During Microsoft's Build 2016 Developer Conference, Xbox boss Phil Spencer held a small roundtable to discuss the changes coming to Xbox One and Windows gaming.
Wait...wasn't Phil the first one to actually talk about upgrade able consoles that then lead to all these rumors now? Now he want's to move forward in big numbers? Or am I reading this all wrong? Does this mean that he's literally not a fan of maybe a slight upgrade hence the 1.5 but still might like the idea of an upgrade like type of console.
he may be open to the idea down the road, but that doesn't mean that he necessarily wants to implement any of that thinking in the current generation.
Maybe he isn't a fan of the branding of "Xbox one and a half" as in that name isn't all that great and there could be something better people can come up with. I'm not a fan of that name either same with PS4.5. If there is to be these mid gen upgrades then they have to have a catchy name (although PS4k is kind of catchy).
Smh^^^^ What kind of state is the gaming community in now? We used to be a respectable bunch...now, not so much. Even the jokes are tasteless.
@kingTRASH Get over yourself
@kingthrash As if you don't partake in the fanboyism, with your constant attempts to doom and gloom Sony's competitors and downplay any thing positive they do.
It sounds like Xbox One.Five will ditch the XB-one name. It makes sense because it separates it from the history of the last console. But will it help or hinder them in kicking of a new generation early?..
PS4k, is catchy- although I am still on the fence with all these news.
Guys, you know what it is... As soon as PS4K proves to be a good idea they will jump in.. Now he's just kinda playing it diplomatic They're specialists of u-turns after all... He says he isn't a BIG fan, it could mean that he's just a fan atm...
Neonridr, definitely agree with you. Just trying to get into Phils head, I figure something like an Upgradeable Xbox would be something they would plan from launch and that would be marketed as such from the very beginning kind of thing. To introduce that halfway through the current cycle is something he doesn't like as it will divide the fanbase and confuse casual system buyers I guess. My thinking on why he dislikes the idea right now anyways.
'XBox One plus' or 'XBox One Elite' would work, wouldn't it?
He was just talking to a fan. And who knows, an upgradeable console has probably been considered for the next xbox. It was more like he wasn't trying to either deny it or confirm it.
You are right but I guess you have to decipher when he is in PR mode or not. Its getting harder to tell.
From what I understand, Phil hasn't ruled out a mid-gen upgrade. It seems to me that he's in fact suggesting a substancial upgrade if required.
He doesn't deny they're releasing a more powerful console. Phil has a knack for saying stuff but not really saying anything.
Because if any of these execs say anything, even if it's not 100% confirmed within the company itself, journalism sites and gamers take it as gospel. Same reason Sony isn't saying anything about the PS4K until they're 1001% ready to confirm or deny it. You have to be careful what you say in this industry
I think you're right on the money, Gangsta. As others above me have suggested, the possibility exists that when MS initially talked about upgradeable consoles, they were talking about the vision they had for the next generation. They did talk about forwards compatibility at that time as well, possibly meaning that XB1 would play XB2 titles when it launches. Speculation about the announcement appears to be the only thing that led to the idea of a 1.5 console. It is fun to speculate about things as long as we don't end up expecting our hypotheses to come true.
Nah, new Xbox is still on-track. This is early PR jostling against Sony. He's trying to emphasise that the new console he's about to release is a super awesome powerhouse, and not a .5 half-step. Latching onto the rumour that ps4.5 is relatively cheap and positioning the xbox as a more worthwhile update...
I like the way you think Volkama.
Ps4.5 will probably be upscaled 4k. Native 4k requires a lot of power.
His comments were taken out of context. I think all he was saying was that he'd like a faster refresh cycle but that newer games would still scale down to the lowest common demoninator.
Gangsta, Im gonna go with the latter part of your comment. Now it has me wondering what kind of upgrade if any is on the way for Xbox.
It's like this and it's what many have speculated already. Phil started all this upgradable console crap. Floated the idea just to gauge reaction. Then all these Sony rumors start popping up about PS4K trying to tar Sony with the Microsoft brush just like they did with DRM until they had to actual acknowledge it and say no, were not doing that. Now, since no one likes the idea of buying new consoles mid gen he suddenly doesn't like the concept he created and is dusting his palms of it. That about sums it up.
