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Zoe Quinn: GamerGate must be condemned

Games publishers and industry figures must "stand-up and condemn" the movement referred to as "GamerGate", developer Zoe Quinn has told the BBC.

Ms Quinn has been at the centre of a furore which some argue is about ethics in journalism, but others consider to be a largely misogynist hate campaign.

The 27-year-old was forced to leave her home after receiving death threats.

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ArchangelMike1476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

#Gamergate making major news headlines... I'm impressed. I hope gamers begin to grow up, and the industry as a whole begins to grow up. Considereing that the average game is apparently 35, and most game developerss are well over 40+, I'm surprised that this #Gamergate has been allowed to go on for so long. It's a complete shame and an indictment on gamers, and specifically those who are promulgating the whole #Gamergate conspiracy. Anyone who starts making death threats or even being vitriolic becasue of a game... any game... is unbalanced and needs to unplug the PC/console/tablet etc for at least a week. If you can't live without it for a week then you've got deeper problems.

green1476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

"Anyone who starts making death threats or even being vitriolic becasue of a game... any game... is unbalanced and needs to unplug the PC/console/tablet etc for at least a week. If you can't live without it for a week then you've got deeper problems. "

Completely agree.

Concertoine1476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

These death threats don't prove anything, other than that there are crazy people in the world.
I bet Johnny Depp gets death threats from crazy people every day. He just doesn't use them as a tool because he isn't pushing an agenda.

pinkcrocodile751476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

This doesn't seem too complicated.

There seems to be two issues;

1. Zoe Quinn: Simply trace the threat down and have the people arrested, publicly mind, prosecuted and give them some form of custodial sentense.

2. GamerGate: Is it me or are blowing game journalism malfeasance out of the water.

Gaming journalism ranks up there with chess weekly and country life. We aren't talking mainstream here!.

It's up top the industry to police these kind of accusations, though that didn't stop News of the World now did it.

Mountain out of a molehill that last one is. Zoe Quinn on the other hand is a matter for the police and to publicly name, shame and incarcerate these cyber bullies.... That or a heafty kick in the testicles for each one of them.

hay1476d ago

All of them should be ignored until they manage to produce something more creative in the industry than acid and bollocks.

This shit went too far, was blown out of proportion and now people are overreacting instead of doing something productive with their lives.

Death threats lead to up to 10 years in prison, so if it's real, the law enforcement should handle it, not gaming community. This whole thing is a result of few dicks, just ignore them and make their lifes fall into obscurity.

No conflict is worth the energy.

breakpad1476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

from the thumbnail photo and only i get annoyed..this wanna-be developer with sex case should be condemned by the whole gaming community not only by gamergate

PeaSFor1476d ago

as long its real death threats and not faked only to get more attention and publicity, "professional victims" should also be debunked.

its_JEFF1476d ago

@Concertoine Well to be fair Johnny Depp set out to be an actor, to be in films, to become famous. He chose to become a public figure.

All this lady did, if it's the same lady, was make a video game and had sex with other adults. Because her Ex couldn't deal with the fact that he dumped his a** he went and hacker her sh*t and made all this stuff public. Her Ex is the real scumbag, if I was this ladies friend I'd find him and beat his a**.

IDK why her sleeping with someone who works for a site was such a big deal. This kind of stuff happens all the time in the entertainment industry. Nobody bats an eye to Milla Jovovich getting the part in the Resident Evil movies even though her husband is the director. Nobody bats an eye to these politicians who pass laws that benefit big business who after their career in office go on to working for those big businesses. She slept with some guys in the industry... so what? her actions never hurt nobody.

morganfell1476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

Before people dismiss gamergate as some prank by wannabee journalists doing something harmless, remember that unwarranted damning of games leads to the loss of jobs and in certain cases personal money invested in a venture. Losing your life savings and being unable to support your family is a pretty high cost for someone's flippant behavior.

When you step out, declare yourself a journalist and exert influence in the industry, you have assumed a position of responsiblity. When your errant behavior unjustly damages the livelihood of others, it isn't "just a game" anymore. A big part of the issue is several of these offenders like Zoe Quinn think they are still in high school and some of the crap they pulled only means little Katie won't be prom queen. No, just no. You are screwing with people's lives.

Now she wants to paint herself as the victim. Threatening her, as far as the times it really happened and not those she just made up, is wrong. But in the same light this repeatedly proven liar doesn't get to shed a few fake tears and dance away from the damage she and those like her have done.

If you think all Zoe Quinn did was sleep with some people then you have not armed yourself with the facts nor have you read up on the damage done by others involved or related to this mess.

Dee_911475d ago (Edited 1475d ago )

@Concertoine
Preach

Its just lovely how they are still trying portray an entire movement as a few bad individuals.. even after it being continuously refuted, and despite the actions from a majority of the #gamergate condemning doxxing and threats and having absolutely nothing to do with sex or gender for the past month, they are STILL calling us misogynist and trolls that send death threats.They are STILL ignoring points being brought up.
Its also lovely how in the article they say the ex "did not support the "abuse and harrasment" of Ms Quinn"
but failed to mention #gamergate continuously saying the same thing...
I do commend Stephen Totilo for actually some what discussing the situation.

Here's a great article for the anti #gamergate crowd here
http://www.slate.com/articl...

Please educate yourselves.The author made it easy for you to read by continuously 'attacking' #gamergate so you would actually stay interested.Please comprehend that article.

SilentNegotiator1475d ago (Edited 1475d ago )

Environmentalism has people that harass and threaten people, too.

