Microsoft: HD-DVD might be "next Betamax," switch to Blu-ray still possible

Speaking with Ars Technica, Microsoft Director of Platform Strategy Scott Henson explained that the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive would likely never be internalized into a future version of the console because "[we] don't want to charge customers $200 extra for something that may be the next Betamax." While Henson's frank remark is definitely a PR no-no (though it could easily be interpreted as a shot at Sony), it simply echoes the current state of uncertainty: No one knows which format, HD-DVD or Blu-ray, will prevail. Microsoft has clearly aligned itself and the Xbox 360 with HD-DVD, but it's left open the possibility of a Blu-ray switcheroo -- Peter Moore openly acknowledged as much during CES last year.

[power of Green]

.

[bighed03]

hd-dvd, blu-ray... just make good games.

[Shadow Flare]

Would sony even let MS use the blu-ray for the 360?

[zonetrooper5]

Sony would let MS use the Blu-Ray for the 360 as they still get money from it.

[r1000]

Whatever
hd-dvd, blu-ray... just make good games.

EXACTLY.... The stupid teenagers on this site treat these consoles like a religon... as there can only be one....

ALL I care about is games....

[TheXgamerLive]

First off, sony created betamax not MS and so it would be your wannabe blu ray that will or would go this way, second, his comment meant nothing as you make it to be. You see the HD-DVD add on is just that an "OPTIONAL" add on and not at all mandatory like your wannabe blu ray player is, third, nobody I know wants to use or waste there DVD players to watch movies on, that's why we only use it for games and so if we want an add on to play HD-DVD, we then buy it and it's an extremely inexspensive yet awesome HD-DVD player that will "NEVER" wear out our gaming system as your wannabe blu ray player will. Fourth, the comment was related to sony making you all buy/use bluray.
There are good pro and con articles that are worth a repost but "PLEASE" begin to use some common sence, and repost an article that doesn't make your self look like an idiot as this one does.
SONY and BETAMAX= The Same Company . Get It?! Your Point is Mute.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

We heard MS proclaim this over a year ago. They went with a DVD drive because it was far too early to tell which format might win out, and at that time it really didn't make sense to include the more expensive tech anyway since a vast majority of games were well under DVD-9 space limits. Furthermore MS openly said while they were siding with HD-DVD they would be in a position "should they need to" to embrace Blu-ray with a possible add-on, etc.

This is just someone posting to stir the pot.

[Monchichi025]

This comment was in no way doubting HD-DVD's future. (Read the Actual article it came from.) He was just taking about how this is an option for X-box users and not forced on them like Sony is doing.

[grifter024]

HAHA stupid tennagers taking things to far?! That happens everywhere! And you act like your not one of these so called "Stupid tennagers" because if you werent and you were a "MATURE" adult then you wouldnt be calling kids stupid in the first place dont you think?? And so what if you wanna back one console for the other? Who cares I chose the gamecube b4 the xbox and now im for xbox so what, But then again arrogant people like you dont understand if you only care about games then dont post a irrelevent post just go play if thats all u care about buh bye.

[DJ]

since it's not their format. Microsoft better offer a Blu-ray drive soon, especially with Blu-ray sales catching up and (in some cases) surpassing HD-DVD at the moment. With the PS3 popularizing the new format, it can only help Microsoft to support that format as well since they make a profit off their current add-on drive.

[DreDawgg06]

This comment is being misunderstood. Its basically a stab against Blu-Ray and Sony. They are not forcing a format that might end up like Beta max.

Most likely both formats will fail. By the time Hi-Def is mainstream enough that its broadcasted to 50% of the public. Something better will come out then both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

Microsoft would never support Blu-Ray because they would be indirectly supporting the PS3 which is stuck with Blu-Ray.

Just worry about games. If you don't know anything about marketing or industry please don't contribute your idiotic views.

[TheXgamerLive]

With the bigger and sometimes extremely bigger support for HD-DVD going on that sony needs to hurry up and offer an HD-DVD drive addon.
Seriously, again don't be an idiot. Neither company needs to offer the competitors drive.
One will win, one will lose. and, at this point DVD is still an exceptional format and the others aren't needed, the same goes for gaming. I think MS and the Xbox 360 will continue to dominate just fine w/it. End of story.

