PC: pirate group that broke Denuvo suspendes new 'cracks' to measure impact on games sales

"The China-based cracking group that recently bemoaned Denuvo's anti-piracy system as all but unbreakable has delivered a second surprise announcement. 3DM says it will stop working on single-player games cracks for at least a year so it can assess whether genuine sales will be affected."

[DarkOcelet]

“We’ll take a look at the situation in a year’s time to see if genuine sales have grown,”

This experiment will fail because they need to realize that most people who Pirate games either cant afford them because of their ridiculously high prices in many regions (Which is the majority of those people who pirate game) or those who would not have got the game from the first place.

But we will see if this will make a difference and hopefully now those developers who use Denuvo Tech release excellent PC Ports and not some $hit like Arkham Knight.

[Razputin]

I've said this countless times.

Pirates are exactly that, people who can't afford the games or weren't going to buy them in the first place.

If I see something on a website for free, I'm going to download regardless if I'm going to use it or not.

[ONESHOTV2]

i'm no pirate but some one could also use the free download so that they can test the game before they buy it my thought.

[rainslacker]

I've seen countless times too people paying $200 for the installation, and $60 for the chip to be able to play pirated PS1/PS2 games on their PS2. There are plenty of pirates who can afford to buy games. I used to be one of them. Pirates are not just one segment of the market place, but made up of lots of people who do it for many different reasons.

Maybe stop downloading things you aren't going to use at least. Adding to the piracy numbers isn't helping legitimate users do away with DRM.

If you can't afford to buy the games, then maybe consider not playing them. You aren't entitled to play them just because your poor, and if you have a PC or hacked console, then it's likely you can buy a game from time to time.

God, it's sickening how many people on this site actually condone piracy yet claim to be gamers who want to support devs, all while finding excuses on why they are justified in just taking whatever they want without compensating those who provide this content for us.

[abstractel]

The thing is, those of us that condone piracy are speaking from experience. Did Witcher 3 sell bad on PC? As much as Jonathan Blow complained, he's making bank from Witness which is an indie title. Yet I didn't see that make the top row here on N4G once the sales of the first week were released.

I have a friend, not making this up since as I am perfectly able to stand up for my own actions, at least anonymously, who got a decent PC for Christmas. He was on wellfare and took all the shitty jobs he could get. He pirated games. Then he finally got a fulltime job at a industry plant (not a great job) and as soon as he got that job he started buying all his games. If he wasn't sure about a title and wanted to try it out before he bought it, he'd try it for an hour and then buy it if he liked it but that was rare. I feel he deserved to get those games when he had no money.

You could argue that it's not up to him, it's up to the developer that made the game. I would agree with that, but it's such a minor evil because no sale was ever lost.

Personally, I am a gamer today because piracy was available in the late 90s. My parents wouldn't buy me games. They felt it would harm me in the long run. I have bough hundreds of games in my adulthood. The people who pirate to save money -- and I can't prove this -- I suspect are in the minority. And I've come across a lot of shitty people in my life including gamers.

As someone who works for a developer and whose pay depends on the sales of games, I have no problem with piracy. I think it's a shame the group will not release Denovu hacked games for a full year, but I think it's great that they are doing it and hopefully it will settle this debate once and for all. It will prove who is right and who isn't. If I am wrong, I will fully admit to it.

If I ever develop my own game and I am able to set up my own pricing, I will have a set price but allow people to personally contact me and tell me what they can afford.

I think there's a lot of people here who don't understand what it's like to be poor, or feel that they shouldn't have entertainment because of it.

[yomfweeee]

Sorry thunder being poor is not excuse. If you're poor maybe you shouldn't be spending money on luxuries such as video games. These things are not a right. I don't buy the demo excuse either. Can you steal items from a store to demo and return if you don't like?

In this day and age there are hours upon hours of game footage online. Between those and reviews the "pirate to demo" is just a pathetic excuse for something illegal.

[stiggs]

@Razputin (and others)

Here we go again...more pathetic justifications for pirating games.

Game too expensive? Steal it.
Title not available in your region? Steal it
Just want to "test" game? Steal it
XYZ company angers you for being "greedy"? Steal everything.

Am I the only one who sees that the responsible choice is to just NOT PLAY CERTAIN GAMES? Why is it that the first option for a lot of you in these situation is to pirate (STEAL) games?

