VideoGamer: "Some players may decry Sony's decision to revise the console, but it's been a long time coming."
natural evolution to buy new consoles every 3 years now? Wow.. talk about forward thinking. My wallet is super excited at that. Seriously, how will devs plan for games accordingly if it takes like 2 years to make them? By the time the game releases there could be a new console from the manufacturer on the horizon. And bringing up games for the N64 that required the expansion pack is a poor example. The expansion pack costed about as much as a game did. In fact, it even CAME with one game. If Sony let me pay a marginal fee to upgrade me to the new system that would be fine. But they aren't doing that are they? I have to pay for an entire new console.
You don't have to buy it. If the leaks are correct and it appears likely that they are. There will be no exclusive features or content. All games must to current levels of performance on the current model just will have optional better graphics/frame rate etc on the new model/higher resolution. Settings that exist on pc anyway and as the architecture is similar it actually does make sense tbf.... So you dobt have to buy a new console every 3 years more like every 6 you simply can if you wish to. The console hardware changes slightly through a consoles lifetime anyway. Also places like ganestop or GAME in the UK etc will run trade ij deals when this launches just like they do when slim console launch usually.
I get Sony wanting to keep the the PS4 and Neo community connected, but if they don't take advantage of the new specs than what is the point? If games are still being designed to PS4 specs, they would be limiting the potential of this console for the sake of parity. I am getting PSVR and if this console can make that experience better I want them to take advantage of that.
I fully understand that this is optional. But for how long remains to be seen. Right now Sony is saying all the right words, but devs may decide that they don't want to waste their time making two versions. Or they may want to just push for the better version since they can do more.
@Neonridr "devs may decide that they don't want to waste their time making two versions. Or they may want to just push for the better version since they can do more." By that logic developers shouldn't make games for the Xbox 1, it is weaker and the install base for it is ~1/2 of what the PS4 is now.(OG PS4 is going to have a larger install base than NEO for years...)
@neon... "Those worried about fragmenting developer support can rest easy for the moment: GiantBomb's sources suggested that Sony will not allow any NEO-only games to be developed or allow the two userbases to be separated in any way." http://arstechnica.com/gami...
Ima all in.
@Neonridr "but devs may decide that they don't want to waste their time making two versions" If they're forcing developers to make 60fps+ games for vr then they can also force them to make two versions of their games.
PC games are doing this for years. You can scale with the power you have. Same will happen for the PS4 with the "PS4 Classic" being the lowest common denominator. Assets and all will be on one disk running on either machine. Not so much more work for devs if 90% of the game remains the same.
My McDonald's money got me a 2016 gtr and itll get me psvr and the rumored ps4 if true. Good thing i can afford the things i want by working hard and saving my money
@cindy - sure it did :P
I'm not going to be buying it. For $400 more I'd rather just upgrade my computer or simply save it. If I had known this was how consoles were going to go I wouldn't have even bought a PS4 in the first place. And it's easy to see a future where the original PS4 works but plays games at like 10 FPS because the game was made for the newer model. Bottom line, I'm just not interested in buying new consoles every few years.
@Neonridr "devs may decide that they don't want to waste their time making two versions." It isn't two versions of the same game. Think of it like a PC game where there are graphics settings depending on how powerful your system is. That's all this is, except instead of near infinite combinations of PC hardware, there's only two. They'll, ideally, build the game for base mode. If it runs on Neo mode, they can crank up the settings for higher res, higher framerate, better shadows, draw distance, whatever...
the only thing that stopped consoles from dong this before was fear of the user-base reset but Sony learned from the streamlined architecture+dev-tools of smartphones that make the sames games run on multiple generations of hardware and are applying that to consoles. those who don't see a big enough upgrade can just wait another 3 years and get the inevitable PS4 Trinity(?!)
Current games can barely have a stable 30fps (Fallout 4, The Witcher 3, Just Cause 3), you really think that with better hardware devs won't make games worst on the original? There won't be any exclusives, but I'm sure a lot of them will be almost unplayable. Just look at the New 3DS, Hyrule Warriors on the original has really a hard time maintaining 30fps.
