Why Backing Shenmue 3 Makes You a Mug

ReadersGambit takes a look at the bigger picture surrounding Shenmue 3 and why we should all feel a little bad about funding it.

[Nyxus]

Again, this is based on false assumptions. Check this for more info: http://crashlanded.co.uk/Sh...

Or the video below.

[pwnsause_returns]

the kickstarter slowed down thanks to all the negativity -_- i swear man...if we dont get what we want......

[Griever]

If the kickstarter fails or the game does not materializes because of all this propaganda then there will be hell to pay. People like the author of this article should be held responsible and made to pay for it! These idiots will kill the game that we have been begging for 14 years!

[Serg]

There is a small portion of the gaming community, who have experienced the story of Shenmue and Shenmue 2. But a part of it was still missing, the story was incomplete for almost 15 years. No glimmer of hope as SEGA remained silent on this issue. The occasional rumour popped up during that time, only to remind every member of this community, of the harsh reality that this story may very well be left untold forever.

Last week, the wait for news has ended, it was finally announced, the story will finally be told. The people have a chance at making this into the game they have dreamed of for 14 years. But no, people who hate joy and happiness once again have to interfere. They spread false information in the hopes of destroying this long awaited joy. And it seems they are succeeding.

14 years with no hint at a third release. Not a peep from the people with a deathgrip on the franchise. Now a glimmer of hope and it gets tainted by negativity, fanboyism and jealousy.

I really hate this world we live in.

[cogniveritas]

Correlation does not imply causation. The Kickstarter funding was incredibly successful and is at 175% right now. It had to slow down at some point.

The criticism is illogical. Whether you help fund the game up front, or help recoup costs by purchasing the game after the fact, you're still giving up your money for a product without receiving equity in return.

[pwnsause_returns]

yea, but by the time the media started spreading misinformation, it slowed down the kickstarter, and it shows.

[Death]

Did negativity slow down kickstarter or did interest slow it down?

The original sold 1.2 million copies with the follow up selling 400,000 units. This is why Sony wanted to gauge demand. Historical sales figures don't support the amount of vocal demand fans make for Shenmue 3. Over 44,000 people have already backed the new game. That's over 10% of the people that bought the last game. I don't think negative publicity is at fault for it slowing down.

[Farmassy]

I played the original games when they first came out and I am not so sure I want a new shenmue. The originals were amazing and have heavily influenced games today. However, I don't think there is any way that the new shenmue will be able to innovate in the current gaming world. Those games were the first to do so many things but they hold a place in our hearts because at that time we had never seen an open world, QTEs, or in depth NPCs before. These things are now commonplace (and in the case of QTEs, no longer really wanted). I would rather remember those games the way they were instead of watching a beloved franchise make an unimpressive sequel

This is just my opinion and I hope the game comes out great. I will probably play it even if reviews are poor

[yarbie1000]

The people claiming Sony is only marketing the game is also full of misinformation. NO ONE KNOWS how much Sony is giving. There have been multiple interviews where Sony did say if the Kickstarter succeeds then SCE will back it with funding.

What is troubling is that Sony is already working on a list of more games to use crowdfunding for

@Brotard: http://gyazo.com/2b4c99154a...

[Asuka]

but why is that troubling? if content creators hold their IPs via kickstarter why is it troubling for a third party to invest in said IP?

[DivoJones]

To Asuka: Kickstarter is a place to invest in the little guy with a big idea and no resources to make it happen. Capcom and Sony are not little guys. These are major companies/publishers with catalogs full of successful brands and IP's. They don't need YOUR money to make a product, they're just offsetting their costs by sticking you with some of the bill.

Quality products will always sell well, so the fact they resorted to crowdfunding raises a big red flag in my book.

[Asuka]

@DivoJones You're right, but you are not investing in Sony or any publisher. You are investing in an individual or the IP holder (in this case Yu).

[Kayant]

@DivoJones

1. It's not Sony's project. The project is Ys.net if it's not kickstarted the project will not be made Sony's involvement is mainly enabling the creation of the PS4 version.

2. An IP that has been dead for 14 years should tell you it's wasn't really successful in terms of profit for Sega. There is a reason it's been dead for that long.

