The updated Microsoft lineup shows that the company's increased PC support is very real. On the flip side, Xbox One is left with very few exclusives.
In the rear view mirror
Apparently PC and Xbox gaming are mutually exclusive *shrugs* How the Xbox is in the rear view mirror when it comes to Microsoft's efforts with PC is beyond me. Would love to see a compelling argument in favour of the point though.
People buy consoles for 2 reasons: Exclusive games and the "plug and play" aspect. If Windows 10 is apparently easy to use and on top of that offers the XBox exclusives... Do we really need the XB1 on the market?
@The_BlackHeart__ yeah as a lot of people don't have a very powerful pc to game on. Also I am a big pc user but dont game on them I own a WiiU and Xbox one as ide rather play my games sat on the sofa with a big tv than a chair and a 22" monitor so in answer to your question yes we do need the xbox one market.
3 reasons actually... most people dont have a pc that can run games at the same quality as consoles
@mc You do know you can plug your PC into your tv and play on your couch right? I have a rig with a 970 and thats the only way I play.
Microsoft, Phil Spencer, Let Xbox run PC games.
lol. dont sweat it Septic... thars what we in the business like to call "wishful thinking". N4Gites have been determined to paint XB1 as unnecessary for as long as ive been here. Consoles are not PCs, they just wont admit it.
@The_BlackHeart__ "People buy consoles for 2 reasons: Exclusive games and the "plug and play" aspect." actually it's much more than that. cost is also another factor. along with where their friends play online, and a social experience that covers all games. the pc is often viewed as fragmented. steam may be the leader but they are not the only ones who distribute all pc games. "If Windows 10 is apparently easy to use and on top of that offers the XBox exclusives... Do we really need the XB1 on the market?" you honestly think the ps4 is doing so well because of exclusives? ask sony why they would do an exclusive deal for games like no mans sky and street fighter and the witness if they too are coming on the pc? the pc already co-exists in the marketplace and is often viewed as not being a direct competitor because they know there are hundreds of millions of gamers who prefer console gaming. after all the top selling games on consoles are also on the pc a lot of the time. yes exclusives help but not as much as you think they do. nintendo for example is probably the top tiered company who has the largest impact for 1st party games and not many are willing to buy their hardware any longer to play them. @martinstrings "dont sweat it Septic... thars what we in the business like to call "wishful thinking". N4Gites have been determined to paint XB1 as unnecessary for as long as ive been here. Consoles are not PCs, they just wont admit it." i've come to this realization as well here on the forums. it goes like this 'the witcher 3 is coming and so is fallout 4, can't wait to play it on my ps4'. then a game like quantum break gets announced for the pc as well and all of the sudden everyone turns into pc gamers. 'well that's one less reason for me to buy an xbox one'. it's actually funny when you see this shift in perception when in reality it's all a game of baiting others by implying the xbox one has no place in the market and just further clarifies their input in the whole system wars they can't seem to get away from on the forums.
I game on both the Xbox and PC. I don't see Xbox games going to PC as a "threat" or taking away from the console any more than I do games that are playable on PS4 and Vita. If you are a dedicated PC fan and wanted to play console games, you would have done what I did long ago and bought a console too. The only ones that seem bothered by Xbox games not being "exclusive" if they are on PC are Playstation fans. They want to downplay the Xbox while ignoring the fact Playstation games are available on multiple devices besides consoles. The bottom line is Xbox games being available on PC increases the available audience for developers and offers more choice for Microsoft gamers. I think this far outweighs bragging rights about exclusivity.
They are different markets for sure but if a PC gamer wants to pick up a console it would make the most sense to pick up a PS4 rather than an Xbox1. While a few PS4 exclusives are on PC, none of the big games are, with this it seems like the majority of xbox1 exclusives will be on PC...PS4 and PC offers far more value than Xbox1 and PC
Right now multiplatform games sell pretty well on consoles, despite the PC versions consistently offering better quality at better prices. So yes, evidently there is a market for consoles and console gaming even when PC is an option. Who cares though? Less reasons to buy an XBox is nothing to fret about. As gamers we're not getting any less games overall, so the net loss is absolutely nothing. Worst case, you get the same games for your XBox as you would have anyway and don't lose out on anything. On the flipside. potentially you save some cash because you don't need to buy a console, and still get the chance play those would-have-been-exclusive games with better visual fidelity. Can't lose. Let Microsoft sweat on the success of the XBox division. We're consumers, we should want what is best for ourselves.
