Should the NX Use Cartridges?

Toby from The Game Bolt: "There are loads of rumours doing the rounds online about the NX, Nintendo’s next home console, and I would like to throw my own opinions out there. With the NX, Nintendo has the chance to go back to using cartridges instead of discs. Using cartridges would certainly give Nintendo something unique for the NX."

[KiwiViper85]

You forgot to put (Satire) in the title...

[R00bot]

In 2016 cartridges have become a viable option again, with faster read speeds possibly eliminating the need to install, and flash storage space can already exceed that of Blurays, along with the speed that flash storage is going down in price we could see it as cheap or cheaper than Blurays by the end of the NX's lifespan.

[Good-Smurf]

Imagine a Hu-Card shaped game cartridge on NX...

[herbs]

Really at this point there are only advantages to cartridges other than price which admittedly is the one big shortcoming. No moving parts in the console and no need for a large hard drive would enable Nintendo to focus on better hardware (industry leading chips) for less overall cost also more affordable for the consumer. Faster load times, no downloading to a bloated hard drive and gamers actually get to own a physical copy of their game which they could trade in instead of just a license allowing them to play it. I really hope the NX goes down this road and Nintendo turns the industry on its head even if the games end up being slightly more expensive.

[UltimateMaster]

I doubt most 3rd party developers will support those cartridges.

I have a hard time seeing EA, Ubisoft nor Activision will invest $ on their production line.

I see Square-Enix supporting whatever physical media Nintendo will make available.

It Needs to be dual-layer Blu-Rays for mega 50Gb sized games. Working in Retail, it would still cost 5~10$ just to produce a 64Gb or 128Gb.
Regardless, Nintendo cannot sell those cards for more than the cost of a Blu Ray-Discs.
They can't afford another N64 vs PS1 scenario.

On the plus, an SD card can be put into a mobile device and bring the game with you, that would work in your living room and on the go. That would be very cool.

[herbs]

Nintendo will have to front some of the bill for cartridges at least initially for third parties to make this work. They cannot cheap out this gen or there image will sink lower than it already is.

[3-4-5]

Cartridges work awesome for 3DS/Vita, there is no reason a larger cartridge couldn't work for the NX and other consoles as well.

The tech is increasing constantly and they no longer have to be the size of N64 games( which I wouldn't actually mind).

3DS games are tiny and fit 4GB of game on them.

Scale them up and I could see it working.

Also cartridges don't scratch like CD/DVD/Blu Ray discs do, and the art on them is better as well.

Considering them as an option is definitely worth thinking about.

[ShinMaster]

64GBs of flash storage is more expensive than a single Blu-ray disc with 50GBs.

[N4g_null]

The first NX the public sees will use carts. Also they could get back to adding extra cores with these things for the games that need them.. read more memory and gpu or even an apu for the extra ambitious. Plus carts are used in the 3ds and no one complains. blu rays are used but every one complains about installs. What is even cooler is imagine if you have a digital game and they let you plug in a cart for extra power for all of your digital games. This will all be possible because they are seemingly supporting vulkan load scaling and balancing in the api.

[nitus10]

Cartridges viable again in 2016 - Sigh!

To debunk that please go to any electronics seller say Ebay and cost the price of say a 64GB or 32GB usb stick then cost the price of 50x50GB Bluray disks.

Even in Original equipment manufacturer (OEM) quantities and price, solid state devices are still very much more expensive compared to even commercial prices of say a 50GB BluRay disk and in OEM prices there is absolutely no contest.

You also have to remember that any active device such as flash memory is going to be more expensive to produce than a passive device such as CD, DVD or even Bluray.

[PX54]

@ShinMaster
Depends where you shop - Amazon.co.uk has 64gb micro sd card for £16.50 (roughly the same price as a new Blu-Ray movie), any newly released game AAA costs between £40 and £50 usually. Hell you can buy a 128gb card for that price. Solid state is the way to go. not disks and not d/l only

[ShinMaster]

@ PX54

That makes no sense.

You're comparing an actual movie or game on Blu-ray vs blank flash memory.

I can buy 20 blank Blu-ray discs for the price of 1 flash memory.

