliamSheridan
you can just set your programs to not start automatically and they won't use resources unless you start the program.

[rainslacker]

@Ysmir

The problem with PC's is that there are added layers between the software and the hardware itself. Namely, the software layer, the OS layer, and the driver layer. The OS layer was removed for DX12, which is why it's more low level.

However, this is the reason why consoles can get more out of lesser hardware, because the software layer directly interacts with the hardware layer through a low level API. PC's bloat, outside the things that Will mentioned, are more in the inefficiency that is added with the interpretation through all those different layers before the game code ever hits the hardware itself.

The amount of RAM used is actually not indicative of how fast code runs, or gets to the hardware.

Otherwise, 8.1 is better than 10, although DX12 is better than DX11 in terms of efficiency.

Nothing needs to be to the metal, however, getting to the metal removes extra processes within the game code and allow for more flexibility in utilizing the hardware that does exist, instead of being held back by driver or OS implementation of the code itself.

What you're basically describing, in terms of power, is more a brute force method of achieving results, as opposed to writing optimized code specifically for the hardware itself. Although, I can concede that the more recent GPU's are capable enough to brute force current game design code. It still doesn't remove the fact that consoles can generally achieve more with the same level of hardware....which is why they often come out at lower hardware specs compared to computers. been like this for a while, although MS seems to be going for a different, more software driven approach to handling compliance between two different sets of hardware...which of course adds some layer of abstraction. If I had to guess, Sony will be doing something similar, thus consoles will get less out of the hardware comparative to their predecessors.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

You can also build a Neo.

[johndoe11211]

Yeah, but you won't be able to play uncharted, God of War, the last guardian or horizon on it would you?

[SCW1982]

No you can't cause you won't get the exclusives. EPIC FAIL bruh.

[ChiefofLoliPolice]

Moron...

[Next_gen_2015]

@Haru

If you're into building a PC...then go ahead.

[Yetter]

cool, you should go do that then. I've already got a great PC, but I'll happily buy a scorpio. I'm not the only one in my house that uses my console or my PC

[Obscure_Observer]

@Kingthrash360

Spin it all you want. Seems to me that you are simply desperate because it´s almost certain that Scorpio will turn out to be the most powerful console. Your bias show when you say Scorpio is competing with PC and NOT including all Xbox One consoles in the same equation.

If MS is compete in PC gaming, why on earth they would give away for free a copy of a game that you bought for X1/PC or vice versa?

That´s nonsense

[LastcenuryRob]

That's pretty much where gaming is headed. However, I doubt you would be able to build the Scorpio equivalent on PC for the same price when it is released. Also, it works both ways...there will be more PC games on the console than there normally be.

[sammarshall102]

Gaming on PC... No thanks I'll pass

[ChiefofLoliPolice]

Your loss. PC will always be a better long term investment. Plus you can use the dual shock 4 or the Xb1 controller with a ton of games on PC. Is funny how some people get scared of PC gaming.

[ASSASSYN]

If you could do that you wouldn't be bothering with consoles in the first place.

[sammarshall102]

With all of the day 1 $60 games I have on my Xbox One I could've been started PC gaming but I'm not into PC gaming it seems weird to me

[Kiwi66]

Good for you but not everyone wants to do that though but have fun with your pc

[Kingoftherodeo]

do it m8 build pc, give ms money for operating system and give them money for the games.

[Scatpants]

I think what would be really awesome would be if Scorpio essentially was a PC also. Like it ran PC apps like Office or Photoshop. I know they never would do that, but I would be down. It would be like a midrange gaming PC. They're starting to push PC stuff lately though so who knows?

[PistolsAtDawn]

Bet money that 90% of the people that "agreed" with you don't have a PC or any intention of getting one...just simply don't want to see Scorpio succeed.

I however, DO have a PC and all the current consoles...and I DO see tons of value in Scorpio...esp with Play anywhere. I typically play on console...this way if I want to play on PC, my saves and everything instantly pick up where I left off....and I only have to buy the game once.

However, whether or not you get those games on PC or Xbox, MS wins...and so does their gaming division...the more they see profit, the more they will reinvest in gaming...and all gamers will profit...so by all means, buy those games.

[_-EDMIX-_]

I don't either personally, but I can't really call it "desperate" is simply business.

They can't really afford to let Sony release a upgraded PS4 while they do nothing. I would make even less sense if they actually did nothing.

