When Does Difficulty Become Frustration?

Player 2 Editor Matt Hewson looks at the reasons why he just can't enjoy the Souls games despite knowing how good they actually are.

[Paytaa]

When you fight Ornstein and Smough.

[seanpitt23]

I think the more you play it the better you become I have completed all the dark souls and bloodborne and have just received my copy of dark souls 3 so going to dive in that world later.

[BiggerBoss]

That fight was the WORST (doesn't help I was using a lighting weapon)

Finally beating it though was the greatest feeling ever, and that's why Dark Souls shouldn't allow an "easy mode"

[Tdmd]

I've always though that 4Kings was harder.

[wsoutlaw87]

Really? If you used the right weapons you could kill them as they come.

[joab777]

No. When it's based on a broken game. Either lag or broken code. DS is fair and when you die it's your fault. This is not frustration. At least for me frustration is when you can't do anything because the game isn't working as intended, or it is but it was built wrong.

[ZaWarudo]

Just git gud.

Seriously, these games are some of the most rewarding gaming experiences out there.

[freshslicepizza]

it becomes an issue when it's due to the control issues and if the part of the game becomes really cheap. if i keep dying in a game and it's because i am stuggling with the controls i simply stop playing. that is poor design and some games actually won't allow you to customize your controls. other games for example a boss requires multiple hits but if you get even a whiff of a hit you instantly die. that is cheap. neither scenario is acceptable to me.

but if experience pays off like the souls games then that to me is perfectly acceptable. you can learn from your mistakes. i just don't like some of the controls they give you.

[wsoutlaw87]

Thats what the creators of the souls games have been saying. It just needs to be fair. If you mess up and die then its your fault and easily fixable. Every boss is learnable, you just have to pay attention. If you have trouble in a souls game you can also just level up, or invite a friend.

[Hoffmann]

When Does Difficulty Become Frustration?

When you are not able to understand how to beat bosses/levels/opponents

Or if you are just not able to press a button fast enough sometimes.

I know people that can't even dash forward in Street Fighter.

[Mr Lahey]

When you need to git gud..

[SlightlyRetarted]

During boss fights, does the liquor do the thinking, Mr Lahey?

[OpenGL]

He can't enjoy it because he's trying to play Souls like any other game and is unwilling to learn its mechanics or enemy movesets.

[sadsatan]

i gave up on bloodborne too. didn't find any enjoyment from endless dying, for an entire month. i stick to games that make me feel good

[Mikeyy]

I just started it the other day for the first time. I've probably died 30 times already. 1 on 1 with normal enemies is no problem I dodge and attack them just fine. It's when 3 or more come your way is when there is a problem, the targeting system gets me killed a lot too. While I'm so busy dodging the enemy I'm not locked onto moves closer and I dodge the guy behind him so naturally I'm not far enough away.

I'm still on the first level lmao, I'm just trying to grind and up my stats a bit to help me out. Accidentally stumbled onto the cleric beast and surprisingly got him down about a third of his health. My weapon was doing pitiful damage to him.

I discovered that molotovs make short work of the big dudes, because they will 1 shot you if you walk into one of their combos. Died a bunch to those guys...

[SpinalRemains138]

Yeah u have to learn to use your right stick to aim while you're not locked on. It is a Souls must.

Certain enemies are easier via the manual way.

[BiggerBoss]

My cousin started playing a couple weeks ago. He spent many hours in the first area before he started to get a hang of the mechanics. Now though, he's hooked;)

[nitus10]

In Bloodborne you adopt a much more aggressive attitude than in the Souls series where you can use a shield.

You can get a shield in Bloodborne although I personally don't recommend it.

If I remember rightly you are given the choice of a Cleaver, Axe or a Whip/Cane when you first enter Hunters's Dream.

I have found that the Axe is a short to medium strength weapon and is excellent for taking out multiple enemies while the Whip/Cane is a skill weapon and is great for taking out enemies at a longer distance. The cleaver is basically a short range and faster weapon.

Then there is the choice of the pistol for single targets or a blunderbuss which has a wider spread but less power.

You will be able to get pebbles. Don't think these are useless, they are excellent to annoy individual enemies so you can lure them away from the crowd.

I actually found the Cleric beast first and was destroyed since my level and skill were too low. You need to be comfortable in taking out the ogre like beasts (eg. the one pounding on the gate) and the man beasts (sort of a cross between a human and a werewolf) before you try the Cleric beast or you can summon Father Gascoigne at the empty fountain.

Note: If you find Father Gascoigne first before you attempt the Cleric beast (I did this by myself at level 15) you won't be able to summon him.

Hint: When you do eventually fight Father Gascoigne (I beat him at level 24) the Whip is very useful and a special item can help at the later stages of the fight only. Then use weapons that you should always carry with you and don't forget to dodge because if you get cornered then it's all over.

Don't be afraid of dying since I died over 30 times in this fight before I finally worked out what to do and how to go about doing it.

[Imalwaysright]

When you let it...

[Master-H]

When you're a scrub.

[JamesBroski]

When it's cheap

[ShaunCameron]

It seems that the industry (developers namely) hasn't fully moved on from the arcade mindset.

[detroitmademe]

When the difficulty feels cheap is when it's a problem. Also when you don't fully understand how to complete the given task. Most other challenges are cool tho because at the end of the day there's a rewarding feeling too be had when you complete whatever task is at hand.

