Wait, why can't Link from the Legend of Zelda series be a woman?

PBS Game/Show continues to provide some of the best discussion points in gaming, and I'd like for you to watch the video before we move forward. This is an interesting one.

Finished? OK.

It's fascinating to me that Nintendo calls Link a stand-in for the player while then claiming that gender is irrelevant. It may be irrelevant for you, it's very possible that Link's gender identity doesn't matter when you play a game.

But other players like to pour themselves into a character that at least superficially resembles themselves. It can be a bit harder to think of a character as representing you when they don't resemble you or your life experiences in any way.

[kayoss]

Maybe because he has a penis??? Link has always been established as a man. He was always referred to as a "Hero" not "Heroine". I think in one of the game one of the villager greeted Link, "Hello young Fellow." and another one also said, "Hey, it's Link, the wanted man! Help! Guards come quickly." There are other instances where other game character refer him to as a man. So Link is definately a dude. So far, all the Zelda games that have been released, Link is a man. But of course link can be a women in new games, but not in the already established games.

Source: http://en.wikiquote.org/wik...

[eyeofcore]

And remember that Link's soul was cursed to be reborn in same form basically.

[cleft5]

Of course this article would be from Crapolygon, I mean Polygon.

With that said, I did think and still do think the Link they showed off in that trailer was female. But lore wise the hero is always a male. I wouldnt mind them going in a different direction to shake things up, but the games lore is what it is.

[Chrischi1988]

This discussion is soooo stupid. Yeah, go on and destroy one of the best franchises, there is, just to apeace some fury feminists. I mean honestly, they complain about every shit. Oh, in GTA5 you can kill a women... ummmm no, you can kill men and women, so what is the biggie?

[joab777]

Exactly. If you want to make a new IP with a woman protagonist...go ahead. Bit don't change our games to be politically correct. It never works anyway. It must be organic to be successful.

[never4get]

Emphasis on "Maybe", pics or it never happened.

[Somebody]

The video is trying to use the recent Thorina logic by saying that "Link" is just a title that anyone of any gender can pick up. What's next? Gordon Freeman turned out to be just the codename for the orange hazardous material power suit that anyone of any gender can pick up and play in Half Life 3?

"it's very possible that Link's gender identity doesn't matter when you play a game."

That's true, the gender of game characters doesn't matter to me. Which is why sometimes I'm a bit perplexed to see "female protagonist" tags on games in the Steam Store. A good game should stand on it's content and not through guilt-mongering whether from the media or tags.

[rainslacker]

Who cares about Link? He's not even a titular character. Why can't Zelda be a man? I'm a male, and think the title character should represent those that have brought the games in the series for over 30 years...even when our parents were actually buying the games. Why isn't some female trying to rescue me from an evil tyrant? I want to be represented.

Anyhow, now that I got the sarcasm out of the way,

Link could be a female. But he isn't. Nintendo made him male almost 30 years ago. Pretty simple concept.

Just because some people think that every hero in a game should now be changed to suit them doesn't mean that an iconic character needs to be changed to suit some people. It would appear that millions of fans have no problem with Link's gender. Not every game needs to have character customization. Some games, particularly story based ones, are simply written for a specific character, and that character is based on what the developer wanted to do, not what some random person wants.

[Nineball2112]

"He's not even a titular character."

I see what you did there.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[Chrischi1988]

Oh, why cant Mario be a woman?

[3-4-5]

* Sick of People trying to steal other people's creations and turn them into their own thing.

Lazy and pathetic. Create your own characters.

Make them female if you want.

It's not difficult.

Stop trying to steal other people's ideas polygon.

[Khajiit86]

I dont know why this whole gay/lesbian shi+ is being pushed on us.... I dont mind them, but ITS NOT NORMAL... God gave you a F'N Penis and Vagina for a reason.

In my state NY, now we pay for sex changes with our taxes??? WTF? Really?

[SaveFerris]

Aonuma and Nintendo say Link is male, until Nintendo say otherwise, or give the player the ability to choose a female Link.

[LightDiego]

Just another stupid article coming from Polygon.

[annoyedgamer]

I'm surprised they are still beating this dead hoarse. I guess they figure if they whine about it enough, Nintendo will cave in and "reveal" link to be a transgendered or gender confused female hero, we all know it would be the liberals wet dream.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

This has to be the most ridiculous idea for an article I have ever seen.

"Wait... Why can't Superman be a girl?"
I support progressive thinking but come on... Idiot hipsters.

[RedPyramidThing]

Marx would be proud

[Mr Marvel]

Don't give them any more stupid ideas.

Next think Superman will be a woman and Supergirl will be a man. Heck, why let logic and common sense get in the way?!