It makes Xbone less relevant and my PC/PS4 combo sweet.
Now if you have a good pc and ps4 you are good to go because you can play almost all exclusives and more and people who think building a pc is expensive but remember that it's a one time investment for a long time and you can upgrade the hardware as per required. Now it's up to you that you want to buy xbox or not because it doesn't matter.
@The_BlackHeart__ The problem is that the Windows is an open platform so how do you leverage platofrming fees and Xbox Live fees when Valve is right there. Microsoft focuses on Xbox because they simply can not expect people to pay to play online on PC.
and its always a psuedo cop out a Pc isnt a console.. so MS feels no way about sharing with it..the games they share are still xbox exclusive.. duh. I hate when ppl use the " Its on pc so it isnt exclusive" logic.. its a helluva reach
I love how people magically have a gaming PC when MS titles are invovled but when res debates crop up then building a PC costs a jillion dollars.
Even I am a avid PC gamer but still own consoles because of the obvious major exclusives. Is Microsoft's Halo 5 going to PC? No! That's a major reason why Xbox is relevant despite certain "Microsoft exclusives", but as some mentioned here the price is a huge factor and the service provided rather than dealing with so many discreet parts. That's why something like Recore won't effect Xbox sells significantly. If you can't afford a PC you're more likely buying an Xbox One and that's the majority of gamers in the industry.
People seem to also forget that a lot of console gamers are young adults, teens and kids. A lot of these consoles are bought for them by parents or relatives, these family members walk right into Gamestop or Bestbuy and say give me an Xbox One, and walk out. They don't have the knowledge of asking for a specific PC rig with specific parts inside or want to pay that much for a PC when it's primary use could be just gaming. That is the benefit and main reason for purchasing consoles. If most exclusives for Xbox One go to PC then who cares? It doesn't limit them on Xbox One and it doesn't take away the community or members on Live. All it does is add an extra road of revenue that in turn can be put right back into studios to make more games and new IP's.
I said all this years ago (nearly 3) that MS should focus on making Xbox a catalyst for PC gaming before the XBO even launched, and fanboys were up in arms complaining about it would be stupid, and all this other non-sense proving they had no clue about PC gaming, and how Xbox has pretty much practically been a simplified PC since the original. (the comments are too far back to bother looking for, so here's my blog) http://n4g.com/blogs/detail... Now here we are with Xbox running Windows kernels, Xbox controllers working on PC, Xbox games streaming to PC, Xbox games coming to PC, Keyboard and Mouse support in development for Xbox, and so on. It just makes sense to do this, and MS needs to send me my check in the mail for reading my blog and appropriately applying it to their business.
@Septic "I love how people magically have a gaming PC when MS titles are invovled but when res debates crop up then building a PC costs a jillion dollars." the hypocrisy is while astounding not very surprising. in a perfect world all games would be on all platforms and the consumer could decide where they want to play based solely on unique experiences only that system can do (which is where nintendo likes to build their software around more than the others). that would mean price, services like playstation plus, xbox live, ea access, psn now that sort of thing, power of the hardware, and all that would be reasons to gravitate towards a platform. not holding software hostage because all that really does is build up walls as we can see right here on the forums how not everyone actually wants to be together and only talk about the games.
Am I the only one that plugs my console into a monitor? I hate TV lag of today. Makes me miss CRTs.
@mcstorm You do know that you can hook your computer up to your TV as easy as you can a video game system, right? Most PC players I know play on their large-screen tv's while sitting on the couch. It's been years since I played PC games while sitting at a desk and using a computer monitor.
Thing is, if most of your games are available on Windows then it kind of defeats the whole point of the console. Microsoft would have been much better off if they made Steam and never entered the console market.
Ironically better support for PC, leaves Xbox in a better place! An example is for instance Halo Wars 2, an RTS. Historically RTS' aren't made for consoles, but since it is also coming to PC, maybe that is why it also comes to Xbox! Because you can enjoy it on PC, doesn't mean it suddenly is unenjoyable on Xbox!
@Septic Well as an owner of a gaming PC and an X1 I would probably err towards a Windows 10 game than the X1 as my pc as much better performance. So there would be less need for me to buy a game for X1.