#StopEnvironmentalism

/s

Of course she wants it condemned. People like her are why gamergate exists. If the mainstream media didn't condemn it and pat her on the back, no one would fall for it.

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 1475d ago
TheWackyMan1476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

Just because a handful of people make death threats and harass these people, does NOT discredit what #gamergate is about.

Did you know that you are a woman hating mysoginistc terrorist? I mean these individuals who are harrasing these people are GAMERS, so that must mean that you are also just like them. Another example would be Muslims. Did you know that this terrorist group is full of Muslims? Well that MUST mean all Muslims are terrorists and want to kill the infidels, right?

Stop it, look at what gamergate is about, and I mean REALLY look at it. See what the pro-gg side is saying and make an informed conclusion yourself instead of these people purposefully spreading misinformation.

Anon19741476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

Except no one is saying that all gamers are "woman hating mysoginistc terrorists". That's simply a lie.

If Gamergate was initially about ethics in journalism, it would have ended the moment people figures out that the rant by a bitter ex-boyfriend was completely fabricated and that the journalist in question never reviewed the game in question. And, the journalist would have been the target, not Quinn. Clearly, this wasn't the case.

So Gamergate conveniently ignored the facts that didn't suit their narrative and moved on to something else. To me it seems like a witch hunt, plain and simple. Why else didn't it die when the facts in the ZQ matter came to light? Instead, people just started roaming the countryside with their mob, looking for other targets and, not surprisingly, they found them.

I think it's funny to see GG's talk about "But we raised $$ to prevent bullying!" Try suggesting to them that they donate some of that money to Zoe Quinn, or Anita Sarkeesian, or Brianna Wu...you know, victims of harassment and bullying. They lose their freakin minds. Hypocritical much?

It's also telling that when a bitter, ex-boyfriend goes on a vile rant, spewing intimate details about his partners sex life, people rushed to condemn ZQ and not the douche spewing details about his ex. What kind of bizarro world are we living in when we condemn the attacked and not the attacker?

I'm not saying for a second that people on both sides of this debate haven't acted poorly. Nor am I saying that we shouldn't all demand better from our gaming journalism. What I am saying is GamerGate was started by a lie and it should have ended when that lie was exposed.

Edit: @Concertoine below. That's my point. The mob just moved on to another target when they couldn't get their allegations to stick. It's a witch hunt. You don't want political correctness and "social justice" in your games (which is now what it's suddenly about), vote with your wallet. If I want to make a game that tackles a social issue I'm passionate about, who the hell are you to tell me I can't? Just don't play them.

Concertoine1476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

This isn't even about Quinn at this point. Its about an industry-wide set of issues. Games journalists are finally getting the scrutiny theyve needed for the better half of a decade, and game developers are getting scrutiny they do NOT deserve to try and avoid the real issue.

I and many others don't want social "justice" and political correctness permeating every aspect of our hobby, and would like to smother the beast before it grows.

As far as i'm concerned, any "bullying" towards Sarkeesian is from trolls, yet she takes every chance she can to use this as fuel paint herself as a noble, persistent hero. Any constructive criticism is ignored or blocked. When you come into a field you are unfamiliar with, and start talking crap about its community and creators, you WILL meet some hate. Of course she doesn't deserve death threats and people don't need to make death threats, but that is not representative whatsoever of gamers.

I can already see some immature jeering and insults being thrown in this very comment section, and all i can recommend is for those people to get a grip and stop making the group they represent fit the stereotype Sarkeesian or Quinn likes to project.

TheWackyMan1476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

@darkride66 I'm making the point that people claiming that all gamergate is and the people involved are nothing but mysoginists harassing women. People have been saying this OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

The guy ranting about ex girlfriend Zoe Quinn was certainly NOT "fabricated" or "debunked" but merely denied, and yes the journalist she was dating actually did give zoe quinn favorable coverage without disclosure, this is fact.

So you think that people should just throw money at people because they feel slightly sorry for them for being harassed? The same people that go on national televison multiple times saying that she was fearful for her life from tweets that men and women in the gaming industry get EVERY SINGLE DAY? or you know donate to a CHARITY that could help victims of REAL LIFE ACTUAL ABUSE.

Not to mention that these same people that apparently "hate women" also donated to a game jam to help women make video games.

Anon19741476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

"and yes the journalist she was dating actually did give zoe quinn favorable coverage without disclosure, this is fact."

Any proof of that? Because from what I've seen, he wrote one article that had anything to do with her, it was about a reality show and it predated his relationship with her. Where is proof of these "facts" of which you speak?

And death threats, rape threats, doxing...none of these constitute "actual abuse" in your world? The law would differ with you. Again, it's funny to me and quite telling that some GamerGater's claim to be against harassment but bristle at the very thought of helping those who have been harassed during this whole mess. Thank you for perfectly illustrating my point.

Jdoki1476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

Yes it does discredit it. If any individual - whether they agree with Gamergate or not - has to REALLY look at what it stands for, and to do so wade through news of rape and death threats to get to the beating heart of what Gamergate thinks it stands for then you're probably doing something wrong and are discredited.

If Gamergate had an individual willing to stand up as the face of the campaign, and was promoting more discussion on topics such as ethics etc, then fair enough. And if that individual stood up and denounced the behaviour of the haters, then it may be taken more seriously. But that has not happened with any significant volume. This is mob justice.

At worst Gamergaters comes off as a few people pushing a hateful anti-women agenda, and at best a bunch of people saying 'You can write what you like as long as it doesn't upset me'.

There have been almost zero well balanced and interesting discussions. The whole thing has also come across as very immature and hypocritical. And nothing more than a list of demands.