[HaKeRsCanRotINHEL]

DJ stands for Defend Japanese!

[calderra]

Microsoft AND Sony have already publicly stated their companies are moving toward downloads as a primary content delivery means.

Sony = Betting the from on something they already intend to give up soon.

Microsoft = Not investing too highly in an already old'd technology.

Which sounds smarter?

[MicroGamer]

if both companies are moving towards digital downloads as their primary means of content distribution, then why the hell did Sony start this format war in the first frickin place?? Does it make sense to dump money into promoting Blu Ray over HD-DVD if both will be obsolete in a year?? Sony won't even get back their investment to develop the technology in that time.

[DJ]

Defend Japanese? Hah, lame. As for digital distribution, it's not THE future. It's simply a relevant part of it. It's vastly easier on both consumers and providers to simply purchase physical copies of full-length titles.

It's faster and less of a hassle to buy a 30~50GB title in Blu-ray form instead of waiting 3~5 weeks to download it on a DSL line. The biggest problem of course is hard drive space. Developers can make exponentially more money per MB on downloadable content rather than full-length games.

Sony adopted Blu-ray because it's expandable to 200GB, and rest assured that Playstation 4 and 5 will have Blu-ray drives as well.

[frostbite06]

I think you can rest assured that the playstation 5 will not have a blu-ray drive.

[r1000]

HAHA stupid tennagers taking things to far?! That happens everywhere! And you act like your not one of these so called "Stupid tennagers" because if you werent and you were a "MATURE" adult then you wouldnt be calling kids stupid in the first place dont you think?? And so what if you wanna back one console for the other? Who cares I chose the gamecube b4 the xbox and now im for xbox so what, But then again arrogant people like you dont understand if you only care about games then dont post a irrelevent post just go play if thats all u care about buh bye.

I don't have to be mature to call it like i see it... if i see stupid ass teenagers... guess what i'm going to call them...

And so what if you want to back a console..yea your right...

But you guys take it on another level... there are more important things in the world then Gears of wars or Resistance...

And you don't even know me... so call me arrogant is just you being an internet tough guy... another thing the majority of the posters on site act upon..

Tell what do you think about, Global warming, Crime, Highschool drop out rate, Poverty... oh wait don't bother telling me... you might come of as being arrogant...

When I need a distraction I turn to gaming, so thats why I come to sites like this. I do look for good games, don't care what system it's on. Sony, MS, Nintendo does not pay me to be salesman for their products...

How much do they pay you?

[AzaziL]

i doubt either form of next gen dvd will take off before another more efficient and cheaper alternative is released. look how slow the sales have been, it'll be at least another few years before it becomes mainstream, especially since not everyone yet has an HDTV. with that said, there's a very good chance somthing better will already be out and can easily oust the two aging formats.

[TheMART]

Simple

Betamax

Minidisc

UMD

All Sony media products that failed being the main format or failed totally because of a few things:

- too high priced
- too much pushed
- not prefered by the mass of people

Next in line?

BluRay

Twice as expensive as HD-DVD
HD-DVD has the better quality
HD-DVD sounds familiar to the mass, having DVD last gen and a HD-TV

exit. next!

[rowdy 1]

r u kidding

[AudioRage]

im in your boat guys

[THAMMER1]

Stop being wet blankets and join 2007. Games are what is good.

[CAPS LOCK]

youur forgetting what Sony succeed in which were

-dvds( they own 1 tenth)
-dv tapes
-memory stick
-and maybe blu ray

[TheMART]

caps underlock, let me prove you wrong once again

DVD was the invention of Philips mainly driven by the CD that Philips invented

DV was invented by several companies(then other companies exploited them in different ways)

"DV is an international standard created by a consortium of 10 companies for a consumer digital video format. The companies involved were Matsushita Electric Industrial Corp (Panasonic), Sony Corp, Victor Corporation of Japan (JVC), Philips Electronics, N.V., Sanyo Electric Co. Ltd, Hitachi, Ltd., Sharp Corporation, Thompson Multimedia, Mitsubishi Electric Corporation, and Toshiba Corporation. Since then others have joined up; there are now over 60 companies in the DV consortium."