From what little info there is about this I would be okay with it assuming it's accurate. If this is basically gonna be a more powerful PS4 that can run games at 60 fps or better and not have exclusives to it then ok. I would say to kinda think of it like a PC. A lower tier PC can run a game fine but a better one can run the same game on ultra. That game still works for the lower tier systems but the game will take advantage of better hardware. I think this is a good idea. What I don't think is a good idea is doing this after the fact. This should have started with the PS4 or PS5 so consumers had a choice from the get go but now it seems as if they are being forced to buy something even though the reality is you don't need this new SKU. Basically I think there would be a lot less backlash if Sony did this at the start of this gen instead of half way into it. Still the idea of maybe being able to play Bloodborne at 60 fps makes me excited. But I guess we have to just wait and see what comes out of E3.
yeah, this is not as big of a deal as many are making it out to be...there has yet to be an official announcement on any of the real details, but if the hardware upgrade specs are correct: It appears to basically be using something around an underclocked R9 280x. It has a few extra CU's, but is down about 250mhz from the desktop version 'performance' models...That is a safe current mid range card for 1080/60fps with mostly high game settings (that completely depends on a lot of factors, though)...and that is with DX11.x, which has far more overhead than the PS4's api... So, overall...its definitely a card capable of 1080/60fps in the PS4's case...this should FINALLY make that a platform minimum... but, that is about all it will do...Its not so much more powerful that it will result in developers having to make completely new assets and content from the ground up...it'll just burn through current gen games much more efficiently...and making a title scalable between a pair of hardware configurations is almost nothing... Lastly, I would highly suspect Sony will have some options for an upgrade...maybe a discount, or a trade type thing, etc...but people can't have it both ways...if you want to be an early adopter, its the risk you take...everyone interested in hardware was very much underwhelmed with the specs of even the ps4 (let alone the competition) if they had any idea how that stuff works...Offering a much more competitive machine mid gen like this at around the original console price is a great move imo...the only alternative was a far shorter generation overall...
Why wouldn't you want exclusive content at some point in time though?to just have better versions of PS4 games?I don't even think there's that much games out there to justify this purchase,aside from VR maybe to those having an interest in the new hype. Wouldn't this be exactly like upgrading a PC?i have tried to use multiple reasons and angles to justify this beyond having a HDMI 2.0 support for 4K but i can't find that many reasons.Unless of course you don't own a PS4 already.to those people it seems a great deal. (I probably would've felt the same way just still not changing the fact that the 8th gen games so far do not really impress me that much)
Until developers start to target the PS4.5 and the PS4 verision is just barely passable. This already happened this generation with the new 3DS and Hyrule warriors. That game is basically unplayable on the original 3ds
If there are two versions a base version and a Neo version as they say will 1. Cost more for devs not just money but time. Someone will have to pay for that. 2. Will most likely slow down the rate of games being dev meaning longer wait for gamers. 3. Having two versions of games will not allow the dev to fully optimise for one hardware. This is similar to multip plat devs that normally don't take full advantage of the console like with 1st party. This is why I fear this route. I am not sure why Sony is trying to fix something that is not broken.
@cleft5 They can easily take full advantage of the new specs while not compromising the experience of the OG PS4 (And vice et versa) The current PS4 generally runs games well at 1080p @30 FPS. The new one is called the PS4K - and so it will run games at [email protected], [email protected], or even 4K for lesser games.
@EXT- pretty much what I've been saying since these rumors even started. Many people were not taking into account that a better running platform would not necessarily mean exclusive games as on PC we don't have games that are exclusive to gpus or exclusive to CPUs or anything like that you just have updates to fit your specific configuration. last generation we had multiple SKUs for those platforms yet games were still able to run on them, this is no different. To those saying what's the point if no one's taking advantage of the graphical effects, the point is to not fragment the install base isn't that what many have been crying about in the first place? The point of the new hardware is to have the base as the PlayStation 4 and to have the 4.5 only be used to raise frame rate and resolution and other visual effects. That is actually how that works on PC that is why console games will run better on certain PC builds because those games have been made using lower targets thus on any higher PC build by default it will always run better simply because it was not created specifically, exclusively to run on that build. If you want to know why many PC games on certain gpus will run better than their console counterparts this is why... In order to have the performance in terms of frame rate and resolution by default always better the games will always be made using the base of the PlayStation 4 not the 4.5. The 4.5 specs are not to make the game there merely to make the game better after being finished.
