CDPR’s Visual Artist on “Downgrade-ation”: “Very unfair to compare trailers and gameplay demos”

As CDPR’s artist told docm77, CDPR did not downgrade the game’s visuals. Moreover, CDPR’s artist claimed that it is unfair to compare a trailer and a gameplay demo.

[JoeMcCallister]

Don't care, game looks amazing in more than just visuals. If 2D grass is all you can cry about, things are going to be ok.

[thekhurg]

Agreed. The game looks amazing and I can't wait for Monday evening to start playing it. This is a generation of whiners. "Gamers" are going to literally complain about everything they can it seems.

[TheOpenWorlder]

Oh okay CD Projekt RED dev..I apparently missed it when I read the words GAMEPLAY DEBUT trailer...WITH THE WORD GAMEPLAY wrong....here I was thinking it was GAMEPLAY shown for the first time with bits of CG in it (from killing monsters) but I guess...I should have read that as DEBUT BULLSHIT LIES Trailer instead...

:) Sure....there hasn't been a downgrade...surrrreeee

[Kleptic]

^have to agree...

thekhurg: this isn't a 'generation of whiners'...its a generation of decade old hooks no longer holding up within the gaming community...

Remember killzone 2's announcement? That is PRECISELY why 'gampeplay trailer', 'in game footage', 'rendered in game', etc. dislcaimers exist...the backlash from that is why we have those things...and that wasn't anywhere close to the current generation, that was literally a decade ago...

yet...publishers, PR departments, and even devs...have found ways around their own disclaimers...utilizing in game assets, but pushing them through a rendering farm to make a game trailer...or localizing 'in game' content to manipulate the game into something its not (a focused 'version' of the game to make a video, then downgrading everything for release when its more open)...is what they're being called out on...

tolerate it, thats fine...but its BS...its just new BS...while little changes...

there is NOTHING 'unfair' about comparing what we're told is game footage...that isn't...period...was no different than Watchdogs...is no different with the Witcher 3...and will be no different with battlefront...all 3 games have been laced with PR BS...and its a trend that needs to end...the answer is stop showing games years before release, and stop relying on pre-orders as some sort of fiscal opportunistic metric...and just announce 3 to 6 months before release, with real footage...and let the game sell itself...like it used to be...

[fiveby9]

I am also looking forward to the game. I will let the game speak for itself after it is playable. It's already pre-loaded n my pc via gog. I don't really care that people complain but I guess I understand that there has not been a game in recent memory where I cannot find some contrived or legitimate controversy. It's just some people like to find the fault in everything. It's how they go through life.

[starchild]

@TheOpenWorlder

Those first few trailers were mostly cutscenes. They had just a handful of 1 or 2 second glimpses of gameplay.

The problem I see is people comparing uncut normal gameplay footage to epic cutscene footage. Because I think the new gameplay we've seen holds up pretty well to the few gameplay glimpses we saw before.

Obviously those few gameplay glimpses were carefully selected and probably even enhanced with post-processing, sharpening and downsampling, but even then I don't think they look too much different from what we got in the final game. People are blowing this WAAAY out of proportion.

http://i.imgur.com/jDrU4ds....
http://i.imgur.com/EDYGUNV....

http://i.imgur.com/vhI9fbJ....
http://i.imgur.com/OpAIUgN....

http://i.imgur.com/2r305d1....
http://i.imgur.com/ISiKaPI....

http://i.imgur.com/xPuwdJg....
http://i.imgur.com/yy6hs8n....

http://i.imgur.com/5nIF64E....
http://i.imgur.com/IOj3ASn....

http://i.imgur.com/Q1GyXYy....
http://i.imgur.com/noKtOPQ....

http://i.imgur.com/CBatld4....
http://i.imgur.com/x0rTpfn....

http://i.imgur.com/AT8yiyG....
http://i.imgur.com/a1oE6hv....

http://i.imgur.com/zBKOLR7....
http://i.imgur.com/U1FCgdk....

http://i.imgur.com/RpON1PD....
http://i.imgur.com/01KOesN....

Old version on top, new version on bottom.

All in all I have to say the newer version looks equally as good as the older version. Sure, you can find some places where the older one looks better, but then again there are also places where the newer one looks better.

Here are some gifs:
http://i.imgur.com/1wvOSR9....
http://i.imgur.com/wlaj3vW....
http://i.imgur.com/1hgotax....
http://i.imgur.com/9YwAbOF....
http://i.imgur.com/g6Go2nG....

[Link2DaFutcha]

The people whining are the ones that would have complained that the Super Mario Bros manual had hand drawn characters and in-game it was pixels. Game is/is going to be amazing. Can't wait.

