Phil Spencer gave glimpses of a future for Xbox with short product cycles and a smartphone-like business model.
"But in some ways, this move is less about overall market success and more about figuring out how to position Xbox (which Microsoft's upper management and shareholders do not care deeply about) as an important pillar of strength for Windows 10 (about which they care very, very much)." I completely agree. It's about Windows 10 absorbing Xbox. That's why they care about Active Users, it's why all of their current moves mainly benefit Windows 10 and why their new Xbox ideas are so PC-ish.
The share holders only view Xbox of value long as its being pushed as an Windows machine.Microsoft gaming division as it stands now brings them the least amount of return.
MS will have their own brand of gaming "PC" and continue to call it Xbox much like they have their own line of tablets and keyboards / mice. To the enthusiast that builds their own PC and chooses to run W10 it too will be branded an Xbox because of the software that will play on it being unified with the Xbox ecosystem.
To bad they haven't adopted the "PC-ish" idea of Free Online. They're eliminating everything that makes a console a console (almost). Not sure if I like the direction. I'm a bit apprehensive but would be happy to have my mind changed. In fact there starting to give me more reasons to play on PC (even though I don't wanna do that) than on their console, Xbox One, with free online and a lot of first party games going to Windows 10. I feel Xbox is having a bit of a identity crisis and MS's messaging isn't helping the matter.
@2ndhandcorn: Yeah. They only get free games. Period.
Have a look at humble bundles on what you get for $1
In fact there starting to give me more reasons to play on PC (even though I don't wanna do that) So if you don't want to do that, presumably because you like consoles then what are the reasons they are giving you? If you like consoles, why wouldn't you just continue to play on consoles? The games are still there
Xbox is just a platform to run off, xbox is also on PC as a platform to run off, Xbox One's OS is a slimmed down version of Windows 10, to bring games to multi-platforms = shed loads more money, console will still sell due to consumer being couch huggers, or bed lovers. A console will not lose sales just because games hit PC as well. Overall this is a good move for the game developers to get their games to a much wider audience overall. Also to have a console that you can incrementally upgrade, would mean backwards compatibility, no more having to re-buy games, just to play on your new system. A lot frown on the PC Master Race, because we sit on our high chairs and spit on console peasants. Well its now time for console games to sit up here with them and enjoy all your games for ever and ever.
"If successful, it would probably mark the end of game consoles as we know them; the long predicted "death of the console" brought about through evolution into a new form of device" The Xbox brand will die but console gaming will continue to live.
I don't think XBox is going anywhere anytime soon. If Phil is already talking about new hardware for it, why would anyone think it's going anywhere? I do think a Slim XB1 that's upgraded may get released before this generation is over though. There were only a couple shareholders who were dissatisfied with XBox. This article acts like every shareholder didn't want XBox, which is completely untrue.
Satya cares deeply about Xbox so that is a lie.
Yes satya cares about xbox, and xbox will be there on windows 10 as a service.
@The_Infected If that was the case why would Satya sign off on another XBOX PC/console hybrid with upgrade cycles? You make zero sense and would be wise to keep your trolling comments to yourself. By the way you obviously know very little about Satya. He isn't a "service" guy or whatever that is. His background is cloud and mobile. But he he has transformed Microsoft into a devices (Surface, Band, Xbox, Hololens), services (Office 365, XBL), and Cloud (Azure) business. Keep trolling though.
@343_Guilty_Spark "If that was the case why would Satya sign off on another XBOX PC/console hybrid with upgrade cycles? You make zero sense and would be wise to keep your trolling comments to yourself." Dont waste your time on em bruh. The thought of an xbox that is literaaly a console in a box, with upgradable GPU, scare the shit out of these guys..so they cling to this imaginary notion that MS is just making Xbox a service. its already a service on a console. Now the hardware is going to be upgradable and that means no more bragging in DF articles for sony fanboys, in advance...meanwhile we will be playing halo 5, forza etc. at max settings and beyond 4K on our next gen xboxs, fitted with whatever GPUs we want in them.