[jakmckratos]

For the same reason Mario can't be a chick and Lora Croft can't be a man. Leave the characters gender alone

[coolbeans]

The video actually brings Mario up early on to specify there being a difference between single characters and honorific characters, and arguing that Link falls into the latter category.

[rainslacker]

But the stories of Zelda are usually based around Link and his adventures. How is that different than mario in most cases?

In Mario, most of the time, the actual character is moot to the actually game play, and they all have the same abilities, with a few notable special exceptions.

In zelda, how do you honor a character if you make them into nothing but a representation of something else? Seems that that would be devaluing the character in favor of pandering to the player.

I've never really felt that Link was meant to be a representation of the player, just representing the idea of a hero. Link however, had a distinct personality(as weak as it is TBH), and his gender was never an help or hindrance to that heroism.

[coolbeans]

@rainslacker

"But the stories of Zelda are usually based around Link and his adventures. How is that different than mario in most cases?"

1.) Mario is to some degree a caricature of some masculine archetype whereas Link's always been more androgynous to begin with.

2.) The reincarnation angle of the LoZ series makes it understandable were it to happen. Link, Zelda, Ganon, and the good vs. evil themes are continuously brought over but the lore never specifically states these three characters ALWAYS come back as the same gender, race, etc. similar to something like Cloud Atlas.

"In zelda, how do you honor a character if you make them into nothing but a representation of something else? Seems that that would be devaluing the character in favor of pandering to the player."

What exactly determines that this would result in the character becoming "nothing but a representation of something else" now? And can you already determine that something of value has been lost?

It seems like some of your reply is going overboard with these assumptions imo.

[rainslacker]

Yeah, I understand. I wasn't saying that it couldn't be done, just that it's not the way Link has been presented for so long.

Nintendo is pretty deeply rooted in it's own history, and asking them to change something so common to the story seems like someone trying to push the wrong buttons.

It is exaggeration to emphasis my point. The people asking the question at hand want the character to be changed. That isn't honoring the character that they seem to think is worth honoring, but asking to be pandered to to satisfy their own desires. It changes the honor of the main character to represent the people who ask the question at hand.

Anyhow, serious question.

Hypothetically, if Link was changed to a female in a future game, assuming the option wasn't left up to the player, do you think the game would receive that great of a reception? Do you believe it would sell, or would Nintendo receive quite a lot of backlash for the decision?

The Zelda series is almost 30 years old and has a devout following of fans, and is considered an iconic franchise by even those who don't play the games anymore...or ever in some cases.

People often complain about much less significant changes in games, movie series, comic books, etc. But changing Links gender, even though he is rather androgynous he still male, is asking a bit much.

I've never considered that Nintendo made Links defined by his gender, just his actions. And I just see this particular topic's question as looking at the character in the wrong way.

[coolbeans]

^

"Nintendo is pretty deeply rooted in it's own history, and asking them to change something so common to the story seems like someone trying to push the wrong buttons."

If they're just presenting their take as mildly as this (despite somehow causing the ridiculous hoopla + false equivalences here), which was clearly inspired by the first Zelda Wii U Trailer presented, it doesn't strike me that way.

"The people asking the question at hand want the character to be changed. That isn't honoring the character that they seem to think is worth honoring, but asking to be pandered to to satisfy their own desires. It changes the honor of the main character to represent the people who ask the question at hand. "

Fair enough... while I can agree what's said towards the end definitely comes off pushy while also enthusiastic, I don't necessarily think that "honor" is going to be inherently devalued. These same people still love what Link represents: bravery, strength, etc. But his gender never really exemplified those traits.

If acting demanding about it, sure that's definitely petulant and not honoring the artists' wishes. But considering how Aunoma appreciated those FemLink responses last year, it doesn't sound like it's that big of a deal to them.

"Hypothetically, if Link was changed to a female in a future game, assuming the option wasn't left up to the player, do you think the game would receive that great of a reception? Do you believe it would sell, or would Nintendo receive quite a lot of backlash for the decision?"

In an age where New Dante can make some of the internet lose their collective minds, there's no way backlash wouldn't happen. It'd probably be even worse given how much discussion about this has happened and anything that Nintendo said probably wouldn't matter to some in favor of spreading a "just SJW pandering BS" narrative. I think its sales performance would be more dependent on platform. I've never seen any statistics where male core gamers have said they don't buy games with women protags so it's tough to say.

"People often complain about much less significant changes in games, movie series, comic books, etc. But changing Links gender, even though he is rather androgynous he still male, is asking a bit much."

When considering how the lore seems open to these kinds of changes (unlike the recent FemThor changes) without feeling forced, I don't think so. Looking at it from a writing perspective, it seems like an interesting thing to tinker with similarly to something like Cloud Atlas.

