Memory limitation is PS3's 'biggest challenge'

The PS3's 256MB of memory, half that of the Xbox 360, is the biggest challenge developers face when making games on Sony's console, Monster Madness producer Lee Perez has told VideoGamer.com.

Perez, who has worked closely on the development of Monster Madness and upcoming DS game Ninja Town, said that while the PS3 has half the memory of the 360, its Cell processor can in theory allow developers to "offset" those problems.

Speaking specifically about the unique challenges PS3 development presents, Perez said: "The biggest thing is the memory. The PS3 only has 256 megs of memory. The 360 has 512 so you have twice the memory when you load a level. Now the offset to that is the Cell processor, so if you understand and your engine can understand how to use the multiple cores in tandem you can offset that. Theoretically you can do a lot more, especially if you have a lot of physics objects because it's very math intensive, not memory intensive. So finding that sweet spot where your game does well in both and it takes advantage of its individual skills is tough."

[jamesrocks3147]

Memory:
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz

thats 512MB actually my god

[SickNick85]

Quote...256 system and 256 video are really better than 512 MB general and equal to ps3 video...the same difference between a PC and a laptop...

in case of necessity ps3 can take part of video memory to use for system by SPE (if a programmer can't use the spe it's a problem)...the only problem is the operative system (90mb on ps3 and 32 on 360)...but ram is better on ps3...no dubt on it...

[Statix]

I'm STILL reading through the article, trying to find any evidence that these guys realize that the PS3 has 512 mb of total memory, not half of 360 like they're saying. Whenever I start to read something like this, where it looks like someone got this obvious fact wrong again, I really try to give them the benefit of the doubt. But they fail me every time.

Not only that, but you see flagrant signs everywhere in that article that this guy has absolutely NO CLUE what he's talking about (stating that the 360 has "temporary cache" versus the "permanent cache" of the PS3, or that the supposed double memory of the 360 "improves the framerate"). This guy sounds like a misinformed, nontechnical fanboy rather than a real, legitimate game developer, period. Either he's a fraud, and/or the game "Monster Madness" is fake, because I've never heard of it.

Haha, wouldn't it be funny if the developers of this Monster Madness never realized the PS3 had 512 megs of memory, and only utilized 256 megs of it throughout the entire course of the game's development? Far-fetched, I know, but I would laugh my ASS off.

[CrashSharc]

almost 2 years, and people still don't know that the PS3 has the same amount of ram (except the ram in the PS3 is actually FASTER) as the 360? Pathetic. The internet really has given a voice to many who don't deserve one.

[edhe]

"The internet really has given a voice to many who don't deserve one. "

And there you have it, fanbois in a nutshell.

[theKiller]

256MB of memory is PS3's bla bla bla!!!
just look at MGS4 and uncharted and tell me who has more challenge ps3 or 360????

the author of this article is a real looser!!

[Vip3r]

I think Sony reduced the OS down to 46mb on RAM usage in a FW update a while ago.

[season007]

he obviously isn't smart enough to code a complex system and so he is just refer to the 256mb GDDR3 ram that he actually uses as the limitation he faces....

on the other side anyone wonder these article, sometimes they do mention the other 256mb memory for PS3 aside the GDDR3, but they never mention the MUCH FASTER SPEED of it?

[addic]

"Haha, wouldn't it be funny if the developers of this Monster Madness never realized the PS3 had 512 megs of memory, and only utilized 256 megs of it throughout the entire course of the game's development? Far-fetched, I know, but I would laugh my ASS off."

exactly the same i thought! god!!! please let it be true! i hope these morons didnt know that the ps3 had 512mb ram! i would piss myself laughing like i never did before! THAT would be soooo awesome! ;)

[Lifendz]

Yeah, I don't care. When I look at Uncharted, Resistance 2, Metal Gear, Killzone 2, LBP, and all the other jaw dropping games to come these sorts of articles mean less and less. You can't figure out the PS3? Can't get around the 256mb for the GPU? Fine. Step off. Do a "valve" type move. As long as I have the Sony in-house games, Insomniac, Konami, and Square I'm good.

[killer_trap]

I'm with killer here, action speaks louder than words. and i haven't seen anything on the 360 that matches the MGS, uncharted and GT5P combo.

and viper is right. sony has lowered the OS footprint to 40something MB with their firmware releases.

[juuken]

Um...the same people who approves bullsh*tting articles every day?

[JsonHenry]

This is ecactly what i have been saying since day one. They should have unified the memory, or just given the PS3 a little extra system RAM.

And to everyone that says that the 360 and the PS3 have the same amount of memory you are wrong. The 360 has 10megs of EDRAM on top of that number. And even if it didn't the difference in the way the two systems write to and read from RAM is what makes the difference.

But if someone was really being honest - BOTH consoles suffer from lack of system RAM. Not just the PS3. It just happens the PS3 is not reaching its full potential because it is being bottlenecked due to lack of system RAM.

[SaiyanFury]

The PS3's amount of physical RAM is limited I admit openly. The system does not have DDR3 RAM as many people believe. The PS3 has 256MB of Rambus XDR DRAM that is designed for very high CPU/GPU interface speeds. The interface speeds I've cited are absolutely insane when compared to regular DDR-type RAM.

Of course, what that "Update" above is talking about is the PS3's GPU memory, not the actual system memory.

If you're interested in reading up on the PS3's internal memory, please click the link below.

http://www.rambus.com/us/pr...

[DJ]

The PS3 runs off of 3.2Ghz RAM for its CPU, which is much faster than the 700Mhz GPU RAM used for the 360's CPU (bad decision by MS). Unifying the memory is actually horrible for performance because either the CPU becomes starved, or the GPU becomes starved. And both end up eating into each other's bandwidth.

Unified Memory Architecture is used in low-end PCs, Xbox, and Xbox 360 because it costs less to manufacture than Dedicated Memory Architecture, i.e. what high-end PCs and the PS3 use. Also, the 10MB ED-RAM chip doesn't make a difference in overall RAM storage since it only does Anti-aliasing and framebuffer functions. If Microsoft had put in 32MB of ED-RAM for such functionality, Xenos would actually have a HUGE advantage over RSX since RSX does all of this in GDDR3 memory.

*32MB is the size needed for 1080p frames with 4x Anti-aliasing.

[jaysquared]

When did N4G become a hang out for intelligent people like game developers and computer engineers? I thought it was just full of fanboys who don't have nothing better to do..

[lsujester]

Just because people can copy and paste speed numbers, that doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. And I'm talking about these comments, not the author of the article.

What the author said makes a lot of sense, but how he said it makes him look kind of dumb.

If you look at the performance charts of the 360 and PS3, you'll see that the RAM bandwidths are actually very similar, even with the huge difference in clock speed. Here is why:

XDR transfers 8 bits per clock. So at 3.2Ghz, it transfers 8x3.2Ghz = 25.6Gb/s.

GDDR3 is clocked at much lower 700MHz, BUT it is 64 bits wide, and so, delivering 11.2 Gb/s bandwidth per channel. The two channels in the 360 gives us 22.4Gb/s.

So, you see, the XDR inside the PS3 doesn't give it much of a performance boost, and even with the little it has, is irrelevant when it comes to graphics, because the GPU can't touch it.

The PS3 memory IS limited when you think of it in computer part needs. Games are much more graphically-intensive than they are CPU-intensive. This means that the GPU will need more memory than the CPU does, and therefore having 512 divided amongst the two is actually beneficial because of the bonus of the GPU being able to use a higher percentage of the RAM.

