IGN: Is releasing an upgradable console good or bad for consumers? Max and Jared discuss.
I would have prefered a PS5 with backwards compatability in 2018/2019 tbh.
I'd prefer a 2017 release, myself (a four year window isn't unheard of, see Xbox to 360, for example). This generation's graphics aren't as big a leap as we've seen in the past between system generations, and I think they know that (hence PS4 NEO). Why not just skip the bullshit and give us PS5? I don't want to pay for a partial upgrade in 2016, I'd rather get a full one in 2017. @Iceball2000: "Because the Xbox failed lol" "On November 15, 2001, Xbox launched in North America and quickly sold out. Its launch in that region was successful, selling 1.53 million units three months after launch, which is higher than its successor Xbox 360, as well as the GameCube, PlayStation 3, Wii U, and even the PlayStation 2 and Wii." Despite lagging far behind the PlayStation 2's sales, the Xbox was overall a success (especially in North America), keeping a steady second place in the generation sales." - Wikipedia Microsoft lost money on the system (and 360 as well, at least for a while IIRC), technically, but it wasn't a "failure."
Because the Xbox failed lol
4-5 years between releases wasn't unheard of back in the day because game development didn't take years to complete. As complexity increased, the platforms had to find ways to extend themselves thus it got to where 6, 7, 8-10 year console cycles were there to offset the development time and time to recoup on investment for the games themselves. If Ms and Sony opt to shorten the console span specifically but extend the platform for the long duration then this tiered idea might work. When Apple reveals a new iphone you know that within 1-2 years post launch they will have revisions to that model under a modified identifier. Technically they are all still that iphone generation but with varying specs, price and performance. All of which are under the same umbrella and IOS support. But there does come a point where they can't keep supporting the previous units with the new OS so yes people do inevitably have to upgrade. Gaming consoles taking on that similar approach with a 3-4 year span of hardware could mean that games in development now and not ready for release will get improved to take advantage of the newer hardware when the time comes.
@darth- agreed. Good read!
Who cares either way. Just go ahead and get the new one. All these people complaining obviously do not game on pc. I'm no fan boy either. I built a top of the line rig and I own all the systems. I play everything on my rig in 4K on ultra and I will still get the upgraded ps4 just for the slightly better performance. They def should have at least 2tb hdd too. Like I said before these so called nex gen systems came are not nexgen at all. Just look at the specs
You are going to get just that in 2019.
Thing is, what about the people that bought a shiny new PS4 just last week? Their purchase instantly becomes 'inferior' and we're not even a full 3 years into this gen yet. IMO: Both Sony and MS should've released new consoles in 2018 with FULL backwards compatibility and made it a 5 year cycle to make up for the weaker hardware. PS4.5 is Sony's way of holding onto PS4 success as long as possible, in spite of the 40m early adopters that went out and supported them.
It's just bad luck if you got one recently. Just like if you bought a game before a major sale.
Bought a PS4 a month ago. I would have been ok without having for one for a little longer.
How is this in spite of? They released revisions before. This isn't a new platform, its just a new sku. Even if its more powerful, it won't have its own games, it won't effect PS4 owners. If you are personally or emotionally effected, that is something they can't do anything about. They are in the business of making money, not making folks feel good that others don't have a better unit. That is like saying don't release PS5 because PS4 owners will be upset, don't release PS3 ,because PS2 owners will be upset....at some point they need to release something new bud. If you bought one, too bad. It happens. Folks bought PS3 fats JUST before PS3 Slim was announced, was Sony not suppose to do that? Mind you, PS4.5 doesn't have its own games, it works with PS4 games, its in the same install base, so those who supported PS4, will still get games as PS4.5 isn't a new platform that has its own games, its just a new version of PS4. That is like saying Samsung shouldn't release Galaxy S8, because of S7 users.... As if them not making money, is helping you or something lol.
I just hope that leads to backwards compatible consoles with every update from now on. Best outcome ever.
Yes but the fact that the ps4.5 will RUN GAMES BETTER than the base ps4 cant be ignored.