I'd suggest reading this article for some balanced thought on the issue http://www.popehat.com/2014...

JD_Shadow1476d ago

Look into the facts, though. The time in which the infidelity happened was erred by Gjoni. However, Grayson and Quinn had a friendship at the time Grayson wrote about her Rebel Jam for Kotaku. He definitely did write something on her game while he was at least close friends with her. And he kind of WAS the target. Quinn was more of a subject when she used a DMCA takedown method to remove a MundaneMatt video talking about it, which made people look at some of her morals, which uncovered the issues she created with the FYC and Wizardchan, then things became more complicated once TotalBiscuit said his initial thoughts on the matter. They actually didn't ignore anything.

It didn't completely clear Grayson or Quinn of any wrong doing, & two, there was also those things about Patricia Hernandez, the censoring of people who just wanted to discuss the issue of ethics, the GameJournoPros list that incriminated Ben Kuchera, the "Gamers are over" articles. Did we forget any of those things? And if this wasn't about ethics, then why did Kotaku and Polygon felt compelled to revise their ethics codes? That didn't happen out of nowhere. Neither did any of the issues with Gawker.

The "targets" exposed themselves, as you no doubt would see from my previous paragraph.

They have raised money for charity, which the anti-GG side is trying to get those charities to give the money back to those and other charities like UNICEF.

"Try suggesting to them that they donate some of that money to Zoe Quinn, or Anita Sarkeesian, or Brianna Wu."

So instead of them donating money to actual charities that keep kids from dying, we donate money to those that have moral questions to answer for, & that have been suspected of using the vitriol they are said to have received as an excuse to censor any form of criticism on them. You're using the "weaponizing charity" argument, which has been condemned by TB & others.

You condemn one side's existence for the 1% that are made up by a third party of trolls that are trying to make it tougher, and ignoring the other side in which known, established people call to "bring bullying back", dox people before sending them knives and syringes in the mail, and compare them to the KKK or ISIS. Even when the people within GG had actively brought the man behind the Utah scare to justice and had raised the charity money you're condemning them for raising (which the other side has yet to even try to raise money for).

Research more into what GG is actually doing instead of blindly believing the smear tactics & McCarthy-isque fabrications that those that stand to lose something if GG succeeds are trying to sell to you.

Trust me, they have a vested interest in you buying into the fibs.

Concertoine1476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

@darkride

I admit i am not totally clear on the Quinn issue, and if you went back in my comment history youd see that i found an ex a dubious source, but she has and continues to generalize gamers just like Sarkeesian. And while i could care less about any personal endeavors she has, that assertion is worthy of cross examination. And outside of her purported affairs with journalists, she has most definitely committed much more devious acts in terms of fraud and lying.

The problem with that is many creators WON'T want to do this. A lot of Japanese games might not make it for fear of being scrutinized on a needlessly political level. Look at Tomodachi Life for example. Totally harmless game, released no problem in Japan. As soon as it comes to the US: "Where are the gay marriages! Nintendo is homophobic!"

If i walk into a room with 20 people and generalize them all on a superficial level, it will elicit different reactions. Most will probably ignore me as a lunatic. Maybe 5 people will try and form a legitimate counter point, a few might result to insulting me, and one person will threaten to rip my head off. The world is not black and white, neither is GG.

Blacktric1476d ago

"and that the journalist in question never reviewed the game in question"

Are you actually still using the initial miscommunication about Grayson "reviewing" the game?

This has been re-established over and over and over again. Grayson didn't review the game. He wrote one article on Kotaku praising Depression Quest and another one on Rock Paper Shotgun doing the same, while putting the game in spotlight in both articles and praising it continuously.

And what did people recently discover? Nathan Grayson's name has been attached to DQ since 2013, well before their so called relationship began in April, as Stephen Totillo pointed out.

Do some research. It's not that hard...

donthate1476d ago

darkride66:

I am surprised at your response, simply because you run your own website. By all accounts, you are a typical site that gamer gate is targeting.

That is besides the point, just surprising to me.

Personally, I think both sides has extremists and both sides are correct when they aren't extremists. The problem is, they both have different agendas , yet is somehow lobbed together.

We don't need misogynist behavior nor do we want unethical (amateur) journalism.

In fact, if you stand for only either one of the two sides you are likely a hypocrite!

DragonKnight1476d ago

@darkride666: You really have no idea what you're talking about. Rather than going into a long comment string as to why you're wrong, and seeing as how others already have done so, I'm going to tell you that Zoe Quinn is A)No frickin' developer. She put hyperlinks on a page and grossly oversimplified depression and implied it could be fixed. B)She literally doesn't matter to anyone who supports #GamerGate. She keeps saying she wants out and yet keeps trying to insert herself back in.

I'm so sure she wants to move on.

Anon19741476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

@Blacktric. Can you provide a link to this favorable article written by Grayson during the period he was romantically involved with ZQ? "Do some research."
Yep. Did that. Found an article from Rock Paper Shotgun that mentioned Depression Quest that pre-dated his romantic relationship with ZQ. Can't find this Kotaku article he wrote about Depression Quest of which you speak. As for that fact that they "knew" each other prior to their relationship, you're just moving the goal posts as the facts aren't fitting your narrative. This may come as a shock but people often know each other before becoming romantically linked. And again, the amount of attention on Quinn is completely disproportionate to the amount of attention on Grayson. If this was really initially about ethics in journalism, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know this situation should be reversed.