Would you recommend Blockbuster to not do streaming just cause Netflix is doing it?

For XONE owners who don't game on PC, its a way for them to still play their console while also getting better performance, but hey I agree with you...I personally don't get it.

I'd rather have GTX 1080 and just play the few XONE games I even wanted on PC considering I'm still building a PC to even play titles like Dawn Of War 3, along with likely re-buying Witcher 3 and Fallout 4.

[DJStotty]

So is your view valid for PS4 Neo also?

So in theory you dont really care for consoles full stop. So why arent you on PC?

On your point of "all xbox games are coming to PC" so far that hasn't been clarified and only a handful of games are in the "play anywhere" program. But could also be a good thing for xbox owners as the reverse might come into effect. "PC exclusives come to xbox".

Options are good, we have a choice, build a pc if you have the no-how, or just buy a console. The same choice we have had for years, nothing has changed.

[Lennoxb63]

It's not a desperate move. It's more of a Microsoft exclusive dilemma of "Damned if they do, damned if they don't" lol. MS could of hit all the marks and still people would've found a way to turn it into a negative.

The people who focus so hard on MS' every move don't even like them.

[slate91]

Spencer hit every mark on his speech and people are still saying "UGH why did they announce it so early blllaaaaahhh" When 1) he CLEARLY states it was for developers
And 2) why would you want to get screwed into buying the one S just to announce another console next year.
People are desperate.

[jb227]

Oh please, you honestly believe that "for the devs" line? I mean, if they really wanted devs aware of the console, they'd just ship them a dev kit. But they can't do that because they don't have the hardware finalized.

So he's announcing "for the devs" to do what? Clear some space off a counter and reserve it for a Scorpio? Hold off on developing actual games on existing hardware to instead wait around for a new box? Spencer did not announce Scorpio for the devs at the most widely publicized gamer trade show....they announced it to fill a hole after their conference was spoiled & they announced it mainly to keep people from buying further into the Sony ecosystem with a Neo. Devs just need boxes, empty announcements are for the consumers.

Also, Spencer did not hit every mark on his speech....a console reveal needs to show the box, or a price, or a release date, or confirm what's in the box, or show some actual games. What did Spencer's speech even entail? Only thing I remember is '6 tflops' & 'most powerful console ever'. Seems to me the only desperate ones are the ones unwilling to question any pr line MS gives...a rational gamer would agree that the Scorpio announcement/reveal will go down as one of the worst in history. There was simply nothing to it.

[candystop]

Jb227....you're trying to hard really! Not sure why but it's obvious no matter what MS states you will attack them.

[freshslicepizza]

@jb227
"Oh please, you honestly believe that "for the devs" line? I mean, if they really wanted devs aware of the console, they'd just ship them a dev kit. But they can't do that because they don't have the hardware finalized."

developers always welcome more horsepower to work with, not sure why you think otherwise aside from your constant skeptism all things related to ms/xbox.

"So he's announcing "for the devs" to do what? Clear some space off a counter and reserve it for a Scorpio?"

to know scorpio is coming and that it will offer greater power to use for existing xbox one games to upscale them to.

"Hold off on developing actual games on existing hardware to instead wait around for a new box?"

do you have any clue what you are talking about isntead of just mashing the keyboard in anger? xbox scorpio is part of the SAME xbox family, how many times does it take for you to get that to sink in?

"Spencer did not announce Scorpio for the devs at the most widely publicized gamer trade show....they announced it to fill a hole after their conference was spoiled & they announced it mainly to keep people from buying further into the Sony ecosystem with a Neo. Devs just need boxes, empty announcements are for the consumers."

umm, sure, whatever you say.

"Also, Spencer did not hit every mark on his speech....a console reveal needs to show the box, or a price, or a release date, or confirm what's in the box, or show some actual games. What did Spencer's speech even entail? Only thing I remember is '6 tflops' & 'most powerful console ever'. Seems to me the only desperate ones are the ones unwilling to question any pr line MS gives...a rational gamer would agree that the Scorpio announcement/reveal will go down as one of the worst in history. There was simply nothing to it."

the worst in history yet it sure got your attention. you can't seem to stop talking about it and you are trying way too hard to downplay it.

[rainslacker]

@jb

With generalized specs, devs can start to put together their game plan for how to develop a game for Scorpio. Typically, finalized specs don't show up until less than a year prior. If the dev knows what to expect, they can at least plan on what they want to do with it, and even start building it, even though optimization will have to be done later.