[They are in the business of making money, not making folks feel good that others don't have a better unit. ] So if this new ps4/5 going to be sold at profit or at a loss? You just said it yourself..they are in it to make money..they could reduce the current model in costs to rake in more money..now instead of one line for production they are going to have another new ps4.5 production line? Who is going to be making this new SKU for them. Its not going f on the same production lines as the current model.
Incomparable. PS3 slim didn't make any significant hardware changes, pretty much just a thinner system. NEO is a whole different situation, kid.
any time you buy something that is computer based it's already inferior since technology is always getting better. also unless the new ps4 can play games the old one can't why worry about it? nobody is forcing anyone to upgrade as of yet.
A lot of ps4 owners wont be happy knowing a more powerful model will be out there and you know it! Im sure it bothers you but you're too much of a sony fanboy to show it.
If the PS4 Neo was designed in a way that it can be attached to the PS4 as an upgrade rather than a separate entity then I would be fine with that but effectively selling me a new console 2 years after the last one is a dick move.
Not really. They did that with the Slim, MS did that with many other skus too. Its business. PS4 wasn't made with that in mind in terms of having some upgradable parts. Why would it even hurt you anyway, PS4.5 doesn't have its own games, you are getting all the same games anyway.
Am sorry EDMIX, I agree often with but you keep comparing it to a Slim model, but seriously, can't you see this is totally a different situation? And if you want to reply with "and why is it different?" and more of that drivel, then don't reply at all... You full well know how the industry works, you can then also come up with ways this might actually hurt PS4 versions compared to Neo versions. Besides, you probably know how people tick too and some people are pissed about it which hurts the brand name. A Slim has never done any of those things. So no, it's not the same as a Slim model...
My comparison to the slim version is based on its a new sku, not a new platform with its own market. I'm not comparing specs, I'm comparing its place in the market in regards to be a version of, and not a new platform all together. See what I'm comparing, its no a 1.1 comparison. it wasn't meant to be. "you can then also come up with ways this might actually hurt PS4 versions compared to Neo versions" Both will play the same games, so I don't see what you mean. The rumor is stating PS4.5 won't have its own "versions" of games. They will merely update to take advantage similar to how PC is, you don't have a "AMD sku" of a PC game, they are all the same and just update based on certain configurations, this is no different. It isn't PS2 to PS3, it isn't PC to MAC, its PC AMD Quad core 3.4 to PC AMD Quad core 4.0 etc. What I'm saying is its not a new or different platform, as much as its just a more powerful version of the same platform. "Besides, you probably know how people tick too and some people are pissed about it which hurts the brand name" How? Because people are mad that others get a better option? Will we all not get a better option with PS5? Would that hurt the brand name too? Does Samsung making the S8, hurt S7 users? Sonys job is to not inflate the egos of those who want to be SOLELY on the bleeding edge of tech, its to create hardware to move software. The reality is, if you are still getting games, if PS4.5 doesn't have its own games, what exactly is hurting you? The notion of others getting something better, even despite you still getting the same games? I beg you, how does this actually REALLY hurt you as teh consumer? Will you not buy PS5 now? Is this enough for you to never own another PS because Sony wants to continue to make better hardware? I'm sorry but I don't see how this translates into lost sales. Those that have PS4, will still get games. Those that want the new PS4, will still get the same PS4 games that run better. Its a win/win. If you are upset because someone else has better, I don't know what to tell you, its just a stupid point and makes no sense. MOST won't care as MOST buy consoles due to what they are getting, not due to what they are NOT getting. Because PS4 will be the base ,I don't see the PS4.5 games being this night and day, consider even on PC, on max settings, most games are not this HUGE night and day from PS4 to XONE or something. This is merely an option to play those games better. Its not its own market, its not getting its own games. Thus....who cares? Want it, buy it, don't want it....keep playing your PS4. What would someone who is "pissed" even matter to Sony if they are mad that Sony is making better hardware? So Sony should not make better, to please this group that is um "pissed"? Did you buy a PS4 under this concept that they would NEVER have something better?