[ThanatosDMC]

If they're the same or on par with each other, how come we havent seen a game even close to Uncharted or MGS4?

GT5P = looks nice and all but i wouldnt touch it cuz i hate racing games

[potenquatro]

I own THREE laptops, all of them have dedicated memory for the GPU, not shared. Idk where you see "... the same difrence between PC and laptop..."

[STARS]

InB4FlameWar.

[Condoleezza Rice]

Ps3=512 memory.One look at MGS4 will confirm this.

[The Lazy One]

you so did not get in before the flame war :-p

[player911]

The PS3 ONLY has 256mb memory. It also has a graphics card with 256mb memory. You can't combine the two and say, the PS3 has 512mb. Thats ridiculous.

Thats like saying my PC has 1gb RAM and a 756mb RAM Graphics card = 1.756Gb.

The PC is the PC and the graphics card is the graphics card.

The 360 is shared memory, so its graphics card can have full access to the memory during gameplay. The OS can also have full access to all 512mb when in menu's, upconverting DVD's, etc.

People always "assume" shared memory is bad and compare to laptops which is not a good comparison here. Laptops suck because their video cards are weak. You can't put 2gb RAM on Matrox video card and expect it to perform. Also what ram is shared is SYSTEM ram... which is typically DDR or DDR2. Normal video card ram is much faster, DDR3 and XDR. So laptops sharing their SLOW SLOW system ram between memory hungry Windows and a "graphics card" is not how a 360 works.

First off the Xbox's OS has a tiny footprint compared to a full blown install of XP/Vista. The memory isn't cheap value ram like your laptops either. And the video card isn't a budget value $35 video card.

Most of the work while playing games is done directly on the graphics card. So the GPU having access to 512mb allows for much larger textures. The fact the memory is shared allows each the GPU and CPU to access the memory directly for faster access instead of having to make requests for files be sent to them.

[m9105826]

Actually, the 256 allotted to the GPU can be used for CPU purposed, and vice-versa. Not to mention that each core of the Cell has it's own memory store + its cache. It takes clever programming, but if you have a good programmer is pretty simple to pull off.

[cellypower]

4 words Medal Gear Solid four.

[ThaGeNeCySt]

that's 3 words (one of them being wrong) and a number!!!

j/p

[Dark_Vendetta]

The hardware does not make a game good, it's the developer. And as you've said it: MGS is IMO not the best looking game but it's still the best this year (once again IMO). So who cares if there are 256mb or 512mb ram as long as there are good games

[LONEWOLF231]

I agree, but worry not ill fix it for you!!!

METAL GEAR SOLID FOUR!!!!! :)

[jdoggystyyle]

medal???

[xhairs]

Can you tell me what the best looking game is? And also, can we leave out GTA4 due to graphical defects because although it make look good it's got its massive share of problems.

[caffman]

medal gear solid 4 (from the makers of metal of honour!)

[vic_doom]

lmao bubbles 4 u

[Dark_Vendetta]

I'm far more impressed with Uncharted (by the graphic not gameplay)

[ASSASSYN 36o]

Idiot.

[xhairs]

I can reason with that, but I would say that both are practically equal. I'm glad you didn't post something stupid though thanks.

[gogators]

It's a noun, adjective, and pronoun with several definitions; including the definition for the number 4. As Metal Gear Solid 4 is generally written that would be 3 words and a number, but writing it as Metal Gear Solid Four that would be four words.

[LONEWOLF231]

I got 2 disagrees and a bubble taken off for that reply.....NICE!!!

I think its about time i start handing out negative feed backs as well!

[Silverwolf]

Something must have been taken out of context in this interview. EVERYBODY knows how much memory the PS3 has.

[Chubear]

Articles like this just seem so lame and illinformed it's almost laughable but I find it disgusting how editorial gaming sites have turned the gaming media into cheap & pathetic tabloid type journalism.

Writing up any type of drible for the sole purpose of getting traffic to their respective websites. It's sad how the gaming media have lowered themselves to this level in what seems like over night.

[v1c1ous]

ready...set...

[ThanatosDMC]

GO!!!

Wait, i thought e-penis is for the HDTVs??? Personally, im jealous of those people that play their PS3s on a Sony Bravia with 120Hz...

[doshey]

Memory:
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz

thats 512MB actually my god

[Pain]

use Cell/Rsx problem solved.

Fact Xbox NEEDS that 512 ram, Its the ONLY thing keeping the 360 on the level with PS3's 256 and PC's 512+.

Fact epic made M$ up 360's ram or gears would have looked crap. so bla

RFOM, MGS4,Drakes,Lair ect prove 512 is NOT a prob when u make ON and with PS3 only in mind.

its more ore less only a Problem when u port to ps3 from 360 BUT!!!!!! if it was the other way like devs has said 'Make on Ps3 first' then itrs mute.

We all going to hear the Opposite for 360 when devs use up more Blu-ray disc space and say " XBOX 2's main problem is its Disc space and HDD bla bla bla dvd 9 limitations. like FORZA's 2 discs lol and last forza space issue,.

just make on PS3 and forget Holdback Yanky Station 2

[Kleptic]

typical...this ignorance simply won't go away...how did this get approved?...

the PS3's RSX GPU has a dedicated bank of 256mb's of GDDR3...The RSX is also able to use some of the 256mb's of XDR ram that the Cell uses...

the system has a combined Ram total of 512mb's...JUST LIKE THE 360...the 360 has slower ram for the CPU, but the CPU is able to share some of the GPU's ram...the PS3 only shares ram towards the GPU...not the CPU...

the only thing ram wise where the 360 accels is in terms of OS footprints...the PS3 still has nearly double the OS footprint over the 360 (which is 32megs)...

this should be pulled down...this information is regularly available everywhere...

[Kleptic]

to any idiots that disagree:

http://www.anandtech.com/vi...

[REDZEV]

You obviously dont know anything about Gpu architecture and memory do you??? but hey, you know your addition you know how to add to 512. maybe if you cluster like 4 Ps3's you will have 2048Mb of memory then you would have a super PS3??? Whadda Moron!!! you guys will always be in denial of the PS3'S limitations till the end. long live Sony!!!

[Kleptic]

^I have no idea what you just tried to say...

[unjust]

Second your wrong you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Fishy Fingers]

muhahaha.... Misinformed piece of s***. Author should hang his empty head in shame.

[chidj2]

MGS4 only 2 Cell SPEs

Uncharted only 1 cell SPEs

FFXlll 4 SPEs (for real time render)

KIllzone 2 4 SPEs (for real time render)

so cell have a lot o fu!@#!@!$#!#$#!!!!! powaaaa

i saw this in neogaf

[Isaac]

MGS4 probably uses most of the SPEs, don't believe everything you read.

[Dark_Vendetta]

Kojima already told us that the CPU was the restriction to what he wanted to create. But he is still pleased with the game.
There will be way better looking games in the future (Killzone for example) but it depends on your code. The Cell can manage more but it's not like we'll see 7x better graphics than in Uncharted (because there are 7 SPEs + 1 locked (=8) for the system)

[ThanatosDMC]

Wow, didnt know that... I lost a lot of rations watching Raiden and Vamp kill each other while Snake fought Gekkos... THAT WAS DROOL WORTHY!!!

Also, finger pistols of Liquid vs the United States army!!!

[Masta_fro]

post a !!Spoiler Alert!!! you Son of a...