Gaming is a privilege, not a right. Why do a lot of you think that you DESERVE the opportunity to play any game that you choose for free? The fact that you can't afford a luxury item like a video game or console does not justify the excuse to steal it. The declaration that "you wouldn't buy it anyway" has no bearing on the legitimacy of your decision. If you don't have enough interest in the game to validate a purchase then why are you playing it?

I would love to have a new Ferrari but I can't afford one nor do I have any inclination to purchase a car in that class. These facts do not absolve me of any responsibility if I decided to go out and steal one of these vehicles. So, why is it that many of you feel that it's acceptable behavior to apply the same rationalization to video games? I know why but I'd like someone to give me an honest reply.

I could go on and on trying to deliberate my point but I'm sure most of it is falling on deaf ears. I only wish that people would stop trying to justify their illicit behavior. I've said it before...I would have more respect if you just said "yeah, I pirate because I'm a deceitful person. So what?" At least you'd be honest...

Bring on the disagrees. It won't change the fact that you're wrong...and you know it.

[Aquanox]

It depends where are you from. I countries in development, piracy has been a standard for decades, until some games/consoles became unhackable and this pushed people to buy original games. Now that these people know the advantages of having an original game, many make an effort and now go original on games that consider worth it.... hence, the growth in games sales in Latin America and growing localization for this region.

[Mikefizzled]

I think it's a new generation's worth of views that could cause a real knock on effect. People are thinking that pirating things they can't afford as a good excuse.
Everything moves from an upfront purchase to a cheap monthly subscription or free with limitations with microtransactions and adverts. Could this be part of the reason people think it's ok?
People assume gaming should be for everyone, but it isn't. It's a harsh but fair approach that could be resolved by fairer regional pricing.

[Peace_Love_and_FPS]

1 word: Brazil.

Fellas, if you go to nuevo or one of several Brazilian sites you'll see they're an authorized dealer and that the games are much cheaper. I got siege at launch for 35 dollars less that what I would have paid in Canadian dollars where I live and it wasn't grey market, in fact you can check which of these grey market vendors are official or not, should safety of your purchase be a concern.

I've never had a stolen CD code from any of the official vendors, it's just like buying games from best buy for example, you make an account, preorder, and you're set to save some money.

[Vegamyster]

@hvd222

People buy from sites like G2A ect because it's better value, i usually buy from CDkeys not not because i'm poor. You put the same game that's $40 CAN on CD Keys compared to $80 CAN on Steam/Best buy, i'll choose the cheaper copy for the obvious reason its better value for me the consumer. I've never had issues with my keys either, its very rare that devs will block these keys from certain sites because they're "stolen". Legit CD key sites pay for the keys from the developer and choose to sell them cheaper to compete with others.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

Stiggs is on point on this one.

No matter how you try to slice it, piracy is wrong at the end of the day.

The real main reason why people pirate is because they can do so with little to no consequence. That's what it boils down to. You can't afford it, you want to demo it, the game isn't available in you country, yada yada yada yada, but I bet if there were was a high liklihood of you getting caught and some serious consequence to follow, you wouldn't take your chance at pirating the game.

To those that say those that pirate games wouldn't contribute to sales of the games anyways, so the hell what if that's true? It's still wrong at the end of the day.

If you pirate games by all means continue to pirate. I'm not trying to make anyone stop, just trying to make people stop either justifying it and stop them from making it seem like piracy is something of a necessity.

[Razputin]

@Stiggs,

Hey I'm not justifying or condoning anything. I'm saying what it is.

I have 1700+ Steam games. Nearly as many on disc as well.

Believe me if that Ferrari was as easy to "steal" as DIGITAL GOODS are, you'd do it. Plain and simple, I don't care how strong your moral fiber is, or what Batman complex of responsibility that you have towards your society. Anyone would take anything when it is that easy.

Not saying its wrong, right, left, or up. Just stating facts.

[UKmilitia]

i buyt loads of games but i will also pirate a game and then if i like it keep my order

[stiggs]

@Razputin

"Anyone would take anything when it is that easy."

Please don't assume that everyone has the same low morale standard as you.

I agree that one of the reasons people pirate games is because the action is usually devoid of consequence. But don't believe for a second that fact is motivation enough to spur anyone into stealing.

Are you actually suggesting that every member of society would become full-time thieves if there was no way to get caught? Man, that is one pessimistic outlook. If you were anywhere near correct we would be living in absolute anarchy.

The primary reason why I wouldn't steal a Ferrari is because it goes against my morale upbringing...not because of the fear of persecution.