When you look at both sides of the debate and what they want, it really becomes quite cut and dry. One side is against harassment and misogyny that females involved in our industry deal with on a regular basis. What they want is to shed light on the problem and for the harassment to stop. It's simple, and who can argue with that?

The other side wants the nebulous "ethics in game journalism". Ask twenty different GG's what that means and you'll get twenty different answers, some based on unproven allegations or conspiracy theories, if they can answer you at all.

Which side of this argument seems the most rational to you?

I can't state this strongly enough. I think we deserve better from our gaming journalists than what we've received over the years. But GG is a witch hunt with no clear motives, and real people are having their lives turned upside down for no reason.

@donthate. Just to clarify, I don't run a gaming news site. I did run a gaming news aggregate site quite a number of years ago but it was bought and ultimately closed down (yeah, I don't know why you would buy a site only to close it but that's not my concern). I've been working nearly 4 years now as a mobile game developer after being laid off from my position after a decade in the brokerage industry shortly after the crash in 08.

@DragonKnight. For a woman that doesn't matter to GamerGate, you have to admit they sure do seem fixated on her. Or are we imagining the thousands of tweets and forum thread picking apart her integrity, sex life, trying to discern if she's jewish or not, etc. As for her not being a developer, yeah...that's like saying Michael Bay isn't a film maker because you don't like his work. Don't be obtuse.

Mithan1476d ago

Yes it does, because Gamersgate isn't about anything at the end of the day.

Blacktric1476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

Yes, the Kotaku article Grayson wrote was about the GameJam ZQ sabotaged. And yet it still paints her as innocent and defends her, which is the point here. Still; sorry for the confusion.

"Found an article from Rock Paper Shotgun that mentioned Depression Quest that pre-dated his romantic relationship with ZQ."

The article that called DQ: "standouts: powerful Twine darling Depression Quest" right? The article that was oh so unbiased towards the game, right? And "pre-dating romantic involvement" doesn't mean jack when Depression Quest's code lists Grayson was involved with her as a friend since 2013.

"you're just moving the goal posts as the facts aren't fitting your narrative."

Relationship of any nature, sexual or friendly, still counts as corruption. You moved the goal post when you yourself said; "and that the journalist in question never reviewed the game in question", eventhough that never was the case to begin with.

"One side is against harassment and misogyny that females involved in our industry deal with on a regular basis."

Females as in who? A bunch of thin skinned nobodies that literally nobody knew existed before #GamerGate? Implying that all, or even majority, of females get harassed in the industry is nothing short of a laughable reach. Is that why women like Amy Henning managed to stay in the industry for so long WITHOUT speaking about how they were harassed for so long, even after this whole ZQ/Sarkeesian/Wu bullshit exploded?

"Which side of this argument seems the most rational to you?"

The side that continously condemnds harassment, made over 100k+ in donations to various charities and continues to report any and all forms of harassment being aimed towards both themselves and anti-GamerGate side.

Which one sounds more rational? A people from different ethnic and sexual backgrounds and different tastes dropping all of that and coming together to fight for more ethical journalism standards from websites that have been taking advantage of a basically newborn industry, all the while continuously insulting their viewerbase for the past 6+ years?

Or a bunch of misogynists, again from all colors, genders and sexual backgrounds, trying to "keep all the women in the industry down" by harassing and doxxing them, eventhough facts show otherwise?

I mean really, you people actually fell for Newsweek's "most of the #GamerGate replies to these women were negative!" bullshit, which was proven to be false immediately after released, and expect us to believe in your rationality...

ziggurcat1476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

@darkride666:

"If I want to make a game that tackles a social issue I'm passionate about, who the hell are you to tell me I can't? Just don't play them."

I don't think that there's any real problem with devs including those issues in their games - personally, I thought a game like Papo & Yo (that is all about the dev's abusive father) was brilliant. The issue is journalists injecting social politics into their reviews (and reducing scores based on their political positions) on games that don't even address those issues.

there's a massive difference between when that's the game's intention (like Papo & Yo), and calling a game "sexist" (like Bayonetta 2) because a bunch of "journalists" decided, in a proverbial backroom meeting, that was what they were going to (unnecessarily) focus on, rather than... you know... focus on the actual game, and its story/gameplay/etc... which is really what reviewers should be focusing on if the game isn't addressing any specific social issue.

JD_Shadow1476d ago

You can make whatever game you want to make. A game that I've been touting as a very good indie title is Neverending Nightmares, which I have been recording my play through for my channel. The game is based on the creator's real life struggles with depression, and it has a good bit of psychological horror and scenes in there, and some endings that are effed up.

The issue is that if you make a game, then become friends with the person that is going to cover your game in any way, then that’ll compromise the objectivity that the person should have because they will feel compelled to put you before the consumer that they are trying to inform. If your game isn't any good, and they give it a 10/10, or they tell people to fund the game, or they praise any part of it, then, when a majority of people find the game’s crap, they will look to the person that wrote that review or piece or whatever it was. Not to mention the issues with how it could affect things like Metacritic issues and the like. Either recluse yourself of disclose that information. This is not a hard thing to do to help the consumer make an informed choice.

You keep going back to the "it would've ended with the Gjoni retraction" or whatever you called it, without even addressing any of the other situations that have been brought up in its wake that is in no way related to the Gjoni manifesto (which didn't clear up the actual issue of collusion). The reason it's not ending is because there is even more corruption that was brought up that you have completely ignored for whatever reason you have.

