DirectX 12 has a set of exciting features lined up which could change PC and possibly Xbox One games development in a big way.
“On the DX12 question, I was asked early on by people if DX12 is gonna dramatically change the graphics capabilities of Xbox One and I said it wouldn’t. I’m not trying to rain on anybody’s parade, but the CPU, GPU and memory that are on Xbox One don’t change when you go to DX12. DX12 makes it easier to do some of the things that Xbox One’s good at, which will be nice and you’ll see improvement in games that use DX12, but people ask me if it’s gonna be dramatic and I think I answered no at the time and I’ll say the same thing.” -Phil Spencer
Thats not going to stop people from making wild speculations, but it will prevent them from placing blame on Phil. He didn't misled anyone. Of course they want people to be hyped for their new API though. I can already see how this plays out though. People will blame him and say he lied, when he didn't.
Essentially, a shit storm will brew and the wrong people will get strung up for it. All while Mr.X gets away with fooling the public yet again
funny, people dont bash Cerny for calling the PS4 a "Supercharged PC". which made me bust out laughing when i read it. im really excited about DX12.
@Mikeyy We aren't that extreme about our consoles of preference. I don't think these guys are really fans of Xbox. I think they are more like characters. And sometimes I feel like the whole thing is a stealth troll against Xbox fans. He is basically stealing information from http://www.xilinx.com/ A lot of the images on his blog came from this site. He also steals images and slides from another FPGA company and re-purposes them for his 'insider' bull. Its very deceptive and its down right cruel and targeted at Xbox One gamers.
@Solar He didnt say that.... and how is that relevant? He said Supercharged PC "ARCHITECTURE" and how is that relevant to this? Alot of people are desperate to believe this of MS officially shooting it down. People have been saying "wait for GDC" "something will happen at GDC" and it did. http://n4g.com/news/1685158... People ate crows and now we are starting all over.
@eonjay: Phil Spencer do esn't think there is a big difference between 900p or 1080p either so I think "dramatic" is relative. For me, the increase isn't dramatic either even if you gain a 100% increase. Let's face it, even when you get a magnitude (that is 10x or 1000%) increase, it doesn't really make that much of an impact. If it did, I would be all over PC gaming, but I am not. Heck, I am even considering getting a Wii U, but I am so busy with my Xbox One already.
#donthate That is a very subjective interpretation of his comment but I believe what you are saying is valid.
It's simple, Dx12 we do a lot for XOne. Question is, for who? For major publishers with multiplat games? No! If anything it will only benefit any studios that takes advantage of it. Commenters like Gamefame ONLY wants to remeber this and rinse repeat it when it will never effect him enjoying his Ps4: " I’m not trying to rain on anybody’s parade, but the CPU, GPU and memory that are on Xbox One don’t change when you go to DX12. " Which only makes sense and a lot of us who likes what Microsoft is doing with Dx12 totally agree because console hardware is physically outdated the day it's launched. Tell us something we don't know. But he'll go on forgetting this part: " DX12 makes it easier to *do some of the things that Xbox One’s good at*, which will be nice and *you’ll see improvement in games that use DX12*." Again markt this post, Xbox One games developed fully for Dx12 (more likely first party) we'll see a huge benefit and some awesome gameplay. All in my opinion. ;D
And? Obviously software isn't gonna change the physical hardware itself. Its all about efficiency with what you have. Good copy and paste damage control tho.
Phil Spencer is downnplaying lot of this stuff so it doesn't backfire on the company. Even Brad Wardell says it a PR marketing from Microsoft to downplay dx12 performance gains. Phil is leaving it open to tech guys to tell us more. Sorry we know what gamers are like i don't blame them after the hate they got in 2013 better to be careful. Microsoft dx12 will bring performances gains to xb1 i will take bets on it now i be right. As far as Xbox One goes, the console already has a low level API which is similar to DX 12 so the impact might not be as massive as it would have on PC platforms. Read more at http://gamingbolt.com/direc... Seriously why do people constantly bring this up as the reason x box 1 will not see gains? From Brad Wardell who actually created a game with dx12 in mind. "Every time I hear someone say “but X allows you to get close to the hardware” I want to shake them. None of this has to do with getting close to the hardware. It’s all about the cores. Getting “closer” to the hardware is relatively meaningless at this point. It’s almost as bad as those people who think we should be injecting assembly language into our source code. We’re way beyond that"
"Seriously why do people constantly bring this up as the reason x box 1 will not see gains? " same reason nobody asks is your gaming coming to xb1 in the future when sony announces an exclusive but they always ask it for anything thing announced for xb1 . i have no idea what dx 12 will do for performance , seeing brad wardel game running on dx12 i tend to believe what he's been saying . one thing is pretty clear with a game being ported to dx12 in one day and crossing play between pc and xb1 in 6 days . i've hear it said that the main reason games aren't getting to 1080p on the xb1 is a simple time/money issue . dx12 is going to make thing much easier and faster for devs to bring games to xb1 . having the xb1 and win10-pc so close together can only bring good things for the xb1 in the future .