[Muzzle Flash]

Kojima said the cell engine was the issue, not the cell itself, or ps3, or anything, he basically said the engine for the cell wasn't as up to snuff as he had hoped, and in another interview, he said his interview was taken out of context and he basically said he had unrealistic expectations for the ps3 and said he might never do a western *American* review because people took it out off context...

Engine does not equate to cell itself, basically, the engine at its current state and point does not meet his unrealistic expectations, which he admitted he had.The engine, like the unreal engine and many others, can be updated and altered, etc... so that means nothing....

[Truplaya]

Its not our problem, its the game developers problem. As long as they keep making great games why do we care?

[cliffbo]

change that headline! even if the question put to him was edited to make it appear he said there was only 256mb of memory, this headline makes it appear that the PS3 has (definitely) only got 265mb... come on, make the headline reflect the uninformed article, not the other way around

[aaquib5]

Ps3's hard to develop for, but if your not a complete idiot(I'm lookin at you, EA), then you can get extremely powerful results.

[Topshelfcheese]

You do know that Burnout, Battlefield: Bad Company, etc are from internal EA studios, and they look and run great on the PS3.

[aaquib5]

Wrong. Burnout is developed by Criterion, and Battlefield: Bad company is developed by Digital Illusions CE. EA is responsible for those remade sports games every year that they just can't innovate on.

[shine1396]

ever heard a burnout paradise 'criterion' podcast? they've talked all about why they agreed to be bought by EA a while ago.

[Silverwolf]

Ok after seeing a few reviews (to determine the developers talent & credibility) I can see where a mediocre developer can over look the remaining 256MB.

Review score from IGN: Monster Madness: Battle for Suburbia Action 4.8 Jun 19, 2007

[Isaac]

It is 512MB, not 256MB. The only problem is that it is split, which makes game development harder, but that's what consoles are for, squeezing power, not being as developer friendly as PCs, because in the end you only have a single hardware configuration, not dozens of specifications.

RSX is streamlined, RAM is streamlined and Cell is streamlined, i.e. made to have the most horsepower taking in mind that the developer is actually skilled, whereas on the 360 it is the other way around. That is why you see such sh1tty ports from EA, perhaps they're all barely graduated bachelors from the school of art and design *sigh*

[chidj2]

acording to neoGAF (idk if its true)

the MGS4 engine uses 2 SPEs no more

killzone2 (4 SPES thats true) in guerrilla site ther is a ENGINE FAQ its in pdf and FF13 in wikipedia says the withe engine will use 4 of the 6 availabe SPES

ooo and there are 6 of 8 available SPEs 1 for OS and 1 turned off

[GameDev]

is that each of these SPE's runs at 3.2ghz, in lay terms that means you can process 3.2 billion bits of information every second. Now surely no one thinks that developers are even hitting 40% of each SPE's capacity to crunch data. In other words talented developers are just now exploring how to (removed for intellectual copyright).....im saying too much. Let the noob developers brought up on microsoft development tools learn what real coding is all about on their own. IF EVER....lol

[jspc1989]

before it was approved. A doubt a game publisher wud come out and state something that is factually known to be false lol. they cant seriously not know about the ps3's 512meg ram can they ? lol. not a chance in hell, someone has turned thid around and wrote what they wanted to hear, and made themselves look like idiots lol.

its common knowledge that the ps3 has 512 ram that is just split into two halves.

[DJ]

But what producer Lee Perez is going to be pleasantly surprised by is that their theory is actually spot on. What they need to do next though is learn to cache data onto the PS3's hard drive so that they're not unintentionally limiting themselves to just 512MB of memory. Also, XDR memory is very fast, so what they also need to do is realize that Playstation hardware is built for fast streaming. They don't need to load an entire level's worth of data all at once.

A lot of texture memory can also be freed up by doing complex lighting calculations on the SPUs and RSX in tandem. Other things like Procedural aging/manipulation of pre-built textures and models is also something they can experiment with down the road.

[edhe]

Which i guess you can do? ;)

[GameDev]

be a hater, DJ knows what hes talking about. Hey Deej the realm of possibility of what can be done with those SPE's is just mind boggling. Before the PS3 is done it will take out the 360 AND 720.

[kewlkat007]

While Sony can rely on the CELL for certain functions that "memory architecture" will be the bottleneck to what the PS3 could really do.

Plus the Ps3's memory is split. With the issues of "in-game function" and so on, I just know something has not been right with whats available for the devs to use, after all these functions are implemented.

It will be interesting to see what Devs think and what it takes away from the Devs hands.

For those that do not know:

"The Xbox 360 has Unified Memory Architecture that lets the CPU and GPU share the system's 512MB of memory. The PlayStation 3 on the other had has 256MB of XDR memory and 256MB of GDDR3 memory dedicated to graphics"

[B4st10n]

For Xbox and Xbox 360 there was always a HUGE bottleneck on the CPU. Do you think it can access the memory freely hand in hand with the GPU ? Of course not, there is a price to sharing all that "Unified" memory and that is "asking the GPU permission for access".

Xbox dev have a special tool that helps them find and obliterate CPU starvation, but guess what, you can never get rid totally of it.

Don't be a misinformed fanboy, get all the facts!

[kewlkat007]

haha...riiight

game on playa.

[DJ]

A memory bottleneck while the 360 doesn't.

The 360's CPU not only runs off of GPU memory (high latency issues), but also accesses that memory through the GPU. Unified Memory Architecture is typically used in low-end PCs as a cost-saving measure, and actually lowers the performance of the chips within that system. While the first Xbox was GPU starved, the 360 is CPU starved. Like B4st10n said, there’s tools to fight it, but it can never be eliminated.

Cell and RSX have the benefit of having dedicated bandwidth lines to their memory pools, as well as a huge bandwidth connection between those two memory pools through Flex I/O (35GB a second). It costs a lot more money to implement than UMA, but has the benefit of much higher performance. And games require a ton of bandwidth on both the CPU and GPU.

[butterfinger]

B4st10n probably just joined to correct or add to what you said. You obviously didn't have an intelligent response, so you had to attack him for being a new member. It's nice when intelligent people join N4G nowadays. We should try not to scare them away.

[kewlkat007]

Right....

I don't spend that much time on here on fanboy debates. technical jibber jabber. I stated an opinion, which had nothing to do with the 360.

There go DJ again, see I did not bring the 360 into this, thats a fanboys job. Superiority complex about their system of choice.

"B4st10n probably just joined to correct or add to what you said."
I've been on here long enough kid. I know how sh^t works on here.

Who joins just to post a Baseless comment. Anyhow no reason to respond, I never said anything about the Xbox 360, so a Waste of my time kiddo..

[butterfinger]

Don't worry about the fanboys, kewlkat. You have shown your maturity by choosing to call others kid and kiddo. It's also apparent that you do not understand how things work right around here, because I, for one, joined this site originally just to respond to one ignorant post. Have a good day, "kiddo". "No need to respond", son.

[kewlkat007]

Hopefully your not offended, or still crying by me using such "harsh" words.

[Ashta]

It has 512, not 256 and has been split. Everyone knows that.

Although I'm not sure but this is why people initially said it was difficult to program for because of "parallel programming" or something like that.

I could be wrong though. Not about the 512 thing, but the parallel thing.

[Syronicus]

It's good to know that the PS3 doesn't have only 256MB but rather 512MB. This article fails on so many levels. I cannot see how it was approved.

LAME.

[lsujester]

It doesn't fail at all. When you take into account the fact that any process is using either the CPU or GPU only, and each of those has 256MB of RAM, then it can theoretically be limited to the 360 which will let you use whatever % of 512 that you need.

