By excluding and demeaning players and press who don't hit an arbitrary skill level, "gamers" are limiting the audience and potential of videogames.
good. I don't want "games" to be taken seriously :D
says the noob, Git Gud, son !! /joking
I usually remove the "git gud" tools from my friends list. Not sure what circles you run with, but not me. I play for me. I don't give a shit what those jobless morons think.
Ha! Whenever my friends and I get demolished in a game, we yell out "Unemployment!"
Because thats so much better. Classic gamer mentality, "Everyone worse than me is a noob, anyone better than me has no life"
Hahaha this reminds me of a meme i saw: Video game difficultly should be 1. Full time job 2. Part time job. 3. Unemployed.
It's funny though... That certain people in employment which consists of reviewing games are awful at their job.
I respect those that don't have the skill to play games on the hardest settings. However , some games like DarkSouls require a standard difficulty level to make the game a good experience. Having a diffierent difficulty settings can make the online experience alot more difficult to manage. Those who tell other to "get good" are disrespectful however some games need a standard difficulty level to function properly.
This argument is tiring. If you think a lower difficulty takes away from the game... you simply don't use it. Play the regular difficulty. If you think it affects online, make easy mode offline only. You can still play the game how you always have and it won't affect you a single bit.
DarkSouls wouldn't work with multiple difficulty's. Plus the game already has multiple levels of difficulty. Its called new game plus. Another example of a game that wouldn't work well with multiple difficulty settings is The Witness. Want easy mode with that game? Just use a walkthrough. Problem solved.
Yes, it would work just fine. Like I said, why do you care? It wouldn't affect you.
They are all afraid you that you might devalue the merit of their "Beat Dark Souls" title they put on their resume when they are applying for a job. @SharnOfTheDEAD, I have been golfing for 20 yrs, when I was a young kid learning to play it was vital to go to starter courses or golfing on off peak hours so I could take 2nd and 3rd shots so I could immediately make corrections after a bad one. Also I would sneak onto and play on some holes alone before dark next to where I lived so I could practice shots and situations. And that's not counting time spent on the range or playing chip and putts. Point is if I had to learn how to play only through full 18 hole courses playing only 1 ball I would have very likely given up and never bothered to try again.
Wahhhh i need an easy mode... You play Tetris with slo mo? Some games are supposed to provide a challenge, whats the point of playing? Would you play golf if every ball you hit was a hole in one?
You realize your Tetris example doesn't make sense because it does have slow mode? And to answer your question, no I don't play it in slow mode. But it is there for the less skilled. It doesn't harm me one bit.
The Darksouls series is clever enough to have their difficulty setting baked into the various play-styles. You'll have an easier time as a new player using ranged spells and weapons compared to the slower moving massive ones. Trouble is many players don't really enjoy a ranged play-style, or feel pressured to use "the real weapons" other players are using before learning the game. It's not even a "get good" thing, so much as players imposing social stigma by saying "The only way to be taken seriously as a player is to use Weapons X,Y, or Z and if you can't you're just a terrible player."
I played alot of From Software's games. The games difficulty depends on the players ability to learn from their encounters. Once you figure out the correct strategy the game becomes alot easier. Thats the main reason why it's so rewarding because the game requires you to think to solve the issues that you have with it. Plus theres always the option of farming souls and upgrading items to make the game easier. That's something that I did multiple times throughout my playthroughs.
@MasterCornholio My introduction to From Software was their Armored Core series--one of the least accessible games anyone could ever play. Could you learn the missions and fights? Sure. But with cheap Op-I AI opponents, having to unlock more parts as you go, and having to marry those parts into a rather intimidating customization system, it was like tossing yourself off a sheer rock face. Learning patterns, systems, and methods for given tasks is inherent in any game you play. Experience and repetition brings mastery. What I was bring into focus was Darksouls being accessible by allowing certain play styles more forgiveness compared to others. At the end of the day, difficulty is about player forgiveness and allowing accessibility. Darksouls would not have the fanbase it does without this accessibility and allowing players to succeed and learn via their own abilities and tastes.
I don't think that all games are meant for all people. I respect that at least the dev feels that the difficulty should be at a certain level, and won't criticize them for it. I don't really respect the people that act like other people are inferior or unworthy to play a game because they don't care enough to die 1000 times while trying to have fun, or aren't as adept at picking up complicated controls as some of the more hard core gamers are. Treating others like they aren't good enough isn't a good way to get people into gaming, because the average person prefers to go out and find things they're good at to pass their time. As far as Dark Souls, it won't break the game to make it easier for some people. It would be easy enough to filter online to difficulty or experience levels within the game itself. Lower difficulties means other people can enjoy, instead of elitist feeling validated for being the only one's that can enjoy it.
