How Microsoft spent $1 billion on a simple mistake with its best game console

Microsoft spent over $1 billion fixing the "Red Ring of Death" mistake with its Xbox 360 game console. This is how it happened.

[mochachino]

They should have spent more and implemented a no lemon policy. After so many bad refurbs millions probably lost interest in the xbox brand which will cost them more than a billion in the long run and had a major impact on what people bought this gen. Five of six of my friends had to exchange their 360 at least once and had at least 2 broken consoles, they all switched over to PS3 towards the end of last gen and now all bought PS4s this gen without even considering xb1.

[Shubhendu_Singh]

People only says it was the 2013 E3 that did it for XB1. But there were many other factors involved (like the one you mentioned) and the support PS3 saw at its end life.

Despite having great games and sales, X360 probably didn't muster much profit for MS. Well atleast XB1 is doing more profit than 360 did just because of that.

[RosweeSon]

Yeah ps+ were truly smashing it at the time but I think the awful reveal really hurt them and not only that I know myself had had an Xbox 360 for over 9 years I wanted a change and a lot of my friends don't like Microsofts ways. We all used to get a lot of problems with automatic renewals and not being able to get your card details off your account, thankfully this has now changed but a lot of my friends got annoying by Microsofts lack of a personal approach. We're just numbers and paying members to them.

[CrazedFiend]

The 360 didn't really have as great of unique sales as they'd like you to believe if you consider how many people actually bought two, three, even more boxes because of this issue. I'm sure most of us know people who had bought multiple boxes because of that. The number of unique consumers was far less than their sales numbers showed.

[choujij]

While I can't speak for others, for me yes, this design flaw left a bad taste in my mouth.

In a nutshell, the GPU simply lacked inadequate cooling for the hardware's design. The "normal" operating temperatures caused the lead-free solder under the GPU to dry-out/crack, thus causing a disconnect. The x-clamp design which mounted the pathetically small heat-sink, also assisted in premature failure. Their initial bandaid fix was to create an extension to the heat sink, which did very little to reduce the GPU's operating temperature. On top of that, the fans cove mostly pulled air through the CPU's heatsink. Just a bad design overall.

My launch day 360 died 11 months after purchase. I added flux to the solder under the GPU, reheated (reflowed) the GPU, removed the x-clamps and bolted down the heatsink. On top of that, I installed a divider in the cove between the two fans, which forced the one fan to exclusively pull air through the GPU's heatsink and sealed the whole perimeter of the cove, so all air being ejected was pulled through the heat sinks. Since my repair, that 360 still works to this day, and was often played in very warm temperatures. It's seen easily 4-5 times the use it did prior to the repair.

Being that this was indeed a design flaw causing widespread failures, the machines should have been recalled.

[babadivad]

Crazed fiend

I remember going through more than a couple PS2s and 2 PS3s. Had 2 Xbox 360s as well. PS2 was my most failure prone console by far tho.

[RosweeSon]

Yeah I upgraded myself once or twice but also had failures they were great consoles just a shame tho early ones were so unreliable. What I never really understood was why build a feature into your console to basically tell you it's broken and will not work?... A better feature would have been something like an Anti-Stall on a car but an anti-fail make the console more reliable and stop it from failing rather than worrying about being able to tell us when it has failed. Couldn't see Nintendo ever doing a feature like this as it would help about 5 people as majority of their hardware is very durable. Specially the older stuff. Just an odd feature I thought for Xbox 360 RROD? Should have just taken it out and spent the money making the innards more durable.

[VJGenova]

This certainly factored into why i passed on xbox1. However, I also had a ps2 and ps3 fail on me. But, I had the red ring three times ... that is a bit worse i would say. My NES is still kicking!

[rainslacker]

I used to repair PS1's and PS2's so I was well aware of the problems they had. However, even knowing that, it never turned me off the brand, because I knew that electronics of this nature do fail at times. I never owned a 360, although almost brought one at launch. I feel MS learned their lesson here, and wasn't hesitant to get an X1 since later 360's were reliable within tolerable limits. I didn't buy one day one, but even if I had I doubt I would have worried about the failure rate, but had I had a faulty 360, I probably wouldn't have supported them this go around.

[game4funz]

I'm glad they spent money on their mistakes. Better then other companies not spending any money for their faulty hardware.

[rainslacker]

It probably didn't help them this gen to be honest. It's not like people didn't remember, and they most certainly were reminded in early console war discussions for this gen.

Then there was the dropping of 1st party support to focus on Kinect the last couple years of 360's life.

Then the lack of a wider variety of 1st party exclusives.