[pcz]

if nintendo are hell bent on ensuring the NX's failure, then yes, use cartridges.

though i suppose there is a niche appeal for a doorstop that plays cartridge games

[Neonridr]

flash memory is a hell of a lot faster to access than an optical drive. When they say cartridge, it can still have like 64GB of memory or something on it. We aren't talking about N64 carts.

[player911]

Yea we all know memory is faster than optical, BUT also more expensive. 64gb memory cards are still about $30. Im sure they can get them wholesale cheaper but still more expensive than a disc. So unless they want to charge MORE per game, otherwise it isnt the best option.

Price aside, I am all for it.

[pcz]

its just a way for nintendo to keep making profit on every single game that is on their console since the devs have to get nintendo to manufacture the carts for them.

devs have hated it since... well, forever, and they wont be pleased if nintendo continue on that route.

plus, as everyone else with common sense is saying, the carts will come at a great expense to the consumer.

[garrettbobbyferguson]

Catridges != flash memory. Flash memory is already used in the 3DS. Loading times would be immensely faster. The only downside is the slightly higher production cost of the chip. If you don't know what you are talking about, please do not make such insane comments.

@Player

A five pack of blank bluray disks cost 12 dollars from Best Buy (I'm using this as a reference, not as a fact). If we assume that bluray costs that much for the consumer versus the price that flash drives/sticks cost for the consumer, we can also assume that these companies could make produce them much cheaper. You are correct that it would still be more expensive. But I'd like to think that manufacturing them in such bulk quantities would negate that cost.

[u4one]

optical drives are old tech at this point. the only reason we switched to them was because we didn't have the storage capability on anything solid state. those days are gone. Solid state is the future.

[Utalkin2me]

@player911

Nintendo dont charge more per game on 3ds? Nintendo has never charged more for cartridge based games.

[3-4-5]

@ PCZ - Then why does the 3DS ship with Sandisk Cartridges and allow other brands to be used that are NOT Nintendo.

Only Sony has done that with the Vita so far.

Nice lie....nice try.

[pcz]

''Nintendo required that they be the sole manufacturer of all cartridges, and that the publisher had to pay in full before the cartridges for that game be produced. Cartridges could not be returned to Nintendo, so publishers assumed all the risk. As a result, some publishers lost more money due to distress sales of remaining inventory at the end of the NES era than they ever earned in profits from sales of the games. Because Nintendo controlled the production of all cartridges, it was able to enforce strict rules on its third-party developers, which were required to sign a contract by Nintendo that would obligate these parties to develop exclusively for the system, order at least 10,000 cartridges, and only make five games per year.''

via wiki

and im pretty sure its been the same story ever since.

its the main reason why they have lost all major 3rd party support.

[N4g_null]

Actually memory is about to hit rock bottom. Samsung has plenty of fab space for it. If they are making the chips at 28 nm now then 14nm is going to be super cheap. Samsung is already about to flood the market with ddr4 modules.

[u4one]

solid state media is the future and optical discs are the past. you could store an entire game on a solid state medium like an sd card or similar or even like little ssd's and the performance would smoke an optical drive. Look at the bandwidth on some SD cards lately. they scream. OD's are pretty much the slowest medium ever next to tape.

[Phunkydiabetic1]

All that doesnt matter if the cost isnt right. And right now the cost ISNT right. A bluray disc is pennies to manufacture compared to the many dollars that a cartridge would be. It isnt going to happen.

Im not sure if Nintendo could cause a bigger backlash from third parties than they already have but going with cartridges would be a big step.

[u4one]

@phynkydiabetic1

sure cost is always an issue but even still - a lower end bandwidth sd card is still faster than the fastest optical drive by a pretty decent amount. you can pick up a slower speed 64gb sd card on amazon for $13. Now thats a retail consumer facing price - nintendo could very easily strike a contract with sandisk (similar to what they've already done with the 3ds) that drive their cost down substantially, while still getting way more performance (and durability) than an optical disk. you would also cut down on hard drive costs because you wouldn't need huge, fast hard drives because the game executable could run off the card itself and meet performance needs. they could even store the patches on the cards, making even more hard drive space savings. theres a way it would balance out while gaining marked improvement

[nitus10]

Yes I am quite sure games will come out that never need patching. Wait is that a pig I see flying. :-)

Why do you think the latest gaming consoles PS3, PS4, XBox360 (eventually) and XB1 came out with hard drives. Basically a 6x Bluray drive can only output at about 27MB/sec which is fine for installing on a hard disk drive so that a 50GB game can be installed in approximately 30 minutes.