[Enyxodin]

Wtf...

[Allsystemgamer]

I'm playing it right now on my ps4. It's absolutely fantastic. The patch is out too. Under 500mb so it took like 5 minutes to download. Improved the bugs significantly. There's a thank you letter in ye box too. Thank you CDPR. You really delivered and have my full support.

[Activemessiah]

Isn't the trailer meant to represent gameplay? o_O

Not counting CGI of course.

But yeah, there is a difference but it's being referred to as 'Optimisation': http://a.disquscdn.com/uplo...

[Greyfoxdbz]

The trailers are what got me interested, i loved how good it looked and how atmospheric it seemed. later trailers started to look less impressive but the end product still has a lot of what blew me away. looking forward to having the free time to play this.

[Saijahn]

Trailers show highlights of the game that's it. No different than a movie trailer.

Gameplay demos are vastly different than a trailer.

If people want those super high end graphics then they should get a 4k capable PC and leave console gaming behind.

[bomajed]

First of all, you can't compare the PC version with the console version, that's unfair.
The second thing I think the colors are better in the second shot actually, and I think it will look much better on PC (especially the details and the sharpness). I'm not saying that you should play on PC, everyone should play on whatever platform they like, but you can't blame the devs when they tune the graphics to get the game working on consoles.

[cartoonx1]

then why everyone complaint about ubisoft's watchdogs? why such bias? its funny if its cdred, they get free pass. there is indeed many graphical feature cut from final build and they not even addmiting it. also an year back they said they dont fear if ppl compare old builds with final build and now they think its not fair?

[OB1Biker]

@cartoonx1 the downgrade issue for watchdogs is mainly the PC version. Which also I think many got confused with console version though I never ever found the console version specially good looking as it's cross gen anyway

[HammadTheBeast]

@cartoonx1

Because aside from the underperforming graphics, it didn't really have a whole lot going for it.

[cartoonx1]

@Hammad - true, watchdog was advertised for its graphics mostly, but to some extent witcher was also heavly advertised for its graphics, they even said tht 2014 trailer will make it to final game but it doesn't seems likely the case. pretty sure ppl will enjoy regardless but they should have admitted it which they didnt

[starchild]

@cartoonx1

That Watch Dogs thing was blown out of proportion too. It was downgraded, but some people made it sound like it was a massive difference and it really wasn't. It was still a very nice looking game. The main problem was that they downgraded the PC version when they really didn't have to, since the removed features were still in the game files and ran decently well on good PCs. That's what settings in PC games are for.

The other problem is that it didn't really run too well on any platform and that certainly upset people and made them more negative towards the game. I have a fairly beefy PC and I was able to run it pretty well, but most people were not happy with the way it ran.

CDPR isn't getting a free pass, it's just that there really isn't any good evidence of an overall downgrade. Why am I going to get pissed about a downgrade that I don't see? The game looks astonishingly good and I honestly don't see any big difference between the new gameplay and earlier gameplay. For every screenshot comparison that shows the older version looking somewhat better, I can point to two that show the newer version looking better. It's swings and roundabouts, really.

[gz1987]

@bomajed WELL said well said.

[bomajed]

@cartoonx1 The Witcher is a PC game, it started that way, and that's the primary platform used to develop the game, it's not CDPR fault if the consoles can't handle the full graphical fidelity of the game!!

[cartoonx1]

no one comparing console vs original gameplay trailer. comparison is between 2015 pc ultra vs original gameplay trailer. if they cant make it look as good thn why they denying tht there is no downgrade? why advertise the original trailer thn? just search witcher 3 GOG on google. they still using old build's screens and trailers there. also watchdog was reveal way before console was announce so there was no know hardware at time.

[someOnecalled]

I think they point everyone is making is that the use a gameplay trailer the don't look like the final game. And all sides are saying this about the PC version. Even people that don't game on PC. Game look good now but when Dev lie and say its gameplay and release a version that's not up to par what you expect . we are tired of fake trailers and parity( they admitted to the parity too).

What so wrong with putting labels on type and platform for trailers .that the problem and gamers, casuals, and fanboys be saying this for the longest. And if its CGI or a target just say so we will still be interested if its good

[gz1987]

Lol at all the haters and dislikes. Stop trolling console fans be mad.

[sigfredod]

If at the begining of the footage they put In engine footage, instead of gameplay people will not be so upset, but since they say gameplay saying now that its unfair to call it downgrade , pleople have the right because that "gameplay" they showed didn´t exist then was a lie

[thekhurg]

Yes it does. It's the gameplay they're showing. Your statement is only correct if they show destructible environments or some type of gameplay mechanic that is cut from final release without any warning.