"Microsoft dx12 will bring performances gains to xb1 i will take bets on it now i (will) be right." I was going to reply, but what's the point. People will believe what ever it is they want to believe. Who am I to sprinkle negative energy on someone's cloud of joy, even if it is just an illusion. http://i.kinja-img.com/gawk... https://uproxx.files.wordpr... http://reactiongif.org/wp-c...
@uwishnakedwomengaveuhugs, A quick look at your comment history suggests that all you do all day long is sprinkle negative energy on X1 articles. @cayosh, at what point did he say DX12 was Magix for X1? What do you know of the X1 architecture and the impact of DX12 to call someone else delusional aabouthow DX12 ccould help? I've said it before and I'll say it again, the X1 will always be limited by its hardware, can't change its GPU, it is what it is, same thing for PS4, the GPU is what it is. There is no secret sauce for X1, but the fact that Microsoft is doing everything to maximize it's potential is fun and exciting for X1 owners. DX12 may only help the tiniest bit, but it's better than nothing. The cloud may never come to fruition, but the idea is out there now and it could be something amazing, and if X1 owners get to be on the ground floor of these innovations whethe. They transform the XX1 or not is a lot of fun for us to follow and watch unfold. # stop hating on innovation
I don't know why you got so many dislikes, Phil really did say that
People don't like hearing realities that are at odds with their wishes.
Alright, then you have nothing to worry about. You can rest easy that DX12 won't help the X1. It's always great when you can shoot down something helping gaming huh? /s. Clearly you had this ready to copy and paste, and you were excited to do it, cause you were the first one here. More to the point, the quote you decided to use here actually points to the aspect that I am most excited for with DX12 and X1: -Yes, X1 already has a low level AP for CPU usage....DX12 may help some, but not a ton there...but any little bit sounds great. -DX12 is already rumored to be helping eSRAM by about 15% and helping to get more out of the X1 GPU as well. Probably nothing earth shattering, but any little bit there also helps. -HOWEVER the most important aspect that DX12 can bring to X1 is tools to help game development. Neither X1 nor PS4 are tapped out yet, but neither works the same way either. At the moment PS4 is a much easier system to develop for and get the most out of....it's just straight forward and powerful for a console. So due to time/money, when companies make games they pretty much just make it for PS4 and copy and paste to X1...which the X1 can handle, but not as well when you do it that way. In brute force the PS4 is undoubtedly stronger. So if DX12 allows for tools that make development easier, taking FULL advantage of eSRAM (NOT the same as eDRAM, and has more capabilities), taking full advantage of tiled resources, developing cross play games, and easy porting....and that means more devs start building games from the ground up for DX12 and built specifically for X1 instead of copy and pasted from PS4....we might some real significant changes (esp if we then add in whatever % DX12 allows for more efficient usage of the hardware...even 5% could be great)
"DX12 makes it easier to do some of the things that Xbox One’s good at, which will be nice and you’ll see improvement in games that use DX12" No one has ever claimed that DX12 is going to make a dramatic change to games on Xbox One. Even Phil Spencer says in the same quote you use to try and disqualify DX12 on Xbox One that you will see improvements to games on Xbox One using DX12.