I am well aware that some patches (eg. The Witcher 3) can be in the order of 17GB (a bit much IMHO but I digress) so you would need a 64GB cartridge to support that. Now we have a major problem.

Unlike the the original gaming cartridges which were read only you have to make pretty much all cartridges readable and writeable just to allow for the possibility of patching. Do you honestly think Nintendo or even Sony and Microsoft for that matter would allow this since it opens up the game to hacking/cracking.

[UlyssesFeral]

@nitus

Quite a few 3DS games have patches and it works just fine.

[SaveMeJebus]

If that meant they could get rid of loading screens and still have graphics on par or exceeding those of PS4, I'd buy it for sure. Even if the game cartridges cost $70-$75 new.

[jivah]

Graphics dont depend on storage medium

[nitus10]

You can pretty much improve loading performance of your PS4 now if you install a solid state disk. No cartridge is going to be beat a conservative 540MB/sec SSD compared to a high end and expensive flash drive with it's 120MB/sec performance.

Of course SSD's are not exactly cheap however they are coming down in price.

Anyone who has ever deigned and built a PC will advice you to get a 60GB or more SSD for the system disk since your overall performance which includes boot and application launching increases dramatically.

[N4g_null]

It's confirmed the new system will look like a NES! Your games will survive the next WW! YAY!

[crazychris4124]

If it's faster and holds more data then sure why not

[Concertoine]

But it'll drive up game prices, like in the N64 days. Although carts have their perks (cheaper hardware, faster load times, durability, copy protection) the difference in price is enough to render it inferior.

[marloc_x]

3DS carts are KILLING consumers, aren't they Concertoine😒

[Concertoine]

@marloc

That's because 3ds games dont typically take any more than 1.5 gigs. Next gen games will probably be well over 50 gigabytes, with some games this gen over that number.

If you wanna pay 75 bucks for games, you go right ahead though ;)

[Erik7357]

Doubt it, mass production makes it cheaper.

[2pacalypsenow]

Mass production didn't stop N64 games from being more expensive.

[R00bot]

@Concertoine Nintendo would take the blow to keep prices competitive, and cartridges might eliminate the need for game installs. With the speed flash storage is progressing I can see us having carts for close to as cheap as Blurays by the end of the NX's life span.

[Monduu]

@Concertoine

Xenoblade is 80$ in Canada... Just saying

[Neonridr]

flash memory is a hell of a lot cheaper nowadays. Look at SD Card and USB drive pricing...

[ChickeyCantor]

Cartridge prices will differ depending on how big the games are.

if a game is only 5 gig there is no reason for that company to use a 64gb cart.

It can be tailored towards build sizes.

[UltraNova]

Game size, read only SSD sticks?

[DarkBlood]

if true, the worst case scenario is they could have a wiiu disc reader thing like microsoft did for the hd dvd drive attachment for the 360

bad idea i know but yeah.

[Erik7357]

They will probably do a digital version of it.

[LOL_WUT]

Nintendo would be taking a step backwards if they went with cartridges, and the possibility of any backwards compatibility. ;)

[marloc_x]

These carts will be as fast as a blue hedgehog😉

[Kalebninja]

Last I heard Cartridges are superior to discs.

[Erik7357]

Oh i personally think itll look cool and a throwback.

We are in digital age and we just download for backwards compatability and nintendo would probably make cartridge versions of wiiu games for nx.
Wouldnt be a problem for me cause the only games worth playing on the wiiu were a handful of Nintendo published games.

[OtakuDJK1NG-Rory]

oh like how Sony took a step backward with PSP to Vita from UMD disc to cartridges right...

Step backward

Cartridges will be better as it will be able to hold more space than disc and it cheaper as well.

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

Not if they also allowed disks as well as carts to be played on NX.
Best of both worlds, and if Nintendo played their cards right and showed the benefits of cartridges again, we might see them become popularized a second time for home consoles.

[PhoenixUp]

Let's not forget how Nintendo lost their top spot in the industry in the first place.