Last summer I found a wallet with a little over $500 in it. Did I keep it? No, I tracked down the owner and returned it. Why would I do that...because it was the RIGHT THING TO DO.

One doesn't need to posses a "Batman complex" to be a good person. Maybe some day you'll figure that one out.

[Volkama]

Majority of pirates are just opportunists. Not malicious, greedy, needy, poor, or in league with satan. Just opportunists who play free because they can.

Very few people legitimately can't afford to buy games but still have the means to play them so long as they are free.

[DarkOcelet]

No my friend, you have no idea the amount of people who legitimately cant afford to buy games.

Seriously, prices are ****ed up in some regions that buying 1 game can cost you half your months salary and i am not kidding.

[ShaunCameron]

Very much. Always wanting something for free if not at a discount due to their own greed and warped sense of entitlement.

[OoglyBoogly]

@ShaunCameron

"due to their own greed and warped sense of entitlement."

Where do you dopes keep getting this "greed" and "entitlement" bullshit from?

[donthate]

I see a lot of excuses for piracy, but since when was piracy justified by your own situation.

I'm sorry, games aren't a necessity and if the developer/publisher charges too much don't buy it. Done!

You don't steal it, and justify it by saying I can't afford it.

End of story.

[ShaunCameron]

@ OoglyBoogly

Probably from the same place you dopes get the idea that gaming is a right and the developers and publishers owe you something judging by how you throw tantrums every time developers and publishers take measures to protect their products from the very people you seem to love making excuses for.

[NarooN]

Eh I dunno about that man, game prices in Canada and Australia are ridiculously insane. Like I'm talking, "how is this even a thing" insane. It's no wonder most people wait for flash sales and GOTY editions these days.

[rainslacker]

@Shaun

At least we're paying for the product, so we have a right to say what we want, and criticize what we feel is not right. even if we don't get it. Not everyone complaining about a game is doing it from an entitled viewpoint.

But if you're going to pirate games, and say, "well the devs/pubs are screwing us over", then it's just sad that you don't see the irony in the fact that you are screwing them over as well. Not buying the game would screw them over, but with piracy, all you're doing is making things more difficult on those who actually buy and support the industry.

I have more respect for a pirate who is just honest and says that they do it because they can, and don't care, than I do for the one that makes all these excuses which probably don't even apply to the people in here actually saying the words. I'm sure most of you aren't from 3rd world countries where game prices are 1/2-2X the average monthly income. Given how good most of you are at English, I'd say you're likely in one of the more developed countries like the US, UK, Australia, Canada, etc. Sure in some of those places games are more expensive, but that doesn't give you the right to just take them.

Let the disagrees roll in though. This site is infested with pirates, and this is one topic where I always get a disproportionate number of disagrees for simply stating what is what most morally responsible people would do...which also happens to be the legal thing to do.

[Skudermasker89]

I live in a developing country and i can't afford to buy games. Minimum wage here is around 200$, and i am working a minimum wage job. Also games here are more expensive then in US. So how is that me and many people who are poor pirating games hurting developers?

All of you who are against piracy and people who pirate games, would do it too if you where in same situation as me. But i bet you think that you wouldn't play any games even if you are broke and you love playing games, because you are so altruistic. Get of your high horse.

[abstractel]

I call this BS, but seriously, in a year's time we'll see if Denovu games are selling a massive amount more because of it.

[AndrewLB]

@Naroon

Many of you guys who live in europe, UK, or Australia somehow forget that all your prices included a 20% VAT tax, and depending on where you are... sometimes even more. Then there are all sorts of protectionist tariffs which are designed to even the playing field between nations but they do exactly the opposite. That huge additional cost lies squarely on your bloated Socialist governments that you elected. Want cheaper products? Throw them out of office.

[ShaunCameron]

@ AndrewLB

Protectionist tariffs are designed to protect the local economy from foreign competition which generally benefits local businesses and the local government.

<Then there are all sorts of protectionist tariffs which are designed to even the playing field between nations but they do exactly the opposite.>

They would also have to grow their population size as part of the reason they pay higher prices for goods is because they don't have a big enough consumer base to justify lower prices coupled with high logistics costs due to their geography.

[JackVagina]

And you assume everyone who pirates is 100% honest?

[Bdub2000]

No one who pirates is honest, regardless of their reasoning. Stealing a game is stealing a game...