Then the whole TV/sports thing probably just drove the final nail in the coffin for a lot of people who may have considered that MS may have gotten it's act together, with the DRM policies just making it so those people wanted to be the ones to throw dirt on it's grave.

You can only annoy and piss people off so much before they stop forgiving, and I think MS may have gotten a lot of that due to last gen with RROD, and added to it with the other issues, and made a ton of new pissed off people with the DRM.

If you really look at this generation, it seems that since Phil took over, it's more about making a positive reputation for the Xbox brand over everything else. It's good at least that he understands that positive brand comes from delivering a quality product, and giving gamers what they want. I just hope that MS proper can deliver more than the have done so far to help him improve the image of the brand.

These things take time though, but I've been pretty impressed with what they're doing, although as it is now, I have no reason to own the console, and QB was a bit of a let down for me. So we'll see what happens going forward.

[Lonnie18]

I keep seeing all these articles about the old 360...guess to honest there's not much going on with the X1 at the moment anyway!

[RosweeSon]

That's basically what it is yeah as apart from Gears 4 now only major games exclusive wise are all the old BC Xbox 360 games, great to have the option but where's the new games for the new generation.

[Shubhendu_Singh]

The articles are emerging because MS stopped production of Xbox 360 this year.

[Hold_It]

I mean, I keep seeing shit talking for the Xbox One in about every article, so I guess it's safe to assume there's not much going on for PS4.

[DigitalRaptor]

Your assumption is more than egregious. The XB1 assumption is not ill-founded.

[Wallstreet37]

Nothing much going on except maybe the release of the most anticipated game of all year and one that early previewers are already stating might be GOTG lol and has once again set the benchmark for graphics on consoles and took that mantle from DriveClub and The Order lol

Yeah nothing much :)

[remixx116]

Wallstreet bingo my dude for a sec I miss read your comment..

[rainslacker]

Any R&C talk a couple weeks ago was mostly supplanted by the Neo rumors....and certainly enough Neo rumors to say that something MIGHT be going on.

Otherwise, most games, even UC4, are hardly getting any notice nowadays. I've seen Nioh articles pretty barren, and that's likely to be an anticipated title. However, I do blame the new layout of N4G for a lot of it, since most articles aren't getting any heat anymore.

[Godmars290]

Xbox fans want the brand to be remembered as being iconic and leading its gen despite instances like RROD and it having a shrinking sales gap against the PS3.

[remixx116]

Or the horrid and barren last 3 years of its life cycle.

[italiangamer]

To think that MS counted refurbished 360s as new consoles sold...millions and millions of inflated sales. Typical of them just to boost their numbers, like todays 2 gazillion zombies killed in Dead Rising 3 and 2.8 quadrillion 3D puddles splashed in Forza 6 lol

[RosweeSon]

Prob why we don't get numbers from them anymore and why I said they'll never get anywhere near to 50 million this generation.

[rainslacker]

Funny thing is, active users would be a better metric of success last gen given the factors involved. Unfortunately, those numbers are going to be obfuscated with multiple devices, making even more useless than sales numbers.

[Gol3m]

The fact someone can have multiple accounts on the same hardware doesn't help either. I could open 6 accounts to boost user data

[DigitalRaptor]

I stated a few months ago that MS would be lucky sell more than 50 million XB1 units this gen, and current (at least last revealed or outed) figures back this up. What you are saying adds up because by the end of this gen, MS will be ~30 million down compared to last-gen and we all know that the massive failure rate led to repeat purchases/refurb distribution which would enter the many millions.

The reality is that the Xbox brand is not as popular as people believe.

[freshslicepizza]

then why are you talking it about it so much? it must be very popuar in your eyes because you seem to have so much interest in it. and let's not even get into this myth the xbox 360 sales were ballooned because of the rrod issues. not when software sales matched the ps3. let me guess, everyone who bought a new xbox 360 also bought the same games again.

everything you say about the xbox brand is always dramatized to make it appear irrelevant yet for some weird reason you don't share the same pessimism towards nintendo. must be because microsoft is a more direct competitor to sony so you feel the need to constantly dissect everything about them in the most negative way possible.

itos also well known sony lost a major portion of their domination last generation but are back on top. meaning not everyone is as loyal as you.

[CaptainObvious878]

@ moldybread

Following that logic feminism would be very popular in my eyes because I talk about it so much. However, nothing could be further from the truth.

[DigitalRaptor]

LMAO Moldybread!

By that logic, because one person talks about something a lot, makes it popular. I have some really obvious news for you (but maybe not so obvious to you). I'm allowed to talk about whatever and whoever I want to in an industry I care about. You don't have to get salty and personal about it.