3."Capcom and Sony are not little guys. These are major companies/publishers with catalogs full of successful brands and IP's" - Which is why they fund the projects they own. There is a reason Horizon, etc are not on kickstarter because the likelyhood of getting the money needed to fund the project is very slim especially when you add huge marketing budgets AAA games have today.

4. "They don't need YOUR money to make a product, they're just offsetting their costs by sticking you with some of the bill. " - They are not offsetting anything because it's not their project/IP. Given the scope of the project Sony will only fund a project if they own the I.P.

[Brotard]

And where did you get this Info on Sony kick starting other projects?

[Spotie]

@yarbie: So you've made up an interpretation that suits your argument? Pathetic.

@Divo: Where do you get the idea that this is a Sony project? That you think that is exactly the sort of crap that's gonna hurt this game's chances. And that's exactly what articles like this, and people like yarbie, hope for.

[OB1Biker]

Sony is helping like they usually do for most indie games. And often it involves funding developing and marketing.
But these games have to be on their own way first

[DemonChicken]

$29 for a dollar game is pretty damn awesome considering the digital prices are criminal in Europe.

Pretty clever if you ask me. The author must have had a fail in Maths or is mug =D

[jb227]

These gaming "journalists" are short sighted, narrow minded buffoons these days. How about a little perspective? If this game happened thru traditional channels, gamers would have to pay 60+ for retail or digital! with this method! gamers can receive a digital copy for half of that price....fiscal sense? Check. Creatively speaking, Yu Suzuki can finally move forward with a passion project w/ the faith of hundreds of thousands of gamers fully & tangibly behind him, and have the freedom to make the game he has envisioned...creative sense? Check. Not sure what else really matters.

People are completely missing the positive points of this, glossing over them in favor of knee jerk reactions that support all of the shady preorder, high prices, microtransations & pricy dlc practices that are killing the industry. Kick starter deals like these can essentially only hurt the brick & mortar retail stores that are keeping the medium in the Stone Age. I honestly haven't seen one valid negative point in any of these arguments.

[PaleMoonDeath]

Oh bugger off.

[Kayant]

The misinformation and so called journalism *cough* I mean clickbait BS doesn't seem to be stopping.

[Hoffmann]

It does not often happen that I give a website here a vote. But this one just deserved a negative one for this article.

[Asuka]

idk why these keep getting approved. This is like the 3rd article today trying to miss inform people

[Mr-Dude]

People who like to ruin things for other people

[stavrami]

Quick someone call the fun police we have someone trying to use propaganda to kill gamers joy :-/ hahahaha

[Kal-V3]

Again?! jeez, do people like videogames anymore?

[starchild]

It's all about fanboyism now. People used Shenmue 3 in their fanboy war and now other people are using it as ammo in another war. I hope it doesn't become a casualty of war.

We should all keep in mind that whatever hate we direct at other people (or things they love) will eventually come back to be directed at us and things we love.

[Kal-V3]

Ignorance is clicks..

[_-EDMIX-_]

lolz, who the hell is approving this junk?

Yu is the one who wanted it kickstarted.

Sony doesn't own the IP

Sony isn't getting money from the Kickstarter.

The whole article is pointless as the author doesn't even know the basic information regarding the topic they are writing on.

[elazz]

I still don't get why a lot of people are complaining. Big companies are also allowed to kickstart projects.

[MegaRay]

Who's approving this? Xbox fanboys, and people who hate Sony in general.

[fei-hung]

Seriously, I don't know why people have an issue with this. Is it:

A) they hate Sony so they must hate on this
B) they hate Shenmue
C) to use as click bait
D) a combination or all the above

People have been asking for this for almost a decade of not more and more that people who want it have an option to make it happen, idiots are crawling out from everywhere with their opinions based on assumptions, ignoring the facts just to piss on the community who have voiced their want for over a decade.

[blib]

The Shenmue fans have been asking for a kickstarter for a few years. We got what we wanted. Ignore all this BS, and support Yu Suzuki. Remember the 4 wude.

[Activemessiah]

who u calling a mug, you minger.

[ShutUpDonny]

I love being call an idiot by a "journalist". In my opinion, I just made a super early 50% off price pre-order of a game I dreamed about for more than a decade. I won all the way.

[NerdStalker]

Shenmue 3 is coming, the only mug is the author of the article, greatness is coming.

[MasterCornholio]

The author is heartless person.