[Jonin7Spartan]

@Bdub2000 - and if it's being sold at a ridiculous price.... it's justified if you're being screwed over first.

[ShaunCameron]

@ Jonin7Spartan

Spiteful much?

I guess it's lost on you that developers and publishers have rights including the right to sell their games at whatever price they deem fit no matter how "ridiculous" you may think it is.

[rainslacker]

The only way to really gauge it is if all pirating/cracking groups did the same thing, and there was no newly pirated games to be had.

Even then, there are a lot of factors which go into the total unit sale of a game, and unless you factor in all such things, any data obtained from this is misrepresented and incomplete. It could either serve to show that piracy has no effect, or that it has a major effect, but since the data was flawed, both results would be useless. I also feel that pirates themselves, while maybe genuinely doing this for some actual insight, will still come to whatever conclusion that they want to be found due to confirmation bias.

Anyhow, of course sales are going to grow. You remove an easy route for pirates to obtain their games, and SOME people(not all are poor people who don't buy games) will start buying them legitimately.

However, like I said, with no baseline on what it would have sold with piracy, the results really mean nothing.

[lemondish]

This is a bullshit post that cites no data, supports itself with no logical conclusion, and reads like an apologist to theft.

Fucking kids stealing shit like to blame prices, and apathy. STOP STEALING.

[styferion]

They can't afford games but somehow have a gaming PC good enough to play pirated games?
It's actually more of a habitual thing, here on 3rd world countries you grew up learning that games can be pirated easily, they're already playing pirated games since childhood that, the concept of buying original games is strange and uncommon.
Oh believe me most actually have money, but these people even if there's no more pirated game they'll simply choose not to play instead of buying originals.

[anilkaos]

I am from a third world country and i used to pirate games, Now i have more than 1300 games on steam and enjoy exclusives on both the consoles..

Piracy made me a gamer and now i am returning the favor by spending money on games, what i am trying to say is without piracy i wouldn't have been a gamer in the first place because i simply couldn't afford it at that time

[alvgamin4lif]

First of all, the title is somewhat clickbait-y since 3dm never managed to break denuvo.
Anyways the "pirates will pirate because they will not buy it" is just a single condition or factor. To start off, I want to say (and I'm going to address @thunderbear here but not just him) that gaming is a luxury. It isn't a necessity, so just because someone can't afford it doesn't give him the right to pirate it. I mean this works when someone who little, lives in a poor country and has no idea that he or she is actually pirating. As a matter of fact, I used to pirate a lot back when I was little. Honestly I had no idea back then as all of the gaming shops in my country used to (and some still do) thrive on pirated game sales. Nowadays even though I'm still a student (uni) I buy my games instead of pirating them. Even if there's a game that I really want and I don't have the money for it, I won't pirate it. I'll just wait for it to go on a sale or buy it if I can save up the money for it.
Now, coming back to @DarkOcelot, I want to say that not always people are pirating because they aren't the "intended customer" or "can't afford". Nowadays thanks to steam sales or third party sites, you can get games for really cheap. Yet people resort to piracy which shows their greed.

[Dee_91]

How will the experiment fail? Thats the whole point of the experiment. To see rather it affects sales or not

[DarkOcelet]

Because like i said, those who pirate games will not buy them, that is the reality.

So its futile what 3DM is trying to do here.

[HaVoK308]

You're not entitled to a hobby. Affordability is a lazy and pathetic excuse.

[Volkama]

There is a big political and philosophical discussion there that transcends way beyond pirating games.

[FN4GM]

And the "wasn't going to buy it in the first place" line is little more then an excuse thief's make in order to make it sounds as if what they are doing is some how ok and not illegal, like it is. Your lack of intent to purchase a product does not give you the right to turn around and steal it. Try walking out of any store with a cart full of stuff and not pay for it and then when you get stopped tell them you had no intention on buying it anyway and see what happens.

[Christopher]

***This experiment will fail because they need to realize that most people who Pirate games either cant afford them because of their ridiculously high prices in many regions (Which is the majority of those people who pirate game) or those who would not have got the game from the first place. ***

There is no data to support this idea just as there is no data to support the opposing idea that piracy ultimately hurts the bottom dollar. Making comments like this is just as abusive of statistics as what the publishers say.

Even with these guys taking a year off, it really won't show much more information on the impact of (or lack thereof) piracy.