DX12 wont change the Hardware. It will optimize it even better then before. Thats something you fanboys choose not to accept. Don't be jealous of DX12. Its a good thing for PC/Xbox/Mobile gaming.
geez people. if it wasn't gonna do anything then why even add it to the system? Of course we'll see gains. Will it be like getting a new system? No but it will help keep higher resolutions while maintaining a solid framerate. It will take a little of the load off of the gpu and the cpu so things like AI (yeah i'm looking at you The Order: 1886) won't have to be comprimised. Who really cares if the gains are big or small. It's better than remaining stagnant. Sony fanboys are really insecure about their purchase it seems. They have the more powerful system (on paper) but they still feel the need to talk about graphics graphics graphics in X1 articles. Boggles my mind. It wouldn't be news if it wasn't news...i'll let you all marinate on that one for a bit.
People who understand technology better than you explaining what "CPU bound" means is not "insecure". The PS4 is the more powerful console on paper and in practice. That is reality no matter how much FUD and lying you do. The Order 1886 AI is fine. The PS4 and Xbox CPUs are identical, the Xbox CPU is clocked 9% higher. That is the ONLY difference but you are Lying and trying to exaggerate using baseless examples about The Order. PS4's GPGPU capability is literally twice that of Xbox. You are the one making insecure, hypocritical, blind fanboy personal attacks here. While spreading delusions and lies about PS4's stronger hardware.
Until proven the contrary, by comparing multiplateform games, the PS4 is not just more powerful in paper, it's just more powerful. Until now, DX12 will make the Xbone morepowerful x-times, that right now, is on paper. See the difference here?
@gamerfan. The order's ai is not fine we've all seen gameplay by now of the stupid things they do and the lackluster lycans and boss fights. And it has nothing to do with how much power the cpu of the x1 has over the ps4. Its because they used most of the ps4s resources towards graphics. This is truth not fanboy bs. There is no FUD because i dont have a ps4 and wont care to get one until sf5 comes out. You wont see me in ps4 articles praising the power of the cloud. I dont care. I want fun games not graphical masterpieces. Bottom line is dx12 WILL make the X1 a better system. Too bad the ps4 defense force cant come to terms with that
Lols @ the disagrees for a direct quote. What do they think. Disagreement will somehow make it not true lol. OT. DX12 is exciting for what it brings to PC game development. Finally a console level access API for PC devs. It's just silly the way some of the fanboi s are carrying on about DX12 and the Xbox1. When even the head of Xbox division says DX12 won't effect Xbox1 much. Maybe you should listen.
Phil is smart enough to not over-promise anything until it's ready.
Really impressive jump for PC gaming, curious to see exactly what impact it has on the Xbone
Lol On Curtis Copy and paste. The little improvements they have made on the SDK has pushed the Xbox one really close and in some cases better in the performance and resolution department than the PS4. We can see it from a mile a way that DX12 will be very good for the Xbox One regardless on you play with words.
SDK hasn't pushed the XBOX really close. It inched it forward these things are not tthat far part to begin with. What i love is the Xbox SDK will continue to bring it to the level of the PS4 is currently and since PS4 is static and can never improve in a year or so it will be the same as ps4 /s @bleedsoe I didn't bring ps4 into this conversation so i'm not sure why you're responding to me.
when stories leak or sony announces changes to their API , people will lap it up and be just as curious but sony has nothing to do with DX12 stories . @BlackTar187 sorry just a general comment , i'm sure Naughty Dog is busy squeezing everything they can (at this point , and as they get more tricks) out of the ps4 , MS will always be a little more open about this stuff because of the side side of it .
Complete and total Lie. PS4 will have a performance advantage the entire generation as it has more powerful hardware.
He also used the word "Massive" in another interview. Do you Know the defenition of " Dramatic" and " Massive"??? Massive/Dramatic change to me is 50% and up So is DX12 a Massive/Dramatic change for XB1? NO! Will it be a "big" change could be.. In closing i agree with Phil and the words he chose..Imo dx12 could be " Big" Difference but not a Massive/Dramatic difference.
I disagree. Especially about the Indirect/Direct stuff. The biggest takeaway I saw was the "Copy" function. That could be huge. Massive/Dramatic would fit that scenario quite well. I'll try to explain my thinking behind this. Basically, they figured out a way to stream textures through a somewhat redundant state. If Tiled Resources can be used for mip-mapping and mega-textures, then this "Copy" approach means, it frees up the eSRAM since the system is holding redundancy. The metadata that Tiled Resources and Mip-Mapping provide, could theoretically be cached and reused. Meaning eSRAM would be at full capacity, AGAIN. If what was explained works the way I described, cacheing things would free up a ton of resources with almost no hit to performance. It's like the system is getting more efficient and more power as it caches more data.