@fiveby9 "Well as an owner of a gaming PC and an X1 I would probably err towards a Windows 10 game than the X1 as my pc as much better performance. So there would be less need for me to buy a game for X1." same here but so what? either way microsoft wants you to enjoy and buy what they are offering. wther it be playing minecraft on your windows phone or minecraft on your windows 10 pc or you xbox one. they want you to be part of their ecosystem. they will even sell it on the playtation and nintendo and android devices to make even more money. what a weird concept i know. you think apple cares if you buy need for speed on the pc when they sell it on ios? people enjoy various gadgets whether it be handheld portable devices, game consoles or the pc or even streaming to your tv through a box like apple tv. one of these days people will begin to focus on the fun while playing the content and care less about the hardware it's playing on. one day that hardware will become a thing of the past but right now some on the forums especially want to use that hardware as some sort of weapon to divide others.
@Septic- Add ReCore to that list as they've confirmed it for PC. I don't think XB is in the rear view, merely they want to focus on both PC and XB and many things Phil has been stating is hinting at them no longer making exclusives to XB in favor of selling a device. He is correct to do this as not a lot of evidence points to MOST XB users buying a XB solely for MS published titles. ie Halo 5's low sales on top of low units moved. I mean....I would assume if its to be believed that MOST are buying a XB because of this, those sales would be higher, but most buy consoles for 3rd party games, not first. Mind you, I've stated this dozens of times and all this is showing over time is what was being hinted at and what i was pointing at many times is happening over and over every time they announce a new game. Just like last gen, my reasons to own a XB lowered and lowered ever every year. L4D1 and 2, Mass Effect, Alan Wake, Fable series, Gears 1 etc it was just over time many of their ace titles would end up else where anyway, just like its happening this gen with other titles they are publishing and creating. So why should I get a XONE for ReCore, Sea Of Thieves, KI along with others when they are coming to PC, something I own? I'm sorry but just like last gen, playing a wait and see will clearly play to my advantage and the PC, Nintendo handheld, PS console combo reigns supreme lol Mind you, Turn 10 was listed at one of their events to be making a PC title using DX12.... They've publicly stated they have MORE PC TITLES TO ANNOUNCE. Sooooooo buy a XONE for Scalebound, as of right now the only XONE title that I want that isn't coming to PC? Sounds more so like I need to play a wait and see as that game is likely delayed to work on a PC version, thus.....we are waiting as its becoming clear....once again I don't need a XB this gen. The gen before last, got Halo 1 and 2, Fable 1, KOTOR 1 and 2, Half Life 2 on PC...... Didn't get a XB, but had great reason not to after a few months, same happened with 360, and now XONE it seems like every month is giving me great reason to not buy it. Scalebound comes to PC, confirmed I'm likely never getting a XONE, but who knows. Good for MS though, they are getting my money regardless and this is a GREAT move for them, I hope they announce more and keep it up, this could be the start of a new era for them, I see no reason to leave money on the table.
I really enjoy PC gaming and I'd love for more people to have the opportunity to experience what it offers, but it's sad the way so many people just use PC gaming as a convenient way to try to attack the Xbox One. So many of the people bashing the Xbox One over this are the same people you see in PC articles trying to downplay the PC. And when the PC comes into the conversation these people complain and say the PC is a completely different market and shouldn't be compared to consoles. So which is it? If the PC is a different market and can't be compared against consoles then it makes sense to talk about "console exclusives". It's not going to hurt much if the Xbox One and PC share some games.
I have a PS4 for Sony's offering. I have a fancy PC ready for anything Microsoft is going to offer. This is actually exciting.
@mcstorm "pc user = to Pc gamers" Sorry to break your marbles. "lot of people don't have a very powerful pc to game on" but do you just assume that? Cause I'm pretty sure a 5 years old pc can run 90% xbox game, may not on high setting but likely a similar performance to the x1. This is just another reason owning an X1 pretty pointless and might as well use that money and get Gtx 980/ r9 290 lol
For those claiming PS4/PC is a better combination than an Xbox One/PC, what synergy is there between PC and PS4? Sony already abandoned PC development when they sold off SOE. PS4 gamers and PC gamers have very little in common when you look at available games. While it can be argued that you would get a broader spectrum of games with this combination, universal apps/games shared between PC and Xbox might be more attractive then a broader library of games you might not be interested in. I am sure some might find the PS4/PC combo better, but it's pretty much like saying PS4/Nintendo DS is a better combo than PS4/Vita for the same reasons.