Either way, it's not like I'll lose any sleep should Ninty decide to stay the course.

[rainslacker]

I'm not going to lose sleep over it either. it may seem I'm trying to make forceful arguments in these comments, but truthfully it's more just discussion on the topic at hand. If it happens I don't know how I'd actually feel about it, but suppose it would depend on the reasons for it happening. Exploring new possibilities with the character/s is one thing, but trying to placate a marginalized, albeit vocal, group within gaming is quite another.

I really do miss the times when you would comment more...even though you mostly hid out in the blogs.:)

[coolbeans]

@rainslacker

Parts of it came off that way, but your conclusion mirrors my reaction to it. Heck, even if this weren't to go through with Ninty, I've been genuinely impressed by the excitement some people have had even at the idea of FemLink becoming an actual thing. It put into perspective the participatory culture that's become sort of a thing with games and the internet. This one being a more positive one too.

It's certainly nice to have some more down time from the busyness of work recently too. Glad you decided to reply and sticking around for the a good conversation here too. :)

[Concertoine]

Link is such a blank slate with pretty much no character, what does it matter what gender he is?

[Mr Marvel]

Go home before you hurt yourself.

[Concertoine]

I don't think people are getting my comment.

He's got no personality, no dialogue, he was literally designed as a "link" between the player and the game world. You can even name him. He's a blank slate.

Therefore, his gender really doesn't matter.

[SouljAx360]

Link is a long time established character. He doesn't say much, but he doesn't have to. Everyone knows that Link a boy/man that is friends with fairies, saves Zelda and all of hyrule, and plays a mean Ocarina.

If Link was a chick, and Zelda was a man that would ruin the game because nobody will to travel through 10 dungeons or temples filled with dangerous monsters to save a guy. With that said though, I wouldn't mind a game where you could play as Zelda, maybe some kind of co op Zelda game. Link with his sword, Zelda with her arrows, would be interesting I think.

[Metallox]

"If Link was a chick, and Zelda was a man that would ruin the game because nobody will to travel through 10 dungeons or temples filled with dangerous monsters to save a guy."

Like, really? Both characters are barely developed, especially Link, thus the shift would barely make a difference at all. Gender of these characters is irrelevant, as Concertoine says.

Even so, it's Nintendo's decision in the end.

[Khajiit86]

@Concertoine

"He's got no personality"
"You can even name him"
"He's a blank slate."
"his gender really doesn't matter."

You keep saying him, he's, and his.....I guess its a boy.

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

There's a video out there showing that Link isn't as much of a blank slate as people like to assume he is.
I think Game Theory put it up; if I find it then I'll PM you about it.

But I digress...
Even if he were a blank slate, it's because there's literally no reason for him to be a female, especially when, in context of the story, he's always been a Hero, not a Heroine, as has his spirit, which was cursed[or blessed depending on how you look at it] to always reincarnate as the spirit of the Hero [again, not Heroine] when Hyrule's need was greatest.

[Concertoine]

I mean in Windwaker he has some personality. That's more or less it. I really couldn't care less what Game Theory has to say. "The Wii U is the Next Virtual Boy"... nuff said.

In saying "his gender doesn't matter", i wasn't trying to say "he should be a girl", i was more jabbing at the article. Why should it matter if a character as bland as Link is a guy? If he was female he'd be just as bland.

And don't give any story context as support, the Zelda chronology is crazy and anything could happen.

[OtakuDJK1NG-Rory]

Skyward Sword you will know why.

Everything you need to know is in that game.

[Vanfernal]

Why can't Mario be a girl? Why can't Kratos be a girl? We can do this all day.

[rainslacker]

If Kratos was a girl some people would complain that his skirt was too short.

[ziggurcat]

wait, why can't lara croft from the tomb raider series be a man?

see how stupid that sounds?

[RedPyramidThing]

"see how liberal that sounds?"

fix'd

[GreetingsfromCanada]

And then polygon pulled out its sword and white armour

[chronoforce]

LOL! good one.

[wonderfulmonkeyman]

You mean pink armor.
White is too man-ish for feminists and their hatred of corporate white man-ran America.XD

[persona4chie]

Well technically if you go by what the series has said and done. Link can't be female because the first Link wasn't. Just like how demise was male, and Zelda was female. It's "destined" to follow that path of reincarnation. While yes technically they could be reincarnated as a different gender, that's just not how it was done.

[Articuno76]

I could still imagine it working. Presumably the story would retcon the genders of the respective participants if you chose a female link.

That way it would be perfectly possible for (for example) a Majora's Mask sequel to follow the same "female" Link that "appeared" (in retcon) in MM and OOT, even if no female Link is actually available to the player in those games.