Personally, I don't support piracy solely for the fact that I believe if people want something, they should buy it and not find ways to get to it without buying. I don't believe that many Americans who pirate are unable to afford the cost of games at Steam sales prices, only they "want it now and won't buy it now" so instead "pirate it now". That's my personal opinion on the American piracy scene. I can't speak for it in other countries.

If you can't afford it, though, then save up money until you can. That's my opinion on the whole thing. Other people do it, so can you.

[DarkOcelet]

Ok then, let me give you an example in my country Egypt and why people pirate games instead of getting it and why it is extremely hard to save up the money until you can.

You see, the average Salary of the citizen there is 1500 EGY pounds.

And a game there usually costs 600 Egy pounds. That is almost half your salary and of course there are things to consider like food/water, Electricity, Cloth and if you are a Parent then things get much worse as you have a wife and kids so its extremely hard to buy anything that is considered a luxury.

Believe me when i say this, people want to support those developers who make many awesome games but those insane amount of prices are making it hard to do so.

If games in Egypt did cost 60 pounds, then the sales of the games would have sky rocketed because those prices are cheap and there are tons of gamers in Egypt but unfortunately with the economy we are living in, it will be impossible for such prices to come.

[Volkama]

@darkocelet when you say average salary, you mean for the whole year?

I'm not personally anti-piracy in situations where gaming is literally unattainable, and i don't believe devs or even publishers are worried about that either. It is no loss or harm in those circumstances.

That does not cover the majority of pirates, and is not a reason the gaming industry should passively allow piracy to go on.

[Seraphim]

I think there's a good number who wouldn't have bought the game or can't afford but some, who knows how many, simply do because they can, because they're cheap, because (?)....

[DillyDilly]

If 3DM wont release cracks someone else will in the long run

[OoglyBoogly]

Exactly. I don't see the point. To me this is more them saying "we can't crack these games so we're just making some excuse as to why we aren't".

[RedDeadLB]

Really? Because I don't remember 3DM ever cracking anything Denuvo related to it's fullest extent. All of their cracks are broken one way or another. And yet, they'll "suspend" their cracks for a year while they haven't actually "cracked" anything since their piss poor attempt at Mad Max and MGS5.

It's a shame that no one's cracked Denuvo, really. If Arkham Knight wasn't cracked, I would have bought it blindly and would still be beating myself up because of it. Thankfully, it was, so I'm glad I dodged that bullet and bought Mad Max instead.

[Errorist76]

I can't remember having this group ever crack any of the games I pirated. How is this even gonna make a difference?!

[Pl4sm4]

i played i think tomb raider from them back in the day ... it ran like crap with a crap crack lol

[vork77]

this is why we cant have nice things

[abstractel]

What are you talking about? The industry is thriving like never before and piracy is as alive and well on PC as it ever has been. Even more so now given how easy it is to find games for anyone.

[Tzuno]

If piratery dies people that have used to pirate everything will not buy games blindly day 1 as many would think, they will wait for bargain bins prices or low prices sales.

[ShaunCameron]

In other words, actually exercising some self-control and thinking through their purchasing choices.

[rainslacker]

So you're saying that they will buy games then? Isn't that counter to what many say that these pirates are all poor sods who simply can't afford games?

Think of it from a publishers point of view.

Pirate will never buy games. No revenue ever.

Uncracked game will sell because it can't be pirated, but the revenue may come in much later....some revenue.

Which do you think is more desirable to the publisher?

[rainslacker]

I think the exceptions are much more in number than many pirates would care to admit. But since there is really no way to quantify any data on any side, lets just say we're both full of sh*t, and the pirates are still breaking the law.

Fair enough?

[tee_bag242]

This is good in my opinion. We'll be able to see if the notion that piracy hurts digital sales holds any water.

[rainslacker]

It wouldn't tell us anything, because this is one cracking group, who will still post cracks on their website.

What will be more interesting is if the Witcher 3 is pirated as much or more, and has higher sales than the witcher 2 despite there being no DRM. At least measuring if the lack of DRM increases sales is a more quantifiable metric...although it doesn't take into account the increased popularity of the series....so even it is skewed.

Now, if all groups decided to not do any cracks for a year, so we could see what the effect on overall sales would be, then that would be a good thing, because it could probably actually have some meaning....however, I feel that many of the piracy justifications would go out the window, because of course sales are going to go up if people can't get them for free...particularly if there are absolutely no new games available to pirate.