ZINDAGI SAD HAI REYYYY!
@Pyro123#1.2 Zindagi happy hey PS4 ke saath.
Zindagi in paagulon kay saath nahee hay Shine get!! Buy all platforms
I want to start PC gaming . But I don't want to build one. Can someone send me a link to a good gaming pc under $1,000?
go to the Build a PC sub reddit or Toms hardware and ask, a lot of helpful people their can help you get the best bang for your buck.
http://www.amazon.com/Cyber... Considering you dont want to build your own this could be a good start, now pair that with a nice $250 monitor and you have yourself a nice startup gaming PC you can build upon down the road (e.g more ram, better GPU)
Would be immensely stupid not to build one. Do you have too much money?! It isn't any more difficult than building Lego these days!
The GPU is where you will spend money. It really depends on how high you want your graphic fidelity to be. If you want to play on a 4k monitor with a respectable frame rate you will spend the bulk of your budget on the GPU alone. If you simply want to be able to play at 1080p with an average frame rate between 30-60fps you can accomplish this with a budget PC with a midrange GPU. My advice would be to make a list of games you want to play and target your PC based on the requirements needed.
Build it ur self, i did my first build at 16 from youtube vids. Its really not hard at all and ull save money(unless there's like a really good sale).
@kraenk12 "Would be immensely stupid not to build one. Do you have too much money?! It isn't any more difficult than building Lego these days!" with that logic the service industry would not be able to survive. it's not difficult to cook eggs and bacon either but people will pay someone to cook it. the thing is not everyone is comfortable doing it and you can pay places to build it for you and it's not that expensive. some only $50 extra but i can build my own.
I think many still don't understand how easy building a PC has become...It wasn't always that way (parts compatibility used to be a nightmare)... but with main boards, PS's, and tower standards finally being logical...it truly is ridiculous to buy a pre-built OEM PC...you will ALWAYS waste money doing that...no way around it. honestly, just watch a few videos and read a few forum posts...then cross check the handful of things you need price wise vs. a pre-built with even lesser specs...it'll probably change your mind about building immediately...I hadn't built a PC in over 15 years when i did in 2013...was sitting around while windows installed within 30 minutes of the packages arriving...not kidding... and moldybread: yes, true, we're aware of 'why' pre-built PC's exist...its simply a contradiction with PC gaming in which people complain about the price of a PC, but then also don't want to build themselves...More importantly, i'd say if a person is looking to get into gaming on PC, but doesn't want to build the PC, its probably a side of the hobby they should just avoid...the learning that happens when building and how all the parts more or less fit and work together is important for trouble shooting later on...and the biggest part: knowing exactly what software has been installed on the system, something that cannot be done very well on pre-builts with all their bloat.
The thing about wasting money is money is a relative concept. A lot of money to you or I might not be as much to others. To say someone is wasting money by buying a PC vs build only applies if they are capable and comfortable building their own. I bought my last PC and spent way more than I should have because I thought the lights around the case were cool. I also bought an extended warranty since my time has become more valuable than the amount I would save fixing/building my own. Like I said, money is relative. I believe you will always get more bang for your buck building, but that doesn't mean buying isn't a viable alternative.
Building yourself is cheaper and better.
@Kleptic, "yes, true, we're aware of 'why' pre-built PC's exist...its simply a contradiction with PC gaming in which people complain about the price of a PC, but then also don't want to build themselves...More importantly, i'd say if a person is looking to get into gaming on PC, but doesn't want to build the PC, its probably a side of the hobby they should just avoid...the learning that happens when building and how all the parts more or less fit and work together is important for trouble shooting later on...and the biggest part: knowing exactly what software has been installed on the system, something that cannot be done very well on pre-builts with all their bloat." agree 100%. it was why i wanted to build my own to wrap my head how things actually work. and yes pre-built comes with a lot of bloatware, same thing with buying android phones from companies like samsung and how they overlay android with their own junk. building your own pc lets you have that much more control and knowledge but it is also not for everyone. it isn't hard to damage parts with static electricity, get too involved with tinkering and overclock too far, forgetting about updating drivers, even making sure the system is clean and not filled with dust inside that can overheat it. basic to you maybe but not for everyone.