@343 You're 100% wrong. MS is going to leave the living room. I mean no ever sits there anyway. Everyone sits at their computer. They eat at the computer, read at the computer, they even computer at the computer. There is no reason to have a big presence in the living room. Who likes big comfy couches and big tvs. Not me or any other gamer. Get it together man. Im not trying to be mean but now that every exclusive is coming to PC everyone one is going to go spend $600-$800 today and $200-$300 in a couple years to keep it relevant. Why would you spend $350 to play 80% of games that come out today, tomorrow and in 5 years. That's stupid. I want to spend as much as possible.
Win 10 was created with gaming (on every Microsoft product) in mind, which makes things easier to use for consumers and developers.
I'm sure M$ will drop the ball on every port job just to keep the superior experience on inferior hardware (XBONE).
A lot of people interpret this as MS leaving the console market. Which is not the case at all., I don't know how they came to that conclusion. It will be a console that can easily be upgraded and maybe even play PC games. It's still a console. Just a more badass one.
It will be a (small formfactor) PC, just with an easy-to-use dashboard - similar to what you find on consoles today or like SteamOS introduced for PCs allready. ... still - a PC. Which btw has only advantages.
I think it's more that the Consoles are becoming more and more like a PC anyway. The only thing that really separated them was the UI and hardware limitations. Now games are coded with the PC in mind to make for easier ports to consoles. It seems like it's one step closer. With the physical media format slowly dying down it seems like it's more like a PC anyways. Which in all honesty having my games come with me from Gen to Gen should have been a thing years ago. That's one thing about PC gaming that you don't have to worry about. You don't need to keep your old system to play the games. Just the software direct x version to play them.
"it's why all of their current moves mainly benefit Windows 10 and why their new Xbox ideas are so PC-ish." Which I personally see nothing wrong with doing.
i mean most gamers that buy consoles, or parents that buy for their kids, arent accustomed to or wouldnt expect to purchase a console, and in a way be burden by, short cycles. when we buy a console its: "ok $400-$550, im good for a while". but, this could be a good thing. like ppl that may want to wait a year or two and get the better version. but i can see it being a bad thing bc of people wanting to upgrade all the time; they wont be spending a lot or enough on games bc they just shelled out hundreds of dollars. i can see that hurting developers and eventually hurting Xbox in the not-so-long run. PC: "i just spent hundreds on a new graphics card" or w/e: *pirates* *pirates* *pirates* (or i can imagine). XBOX: "i just bought an upgraded xbox": *just plays what they already have for a while, in better graphics settings*
Not even Mr. fantastic can stretch that far.
Agree with the first part. But games go on sale all the time. We will all have plenty of games to play, especially considering the new Xbox platform will be backwards and forwards compatible.
yeah so ppl will wait till games go on sale instead of shell out $60 bucks bc they just dropped $300 or w/e on an upgraded console. or be more inclined than they already are to buy them used. either way im pretty sure it hurts the devs. i didnt say ppl wont have games to play. im talking about ppl not buying as many games bc of upgrading all the time.
Well, if there is a larger install base, devs have the potential to make more money. Also, your scenarios is if everyone is upgrading every year. What will likely happen is those that just picked up last year's model will not buy the new model if they are already limited on funds, freeing up their funds for more games. It will open up the option to entice new gamers to the platform due to the upgraded hardware and leave the option to upgrade annually to this that do have more disposable income. The "older" console has to go somewhere though right? Either extra systems in the household or its given or sold off at a cheaper price gaining more market penetration allowing more devs a chance to sell their games. Not just games either, but Windows Store apps as developers will now combine their demographics.
Sorry Microsoft you arent Apple and your products will not sell millions if you put them out every year....
The Surface and Band sell millions every year.
Still can't compare to numbers apple puts out.
@SpeakTruthAlways ironic you are speaking the truth hence people disagreeing with you.
Didn't Apple just put out a new larger far more expensive tablet because power users wanted nothing to do with the ipad and went with the Surface? Sounds like Apple is chasing MS share.
Numbers that Apple puts out? *Looks at number of PCs to Macs* That is a pretty low number. Apple might want to do something about that.