[cellypower]

Monster Madness: Battle for Suburbia Action looks like a PSN,XBLA or wiware title.

[Says you]

1080p and 720p while XBox 360 cant even run Halo 3 at 720p or run Ninja Gaiden II at 720p

considering both Halo 3 640p and Ninja Gaiden II 578p

and Metal Gear Solid 4 is much higher then any of those 2

Metal Gear Solid 4 768p you probably would wonder what can it do if it was 1080p would it do 1090p?

and before the XBox 360 fans bring up haze its confirmed 720p.

[Madmax1281980]

right just to clear that up. halo 3 would have run at a higher res if the developers put more effort into it and the same goes for ng2.

but then look at it this way halo 3 runs at 640p and haze runs at 720 but funny enough halo 3 looks much better and has got more going on in it.

now what both xbox and ps3 fans need to realize is that both xbox and ps3 are almost similar power wise and that evrey game thats released on both can be done on them.

mgs 4 can be done on the 360 only limitation is the disc cappacity and so could uncharted cmon it aint the best looking game on the planet.

[Kleptic]

??...Haze runs at like 585p or something...

[ambientFLIER]

Ok, I won't mention Haze. I'll just mention GTAIV, which runs in sub-HD on the PS3, unlike the xbox.

[pimpstation]

But it still looks/plays better on the PS3. Enjoy your extra 50 pixels, and I'll enjoy not having sh1t pop up 5 ft in front of me.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

Deflect!! Deflect!!! Hurry!! Even if you have to lie!!

Get out your SDF handbook and start crying!

[ambientFLIER]

But the point is that the all-powerful PS3 can't even handle the GTAIV in HD, even with slightly less popup than the 360 version.

[NO_PUDding]

The point is that Uncharted ISN'T possible on the 360, or GeoW2 would be knocking at it's door askign for the Best Graphics Award. And it isn't.

GTA IV is difficult becuase it was obviosu fromthe start that Rockstar used the 360 as a basis. It was goign to be the case, devkits had arrived sooner, and they had the RAGE engine perfected on it.

And in every otehr repsect including graphical output (in the same way Halo 3 looks better than some 720p games) the PS3 version looks and plays better.

The fact is, is that the 360 has reached it's limitations, and the PS3 has already matched and beaten it. But The PS3 is still a fairly undiscovered technology. Better Engien dynamics and such will be able to continually improve play, and graphics.

[Shadow Flare]

Yeah, for one thing ps3 has 512mb not 256mb. Secondly, if memory has ever been a problem, then im yet to see it in the games because at the moment they seem to be pounding 360 games pretty hard in the graphics department, and indeed any other department

[ApocalypseShadow]

for a system that has only 256......whatever.....it sure makes games that look better than 360.how can a system with half the memory make games that look as good or better?

bluray isn't going to help.the HDD isn't going to help.so either,ps3 is just as powerful with half.or someone is LYING.

and all systems have bottlenecks KEWLKAT.but i'm not seeing that in GT5 and MGS4 or uncharted.and as for 360's unified memory,i don't see it as being any better.

no top games on 360 look better than what i mentioned.and just because it's unified doesn't mean they don't have to "SPLIT" resources to run game engines,A.I.,etc.and that 10 megs of memory didn't help any games like halo3 or forza 2 with antialiasing.

apocalypse...................

[Dc4eVeR]

Memory of PS3 :

* 256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
* 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz

And yes this console no need more ram , look uncharted and MGS4 ,this two games is 50% of capacity of PS3 ...

[GIN]

those two games use nowhere near that much of ps3s capacity.

[Marty8370]

Just cos the PS3 512Mb of memory been split, does'nt mean that that either the Cell or RSX are just limited to 256Mb each. Both the Cell or RSX can use each others ram.

[lsujester]

True, but the latency involved in doing that is so much that it's largely foolish to even try it.

[GIN]

for the guy up the list i can guarantee that the ps3 will push visuals beyond 7 times of uncharted

[robep3]

I have a PS3 and it wont give graphics 7 times better than UNCHARTED
exactly how would you measure that.The SPE'S will be used for others things in games like improved AI an physics. Uncharted 720p at 30 fps
1080p at 60 fps roughly 4 times more pixels being pushed so you may see a lot more games at 1080p 60fps but with better physics etc.

Rob.

[ActionBastard]

That's a shame...someone actually thinks the PS3 has 256MB and wrote about it. LOL.

[zypher]

developers should just let the games speak for themselves. lousy ports show that the PS3 is at least a difficult system to develop for (in relation to the XBox 360 and the PC, that is). Uncharted, GT5 Prologue, MGS4, Tools of Destruction, Lair (sucky gameplay, but a graphical masterpiece all the same), Heavy Rain, and many others all prove that when properly optimized, the PS3 is more powerful than everything except for a high-end PC.

[SynGamer]

From what has been released, the PS3 uses a little less than 64MB total of the 512MB combined system memory...that right there is likely the systems greatest hurtle that needs to be overcome. In comparison, the 360 uses 32MB total of the 512MB of system memory. If Sony can free up 20-30 MB, this would put the two systems on roughly the same ground memory wise, leaving the developers to use the systems' CPU's and GPU's to their fullest. From what we've seen, once the developers get a grasp on the PS3's SPEs (which i believe is 6 for the devs, 1 for the OS) we should see some pretty damn good looking games, even better than MGS4, possibly better than Killzone 2 and/or GT5.

But again, Sony needs to lower the PS3's memory footprint and give the devs back some memory.

[ActionBastard]

The PS3's memory footprint was reduced from 64MB to 52MB with the release of SDK 1.6. The PS3's OS cost is 84MB compared to the 360's OS of 32MB. Seeing how we're at 2.35 right now, I'm pretty sure more reductions have taken place with the SDK.

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/20...

[SynGamer]

@25.1

I originally read that article but realized it was from May 2007. Then i came across the link below and it stated that 2.20 would see the memory footprint reduced "a lot". Would love to know what the actual footprint is now with 2.35...

http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...

[Darrius Cole]

He should have said "learning how to use all of the PS3's memory is a developers 'biggest challenge'.

[meepmoopmeep]

i'm still wondering why crazy ken didn't just put in 512MB memory in the first place.

[aliveinboston]

They call him Krazy Ken but his PS3 is outselling the Xbox360 and Blu-Ray smashed HD-DVD and is already cutting into DVD sales.

As explained but someone earlier, the two pools is better than a unified pool. It's harder for developers but has the potential for better performance. That's why you will never find a gaming PC with unified memory. Unified memory is for laptops and other less capable devices. True hardcore gaming PCs always have two seperate pools like the PS3.

This article is a joke.

This is what DJ said:

A memory bottleneck while the 360 doesn't.

The 360's CPU not only runs off of GPU memory (high latency issues), but also accesses that memory through the GPU. Unified Memory Architecture is typically used in low-end PCs as a cost-saving measure, and actually lowers the performance of the chips within that system. While the first Xbox was GPU starved, the 360 is CPU starved. Like B4st10n said, there’s tools to fight it, but it can never be eliminated.

Cell and RSX have the benefit of having dedicated bandwidth lines to their memory pools, as well as a huge bandwidth connection between those two memory pools through Flex I/O (35GB a second). It costs a lot more money to implement than UMA, but has the benefit of much higher performance. And games require a ton of bandwidth on both the CPU and GPU.

[ELite_Ghost]

they should let us upgrade the ram to 2 gigs for like 50$ and i'm sure everyone will be willing to do it.

[SynGamer]

@27, wouldn't matter, the developers wouldn't be able to use it because not everyone would have it.