Don't sweat building one. It's not really that hard, particularly compared to back in the day. I learned everything I know about PC's 27 years ago when I was 13, and they were a pain to build, and I had to learn because things didn't work. My subsequent degrees were just because the people hiring for IT jobs seem to think it's important...pfft.
Lots of good pre=builds on TigerDirect or Newegg to get you started off and so you can get familiar. http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... I would get the GPU stated based on what you want to run, I only recommend the highest game specs due to most games this gen won't go that much higher in regards to required specs UNTIL the next gen ie PS5, XNEXT etc. So I might consider going a bit higher then 1k merely for longevity. Don't waste your time with any "future proof" BS as it makes no sense and generally doesn't work that way. Though you don't have to build yourself the first time, start to at least look up some videos when you get a new rig as its not as hard as it sounds. I build a new PC almost every gen around the middle or so, built my PC last gen around 2009, before that built my older PC around start of 2004, etc, I'm set to build my new rig around ending of this year, but I'm personally spending around 1.2k, you don't need to, I merely want some fancy things in it lol. 2004 build was like $1k 2009 build was like 800 or so 2016 build around $1.2k (Keep in mind, I added other HDDs, added some ram from 4GB to 12GBs and a 2 new fans at like 20 bucks or so) You don't need to if your build is up to your liking though, I just kept my PC a bit longer due to using my PS4 for the latest games and not really gaming on PC that much in terms of the high end. In terms of the disagrees....stop that guys, be positive, I was scared to build my first rig too lol, granted I was just a kid and had lots of help, it can be intimidating to new comers. Look at it like legos, legit, its not as hard or as complex as some make it see as we user the term "build" your more so assembling. http://www.newegg.com/Gamin... Good luck.
Playing to try and get pc to pay for online pay again is more like it. Like that failed games for windows. Thats why i dont trust windows 10 what if they tried to make us pay for it because its free.
They will. The moment the free offer is over and you switch major components or build a new PC you will have to pay.
Giving Windows 10 away for free makes the most sense thou, they can now cut support to the older windows OS. It is kinda hard for people to complain about that when they had the chance to get 10 for free(some will anyway of course)...
PC and Xbox have proven in the past to co-exist. Remember with the ORG Xbox gave all its top 1st party game to PC and 3 generations later we still have Xbox selling better and better. Im a PC gamer and i still buy Xbox because its convenient.
I'm a PC gamer and while I don't own an Xbox One I certainly understand why some people do. There's room in this industry for different tastes, usage scenarios and preferences.
"In the rear view mirror" Was that a Kaz reference? Because he feels the same way lol https://www.youtube.com/wat...
In the rear view mirror yeah I hardly doubt that. A handful of Xbox games goes to PC so all of sudden Xbox won't sale. I thought we been through this already and proved that notion wrong? X1 and WI10 still exclusive games since you can't get those games no where else. I guess we're gonna decide to ignore console exclusive. At the end of the day it doesn't matter X1 WIN10 both MS platforms MS is getting money and live usage either way. They won't lose sleep, all of Xbox fans won't sleep, fanboys, yeah they might toss and turn.
More than half of their exclusive lineup is PC. Here is Microsoft's published exclusive list: Gears of War 4(Xbox One) Quantum Break(Xbox One) Halo Wars 2(Xbox One & Windows 10) Crackdown 3(Xbox One) Fable LegendsOpen Beta (Xbox One & Windows 10) ReCore(Xbox One & Windows 10) Sea of Thieves(Xbox One & Windows 10) Gigantic(Xbox One & Windows 10) – 2016 Killer Instinct: Season 3(Xbox One & Windows 10 Gears of War: Ultimate Edition(Windows 10) Ori and the Blind Forest: Definitive Edition(Xbox One & Windows 10) I didn't realize that most of their greatest exclusive lineup is not exclusive. So you would buy and Xbox One if you PC was trash, or if you really wanted Gear of War, Quantum Break, and Crackdown 3.