Now that's a standard, not a sole product of Sony.

Memory stick you're right another PUSH product of Sony. Mostly only supported in their own products. People were forced in expensive memory while SD and CF memory was cheap and just as good. Those are bigger selling then memory sticks.

So there we are. No not maybe BluRay if you ask me. That joins the line with Betamax, Minidisc and UMD, and also Memory stick you name. Sony will remain pushing it untill they go bankrupt

[ChickeyCantor]

you know i love my DIVX player!

[peksi]

I gotta give MS credit for that. Do what people want to do, don't set you camp anywhere you don't have to.

[addictedtogames]

lol, best post on this whole page.

hd-dvd, blu-ray... just make good games

[tk]

Before MS switches to BluRay. It is NOT twice the price.

It has more capacity, higher transfer rate. The rest is PR BS.

Sony went for HD-DVD only to undermine BluRay and the PS3. They even tried in their PR BS document to claim that HD-DVD had "more storage capacity". Talk about lying straight in your face when the facts is known.

BluRay won, the BluRay movie titles started to outsell the HD-DVD titles - as was expected. The installed base of BluRay players is now over a million thanks to the PS3 - and don't come with the lame theory that people who own PS3's don't use it for BluRay movies. When I bought my PS2 it was because I wanted a DVD player, and I decided that since the PS2 cost about the same, why not get the PS2 instead. And the same for the PS3. I will pick up a PS3 because I want a BluRay player, and because I want a PS3.

[tk]

Same stupid comments as you always make.

Now Diputs Loof... just answer straight up:

I have a movie - lets say "Spiderman 7". it is encoded in VC1 on a BluRay disk and in VC1 on a HD-DVD disk. Now - on the same playback device that support BluRay and HD-DVD - lets say a PC with both drives... which one will look better?

Answer?
They look exactly the same. And if you think they look different - then clearly - you are a troll - spewing BS and lying. No other reason. And you know it, and everyone else reading this post knows it as well. The container for your car that holds 15 liters, and the container for my car that holds 25 liters - does not make the fuel somehow "better". It is a container. Nothing more. Nothing less. BluRay holds more. And it can feed the info faster than HD-DVD. Those are the FACTS.

It is pathetic really - how the XBots reason.

They will take a smaller HD, smaller removable medium, add on a bigger one - but still smaller than the PS3 - and then beat on their chest, howl at the moon - and proclaim that smaller and slower is somehow "better".

Strange folk.

[TheMART]

I'll proof you talking BS like for example caps underlock also. Here we go, enjoy the show:

First of this:

"HD scaling issues; Sony can’t help
Posted in PS3, Business, Hardware by Rossko UK on November 25th, 2006 at 14:19
There were reports last week that the PS3 has had some problems with scaling HD content. Blu-Ray movies would only work in 1080p, and look rubbish in all other aspects, or even get reduced to 480p."

NICE when you have a BR player and like most don't own a 1080p tv you'll get 480p. Damn that's last gen TV!

The 360 can scale anything and can output anything native. 720p, 1080i, 1080p native

Another comment:

"Many games made for 1080p won’t scale properly to 1080i, and sometimes 720p. I’m having a huge issue with Blu-Ray movies. It shows as 1080i (even though I have my HDTV setup as 720p in the Media Bar), but it’s very grainy and looks like standard DVD."

http://www.playstatic.com/n...

http://news.digitaltrends.c...

By the way, discs might completely be something from the past if you watch the HD movie download/stream service on the 360 XBL

http://xbox360.ign.com/arti...

These 3 reviews, all in favour of the HD-DVD

http://www.highdefdigest.co...