The fact that you are calling me out to stop talking about Microsoft and Xbox shows just how insecure you are about the "criticism" (yeah THIS is criticism? more like an observation), which is odd because you don't even own an Xbox this gen. Nor a PS4 - yet you continually lie to make it seem like PS4 is somehow lesser. What does that say about you and your condition? Seems that you think logic is a myth. Diving back into the archives, Yusuf Mehdi (executive) believed that half of the Xbox 360 sales from 2013 until 2018 would be replacement purchases. Why? Well he must have been using some kind of measure for that.... what do you think that is, huh? Previous figures I would reckon: https://www.vg247.com/2013/...

It's perfectly logical to deduce that anybody who bought a new 360 may have done so because of the huge failure rate. Here, you're trying to connect that to "buying the same games again". Yes Moldybread, because all the game discs also had an equal failure rate to the measurably failing hardware..... /s. Embarrassing logic.

As usual, you are making up absolute untruths about me, which is absolutely pathetic of you. Seems like you have found a "Nintendo" edge to attack me for. News for you, I like Nintendo and Sony as gaming companies, a heck of a lot more than I like Microsoft - as if that wasn't obvious enough by now. It just so happens that Microsoft, in the past decade plus have made decisions that I find egregious enough to bring up, and as such that sticks with me. I am harsher on companies that have by way and large made the most damaging, anti-consumer choices in the history of gaming and the wider computing and technology field. That much is normal.

Your response, to my completely normal response, which was a response to someone who said basically the same thing, shows just how blatantly insecure you are about my comments. You attack ME, yet you don't attack others saying similar things. Regarding the market share, PS3 launched a year after the Xbox 360 did, and caught up the multi-million figure of established sales quicker than Microsoft could outsell them year-on-year. Had they launched simultaneously what do you think would have happened? Just what is happening this gen, but to a lesser extent. But mostly, if you cared enough to ask, you would find out that the reason I bring up the popularity of the Xbox brand in relation to PlayStation sometimes, is as a direct response to those who have continually claimed since before this gen started that PlayStation was in danger from Xbox, with Microsoft being the multi-billion dollar juggernaut to put it out of business etc. ;) It never has and it never will.

[freshslicepizza]

@DigitalRaptor
"By that logic...."

logic is when someone talks about something they are interested in, all you do is talk smack.

logic would be to not support products you don't like and move on. you are stuck in a time warp and are acting like a dumped boyfriend who can't let go of a girl he onced loved. so now you want to go out of your way and making her look bad because she dumped you. move on buddy, move on.

[DigitalRaptor]

@ moldybread

You don't, nor will you EVER have an honest grasp on my comment history or my gaming history. The things you accuse me of, are gross assumptions straight from your head based on a couple of comments you have read of mine in an article or two that you are in because you are already interesting in reading about the industry just as I am. You make up fantasies about what I do, to personally attack me, regardless of if there is no evidence to back it up.

I will always discuss that which is present in the industry. Comparing plastic and corporations to girlfriends, just shows that is what you personally think of. Meanwhile, you didn't even bother to reply to about 4/5 of my comment, which means you lost because you couldn't. You are only jumping on me because you are conflicted enough to let what I think about Microsoft bother you.

[freshslicepizza]

@DigitalRaptor
"You are only jumping on me because you are conflicted enough to let what I think about Microsoft bother you. "

what you think of every company is not really the issue, the issue is you and your baggage you bring to the forums. you will and have gone off-topic many times just to inject what you think of microsoft into conversations that don't even need it nor is it even on topic. you go on and on about quantum break like as if it ruined your hobby. you make absolutley no sense to an outsider other than you have a personal agenda you can't seem to shake. and for what, because it's a console exclusive that isn't coming to the nintendo or playstation console? who cares, there are thousands of other games to play but you just want to go on and on about it. same thing goes for the xbox. it's like it bothers you that the system is getting some credibility so your first reaction is to diffuse the situation because again you can't move on. the xbox 360 was the lead platform and sony lost the most popular region last generation, north america. you can downplay it all you want but facts are facts. now low and behold sony is paying much more attention to north america and are doing an amazing job in that region and everywhere else this generation. but again the console warz is just serious business to you.

speaking of your history all it shows is your disdain towards anyone who supports the xbox brand and or microsoft and then you have the audacity to attack anyone who says anything negative about the playstation when you are 100x more guilty of that when it comes to the xbox and microsoft.

this is all just a game to you, whether its about attention or just to be abrasive. the bottom line it's just another form of immaturity.