While it is true that there are different ideas on how to achieve the goals and where the problems lie (which should be something that's rather normal in solving issues), the general consensus is that it's to solve an issue that should've been addressed a long time ago. I doubt that you've even talked to anyone that does regular posts and/or work within the GamerGate and/or the NotYourShield hashtag (or even did any actual research on this and just throwing out any red herrings you can on this).

Thing is that you're falling for the trap of believing a narrative that the traditional media wants you to believe. They have seen that the new media (as in, YouTube personalities like TotalBiscuit) have taken readership away from them because people see those like TB and let's players as being more truthful and more unbiased than those in traditional media have been (even though some companies have actively tried to poison that well, too). And, surprise, a good majority of them are in favor in cleaning up journalism, and thus, in favor of GamerGate .

They see a chance with this wedge they have no problem driving into the gaming community with no moral compass. They then, when there is even a hint that it's going back to the original narrative, which means their coziness of their professional positions are not as cozy anymore and they have to actually work to get their readership's trust, run behind the skirts of Wu, Anita, and Quinn, and seemly collude with them to distract the narrative so they don't have to answer any ethics questions.

Make no mistake, they WANT this GamerGate thing to go away without them having to change a thing besides getting gamers back on their side.

And I would challenge you to find one single person who posts in the GamerGate hashtag on a regular basis that engages in vitriol, or sends death threats of any description, that any sane human being would look at it in the same way. If the amount of people using that tag are using it to send those kinds of things on a regular basis, then we have SO much to answer for as a society because we've obviously are in a country full of mass murderers and bigoted people.

Kevlar0091476d ago

Do you have examples on the early days of gamergate? Because it's flown under my radar until now and I have no idea why it started in the first place.

Dee_911475d ago (Edited 1475d ago )

@darkride66

"Except no one is saying that all gamers are "woman hating mysoginistc terrorists". That's simply a lie. "

I'm guessing you missed the plethora of anti gamer articles that stated precisely that? Okay well they didn't say all... they just said most so I guess you have a point /s

"If Gamergate was initially about ethics in journalism, it would have ended the moment people figures out that the rant by a bitter ex-boyfriend was completely fabricated .... "

Completely fabricated ? since when ? Is this one of those "since its been denied by the party in question therefore it is debunked " things that's going on with wikipedia right now?

Its been stated literally hundreds of times how that situation opened up a can of worms for gaming journalism. I guess since he didn't actually review her game, everything everyone brought into question afterwards is automatically invalid huh? I mean, despite the fact him reviewing articles favoring her and writing articles favoring her ( have you heard Stephen's reasoning for not thinking their relation was of conflict with that article dude wrote about her? can you say horse blinders?) was only part of the accusation.The part most people seems to forget was the accusation of strings being pulled behind scenes..
You act as if we don't want to be proven wrong.. When they prove us wrong it is a good thing.When they ignore us it is a bad thing..But it seems that you believe the notion I stated earlier.. that if one thing is proven inaccurate, everything else is also inaccurate.. I hope you see the wrong in that.

"I think it's funny to see GG's talk about "But we raised $$ to prevent bullying!" Try suggesting to them that they donate some of that money to Zoe Quinn, or Anita Sarkeesian, or Brianna Wu...you know, victims of harassment and bullying. They lose their freakin minds. Hypocritical much? "

Haha you got them there, such hypocrites, not wanting to give their money to professional victims ! good catch bro! I mean who cares that they classify all critiques and concerns and opposition as harassment and bullying? Who cares that anita posted her kickstarter minutes after posting her "threats"? Who cares that they label an entire group as the bad seeds? who cares how freaking hypocritical that is ? Surely not you..

"It's also telling that when a bitter, ex-boyfriend goes on a vile rant, spewing intimate details about his partners sex life, ..."

Oh my what selective memory we have here.Considering I read the ex's post day one and saw actual live reaction to it both here and over twitter and various gaming sites, you clearly have selective memory or have no idea what you are talking about, there where articles everywhere condemning him.. hell there are still articles doing it.. So its actually not selective memory.. its seeing what you want to see.It was pretty much wide spread hatred for both parties amigo! Who would've thought, an unfaithful manipulative girlfriend and an disgruntled ex boyfriend would generate soooo much attention..

"That's my point. The mob just moved on to another target when they couldn't get their allegations to stick"
... riiight it didn't "stick". more like denied despite quite a bit of evidence..Allegations doesn't just disappear when new allegations show up .. whats with this whole its only enough room for 1 accusation things you're doing.

+ Show (15) more repliesLast reply 1475d ago
Qrphe1476d ago

>is unbalanced and needs to unplug the PC/console/tablet
>tablet

I honestly don't care what political rhetoric you're spouting but your implication of serious gaming donein these things actually got to me

gamey1476d ago

I think his point wasn't that playing any specific game causes violence, vitriol, etc., rather that if you're sending deathreats, spouting hateful vitriol, doxxing because of games in general, that you should unplug and step away for a bit. Just a statement regarding normal human perspective. Not "political rhetoric". Although that does make it sound awfully cool and nefarious.

r1sh121476d ago

Im not gonna lie its pretty awful people go through this.
But look at this objectively, she was actually afraid for her life, thats surely a lot of stress.

The people sending the death threats probably dont even leave their house anyway.

Her ex is to blame too, he probably knew the madness that would follow.

Its peak

rdgneoz31476d ago

Her ex was clarifying her lies and cover ups. You make your bed and sleep in it. She banged press for good publicity and her boss (who is/was married) probably for a raise. A few nut jobs don't discredit the whole movement. And you have the other crazy woman make threats against herself and trying to play victim...