@Unspoken Apple puts out hardware with there own OS, Windows can be installed on any hardware. If Mac OS wasnt limited to just Apple products it could be a different story
So is the XB1. How do they think it got to 20 million sold in just a couple years. There are other companies out there that can't even sell 5 million phones or tablets in one year.
The funny thing is, by the time MS gets this off the ground, phones will all be switching to the new modular idea, where the users picks & chooses what pieces they'd like to upgrade & do it themselves, just like a PC... Welcome to 2018...Game consoles are phones, phones are pcs, pcs are tablets & tablets are tv's.
That is pretty funny... they are preparing now for the new transition and will be one of the major players behind unified devices and services. Exciting times.
Indeed. This kind of modularization has a lot of advantages economically and ecologically. For example (PC): I buy a good case and PSU once a decade. Switch out my Mobo and CPU all 5+ years and my graphicscard every 2+ years. Saves a lot of money and resources. Would love to do that with other devices as well.
But they do sell millions a year. MS also rake in billions a year as well. Xbox even sells millions a year. Your comment is wrong on so many levels. Your treating one of the biggest Software companies like no one likes them. There one the biggest for that sole reason.
They're one of the biggest for that sole reason. Don't use "there" in that sentence, otherwise you'll sound like a fool.
If they are made upgradable, are they not just PC's....?
I know right? Just get a pc and you're basically doing what MS wants to do with the XB1.
Benefit of PC is that you wont have to buy proprietary parts and use that awful windows store
True that, if console gamers want true freedom and upgradibilty , pc is the only route.
"Benefit of PC is that you wont have to buy !horrendously overpriced! proprietary parts and use that awful windows store." There fixed it for ya!
2pacalypsenow + 15h ago "Benefit of PC is that you wont have to buy proprietary parts and use that awful windows store" You have to use that "awful windows store" anyway if you want to play KI, gears or forza:apex. You also need a XBL account...sooooooo....
So was the Sega Genesis or N64 a PC because you could upgrade the console? No. Plenty of gamers want to play Xbox exclusives without gaming on a PC.
Lol both of those failed miserably , so people didn't want to upgrade a console
"Lol both of those failed miserably , so people didn't want to upgrade a console" People also didnt want expensive VR headsets back then either...its a different age, mate. And as Azzanation said...most people dont want to build a PC to play xbox games. Shoot....most cant afford to build a descent rig that would play QB at xbox like settings...and they use tablets and laptops for stuff they used to do on a computer...because they dont need PC's..hence why desktop sales have been in decline for years now. You guys must have even more hype for xbox than I do as an xbox gamer, if you think XBox games on PC suddenly means a boon in sales for desktop parts vendors. Building a gaming Pc to play games on a console you can get for a lot cheaper makes sense to the majority of the console market. Hence why they buy consoles in the first place. But maybe...MS has an idiot proof way for noobs to fit a GPU by themselves without sweating bullets. And given that MS have said themselves their eco system of apps is forwads AND backwards compatable, its pretty obvious they wont be fragmenting their uadience with this approach. Especially when all PC games start being made in DX12..and thats going to happen over the course of this year, anyway. Its already started.
In other words from what i understand....its the image of a tower pc that will change.Bring everything more close of the living room pc or not .
Consoles are successful precisely because they're less expensive than top-of-the-line PCs and every game is made to run on them; plus, the upgrade cycle is four to seven years. Its a great investment. Also you get a blu-ray player, netflix-ready, HD streaming service, and social apps, all in the same package. All this for just $350 every four to seven years? Awesome for people who just want to play quick, casual and with almost no tech-savvy whatsoever, which are, whether we like it or not, the majority of people. Microsoft thinks everybody is made of money. They also appear to think that we MOST give it to them. This is not forward-thinking, this is plain lunacy. The smartphone business model is successful, yes, but you can't force that business model to something that its not a smartphone and expect it to become automatically successful. Besides, the only really successful smartphone business models are Android's and Apple's, and they got to be successful thanks to their products being chosen by the public with their wallets. But the products won, not the 'business model'. The model was built around the successful products, not the other way around. Make a great product and the model will build itself.
Well said! Some people have the "make it and they will buy it" attitude. Clearly and historically, most of those who "made something just because they expect people to buy it" were wrong on so many levels.