[Hold_It]

@Wallstreet

Lol, ok. You're clearly delusional if you think Uncharted can be considered Game of the Generation lmfao. Graphics don't mean everything, and that's coming from someone who started this gen with a PS4 and owns all three of this generations consoles and others.

The Order was for the most part unanimously disappointing as all it brought to the table was graphics with little to no gameplay, with no replay value what-so-ever. Even diehard PS fans I know said the game wasn't worth the $8.00 on the flash sale a couple weeks ago. I'll give you "the most anticipated PS Exclusive of the year/ your anticipated game of the year" if you want to be more accurate. Then again "Anticipated game of the year" boils down to personal preference/ opinion, as mine would be Deus Ex : Mankind Divided, and for the big JRPG fans theirs would either be FFXV or Persona 5.

With very linear games like Uncharted and The Order isn't not hard at all to have "great graphics" or "set the benchmark for graphics on consoles". When you have a ton of things going on like Hitman (2016) and MGS V:TPP, the graphics for those games are more impressive than Uncharted's because those games have more things displayed on the screen (NPC's, Buildings, Level of Detail, Depth of Field, Bloom, Ambient Occlusion, Anisotropic Filtering, Physics, God Rays, Water, Clouds, etc). When you have small areas in the game that don't have a sandbox environment and have small areas like The Last of Us, having graphics like Uncharted 4 and The Last Of Us Remastered isn't an astonishing feat. Then again I don't expect the average gamer to understand anything about game development or how hard it is to have a game with great graphics with so many mechanics, and objects on screen.

Driveclub also had a very disappointing launch and a lot of controversy around all the bs that Sony had surrounding it ever since it was unveiled at E3 and was supposed to have a "free version" of the game that would be available to all PS owners, so they could see if they liked the game, and if they did they could buy the rest of it, for the full price, or receive a discounted rate with PS+. That version NEVER happened, and with all the negative press with that game, you could say that gave Evolution Studios a swift execution. Remember, that doesn't come down to "entitled gamer", it comes down to making false promises and never delivering on them.

Hopefully Uncharted 4 does in fact end up being a great game like the first one, because I think that was the best one in the series, and didn't really care for the direction they took the series in after that. Uncharted 1 in my opinion felt like it was "more than an Uncharted game" than say 2 and 3 were.

@Godmars290
Some of them maybe. I just want the company to be successful, and not have to end up becoming a publisher like Sega. They don't have to beat Sony for them to be a success in my book, they need to better than the 360 and survive this generation of consoles. The original Xbox and 360 were highly underrated and overlooked systems just like the Sega Dreamcast and Nintendo Gamecube, due to Playstation's library at the time. Every console has it's own issues and what not just like the PS3 had YLOD. It may have not been as high of a chance as RROD, but it was still a hardware defect, which is what the RROD is.

[Hold_It]

To me, the PS3 is still a way better console than the PS4 is, as it's library was way better in the third year than what we have now for both the X1 and PS4. The Interface was better, and I wish that the PS4 would have a more streamlined interface, that would allow more customization rather than only having a bunch of paid customization, or create an XMB for PS4. Can you imagine how fast you could get to everything on PS3's XMB with PS4's hardware? Remember when Sony gave us tools to make our own themes on PS3 and PSP? They actually let us make our own themes for free! They had PS1 BC baked into the consoles from Day 1 and we didn't have to pay for it! They let us set our own background pictures on our PS3 and PSP and didn't charge us money for it!

Now it's become more apparent that Sony is just in it for the money as features like folders or removing some of the advertising applications like PS Now, and PS Vue cannot be removed or uninstalled from the PS4. I think if we don't want those features/apps on the PS4 we should be allowed to uninstall them. I think if we want to make our own themes or set our own background images on our PS4, we should be allowed to do so, not be stuck behind a paywall hoping that someone will make a theme of what we what that we will eventually have to pay for. No amount of defending is going to fix that. I also think that if we hold the PS button down on our controller there should be an option that allows us to turn off the controller right there, rather than having to go through Devices, and all this other stuff to turn it off.

People can take a metaphorical dump on the X1 as much as they want, but since they are behind Sony in sales, they are spending their own money making little to no profit to add features to their console to benefit the gamer and themselves without sounding like a corporate drone, where as Sony on the other hand is just starting to look more and more like price tags behind everything like it's a F2P game.

I think what needs to happen, is that Nintendo needs to come in with the NX and dominate both Xbox and Sony, so they will get knocked down a couple notches and Sony will go back to being more generous to the consumer like they were with PS3, rather than seeming like a salesman trying to nickle and dime you across every avenue like they do this gen.