:I

[yewles1]

Amazing how this article gets ignored...

http://n4g.com/news/1746591...

[Esler]

Thanks to all the people actually posting information against the article. It is genuinely an interesting subject to debate and read up on. I can't reply to each of you individually but thank you for taking the time to read the article, regardless of your opinion of me or what was said.

The reality is that nobody is providing misinformation as it stands. Sony has been awfully clandestine in regards to exactly how much is being provided to YS or what was part of the agreement. According to interviews and sources Sony has had several meetings spanning years to discuss this which actually suggests serious involvement.

Shenmue has cost upwards of $46mil to develop previously and it is rather naive to assume that your measly $2mil would begin to cover a development of this grand proportion in this day and age. Although we can dream, right?

The major issue is transparency when it comes to this deal. Where were all these other investors to the game? When did they sign up? How much is each investor offering? The list goes on. All we know so far is that Sony have been discussing production of the game for a prolonged period of time and that they are also helping out more than just the soapbox they provided at E3. That's a shaky peg to start with outside of any speculation.

I'm a fan of the series, although I was too young to fully appreciate the first game and have a few fond memories of the second game. I would have backed if it hadn't been for Sony as it does seem a little dubious. For the backers sake hope you all get your beloved Shenmue 3 but at the same time I hope it doesn't come at the cost of Kickstarter and its uses as well as the wider implications of what publishers could use KS for.

[MasterCornholio]

"The major issue is transparency when it comes to this deal. Where were all these other investors to the game? When did they sign up? How much is each investor offering? The list goes on. All we know so far is that Sony have been discussing production of the game for a prolonged period of time and that they are also helping out more than just the soapbox they provided at E3. That's a shaky peg to start with outside of any speculation."

When do publishers ever release detailed information of deals to the public?

I'm surprised that you didnt ask CD about their deal with Microsoft regarding Tomb Raider.

[Esler]

Well this is the first time a publisher has ever publicised and helped out a KS before it was funded and actively had console exclusivity. If MS had asked for $2mil up front for Tomb Raider I would have had the exact same response.

It also seems the vast majority of people believe I am under the impression that Sony get the KS money. Which is a bit off. I believe Sony stands to benefit from a game they are actively helping but bypasses the risk of fronting as much money be encouraging crowd sourcing.

[yewles1]

"If MS had asked for $2mil up front for Tomb Raider I would have had the exact same response."

But they didn't, because THIS happened instead...

http://www.gamespot.com/art...

"Don't expect a new Shenmue from Microsoft anytime soon, however. Spencer said on Twitter in February that it's not going to happen. "I know there is lots of Shenmue love out there, but it's a Sega game. We can't build it," he said at the time."

[Kayant]

"Well this is the first time a publisher has ever publicised and helped out a KS before it was funded and actively had console exclusivity."

"The reality is that nobody is providing misinformation as it stands. Sony has been awfully clandestine in regards to exactly how much is being provided to YS or what was part of the agreement. According to interviews and sources Sony has had several meetings spanning years to discuss this which actually suggests serious involvement. " - Really showing that quality journalism...

Save the BS. You continue to post misinfromation time and time again.

1. This is not a console exclusive. It was never announced as such. The pS4 version is happening because of Sony's invlovement - https://twitter.com/CedricB...

2. No this is not the first time a publisher or outside investor has been part of a kickstarter without the backers knowing their own involvement or outside funding being part of the project. https://twitter.com/persona... There are other examples. I have explained why this is not a console exclusive. They have console exclusivity atm because they are the only manufacturer backing the project. The game would have been PC only if they weren't there.
Shibuya Productions are also involved in the project - https://translate.google.co...

3. "I believe Sony stands to benefit from a game they are actively helping but bypasses the risk of fronting as much money be encouraging crowd sourcing." - Stop trying to make this into a Sony project. It isn't and hasn't seen it was announced.

4. There are things called NDA's. Please tell me how many industries where you have the investors actively listing their involvement and support in a project. They are not obligate to give the info if they want to and Ys.net has already explained they can't do so.

[Esler]

@Kayant the Bloodstained scenario is completely transparent in regards to the campaign shows how much support he has received and at least touches upon Deep Silvrr funding a part of the project. Shenmue 3 has no such information. Your right, they are a publisher and they are backing the project, that's the main issue.