[EvilWay]

Yes but you shouldn't make the trailer look so good and then when gameplay is shown not be close to the graphics we saw before. It's False advertising. This game looks great and I can't wait to play it

[Psychotica]

Kind of like buying a burger from McDonald's and expecting it to look like the picture?

[Thunder_G0d_Bane]

Hahahhaah terrific example!!!!

[hasamalaha]

Sorry, but this guy is full of shit and this is exactly what gamers are upset about.

I understand there might be downgrades from some extremely early footage (such as Watch Dogs original footage vs release).

But when there is a downgrade from a release trailer, just months before the game is available. That is complete bullshit. That is false advertisement.

[Kal-V3]

Watch Dogs is FAR worse as they were actually playing the game with the super high quality graphics. You cannot compare!

[hasamalaha]

Watch Dogs initial trailer was years before release. No one even knew what the console specs were going to be. So, you absolutely cannot blame them.

Witcher 3 was releasing misleading trailers just months before product release.

[uth11]

This downgrade is far more obvious than Watch Dogs, it's a night and day difference

[Serenity25]

How is that? Watch Dogs looked much more downgraded than this, even though that wasn't a huge difference either. I think some gamers just love to be drama queens.

[methegreatone]

This argument doesn't work.

We're not comparing trailers and gameplay. We're comparing the 35 minute gameplay demo from 2014 to recent PC 'ultra' footage. Some things have been downgraded. I'm not just saying that because I vaguely like the way it looked before.
If you analyze it you can see that certain things are downgraded/ removed even.

Downgrade is as quite clear, and we have insider information that prettymuch confirmed it. I know it may be fake, but I already believe it because it confirmed removal of realtime reflections which I saw in the case of puddles. No more blood splatter on water either, which I also noticed. What it said made sense, and was correct from what I've seen.

[darksky]

They had the game running at those ultra high detail settings so that older version of the game must exist somewhere. Let's hope the release an 'enhanced' version like they did for the original Witcher.

[Roccetarius]

It's also unfair to lie to your customers, but companies do that all the time. Now we can just add another one to that list.

It's pretty much like a developer said long before the game was close to release, that what CDPR was showing off would not be in the release version, due to being developed on compromising platforms. It's funny how said person was bashed back then, but the truth is out there now.

Like methegreatone said, it's confirmed that some things are missing, or using a lesser version of what was shown off before they started downgrading.

[Enyxodin]

unfair? CDPR doesnt have the right to use that word. It is unfair to us that they lied and lied and still lying that it is not downgraded! So to them it isnt downgrading when you compare a trailer released before a finished game...if thats so why do you release that trailer to the market for false advertising when the game will not end up like that? If CDPR comes forward apologising for the downgrade then it is more okey but keep avoiding that situation and speaking out some random "blaha" is going to hurt them!

[Kal-V3]

Apologize? What!? Were your feelings hurt? Did they rip you off of money you didn't give them yet? Did they not give you something that they didn't really promise to begin with. A games final graphics are not final until they ARE final. Simple as that. The game still looks amazing but people still need to complain.

[Enyxodin]

No my feelings didnt get hurt, but it seems yours did from my comment...

If you read my comment again maybe you can figure out that I complained about them LYING about the downgrade!!!! Of course I am also disappointed that the graphics were so downgraded but some may be forgiven if they admit it.

The game has gone from the most good looking game of the year from being just regular...so of course people will be disappointed...but you are not and thats ok it just means you are a more easy seller than others

[Ninver]

It's not as amazing as the initial reveal that peaked gamers interest and got them excited enough to put their hard earned money on the game! Why can't you apologists get that through your thick skulls? lol

Only show the final product...we can wait!

[Kal-V3]

@Ninver
"Only show the final product...we can wait!"
Now, that i can agree with.

[LamerTamer]

@Ninver

They do this crap to coax preorders. They show some bullshots and a trailer from god knows what and people go mental and all OMFG LOOK AT DEM GRAFX!!!!! Then proceed to dump bucketloads of cash on preorders.

STOP PREORDERING!!! it only encourages this. preordering is retarded, it is not like they will run out and you will never find the game again.

[Taero]

One thing that a lot of people don't look for when they downgrade hunt is where's the corresponding upgrade. I don't think anyone can argue "Oh ho, they downgraded that because they want us to have a worse experience" If a downgrade does happen then it logically should be due to a reallocation of finite resources. Suddenly every grass blade doesn't have its own shadow and move independently and they move in sections or share shadows? +1 fps.