I apologize for the essay, but I do look forward to legit replies from civilized people, if those exist on this website.

[remixx116]

"Then again I don't expect the average gamer to understand anything about game development"

You know I really can't stand this "holier than thou" attitude you guys drag in here at times.

Amazing graphics are amazing graphics my dude no matter how you dice it, it's pretty much the best looking game on console right now.

You are in fact right about much of what you said though I disagree with the comment you made about uncharteds direction. I feel as though the direction they went in suited the style of game perfectly and the execution was flawless though a bit blown out of proportion in uncharted 3 (the plane scene).

And yes the GameCube was perfection homie. LoZ windwaker, metroid prime, metroid prime 2, Kirby air ride, LoZ majoras mask, LoZ twilight princess, Starfox assault, super smash bros melee , Mario kart double dash, super Mario sunshine, super monkey ball 1& 2, Luigi mansion....dude I could go on forever...."sigh" I miss the days.

[remixx116]

@Ermac

Okay heres my reply to your second essay. Yes for the most part you are right, the industry put MS in a choke hold after those anti gamer policies were first announced and they had to change or die.

Sony is in the lead and just cooling it. I'm not saying they aren't putting out, the amount of games theyes are dropping this year is nuts, gravity rush remaster, SF5, MLB, alienation, ratchet and clank, uncharted 4, no man's sky....hell the list goes on for miles but when it comes to the small things that gamers loved like free online, free themes, backwards compat, ps plus and things of that nature have been way peeled back and now I'm just on with sony for the diversity and quantity of the games

[supraman21]

Is there actually evidence that supports that Microsoft counted refurbished counsels as new console sales? I had an argument on another site and I said exactly that but I couldn't find anything in regards to it lol.

[Gol3m]

If they did I doubt they'd ever tell

[ScorpiusX]

WOW looking for hits on a story that's nine years old, but if you must how about a story on disc drives messing up,
Sony wanting to fix them for a $120 or maybe a story on YLOD if your going to bring up old news.

[RosweeSon]

YLOD Compared to RROD isn't even a comparison Sony had what barely 5-10% absolute maximum failures over the entire generation, the first 2-3 years of launch Microsoft had how many failures more like 20-35% nearly a third of those early consoles failed that is truly horrendous. My Mega Drive/Genesis still works now what's Xbox 360's excuse. Not only that you mention Sony charging $120 I know Microsoft will repair your console in warranty like any company will but they'll sure as hell be charging once that 1-2 year warranty runs out like the rest of them... Nintendo didn't charge me to get my Wii cleaned tho came and a picked it up fixed and returned in a week free of charge out of warranty (they had an issue with the dual layer games not working older/dirtier consoles) all fixed for free tho way out of warranty, sure my PS3 launch day edition broke and Sony were not very helpful in making sure I got that original one back or wanted me to pay to get it fixed but I had had a couple of years out of it. Blu Ray failed got more reliable as it went on so never needed to replace PS3 again. I had a white Xbox, an elite that got repaired 2-3 times.. An elite? Finally settled on the Star Wars edition and it was much more reliable but then it did come out 7-8 years after launch. Early Xbox 360's were weak.

[ScorpiusX]

just saying if the author feel like dredging up old event to a console then he should talk about all 3 equally . Not just highlight one due to cost like he has done here , all 3 companies have their faults .

[Rude-ro]

The Xbox 360 failure rate was more around 80% to 100%. It was a design issue across the board not just from one facility.
The lower failure rate "reported" is from actual customer returns of which we all know only about 39% of consumer actually use a warranty AND the three year warranty forced onto Microsoft in order to avoid a recall was introduced almost two years after the release of the console.

[darthv72]

Only one of my 360's had the RRoD. It was a launch 05 model and didn't get the problem until 07 when they were doing the free repairs. It has been solid ever since. My PS3 has not had the YLoD but i have had a couple PS2 where the lasers went bad as well as a few PS1 where they would overheat and have to turn them upside down. Oh and my original Wii had the sound chip go bad. That was $75 to fix from nintendo but the laser repair on my 1st PS2 was easily over $100. The 2nd one I didn't even bother and just got a slim instead.