Sigh, seriously? You really think there's absolutely no chance of developers putting less time in a PS4 version because they have the PS4 Neo as well? It's rather naive to think that is never going to happen, sure, I might be cynical to think it's going to happen for all games, the truth is probably somewhere in between. Devs have been making a game for a few years, they knew they had to optimise the crap out of it to make it run on the one and only PS4 model, now they have two of them, one with better specs. Am certain some of them will put less time in optimising for the base model... You don't have to tell me if something should hurt people or not, you full well know people are going to be upset, feel hurt, be angry about this regardless if you think it's okay to do so. I'm not one of them, I probably buy the Neo if it's real, but you can't deny the fact that people will feel this way which will have a negative impact on Sony's brand. Like it or not. And remember the original X1 reveal? Did MS care that people were pissed off by their ideas? Pissed off people can hurt a company...
I think the concern is warranted... but only to a certain extent. The release of PS4k won't suddenly invalidate the PS4, especially as the leaks state that Sony want to ensure that all games released for PS4k will Not have any special or exclusive features - apart from the obvious graphical and frame rate improvements; and also that there will not be any games that are exclusively developed for just the PS4k. I think Sony want PS4k more for PSVR, and this is where I think the real concern is. If PSVR isn't 'good enough' without PS4k, then this will impact on PSVR negatively, as they would have to rely on the PS4k to really Sell what PSVR can do. Sony are in a very precarious position and are in danger of fragmenting their user base in too many directions.
[Sony are in a very precarious position and are in danger of fragmenting their user base in too many directions.] So ask your self why do it? Every PSVR demo showed off , every game showed off..every demo station use's a current PS4 system for VR. Do people stop and think about what game Multiplayer that Sony is releasing for VR and do they think Sony is going to split that online community's game playing tournament between the current PS4 and this Supposed PS4.5? Sony has been developing this since 2010..many are acting like this is Sony's first time making VR headsets. The fact that Sony is putting over 500,000 PSVR demo units across the North American market for gamers to try out and its using a current PS4 to do so.. Why would Sony need now a PS4.5 with only 2.4 years into this market with 40 million install base already.why make a move to give other people pause to not buy the current PS4? That only cause confusion and how would Sony marketing this PS4.5 vs the current PS4 ..now with "neo included" LMAO
They can't fragment an install base, that also buys the same games. PS4.5 having the same games and not having its own exclusives pretty much stops any fragmentation from happening. Same install base.
Your going to have a fragmented base because maybe not now , maybe not in the near future..but in next generation cycle it would. Because it will set a very bad president.. By doing this its going to outright hurt your Adoption rate. I mean why now anyway? We are only 2.4 years in..why now wait 2 more years for the price to go down further for even higher level SOC by AMD? I think many are looking at that Sony & Microsoft are looking to turn the console market into a pseudo PC type of upgrading for Consoles when it just would not be I think conducive to do such when people would more than likely wait 2.4 years to get an upgraded unit..its basically putting the consumer into a fence sitting mode more than they would if they knew they buy it..that's the system they would have for 10 years. Game consoles are on a 10 year support cycle and in some companies case its over 10 years..other such companies may want to cut their support cycle sooner rather than later. http://news.xbox.com/2016/0... Getting into such a cycle by defaults causes developers to reconsider why Optimize, when your support cycle per system release is 3 years? That's what did that to the Pc market for such a long time..now with the smartphone market its already fragmented because many games do not work on handsets that if their version Of iOS & Android OS was not updated that may not have the manufacturing company upgrade your Smartphone's OS. Its going to not be the same way in the console market? By going this route it defeated the very purpose of Consoles were developed for. If you are going for a 3 year refresh cycle , why not Arm mobile chipsets than? ..at least the entry cost would be cheap enough for such a quick turn over rate..its not so much the Refresh by itself. It's the Price point combined with such and the time many 3rd party developers will I doubt take much time to optimize their code for Consoles.. And just go for PC anyway.