[marloc_x]

"Blockbuster Video"

..lest we forget💿

[Kalebninja]

How did they? Cause last I checked they were on top just a couple of years ago and them falling off had absolutely nothing to do with cartridges.

[TheCommentator]

Them falling off "in the first place" was due to the N64 using cartridges. It has nothing to do with a couple of years ago.

[R00bot]

To be fair their handhelds have always been cartridge based and have always outsold every home console they've been up against (bar PS2).

[Phunkydiabetic1]

@TheCommentator

How the fuck does your comment have 10 disagrees? I am assuming those people are under the age of 16 and werent even alive when Nintendo started losing its way with consumers and third party devs...

[OtakuDJK1NG-Rory]

Because at the time cartridges were expensive.

I don't get why you guys love bringing up the past.
The past is the past.

[R00bot]

There is that quote "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it", but I agree that it's not very appropriate in this instance.

[ziggurcat]

uh... no.

[TheCommentator]

Come on, don't you miss blowing into cartridges just a little bit?

[ziggurcat]

can't say i do... while we're at it, why don't we go back to the commodore 64 cassette tapes?

[ninsigma]

And it turns out that was bad for them xD
Guess I spent my childhood living on the edge :p

[Utalkin2me]

@ziggurcat

You do realize flash memory is way better then discs right?

[jcnba28]

Probably not a good idea at this day in age.

[nowitzki2004]

Why not?

[jcnba28]

Well cartridges are usually more expensive to make than discs so that could raise the price of games like it did for N64.

Square Enix left N64 for PS1 because discs could store more content.

Maybe if Nintendo are able to make the cartridges the same size as 3DS cartridges it may work not sure.

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

That's assuming they go back to the old form of carts, or if they don't allow the use of both carts AND CD's on the NX.

[Philface]

You pay more but you gain much better performance and durability. Seems a good deal to me.

[DivineAssault]

Remember turbo grafx 16? No? Well they used hu cards and something along those lines wouldnt be expensive for them.. Look at ps vita games, something like that but up to 128GB storage would work just fine.. They never put blu ray/dvd players in their systems so it would be perfect actually

[ninsigma]

If it's viable and is better than discs then why not?? I don't know the tech so I don't know if it actually is better but if it is then no reason why not. I would like disk though so there would be more chance I could play my wii u games on it.

[ziggurcat]

i suspect that with the file sizes of today's game, cartridges wouldn't be a very viable option.

[ninsigma]

Yeah like I said I don't know how the tech works so I'm not sure how the memory works on them and how much they can actually hold. Today's file sizes are collosul in comparison to when cartridges were used on consoles so that would be a big factor in that.

[ziggurcat]

@ninsigma:

and if cartridges are more expensive, i'd rather not pay $100+ for a game, considering that games in canada right now cost upwards of $85.

[ninsigma]

Yeah price needs to be good. It's 75 euro here in Ireland so digit wise, we're not too far behind you. The prices are getting ridiculous!

[Utalkin2me]

Games range in size, and so could the cartridges. Have 5 gig game then you only need a 5 gig cartridge which would be way cheaper then lets say a 50 gig.

[rainslacker]

They might be in the next few years if pricing trends continue. I'm assuming of course we're talking of standard SD type memory, possibly in a proprietary housing. Certainly wouldn't be a standard SD card I wouldn't think, or it would at least have some sort of encryption method like Sony's Vita cards.

I personally don't see it happening though unless the console does have some sort of mobile function as has been speculated.

Firstly, even though the financing may be viable in a few years, optical media is still much much cheaper, by a fairly large margin. Sure, we could say that a 64GB card is less than $2 to produce, so no biggie to the publisher, but consider that a Blu-Ray disc is about 25 cents to manufacture at the scale of the average game manufacturing run...maybe a few cents cheaper if you're making GTA with 10 million copies or something.

Anyhow, they both seem cheap, but consider that $1.75 difference a million copies. That's 1.75 million dollars lost just on the manufacturing alone, and that's a trend that publishers are trying to get away from, not run towards....hence the push for digital.