[Wallstreet37]

Maybe the YLOD (by the way Microsft had a disc scratching issue too lol smh) was nowhere near as bad as RROD and Sony didnt try to lie about it and say it wasnt an issue like Microsoft did. That company you love initally didnt include RROD in their warranty and wasnt covering it at all. When gamers came out in masses Microsoft ignored the issue and said nothing was going on lol. At one point RROD was so huge it affected almost half of the console produced (wow!!!!!) and many ppl not covered by the initial bs warranty had to buy new ones. You do know that Microsoft did not acknowledge the RROD situation until they were taking to court on a class action lawsuit right? You do know they tried to cover it up? You do know they were forced to include and extend their warranty because they were taken to court and if they didn't would lose big time. You support that bs? Comparing it to YLOD that affected maybe like 8% of systems lol which is an expected failure rate. You do know the case files are open on this so its public information lol I know your a big Microsft fanboy but come on that was acceptable to you?

The worst part of all.........!!!!!!!!

It was found that Microsoft knew about the RROD issues before they sold their system (wow!!!!!) and purposely sold faulty hardware to beat Sony on releasing a new console!!!! That is the reason i stopped supporting Microsft completly. Its one thing to make mistakes and learn about it afterwards but to purposely screw us over and then lie about it smh!!!!!

Keep up the good fight though (and i didnt link articles or the cases because thats common knowledge at this point and ive done it in the past and fanboys dont care and act like it doesnt exist).

[ScorpiusX]

Again my point is that if shit is going to be brought up , its should all be put out there not just one in particular . Cause am sure those from the far east have shit in their closets and for some reason no one wants acknowledge it or dares bring it up . Just seem that everyone excuse their shit like theirs some kind grand thing.

[Gol3m]

I believe the official YLOD figure was 3%. But even though I repaired my own console by paying MS for the privilege I still loved the console. Just not quite as much as my ps3 60gb fat

[Wallstreet37]

Kingslayer....

Honestly i didnt read your bs post in defense of rrod. Bottom line and facts are rrod was an intentional grimey action against consumers. So defend all you want and look like a fanboy, hey its a free world.

Its disgusting me scanning through yiur comment and seeing "Rrod wasnt what ppl made it to be" lol haha im done nah we all imagined it smfh.

[Wallstreet37]

http://www.dailytech.com/Mi...

[rainslacker]

This article is recounting the events as told by Robbie Bach, the lead designer of the Xbox 360. I'm sure if he had knowledge of Sony's defect rate, reasons, and what they did about it, and for some reason put them in a book recounting the events, the article may cover those things.

Since he didn't discuss those things, I fail to see the relevance to even go on about what Sony did in the article, or consider that an article would have to be written for a piece of electronics which falls within what is considered acceptable for failure rate percentages within electronics.

Nothing Sony did cost MS a billion dollars, because Sony didn't design the 360 console, nor did they release the console with the defect known to exist, nor did they have any say on how to fix the problem. If you think MS was any better with their replacement plan before the threat of a lawsuit, and actual lawsuits, then you are sadly mistaken....and it was a huge point of ire among 360 gamers at the time.

There's probably going to be a lot of these recounting and reminiscing type articles over the next month since MS discontinued production of the 360, effectively saying it's now a thing of the past. Sony will get their time when they discontinue the PS3. By your reasoning, we could also stop dredging up these articles about how the 360 changed everything, or why it was the best console ever or of last gen as well....because well...it's all in the past now.

[ScorpiusX]

That's the thing you will always see the articles on controversial , but never the positives issues of what they helped move forward on a grand scale . Those you will not see and i wonder why.

[rainslacker]

Seriously? I've seen several articles over the past few weeks which recounts the positive things it brought, and go on at length of how it changed the entire landscape of console gaming.

Heck, I saw this article in the list right below one such article, claiming Xbox was the last great console.

Maybe you're unaware, but MS discontinued production of the 360 last week, and these kinds of Xbox articles, mostly good mind you, have been here on a daily basis.

[jmc8888]

As I stated above, the Xbox 360 had it's own disc drive problems.

A well known disc-scratching issue. Lost at least a dozen discs due to this.

My replaced drive also stopped reading discs reliably. Some worked, and some didn't. I remember pre-ordering Halo 4, and when I got it, put it in, it had a mandatory install and it could never get through it. Never got to play it. That sucked.

[zerocarnage]

I had two consoles in that 360 life span, the release and an upgrade because I chose to not because it broke down. I just do not understand how people made those break down so much and I used to game on both of mine all day every day and sometimes through the night to.

Microsoft also had some amazing accessories for the 360 to, from the battery packs to the charger to that wireless little headset, I wished they had so kept the same builds for them towards to Xbox one because the accessories on Xbox one are so cheap, easily breakable and unreliable.

Yeah the Xbox 360 in my eyes to date is the greatest console that ever powered on for a good many reasons.