[DJ]

XDR RAM isn't exactly cheap. It would also have to be soldered onto the board. o_o'

[xhairs]

They should have just put 2 gigs of ram in it to begin with. Seems to work with the PC and since all these consoles are becoming PC's anyways...I don't see the problem.

[The Lazy One]

A lot of the RAM on a PC goes to running background programs. The whole 2gb doesn't go solely to running whatever game it is you're playing.

[xhairs]

But the price of a gig of ram is so cheap, who would care? At least we wouldn't have to argue, hell all we're paying for in our homes now are PC's with controllers now days anyways right?

[heyheyhey]

and so continues video gamers quest to downplay the PS3

[Mc187]

I'll shall write them a stern letter telling them to (what's the phrase I'm looking for......)
oh yeah
Phuk off

[REDZEV]

well thats because the truth hurts doesnt it????

[Hellsvacancy]

but u can blame the idiot/s that posted and approved the story prayin 4 a fan boy war....

i dont dont need 2 see numbers and specs to know my ps3 is better than the 360

[Citizen Cook]

And start again. I think it'll be Phoney rushing to market with the PS4 this time...

They can't keep losing customers and money like this...

They lose £60 on every console they sell?
Reminds me of M$ in the old days, before they kicked Phoney's ASS!

HA HA HA HA!

[Pp p]

You actually do need to see numbers and specs if you believe ps3 is more better than xbox360

[shadowghost752]

"more better" that makes no sense at all, learn to use the English language properly

[juuken]

...More better?
Have you been to school lately?

[PopEmUp]

Private tutor and he still a C level in his class, "shaking head"

[Dooditsmiguel]

Memory limitation or not
the PS3 still has better graphics than xbox
i mean look at MGS4
:)

[Madmax1281980]

ye and i can bet anything that mgs4 CAN be done on the 360!

the only thing the ps3 has thats better that the 360 is the blu-ray disc capacity.

[Harry190]

to the guys who are developing the Ghostbusters game? I'm sure they would have something very interesting to say about the amount of objects they can put on the screen. Go on,go on,just ask people who actually know what they are talking about.

[unjust]

It has the ability to have better graphics, but game designers will not use its full capability only on a few which are exclusive titles and even they could look way better.

[tgh machines]

Although I agree that there is an equal amount of ram on the PS3 as there is on the 360, I do believe that the low amount of ram will hold both consoles back, I think it will hold the ps3 back more because it is more powerful then the 360.

[xhairs]

What is the BIGGEST CHALLENGE for the PS3? Hell, I'm just gonna throw this up there I think it's Sony. Anyone else?

(NOTE: This is a joke /sarcasm off.)

Your disagree's are not worthy of me.

[pow3r of t3h c3ll]

If this is true then why does the PS3 have the best looking games like MGS4, Uncharted and Gran Turismo 5?

Even devs can be fanboys

[karlostomy]

Hey just my opinion. Don't hate.

[pow3r of t3h c3ll]

you have not played it then. What about any of the underground tombs or in the church? The detail and texture resolution are amazing its just the jungle that looks cartoony but the awesome light,water,animations and wind effects make up for lack of texture detail when you are outside.

[karlostomy]

I have played the game at a store on a HD display for some time.

It just didn't impress me that much.
Was all a bit repetitive and cartoony. Sorry i am repeating myself.

Once again. Just my opinion. don't hate. Sheeeeesh!

[juuken]

Oh woooow karl, a demo.
You played a demo and said the game didn't impress you.
You're unbelievable.

[The playa]

Haha don't get your knickers in a twist! :P As he said "Once again. Just my opinion. don't hate. Sheeeeesh!"

[juuken]

His opinion, sure but he should have played the whole game before making such a silly statement.
edit: And karl, I'm only angry when assholes like you find every conceivable way to make the PS3 look like crap.

[karlostomy]

That girl has her knickers twisted in a knot 24/7 methinks. No wonder she so angry....

[SpenserTracy]

Very strange. The fastest graphic cards use 512MB. Would it not be enough you think. The amount of high res textures you get into 256MB is enough. If you can get the amount higher it would be slightly better. If you use streaming. And so far the only console that has proven (MGS4) it can really handle highres textures is the PS3, so the 360 is not all that.

[Killa Aaron]

another one of these dumb damn articles looking for something to hate on PS3, 360 has 256 + 256 =512 SHARED PS3 has 256 + 256 =512 Dedicated.

STUPID

[The Lazy One]

At least this one is a developer interview. Almost everything pro-360 posted on this site has some twist of M$ being desperate or nervous.

[iamtehpwn]

wasn't close to being to being equal if not equal, we wouldn't be seeing as many PS3-360 games as we do now.

[flOw]

lmao?

[IzKyD1331]

this guy is developing for the ps3 and he has no idea wat hes talking about

[juuken]

...*headdesk*
How did this get approved again?!

[The Lazy One]

He's probably talking about either piece of the split memory. I'm sure none of you have ever said anything that could be taken out of context before.

[blakstarz]

This is funny coming from someone who made a crappy game on the 360....if the PS3 has such 'limitation'...then why do have have mind-blowing looking games like Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank:TOD, and MGS4....you just don't know how to code and program that well for the PS3...that what it sounds like to me, just like the rest of these other devs that cry that the PS3 is too complex to program for (Hi EA!). People need to toss that theory out the window at this point in the game...and also, the guy is wrong as people pointed out...the PS3 has 512, just used in 2 banks..

[chidj2]

because CELL 10% and GPU 90% dude

in a recent interview some gay asked kojima
we will see MGS4 in another plataform? and he answered this:

we used CEll al lil bit so its impossible to see MGS4 in another plataform only PS3 CEll processor can make what we want in MGS4

[MazzingerZ]

as long as PS3 gives me more Uncharteds, Ratchet&clank, MGS4 and coming Killzones 2, littlebigplanet, etc I could care less what's challenging for lazy developers that only want to port games as easy as possible between X360-PS3 (or vice versa) to make the most profit of a game

[power of Green]

LOL at the PS3 fanboys trying to twist whats being said everybody knows the PS3 has a total of 512MB of memory lol(devs are talking about whats available for games when they mention this issue) lol.

[digger18]

I'd still rather have a system with dedicated ram available to the GPU, than shared like a low end PC or Laptop has.

Edit: Only inferior in the eyes of rabid fanboys. Oh and don't call me Laddy, I bet I'm twice your age.

[power of Green]

PS3 is over hyped and inferior its alright little laddy.

[juuken]

PoG...
...
...
...
You try way too hard.

[Isaac]

I assume it is superior because it uses DVD9, no HDD, has a conventional PC architecture and RRODs most of the time? Oh, I guess you overlooked those facts.

[SkyGamer]

You forget that the X360 has 10 MB embedded eDRAM which gives it the boost it needs. The memory bandwith for the eDRAM gives the X360 an extra 256 GB/s while the faster ram on ps3 only gives like 22.56 gb/s. Numbers are fairly close, might be off by a hair or two.

[LinuxGuru]

Wait, so you really think that stupid little eDRAM affects the whole system's bandwidth? You do know that it's seriously bottlenecked by the other components right?

[Cynical-Gamerzus]

Dont even go there with that Bottleneck Sh::t 10MB Edram implementation on 360!!LOL
That Edram you mention on the xbox360 is the main reason why it never was a true HD system it can not hold hold 720p and has so far turned your 360 into a joke and winded up being a crossplatform joke when porting to our PS3
.
Go away go far away and wait for the Xbox360 2..