So if a non-musician was reviewing a new musical instrument in a musicians magazine, and was playing it badly, they wouldn't get ridiculed for it? This isn't limited to a gaming mentality. Pick any hobby
Eh. Musicianship is a tool of expression and an art of discipline that demands your engagement and input. It's productive, emotive and is a great way of meeting fascinating, interesting people in the real world. Learning to improvise in an Allan Holdsworth song is such a different talent to being able to come first in your BF 4 matches. The latter is worthless in comparison to true life achievement - which leads me to completely agree with the author. Gaming, in my eyes, has "fun" in its quintessence. It's a passive pastime, there is no real active creativity or innovation going on. Plus, being good at gaming is something that people, by and large, don't really respect; you sat on your arse twiddling a controller by virtue of a false reality, well done. Any moron can get good at a game if they play it enough, ipso facto: being "good" at videogames is nothing to be proud of. So, I don't think it's imperative that a reviewer, or gamer is all that good, as it is simply not the object... Just enjoy yourself. Videogaming is like watching TV, although engaging and an effective vessel in which to tell a story, it doesn't enrich you as a human being, or benefit others. But it doesn't have to be; to me it's like a mental decompression, a cathartic release. Now, creating a game -- that's another story. I'm merely talking about the act of playing.
The problem with your statement is that you are implying that to be good at playing an instrument you must be a natural, you have to learn to be good at an instrument, same as gaming and people may not respect a random gamer being good, but the pros are definitely respected, watch a professional gamer play and tell me any moron can be that good, also most people don't expect the reviewer to be a god, they expect them to at least be decent
No, you don't, but I think to really become a great player you must learn how to express yourself, which demands creative active input - think of Guthrie Govan vs.Jason Richardson ; the first is immensely talented, creative and spontaneous - a master of improvisation and most styles ; the other is the product of HOURS of practicing to a metronome, but sounds like a robot, and his compositions are just bland. Gamers fall into the second category. It's like someone who can solve a rubiks cube in 10 seconds. It's just a mechanical process of muscle memory. No passion, no craft, no real talent.
You can listen to music and give a review on it. Same for movies, books, dances, etc. Gaming is the only artistic medium that demands something of its audience, which inherently limits it, even more so when the community demeans people trying to figure out how to use a strange controller with 18 buttons on it.
You know what I don't take seriously? Reviewers that can't play games. Your opinion means absolutely nothing. Git Gud.
Bullshit. There are plenty of reviewers and gamers in general that aren't good at all games. You expect a reviewer to, somehow, be an expert at all sports games, racing games, simulators, shooters, platformers, etc? Give me a break! They're only human and only have so much time to devote towards certain genres. Git Smart. @SharnOfTheDEAD So a Ford mechanic can work and fix ANY vehicle? Please. There's literally a SHIT ton of genres and it would be absolutely STUPID to think that a game reviewer should magically somehow be efficient with all game types all the time. Just because someone is a game reviewer doesn't mean they're going to be some master level gamer at every game ever made. The mentality of some of you people is scary sometimes. It's like a complete lack of common sense.
No, I expect a reviewer to be decent and not complete utter shit. I'm not talking about everyday gamers, I'm talking about a person that has THE FUCKING JOB of critiquing features and mechanics of a game. Their opinion is null and void.
You do realise that reveiwers use to be good in games. much like there was a time when gamespot employees knew about games. That time is gone. We have too many wanna be journalists using gaming sites as jump off for talking points from their garbage sociology class, to move onto something else.
Yeah imagine being paid to do work that you can't do.
@surt Yeah, there was a time when the press was the only one helping you beat a level. I'm well aware that they are no longer relevant in an instant access society. That's a shame though isn't it? Trying to be relevant in the guise of "discrimination"? That would be funny if it wasn't how most of our society operated now. Fabricated outrage being the beacon of hope to unify us.
Oh geez.. a bleeding heart. Lol
@surt Me? Lmao hardly.
Elitist mentality is much better than whining casual mentality.
No, it's not. I'd rather someone whine then listen to the ravings of some egomaniac who thinks they're better than everyone else.