[RosweeSon]

People didn't make them break they failed. It's called poor manufacturing. My disc drive just failed on one so that all my discs and yes they were scratch free some were brand new would not be read by the disc drive I sent it off to be repaired and no word of a lie on my mothers life within 7-10 days absolute Max I had to send it off to Xbox as the console they had only just repaired for me for a completely seperste issue had now developed RROD, I guess you were lucky yours managed to survive the duration but many many others clearly didn't these people arent making it up and bashing their consoles to fail. I certainly didn't I look after my stuff ask any of my friends they'll say I'm OCD with looking after my games and controllers yet mine failed a few times. The headsets were cheap the battery packs failed after a year or 2 so you'll either have to keep it on charge or purchase a new one, the system itself when it worked and what they offered great but from a technical and reliability viewpoint, not great at all, no console in the history of gaming as had such a high failure rate and I don't think any console will ever come close. It would get pulled from market or just not reach it in the first place until the issues were fixed.
You liked the console as I did and many others did but seriously don't be a moron the console had issues and was far from perfect especially the early days. That and we had to pay to play online and then your console fails at your expense as you have to ring 0845 numbers or did. They should call you at their expense and bend over backwards. Specially if failing in the first year it's abysmal but hey ho that was indeed the past still happened tho and put me off buying Xbox one launch day the reveal didn't help persuade me in the slightest either.

[SunnyZ]

So the mistake was extending the warranty, not the fact that the console had an obvious problem in its design?

Okay then...

[Ruggadagod]

My freshly bought 360 died in 11 months. Never looked back and bought a PS3 which lasted 6 years and is still alive. The Xbox 360 has great online and a great controller though. And the multiplats ran great. It's just that the hardware died so fast that it wasn't worth using anymore.

[NotEvenMyFinalForm]

what I found surprising about the X360 is that even with the high failure rate I had friends that kept buying it over and over again, they refused to give up. I have friends that bought 5 freaking X360 systems before they finally decide to switch to PS3 nearly at the end of the life cycle.

[Silkside]

Can't inflate their numbers this Gen without the RROD, luckily Microsoft count in overall devices and Live subscription now, including Xbox 360, Xbox One, Windows 10, Windows Vista, Zune, etc....... 50 million in total!!! beating Sony!!!!

[rainslacker]

I think they're only going to count XBL for gaming reporting purposes. If not, it will be plainly apparent that the numbers are inflated, because if it's just Live in general, we'd see them reporting numbers in the billion range. Granted, they did once say they expect that many consoles to sell this gen, so we can see how they will achieve that maybe.:)

Anyhow, if the actual numbers come up more than the PS4, which is very possible with Win10 and mobile users added in, we'll know it's BS, and it won't even be worth talking about other than to say they're full of sh*t.

[PhoenixUp]

Microsoft rushed their console to the market to have it on shelves before Sony's new console and paid dearly for it.

Not only did it have RROD, the Xbox 360 was loud, scratched discs, and initially had no WiFi and no HDMI.

After seeing that Microsoft choose design over effiency approach with Xbox 360, it seems that the company has problems putting out visually appealing looking consoles that don't have hardware defects. This explains why most of their consoles have an unflattering huge box-like design.

[Tobsesan]

Yet look how great the system was with 3. party games running way better on its underpowered console. Look how many APPs the Ps3 has compared to X360. Best Online, Controller, UI and with the most games last gen its just a great system overall and wont die anytime soon since its BC with XOne.

"After seeing that Microsoft choose design over effiency approach with Xbox 360, it seems that the company has problems putting out visually appealing looking consoles that don't have hardware defects. "

And they learned from it, look what the Xone is now, a console that wont ever overheat with almost no sound and look how loud the ps4 is.

[FallenAngel1984]

@ Tobsesan

Xbox 360 had the most games? Lmao that's a good one. PlayStation 3 still gets plenty of exclusive games to this day. That's an objective fact.

Also those other things you listed are subjective. Many people could've just as easily preferred the PS3's free online, recharchable controller, and easy to use XMB as they could've preferred the 360's alternatives.

You also seemed to neglect how Microsoft had to make Xbox One a huge console because they arent as experienced as Sony is at making elegant looking consoles right out of the gate that perform that don't have high hardware issues. Just look how PS4 is a much more powerful system yet is much smaller and even has an internal power supply. Microsoft can't manage to do all that without running into another mass malfunction issue.