@Eonjay its they're still exclusive. To either X1 or WIN10. Halo Wars 2 is an online RTS game and crossplay. Fable Legends has been confirmed a while now its on PC and is also online co op crossplay. Recore still yet to see gameplay if its co op single player. Yes its X1 and WIN10 exclusive. Killer Instinct also on WIN10 and is crossplay with X1. Gears Of War Ultimate a remaster so of course its being done on PC. More sells for MS. Ori is developed by moon studios published by MS so is going to put it on there additional platform WIN10 again to generate more $$$. These are exclusives, they will marketed as X1 exclusives first. WIN10 PC is a second choice which brings benefits to both X1 and PC. Again these games are X1 and WIN10 exclusives.
"its they're still exclusive. To either X1 or WIN10." And so the definition of "exclusive" gets twisted farther and farther from what it actually means. A PC and a console are completely different platforms. We already have a word for that: by definition, games on multiple platforms are "multiplats."
It's 9 games out of 12, that's more than a handful, it's almost all of them. You're right that Microsoft makes more money this way though, that's why they're doing it after all
As I've pointed out previously, counting PC as a Microsoft exclusive just doesn't makes sense, because Sony can also publish a game on both PS4 and PC, so does that now make that game a Microsoft exclusive because it is running on Windows 10, a Microsoft platform? If they publish that same game on a Mac, does it then become an Apple exclusive? That thinking is so flawed it isn't funny. Really no logic involved. Games released on PC/Mac/Linux should not count as any any sort of exclusive if they are also released on a console, as it is separate platform that Microsoft and Sony and ME and YOU can release games on. It ONLY Microsoft could publish games on a PC, then you might have a slight leg to stand on.
@AngelicIceDiamond "Eonjay its they're still exclusive. To either X1 or WIN10". Sorry bro, but if a game is available on any alternative platform ..it is NOT Exclusive. There's a reason why MS/Sony have started using the PR/Marketing friendly term "Console Exclusive"...because those games are/will be available on PC. Quiet frankly, that's a term I cannot get behind. I'm an old school gamer, and 'Exclusive' means 'Exclusive' in my reality. Just like it did back in the 8-16-32 & 64Bit Era /
I was saying a month or so ago on N4G that this would eventually happen, if Microsoft didn't see any improvements on the console side this generation. Even though Xbox One is doing better than all their previous consoles, it is not doing well enough for Microsoft and their shareholders. I still stand by my prediction that Microsoft will leave the console market after this generation, if their fortunes don't change and try to squeeze in on the PC market where Steam is King.
Yep, not much point in owning the living room now with TVs doing all the media functionality these days. It does look like MS are slowly transitioning themselves away from consoles because their goals in that realm no longer exist.
I have a PS4 and a gaming PC so I'm missing out on very very little. There's very little reason for me to get an xbone.
If both Platforms receive the same games it can only be a good thing for both MS, the game developers and us consumers, or? We as consumers can decide if we want to play the newest Killer Instinct, Forza or Fable either on a console or the PC, I would see that as ideal situation.
It is a win-win for everyone except for the Xbox hardware division. Microsoft Studios win on sales. Consumers win on choice. Xbox as a console loses identity and value as compared to PC.
That's exactly it. There is no question that it will be better for consumers. However, for Microsoft improving PC support also means, at the same time, losing value for Xbox one in the eyes of potential customers. There's nothing they can do about it, though, it just comes with playing in both fields.
The money is in the software long term. Look at the wii sold alot of consoles then the bottom fell out no more money nintendo They got screwed on the stock exchange a few years later. The royalty fees can keep a company afloat for years just ask Epic games.
Publishing their exclusives to PC may mean Microsoft Studios benefit on raw sales numbers, but that is over-simplifying the commercial implications. First of all, console gamers pay more than PC gamers. They pay more per game, and they potentially subscribe to the online service. So in that sense, people buying a PC version of a game instead of the XBox version would be a bad thing. Second, and probably more significant, every 3rd party game sale on the Xbox platform is money in Microsoft's pockets. Windows is an open platform, the likes of EA and Activision can peddle their wares to Windows gamers and Microsoft see none of the money. For these 2 reasons, console gamers are simply worth more per head than PC gamers, so from Microsoft's perspective it isn't quite so simple as "the audience is bigger". They have to balance those numbers and figure out the most profitable path. And you can bet your arse they are studying and analysing those numbers very closely. As I said above though, none of that is my concern as a consumer. I'd gladly see every Xbox game release on PC, and I wouldn't feel bad about being a less financially lucrative consumer :)