360 HD-DVD compared to PS3 with BR, the 360 with HD-DVD is the clear winner:

"Overall this test was to see what next gen game system player is superior, and based on these tests, I would have to say that the 360 add on is the clear winner. Movies on the Blu Ray do look great, but with color levels that are more even allowing for greater levels of clarity, HD DVD just looks better, even over component cables."

http://www.gamescentral.com...

http://forums.maxconsole.ne...

You got pwned there mate. You only talk giving no facts.

I've proven here with lots of info that the 360 HD-DVD add on outperforms the PS3 BR. Even though the PS3 has HDMI, the 360 with VGA or component beat the hell out of it.

Imagine when MS releases the HDMI cable pack for the 360. Pwned even more

[tk]

You just prove your inability to give a straight answer....

Now let me type slowly, as it is clear that you cannot read quickly...

QUESTION A
1) I have a PC.
2) Attached to the PC I have a HD-DVD drive.
3) Also attached is a BluRay drive
4) I have two disks. One BluRay, one HD-DVD. Both have the same movie: Spiderman 7, encoded in VC1.

So... tell me, which one of the two will give the best output? The HD-DVD disk, or the BluRay disk?

ANSWER
They will be EXACTLY the SAME.

Now your comments is the very old technique of trying to introduce arguments that is not part of the question to simply try and confuse the issue and to not give the straight answer. Caught out.

QUESTION B:
1) Which one has the greater storage capacity?
BR / HD-DVD
2) Which one has the greater transfer speed? BR / HD-DVD

ANSWER
For both:BluRay

Now, if you disagree with this simple questions, please state the FACTS. I know for immature people, ambush marketers etc, it is very very difficult to answer straight up without trying to spin something to make it appear as if they are answering, but actually avoiding the answer. So please, everyone is watching now - just give the simple answer to these the above...

[TheMART]

you have only one movie. That proves nothing. See the links above for real comparing.

HD-DVD is better in all cases. I don't base stuff on one thing and especially not done by you. I prefer independent sources that have more to compare then one movie.

Furthermore. Let's break down the size of the disc. BR has 50 GB. HD-DVD on the other side is already stated to run up to 3 layers of 15 GB each. 2 layers is 30 GB, 3 layers 45 GB. Seems close enough to me.

For the rest all that matters to people and especially the mass that buys stuff:

PRICE

BluRay stand alones cost double HD-DVD ones.
If you say BR/HD-DVD have the same quality, then why would you spend double the amount of money? You should ask yourself that question. It might be a few die hard PC users that say they need to store that 5 GB extra.

How much more does a BR disc cost compared to a HD-DVD one?

We haven't even been talking about all the extra options HD-DVD adds to movies and BR doesn't. But well.

Straight questions are only answered if they make sense. Your post don't state the overview on the battle in next gen drives. The links above do.

And if BR is that fast, why do many PS3 games then need to be stored for some data on the HDD? To speed up the freaking slow loading times... That's sad. I'd rather have a DL-DVD for games and a HD-DVD add-on only for movies. Which load fast enough to have the best experience on HD movies. For that it doesn't matter if it's faster then BR, because BR obviously slows the PS3 down that much they need to store parts of their games on the HDD

[tk]

Still cannot give a simple answer eh?

Still trying to confuse the issue eh?

2 layer BD is 50GB
2 Layer HD-DVD is 30 GB
Sneaky of you trying to compare 2 layer with 3 layer to attempt to show "only 5GB" difference.

Your comparisons are related to the equipment doing the playback - not the storage medium itself. Just admit it - you don't want to do the simple comparison because you know you will have to admit to BluRay being superior.

So lets try again:

The media (HD-DVD & BluRay) are containers for storing digital data. Now, if we compare the fuel tanks of our car, and you want to bring the performance of the engines into the equation, then it is not a comparison of the storage tanks anymore is it? So, as we would compare storage tanks, let us again try to compare the media.

BluRay = bigger storage (Yes or No)
BluRay = bigger transfer rate (Yes or No)

Simple really.

OK - now, without going into details of the playback equipment - because - if I have a bad playback device - then that is not a fair reflection of the storage medium is it?

So let us take your equipment of choice.