Maybe he was just trying to get a gauge for what the hell Sony is doing. Microsoft's next box will be more powerful than Sony's next regardless.
"Microsoft's next box will be more powerful than Sony's next regardless" Just to let you know, that is exactly what people said last gen.
And whats that based on Spark? Wishful thinking? Dont make statements of your hopes and dreams as if they were facts. You dont even know for sure if MS will even have another console. Seems to me they are more likely to go the Steambox route. So if you dont know for sure if they will have another console you sure as hell cant claim it will be more powerful with any authority. Plus you just highlighted MS's biggest problem. More worried about what Sony is doing rather than making their own plan and sticking to it. Theyre never going to be out of Sonys shadow when they just keep reacting. If thats the way they want to go, I dont like the idea, but so be it, at least own it and make it your own. Not just put the notion out there, see if the others bite and then say yeah ok, I guess well do it now. Thats why MS has no VR, they want to see how the others do first rather than taking a chance and getting in on the ground floor. Then if its successful theyll simply buy an Occulus Rift version for Xbox rather than make something of their own.
I'm confused as to why people are disagreeing with my comment above... Last gen people where saying that the next Xbox was going to be more powerful than the PS4 because of Microsoft's infinite cash and that Sony wasn't going to be able to make a powerful system due to them being "on the verge of bankruptcy." Did people not say that last gen or am I making this stuff up? Anyway it comes down to what Bathyj pointed out don't make statements that you think, speculate, or want to happen as if it were a fact because as I've pointed out people did that last gen and look at what happened in reality.
You assume too much, Bathyj. He could just as easily be addressing the concept for the next Xbox, and not a mid-gen console as you contend. People only assume that because the XB1 is underpowered that it must be an XB1.5. Also, you call the UWP trying to do what Sony is? Seems like they have their own plan and they're sticking to it, contrary to your opinion stating otherwise. Furthermore, what's with all of the condescension about an upgraded XB1 possibility around here when all I see in the PS4.5 articles is how good of an idea it is? The double standard I keep witnessing is just ludicrous, even moreso when people keep it up over unsubstantiated rumors from both camps.
Well what has this debate been about all along. Mid gen upgrades. If I'm assuming, Im just going along with what the whole conversation has been about til now, not to mention all the assumption that Sony is doing it based on nothing more than MS appears to want to do it. Theres a lot of assumption going around, not just from me. I didnt say UWP was MS mimicking Sony, I meant thats their MO in general in the past. They dont march to the beat of their own drum enough. Theyre more concerned with what their competition is doing rather than whats going on in their own backyard. I will concede however that UWP is all theirs, but even that I feel is geared towards trying to win a war of attrition. They cant compete with Sony directly, so theyre just trying to turn consoles into PCs a place where Sony is irrelevant and theyre hoping next gen their PC/console hybrid can dominate. It feels like a castle siege to me, theyre just trying to starve Sony out not compete with them on an even playing ground. Plus dont accuse me of double standards because Ive said before I dont want there to be a PS4K either. Upgrading consoles mid gen is a terrible idea, I dont care who does it. It will splinter the userbase, cause resentment with early adopters and if it happens, next gen no one will want to buy a console knowing that a new one will be out in a couple years. It will also make things harder and more expensive for devs because the whole benefit if consoles is ONE fixed platform, and now that will not even hold true. Devs are going to have to cater to different levels like for PC and games will be buggier. This is going to cause long term harm to the industry I love. Mark my words. The sucky thing is if a PS4K does come out, I will probably buy it like an idiot rather than be left behind. I suppose Im a hypocrite then in that sense because if it exist I will want it, but trust me I will not be happy about its existence.