That sounds like a bad idea for the Xbox brand. People buy consoles because of their ease of use and simplicity of setting up. Consumers have grown accustomed to buying a console knowing that its hardware will run any type of game released on it thoughout its entire lifecycle, no matter how long it lasts. When you try to disrupt that you lose the entire reason of why people buy consoles. Having to determine what type of chips consumers would need to run certain games or features would just confuse the audience, just look at the Steambox as proof. Not only that but developers would also have difficulty trying to develop for a console that gets "refreshed" every year or two. That would just unnecessarily fragment the market. No matter how ambitious the effort, the console market would never be as open as the PC market has always been.
One could do a 5-8 year console cycle with a stronger CPU and enough RAM and only make the graphicschip upgradable. Similar to a Cartridge. You put it in the box and you're done. Call it a Powerup and put out an upgrade every other year - name it G1, G2, G3 and G4. Put a logo on the game: e.g. "Minimum G2" (That should be easy enough to understand.) Other than that: Put on W10, but make it directly bootable into a simple "Xbox"-Dashboard. Similar to SteamOS. The experience will not differ much from usual consoles. But people who wanna extended functionality can still boot up into regular windows. Concerning the dashboard - i would actually bet on that. Give it a few month.
Microsoft is determined to ruin console gaming for the consumer. If it's not DRM it's expensive pricing programs and costly upgrades and forcing their software down people's throat. All the Microsoft fans were praising Phil as if it were the next coming of the messiah with their cries of "In Phil we Trust" but I knew he was just another corporate tool. He never really cared about console gaming just about selling the Microsoft brand. He just conveniently had a trusting demeanor that Microsoft fans were craving after the initial failure of the console.
He's a puppet, plain and simple A way to gain some trust back and present a new idea since the Drm console never took off. They are probably trying to do this to bring it back some way but very slowly...surgical so we don't feel it I just didn't expect him to show his strings so soon. Upper big boys at their main HQ must want quicker progress or something
Lol you guys are ridiculous. How exactly is this bad for the consumer? All they're doing is spreading Xbox throughout the rest of Microsoft's ecosystems. More devices, more choice. Choosing to attack Spencer over this is also pretty lame. His job is to liaise between Microsoft's chief executives/shareholders and the general public media. Oh, and oversee the Xbox brand within Microsoft.
The only people it's bad for is PS gamers. Xbox will leave PlayStation in the dust with every new iteration. The statements on here are outlandish, foolish and misguided. Xbox is here to stay. It's transcending consoles and breaking the old paradigm of 7-8 year cycles.
It's not like the whole idea of console gaming was that you bought one inexpensive box that lasted 5+ years, right? Isn't that why everyone is always claiming consoles are so much better than PC because of the simplicity of the one box? But I guess as soon as almighty Phil says it's about buying a bunch of upgrades and selling with cellphone style pricing programs all of a sudden that's not true anymore huh? Also I'm not really attacking Phil I'm laughing at the people who said things like "In Phil we Trust" like he was some kind of console savior. Phil is exactly what I always expected him to be.
I agree, Pandamobile. I'm having a very difficult time seeing how this is supposedly a bad thing. I'm not at all convinced by the weak arguments people are putting forward. It seems like nothing but 'sour grapes' to me.
I agree, being able to upgrade my console with specific parts, new processor/RAM/GPU etc makes absolute sense to me, especially if it at a fraction of the cost. Also being able to play all my games across all MS platforms is a win win for me. I like this vision personally :D You dont want to upgrade, the same game will still run at the consoles specs...nothing wrong with that. buy the game once and play it on all devices...who wouldnt want that? As for MS killing consoles, actually it will only make it last longer by extending the life and longevity.
MCTJim Well basically what you're saying is you want a PC? If you're going to upgrade the CPU RAM and GPU you're not even using a console anymore. The things your saying are just totally contradictory to everything console gaming has stood for. And what worse is now your getting into the realm of closed source PC's where the only programs you can run are Microsoft approved which wouldn't only be bad for consoles but the whole PC ecosystem. It's sad that people have so little foresight as to not be able to see where Microsoft is going. With things like Windows uninstalling and installing programs without users permission. And further trying to push the level of control they have over the PC people have in their own homes. Now you're talking about a totally closed source idea. We are headed into a dangerous place here.