Anyhow, just an FYI for some of the commentors on here, best I could find for FOB pricing for SD card manufacturing about about 78 cents for an 8GB chip per 100K ordered(memory alone, no housing). 64GB chips looked to be running around $7 per 100K. A contract with Nintendo for large quantities could lower this a bit, but there is a point that it can't go below due to the actual cost of materials, and the actual cost to manufacture, not to mention the need to make money off of the actual product itself.

Unfortunately, I can't tell if there are cheaper options, because I don't run that kind of business and if I explored more prices, I'd have to sign NDA's with the manufacturer to not discuss the costs anyhow. But seems that they're already so cheap that I can't imagine them getting much cheaper for the smaller ones, and not much room left for the bigger ones. Kind of like hard drives. At best, bigger ones just get cheaper to produce, so the price stabilizes at the lowest point it can due to the other factors inherent in manufacturing.

[greenmiker]

Yes please!! Its very annoying the loading time on discs.

[Phunkydiabetic1]

You do realize that all the new systems (ps4, xbox and pc even) all run their games off of the harddrive right? The disc is literally a delivery device....

[Stealth20k]

Does not matter either way

[R00bot]

...You'll be getting it either way?

I know I probably will be, unless they screw up in a major way.

[rainslacker]

Both methods are personally fine for me. Particularly since the PS4/X1 release where they load to the hard drive anyways. Granted, SD memory is actually faster than a hard drive, particularly for seek times.

[higgins78]

OMG! Just woke up to these rumours. I was/am buying the NX anyhow - no matter what - but throw using cartridges into the mix...YES YES YES.

I love and enjoy Nintendo best when they go out on a limb.

[Ristul]

Yes please :)

[fungusar]

Yes , most thing clever thing is to use same size as the 3DS, then the NX also could play 3DS games.

[M3TR01DFANBOY]

I hope so honestly. No disc drive to burn out. I dont know if this is a legitimate concern or not but on the surface is seems like carts are better.

[Bobafret]

BR Drive just died on my console, it was out of warranty so I had to pay for repairs.

[rainslacker]

If you take cost out of the equation, carts are definitely better than optical media. Even removing the fact optical media is more susceptible to damage from the equation, carts just provide faster data transfer, the ability to save directly to the card, and no seek times. There is also a the ability to use the card as a sort of virtual memory device, or even add processors to the chip to improve some games not unlike some of the old SNES carts, however, that would depend on the form factor, and if publishers are willing to spend the money on it.

Optical became the norm, because for the longest time, price per MB/GB was drastically less for optical by huge margins, and the price to manufacture didn't fluctuate as wildly as memory prices did. The price per GB is getting much closer, however optical still tends to be about 6X cheaper, but the difference isn't that drastic for a single purchase...but might be for a publisher to manufacture. The pricing fluctuations have mostly gone away, however, physical memory chips can be susceptible to market fluctuations, but with more competition nowadays, it means less chance of huge spikes in costs like what could happen 20 years ago.

[Antifan]

That would mean absolutely no 3rd party games support.

[blawren4]

Explain how a simple change in storage medium would matter to third parties. I'm not a dev so i don't know. To me iy doesn't seem like it would matter

[gleepot]

It wouldn't make a difference. He/she is just assuming dumb things that make no sense.

[Phunkydiabetic1]

Are you under the age of 16? If so you mightve missed the time when Sega and Sony were both moving forward with disc based systems while Nintendo stubbornly started their bullshit trend of doing whatever they want instead of what consumers and developers want.

Nintendo stuck with cartridges and they havent recovered since. Many developers just refused to port games over to the n64. A trend that still continues to this day due to decisions that border on retarded.

[Antifan]

Cartridges are more expensive to make, that simple. 3rd parties like EA and Act aren't going to chuck up the extra cost so you guys can ride the nostalgia train. You guys are dreaming. Cartridges on home consoles will never make a comeback.

[rainslacker]

They'd support whatever medium they had to if the profits were there. It would mean it would have to have a sizable install base that actually purchased games, like say on the 3DS. The bigger publishers are trying to lower their costs as much as possible on the manufacturing end. They aren't even bothering to put in 25 cents worth of printing material anymore, so it is hard to imagine they'd be too thrilled with spending a extra dollar or two just for the cart itself. But if the game would sell enough, they'd do it.