I realize that it seemed like I was accusing you personally about double standards,Bathyj, but it was not my intent. It was meant to be a more generalized statement geared towards the entire community. Sorry about that. We're all assuming at this point anyways, really, so let's be honest. I'm assuming MS was talking about XB2 at this point, but I have also considered what an XB1.5 might be in the past. You're assuming MS is talking about a mid gen console. Others are assuming there's going to be a PS4K. The real issue for me is that people are defending their points of view like they are gospel. Your comment, 11.1.3 for example, comes across rather harsh, especially in light of the fact that you're basing said comment largely off of your own beliefs and ignoring the fact that MS already stated that there would be another Xbox. That said, I mostly agree with you about the issues surrounding a mid gen console release.
haha yup, you are totally right...he specifically talked about mid cycle hardware upgrades like the mobile market has. Is this an instance of Spencer as Lucy pulling the football from Sony's Charlie Brown? It reminds me of the rumors from the beginning of this gen that Sony planned on doing the always online thing as well & pulled out at the last minute, leaving MS holding the bag...this might be Spencer playing a little game of payback. Now that he's heard rumblings of Sony doing it, he will move forward or not based off of the reception. Still think that XBO has had or still has something like this in the cards though.
Lucy...Thats perfect. https://s-media-cache-ak0.p...
Yeah first time I heard this idea was from Phil, last month I think. I'm personally worried about that idea and I'm not sure us console players are ready for those so cold visions but it seems both companies wanna change the game somewhat. I guess it will come down to the how fast this change will happen or who gets it right
He'd be more of a fan if he called it the Xbox One Point Five...which is conventional terminology for technology.
Wait is it 1.5 or 1 and 1/2 ?? And why not 361 ?! Seriously though, all of this because of 4K ?? Are they REALLY ready to deliver a 60 fps 4K resolution $400 dollar console? All this while also practically alienating everybody that already bought the Xbox One? I highly doubt it. Consoles are not cellphones, nor should they be treated like one. I like the idea that all subsequent models be 100% backward compatible with previous gen titles like any ol' PC. But I'm not sure frequently releasing incremental updates is the answer. Unless.... It IS a bona-fide 60 fps 4K resolution $400 dollar console. And I want a pony too.
Microsoft is a software company so ultimately MS is upgrading the Xbox One through each software update. I am calling it now an Xbox One slim incoming. Maybe in two years an all new Xbox. This generation will be longer and smaller at the same time since MS plans with UWP applications to give gamers on all Windows devices forward and backward compatibility.
I really don't see the benefit to all this for the console makers. Realistically, we all know that software is where they make the most money, more specifically license fees for other publishers to release games on their system. So lets put it in perspective. You have a company going into an endless R&D cycle to continuously push an upgraded version of whatever it is they currently have out. That costs money, then it costs more money to manufacture, market, and distribute the system to the masses. Given that the newest thing is likely to be picked up by the early adopters first anyhow, you now have this flood of old systems on the market which aren't going to be making Sony any money, as well as a new product which they will be taking a loss on because of the constant R&D, marketing, manufacturing, and distribution costs. A new console markup just isn't high enough to justify making it a reality. At most, companies are making around $30 over their manufacturing costs, which has to go to pay for all the aforementioned costs. But lets assume that these new consoles come out at the sweetspot price of $400. For $400, a person can purchase approximately 6-7 games. Now, the average licensing fee for a new game is around $10. That means that the console manufacturers are making $60-70, assuming all that money goes towards the purchase of new games...which is reasonable for someone that will upgrade. More if they sell the game on their digital storefront. All this revenue goes towards paying off the costs involved in designing, making, marketing, and distributing the console. Whatever is left over is profit. So, what makes more sense. 1. An endless production cycle where money is constantly thrown down the drain with no hope of recouperating initial investment, which divides the user base, and makes things more difficult on the developer. Or 2. Maximizing profit by relying on the software sales which are the bread and butter of all console makers. There's a reason that generations last as long as they do, and it's because the longer it goes on, the more profitable it is likely to be. When it comes down to it, for all intents and purposes, even if these machines are forward compatible, what we are essentially getting is a new generation of consoles. I really can't understand why this idea of an upgradeable console would even be entertained by a console maker...because it defies over 40 years of what makes consoles profitable.