[LinuxGuru]

WHO THE HELL APPROVED THIS STUPID ARTICLE

This article is so wrong.

Having a CPU that is forced to battle with a GPU for a unified memory pool is STUPID (360). The more memory the CPU uses....the less video RAM you have for the current scene....the more video RAM used, the less system RAM is for the CPU.

Oh, and I'll have you know that the 3.2GHz 256MB XDR RAM the Cell uses runs CIRCLES around the 700MHz GDDR3 the 360 uses.

So what if it's 512MB unified in the 360.

256MB of 3.2GHz XDR RAM and 256MB of 700MHz GDDR3 in the PS3 is more than enough to suffice for many things.

[Xbox is the BEST]

are you talking about?

[GameDev]

its over your head kid, let it go.

[Xbox is the BEST]

512MB dedicated to the GPU

[LinuxGuru]

The 512MB is shared between the CPU and GPU.

Grow a brain.

[Slayer OP]

This idot is going to add false fuel to the fanboy fire.

[DiegoM8]

WTF? xD

[Cynical-Gamerzus]

512MB total split for PS3 and yes it is faster and more optimized and engineered for HD thanks to Cell combo.. Compared to crap ass Low def Edram on Xbox360 and slow shared ram No thanks!!
This arrangement has hit its wall already thus leavening the xbox360 with PC graphics that have been maxed out already!!!
360 Maxed out simply a PC with shared Ram

Sad but true 360 = boring technology.

[Xbox is the BEST]

R2, the PS#3 is already maxed out also. Going by your logic.

[Infernus]

"Like R2, the PS#3 is already maxed out also. Going by your logic."

No what he's saying is because the 360 has slower shared RAM it's going to max out soon. Like an old PC that needs more RAM. Unlike the PS3 that has faster RAM in two places so to speak.

What I've always wonder is why don't Sony and Microsoft build consoles where the RAM can be upgraded? With limitations obviously because of heat issues.

[TheXgamerLive]

MGS4 isn't the end all to be all nor does the ps3 have the "available" memory that the Xbox 360 has. Spin as you will however you like but the truth is the truth.

Spin away.

[juuken]

And your stupidity has no bounds.

Spin away at that.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

I think there are a lot of valid points, here and one could argue one way or the other. Only the actual game developers know best, but not necessarily all.

From what I can tell, it seems MS has made the sensible approach and made the Xbox 360 hardware easier to program and harness the technology. Sony on the other hand over-engineered the crap out of the PS3 and sure it is one technological feat it is a pain to get even comparable performance to the Xbox 360 out of it.

So, yes, Sony was right they did have a 10 year roadmap since it will take developers a lot of resources to figure out how to use the PS3's power.

If you look at developer responses, I hear:

- Sony hardware can do stuff MS hardware can not, due to the computational power of Cell. However a pain to work with so far.
- Sony hardware has memory limitation (this is actually a real concern, but can be resolved by constant streaming of textures to the limited memory)
- Complaints about MS lack of hard drive standard in Xbox 360

So far from what I can tell, it seems like MS engineered their box for easier use rather than raw power. This has paid off, in an increasingly high production cost for video games. It is therefore no suprise then that most games look better or equal on Xbox 360 compared to their PS3 counterparts (especially if equal effor is put into developing for both consoles). However, if one puts a lot of resources and time into optimizing the game, then one can get amazing lookings games like MGS4 and Uncharted.

So on the PS3 you will continue to see better looking games year over year unless that 256MB Video Ram turns out to be too big of a bottleneck to move past.

[Infernus]

But what's not mentioned often is that the PS3 has faster RAM than the 360, which means that although the RAM may be just 2x256MB it runs fast enough to deal with what's required.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

The PS3 Video RAM is faster. However, the bottleneck once you hit the 256MB barrier isn't the RAM speed, but the loading of the texture i.e. loading it off the optical disc or hard drive.

Optical discs and hard drives are immensely slower than even basic computer memory. I don't have numbers in front of me, but the factor is probalby at least a 100 times faster on video memory than loading off optical discs.

[chidj2]

ps3

formula 1 3.2 ghz

xbox 360

jetta 88 700 mhz

the eDRAm is only for antileassing procceses

[B-Rein]

y is this approved, its no such news the ps3s Memory 256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz, overall 512mb, it doesnt share the memory like 360

[tordavis]

Blah blah blah blah blah!

You're all game developers right?

STFU and play the games.

[GUNS N SWORDS]

yeah see i was thinking about that as well,

if a scene demanded 340 MBs of memory for textures or anything graphics related 360 would be able to meat the demands, which is why 360 native games run better on 360 hardware, like lost planet or dark sector.

ps3 on the other hand couldn't do that, in order for ps3 to make up for it's losses the game would have to be installed to the drive......and even still ps3's HD drive is no match for ps3's 256 of GDDR3, but ps3 has many games that do over come all this, this issue is only big during 360 to ps3 ports NOT exclusive games.

( ps3 and 360 are both fast hot rods that both give you something unique, ps3 takes the left road and 360 takes the right road, both of these roads have twists and bends in them, but even still with all these bends and twists they both end up with nearly identical results.........a good game)

[GameDev]

oh jesus. you kids need to stop with your armchair developing.
any developer that doesn't use the 700 mhz ram in the PS3 for STATIC objects in a scene like buildings and backgrounds, IS A MORON.

the 3.2 ghz memory is the real workhorse in the PS3, it serves as the palette for real time phsyics and lighting calculations as well as post rendering passes thru the SPE's. SO you see kiddo, at the end of the day a talented developer with a PS3 will blow the doors of ANY developer on the 360. The 360 basically does nothing special to enable true next gen gaming. By the end of 09 the difference will be so obvious even noob fanboys wont be able deny the PS3's superiority. Its not bias, numbers DONT LIE and at the end of the day Sony built a much better and more advanced console.

[GUNS N SWORDS]

not yours.

oh but do go on about your opinions.......they seem pretty much from a humble none bias point of view.

[Infernus]

The Killzone 2 devs have pretty much proved GameDev's point. Although I don't like to fuel fires (That's where the irony of my name comes in :D) I think GameDev is right. Although he could have worded it a lot better.

[Xbox is the BEST]

the GPU inside the PS#3 runs at 3.2 Ghz why on earth can't multiplatform games look better? Just asking.

[Jamaicangmr]

Stay out of discussions which you can't add anything of substance.

The Nvidia 8600GTS runs at a core clock of 675Mhz and the Nvidia 9800GX2 runs at a core clock of 600Mhz. Does that mean that the 8600 is automatically better?

Another thing clearly the slight advantage that the Xbox360's GPU has doesn't amount to anything with proper PS3 coding as there are games on the PS3 which are speculated by devs and many more to not be possible on the Xbox360 in its current state. i.e. MGS4, Uncharted, GT5 etc.

Another example is Ninja Gaiden Sigma which runs at a solid 60FPS and 1080p on the PS3 yet Ninja Gaiden 2 on the so called most powerful console couldn't achive such speeds and resolutions. Yet it used the same engine.

Now what have you learnt?

[spacetoilet]

SAD.
What a loser.

[Xbox is the BEST]

personal troll just showed up :)
Whatever you post doesn't change the fact that multiplatform games run and look like sh1t on the PS#3. If any PS exclusives that you listed was on 360 it would look the same, no drop off. All I read in your post is blah blah blah blah one day the Cell blah blah blah. People without HDTVs like you shouldn't post crap. Blind to Sony it's O.K.