Maybe all cracker groups should ban together to pursue this notion to see if they are actually hurting sales. I mean, they claim they aren't, so this is their chance to prove it. Or maybe they know their assumptions are BS just as much as the non-pirates do.

[Kreisen]

Every new AAA title that is about to come to PC this year will either have Denuvo or be always online (or both) so theres no need for any groups to band together.

[sullynathan]

Witcher 3 sold more than Witcher 2 due to more hype, better reviews and better advertisement.

[rainslacker]

@Kreisen

Wasn't aware of that...although I assume your exaggerating a bit. If so, will be interesting to see software sales going forward, and if Denuvo actually manages to curb piracy.

@sully

I wasn't aware any numbers had been released yet. What I'd be more interested is the percentage of pirated versions compared to actual sales, because more people pirated W2 than actually brought it. If the exclusion of DRM changed this dynamic, then it'd be nice to see, because it's a high enough profile game to actually be able to draw some corollary data off of.

If one of the excuses of piracy is that people are trying to get around DRM, then those people who say so should now be apt to purchase the game instead of pirating it.

[AtariFanboy]

Why does it matter if it impacts sales or not? It's still stealing.

[yomfweeee]

Duh... If a car dealership sells 1000 cars, it is okay for someone to steal one.

/sarcasm

[Jonin7Spartan]

If the car seller - sells them at extortionate prices.
/Truth

[VJGenova]

It matters because DRM has been shown to negatively impact performance. This affects me.

It matters because devs spend money developing the new DRM software. That costs transfers to the consumer, which affects me.

Sad truth is, someone stealing a digital copy of a game doesn't affect me. If it keeps the criminal from breaking into my house and stealing my games or other assets, then I say good.

Not saying that I condone piracy, I'm just indifferent to it. There are too many other things I need to spend my time worrying about.

[rainslacker]

Except devs are adding DRM and spending money on DRM software to combat those that are pirating, so those that are stealing a digital copy are having an effect on you. If piracy was not a thing, or if it's effects were inconsequential in the big picture, then you wouldn't have those things that affect you.

I hate chicken and egg arguments, but in this case, the pirates are the reason that DRM exists. The intrusive DRM which effects you is because it's taking more sophisticated methods to prevent piracy, and publishers are tired of having people play their games without buying them.

[Arty84]

people keep stealing and we ask later on why the quality and quantity in games keeps going down and theres more F2P/DLC/nickel and diming by devs

[q8kik]

I cannot believe people are actually defending this openly....

[Spoonsx]

So I guess stealing a car because you can't afford it is alright to. Breaking into someone's home and stealing stuff to support yourself. Screw everyone else because you need it. Self entitled pr!cks.

It's all the same and you want me to feel sorry for you? So you can't have everything you want in life... Get over it. You are a scumbag if you steal anything and maybe half you all just need to get out of your parents basement. FU losers.

[tee_bag242]

Piracy is copyright infringement, not theft.

The sooner you dopes realize that, the better the problem can be addressed.

No need to get spit the dummy either.

[Spoonsx]

Copyright infringement is defined as piracy or theft in any definition that you will look up. You can try and spin it any way you want to help you sleep better at night but it is what it is. Your a thief... get over it.

The losers that download the games are just as much to blame as the pirate groups that crack and distribute the games. Self entitled crybabies that will try and justify their stealing anyway possible. Pathetic.

[MRMagoo123]

It's not even close to the same thing, if I went into your house and cloned an exact copy of your car and left with that copy and you still had your car it would be the same thing., if you can't see that well I don't know how else to dumb it down enough for you.

[Spoonsx]

I'm sure the manufacturer of that car would be in touch with you and not the person that owned the car. The car company would sue you for Copyright infringement and criminal charges would also be coming there way.

I don't know how else I can dumb it down enough for you... idiot.

[JamesBroski]

You clearly don't understand lol. It's more like someone would spend time, effort and money trying to sell necklaces on the street and you would just go there and clone an exact copy of that person's necklace without paying anything. So yea he doesn't lose one, but he ain't making a profit either. If enough people do that, he'll go bankrupt.

I'm pretty sure if you were an indie dev who spent years making a game and try to self publish it you wouldm't look at this topic the same way you do.

[VJGenova]

James, as far as i know, it's the big publishers that care about piracy. It's very similar to when napster was around. Metallica and other very popular, very wealthy bands were upset they were losing profits. A lot of small, less known bands loved it cause it got their name out there and people came to their shows. The net effect in some cases was these artists made more money. I haven't heard of or read any studies that look at the effect of piracy on indie developers, but I'd be interested in reading the results if one exists.