Well I would speculate that Sony would want a 4k player for their TVs. Probably they figure upgrading the ps4 would entice a lot of people to buy 4k sets. It would also entice the video crowd as well. Remember how the PS3 was the cheapest blueray player when released. Right now Samsung released a $500 dol. blueray player and if they could come in under that and still play games. It could be a winner.
Exactly, upgradeable hardware consoles increase the costs of Sony and Microsoft.
Look at your points from another angle: 1. A continous production cycle, with gentle transitions to new hardware while retaining and building upon the established install bases 2. New hardware and software, starting from scratch with a strong brand and some loyal fans, but 0 owners. Option 1 might defy 40 years of console cycles, but it conforms to pretty much every other software-driven market.
@rlow A 4K player integrated in makes sense. But that doesn't affect the games in that case. It's more akin to a new slim version with a feature added, as opposed to being removed which is typical. In fact, that does make sense, because it could help drive hardware sales for those that are only casually looking for a game machine also...not unlike how BR drove sales of the PS3 early on. @Volk 1. That's not necesarrily bad, but it doesn't alleviate the point of reducing profit margins. It could work for the consumer however if implemented right. A lot of if it's good depends on how it's implemented on the back end in terms of compliance and continuing support for the older model. 2. Absolutely true. But initial sales are typically strong, which helps establish that base. If people become accustomed to a continuing cycle, then they are less likely to get excited for new hardware, which means it takes longer for people to recoup. However, it does give more leeway on the consumers part to upgrade at their own leisure, assuming FC is a thing. Console makers make their money off the software sure, but they are still in a hardware driven market, so I don't really feel it defies anything except the console model which already exists. Just my two cents at least.
The way I took it, he isn't a fan of releasing a "new" system (Xbox One.5). He would rather release a part that you plug on to the current one to make it stronger. Sorta like how the N64 had that memory pack thing.
@kingthrash Actually gaming likely was always a mixed bag of respectable people and some assholes. Although with the invention of the internet has amplified the effect, because it allows people to get away with being an asshole easier and more often. Because you don't have to say something directly to their face and deal with potential consequences. As far as a ps4.5 or xb1.5, they should not even bother it wont be worth the marginal performance increase to spilt install bases. You need to go up a full generation or 2 of cpu/gpu series for it to be worthwhile. Better off having minor sku updates(cost cutting,4k video support ect) and just release the next gen versions in 3-4 yrs. Short of hard drives upgrading is a pc feature, best left to pcs, console are simple plug and play devices for the most part.
He wants to expand Microsoft Universal Platform. Basically have Xbox Live on all Microsoft devices (tablets, PCs, and consoles). In theory, instead of targeting 40 million users why not 1 billion. Imagine playing Gears of War 4 on Xbox One against PC gamers and mobile device users. Bigger audience= more revenue more profits.
Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/wat...
He seems to be talking now about a new gen instead of an upgrade mid gen like he was saying before
@OB1Biker he must... Releasing an incremental upgrade with Sony doing the same would only result in Sony maintaining the lead. With a new revision MS could go HBM memory, skip ESRAM get back chip area for GPU. But would it be HW compatible? No, not without the ESRAM. Would it be SW compatible? That depends on how desperate they have been. Like allowing developers to directly access ESRAM before DX12 was out...
Based on the quote on in the article it sounds like he's more interested in significant upgrades rather than smaller upgrades.
Ummm no, what he said was they were building towards a future where they can update the hardware (someday). And, of course, N4G ran, XBOX One to get an upgrade, that's not what he said. I got in argument, all the little fanBOY's, unable to comprehend English, disagreed with me and I lost a bubble. I love losing bubble's on N4G, home of the illiterate fanBOY. Look at all your agree's every single one of them are WRONG! Don't let the fact's get in the way of ignorant speculation.
Because 1.5 is a terrible name for markwtting. It will probably be called Xbox 10 to emphasize the link to Windows 10 knowing MS. Or maybe he's just being sensible and not smoking whatever Sony is smoking with this ps4.5 nonsense
He just doesn't want a weak upgrade. If they are going to do it, he wants it done right with a full upgrade that's significant. I completely agree with that. I don't want an upgrade so that I can play Blu-Ray movies at 4K. lol!! I want an upgrade where every game is 1080P, 60fps minimum, with room to have games go to 1440P - 30fps as well. If they aren't able to do that, then forget about it. This goes for the PS4.5 as well.