I would rather hear neither. If you don't play that genre then don't do a review. The sports games I want are skate 4 and dangerous golf, my opinion means dick on madden or nhl. I suck at those games. I would ask my friend who does play madden, nba, nhl, Fifa and the rest. The only egomaniacs are the people whining about a game they think is better than all of the others. When in fact it's not.
Elitist mentality I rarely find appealing. Whining casual mentality I can understand so long as it's just requesting something that the may want without taking it to extremes. The fact that the people are casuals, probably means they aren't often taking it to extremes.
So cater the game to more casuals? No. Get better at the game. The "but it's just a game" doesn't fly. Golf is also a game. So is chess. And in both you would be told to wait for it.... get good. Stop whining.
Golf games have difficulty levels as do chess games. Making an easy mode for Dark Souls would have zero effect on you and the way you want to play the game. Get over it. Maybe some people would like to explore the world and lore? Ever think of that? But nope! Can't have that because it would hurt Surt's feelings because it has no effect on him! Boohoo. Stop whining.
If you just want lore and exploring, then read the wiki, if you want the full experience, play the game. You can't fully appreciate Michelangelo's artwork looking at a hacked Statue of David
Because it doesn't help the gaming community. Anymore then the Nintendo wii brought "gamers" into the ps4 or xbox or even nintendo. Majority of those that brought that fluff didn't continue with other games. Content with casual fluff as in phone games, which some how I believe you would consider core gamers. You seem to have this illusion that everything inclusive is good. Or everything should be inclusive. But fail to see why these communities that take their hobbies as serious as investments are also good. You don't lower the bar to let more in. And in a game like Darksouls where it's prime hailing point is that few can pass it's trenches, what your implying would effect the game in a bad way. Keep playing at your pace and eventually you will get good. Stop asking for easier way. Learn through the hard way to make it easy for yourself.
Exactly anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand good business. Having said different separate difficulty would not affect anyone in the slightest other than allow others to play. Morons who say it break the game or ruin the experience are idiots they can still have normal mode just have an easy version not hard.
Games are taking seriously by the gamers themselves. This whole article comes off as a plea for the casuals. Games are also taken seriously cause they also for many a HOBBY. And treated as such. Writer never watches sports? Also note that Polygon is not treated seriously cause its base writers appear to have just come off of a sociology class high. In other games like golf or chess you would be expected to excel. I read this like the person writing would be someone who sees nothing wrong in participation trophys. You can focus on games all you want, but its everywhere. in every hobby. And if being more inclusive means adding more games than I'm willing to see nothing wrong in that, but not if it also goes in hand with games like Darksouls adding a EASY mode. Get good.
Grow up lol.
You do the same. Idealists serve no real purpose.
The Polygon editor does "struggle in certain points", he/she demonstrates a complete lack of experience moving in a 3d videogame. Do defend them.
Who the hell takes Games seriously?? Look up "Fun".. you'll thank me for it.
Yeah... golf players don't take their games seriously. Hobbies no matter what, are taking serious by those that view it as that.
I take my passion for gaming and the hobby itself seriously. Take my job in development seriously. I do play the games for fun though. I'll bother with the more serious stuff when I'm not playing.:)
who takes games seriously....the gamers who love or make a living off gaming. I can't take golf serious... you hit a tiny ball with a club at a hole a mile away... do you think a professional golfer like Woods takes golf seriously, you bet your F"^"67king A"£$^6 he does! should the standards he plays be lowered just because I don't take it serious? If it's just a bit of fun for you, great, have fun. the fun I get from the game is beating the crap out of other people. the more challenging the other person is the more statisfying and fun i get out of it. how do i get to a point I can beat the crap out of other people, by getting gud!
The way I look at it: Those who say "git gud" should instead be more understanding that different people view challenge in different ways. Some people have high anxiety, and struggle with difficult games on an emotional level. Some don't have certain skills. Don't act elitist; be understanding of their predicament. You're just stroking your own ego. But at the same time, I believe all game developers should be able to make their games the way they want, with us consumers merely making the choice of whether or not to buy them. No developer should be told to include difficulty options "out of principle" and ridiculed if they don't, or told to include a wealth of options for all players because "options only makes things better," which is a sentiment that I personally disagree with. Project Cars' campaign had options for everything, difficulty on a slider, all events can be played in any order, all cars unlocked from the start, and I HATED it. (I like multi-player though) Dirt Rally is much more restrictive and has a more traditional progression system, you are forced to buy cars with race winnings to use them in campaign, and I LOVE it. Different strokes for different folks. Not every game will appeal to every player, and developers should only be restricted by their own artistic vision.