[MRMagoo123]

Lol you get cranky and make personal attacks, that's what people of low intelligence do when they can't understand things. I'm not saying that's you but you make it seem as such.

You can't get criminal charges put against you for replicating something unless you are making a profit from it.

I think I'll put you on ignore it's obvious we can't have a conversation if you get cranky so easily when proven wrong easily.bye bye

[Spoonsx]

Then in closing let me add. If you scroll up to you first post you made the first personal attack. So I guess your intelligence is really low. And I would assume that if someone broke in to clone your car that it would be to make a profit. Don't know to many people that are so stupid (except maybe you) that they'd break into someone's house because they envy your car and want a exact copy.

Try again? On wait you ignored me. Bye bye. lol

[Bladesfist]

In the UK it can qualify as a criminal act regardless of whether or not you profit from it. It is much more likely to be held as a civil dispute though.

"Piracy, which includes copying, distribution, importation etc of infringing works, does not always require direct profits from sales - wider and indirect benefits may be enough along with inflicting financial loss onto the rights holder. For example possession of an infringing copy of a work protected by copyright in the course of your business may be a criminal offence under section 107 (1)(c) of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988."

Source - https://www.gov.uk/guidance...

[tee_bag242]

Copyright infringement isn't defined as piracy or theft - stop talking out your a$$

Here's the thing, I actually earn money of digital distribution for music. I know a thing or two about this.

If people like yourself stopped being useful do-gooder idiots and just called it what it is - copyright infringement, then we'd all be a lot better of in the settlements court.

[LostDjinn]

Actually WIPO define copyright infringment as the THEFT of "intellectual property". Intellectual property laws cover copyright, patents and trademarks. The unauthorized "copying", unauthorized use or unauthorized distribution of intellectual property is indeed categorized as theft and distribution of stolen goods.

The more you know.

OT: I don't know how much impact this will have as there are other groups who will continue doing what they're doing.

[Bladesfist]

@LostDjin

That does not qualify as an example of the legal definition of theft in the UK and it is probably the same in most countries. The crime is copyright infringement.

Source - http://www.legislation.gov....

[Export]

Hrm.. Spoonsx , You are a tool . MRMagoo didn't insult you but implied that he couldn't dumb it down anymore than that for you if you cant understand it . You called him "idiot" So you insulted him because of that then continue to insult him . MRMagoo123 is right that its not thief . Hence the reason that its not against the law ( or the big word illegal) in canada to copy video games as long as you are not making a profit . Breaking into the house is breaking the law .. standing next to a car outside of the house and copying is completely , ok . Just like leading a book to a friend or a game , its the same-thing . Its not wrong here . Just the states ...

[DarkKaine]

Gratz on being the biggest idiot on N4G.

[JamesBroski]

I'm not defending pirating, but publishers (or devs) need to understand that DRM or anti-temper are not the solution to get more sells, making good quality games is. And especially being loyal to your fans and stop taking them for mindless walking wallets. Just look at CD Projekt Red, in august, they sold more than 6 millions copies of the game. Plus, I know people who bought The Witcher 3 on multiple platforms just to support the company.

There's always a bunch of people who will pirate anyway, but the majority of gamers will gladly support publishers and developers who deserve it.

[yomfweeee]

It only takes about 30 seconds to look up lists of the most pirated games to see you're completely wrong when you act like people won't pirate good games.

[JamesBroski]

Quite the opposite, the list I've seen has publishers like Ubisoft, EA and Activision on top. Three companies that don't have a good reputation among gamers.

[yomfweeee]

So now it is bad publishers? Tell me if the games aren't good, why do they want to play them. It doesn't even make sense.

GTA, ROTTR, Fallout 4 are at the top of these lists. All game of the year contenders.

Just stop.

[JamesBroski]

@yomfweeee

Rise of the Tomb Raider hasn't been cracked yet, did you even read the article? I'm really curious to see your "lists". Start by reading the article before replying to people.

[yomfweeee]

Go look at the torrents available. Cracked or not, people are pirating it waiting for the crack to come.

Kick ass torrents lets you sort by number of seeds or number of leechers, those games I mentioned are near the top.

[sullynathan]

This is sort of a weak excuse. CDPR have the luxury of making one of the highest budgeted video games of all time while also having their own platform in which they can sell their own game (GOG). Every dev can't do this and a lot more games with DRM sell more than that too.