[DivineAssault]

It would be cool if history repeats itself & we go back to cartridges.. Small SD card like game would be much easier to collect and store.. I still dont understand why the game disc boxes are so thick.. They should be thinner like those movie collection cases..

[rainslacker]

The box size is more of a retail thing. Publishers want to have shelf presence, and the larger boxes make it seem like you're getting more.

Although I do agree, thinner boxes would be appropriate. I'd say this is true for all the manufacture's right now.

At least they're using a thinner plastic now, and Nintendo has been using those boxes with use 25% less plastic by cutting out sections of the surface since halfway through the Wii gen.

I like the size of the Vita boxes personally. Seems to be about the smallest I'd want to go, but wouldn't mind if they were more square like the 3DS boxes. You could easily fit about 12 Vita games within a Vita box, but anything smaller than making it square is getting a bit too small for my tastes, and it'd make it harder to have presence in the store.

Then of course there's the fact the smaller the case, the easier it is to steal, but most places have ways to minimize that.

[DivineAssault]

Thats what i was thinking.. Vita size game boxes would be perfect.. Its not like we get booklets anymore

[nitus10]

You can do this now and have been able to do this for years with digital downloads if you have a decent internet connection although once you have installed the game onto your storage device then the the delivery mechanism becomes mute and you then are limited by the performance of your storage device(s).

Put a game on a modern Solid State Disk (aprox 540MB/sec) if you can afford one and you will get much better performance than a cartridge based system (124Mb/sec and that is one of the faster and more expensive ones) assuming cpu(s), gpu, memory and motherboards are the same.

[DivineAssault]

I dont like digital software.. Im a physical game collector.. The only digital games i get are free, ps plus, or indies

[meche334]

Yes a form of cartridges that are really static on space. Kinda like sd cards. Different memory for different games. Therefore devs wont have to compress something due to storage space.

[nitus10]

Even the cheapest OEM cartridge is still going to be more expensive than the OEM price of a 25GB or 50GB Bluray disk and 100GB plus Bluray disks are available now but are still relatively expensive.

There is another media which had enormous potential (6TB and more) and that was Holographic Versatile Disks but not much has been heard about them since 2007.

Basically consoles as well as PC's now play games off the storage media they are installed on, be it spinning media such as a Hard Disk Drive to Solid State Disks which have conservatively a 540MB/sec read/write performance and no high performance flash drive has even come close to those speeds.

[SegaGamer]

If it makes gaming better then why not ?

[Duke19]

More storage and faster speeds? Sounds great until the first game comes out for $80

[Jag-T1000]

I think the only reason we install games on an Xbox one and ps4 is because blurayS read so damn slow. So..cartridges would be an awesome thing for the NX.

[rainslacker]

I think if that were the case, then both companies would give devs the option of how to access the media. I mean, some games don't require constant access to the software, so the slower read speed isn't that harmful.

I think it's more to extend the life of one of the few parts that's likely to wear and go bad in the systems. Laser's tend to be the most repaired part of a console from my experience.

[nitus10]

The Bluray read on a 6x device (PS4 and XB1) is 27MB/sec which is ideal for installing data onto a 5400rpm HDD (the default) or even onto a 7200rpm HDD. Even if you have a solid state disk (SSD) it would still take about 30 minutes to install a 50GB game.

Once you have installed your game you can now play it from your hard drive although you do actually use your Bluray drive with the media in if required for authentication purposes. Once a game is authenticated the BD drive is not used. This effectively renders any performance gains from using cartridges mute.

Basically to play a game on ony computer and console are still computers, the limits are reading/writing to your disk and the overall performance of your machine. A game playing off a SSD will load and write so much faster than a standard cartridge.

It must be noted that in terms of cents/GB a SSD is very much more expensive than a HDD although the price is dropping.

[Stringerbell]

Double comment sorry =/

[Trilithon]

If it has games and they are fun and look good, it really doesn't matter.

[Stringerbell]

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread. The cost of a blu ray and a comparable SD / flash card is night and day. The conversation should end there. However looking at read speeds, the PS4's Bluray drive speed is 6x, which is 216 Mb/s. This is faster than all but the highest class of SD cards (Ultra High Speed Class 3 just barely beats it) -- and of course these cards are more expensive. There is another caveat though, modern consoles install the data as opposes to the old days of a constant read. Also its more than likely if the NX would use some sort of proprietary SD card increasing the price even more! This is a terrible idea and not the the way you win back third party support. Because all one has to do is look back to the production costs of the PSX to N64 games

[Phunkydiabetic1]

Finally. A comment filled with common sense in a section drowning in uninformed shit masquerading as "fact".