Space Toilet the name fits you well, everything you post is sh1t

[Xbox is the BEST]

the PS#3's GPU runs at 3.2 Ghz why don't multiplatform games look better?

[DJ]

You see the PS3 advantage when you look at the exclusive titles like MGS4 or Uncharted.

[GUNS N SWORDS]

and 360's exclusive GEAR2 looks more graphically intense than MGS4, done at 720p not 1024 X 768 like MGS4.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...

http://www.watch.impress.co...

http://www.watch.impress.co...

[Infernus]

The problem with multiplats is that they're limited by the weaker console. The 360 is easier to dev for so it's used as the primary bit of kit to build the game, then it's ported to the PS3. So the 360 limits the PS3.

However, if we switch it and use the PS3 first, no PS3 game can be ported straight to 360 because of compression and the way it's developed. The PS3 is harded to dev for but if the work is put into it, the game that emerges can beat anything the 360 throws out.

That's the problem, both consoles limit each other when it comes to multiplats, but when it comes to exclusive games the PS3 is top trump.

Btw Guns n Swords, in-game it looks slightly smoother than that, that's the problem with screen-grabs they always look fuzzier than the real deal. I'm no doubting the 720p thing btw, just saying there's no real point using shots from a game as it always looks better in-game.

[Dragonopolis]

How many Xbox 360 guys really believe there is 512 MB of Ram?

Fact: Xbox 360 uses Unified Memory structure

Now What if a Developer wanted to use 400Mb of memory for the CPU (which is 3 full cores by the way).

How much would the GPU (graphic processor) have left for memory?

112MB of memory

Fact is a Unified Memory structure is bad as all processors sharing the memory must battle it out for the extra few bits of memory.

Developers probably keep the memory usage as steady as possible with 256MB to CPU and 256MB GPU (this is not constant but a close proximity as memory usage constantly changes).

Unified Memory when more is given one the other processor/processors suffer.

And remember that there is "3" full cores battling for that half or less portion of memory.

Microsoft Crippled their console more than Sony did going with Unified Memory.

Xbox 360 gamers will never see a game that the GPU or CPU will utilize the full 512MB of RAM.

So again, Does the Xbox have 512 MB of Ram.

Technically - yes

Real world usage: NO!

So stop arguing with Sony games over memory. Both systems were are limited in memory but Sony gave the PS3 both Dedicated Ram (which is better) and a Unified Memory structure of sorts (meaning the GPU does have access to memory of the CPU but at a speed penalty compare to Xbox 360's unified set up).

Remember that only one processor is really utilizing the Memory on CPU side as most processes done by the Cell are on-the-fly calculations and don't need huge amounts of Ram. Cell's SPUs each have their own Memory structure using SRAM like cache and is also dedicated. Its not a lot but considering what the SPUs where design to do really doen't need that much - but it is there.

Problem with the Cell isn't really memory (consoles generally never had a lot of memory to begin with).

Problem is the complexity in how, when, where, and what in a game to use all these Processors and Memory options.

PS3 has got a while to get its legs going but you will see a few games that will shine better than anything the Xbox 360 could accomplish but it will be awhile.

Until then, PS3 and Xbox 360 games should be similar in many ways until "DEVELOPERS" decide to write games that take specific advantages of each console.

When that happens, I'm sorry to say this Xbox 360 owners, PS3 has to many specific advantages available to developers (not counting the Bluray disc) than the Xbox 360. Look for exclusives on PS3 to be noticeably better than their cross platform counterparts compared to the 360 which most games will be better but not night and day better than what is already offered.

Question gamers need to ask themselves now is whether have consistency is more important than a few epic games. PS3 will seem unbalance with a few games looking PCish in quality (if not surpassing in some areas) while the rest appear to be equal to the average cross platform game

Or to the Xbox 360 where game developement is much easier to perform and performs better than the PS3 when using a game engine (PS3 is better when the game is design in-house). So as game software experience increases with the Xbox 360 it helps all developers not just a few. This becomes a domino effect - thus most games will benefit and it will appear that most xbox 360 games are improving at a more even rate - in other words consistency in the quality of game developement over the life of the system.

I like Sony's strategy a bit more than Microsofts. It rewards both gamer and developer because there is a noticeable difference when you put a huge amount of effort into an Exclusive game compared to those developers that are out to just make a buck or are cross platform junkies.

By giving Developers more options does help with the overall experience for the gamer and in the end we will see some wonderful masterpieces arrive for the PS3.

In defense of Xbox 360 gamers - by the time that happens we will have had a new console out by Microsoft and it will kick a$$ (but unfortunetly will be way more expensive than the PS3).

Hope the memory bit helped

Later

[G1TR4P3D]

HAHAHahHAHAHAHhahaHHAHAHahaha PS3 SUX!!!

This is why every multiplat game has blurry normal maps. even COD4, which already has insanely blurry normal map son both consoles and PC, also has blurrier normal maps on the PS3 LOL. and that's just sad.

owned.

[spacetoilet]

Above me is the typical 'kiddie' sh1tbox owner.

[G1TR4P3D]

awwwww, someone owns a PS3 :(

[NanoGeekTech]

After playing 14hrs 04minutes and 6 seconds of Metal Gear currently on ACT III.......and before that HS,Uncharted, R&CTOD, and Folklore...

The PS3 with all its limitation has granted me some of the BEST gaming experiences I have ever had in my 32 years on this earth......and I also own a Xbox360

...And if with all the limitation that my PS3 has and it continues to churn out AAA titles every 2 months I cannot wait till they get all the bugs worked out...or figure out that Memory Limitation issue.......SH!T games then for the PS3 would be out of this world......

[MANCREEP]

PS3 may have power, but it hard to tap into....Dev's arent happy with it and most multiplatform games on PS3 are just 360 ports.

And before a flamewar gets started over Resolutions, NOTHING EVER RUNS IN HD WHEN ITS IN MOTION. NOTHING. THE IMAGE NEEDS TO TO BE STILL OR IN SLOW MO(which should be over 500 frames a second). <--something some of you would have learned in school if you paid any attention at all. Anything else is will always have your standard blur, especially when alot of explosions fill the screen.

[CertifiedGamer]

Metal Gear looks better than any game on the xbox360
Our line up keeps getting better while the xbots have nothing to look foward to.
Resistence is going to destroy POGs Huxley and Killzone will kill Gears of war.
Xbox Live hasn't done anything new but give more of the same.
Common POG I remember you saying NG2 was going to crush MGS4 what happend?
The PS3 limitation prove nothing but that some fanboy wanted to give there declining system a comeback.
POG does it suck that your system have cant do gigaflops?
Does it suck that your next halo(Halo Wars) is going to flop
Does it suck that the 360 after the jrpg support will not get the sales,graphics or storyline FF13 is going to have?
Does it suck that your HD DVD is in the closet?
Does it suck that your hard drives are expensive and 80% of developers don't believe in it and just consider it an add on?
Does it suck that you can afford a ps3 so you gotta bash it?
Does it feel good knowing that the 360 keeps holding the ps3 back?
Is it fun wasting 50 dollars to play a game online that you already paid 60 for?
Does it feel good that all your games top games look better on PS3.
Do you wear a diaper?
Do you still be mom and daddy for a PS3 everyday?
Does it feel good to waste 100 dollars to play wireless on the xbox360?