Sony have pockets deeper than any publisher around just now and could find this easily. I've never said it is Sony's project, it doesn't mean this partnership isn't beneficial to them or there platform.

In regards to 4, the vast majority of these industries are not asking the consumer for money up front without declaring their funding. That's the main issues. Obviously some companies do have NDAs and we purchase the products. This is a different scenario as we are backing a project as investors, albeit it very limited investors with less scope than a majority shareholder but $3mil is still a large investment from a community, with $10 being an "ideal" from YS. That's a lot of money to ask for when you have limited understanding of what you are funding and who stands to benefit in a corporate sense.

[Neo_Zeed]

You aren't a fan. If you were a fan then you would back the series instead of trying to harm it's chance of getting the most funding. You should be ashamed of yourself and ashamed of this clickbait.

[sypher]

You have to remember, the original Shenmue games had a lot of product placement - to make that world feel more believable.

We don't know who these unnamed backers are, but it wouldn't surprise me at all, if Yu over the years had just made various deals - that he can't touch upon until the thing is actually created.

[Neo_Zeed]

If you were a good person you'd be apologizing for this article. Yet here you are trying to defend your clickbait garbage. The only happy thought here is you'll get your karma for this.

[Esler]

I understand your hurt that I didn't see your point of view dude. Suck it up and stop crying. Of course I am going to defend my opinion, it is just that. You are perfectly entitled to yours but it is rather childish to berate people because you don't agree.

Although Kauant is pretty poor at putting his point across he is actively providing sources, regardless of their credibility or how tangible they are he is still actively educating or providing reasoned arguments beyond demand retribution.

[plmkoh]

"this is the first time a publisher has ever publicised and helped out a KS before it was funded"

Oh so this is the basis for an entire shitty article. Have a look at Mighty No.9 and Bloodstained, two big KS games and guess who's funding and publishing those two games: Deep Silver

Go eat crow.

[Spotie]

How much will Shenmue III cost? If you were a fan, you should know that, right? Is it 46 million?

You're not a fan. You're just one more in a line of people who are too busy baiting clicks and drumming up controversy to pay attention to the facts right in your damn face. You claim you want it to succeed, but if it fails, it will be due to bullshit like this very article.

[rainslacker]

If you're going to write an opinion piece, you should at least look up the facts about what's going on. The facts have been clearly stated by both the dev and Sony all the way up to Andrew House himself. The entire debate you're trying to say is a debate isn't a debate. It's misinformation, and people correcting that misinformation. Neogaf itself has a pretty enxtensive thread on the explaining the details of what happened, and it's not that complicated to understand in the first place. It sounds like your problem with this game is your inability to read and understand, and not lack of transparency.

The level of transparency given to the funding of this project is MUCH MORE than we ever would have had for any other game. THE REALITY IS that there is a huge number of people, and even what is considered respectable news outlets spreading misinformation and blatent lies, and then other people such as yourself who want to insult people who either don't care because it means they get what they want, or they actually took the time to understand the details and realize that the narrative is nothing like what is being portrayed.

If you want serious debate, go look up the facts. Don't rely on random forum posts of others who don't understand what happened, and articles that were generated for nothing but hits.

Heck even your comments here, and your replies to others don't even have the facts straight. All your arguments are based on assumptions, hyperbole, and misrepresented narratives. Every last one of them. I don't even need to single them out. For every single one of your arguments, use google and click past more than one link.

You say your a fan of the series? Well then maybe find out if the hate your spewing is based in reality before you decide to engage in this hate campaign. That makes you seem more like someone who just wants to antagonize others, than someone who cares if the third game gets made.

So the best question to ask yourself is...what do you gain by writing this piece? I think if you truly did it with the desire to be informed, you'd be pretty embarressed that you reacted on impulse instead of taking the time to look into it. If you wrote it for attention, then well, you'll make a great gaming journalist one day. Maybe Polygon or Kotaku will give you a call one day. If you care so much about transparency, then go write about gamergate, it's a much better hit generator. Funny how transparency doesn't matter to many sites unless they feel slighted.

[Esler]

Obviously you would like to believe I didn't look up everything before I wrote the article. But the matter of fact is that I did. I'm not just acting on Andrew Newton's tweet, but from statements and interviews provided by Gio Corsi stating they are partnering and funding Shenmue 3.