People buy $600 phones every 18 months. This is not a new console, just a higher spec'd old one. It's mostly for VR to have a better experience wince it does need the highest tech. If you don't want it, then don't buy it. If you just got a PS4, well it is the same if you buy a phone or PC and a new one comes out a week later. Sorry about your luck. I see it as a choice, not mandatory not a NEW 3DS.. It's odd, but not the end of the world.
@Neonridr That's not how development works. The game assets they use are huge and well above what a console can handle, then they scale it back till they get the frame rate and resolution they want, A good example is lets say an explosion with a lot of particle effects causes the frame rate to dip from 30 fps to 25 fps, they will scale it down so they can lock the fps at 30, however the PS 4.5 won't need this extra work as they can leave the effect as is due to the slightly higher processing power.
NO exclusive features or content? Then why make it in the first place? Because they dont want to have to come down on the price down the road? Maybe?
Why does everyone think there going to upgrade the graphics card? What the ps4.5 will be is smaller gpu/cpu to lower cost. Then have capabilities to play 4k UHD bluray disks. Stream anything that can do 4k like netflix and maybe upscale where it will upscale everything like ps4 games. I just bought a Samsung 4k bluray player that connects to my receiver where I bypass it to upscale everything to 4k. Got no movies yet for it but I got it for Deadpool movie which is coming out in 4k UHD. I was mad that Star Wars VII decided not release a 4k version. I'm waiting hoping they do. Because I garenteed it was filmed in 4k
The only issue could be ( pure speculation so it might not be a problem) if they release an improved game for a new ps4 and people find it barely playable on the old one. Imagine if it was taxing enough so it dropped to 5-10 fps constantly. That would be my concern. Of course they could use fully scalable development tools allowing them to scale the resolution and effects to whatever is required such as 720p with no shadows etc. In this case its perfectly fine. Bare in mind an upgraded ps4 may also come with a much bigger price.
In case this PS4 upgrade exists, i need to see exactly what it has to offer compared to the existing. tbh if 4K gaming is the only thing it will provide, i am not ready to buy it atm because i do not have a 4K TV and i am not planning on getting one before i am sure it will become mainstream (unlike 3D). It wouldn't make sense that it has games developed especially for this PS4K, but as far as VR support goes i can see exclusive PS4K VR support for some more demanding games.
Sony knows their VR solution is underpowered and underwhelming no matter what the fanatical support from their fan base states. Oculus and Vive will have ever increasing graphics capabilities throughout their lifespan due to the upgrability of PCs. This appears as a desperate move to sale more units at the expense of alienating their current installation base with inferior hardware.
"All games must to current levels of performance on the current model just will have optional better graphics/frame rate etc on the new model/higher resolution." if you believe that, you're naive.
If Sony doesn't want everyone even those who already purchased a PS4 to buy one then why would they make and sell one?
Yeah, but there's a major problem lying behind a "then don't buy it". For example, and being totally honest, being a PS fan I still don't own a PS4. The reason being that's always sure there will be a slim model, a bit cheaper and I'll buy it with more then one or two games. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who actually think this way. Now, if a cosmetic change can make people to make the choice of not buying a console at launch, what will make the "there'll be a more powerful mid-season console" mindset? "Oh, PS5. But we all know there will be a PS 5,5, a but more powerful. Let's wait two years. You don't have to buy it". It's not a natural evolution of a console cycle. It'll end up by predating itself.
@ Neonridr - As pointed out by extermin8or, no one is forcing you to buy an upgraded PS4, why do you feel the need to complain about it? I think it's a great OPTION (not requirement) for people who want a boost to the existing PS4 console, and a great idea. It seems like the people complaining about this upgraded model just aren't thinking things through very well, and are just complaining for no good reason.
so when exclusive content does release because devs don't want to waste time and money making 2 different versions.. you will start to see my way. Right now it all sounds rosy. But this could be setting a precedent. What if Sony decides to be more like Apple and release a yearly machine instead? Still think this is a good option? I am not complaining for the sake of complaining. Console gamers used to make fun of PC gamers because of the continual need to upgrade whereas console gamers had a machine set in stone for the entire generation. Guess that argument is going out the window since consoles are going to be more like PC's moving forward.