"By doing this its going to outright hurt your Adoption rate" Who cares? Sony doesn't care when you get a PS4, just that you get a PS4. 150 million people didn't get PS2s day 1, it took years and many different skus to do that. If you wait for PS5.5 or PS5 slim etc, that is your choice. That is like saying don't release PS5, because it hurts the adoption rate of PS6 lol. Buddy....at some point people need to face that they will need to upgrade to keep up. Also all the games working on the same skus pretty much throws that concept out the window. We are all playing the same games...who cares? "Getting into such a cycle by defaults causes developers to reconsider why Optimize, when your support cycle per system release is 3 years?" ? Nope. PS4 and PS4.5 are both still PS4s...... PS4.5 won't get exclusives. Developers have updates on PC to support certain parts, so that doesn't really make sense bud. Yet they make PC games and live life lol " its already fragmented because many games do not work on" LMFAO! Are you even reading what others are posting? The rumor states all games will run on both skus. PS4.5 has no exclusives, thus your own point is irrelevant as it doesn't apply to PS4.5. Pretty sure Sony already thought of that and knows what could happen, its their money on the line you know. Look at the parties involved. Publishers won't make exclusive games to a sku because it doesn't help them, they LOVE the 40 million install base and it makes no sense to NOT MAKE MONEY from it. Sony won't make such games as they too have a 40 million install base, they make more money from software then from hardware, so why sell exclusive software to make money from hardware? Not likely bud, your worries pretty sure are their worries 100x over. You are not getting fired or losing money due to this, Sony sure is. Thus, its likely the rumors from many sources too, are pointing that Sony has already looked at all of this and wants PS4.5 to continue and add to the PS4 install base, not be its OWN MARKET. IE GAMES WORK ON BOTH PS4.5 and PS4, PS4.5 DOESN'T HAVE ITS OWN GAMES. Developers will merely update to get the full support of PS4.5, they won't just make games only for PS4.5. They don't for PC configurations, so why would they in this case? Did you get games only for PS3 Slim? Did you get games only for 360 elite? " 3rd party developers will I doubt take much time to optimize their code for Consoles" LMFAO! THEY ALREADY DO bud, they do for PC for MORE configurations, yet they don't make AMD versions of their games or Intel versions of their games or anything of the sort, they just update to support certain set ups, pretty sure its a piece of cake for them to update for PS4.5 as if they have a PC version....by DEFAULT its already beyond the PS4 version in the first place, meaning having the PS4.5 run better, with more settings, frames etc is likely not even a huge issue if at all. Consider when you game on PC, does it take you a team of engineers to adjust settings when you buy a new GPU? Sooooooo why would it be a challenge for the team made the game, to have it run a bit better on stronger hardware? Did you not once think about that or ? LMFAO!
Potentially good. The biggest downside is they seem to be trying to avoid PS5, and that's a greedy, lazy move I'd expect from Nintendo, not Sony.
Hopefully we get some official news on new consoles from Sony, MS and Nintendo at PAX East this weekend. 54 days of speculation before E3 about the new consoles is going to be painful
Has Sony actually confirmed the existence of a revised PS4 with increased power?
Nope. This was leaked documents that I believe Giant Bomb got ahold of.
@SolidGear32h ago [Nope. This was leaked documents that I believe Giant Bomb got ahold of.] And yet GiantBomb has not shown off these documents! So still just a Rumor.
Bad let the current cycle mature..I mean if you wanted upgraded console every three years. We already have that now..its called Windows 10. I mean Windows OS 10 has Xbox software and services built right in.. There you go.. Embrace, Extend, Eliminate the need for a console's. I mean its very simple to see ..you already having ..what upgrade every 3rd year?..well I will just wait..than you have had gamers also saying I will just go PC than...you think that is in reference to Linux based PC's? Lmao. Its clear , what's happening with all of this..is if Microsoft was winning this market share & Mind share in the console market would the North american and UK media be talking about Upgraded console's? I would be betting No..and there would be talks about Sony selling off Playstation to the highest bidder.bor how Microsoft would swoop in and buy off Playstation make playstation exclusives for Windows OS & Xbox. Its killing many gamers that they just cannot get all the games they want to play on one box..oh but you can, if that's a Pc your looking for with Steam, Xbox and PC indies..just that Nintendo and Sony have plans for their own for their own platforms. Can we have one unique gaming market out side of the PC market where it does not just get turned into a clone of your Software ending up on our "windows OS" For the love of god..just stop LMAO
Sooooo. When MS releases a upgraded system,, i reckon sony is suppose to sit back n watch?