Going 2b honest i dont understand what you jus said but if its positive im in full agreement with you Outhink.
@outthink: you are right. This is what i have been trying to say for ages on here. The xbo strength is in its architecture. This power game is not as simple as gddr5 1.8tf gpu = winner. I think once devs get new tools and get to grips with the hardware's unique setup the results will speak for themselves.
All I have to say is, if you think m$ made a console knowing they were making dx12, and said console wouldn't take full advantage of dx12, you're an idiot. period
No If you think that DX12 is going to have a massive impact on the Xbox One you're an idiot period....Elementary school common sense, adding in software DOES NOT massively change the hardware of said electronic device....DX12 will have major enhancements for PC gaming, there are 9999999999999 different combinations you can have with PC hardware, consoles have 1 spec Any moronic Xbox fanboys who thing DX12 is going to be the savior of the Xbox One are going to have a lot of heartbreak and disappointment coming their way....1st party games will be developed with DX12 and have some gains, 3rd parties will NOT develop using DX12 because they know the PS4 is massively outselling the Xbox one
@deadpoolio316: Your biased ignorance on this subject is showing. Regardless of any performance improvements which there will be no matter how many times people like you say there wont, DX12 will make the ps4 the odd one out for game development. The ease of making a game on PC and porting it over to xbo in mere days with dx12 will save companies alot of money. It seems some people cant grasp the importance of software. Apart from system architecture how else can you explain iphones outperforming some android devices with twice or 3 times the specs. Some people forget how important good software is to overall performance of these products.
Xbox's API uses DX 11.x that already includes features from DX12. It is not some massive game changing software update that will unlock secret hardware power.
Man im so sick of these stupid comments!!! Just stop you clearly don't know anything about dx12 otherwise you wouldn't be saying stupid crap like that. Can dx11.x allow all the cpu cores to talk to the gpu at the same time? Does dx11 have an efficient API for the esram allowing true dx12 tiled resources?? What about all the optimizations it includes regarding lighting and particle effects. Most devs are not utilizing the esram and xbo's architecture correctly. DX12 will provide the necessary tools to help devs do this aswell as many other improvements. So in a way for some devs it will be like unlocking secret hardware because they weren't using it the right way from the beginning. Esram is either pretty useless if not used right or amazing if used correctly. DX12 helps with that. There are so many improvements going from dx11 to dx12 its crazy. To say it won't do anything is just pig headed ignorance.
I believe DX12 is being downplayed on Xbox One a lot. If you look at what the adjustments have done to the SDK, you have to expect better from it. Remember Destiny was going to be 900p until they got the update. That update released a portion of a core and ten percent of the GPU from Kinect. DX12 allows all of the CPU cores to talk to the GPU. Parts of the GPU are normally idle. DX12 gives the GPU constant work. No matter how you look at it that is more ability. Ignore the changing hardware nonsense. It's like previously fighting with one hand behind your back. DX12 releases the other hand. It's not that you got a new hand. It's that you can now use it.
If I remember right, the same with Diablo. These were games that Microsoft helped with before their release to hit a better resolution and our frame rate. If someone still thinks that a game developer said oh dx12 won't change anything, why does Microsoft,who created the tools that devs use have to step in and help before release? It's like people look down on Microsoft on the Playstation side because Ms owns X1, but totally forget what Ms does. Like hello, look at what Pc getting out of something like DX12, who also make the X1. Let's say even if the X1 doesn't benefit much from Dx12, hands down Ms is who I'd put my money on innovation and improvements of a console. Look at 360. Imagine every month the x1 has gotten an update. Ps4 has a few I guess, but didn't one of them screw up a feature last fall which required another update? I'm just glad the x1 can now be more involved with a pc when it comes to gaming. I just wonder if there's a cross play game from the x1 to pc,if you run it 4k on pc, if anyone will argue resolution?
You might get 3-5 fps more. That's all.
Are you talking about Xbox One?