@slate

MS didn't announce this at E3 for the devs, as Phil claims. Most devs who have access found out a few weeks before. In any case, anyone who believes this was actually for the devs would have to understand if this was MS letting devs know, that MS deserves a lot more criticism than they're getting, and a big slap in the face, because saying a system has 6TFlops means nothing to the devs.

That's why the whole statement is laughable to me. What am I going to do with 6 TFlops? I know what I can do with 32 compute units. I know what I can do with 16 texture units. I know what I can do with 64 raster operators. And the list goes on.

A TFlop is meaningless, because nowhere does it actually give the quantities of what makes up that TFlop. I can't program my tools to a flop. I can program my tools to the actual hardware that makes up that flop. I can judge the performance of those tools by knowing how fast that hardware is, and how much of it exists within the design of the chip. I can't do jack squat with a Teraflop, because I have no idea the nature of those flops.

[freshslicepizza]

i wouldn't really worry too much about the comments because a lot of them really hold no credibility. most surround the xbox losing exclusives and how the brand offers nothing. meanwhile they fail to grasp the ripple effect of their comments which means if there is now no need for an xbox where else are you going to play those games? the answer is of course the pc. which brings us to the ripple effect because now more and more will get into pc gaming (which is awesome!) but that also leaves the console market struggling to get gamers attention aside from exclusives. nintendo is barely hanging on and they have the most marketable exclusives out there. sony is also trying to hang onto their fanbase and says ps4 neo is to help those looking for more performance and not get into pc gaming.

so will pc gaming continue to thrive at the cost of the console market?

[ShadowKnight]

Yup PC gaming will continue to thrive 😊☺

[Godmars290]

They're trying to move on to the next console generation by staying in the current one. Reboot the XB1 because the media-support focused, Kinect and DRM tethered reveals hurt it so badly that even fanboys reeled from it for a time.

[Lennoxb63]

Its a box that plays games and streams video. Everything else is extra. The only thing that hurt it was always online DRM. Other than that, how can you possibly not understand what the X1 is?

[Godmars290]

If it were true that it was "just a box" they wouldn't be making such a big deal that it has 4k support. There would still only be the current XB1 and the slim would only be the slim version of the system.

And while its true that DRM was the biggest issue, inbuilt kinect support along with hardware choices impacted the console. Weighs on it every time there's a sub-par 1080p/60fps release versus it doing better on the PS4.

The belief that if Xbox can perform better is why this is happening. Why MS is technically bumping up a gen while trying to say that they aren't. Comes off as nonsense since they're also saying to effect that they wont fully utilize this new hardware to it's full extent because it's games will be playable on the original XB1.

[Lennoxb63]

Adding 4k and HDR support still doesn't make it any more than a box that plays games and streams video. The numbers in which they're doing it is irrelevant.

The scorpio isn't next gen. Sure, it will have longer legs next gen. Similar to how long the PS3 continues to get games. But the Scorpio AND Neo aren't strong enough to be next gen. Being able to play today's games at 4k with some visual improvements is not enough. Game development won't change and neither will the way games are played on the upgraded consoles. Not until next gen.

[Zediz]

It seems that whoever is desperate is the biased media trying dowplay Scorpio. Or anything that MS do ....

The author of the text only know how to write favorable articles Sony and unfavorable MS, enter the site click on the author's name to see if I'm talking about is true!

Nothing new here ...

[demonddel]

I have noticed that quite a bit on here

[Bigpappy]

I could care less what they say about the announcement,. I want that Monster as soon as I can get my hands on it.
Maybe Sony and Nintendo should get desperate too.

[vega275]

I totally agree I want this now. It's going to be a long wait for scorpio to release, and that means dealing woth a lot of trash articles and anti-MS hater like this until then.

[CaptainObvious878]

You can get it now.

Build a PC.

You'll get better performance and won't have to pay for online.

[candystop]

"You can get it now.

Build a PC.

You'll get better performance and won't have to pay for online."

Or how about letting me decide what I want and that's a Scorpio ! If you want to build a pc (or already have one built)then by all means good luck. I'm going with Scorpio along with many many others. I definitely don't see you going around saying just go with VR on pc instead of Playstation vr for better performance so why now only with Xbox lol!?