Anxiety at a virtual environment? Staring at a screen? Come on, even I have high anxiety and I find that pretty ridiculous.
I play new on-line games all the time, which I suck badly at.... However, I did reach the uk finals at EGX for mk a few years back. Give me a on-line FPS and I'm sure to come last on the score board. I've never had a bad word said to me on-line, only ever people trying to help me out. I do generally get better at games but by the time I do, I've moved on too a new game. I got right stuck during my first time on mars and spent hours trying to find a red access card, which I later realized, I didn't need or exist as a computer adjacent to the door had to be pressed. A moment(s) of pure thickness..... What I'm getting at is you wouldn't employ me to showcase the game get a professional in.
Not every game has to be for everyone. People need to get over it. The universe doesn't cycle around them and their abilities. If a person creates a crossword puzzle to difficult for you, do you email the guy who wrote and and ask him to dumb down the words? No. And if you did it shows how absolutely dumb our society is getting. Smart people have to lower their standards instead of people raising theirs. Foolishness
Some people just want things easier rather then get better and then it be eaiser. That goes with games, work and other shit.
Always wanting to take the easy way out.
To me, a developer has every right to make a game however they please, and if that means not being inclusive of a more casual gamer, then so be it. I'm not going to call them out for it because it's their game, and their own decision. I don't like when people get all elitist and act like others aren't allowed to enjoy something because they're not good enough though. I don't mind people encouraging those people to be better without all the ego and elitism attached, because I think that actually promotes people to try and be better without belittling what abilities they may have. People way too often assume that everyone plays games the same way, or has played them for as long, or even understands why a game is the way it is. But what happens when people put these people down in such a hostile way, is that people move away from gaming, and gamers, and may feel ostracized because they feel they can't be part of the community. More casual players may not understand all the nuances of why things are the way they are, and people should just take more care in how they encourage others...or actually try to encourage them instead of just treating them like noobs. We were all noobs once, and I'm sure we didn't like it when people would say the same things to us. @Surt Yes, some people do. They have a right to ask. Other people shouldn't be so hostile when they ask. Devs will decide if they want to listen to these people, its no gamers place to really decide if a person is worthy enough to play a particular game. Not everyone is looking for the same experience from games. Some people just want to plop down and have fun. Hard games may not be for them, and they should look elsewhere and not demand anything, but all these elitist could stand to take a step back and realize no one is asking for them to change anything that will affect those that want harder games no matter how much people try to say it will ruin their own experience or the experience of the game itself...because only the developer can decide that.
like you and many of the other comments point out.... the real truth behind this issue isn't just the game or gamers, this is a bigger issue with our current society in general. everyone now has the right to everything and it should be given to them on a plate with a silver spoon. if you are incapable of working hard to achieve something, it's not your fault it's everyone elses fault and they owe it to you to give you whatever you want because it's not your fault you are too lazy or simply don't have the means to get that thing. why should I have to practice at anything for hrs and hrs or day after day to get good. the thing should just be made available for me because I want it, end of!
No gamer would of had an issue with this if the video hadn't come from Polygon. Unfortunately for Polygon, they've proven they have no ethics and care nothing for gamers or the industry other than trying to completely reshape it to fit their BS agenda. In fact they actively try and tear gamers down. Gamers aren't buying the BS they are selling any longer. So when Polygon uploads a video of them playing DOOM like a 3 year old, gamers, RIGHTFULLY, are gonna have questions. They're gonna point to all the ethical failures Polygon has committed and tie the two together. This isn't anything to do with "git gud" and it's everything to do with the BS spewing from sites like Polygon and Kotaku that gamers are no longer putting up with.
What a stupid article. If you want games to be taken seriously then people should accept the medium for what it is and git gud. Start taking it seriously. Accept games on their terms. That's what people do with art. There needs to be more games like Doom and dark souls that focus on skill and fun. Nothing wrong with that. Some people are just not going to be as good as others. If you don't like it there are already plenty games like assassins creed and cod where the games have an incredibly low skill ceiling.
Pardon me for holding the members of video game journalism to some degeee of standards.
And the author of this article is why nobody takes journalism seriously.
In other words, people who just wanna take the easy out don't take games seriously, because the games won't lower their standards to accommodate them. So instead of playing games with a lower entry bar which are plenty, they rather spend all their time bitching about the handful of games that require some skills on their part.
lol sad attempt yo damage control the FACT a person works in an industry there not qualified to be in. stick to your walking sims and leave the real gaming to us nerds.
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