He was talking about an upgradeable next gen console. Not an Xbox One.5, but the next console generation they go in with an upgradeable GPU.
Sounds like he is trying to make people think they are the second ones with a upgrade.....fail people can google u know
Neither am I. It should be atleast x2 the power of current Xbox. They better release an upgraded Xbox One in the near future.
I believe they will. Im excited to see what the new upgraded consoles can do.
All good, some people don't like change. I'm all for it.
Yes through the power of cloud computing 😁
There we see Sony's take on it.
Reads GAF. Jumps on bandwagon.
Pretty much. However, Gaf is coming to accept the possibility of an upgraded PS4.
Of course Gaf would accept an upgraded PS4.
Why wouldn't we? I have yet to read a reasonable explaination as to why an upgraded version of a current-gen console is bad for us consumers and the gaming industry.
I to is jumping on the bandwagon of accepting the upgrade PS4.
There are a lot of reasonable explanations. For example, I just bought my PS4 and I do not want to buy another one to stay up-to-date. If I choose not to buy one then I will be left with an outdated console that runs games worse than the gamers who have the money to upgrade or who bought recently. No company wants its customers to lose faith and regret their purchase or they will lose them forever. I want a safe investment for my money as a console gamer. Furthermore, how will developers deal with two different hardware configurations? If Xbox launches a 1.5, then there will be 4 different consoles to program and optimize for. If NX is comparable and gets 3rd party support then there will be 5 consoles to develop for. That is crazy! Developing games for both (old and new) will be like developing a cross-platform game where the game takes full advantage of neither hardware and is stuck in teh middle. Finally, what if certain games are exclusive to new consoles? How will the 40+ (probably 50+ by then) million PS4 owners feel about that? Wont they feel betrayed and forced to upgrade? Consoles have been popular because they are affordable, simple and a safe one time investment for a whole generation. Slim versions have always been just refinements with no impact on the actual games but an upgraded hardware would make console gaming more expensive and divide the userbase with devastating results. I for one would quit playing on consoles. The only reason I play on consoles is that a game released 5 years down the road will still work on a console. Gaming PC will be too expensive for me so I will probably just quite gaming if console gaming went down this upgradeable road. And you can bet there will be many others like me who will not want to spend money on hardware multiple times each generation and will find it just a huge drain on their wallet.
@Griever 1. You start of with stating that 'there are a lot of reasonable explanations' then go on to give a personal circumstancial reason. Your wants and needs do not equate to a reasonable inference. The PlayStation 4 is already outdated. PC gamers have had the luxury to tinker with and experience higher frame-rates and graphical settings on almost every multiplatform title. Why must console gamers stick to an old age tradition which almost fudged the last generation. Do you feel the same everytime a new graphics card is revealed? 2. Developers deal with multiple PC configurations already, developing for two consoles with comparable api's won't break anyone's back. 3. How can anyone possibly come to the conclusion that certain games will be exclusive to an upgraded console that is 40 million units behind is beyond me. 4. Games released 5 years into the current generation will still work on your current PS4. The suggestion that you will quit gaming over iterative hardware is downright rediculous.
@Genuine User That personal circumstance is a reasonable explanation, because it affects more than just himself. Also, I find it funny that people are willing to support a 4.5 Playstation but are calling the release of the NX too early and the death of Nintendo. Man, I love the hypocrisy of the front page.
The main reason why it is very bad idea is it will force devs to not optimise on older sepc consoles. In other words you will not see tye gradual upgrade in later games as you normally would. In order to see any upgrade you eill need to upgrade to the latest console. This will in effect change consoles to be the same as PC. It will be the end of console gaming as we know it.
@Genuine-User Because no one wants to feel pressured into upgrading for slight upgrade changes which later games will benefit from. It's like "Want to play this super cool looking game? Yeah? Well buy the new PS4/Xbox.2" I'd rather just wait longer and get a brand new next generation console.
so is n4g