[jessionpc]

@candystop

He's just trying to help you, you're making an ignorant, thoughtless decision based on brand loyalty.

They don't have exclusives anymore, and Scorpio is still Xbox on an extremely limited console platform.

Just buy a pc, join hundreds of millions of players, forgo being forced to pay a monthly fee just to hang with your friends, and get access to all the legendary games in the industry, 10+ thousand others, all the xbox games and every other source of entertainment and better consumer usability too.

[jessionpc]

Scorpio is a year and a half away. Scorpio is no more than a mid generation display resolution increase, "refresh".

People downplay it, because a couple years after it, PS5 will drop and crush it into the fkn ground, and consumers aren't going to be so happy about paying 600+ dollars for that refresh, then be tempted by a REAL upgrade with the ps5.

It's a cock measuring contest and as long as they keep leap frogging each other now, consumers are going to suffer the most.

[Xavy]

Yes it is. Thats why they announced it so early.

[Prubar]

They announced it early so that people who buy the X1S don't feel ripped off. Now people know what's coming out so they can make an educated decision of which one to buy.

[demonddel]

Tell me why did Sony announced the Neo before they event started

[DragonDDark]

Can you call that desperate though?

[akurtz]

they didnt "announce" the psneo, house simply answered a question. an official announcement is yet to come to reveal what the neo actually is...

[Next_gen_2015]

Didnt phil Spencer say during e3 that they were announcing it now so devs would prepare for it?

[candystop]

Yes he did!

[Xavy]

And you believed him? lol

E3 is not for devs its for the gamers first of al. This was only a PR stunt, keeping gamers from bying the NEO nothing more. Please try to use your brain.

[Kiwi66]

How was it to stop people from buying the neo when very little was known about it

[Jon_Targaryen]

They tried to steal thunder from the Sony conference thinking Sony would def show off the Neo. Then realizing after the EXPO they probably blew their load too soon seeing when December comes nobody is gonna buy an Xbox now.. Faxe it MS you shouldve waited about 6 months untol you had something to show for it.

[miyamoto]

The Xbox was created with one purpose only: Destroy PlayStation.
And the Project Scorpio is no different.
With that purpose from the get go Xbox has lost from the very start of its conception.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

I think their overall goal was more complex than destroy PlayStation.

[miyamoto]

Actually it's very simple. The PS2 was so popular Bill Gates considered it as a threat to PC.
http://www.businessinsider....
and the whistle blower...
http://www.neowin.net/news/...
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qnyy...
http://ca.ign.com/articles/...
http://www.gamespot.com/for...
http://www.gamesindustry.bi...
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[Masterchief_thegoat]

@miyamoto Xbox was created to destory Sony? battle is over when ms release Xbox one 24 hour always online and not supporting used games.

[ScorpiusX]

And PlayStation purpose after Nintendo said no to their joint venture in the early 90' .
What was it purpose for, oh to destroy Nintendo cause they told them No.

[miyamoto]

LOL!
What was that?

[Chris12]

Once again you're a mug for believing everything you read. Quote 'Kempin's revelations may make great headlines and gossip, but there are those who dismiss his claims as a cynical attempt to sell his book'

If he wasn't selling a book, nor a 'pissed off ex-employee', his claims may have some substance. Keep going though bro, the MS hate is strong in you and I feel your need to express it in every article on N4G

[miyamoto]

The truth hurts, doesn't it?
And it was not just one ex-MS employee mind you. Even the creator of the Xbox loathes Microsoft's handling of the Xbox, LOL!
"Xbox just needs somebody with a brain and focus to get the product in order..."
- Nat Brown
http://www.gameskinny.com/9...
Xbox is a cancer to videogaming.

[Chris12]

Now you've completely changed the point from your original dumb statement. Corporate slaves like you are the cancer in gaming. Me, I'm happy owning all systems. Mug.

[Kribwalker]

Just as desperate as Sony with the Neo? Clickbait garbage

[Pongwater]

Sony had nothing to show regarding Neo so they didn't waste press conference time on it.

MS had nothing to show regarding Scorpio so they made a big deal about it during their press conference.

I know which of those two things seems more desperate to me.

[slate91]

Sony didnt announce it because it wouldnt shine as bright as the scorpio with weaker specs. Sony said neo wasnt coming to e3 after the scorpio specs leak. Pay attention.