I think it's really a bit too soon to attribute the downfall of consoles to MS, or anyone else. As of right now, very little is know about how this will be implemented, or even if anything meaningful will come from it. For all we know, this will just mean shorter console cycles, that afford even more benefits for the consumer. I am probably more skeptical of MS than many people on this site for a myriad of reasons, but I at least prefer to give them a chance unless it's completely contradictory to their common practice, and I see this move as more in line with their common practice. The only thing that may make me dislike the idea is if it's implemented poorly, or in such a way that is detrimental to the consumer or developers.
Listen, I'm not buying a new console every few years. It's as simple as that. And a lot of people don't even buy consoles till halfway through a gen after more games are out. I think you'll find many people will feel the same way and will be unwilling to spend $400-500 every few years on a console. Or the even worse option of having them sell consoles like cell-phones with overpriced yearly contracts.
I wouldn't be that keen on the idea either. But there are those that do, and MS has already stated they don't want to make the old hardware obsolete as soon as a new version releases. Their intention is to open upgrade paths, and that notion does not mean the downfall of consoles. Their implementation of it may not be that great when it comes out, and that implementation may be counter-productive and cause disruption or ire, but I can't see it causing consoles to go away. There are several implementations that I feel wouldn't be beneficial, but the idea itself isn't bad, because it allows people options.
Ashlen why is it you believe the cost of consoles will remain $400-500? The GPU and CPU are the two most expensive parts in a console. In the past they were separate parts costing $100-250 each. Consoles launched selling at a loss. In 2009 Microsoft launched the Xbox S that combined those two parts. This generation those two parts cost $100 in the PS4 and $110 in the Xbox. One APU containing the CPU and GPU and the consoles launched at or below the cost to manufacture them. Since they launched there have been two industry die shrinks and a third to take place in a year or two. Even if no one launches a new machine until 2019 by that time the APU will cost fifty dollars. Consoles won't cost $400-500 again. It doesn't cost that much to make them anymore. Current generation consoles cost less than $300 to make. Even less later this year when the die shrink kicks in. Once the die shrink matures they will be even less. In three years you're adding a $100 chip. And they'll make a small profit on it. And Sony will be doing the same thing.
No I already own a gaming PC,. What I am saying is this; if MS decides in 4 years to offer an upgraded GPU for the console, why not offer it at the fraction of the cost. The universal App will see that they develop for one version that all devices can run and be BC. Its not dangerous, it's call progress. I wish when I got into gaming in the early 70's they offered such an option at a fraction of the cost instead of having to buy a new console every 4-5 years. But the technology was not there yet. Now its ready or just about ready. So if consoles are to keep pace, make them up-gradable at a fraction of the cost of a new system and you have extended the life of said console while keeping the ecosystem still locked in a console like format. Its not a doom n gloom that many are hoping for, its going to be awesome..No need to buy old games or pay for streaming old games, its a very smart plan. I buy games once and thats it..I get on PC and console..win win for everyone except those who do not own one.
@ashlen, Do you have to upgrade if u don't want to? It would still be the same as what you have now with console right? If you want an xbox that stay like a console, you can. If you want to upgrade it, you also have the option. PC been doing this for years, no one say anything. Upgrade is an option, not mandatory. Why do u think they implement backward and FORWARD compatibility? Nobody forcing you to use their OS either. You have Linux, steam OS, IOS to chose from. If you want to play their game or certain features, then u use their software like every other OS do with their contents. Like if you want to play playstation game, you have to buy the Console. How come no one say Soy forcing their hardware down people's throat? Nobody force u to buy it. I welcome more options that allows me to have access to my contents (you know, the thing that actually matter) instead of my contents being held hostage to a hardware with no other options. You can take your BS agenda else where.
Paying 400$ every 12 month for a slight upgrade? I call it total rip off No thanks I will stick to my PC/PS4
And you should Stick to ps4 and pc combo dude, you ain't losing anything, free xbl, xbox exclusives, ps4 exclusives, win-win.