This all came after the initial announcement and way after the campaign was already funded with more information trickling out. Many people have copied and pasted the same tweet, but really if that's your argument more fool you. It's 140 characters and is not the sum of the deal between two parties.

NeoGaf isn't a reputable source and even more misinformation get churned around in there than anywhere else. I did read a fair bit of a few threads. As it stands Sony representatives are saying they are funding it, after the game was funded. That's still not cool.

As for the hate? I've never expressed any hate for Shenmue or its development. That's you making misinformed assumptions, when probably not reading the article properly, while suggesting I learn to read and pay attention. I think that's almost the best instance of irony I have seen in years. I genuinely hope the game gets released and will pick up a PS4 copy once don't have helped make it.

If you read my article properly, you would notice it's about the potential in this type of scenario to allow PUBLISHERS to promote a game without declaring involvement until after the project had reached its goal. It gives them a new and rather conceited avenue to your wallet. That's not good for the consumer. Yes you get what you want but it means publishers could rely on crowd funding for titles which people are unsure of. For instance I would never have backed a platinum game years ago, but when I played their titles I loved them. If asked to pay any some of money based on their premise 2.5 years ahead of release I would have laughed.

Until it's all painted in black and white these articles will still crop up. In fact if it weren't for people calling this level of nonsense out you might not have those little facts you're clinging to as tool to try and berate me. I've not made any sleights against you and I would appreciate the same from you if you really wanted to discuss the subject. Instead you choose to insult me and therefore dropped under the category of "another angry fan that doesn't agree and wants to shout about it with no evidence".

[rainslacker]

Uh huh.

OK, so you will take some statements an extend them to the worst possible scenario to go on to insult supporters of the project but at the same time ignore other relevant information.....why?

"This all came after the initial announcement and way after the campaign was already funded"

Way after? Christ, as I'm writing this the announcement came just over a week ago. The game was funded in less than 12 hours. The information about the details started coming out the very next day after the announcement. What exactly do you expect from these companies? Should they have a liason 24/7 to handle concerns for a KS?

What's the more responsible thing here?

1. Ask a question, wait for a response, write an article on said response with the actual facts

2. Ask a question, write an article, don't bother with a response, not bother with any kind of retraction.

That's basically what the press is doing with this issue.

No, Neogaf isn't a reputable source. HOWEVER, the threads that are discussing this are posting actual full quotes from executives, investors, and the devs themselves which address questions and concerns that people have. Every last concern in fact. No, they don't give out exact details on funding, but how many companies do that, and why suddenly do we need them?

Then the gaf community puts those quotes into context, and connects the dots between all the statements, which ironically used to be the job of the journalist, all because these other journalist and bloggers don't care to bother with them.

OK, you don't express hate for Shenmue, but you certainly seem to have quite a bit of disdain for those who support Shenmue. Forgive me if that doesn't make you seem a bit biased.

Who cares if this becomes the new way to make games? Why is that a problem? If it means the community has more of a say in what games get made, I'm all for it. It doesn't have to be the only model of funding, but it's not like this kind of thing is new. EVERY INVESTOR will do what they can to gauge interest in a title, and that can take many forms from focus groups to KS. Gut feelings on $50-100 million projects do not happen. I've worked on $50-70 million dollar projects and every last thing is scrutinized by the producer who is responsible for the investors money. Every last thing is done in the interest of making back that investment plus some, and hopefully making a profit on the game. But now, who's to say that's the case. Now, with this project, the people who supported it from the get-go, the people who showed the big investors that the game was viable, can have their input taken into consideration. How is that a bad thing? It baffles me people see crowd-funding with supporter input as a bad thing. If people want games to be made the way they want them to be made, what with all this lack of innovation and originality crap, then how else is that going to happen with the money men too concerned with their own returns.

This whole thing has been painted in black and white. It's been pointed out to you in the comments above, with sources cited for easy reference. Unfortunately for you and your page hits, the black and white isn't gray enough to generate any interest, so you continue on with this negative narrative that simply ignores or twists the facts and only degenerates there into hyperbole.

[TwoForce]

Click bait BS ! That's it !

[MasterofMagnetism]

More misinformation. Why do so many people want this kickstarter to fail?