[WilliamSheridan]

If Sony has nothing to show yet, and they release this year, that's a little scary!

[vega275]

@ pongwater

Here's where your theory fails.

"Sony had nothing to show regarding Neo so they didn't waste press conference time on it"

Sony didn't have anything to show when they announced the ps4 back in 2013. How is this any different?

Sony didn't want to announce the ps4 neo because they knew spec wise it would have got trashed. Especially since Andrew house and company have been talking about power all gen.

Second. To give them time to change the specs to try and match the scorpio or to get close without breaking the bank.

Sony isn't waiting for something to show off the ps4 neo's power since it will play ps4 games. Unless Sony is lying about games being played a cross both systems. Which would make it next gen.

Sony got caught with their pants down. Because they had the neo in development for a while. Maybe because they realized that the ps4 can't handle vr as it should. Not saying the ps4 can't do vr. But not as good as they would have liked.

[pyroxxx]

They had nothing to show regarding Xbox 1 either,.. except now they have 0 exclusives

[trooper_]

Vega, what nonsense are you referring to? Sony didn't announce Neo because the original PS4 is selling well. Why would they announce a new version of a console and jeopardize their lead?

[vega275]

Spectre

They have already announced the ps4 neo.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/pl...

So what nonsense are you talking about. Get your facts straight ok.

[trooper_]

Yes, they acknowledged that Neo exists, but there's no release date. They don't need to release a date for Neo if they have a considerable lead over their nearest competitor.

Sony's not the desperate company in that regard.

I see you're still bitter over that PS2 mishap.

[vega275]

@ spectre

You said they didn't announce the ps4 neo. But they did and and said they wouldn't talk about it at E3. Which proved many of the rumors about its existence.

Now you want to move the goal post to now. Bu Bu Bu they didn't announce a release date. GTFO. What you waiting for Sony to announce that secret saurce for the ps4 neo to match scorpio.

Why would I be mad about the ps2. I own one. Stop acting like you know me cause you don't kid.

[trooper_]

Wow, that salt.

Let me know when Sony released a date for the Neo. Because they sure as heck didn't announce a release date. They ACKNOWLEDGED its existence but there's no release date. Learn how to read.

I also said that they're not desperate to release Neo because unlike their nearest competitor, they're leading in sales.

Another thing, I'm well aware of your bitterness towards Sony. I can see it in your words.

[qwerty676]

That would mean neo is a desperate move for sony?

I dont see it that way, sony and microsoft just saw where the market was headed and they both want to get a 4k machine out before it becomes standard going forward.

[Sunny_D]

Some people think it will start outselling the PS4 as soon as it comes out as I've seen in some comments. Pure lunacy as if they think it will be the 2nd coming of Christ.😂

Even Eurogamer has stated "TFLOPS doesn't define a console's graphical power" especially if you don't have devs who can take advantage of it. Sorry, but complaining about games on PS4 coming out in 2017 when you'll be able to play Scorpio games fully by 2018 is quite ironic.

[qwerty676]

Not at first maybe, all depends on the price point really.

If its 499-599 it will get a first week jump with the hardcore fans then simmer down a bunch.

If they launch it at 399 I can see it outselling the older skew because it would only be $50 more expensive.

To hit that price point this holiday though and sell it at a profit/even the power would have to significantly less compared to the scorpio.

Very curious to see what Sony does.

[Sunny_D]

Yeah new hardware will always have a sales spoke for the first few weeks. Doesn't mean it's going to close a 2:1 lead anytime soon. That would be delusional. Especially when the brand doesn't have as much world recognition as the competitor.

[WilliamSheridan]

I'm going Microsoft brings consoles to where they used to sell them at a loss early on. Don't can't afford to do that, and it would be highly competitive.

[ShadowKnight]

Its not going to be $399. You were right when you said $499 or up

[demonddel]

Not one person thinks that

[WilliamSheridan]

Well, if Eurogamer said it...😛😛㈵ 9;🤔🤔🤔&# 129303;🤗🤗ԅ 79;🙃😂😂& #128514;😂

[ShadowKnight]

Agreed 😊

[Lennoxb63]

"Some people think it will start outselling the PS4 as soon as it comes out as I've seen in some comments."

It will give Xbox a sales boost, but not outsell it. I've also seen no one say this. So if someone, did its not very widespread.