[Stringerbell]

Yeah it seems those wanting this aren't even considering the tech associated with 'cartridges' in the present. It just sounds cool and therefore they want it. Allusions to faster load times are just that. There is no upside to this as a consumer other than a gimmick of something you can hold. Big deal. Get your third party fix on the NX just pay $10 more than the PS4 or X1 version that'll go over well...

[Phunkydiabetic1]

That is what these people dont get. The fact Nintendo used cartridges for the n64 kicked off the STILL continuing trend of next to no third party support on their consoles. Im assuming most of the commentors here are under age 16?

Or how about the one guy suggesting Nintendo use cartridges for their games and ALSO have a disc drive for third parties......what?! Do ANY of these people here realize that discs are merely a delivery device nowadays since the games run off the disc drive? Why the fuck do I even come to this website if I am consistantly shocked and sent into a rage when reading the comments?!?!?!

[Stringerbell]

Lol yeah I mean there are niche holdouts for all sorts of tech. But even these people accept the novelty of whatever it is they love as being just that.

[_LarZen_]

Yeah that would be nice. I'd take fast new RAM chips over discs any day.

[Phunkydiabetic1]

And for what reason would you want that? Both the ps4 and the xbox one (and pc's) use the disc just to install the game. After that the disc is used to authenticate while the game runs off the harddrive. So why exactly would you want a far expensive alternative to an issue that doesnt even exist?

[_LarZen_]

Faster data transfer/read. Scratch resistent. No more disc spin noise.

And cartridges are way cooler :)

[yeahright2]

hmmm, most interesting article I've read today. I'd like it to, but it'll probably come down to price. We already pay less for games when adjusting for inflation and resources used(payroll, R&D, shipping etc.) I'd be willing to drop and extra $10 per game, but I might be in the minority... probably in the minority.

[JuZtCallMePapi]

There's another reason Nintendo might bring back the cartridge. As previously mentioned, technology is rather tiny and amazingly more advanced compared to the N64 days. Everyone also knows that, like most software businesses, they are hugely against piracy. The one advantage Carts will always have over Discs is, that they can implement hardware/chips on the games themselves. In order to play the game off the cart, they would have to authenticate themselves to the device, otherwise it'd be a no-go. Or they can incorporate some sort of hardware encryption on the Carts (just like they do with hardware on other late gen console) so they couldn't be exported/dumped (ROMs).

This would, in Nintendo's eyes, possibly be worth the addition cost since it would mean more revenue in the long run.

This would be an interesting turn of events, to say at the very least!

[nitus10]

I know what you are getting at but that would be a total disaster for Nintendo since most third party game producers would just stop supporting them.

It is so much cheaper an more efficient to have an inbuilt (preferably upgradeable) storage device and load the game data by digital download and from passive media such as Bluray.

Note: Once a game is loaded onto disk the Bluray (BD) reader is only used for authentication if required. If you have digitally downloaded the game the BD device is not used.

[JuZtCallMePapi]

I can some resistance at first but I wouldn't say it would be a total disaster. Nintendo, in the past and as far as I understood, has produced the carts for their games. Developers simply had to put their games on them - relatively speaking. With the same concept, they would be able to offer an extra layer of protection with built-in encryption/authentication on the carts.

I agree with you that Disc and software protection would be easiest and less costly but this is about *what IF* Nintendo brings back Carts; what would be the benefit?

If I were a developer, this would be an attractive option. 1) Nintendo needs strong support to succeed and would therefore waive any extra fee to the protection in order to entice more developers. 2) More revenue in the long run, from said protection, because of required purchases and less piracy. Nintendo would hopefully see the logic in eating the costs (at least in the beginning [PS3 thinking here]) in order to attract as many Devs/Publishers as possible.

As for the storage, I can see Nintendo being Nintendo and coming up with some proprietary removable/upgradeable HDD with the same hardware encryption/authentication chip as the one in the carts. That way the same protection would be available to downloadable games. If the HDD doesn't authenticate then gaming is blocked or HDD doesn't boot.