Everything is a tradeoff, if you wanted that grass back then you'd have to give up your +1fps (for example). Now that may be fine with you but in the end we all want different things, it's up to the dev to make the call.

Now all of this is assuming that we weren't sold an actual misleading product, like the devs came out and said "This is what our game is running at right now, in two years time this is exactly what you'll get, this isn't just a trailer or hype video here is in engine footage of our game running like that"

But very rarely if ever does anyone say that (Watchdogs came close I'd argue though). I don't believe the Witcher devs came anywhere close with their claims.

[Roccetarius]

Reallocation of resources and such is all fine, but outright removing features is something else entirely. The PC is perfectly capable of handling those features, but thanks to one build development the PC version is compromised.

[LamerTamer]

It depends on what you mean by "the PC". I would bet that the majority of PCs out there aren't uber rigs sporting 4 Titan Zs in SLI.

Still though they did do something very deceptive. They will still sell millions of this game though. Gamers are weak, as long as it doesn't look like a PS1 game they can't help it and will rush out to buy this no matter what. I won't, used for me. I just downgraded my buying intentions.

[Ninver]

Then don't release trailers that do not contain actual gameplay assets! Better yet why not follow Naughty Dog's practices and only show gameplay in your trailers?

It's all false advertisement and gamers have the right to feel decepted for expecting the same quality as your first initial reveal.

Now if that's too hard for then ONLY SHOW gameplay trailer once the game is at its final stages. Simple as that. Or get sued for false advertisement.

[Roccetarius]

Indeed, it seems like companies (specifically CDPR in this case) didn't think this one entirely through. People would probably still be dissapointed if they put a disclaimer in trailers, but at least they then have more than lies to hide behind.

[someOnecalled]

ND did the same thing. Most devs do and we are tired of it.

[Ninver]

Naughty Dog clearly stated "in-engine trailer" which means they were using assets from the engine which they are building the game on. It was CGI or any other nonesense.

[NuggetsOfGod]

most of the people who don't care are console gamers.

False adverts and paying full price ils like a fetish for them.

I'll get this at $40 I can wait 2 months

[The_Sage]

You know what would be the very best idea, and what I have always wanted?... Make the darned trailers out of nothing but gameplay. Not tweaked hyper computer gameplay, but actual gameplay. All problems solved.

[BassMan125]

Trailer = advertising.
Actual product different than the trailer = False advertising

As simple as that.

[JohnnyRico305]

What's sad is people complaining about visual downgrades. It's like people have lost touch with what they love about games the most. Playing them. If what they've shown earlier in development isn't what we're getting in the final product then so be it. As long as I get to play the game that I have been following for years then I'm satisfied. Now I understand some comprises must me made during development. You don't always get to keep everything you want. I've come to terms with that long ago. What I will not do is complain about a product that I can choose to buy with my money. If you don't like it don't buy it. That's what advertising is for. They advertised a product and generated interest. They may have show visuals that were a concept but they never guaranteed those visuals. All I'm saying is, if you don't like it don't buy it. Stop bitching about trivial things and just play the damn game.

[Ninver]

Except gamers can expect both and ask for both! Pretty graphics and a greatly fun game mate. No one is asking these devs to pick one. They chose to.

[MWH]

the difference is quite significant!.. this is greatly disappointing. those who are ok with it I think are mostly console owners who are happy they're getting the most of their boxes anyway. I'm not into this stupid "gameplay is what matters" argument because guess what, we know how important gameplay is but every single aspect in the game also matters; visuals, audio, gameplay mechanics and whatever else. beside, visuals are perhaps the only aspect pushing forward year after year while the gameplay is in general a recycle-and-borrow process. I'm no fanboy, I own a pc and multiple consoles.

The fact is many PC gamers upgraded their rigs in preparation for games such as Witcher3 based on their games' gameplay footage and system recommendations and all of a sudden the 2000$+ PC turn into a porting platform?! many gamers including myself didn't invest this much money benefiting multiple companies so at the end we play a port. I want my choices, I have my consoles for the exclusives and I have my PC for the ultimate possible visual experience if I chose to and I did, I paid for it and they showed us the good stuff on it. now where is it?

I have to say, it's a shame CD-Projekt chose to follow the footsteps of some companies who use deceit and to what gain really?

[UNKLE]

blablabla but thats pretty unfair the game need r9 290x to play max quality.. un optimized shit.