"Sorry, but complaining about games on PS4 coming out in 2017 when you'll be able to play Scorpio games fully by 2018 is quite ironic."

There's no such thing as Scorpio games. The Scorpio is an Xbox One and is made for its games. It just plays them with higher performance is all.

[demonddel]

What is reasoning behind Sony move with the NEO

[akurtz]

SonyToo*

[rainslacker]

If Neo is coming this year, or early next year, then it's been in the works for a while, and I see nowhere where Sony needs to feel desperate to release a new console. If MS is 18 months away, they haven't been working on it a while, so Sony would not be in the reactionary position here, rather just making a move that they were going to do anyways.

Can you tell me where Sony should have been desperate in light of MS vs Sony sales given how well Sony is doing? Even the Scorpio, at this time, does not even pose a threat to Sony's PS4 sales in the least. If anything Neo only threatens current PS4 sales.

[demonddel]

Homie I never said neither company was desperate I asked the question if Microsoft is desperate for announcing the mighty Scorpio what is Sony reasoning for announcing the Neo but this n4g.com I should already know the answer

[Scatpants]

I don't know if it's desperate or not, but if I was in the market for a new console I'd definitely be interested in the most powerful one, especially if it's compatible with the Oculus since I already have one of those.

[SCW1982]

Get a PC bruh.

[GrubsterBeater]

@SCW

I'm assuming he already has a PC considering he has an Oculus...

I mean I hope he has a Oculus Rift capable PC if he has one already... lol

[Scatpants]

Yes I have a PC, but I also have a PS4 and Xbox1.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

If the Scorpio is desperate the NEO most certainly is a blatant cash grab. The PS5 will launch 2 years after NEO.

[demonddel]

Please tell me how you know that when the PS5 is being released

[MCTJim]

In a single word. Nope.

[vega275]

I find article like this funny. Sony has had the neo in development for awhile now. Since last year and we started hearing about it in March.
Yet MS just announced theirs at E3 and they are desperate.

Here's a question. Why would Sony need to release a ps4 neo instead of a slim model if the ps4 is already powerful and why release it so close the your vr headset release date?.

Please don't tell me "bu Bu dev's need more power" because that would mean the ps4 isn't strong enough to handle demanding games in VR.

[rainslacker]

Maybe they want to capitalize on the UHD market. Maybe Neo is really just similar to the X1S, which is basically a UHD/FDR capable console. Not really desperation, or a cash grab, as it would likely only be targeted at the 4K market....and there is a market for it, albeit small. Without knowing the specs of the Neo, can't really say what the Neo is, or why it exists.

All that doesn't really mean that MS move isn't a desperate one...although I feel the word desperate is the wrong term. Reactionary seems more appropriate...either that or they just want to move into a new gen to reset the numbers, and push their own corporate things with Windows. I also don't feel that Scorpio is being made completely in reaction to PS4's success, but rather, that MS needs a bit of parity between what is soon to become a minimum PC spec, and the consoles for game developers to not gimp the console versions too much.

[QuickdrawMcgraw]

For Xbox supporters the Scorpio is a this gen machine...Why do they feel this way...Because they need to feel there is still a chance for Xbox to finally win a console generation...And that is the only reason...The cloud couldn't put the Xbox1 over...BC couldn't put the Xbox1 over...Hopefully their Trojan Horse console can...

[BigGamersSmallTalk]

And they say the media isn't biased? Sony announced a newer and more powerful console before Microsoft and we've heard no desperation talk. Microsoft was "desperate" when they had limited edition consoles, but not Sony.
I love the hypocrisy.

[rainslacker]

Sony really has nothing to be desperate about. They are doing great this gen. MS OTOH, could really be hurt by Sony releasing a more powerful, and more capable console, as it only increases the power disadvantage that they already have, thus making the X1 even less appealing to the general consumer. It's silly to think that Sony is in any way desperate.

I really don't feel that MS is desperate either, but I feel Scorpio is being made to circumvent the commanding lead that Sony has over MS, which they won't be able to overcome with the current hardware. They are pushing the next gen, not calling it the next gen, and hope to come out ahead with the "most powerful console" tagline...which probably won't really work in their favor if they mandate legacy compliance, because that only insures that the most powerful console will never be utilized....which it won't be in the first couple years anyways given how current consoles aren't even being fully utilized yet.