[TheOpenWorlder]

3DM is clearly just "waiting a year" because they haven't cracked it. They did find a LOOPHOLE around it...but it was piss poor. They even admitted it on their official forums. This isn't a damn research group. They're dumb as F. They're just using that because the truth is they CAN'T crack Denuvo whatsoever.

Research has already been done by others! No one needs a dumb pirate asian group to do the same damn research GENIUS!

Title misleading, 3DM = phony cracking group making BS excuse to not crack. End of story

[bixxel]

Then only one last jedi remains- "CPY"
If they stop, Lord Sidious's sayings will be inevitable-"Once more, the Sith will rule the galaxy."

[Heavenly King]

Sales wont change because the people that pirate games are people that cant afford them, or think the games are not worthy the price of admission.

And that not only happens with games, it happens with music and movies.

[Ark_]

The impact of DMR on sales will be minor. There were studies allready about online piracy and digital sales in the music industry. In conclusion: piracy doesn't affect digital music sales, maybe even helpfull for marketing.
http://www.ibtimes.com/onli...

From a business standpoint: you just have to calculate piracy in. If you deliver a good product and do proper marketing, it will sell. That's my two cents ...

[Kreisen]

Even if you ignore the countless studies that have been done to prove that piracy barely has any impact on the total sales of any piece of software. On the gaming side time and time again statistics have shown over 95% of the PC playerbase lacks the hardware to even play modern games @1080. If you ask me that is the main culprit of low sales figures from AAA games on this platform. It makes totall sense for games like Hearthstone, LoL, CSGO etc to top the charts. I would argue GTA sold well on PC not becouse of Denuvo but becouse of how popular it is and how it could be maxed on GTX750 1gb, thats a $50 card btw.

[Reefskye]

Piracy doesn't effect sales, when I was a kid I pirated game as I couldn't afford them. I wouldn't of bought the game if I couldn't pirate it. When I left school earned my own money I bought games, then EA and other companies started charging the same price as console games. Sorry but publishers don't pay Sony or Microsoft to publish on the PC so why should I pay extra for the same product. Then I started using sites like Kinguin. I buy games off publishers if they are a reasonable, £40 is not reasonable on the PC.

[HardcoreHDGamer]

WHAT MOST DO NOT REALISE IS, DOWNLOADING A GAME OR MUSIC ALBUM IS NOT STEALING, IT IS COPYING THE ORIGINAL FILE. THE PERSON WHO SHARES THE FILE IS THE ONE DOING WRONG. STEALING IS WHEN YOU TAKE THE ORIGINAL LEAVING NOTHING.

EVERYTIME YOU GO TO GOOGLE TO SEARCH FOR A WEBSITE, THE GOOGLE LOGO DOWNLOADS TO YOUR TEMP FILES, YOU ARE IN EFFECT STEALING GOOGLES LOGO.

EVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT.

[stiggs]

@HardcoreHDGamer

This has to be one of the most asinine statements that I've ever read.

Please tell me that you are kidding.

[kevinsheeks]

Funny is that it's probably costing publishers more to pay for the denuvo drm than what they actually get back without drm.

Pirates aren't going to magically start buying full price games they'll say F U and wait or go to a shady dealer and get it so cheap it'll make your head spin.

people are playing tomb rider for 2 dollars right now, and the devs nor publishers are seeing a penny just the person providing the game.

Fighting so hard to take every single penny out of gamers but just creating more sources for those shady actors to profit.

[Tankbusta40]

If only people cared so much about enforcing immigration laws in the USA as they do pirating video games... It makes me laugh so hard how many people are against video game pirates but look the other way on so many other laws

[kevinsheeks]

Lmao I remember a poster saying he wish pirates got the death penalty, the things you see on n4g.

[Tankbusta40]

I mean death penalty? Atleast the guy could have gone with history and evoked the code of Hammurabi and wanted to chop off hands or something!

[FN4GM]

Welcome to the U.S. where PC has another meaning, God forbid we offend anyone from another country but they can of course impose their believes and opinions on us and we have to just shut up and take it. We enforce our rules and laws and we are infringing on their rights but guess what you go to their country and you damn well better follow their rules and laws. This country has become cowardice and pathetic.

[FN4GM]

Or in other words they met their match so they're giving up, LOL.

[susanto1228]

All this is going to do is create new pirates to replace them.