I have a XB360.
Attached to the XB360 I have a HD-DVD drive
I also have attached a BluRay drive.

Now, the movie on both the drives is encoded in VC1.

So - with the same output configuration - tell me simply - with which one will the XB360 give a better image?
ANSWER:
Simple - EXACTLY the Same.

OK - now secondly - let us assume the standard HD-DVD and BluRay drives can both be used for games. Now keep in mind that the BluRay transfer rate is higher (I know you would like to ignore this) - which load time on the XB360 will be better?
ANSWER:
The BluRay drive

Yippee - we have a winner

OK
Now - with the standard drives, with which one will the XB360 be able to store more content per drive - meaning - more space for extra large high deff textures?

ANSWER:
BluRay.

Owned The MART. Owned Pwned Owned^2 Pwned^6

Just admit it TheMART. You are painted in the corner now. No escaping anymore. Owned Pwned etc etc etc

[grifter024]

I was reading all your posts and I found out the only real defence you have to br is capacity. That is all you brought up capacity,capicity,capicity!!! I mean like themart said most "CASUAL CONSUMERS" wont even understand what 2layer or 3layer means they just want the pretty picture!! So when they see br and hddvd side by side they will probably go for hddvd since its priced cheaper dont you think? I mean would you pay more for the same thing like you say? And you dont even go into the picture detail which one looks better because hddvd is getting better reviews then blueray as we speak right now. But all you kept saying is capicity ,capicity! Ok so the hddvd doesnt have as much space but it can layer it self so it can have the same space as a blue ray disk,so really there the same in that area. Its ok if you love blueray and hate hddvd but when you put down a product thats beating br it makes you kinda sad when you dont see the whole picture. But hey its not my place on where you spend your money or not so its really preference. The only thing br has going for itself is studios, it kinda sucks that we dont have fifth element on hddvd or other top titles but hopefully soon .

[MicroGamer]

Blu Ray stores it's data close to the surface of the disc while HD-DVD stores it further into the disc. This makes Blu Ray discs more susceptible to damage from scratches, and since the data is encoded closer to the surface of the disc, forget using a disc doctor on a Blu Ray disc or you'll completely destroy it.

[tk]

What I am saying is simply - the PR BS about image quality on HD-DVD being "better" is stupid. The storage medium does not make the image better.

HD-DVD is good enough. I am not disputing that. It is slower than BluRay, it has less capacity - that is a FACT - but it still is competitive, and good enough. I don't really buy the faster transfer rate - because we saw DVD drives becoming faster and faster - so that is just a function of the particular drive, not he storage medium.

What is a big threat to HD-DVD, is that the PS3 comes standard with BluRay, and that boosts the installed base so much, that HD-DVD needs a similar opportunity - and that opportunity is MS XB360. If MS stays cautious - and make comments that they are not about to put a drive in that can be the next Betamax - that sort of closes the door of opportunity that HD-DVD really really need in its struggle against BluRay.

The other threat to HD-DVD, is that BluRay seems to be getting the most content. The consumers will go where the content is, and at the moment the momentum is with BluRay.

So to summarize - the PS3 standard BluRay drive and studio support for BluRay is a very real problem for HD-DVD. They need MS support, and they need it now, before the momentum renders the HD-DVD format obsolete.

HD-DVD needs to get more studio support, and having a standard HD-DVD in the XB360 - as the XB360 seems to be selling a ton at the moment might just be the incentive that the studios need.

I support PS3 and BluRay - that much is obvious. What I am trying to tell you - that what I view as the biggest threat against eventual PS3 / BluRay dominance due to this combo, is a XB360 / HD-DVD combo - which would result in more studio support. I would not like to see this happening, as I don't like MS. I would be very happy if they bury their heads and not make HD-DVD standard with the XB360. This will just lead to the PS3 and BluRay getting a much stronger position in the market.

[Cherchez La Ghost]

Blu-Ray most wanted list...

Shooter
Transformers
Smokin' Aces
Iron Man
Beowulf
Matrix Trilogy
Undisputed 1 & 2
Running Scared
Snatch