[Yetter]

Man, does all of N4G leave in bubble? MS just spent 22 billion on LinkedIn. A company that has 22 billion in 'throwing around money' doesn't make desperate moves

[Lennoxb63]

They also threw a couple billion at the marijuana industry in an attempt to legalize it. Yea, MS are REAL desperate. /s

[iTechHeads]

I think so but if it makes Sony up their specs....fair game :D

[corroios]

Their gold is not to take down Sony, by this time they already know that Sony is a world apart that cant be reached with Halo/forza/Gears and PR.

In my opinion, Microsoft gold is to try and take market share from the PC gaming. They will get more money from their games that isnt coming from consoles.

[medman]

I'm interested in the Neo, and I'm interested in the Scopio. I also am curious to see what the Nintendo NX brings. I fully intend to buy the Neo and Scorpio, and may also buy the NX in 2017.....plus I game on pc. I am a freak. I have no allegiances. I just love tech. Can't get enough.

[WelkinCole]

Its not a measure to take down the PS4. After QB release early this year MS knew they have nothing left. All their big hitters have been released while Sony are now just starting to hit their full stride.

Scorpio is a fresh start for MS which is why I have been saying that Scorpio is MS next gen console.

The only reason why they are saying it is a mid gen upgrade (4.5 more power, 4 years later lol) is because they don't want to piss off existing X1 fans.

[WickedLester]

I don't think "desperate" is the right adjective to describe it. However I do think they announced it prematurely. IMO what they should have done is just announce the "S" model at E3. Then announce the existence of Scorpio around March '17 to try and steal some thunder from Nintendo and the launch of the NX. Then they could have a full blown reveal at E3 '17 and launch it fall of '17.

[Wotbot]

Not desperate, but aggressive which ended with Sony delaying the Neo reveal, the ball is now defiantly back in Sonys court.

[GoldenArcanine]

Yep, this is a desperate move from a desperate company. Microsoft's Xbox DONE is a laughable failure of a console which is rotting down in the bargain bin where it belongs and so they're trying to cover up the cracks with another unwanted failure of a machine that will also lack exclusive support and will also be a failure in the sales charts.

[ScorpiusX]

Not a desperate move at all but a move to stay competitive in a competitive field . I for one look forward to seeing this move play out .

[DillyDilly]

If Scorpio is desperate for Microsoft Neo is desperate for Sony

[Deltaguy]

yea it's desperate i think new IPs shown at E3 would have had more hype then a new console 18 months from now

[agame914]

Bout time there some negative articles about the Scorpio compared to all of the Negative neo articles

[Officialxandr]

I see it as natural evolution. Sony and Nintendo are also releasing another console. Phones and PCs have been like this for a while, makes sense that consoles adopt this as well.

[nitus10]

I don't think you can compare the mobile phone market to the PC and console markets since most people who get a mobile go on a plan although there are some who will buy a new phone outright. When the plan for the mobile expires the owner can keep it and continue paying the same or just go for a new plan with a new mobile and continue to pay aproximately the same price.

Consoles and even PC's are normally not on a plan so you have to pay for upgrades or a new device. Again like mobiles, there are some who have more money than sense and would actually pay for the latest and greatest on a yearly basis. Most people would not do this, hence comparing the mobile market to the PC and console markets is pointless.

[PistolsAtDawn]

No it's not, and I can't wait to get one.

[Ysmir6723]

@rainslacker I aggre with what you say,but i currently have more than 19 nvidia Tflops.I dont need a game to be optimized.The worst performance i have at 4k is at wither 3 ulrta 85fps,but with hairworks off and foliage to high,goes to about 100-105.It dosent matter if a console is "to the metal",when my pc has more than 10 times the performance of a ps4.i tried win 10 and dx12 at rise of tomb raider,and i got 2-3 fps increase only.The issues that WilliamSheridan wrote can be solved in 5 minutes by high school students.I have fixed more than 500 pcs and never have i seen 30-40% cpu usage,even to a computers with more than a 1000 viruses.About the ram usage,paging file set=ram*1.5,something 99% of pc users know at least 10 years now.

[Mithan]

It's no more desperate than neo

[blawren4]

I'd be willing to bet that this was in motion much longer than we realize, to complete with the the steam boxes, in case they would have taken off. It may have been shelved briefly when steam boxes haven't caught hold, but may have been revived with the interest in VR and Sony playstation neo. Everything always more complicated than we realize, which is why we don't run the business.