QuakeCon: Carmack Dishes Dirt on Sony and Microsoft

How Microsoft is scared of Blu-ray while Sony is forcing extra dev time.
By Philip Kollar, 08/01/2008

1UP is having a blast at QuakeCon (as you can see Shawn Elliott's first day tour video), but we also have to do some serious work. For example, sitting down with id mastermind John Carmack to discuss Doom 4, Rage, and a whole lot more. The full 16-minute video interview is above, but read on for some of the highlights.

While discussing the difference between developing games for the PlayStation 3 and the Xbox 360, Carmack admitted that he wants hardcore id fans to help influence Microsoft's business practices. He also confirmed something that was hinted at in yesterday's news that Rage will be squeezed onto two DVDs: Microsoft charges developers more to publish games on multiple discs for their system. Carmack speculates quite logically that this is probably due to Microsoft not wanting to look bad next to the significant storage capabilities of the PS3's Blu-ray disc technology.

[NO_PUDding]

Well ofcourse they do.

PS3 can sell more than 360 version now, and having it come second requires some sort of bonus. I am glad they ahve that attitude and it's hardly crackign a slave whip. It's mandatory if the publisher wants to recoup costs on another platform.

[Viktor E]

Hence the reason why Nomura,future CEO of Square Enix,has refused to do coding for the Dying and Outdated Platform.

[Veryangryxbot]

Carmack just owned you silly fools big time.

He even said that PS3 version will look and run better. Now what? Almost every multi platform title (your last stance as exclusives already looks MILES better and in some cases even IMPOSSIBLE on the 360) that comes out now, looks the same or is better on the PS3. What are your excuses now, xbots?

Yea he said that he thinks 360 is better because ITS EASIER to develop for. But of course thats merely from a developer point of view and in terms of easiness. But the better hardware is without any doubt the PS3. Was, is and always will be.

[sinncross]

the ms problem is worse imho

[thenickel]

For a really big game maybe but for single disc games the 360 will always have a graphical advantage. It's ashame 360 has limited space because it's potential will never be realized just like the PS3's potential locked away in the cell. This Generation has to many restrictions on both consoles so I wouldn't say one is worst then the other.

Edit below: 1st off all the games you mentioned looking better are nothing more then a matter of opinion. Now Carmacks believes the 360 is superior and in this one case due to storage capacity the PS3 version might look better which is ashame. I'm not assuming anything and based off what Carmack says I can see it's obvious that the 360 is more graphically capable then the PS3 which gives it an advantage. Also I'm not saying single disc games are better but even with bigger games this doesn't mean the PS3 will always look better. Yes space is an advantage and No it's nothing to brag about so get over it.

[Isaac]

"for single disc games the 360 will always have a graphical advantage."

Yes, like most of the reviews said about Burnout, Devil May Cry 4, Call of Duty 4, Oblivion, DMC4, Bioshock, and GTAIV. Oh wait.

Besides, you assume that single disc games' quality and weight is as high ad multiple DVD amount of content, which is not the case. The games that matter, so who cares if single disc games are better (which is not the case anyway) if the good games are the big games with AAA budget? Nobody, really. Especially now that games are getting bigger, that PS3 install base is already big enough, and that it is outselling 360.

[felidae]

@thenickel

there is still no game on the 360 that matches the graphical quality and atmosphere of Motorstorm, Lair, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, MGS4 or GT5:Prologue.

so what do you mean?

lolol

[NO_PUDding]

Agreed, and not only that, but making bonus content mandatory is hardly cracking the whip.

Microsoft don't really give half as much creative freedom to their first party as Sony, and well Sony don't care about 3rd party as much, they care about 1st party.

The fact is Blu-Ray or lack of is only gonna get more painful for the 360, as is the rule of no required install.

EDIT: @Idontcare Atmosphere is a subjective matter. Graphics are much less subjective. Jut don't say atmosphere, because atmopshere relates far more to the art direction.

@thenickel, I wuld totally agree that neitehr woudl realise their potential were it not for the 360 being based on just plain power and the PS3 based on metaphorically teamwork of the processors. The fact is, it's very easy to force a lot out of the 360 and as such many of the tehcniques to push the platform have already been applied. The PS3 however is overall more powerful (accoridng to McCormack) and it is far more challenging to tap into that power, but also means that the PS3 will get increasingly better games, creating a competetive market.

And Sony has a huge first party to squeeze the PS3 dry, so I really think that you point could be right, but it won't be even if Sony didn't have a 1st party.

[mistertwoturbo]

Carmack says "The PS3 has more peek power" but he prefers working on the 360 because of the dev tools and support from MS is a lot better.

He also says that only a company that wants to push power out of the CELL will have to bleed to get it out.

http://www.xbox365.com/news...

And it's funny, that company is Guerilla Games with Killzone 2.

[Bolts]

And that company is a first party dev with development money funded by Sony. I guess Carmack proved his point. If you're a multiplat developer with games releasing on the PC, 360, and PS3 there is no way you can afford the massive investment in both time and money required to fully take advantage of the PS3.