[chasegarcia]

The Playstation 3 also had a major problem because they used non lead solder that couldn't handle the heat. Look up the reflow fix. At least Microsoft admitted their mistakes and offered a decent warranty. I owned both console and experienced both issues. Also, it made sense to fix broken consoles because they easily made their money back when a user bought Xbox live and games.

[RosweeSon]

Ps1 had a major problem you had to turn the thing upside down after a year or 2 because the laser dropped in the console after repeated wear and tear... But that's the point things will fail after being used or a few years age, these Xboxs were failing with minimal use and barely months down the line sometimes. Poor at least if you just turned the ps1 upside down the laser drop down near to the disc again, problem solved.

[fenome]

Microsoft admitted their mistakes? Lol

They tried to cover it up and act like it wasn't a big issue. The only reason they 'admitted' it was because a class action lawsuit was filed and they got taken to court. They didn't offer the extended warranty out of the kindness of their heart, they were told they had to in a court of law because they were screwing people over...

[chasegarcia]

Yeah, it was not out of kindness. It was simply a business decision. I said "admitted" because they actually acknowledged it (unlike Sony).

[fenome]

Yeah, the weak solder in the phat models did crack over time, but it wasn't as pronnounced of a problem as RROD. My original 60 gig backwards compatible model lasted 6 years before I had to get it fixed and I never had any issues with my slim model. The only reason I even got the other one fixed was because it was backwards compatible.

[iceman06]

The difference was that, while the PS3 DID fail, it was within industry standards. The Xbox 360 was admitted to be over 45% with industry analysts putting it above 55%. Plus, these failures generally occurred within the first year. The PS3 was at roughly 15% (according to analyst...no official word from Sony) and failures occurred much later in the console's life. In the end, MS was facing a class action lawsuit that would have forced them to pay out WAY more than $1 billion. So, they extended the warranty and offered the refurbs and replacements. This wasn't some beneficent gesture on behalf of MS. It was good business. Much like it wasn't malicious for Sony NOT to offer an extended warranty. It was a business decision.

[Morgue]

Funny because I remember some users or an article back then saying their console got the RROD because of that game UNDERTOW. Didn't think anything of it so I randomly downloaded it one day because I think it was free at the time and literally not even 20 minutes into the game my 360 took a dump. Got it to turn back on then it red ringed and I haven't played or downloaded that game since.

[darthv72]

Ironic as it was Undertow that my system crashed on thus developing into the RRoD. I even stated that in a really old thread on here back in 07. My system was fixed by MS and has been solid ever since.

[RosweeSon]

I agreed with part of the silk side and then read the rest... 50 million with Windows Xbox 360 and One? Well Xbox 360 sold over 80 million so your numbers not right it's under in fact but if we're including consoles from 2 different generations? PS3/Ps4 80+ million and 35-40+ million that's 115 million add on Vita. Zune tho really forgot about that altogether

[Imalwaysright]

It's been quite some time since I've seen a RROD related article on N4g. It brings back some memories of the best trolls from way back :)

[rainslacker]

Wasn't there an article about a year ago where Ballmer said that he was the one that decided that they should extend the warranty because "it's the right thing to do" and "We have to make this right" because he felt it was super important? That the guys talked about in this article came into his office, and that's what he decided?

This article is saying that this was all decided in a guys basement, and that Ballmer really wasn't the one who decided that MS should make it right.

Or am I missing something?

And yeah, I knew there was something about it. Ballmer claimed Peter Moore came to him to say they had to fix it, and Ballmer pretty much asked "how much".

http://arstechnica.com/gami...

This recounting kind of puts the two stories at odds. One is the design team taking responsibilities for their mistakes, and managing to make the warranty possible, the other is Ballmer saying that MS is a responsible company that will take accountability for it's mistakes and have no problem making them right regardless of costs.

[iceman06]

Isn't that the nature of big business? The CEO will always take credit for what the underlings do and always try to make the company look better no matter what.

[miyamoto]

its 1.5 billion $$$ according to Peter Moore

[jmc8888]

He said they began trickling in around August 2006? Alot earlier then that. It hit me in Feb-March of 2006, and I already knew all about it after hearing tons of people online saying it happened to them.

It also had other problems. The disc scratching problem killed probably a dozen of my discs, and also was a widspread and documented problem. Had that replaced.

Had a hard drive break down.

Went through about 5-6 controllers, and I wasn't throwing them.

The 2nd dvd drive started only reading some discs. Some games playable, some not. So it gave out.

Finally about 2012 it RRoD'ed another time and I said screw it.

The only console problem (besides controllers) I've ever had before this (from Atari/NES onwards) was another disc scratch problem with the Sega Saturn. Nothing since then either.

That console had some major, major problems.