@Neonridr "Console gamers used to make fun of PC gamers because of the continual need to upgrade" But if the OG PS4 plays all the games the same as it would have before/after NEO came out why do people NEED to upgrade? "so when exclusive content does release because devs don't want to waste time and money making 2 different versions" There isn't some big change in the hardware, its all the same running at slightly faster speeds. As for why they would do a second slightly different verison would be because the OG PS4 install base is still going to be big, I mean it is ~2x the Xbox One why wouldn't they make the game work for it...by your logic no multiplat game should even bother with the One
@Neonridr I agree which is why I think the no exclusive content clause is vital for this to work. Sony has the ability to approve what games can be sold on their consoles so this could work in theory. Consoles don't sell anywhere near enough to where they can release them yearly. They also don't sell for much of a profit like iphones do. So i don't see this becoming a yearly release. The console argument doesn't really go out the window. I think it just changes. The standard for all games created for the ps4 will be the base version of the console with an upgraded version that runs the games better.
I think it's more so the fact that people feel the need to upgrade to not have the inferior product. I honestly don't see Sony making exclusives for it. The system will just have games that perform better than the OG PS4 version. I'm buying it since I usually by the slim models every life cycle so let's see how this turns out.
@thatguy 310, exactly. PC upgrades were only ever 'needed' to get the most out of the game, until you got to a generational shift where dated hardware simply wouldn't load it...which is no different than consoles to begin with. PC has always struggled with optimization, but always excelled at choice...This upgraded PS4 could potentially be the first time a console hardware company finds an acceptable middle ground...pay a little more, run the games better...save a little money, and compromise performance...the PC market has never been able to balance that very well, even though that is what's written on the box... the only negative is that early buyers of consoles are now kind of confused that this unsustainable safety bubble of having a single device running state of the art games for 8 years...is dying...
I can sum it up without complaining. Basically, it ushers in a mentality of cross-gen ports being the norm. Since publishers have shown the cross gen port mentality is little more than an afterthought to avoid losing sales to the older generation, and put as little effort into them as possible, it's not something I look forward to. On top of that, the "next gen" ports are usually nothing better than visual upgrades, with some performance gains which have nothing to do with game design....so again, it doesn't foster a sense of trying to exceed with what's given, but rather forces devs to design their games around the old hardware, and do as little as possible to support the newer hardware, because graphics are all that matters for the newer hardware.
@Neonridr If doesn't matter what devs want, Sony will mandate that all titles must support the original PS4 for some number of years. I predicted that this is how this gen would go before it even launched, it's the obvious way to go now that they are x86 based. We'll get an updated console every 2-4 years that will be fully backwards compatible. Devs will need to target the old gens along with the new gen. But Sony needs to make an official statement when they announce the updated PS4 that the original PS4 will be supported for x years after it's production ends. That will make sure that the more cost sensitive consumers won't be afraid to buy the old PS4.
@super. If the devs poorly optimize the base version and focus more on the Neo version.... isn't that something we should worry about?
@Neonridr THe documents in the leak states that the ONLY NEO version games will have over "Base" PS4 games is Better Frame rates, better graphics and higher resolution... We see this kind of thing now with PS4 vs XBO with Devs optimizing engines and games to support the PS4 simply because its more powerful, where games on PS4 typically get higher resolution and higher more stable framerates and some improved graphical assets over the XBO counter parts... Sony's policy apparently mandates that Base PS4 games will remain and perform as they always do, while Neo PS4 games must exceed... So perfect example. given current limitations of Base PS4... a multiplatform game like Battlefront... a developer making the game for 3 platforms now XBO: 720p 60fps unlocked- - PS4: "base" 900p 60fps unlocked - PS4 "Neo" with its 2.3TFlops of performs should be optimised to run at 1080p and perhaps 60fps locked with better graphic assets, higher res textures and better lighting and particle effects more inline with the PC. There WILL BE NO Neo exclusive Games or Game features that fragment the two versions... all this is a PS4 that has more umph to make games look even prettier, shiner and more stabler and by the looks of it, games can be patched, which means existing games like say Uncharted 4 which would be patched to Neo standards would LOOK and PLAY better because ND could theoretically use HIGHER resolution assets and afforded by the CPU and GPU upgrades as well as the memory. Given that i have my PS4, if this new One is going to launch this year and be priced at $400, I dont mind trading in my current one and getting a PS4 Neo. Before we all jump to conclusions tho, why dont we wait for Sony to come out and confirm it all in June... They are having a DEVCON summit next month where this will be discussed i'm sure by then more information will leak and give us better insight
It may not be forced but it's shitting on those who don't want the upgrade. I will now have an inferior version of game than someone who owns a PS4 Neo. And yet I will be paying the same price for that game. That is shitty. If this was a PS5, a totally different console, with a significant upgrade on hardware PS4 games would go down in price, just like PS3 games did. But since it's not a new console, they can get away with not lowering the price. So again whilst it's not forced, those who don't upgrade get the shit on.