But it should be an option. Not a replacement. Otherwise the whole rationale that Polygon is pushing for a female link falls apart.

[persona4chie]

That's true, one slight issue with that though is in many cases Nintendo has created "suggested" love interests so to speak like with link and ilia, Zelda on skyward sword. Depending on the importance of it though they can omit it altogether. Or switch the gender roles accordingly. but that could be a bit more difficult in keeping the story of the game together. Because otherwise they'd have to build the game (or at least the story) around being neutral or working for either gender.

[Sir_Simba]

they say this and push till they change link's gender, then I will ask to change tomb raiders gender then WW4 begins, because modern day feminist.

[Articuno76]

Which is a shame because the Tomb Raider series is dying for a prequel with Lara's father as the protagonist. We hear so, so, sooooo much about his exploits and yet don't even have any contact with him.

Even in the reboot they opted to include a father-figure than Lara's father outright. A choice which I found kind of... well, bizarre.

[WeAreLegion]

Because he's not. He's a boy. Zelda's a girl though. Samus is a girl. Lightning is a girl. Trish is a girl.

Why can't Polygon writers act like mature adults?

[kayoss]

Next polygon going to write an article that reads, "what if donkey kong was a donkey and not a gorilla?".

[Articuno76]

Ahaha. I was reminded of a T-shirt I saw at a con recently that read "What if Zelda was a girl?".

I've actually thought having Link be either male of female could work for most of the Zelda games out there. Most. Sure he's referred to as a "hero" in legend, but it's not a stretch for a female "hero" to have become a male "hero" as their story trades hands and generations. Besides, the series is full of shaky retcon anyway.

And TBH, it's never been particularly important that Link is male. Like ever. Heck, he hardly has any characterisation to speak of in the first place.

But I feel the article is asking the wrong question when instead they should be asking why can't we have a Prince Zelda? One who cross-dresses as a woman called Sheik?

Dwell on that for a second.

[sungam3d]

Ugh.
Feminists really need to go make their own games, new IP, don't destroy old classics with this politically correct BS.

[Scatpants]

They're games will be super PC and suck. You'll probably eat food for energy and be like "is this GMO?"

[Skate-AK]

Story Quality WTF?
Like This Website? NO

This a stupid. The character wasn't envisioned as a female. Why don't they just have Link have a sister, like Windwaker, but as a playable character.

[Scatpants]

I want him to be a tranny.

[KonaSquid]

I think it could be interesting. I'm sure it would lead to a ton more R34 content, lol

[2pacalypsenow]

Why cant lara croft be a man?

[ShaunCameron]

Better question: why can't feminists and SJW's pool their resources together and make their own games?

[Kal-V3]

Let's take some female charters and gender swap them into males. It's all about equality right? If they want to gender swap male characters to female, why not the other way too?

Lawrence Croft
Frank (Mirrors Edge)
Jim (Beyond Good and Evil)
Simon Blade (Mortal Kombat)
Prince Apricot (Super Mario Bros.) {see what i did there?}

Let's get cracking. We got some equality-ing to do.

[kayoss]

Kratos = Nariko... Oh wait

[StormLegend]

Hell no! having Link as a girl would mess everything up.

[baraka007]

It's finally happened ladies and gentlemen!! The internet has officially complained about everything there is to complain about and now it's on to making things up to whine about now. Wow.. I mean... WOW?! can you believe it?!! it took about two decades but wow... Great job everyone!! Great job...

[just-joe]

Because Nintendo doesn't bow down to feminist edict.

[Mr Marvel]

Why? Because that would just be the dumbest idea ever.

[WizzroSupreme]

Because a "girl Link" would look almost exactly the same anyway and he WAS cursed to be reincarnated in the same form, same as Ganon.

[goldwyncq]

21st century feminism strikes again!

[BudokaiGamer]

Nobody ever said Link couldn't be a woman in newer games though...I think this is just stupid feminist arguments just trying to start a fight...

[fitfox]

true dat

[masso9112]

this again??? It's like making Mario female, or Lara Croft or Samus male... it's just plain stupid, Link is a male character and should remain male, the same goes for female characters, they should remain female

[Mikito11]

Not this again...

[madjedi]

So I guess using a pre existing female character like Zelda from the Legend of Zelda series is too hard a concept for those wanting a female protagonist.

And instead we should change a already existing character to suit the whims and desires of the social justice brigade.

We have been playing with female characters since the original Metroid game, so there isn't some aversion to female characters as lead characters by white/male gamers, least not that I have seen.

Create your own unique characters stop trying to change pre existing characters to suit your social or political agendas.