LightofDarkness1476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

"She banged press for good publicity and her boss (who is/was married) probably for a raise"

Misogyny via slut-shaming, and half of you can't even perceive it you're so blind to it. This is the biggest problem with #GamerGate: the inability to understand what you're doing is wrong in any way. It's verges on sociopathy with an inordinate number of those who support #GamerGate, a worrying amount. It is so ingrained that it is considered normal, logical thought and morally acceptable. What went on between her and her boss is none of your business. She does not work in public office and is not beholden unto the whims of what you find morally objectionable, and YOU cannot press charges against her for doing it. These are details of her private life, and her boss'. I also like how the fault of everything rests solely on the shoulders of "the slut." As if these men were powerless to stop themselves. As if they did not perhaps have a greater responsibility than her in safe-guarding their principles. She may not sound like someone who's like to be your best friend, but she is not a criminal, and she does not deserve an internet hate campaign over, and I can't stress this enough, A F***ING VIDEOGAME. Get your priorities in life straight.

Legend1476d ago

^You don't know what a conflict of interest is, do you?

ShadowWolf7121476d ago

@LightofDarkness

"Misogyny via slut-shaming"

Uh, no. That's what happened. She cheated with her boss. And, according to her OWN STANDARDS: she is a rapist. She said, HER personal belief, that if one has sex with someone else while in a relationship, and then engage in intercourse with their partner without their partner knowing of it, she considered that rape. Frankly, that's not even holding her to her own standards, she gets off easy there.

But again, this isn't even about the methods used, but what she was doing: cashing in on relationships, friendly or otherwise, for favors or coverage. That is a violation of journalistic ethics. That is something that should be disclosed to the reader; if I read a 10/10 review, but then learn the reviewer's best buddy made the game, I'd be a lot more skeptical before spending my money and make sure to get an opinion from someone not affiliated to make sure there was no bias. But since they don't disclose these things, then that is unethical.

I mean, they also donate to the patreons of one another, they dox and harass the people they don't like, they even doxxed and bashed a charity meant to HELP women make games because... they didn't like how they were doing it, somehow. Then, on top of it, raised hell and called them misogynists just because many of their donations came from a certain source that they relied on being seen as sexist for their victim complex sympathy ploys to work.

supermintendo1476d ago

I've been following gamergate off and on since it started, zoe even tweeted me that i was terrible person for commenting on the issue. to say she was actually afraid for her life might be a big stretch, posting a play by play on twitter, especially "the hacking going down on 4chan" live from a bar doesn't exactly scream afraid.

ChickeyCantor1475d ago

"Misogyny via slut-shaming,"

It's not even about ZQ. Good for her she is banging 100 guys. Christ, I like to bang a lot too. NO ONE CARES. What people do care about is fair conduct in the industry. The point people try to make with ZQ is that it has become a "scratch my back, i'll scratch your back" business. And there is a plethora of evidence out there.

But the moment you disagree "Misogyny". Pathetic.

Dee_911475d ago (Edited 1475d ago )

@LightofDarkness So if its slut-shaming, you are saying she shouldn't feel guilty or bad about cheating on her boyfriend with a married man? I was under the impression that slut-shaming was more so aimed towards promiscuous women/men not actually in relationships.. but okay.. twist that definition to how you see fit.Its really weird how a lot feminist love to do this whole 'this is worst than that, so this is justified' thing.Yea slut shaming is indeed a no-no and should stop because a women's body is her property and she is as free to be a loose or celibate as she wants, however cheating on your boy friend is also a no no.You excusing her of that then talking about morals and logic is very ironic to say the least.Zoe quinn is a very public figure so when what she and her boss does in private is exposed and shows a conflict of interest with her and his consumers it is indeed of public business.Let me ask you this simple question.What if it was exposed that she is giving her boss money instead of having sex with her boss, do you think this would have gotten the same response?

"I also like how the fault of everything rests solely on the shoulders of "the slut." As if these men were powerless to stop themselves"
Who what when where and who said that? The married boss is scum, the guy that continued that relationship with her despite knowing she was in a relationship is a pig and that has been the general census. Unfortunately for quinn she left more evidence of conflict of interest and comradery amongst indie devs and journalist than the guys she cheated with.
You're right, she doesn't deserve the hate, but she does need to answer questions instead hiding behind her threats, along with all of the other individuals involved.And its pretty disrespectful that you are still belittling a movement with valid concern rather you care about them or not to a hate group centered around an individual.

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user95970821476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

The fact that you've got so many more disagrees than agrees for this says a lot about the members of this community.

Despite playing several hours of games a day, I refuse to call myself a gamer anymore because I'm ashamed of becoming associated with the people that perpetuate all this hate and immaturity that plagues the industry.

I'm all for what GamergGate was supposed to stand for but that's not what it seems to be pushing anymore.

IcarusOne1476d ago

Agree 100%. Gamergate was a chance for us to demand a real code of journalistic ethics, a credo from the community, but it was co-opted by sexists and misogynists, the age old cry of oppression from the white males club that feels threatened whenever a minority group speaks up and asks for a little inclusion. All these women want is for games to stop treating their gender as mere eye candy and sex pots. Watch how the little boys shriek when you suggest taking away their Barbies.

More Amanda Ripleys, less Bayonettas.

garos821476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

im a gamer and i will scream it from the top of my lungs.

You ashamed of calling yourself a gamer cause what the anti's paint our image to the media. They love to label us as misogynistic , nazis members of ISIS etc and you fell for it. Well f*ck them.