The point is, this move is new to Sony family and we know that in the very end the old PS4 owners will be screwed and left with no option, Sony never did this and by doing this it will create a precedent, how can they divide the PS4 user base and keep fairness? The way i see it they shouldn't bring a new console they should take advantage of they advantage in the gaming arena and i don't doubt the developers would embrace if they keep it real with gamers who made the PS4 what it is now, they don't need to make everything to have the more powerful console on the market we need the better games, they are in love with developers this time around and Nintendo with the more powerful console will have to win them over... i will by if they release NEO but i really think they should focus on the PS4 has it is because power don't translate to better gaming experiences (most of the times)
I don't get why Sony needs to do this since they have won everything that matters this gen and they keep gaining momentum... Why fragment your user base when you are well ahead? These leaks mention that they[Sony] will enforce parity of content, but who in their right mind believes that devs will actually take the time to develop the whole game and optimize it for the OG ps4 and then port to the PS4K (not to mention the xbox and PC) you know the only right way to do this. I mean look at all those bad PC ports we have now and tell me you actually believe they'll do their best on essentially 4 platforms now or even 5 if the xbox one.5 is true as well when they wouldn't bother with 3!! Then there's the fact (concerning those who already own a ps4) that a new Nintendo console is coming and if they return to form(N64) I will buy one as will many others...add to that the PSVR and what you have left, or rather dont have, is the cash to buy another ps4. There are asking too much off us. Personally, I believe they should not release this in 2016; late 2017 is the smartest choice, but how do they address all these '100% true' leaks? If they don't, we might see a huge decline in ps4 sales due to people holding off for the new version. I don't like how things are shaping up these days, and if MS joins this mid-cycle upgrade trend as well, we my friends better be ready for a new Console-iPhone age (or go back to PC gaming). Gaming is surely becoming prohibitively expensive... I sense a major distress in the force o_O
"As pointed out by extermin8or, no one is forcing you to buy an upgraded PS4, why do you feel the need to complain about it?" Sony is most definitely forcing everyone to buy an upgraded PS4. This will turn out to be exactly the same as cross gen development. It will be a waste of resources for developers to make multiple versions so they just won't.
You probably have a smart phone that costs roughly the same amount as these gaming consoles and they're updated every year or two years. If you approach gaming consoles as each year or 3 has a significant jump in performance which allows you to game with a far greater experience each time, also with some type of income to pay for technology which in the long run helps support the company you so choose, you'd be less salty and more open minded that you're part of the system wether you like it or not because you already helped prove this business plan by owning a smart phone device. Magic.
I have a job, and a wife, and a kid, and a mortgage, 2 cars, bills, the whole nine yards. I am fully aware of responsibilities in life, so spare me your conjecture. I don't buy a smartphone every year like many others. My phone is fine for the length of my contract or more. Why would I want to shell out a few hundred dollars to get the S7 when my S6 is perfectly fine? And my smartphone did not cost as much as my PS4 did.
Mine cost $850 :( and I just wanted the big ass screen
@Neondir if it doesn't bother you that Samsung released an S7 while you have an S6, why does it bother you that Sony are following a similar pattern?
@neonridr so do you sit in smartphone articles every 6 months complaining about the newer versions? If it works fine why upgrade. That would be the new ps4 system. You will not have to upgrade because it works fine. Just like your phone. Sony is well known for their support of their systems... Why would that end?
Except cellphones are a utility and a video game console is not. Making that comparison is just stupid, for one a cell-phones residual value will always be higher. That would not be the case for the crappier PS4 once the " neo" launches. Not to mention it fragments your entire user base, to one with weaker hardware. This leaves easy space for developers to optimize more on the more powerful hardware and not really bother with the weaker. If you wanted to upgrade every 3 years to better hardware? WTF are you on consoles? lol jump to PC its the same notion with better graphics and cheaper games.