@Cuzzo631h ago [Sooooo. When MS releases a upgraded system,, i reckon sony is suppose to sit back n watch?] Why not? PC's are already released every way more times over than what console's are in the same time. Hell Even Microsoft is Now treating the Xbox one and Windows 10 OS is one and the same platform anyway. Take a read..Microsoft just stopped production on the xbox360. Sony is still supporting the PS3 & PSVita and you think its all about Power why the PS4 sold so well? Its more than that. Its more than just power. http://news.xbox.com/2016/0... Sony getting into a system power contest with Microsoft since Microsoft is now treating PC & Xbox as one and the same platform. Is really a no win situation for Sony, So I doubt Sony is worrying about just Power..its the Eco system Why Microsoft is still trying to stick a windows OS powered Media center [PC] under the TV. Sony is taking the Playstation as a living room Hub to link from under the TV streaming to-> other devices. Notice Sony is streaming to PC & Mac. With Remote Play! Notice Sony is putting Playstation Vue on PS3 PS4 Amazon fire stick & player Google Chromecast Streaming to Smart TV's playstation Now is on smartTV's Its not about Power..Sony is making sure the playstation as a Hub and other devices PC & Mac & smartdevices are playstation console's node.
Why would you want to turn the console market into a clone of the PC market? There is only one company that benefits from such a move.. It shrinks console adoption while pushing consumers toward the PC market..think about if there is a refresh of console hardware every three years developers are going to do what? Why optimize for consoles when they can just port from PC to console. Now consumers see oh' I can just wait 3 years and buy a 2nd version of a console instead of the 1st..now the people who buy in their system value shrinks for the 2nd hand market. Why not go All in if your going to treat the console market as a smartphone market just make your [email protected] console's with smartphone chipsets. Hell Smartphone VR is even cheaper to boot. LoL See how freaking silly that sounds? Asking consumers in the console market to refresh their Hardware every 3rd year out of a 10 year cycle. means most people will wait to the last refresh and than buy.. In if there is even enough consoles sold at that point from everyone pretty much waiting for a refresh in hardware...thus Hardly anyone would buy the system before hand.. You want a sure fire way to kill the console market this is it.
You have a lot to learn about the PC market if you think just upgrading parts is its key feature.
@EDMIX-_54m ago [You have a lot to learn about the PC market if you think just upgrading parts is its key feature.] Well if upgrading parts is not a key feature why than have upgraded parts or upgraded consoles? Is it so developers can make better games and software and take advantages of new hardware as what its able to offer new for the PC or console.. If it was not a key feature in upgrading , than there would be no reason to upgrade. Ever!
"Well if upgrading parts is not a key feature why than have upgraded parts or upgraded consoles?" You can have them, doesn't mean its the key feature or reason why someone games on that platform. Demand is why someone would want an upgraded console. You can game on PC and only upgrade once every cycle, ie your basically upgrading your entire rig when a new generation starts, so that doesn't actually apply to all PC gamers. "If it was not a key feature in upgrading , than there would be no reason to upgrade. Ever!" New GPUs that are REQUIRED to run a game or the new series of games, don't release ever few years, they release literally every generation cycle. Meaning that you can still use high end GPU through out a generation and only upgrade when its required to run a new generation of games. Meaning that upgrading is a choice for PC gamers, its not the KEY feature as many might not even "upgrade" in regards to parts, I know some who just out right buy entirely new PCs. Not all PC gamers constantly upgrade bud. Like I stated, you have a lot to learn about the PC market if you think its KEY feature is just upgrading parts. Mods, flexible configurations, multiple controller types, multiple use, adjustable settings etc. So no, just upgrading parts is not that major of a feature to ALL PC gamers as I know many that actually just do entirely new builds ever generation.