Shame on them for declaring gamers dead and shame on them for endorsing bullying of "geeks basement dwellers and Virgins". The Sarkeesians, Wu's and Quinns want the spotlight on themselves to further themselves as the victims of this gamergate movement and continue to profit by garnering support to their cause. GamerGate is not about these 3 women no matter how much they try to make it out to be.

I support women in gaming, i support women developing gaming and i will support anyone from any background making gaming (including the Helghan Scum).

Not too long ago this very website was posting articles of Corrinne Yu , Amy Henig, Roberta Williams and other influential female developers who have made their mark on the industry.
There wasn't people calling for their heads and sending death/rape threats at them then. All these f**ks sending them now are just disgusting f*ckwits and deserve to be persecuted by law. But don't you dare lump all the others who are pro GG together under the same titles we have been called for a few bad apples.

rainslacker1476d ago

Why would you be ashamed to call yourself a gamer because of a minority of trolls on the internet? Is it because gamers have come under attack from a narrative that paints all gamers as sociopaths with no redeeming qualities?

Truth is, your hesitation to call yourself a gamer plays right into their narrative. You yourself know for a fact that you do not conform to their idea of what gamers are, yet you accept it as truth. Why is that? Because of the ratio of agrees to disagrees on an internet forum where the topic is very divisive?

I have pride in a lot of things in my life, and I am not ashamed of the things I do. I know I'm a good person. I don't believe in judging others based on stereotypes. I am also a gamer, and know that I am not anything like what many anti-GG say I am. In fact, I believe in social justice as much as many of them do. I believe in respecting others. I believe in ethical journalism. I don't feel my affiliation with GG in any way makes me unable to believe in equal representation of all within gaming. So why should I, or you if you feel the same, have anything to be ashamed of?

garrettbobbyferguson1476d ago

"Less bayonettas"

More Bayonettas. Don't you dare talk shit about her. A woman character that is sexy, flaunts it, owns it, and then rubs your face in it with her boot.

user95970821476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

As I said, I support what gamergate was supposed to be but I don't see how it in any way represents that anymore. You have to wade too deep through the shit to find the good. I say leave gamergate to the ass holes and the people who really care about ethics in game journalism should separate themselves from gg and start their own thing.

As for not wanting to call myself a gamer, it's nothing to do with the news or media. It's because of what I read here in the community and on reddit and in so many other game forums that make me not want to. so many people say so many awful things and are incapable of respecting other people or their opinions. so many gamers act so immaturely under the blanket of Internet anonymity.
Not everyone is like this obviously but it's most of what I see whenever I read the comments or play an online game and listen to the voice chat.
I just don't want to be associated with those people.

ChickeyCantor1475d ago

"less Bayonettas."

Dunno I feel like a Bayonetta 3 comming too. Thank jesus chrisna for Nintendo supporting Bayo2.

Can't wait for more delicious angel beating action.

CaptainObvious8781475d ago

Are you trying to be deliberately stupid?

The only hate I see is coming from the anti GGers. Their constant harassment and lies against people that just want to see the standards raised in gaming journalism is appalling.

If you did 5 minutes of critical research you would know what GG really stands for. If you don't have the ability to think for yourself and just blindly follow what the established media is telling you, than that's your problem. I'm not ashamed to call myself a gamer and I'm sure as hell not ashamed to call myself a GG because I stand for ethical journalism and condemn harassment.

Dee_911475d ago (Edited 1475d ago )

@Shinymasonite
Yea, yea totally bro, you should disassociate with your race too because I am sure a lot of them have done horrible things...
Please disassociate yourself..One less irrational thinking person in the gaming community.

"You have to wade too deep through the shit to find the good"

WOOOOW he really just said that.. you basically just said I am too lazy to actually read... Now i'm not sure if trolling..The moment I type in #gamergate on google or bing or even yahoo literally a majority of the sites are what #gamergate is about.If you're too lazy to read and watch a few videos then you good riddance... But your avy is too awesome so I take that back

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 1475d ago
annoyedgamer1476d ago

So do movie geeks need to unplug their computer because they send death threats to reviewers who give their favorite film a low score?

What about animal rights activists sending mass death threats to an 11-year old boy who bagged an albino dear?

LightofDarkness1476d ago

How about you provide numbers or factual instances of your anecdotal evidence and we'll consider it a point in any way?

Or how either of those cases amassed a hashtag worthy internet hate campaign focused on these individuals that required major media attention?

iDadio1476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

What strikes me is that she managed to have "relations" with two men.

gamey1475d ago (Edited 1475d ago )

One issue at a time, please! Also, are you really concerned about those two cases? I bet you could find support for pursuing the guilty parties. Wait a second...You just wanted to derail this argument by citing vaguely related anecdotes? Does that even make sense to you? It shouldn't. You just made a logical fallacy called Red-Herring-reductio-ad-absurd um-Reverse No-True-Scotsman. Well. One of those is the real one. Are you really defending people's rights to make death threats? You sure got a lot of weird "agrees" for this one.

gerbwmu1475d ago

"So do movie geeks", The answer is yes, they should unplug their computers. If you ever make a death threat to anyone and are not willing to stand up in public and take ownership of that threat then you have issues. If I'm threatening harm or death there will be enough justification in my mind that all the world will know I'm after you, for example if a person abused my children.

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Toon_Link1476d ago (Edited 1476d ago )

People just need to be more mature. There's lots of valid points in gamer gate but the crazies are really not helping out the cause.

uth111476d ago

Gamergate keeps growing because they keep getting attacked. First from their own gaming press, then they are being smeared as misogynists, rapists. More than one journalists have called for gamers/nerds to be be bullied! The majority of news stories only tell the other side. Gamers are learning that neither political stripe has their back and they are banding together for that reason.