I can see that I'm kinda rambling on and on ... but you get the idea.

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

If the NX is capable of using both disks AND cartridges, that would be one of the best things EVER.
Nintendo could stick to carts while letting third parties stick to disks.

Best of both worlds, and we'd finally get decent load times and stuff again.XD

[nitus10]

I take it that means you don't mind paying extra for a device like that for little if any performance gain.

"Nintendo could stick to carts while letting third parties stick to disks."

I don't even know how to reply to a laughable statement like that.

"Best of both worlds, and we'd finally get decent load times and stuff again."

Say as an example you put a solid state disk with its fairly conservative 540MB/sec read/write into the PS4 (it will cost but what the hay) do you honestly think a cartridge with its max 125MB/sec (this is the expensive one) is going to be faster.

Effectively cartridges are dead as far as gaming goes although there is nothing wrong with using flash drives as a read/write portable media and in that they excel.

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

We don't yet know what kind of performance gain Nintendo could get out of carts with today's technology.
I mean, just look at everything they crammed into one tiny disk with Xenoblade X.
They might not always have the most powerful gear, but they're wizards at optimizing the living heck out of them.
If they make some custom chips for their carts out of affordable materials, it might not be the expensive extra people think it would be, and it might even gain a new level of performance depending on what Nintendo has done with it.

Besides, if they wanted to, they could make that feature an option rather than something built in.

[Psychotica]

My only concern is that it would give the appearance of using old technology even though it wouldn't be.

[nitus10]

There is nothing wrong with using old technology if it is appropriate. Using cartridges for games is an excellent example of a non-appropriate and potentially expensive technology that will have little if any performance gains.

I have given more detailed reasoning in my previous comments so I won't repeat them here.

[Stringerbell]

I really dont think people are interested in reason in this thread. I gave cold hard numbers that I didn't pull out of the air showing why cartridges aren't ideal and got thumbed down. Oh well ignorance is bliss I suppose...

[Zoombael]

Watdyamenshd?

The question is, is it economical/practical.

[codarossa]

If the NX does turn out to be a hybrid of sorts for home console and handheld gaming this is likely the way they'll go.

I say bring it on! It's a very Nintendoesque way to go. I'm willing to pay more for it too.

[About30Ninjas]

I wouldn't recommended it they gonna be alot of ppl who gonna feel Nintendo taking a step back with using cartridge again, me personally I don't care I just wanna play Nintendo awesome exclusives

[kambeix]

read-only memory would be much cheaper than a normal flash drive, so a universal USB drive with a read-only storage for the main game and read-write memory for saving (and updates) would be much cheaper than a normal USB drive, if the specs were open and drives themselves could be manufactured by developers and not a closed technology.

I see it viable and not expensive in the long run. Production costs would also be low if the console sells well.

[gedden7]

I really hope they do. The last time Nintendo used Cartridges was the N64. I know Nintendo misses the fast load times and reliability of that media. The 3ds still uses it and I don't see those games being over priced. i believe it will work and make games a lot better. To add, the graphics can be considerably better. Flash cards can hold MORE than blu rays and as blu ray and disc formats can hold high resolution texture packs and other software to aid graphics. Well so can flash cards and cartridges, perhaps more so because larger memory. So I hope Nintendo goes solid state. Its much fastest btw.

[originaljohn]

Haven't Nintendo's handhelds always used cartridges? Why does a console have to use discs? My PC has neither!

[conanlifts]

The other advantage of cartridges is missed. Anyone remember donkey kong when it first came out on the snes. Didn't they pop a superfx chip in that cartridge to allow the game to work on that console. I think they also did the same for star fox. If they could do the same again it would give them a slight edge.

[rizer]

It really depends what the system is. If it is a hybrid system I could see nintendo going with carts. Nintendo has no room for error here. If the specs are not equal or better then the Xbox 1 it's DOA. Third parties won't even take a chance on it.

[Miacosa]

No, digital. Cost too much.

[recto85]

My famicom carts are still working after 30 yrs. I can't say that about early pc compact discs. I would love to see games on cartridges or some sort of flash cards.

[ZeekQuattro]

I'd be all for cartridges.