IMO , it is very unrespectable step !! they have to know that fans of home console gaming are too different from the smartphone/tablets fans.
Options are always good for consumers. Personally, I don't upgrade my phone every year but I like the option to be there for me.
Exactly. Options are a good thing.
What kind of deal will we get if they want us to purchase this as a ps4 owner. What about my 2tb hardrive?
Bad if it's true.I bought the ps4 expecting it to last 7 years or so; Not to have a more powerful version release in 3 years with much better performing versions of the ps4 games. To get the best version of games I'll have to double dip. F that.
Who stated support was ending for PS4? PS4.5 is a PS4 bud, its just a different version of it. PS4 will still have games releasing because PS4.5 won't have its own games........ie no exclusives, ie its playing the same games as PS4. Thus....you are not losing anything, if you have a PS4, you are still getting games. Whats the problem? To get the best version of MOST games, you would need a gaming PC. Why do you own a console if you wanted the BEST feasible?
There, you said it yourself. If I want the best version of games I should get a PC. Then what's the damn purpose of this upgraded ps4 ???? Since both share the exact same games, why even release this?? makes no damn sense.
"There, you said it yourself. If I want the best version of games I should get a PC. Then what's the damn purpose of this upgraded ps4 ????" To Sony? What do they care? I stated if "YOU" wanted the best version of a game. PS4 moved almost 40 million units, all while PC versions of many games out performed it. This is in regards to Sony. An install base will buy an upgraded version if given the choice. Thus a market exist for it. That is like saying, why should Sony make PS5, if PC is better. What on earth does that have to do with Sony though? lol, do you not get the motives of the parties involved? You might want to add some logic to your thinking bud. Based on your logic, Sony shouldn't even have a PS4, if you can buy on PC....
That's not how it's gonna work!
I'm not buying any of them TBH I will stick to what i own now.
the idea of being a console gamer is tat we are not upgrading every 2 years and spending thousands of dollars just to stay current. i think this works in the pc industry but consoles hace never been about pc gaming. 1080p looks great on any tv and and on the side of processing the developers seem to be doing fine having the same hardware to dial in over 7 or so years. just my thaoughts
Obviously it's good for those who purchase and irelevant to those who do not buy.
I'm in the minority that will buy a PS4k that already has a PS4. As a PC gamer, I find that upgrading the gpu evert 2-3 years is normal. The CPU's have lasted 4-5 years lately. I see the PS4k as a bigger GPU to run games better. I'd much rather play on a console than on PC for FPS games. Less hackers is the top priority of me staying on consoles for FPS. As long as the PS4 and PS4k keeps player base with eachother, and not break them apart like PS3 to PS4 that will be great. I play BF4, and will greatly look forward to getting a constant 45fps with 64 players unlike it is now at a constant 20-25fps, with a rare max of 60fps if I look into the sky lol. Hopefully with PS4k, Sony can develop a better way to backwards compatible PS2 and PS3 games. Hopefully that's their main reason for the PS4k, with the addition of a bigger gpu. Maybe with Xbox One going B/C, it got Sony thinking. Maybe we'll see SOCOM back on PS either it be from PS2 or PS3. Would greatly appreciate it.
I recall everyone here completely and totally s**ting on MS when Phil Spencer floated this idea a couple months ago. So maybe no? Or has anything about this changed since then?
The answer is it doesn't affect any consumers unless you buy it, and then it is positive lol
I think it depends. I would hate for it to alienate the player base if it had exclusive titles and such.
As usual, like microsoft releasing x1 exclusive, quantum break on PC, the problem here is intentional deception to try and mislead consumers. Those of us (and there are many) who faithfully supported Sony by buying into their platform were misled into believing there would be no ps4.5 a couple of years later. If theyd explained that ps4 was a temporary console then consumers wouldnt have been fucked over as they will be if this is released unexpectedly. Changing the rules halfway through any game is a cheat.
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