Gamergate is actually very much against harassment and actually has an anti-harassment squad that reports harassment against both sides, to help remove doxxings etc as quickly as possible. You never see the press talk about that!

And death threats happen on both sides, and to both men and women, but the press never reports that either.

My prediction is GG will continue to grow until both sides are fairly reported and the smears stop.

OB1Biker1476d ago

Yea I do hope everyone begins to grow up and stop swallowing whatever they read in the media without questioning anything.
Now I agree the whole gaming community is rather appalling on the internet but I think its another problem

asadachi1476d ago

I agree bullying should not be condoned in any way, however, I think there is a deeper issue at hand here. Why is Zoe condemning all gamers instead of citing examples and targeting those that threatened her? I think the truth is she is using the attention to rally support behind her ideas.

3-4-51476d ago

Two issues being manipulated into one.

Anna Sark was on Colbert Report last night for crying out loud.

I TOLD YOU ALL they had backing from "higher up", and support from people with power.

* Two issues: Trolls are trash and should be dealt with individually.

* Game journalism & ALL MEDIA are a bunch of non-ethical liars.

I don't really trust any media any more.

They all say A, and go and do B.

Or they will state at A....and call it B.

They KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING...

And they are being allowed to get away with it.

* Internet Trolls are scrum and I feel bad for these MEN & WOMEN getting harassed online.

Those people doing the trolling don't represent anybody but themselves.

* Why don't you guys pick a new name for the GamerGate stuff..

Let them end the GG Bullcrap and start a new movement that is STRICTLY ONLY ABOUT CORUPT JOURNALISM.

They don't get to take over your movements just because they bully you around.

* These Journalists are turning into the trolls and the bullies and that is a HUGE problem.

* There is truth on both sides of GG & anit-GG, but it's all being CONFUSED ON PURPOSE.

It's easier to manipulate people when they are confused.

How do you do that?

You mix in 10-20% truth with 80% false or some kind of combination.

That way people on both sides think they are right....and well some kind of are, but only on a certain level.

* GamerGate is being used like Pawn.

* Anit-GamerGate is being used like Pawn.

Who is really behind all of this though ?

Who has the connections to have these articles thrown on yahoo and put anna sark on Colbert Report.

That doesn't " JUST HAPPEN".....

Somebody with power is pushing this....

geddesmond1476d ago

Yeah it's a very sad day when a community that has been judged for years by non gamers for supposedly having no lives, being nerds, having no girlfriends and still living at home with their moms when thats not the case for most. Starts a bullying campaign against a woman to the point of a nervous breakdown over rumors they have no business about.

These people are not human beings. The is only two things I hate in life. Bullies and males who hurt women in any way. So just imagine what I would do to one of these gamer gate people if I found out they were my neighbour or lived in my area.

King-u-mad1476d ago

"The is only two things I hate in life. Bullies and males who hurt women in any way."

I'd hurt any woman if deemed necessary... so you would hate me for that? lol that is priceless. You are a weak being imho if that's what you truly feel.

Fucking hate people who view woman as perfect beings that can do no wrong. Woman's shit stinks just like ANYONE else's...

In this bitches case, I could care less what happened in it's entirety all i know is her game that for some odd reason gained popularity was rubbish and pointless to the gaming community.

"So just imagine what I would do to one of these gamer gate people if I found out they were my neighbour or lived in my area."

Highly doubt you would do anything...

How about you come off of your captain save a hoe bullshit and realize the world isn't so black and white. There are many variables that could and probably have happened. Therefor no one really has any reason to feel or say anything about it.

vega2751475d ago

@ king

I totally agree with your post. I dont condone bullying. But I also believe in defending myself and that also goes for women putting their hands on me in a violent nature for whatever reason. Dont hit me, I wont hit you back harder.

I support gamergate for what it is. Not those people harassing and sending death threats. But it seems like the anti-GG group wants to derail the real issues but highlighting a few bad apples.

insomnium21475d ago

Holy shite you are dangerously s****d. Literally!

So women are these magical beings who you can never hurt in any way shape or form no matter what? I'm sorry but this has "virgin" written all over it.

You should try and get in touch with real life girls and see that they really are just normal human beings who poo, curse and are annoying just like men are/do. No magic whatsoever.

geddesmond1475d ago (Edited 1475d ago )

@King u mad

A male who hits women is a coward just like a bully is a coward. I'm weak because I hate those that prey on the weak. LMAO, ok sure.

Highly doubt I would do something lol for all you know I could be a little angle that never hurt anyone and always does what hes told or I could have been a complete terror who was in loads of fights, been stabbed a few times and have the scars to prove it or I could be something in between. Point is who would know? Certainly not you. Just like none of these gamer gate fools know anything real about this Zoe Quinn woman.

Oh right so review scores are so important to a bunch of no life nerds because they are so fecking dumb that they can't make up their own minds about a game. If her game is crap then why would these people give a fuck about it or its score. If something Is crap to me then thats it, leaves my mind never to return again.

A bunch of fools with pitch forks chasing after Frankenstein in an imaginary online gang they joined just so they could feel like they belong somewhere.

@Insomnium

Yeah thats exactly what I said. I then love how you play the virgin card LMAO

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ThatOneGuyThere1476d ago

"and most game developerss are well over 40+," got any data for that? as thats not really what im seeing from the inside..

King-u-mad1476d ago

This chick is the ultimate of ultimate losers... why do they even report about her. She's pointless in the gaming community.