Ya know in your article you show two pictures of Fable which you say this "In the second demonstration, the DX 11 build of Fable Legends runs at 40 odd fps but the DX 12 builds boosts it to 60 frames per second." But if you look at the image which has a clear average FPS the top image is 43 and the bottom image is 49. Plus the camera is not looking at the exact same spot. And as computers go literally moving the mouse one degree can drastically change the fps depending on lighting and particle effects ect. Based on the information available nothing can really be assumed since the higher average fps view could have just been looking away from all the light sources.
"[Check the frame rate below the average frame rate]." Read the article again! And the average frame rate is not a correct indication since the developer switched from DX11 to DX 12 on the fly.
It's better to watch the presentation on Fable for DX11 vs DX12 starts at 49:40 minutes. http://channel9.msdn.com/Ev... When Fable is ported to DX12 from DX11, they were able to achieve the same frame-rate while going from 900p to 1080p. That's a pretty good improvement for using DX12 and a few new features. Remember that's porting to DX12 not even writing from scratch for DX12. http://i.imgur.com/m7OwYd5....
I love all the fanboys saying that pcs will benefit from dx12 but not the xone xD.... isnt the xone (same as ps4) just the same like pcs using the x86 architecture?? The only difference is that the PC hardware is changing very fast so it will benefit more and more over the years while the xone will stuck at 15 or 20 or whatever else percent over the whole gen since the hardware wont change.
Not necessarily but kind if true. See what dx11 was doing was letting devs really fine tune their games to run on an ubundance of pc setups while console setups never changed. So from what I understand, pc have been advancing its tech to the point where if you wanted games to run better,just throw more power at it whether it's cpu,gpu,ram whatever instead of optimizing the games.while on the console side since the hardware never changed since release, it took devs time to get use to that specific hardware and making use of it. So now comes along dx12 that should let devs really get down to that infinity of pc builds and get the games to really make use of them. In the console side, there remains the possibility that the x1 might benefit since it already did from all the miner ones since it's release. There allot of people that say including devs that dx12 won't benefit the x1,but why are there so people also saying it's difficult to develop multiplat games for the x1 due to hardware. Obviously over a console life span, the utilization of the hardware improved. A studio that made a game exclusive to the hardware likely praised is hardware,and their games ran really well. As the x1 and ps4 being the same, the as same as much as their different, hence ram type,esram,whatever cloud brings, what dx12 can bring if it's exclusive to windows 10 which is coming to x1,who knows. But I can confidently say with the x1 being in MS hands, the improvements are gonna be real. Hardwares is nothing without proper software, and updates,regardless if it's from Dx12 or new tools to devs. Look at any hardware from when their new, to later down the road when is properly being utilized.
Correction, dx11 was 'not' letting devs to really get their games to run on the obundance of pc setups. X1, ps4, and pc's might all be computers, but that $1000 or so titan graphics card for pc is what set pc's apart from consoles. Hence console talk is like what resolution is the game, and what frames per a second, and how the graphics look. Pc is more like resolution even up to 4k,frames per a second, graphic setting like high or ultra, anti aliasing (it think I spelt that right), and even multi screen setups, and sli/crossfire gpu setups. That's the difference between a console and pc. Owning a x1 and high end pc really teaches you allot, phew lol hope I helped
whats so hard to understand that future games created with dx12 in mind will benefit significantly opposed to the xb1 it's self..
Dx12 will be a game changer for xbox one we all know this some people just don't want to admit it
like again, the DX12 is going benefit huge on Intel processors than AMD FX cores if proven first, but on the AMD jaguar cores is so cripple of a version of APU cores that you find in latest steamroller cores, but with GPU of 270-270x instead of R7 low end...and Microsoft knows well that cpu design is so bad it only can process 3 cores instructions per clock cycle in Level1 cache and 4 cores max in level 2 while level 3 if it has one like FX does 48 instructions per clock cycle but FX only has 8 cores...while opteron can have 16 cores with 32 threads total, well imagine how much would benefit the FX clock at 4.4 ghz vs Jaguar 1.5 or 1.6 ghz would do...???? well only 4 cores can communicate the GPU directly if it has unified memory address like PS4 does but with sloppy esram how would developers make games to function with esram and ddr3 its not unified access with esram..??
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