[LoveSpuds]

I never found the campaign of Bloodborne frustrating, it was enthralling however, beating some of the chalice bosses to get my platinum nearly broke me.

The last fight before you reach the Pthumerian Queen had be stumped for two whole days....the rush when he eventually snuffed it was worth all the frustration and I am still buzzing from my platinum trophy 4 days later!

[BiggerBoss]

If you got the Bloodborne platinum, I'd say you're better than the average gamer and this article isn't really addressing you :p

[LoveSpuds]

Not at all, it was just determination and learning to play the game. Its not a gamers ability that stops them playing hard games, its their lack of patience as they want instant gratification from their games.

[PaleMoonDeath]

By the power of "Git Gud" you will prevail, every damn time.

[Psychotica]

When you are in the middle of a boss fight and you got piss like a rushing race horse...

[SegaGamer]

I'm someone who prefers easy games, i like a bit of a challenge, but i don't see the fun in getting in a rage to the point where you are shouting every swear word you can think of in one sentence.

[BiggerBoss]

You don't see the fun in finally beating an impossible boss you've spent forever on? Must be a younger gamer. The souls series is really reminiscent of old-school games.

[SegaGamer]

I have been playing games since i was about 5 ( i'm 27 now ) I have raged that many times at games over the years that it's got to the point where i just want to avoid really challenging games. The good feeling of finally beating something you have been trying to beat for so long doesn't last long enough for me.

[nitus10]

If you are someone who prefers easy games then that is fine, so then you have to realise that games made by From Software are not for you and get games that you can play.

For instance if you play The Witcher 3 on easy then that is fine however you really can't appreciate the overall mechanics of the game until you play on the harder difficulties. Play and complete TW3 without complaining and changing the difficulty setting the White Orchard area (ie. first area) on "Death March" and you will love Bloodborne.

[Night99]

It is for everyone individual when difficulty becomes Frustration and this is exactly the reason why several difficultymodes and options is the best solution, everyone can choose what he wants and play a game the way he can enjoy it.

[nitus10]

Ok sounds fine until you realise that the Souls series and Bloodborne have an on-line component.

Put an easy mode into DS or Bloodborne and you would have to take out the on-line component since it would be like giving the wolf the keys to the hen house, so even though the game may be easy the PvP won't and somehow I do think we will hear plenty of winging about that.

What next press "X" to skip a boss battle because the "poor" player finds it too hard or better yet you to can have the ancient sword of cut-em-up for a mere $7.00 which will defeat the first five bosses with the last one being defeated in 5 hits, then for another $10.00 you can get the sword of buggery that will take out the next three bosses in three hits.

Oh yes just what we all needed "pay to win" but hey as long as its strokes the unskilled masses egos then who cares.

Now I am going to asked where do I get the the ancient sword of cut-em-up and the sword of buggery --- Sigh!

[Night99]

I don't think the online component affects the singleplayer, it would not be a problem with difficultymodes, there are already a lot of games heavily focused on competitive multiplayer like Halo or Call of Duty and they all have several difficulty options for singleplayer. People who want to dedicate a huge load of time into 1 game and want to get seriously attached to a multiplayer don't play the games on easymode anyways. You know I don't think the guys who still play Halo 5 every weekend are the ones who play the Halo story on easy, they are the ones who play on heroic or legendary. And all the other people who just want to enjoy some time with the story and don't want to get dedicated that much drop anyways always fast out. This not changes if you add several difficulty modes for singeplayer or not. There are a lot of Souls players already who maybe never even try multiplayer or just try a few matches and than drop out.

And plus I have a lot ot trust in From Software, I am 100% sure they would find solutions to make this fair and good for everyone. You know I don't get how people who claim to be Soulsfans don't trust From Software to nail this, especially because there are already other games who doing it.

[assdan]

The author spent multiple paragraphs talking about a learning curve. Dark souls has a steep learning curve that The several hours to several days to start getting decent at the game.

[nitus10]

"Dark souls has a steep learning curve."

Why is that a problem?

If you are going to get good at anything then you have to start at the bottom and work your way up. Basically the Souls series and Bloodborne are an equal playing field. Yes some take to these games easily while others have to work at it a bit like life in general.

[assdan]

Sorry, I should have been more clear, I was trying to say that complaining about a learning curve is stupid. Some games have steeper ones than others.

[Bobafret]

I can accept being killed because I suck, but cannot accept a crap camera, which the Souls games have.

[Kryptix]

I've seen people that aren't even good at those type of games beat it on Twitch. People that specialize in Counter Strike and other shooters, rarely playing rpgs like these.

It's about learning from mistakes. The game doesn't give you all these random encounters when you restart from a safe point. You learn new tactics as you go. Learn when enemies are about to attack, predict their movement, their charge up time, their range. Make a class that you know you'll be good at, not one that you want to try out. If you're good at dodging, go Dex, good at keeping your distance...make a mage.

Spend the currency, souls you collect wisely. Always cover your weaknesses and prioritize on 2 stats, 3 if you know what you're doing.

Die, but die with honor.

[SlightlyRetarted]

I love how salty people are right now when DS3 is releasing in few days and having great reviews.

[quent]

Frustration in defeat, elation in victory, with literal heart pounding moments, is what makes a souls game.