[robep3]

The statement here

"He also makes a big deal of the fact that while Rage will almost certainly look and run better on the PlayStation 3"

The most important part is LOOK AND RUN BETTER. Now JC said he believed the 360 to be better hardware wise so although it may not look as good due to dvd storage SURELY he could make it run better IF and its a big IF the 360 hardware is better.

So he kind of shots himself in the FOOT!!

Cell has more raw power than the Xeon 360 cpu almost 90 gflops
PS3 Cell - 204.8 GFLOPS
Xbox CPU - 115.2 GFLOPS
RSX may be a little lower than Xenos but not by much.
The the Cell+RSX combined > Xenon+Xenos combined.

Rob

[Viktor E]

Daaaaaaaamn,that's a low blow for every hard working American,European,and Japanese Developer out there.

[Viktor E]

Obviously,Blu Ray is superior.

[Viktor E]

Fully agree with this ^,after the HD DVD fiasco wherein Billions of Dollars in Research,Marketing,and Licensing were lost,it is clear as day that Microsoft tremble at the mention of Blu Ray.

[power of Green]

Funny how the mighty PS3 "CELL" and junk was seen as the mighty beast, now that it's out that PS3's hardware is inferior, the Storage is the savior now.(which can change if MSFT changes their minds, when it comes to Rage).

Are you Queefy B or Nasim or both?.

I'd be more worried about having a console that is not as powerful as the other.

[gamesR4fun]

kinda grasping at straws arnt you POG
I mean no matter what anyone says the proof for the real gamers is in the games and the ps3 wins hands down. Show me anything that looks close to msg4 or Uncharted on the 360 and i'll run out and buy it today.

[gamesR4fun]

I mean same power no way I got both ps3 games own in every sense imo
Uncharted Msg4 HS WH just to name a few blow away anything on the 360
Wonder if hes ever played any of them lol

Still good interview nice to see a solid 3rd party dev stepping up and saying it like it is. Personally Im glad Sony makes em add content wouldnt b buying bioshock without it. And the 360 is almost universally regarded as being easier to develop for cause its basicly a pc but ms really has to back off on those per disk royalties if they want to compete with b/r.

[aaquib5]

He's just mad his own games will never look like them.

[jamilion]

nicely said
Just like cliffy B

[kittoo]

Dont doubt his programming capabilities. He is one of the best, if not the best, programmers out there.
Not saying that his lashing at PS3 is correct. No way, you have to make way for change, parallel processing is the way to go.
But I disagree with your comment that his games wont look like these. uncharted and MGS4 look mighty fine and better than anything on 360, true. But this guys knows in and out of programming. He is a genius, but his ways are towards simpler things. Like he explained in an interview, that for megatexures, he went back and saw that there were problems in basic rendering. It can be done in a much simpler way, and thats what he did. He likes to keep it simple.
Its great and all, but what I would truly like to see him do is do mix your simpler and better technologies with PS3 (means develop for it) and see what you reach. If he does that, it will be one hell of a game.

[thenickel]

Well since Uncharted and MGS4 are both on the PS3 we will never know if they would have looked better on 360. I still believe Gears 1 looks better then Uncharted but I guess thats my opinion right.

[Montrealien]

Opinion is irrelevant here on N4G theNickel, only facts from the person that disagrees with you matter. Your opinion will always be wrong if they don't like it, ahh, the wonders of being an anonymous person with a point to prove on the internet. lol

[dcbronco]

You're wrong about Carmack wanting things simple. The reason people haven't really used his game engine on the level of a Unreal is because he didn't make tool kits to simplify things. He said in an interview that if people wanted to use the engine fine, but it worked for him. He was more interested in making his games, not selling the Doom engine. The guy taught himself how to build rockets. The company he heads was the only company given funds by NASA to continue developing a lunar lander. Armadillo was the only company to come close to flying a lander to the extent NASA wanted. Someone that likes thing simple doesn't do things like that. He's just saying while Sony built a nice airplane, a helicopter is what's needed for the job. The plane may be faster, but the helicopter can get to all the same places much more easily.

[Bangladesh]

You are obviously a troll. There are no games on ps3 that "blow the 360 out of the water". Not a single one. I own MGS4 and Uncharted, both are good looking games, but they could easily be done on 360. Go play Gears of War, Splinter Cell: Double Agent(360 version pwns the ps3 version), Mass Effect, Kameo, etc, etc.. You people that only have a ps3, really need to stfu about ps3 games supposedly "blowing away" the 360's library, because in the real world they simply don't.

[mistertwoturbo]

I don't know, but the only true graphical hardware pusher games on the 360 seems to be Gears of War. Gears of War 2 is doing it again.

But who will every truely know if some PS3 games can be done on the 360 or not.

[mistertwoturbo]

"The plane may be faster, but the helicopter can get to all the same places much more easily. "

Good analogy.

But consumers don't want a helicopter knowing they can eventually get a plane.

[dcbronco]

The Russians always believed in raw power in their fighters. But whenever Migs and Eagles fought in real battles, the Eagles won easy. It's also why most women never get sexually fulfilled. It's just better to have the ability to move around.