@volkama. Because the console market is different from the smartphone market. I don't want the console market to be the same as the smartphone market.
But there aren't as many gamers as there are people interested in phones, or the internet, or tv. Those multimedia outlets have a much larger market than games.
So PlayStation is basically becoming a PC designed to play games, and you can upgrade it every couple of years. With PS NEO, there could even be tiered console levels, just like the Steam Box. Not very innovative...
Sony phones bombed because Sony released an upgrade every 6 months, which is half of the expected time before an upgrade is usually released. This would be be 3 years after launch, which is also half of the expected life time. It wouldn't be a problem if it was an add on upgrade (ala LG G5), but a whole new unit is bad for early consumers.
Yeah the phone costs the same but the apps and games don't. Simpsons tapped out doesn't have better graphics on iPhone 6 compared to 5. My phone calls, texts, apps ect all work exactly the same. Most phones also let you pay monthly for 2 years. The phones improvements are not compairable to this Neo upgrade.
@Neonridr Well said...hell im still using an S3!
It takes longer than 2 years to make games usually.
Keep using your ps4, all games are required to work on it, other people want a more powerful ps4 and that really dioeant affect you
But I preordered my PSVR. If there is going to be some significant advantage to the Neo or if the base PS4 will suffer because of it, then it sort of forces my hand doesn't it?
@neonridr for the fact we are talking about a rumor with absolutely no proof what so ever, nothing forces your hand. In fact, the best proof out there for a new console is on the Microsoft side with a patent pending and a user manual locked till after e3 soooo If you can not afford both psvr and a new console, you buy what you do not have and save up for the other. We are talking about luxury items of life. You are not entitled and the market should not bend over for you. Life is not that hard. Be educated.
But it does affect you. Because not only do developers have to devote extra time and resources to 2 versions of the game now but they are also required to be bundled together. There is a very legit concern that my install just got larger than it should be because a portion of the install will be used to address something that doesn't affect the hardware that I'm running and that also takes up space on my HDD.
First of you don't have to pay for a new console. Every game that will release on Ps4 will be backwards campatible which already is a good thing. And now rethink the hole every 3 year cycle argument. Let's say they build it all on x86 architecture that means that every game from now on will be backwards campatible. They have the chance to build a hole new ecosystem for consoles and that would be great. Image that you can visit the same store ten years from now and you could still buy or reload all those awesome games that released over the past decade. At first i was totally against it but the more you think about all those benefits the better it gets. And they don't even force us to do so. It's all about choice and consumer freedom. Hopefully they pull this of the right way :)
"Seriously, how will devs plan for games accordingly" Develop game for base mode. Turn up the framerate, resolution, or other items for Neo mode. Does it run? Ship.
There is no one to blame for the XB1.5 and PS Neo's existance except gamers. Sony released the PS3 with its incredibly powerful (albeit hard to develop for cell architecture) coupled with all amenities and a BluRay drive... People complained about the price MASSIVELY. In response to this next time around Sony went for an easier to develop for machine with mid level off the shelf parts with an extremely affordable price tag... Peole complained that both the XB1 and PS4 were not powerful enough. Now we find ourselves with constant backlash and complaining about FPS and resolution... This is the result, the PS Neo. You have yourselves to blame. BOTH MS and Sony are trying to offer gamers what they say they want and yet when they do all they get back is a sh1tstorm of abuse. They can't do right for doing wrong.
Is the human nature :(
You can complain and may not like it but from a business perspective people love buying new things. Gamers will still buy base PS4s, some will upgrade, new comers will have options.Sony continues getting units into homes. I think the Neo might force Microsoft's hand sooner than they wanted. If they do launch an upgrade then they need to market it as a brand new Xbox more powerful than either the Neo or NX. They absolutely cannot use Xbox One again.
I don't understand why Sony of all the console manufacturers feels the need to make an upgraded console. The PS4 is selling like hot cakes. This will only unsettle potential buyers of future console generations. I certainly won't pay another $400 for an upgraded version of a console I already own. Most devs probably won't put the extra work in to make it worthwhile. I also think that when the PS5 comes out it'll probably be able to play all the PS4 games in "neo mode" as well.