[Nightcyberspud]

I hate that PC gamers blame consoles for a game not looking as good as they think it should. If you look at it many PC games have the same, or similar set ups, as the current gen consoles. Blame market fragmentation within the PC community if you need to blame anything. If you are optimizing a game for multiple configurations of course it might not look the same. But then again only a select few would be able to run it if they did not do this.

[Ippiki Okami]

You speak the truth. Looking at the stats on steam 80% are still using windows 7 pcs with medium specs or less. Of those users less than 10% have high end PCs or DX12 compatible PCs.

I think there was no downgrade because it was never going to look as good as those concept trailers. What they should have done was what the Elite dangerous devs did and put a disclaimer saying "not actual gameplay" on the trailers so PC dorks don't freak out because they can't tell the difference between actual gameplay footage and cinematic/cgi trailer footage.

[someOnecalled]

They basically said its parity. I only did a steam survey after last year with a cheap laptop even when I had a steam account for years.most people I asked when playing a game after I finally took did they ever take it, most said no. And finally PC gamers are upset or more like disappointed the consoles are not stronger but we blame the devs.

[Articuno76]

TBH even market fragmentation isn't the culprit here either as they could have made a highly scalable game.

I think the truth is the amount of art asset creation it would have taken to make an entire world at the initial fidelity was simply not feasible.

If you look at this image comparison you'll notice the game changed from having unique location specific assets to what look like generic assets that will be reused in multiple areas:
http://a.disquscdn.com/uplo...

[MWH]

lol.. the difference between the two is so painful I can only express it by laughing.. but then:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BNsrK...

I was eagerly expecting a gaming experience unlike any other in every way.. but what to do. what's done is done. it's over.

[Soc5]

Holy crap, that's a big difference!

[Chinkyinc18]

"Trailer is.. trailer is a beautiful shot. Trailer is prepared, you take one location, you put the perfect lights, and the perfect camera angle, and the perfect scene, and it looks absolutely beautiful. It’s captured in super high definition and then you postprocess it. It’s a trailer."

Problems is, most average consumers don't know that. They think it is like a movie trailer where what they're seeing is what they're going to get. And they know this thus why they use it to their advantage and when people call'em out on it, they claim some gray-zone excuse. What I what is a requirement for devs and publishers to put an asterisk stating 'This is a trailer. May not represent actual gameplay.' on the trailers that aren't gameplay demos.

[PersonMan]

The industry should stop using enhanced graphics for their trailers. Show the game how it really is, then wow them even MORE when the game looks better closer to launch.

It's stupid to show someone a beautifully rendered scene of what their vision is, then give us a product that is only half of that. People feel cheated when that happens.

Then again, nobody wants to show off their half finished product because first impressions are very important to get people talking about the game.

It's a very thin line and you have to walk it very carefully.

[Soc5]

Come on man, give us some credit, we know what a trailer is and what gameplay is... Many people complaining are referring to the 35 min gameplay vid that was just released recently not trailers that were obviously enhanced. We know the difference, its not rocket science and the "average consumer" is not complaining, the hardcore pc gamers are the most pissed because they were expecting cutting edge graphics, not this.

[pabadamus1]

If people feel as if they've been deceived then they should abstain from buying the game. It's that simple guys. For those of you that decided to pre-ordered this thing, pursue a refund and let this experience serve as lesson that paying for games in advance is not a very smart thing to do. Never trust a promise. Only trust the tangible. For everyone else involved, enjoy the game. It looks good to me. I'm going to give it a try.

[Jozinho]

With the game getting so much hype and amazing reviews. There is absolutely no reason for the misleading trailer. Honestly, i don't care i had the Witcher 3 preorder 4 month ago. But i can see why people are complaining. Anyway enjoy the game guys ! Also, people that are on this site know what they are getting its misleading to the casual person.

[Mr Lahey]

Think about it. They created this game and have the right to downgrade it all they want to get the performance they need or whatever.. They don't owe you shit.. Im so tired of all spoiled whiners crying about downgrades on every fucking game..

[PersonMan]

I thought the game looked pretty flat and bad in the 2013 stuff. I like the PBR stuff a lot better. It looks more physically accurate and stunning.

People who think the old gameplay looked better are just living in the past and their eyes have gotten used to physically incorrect lighting systems.

[Serenity25]

I notice the PBR stuff and I like the way the game looks more now than the flatter overly sharpened old gamrplay.

But you bring up a good point. I think if developers show their games off early then people get used to it and when things get changed in the development process those people automatically see it as a downgrade just because it's different.

[ninjahunter]

So, i should just assume that everything shown to me about a game regardless of if its said to be footage, is fake? I like CD Projekt, but just a little less.