[MANCREEP]

POG does it suck that your system have cant do gigaflops?
--I Assume you mean am I upset b/c the 360 isnt a supercomputer?
Well first off, you have to remember that any "supercomputer" based on Cell technology uses multi-core technology, thats FAR beyond whats inside your PS3's standard cell. Thats is unless you hard-link 20 of them together. But to answer your question, no, i'm not upset that i "cant have do giga-flops". I'd rather have a system that plays games better than it does making spreadsheets.

Does it suck that your next halo(Halo Wars) is going to flop?
---Well, I seem to recall alot of kids like you claim the same thing when it came to HALO 3. And yet, when push came to shove, it out sold any PS3 to date, including MGS4(do the research, my man).
I'm not looking forward to Halo Wars, but thats cause I'm not into real-time strategy games. But Bungie's "next big thing for the halo franchise" announcement was made WAY after people knew about Halo Wars, so I doubt that they were refferring to it. Dont be upset that it'll never come to PS3, just buy a 360 and keep your bases covered.

Does it suck that the 360 after the jrpg support will not get the sales,graphics or storyline FF13 is going to have?
---HAHAHAHAHA, the 360 will probably end up with FF13, but even if it doesnt, is that what you base a good RPG off of? Is that your only example? You need to get out more. Alot of good games out there, so dont be afraid to pull your head out of your A$$ and look around.
The best RPG I have ever played? Final Fantasy 2, on the original Gameboy. The next? Skies of Arcadia, on the Dreamcast. And those games are old, so you've missed alot of good ones.

Does it suck that your HD DVD is in the closet?
----I Never bought one. The 360 uses the codecs from Windows Media Player, which will allow me to stream ALL my content from my computer(including High-Def movies--torrents rock). And the best part? I have ALOT of movies but since i'm streaming the content, I dont use up ANY memory on the 360's HDD.

Does it suck that your hard drives are expensive and 80% of developers don't believe in it and just consider it an add on?
----wow. I read this same article, except it said that 80% of developers think the PS3 hardware is worthless when it comes to developement and they dont enjoy it. It was taken from a YouTube interview with Gabe Newell(from Valve). The HDD is an add-on? Mine came with one....BUT anywho, It allows for DLC(among other things), which is something you guys need to get used to not having alot of.

Does it suck that you can afford a ps3 so you gotta bash it?
---I bought mine at Wal-Mart. And they gave me a free game of my choice. I was very pleased with the purchase, but maybe its price is what is driving some folks to the WII or 360.....having an expensive console doesnt make it better.

Does it feel good knowing that the 360 keeps holding the ps3 back?
----Actually since most multiplatform games are ports from the 360 version, it would be the PS3 holding the 360 back. 2 great examples, ORANGE BOX, and GTA4. They got another team ENTIRELY to re-develop the game for PS3 owners, but they were fed up with delays and gave 360 owners the game early. And GTA4 had 2 delays b/c of bugs in the PS3 version. If the PS3 is ready to spread it wings and fly, by all means I hope it does so, this will mean more games for me.

Is it fun wasting 50 dollars to play a game online that you already paid 60 for?
---The age old saying still applies: "You get what you PAY for".
PSN = Nothing. You'll figure it out, just read it over slowly.
All jokes aside, I'm on Xbl WAY more than PSN.

Does it feel good that all your games top games look better on PS3?
----What games would you be reffering to?

Do you wear a diaper?
------I'm not gonna lie. I wet the bed till I was 10. I was too afraid of the dark to get out of bed and go to the bathroom. But I;ve gotten better about it, lol.

Do you still be<g> mom and daddy for a PS3 everyday?
----No, I just drove to my local walmart and bought one.

Does it feel good to waste 100 dollars to play wireless on the xbox360?
---Yeah, that does kind of suck. But since most of my "toys" are in the same room, I just use a ethernet cable, and network my 360 to my computer. Yeah, when you can stream all your content from your PC, let me know.

NOW LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION: How does it feel to be a douchebag?

[xg-ei8ht]

Your all right and your all wrong.

Of course texture add alot to a game.

But more important then that is, lighting,shaders.

That is the reason uncharted looks so good, it's shaders,lighting,shadows speak for themselves.

But the textures look pretty sweet too.

Texture Streaming is now being used in ps3 games, It wasn't for awhile, Gears of war uses that method, and so will gow2.

A.i will improve, Animations will Improve(killzone2) and all above. Some areas more then others of course.

But can't you guys ever remember looking at a game,years back and thinking, i can't see how they will make it better looking then this, and boom the next year it starts again.

Well that was in my youth, and taught me never to think that something isn't possible, even by x7.

Anythings possible if you want it enough.

[MANCREEP]

One day, Fergie will be mine? All mine?

You'd better be right Mister, lol.

[Gitaroo]

streaming texture is the way to go for PS3, it says in Naughty Dog PDF file for Uncharted which has some of the best texture in any current PS3. Insonmaic also mention that they free up 160 MB of Vram in Ratchet and Clank future PDF because of texture streaming compare to Resistance 1. Gears of war and pretty much all Unreal Engine 3 game use texture streaming to achieve high detail texture.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

Hop in the spin train, next stop denial station.

[spacetoilet]

Go and play Halo Jason, you can be the pink chief.

[digger18]

shhhh Jason, you shouldn't tell all the Sony fans where the Xbox fans are hiding.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

Remember to catch a cab to "I Won't Believe It st", stop by Everyone is Payed by MS Diner, and order a the big Blind Burger. XD

[MANCREEP]

Guys. I know this hurts you. But you could avoid all this by getting a Wii AND a 360----cause then you could never lose! Get all 3 systems and be a fan of the games, not the Brands.

You guys are worse than certified gamer(see above for his comments, lol) and he's about as sane as the kid in my video comment.

[juuken]

And MANCREEP, owning all three systems doesn't make you any less of a douchebag. If you owned all three systems, then you should be playing games instead of trying to justify your position of owning three systems.

[MANCREEP]

thats like saying just b/c i bought a game i have to play it day and night. i do have a job. and occasionally i get bored. thats when i come on here to read decent articles, and then fish thru the comments for the funny ones that brighten my day...then ofcourse we have comments like yours, that not only are pointless, but enforce my point in how stupid fanboys are. do us all a favor, stick your tongue in a lightsocket, kid.

[gnothe1]

how many time have developers said that while developing on the PS3 they have to make sure they dont go over the memory limits of the PS3. you never hear that comment about the 360. even carmack said they have to be careful with the PS3 but you guys wanna dismiss his comments. its a known fact that the PS3 has 512 mb memory, but its 2 smaller 256 memory pools an the PS3 can never access more than the 256 mb pool. this is also one of the main reasons why sony hasnt released the in game XMB because there trying to cut the system OS down an still have enough memory to do great things with the system. an come on guys MGS4 looks really good but its not the best looking game ever. if you really have the game, pull out your gun go into first person mode an just look around,look at the walls look at the ground. those things look horrid, there all FLAT painted on pictures of cracks an bricks an dirt. the character models look good but at times even the mesh in snakes suite look like flat painted textures. an dont say its my tv. i have a 60 inch SONY SXRD 1080p HDTV. now how many of you have that. this is also another reason why developers will move to the PS3 as lead because once the game is up an running on the PS3 there would be no reason why they wont have a good running 360 game.in the past, games that lead on 360 that used more than the usual amount of memory ran like crap on the PS3, bad frame rates, lower graphics an you guys know thats was happening. an other than not having enough memory to make an equal game what was the reason for lesser PS3 ports. LAZY DEVS HUH? LOL

[Big Jim]

I won't pretend to know anything about computers, RAM, memory, etc. All I know is that I've never seen a PS3 game with good textures, and I'm starting to think I never will. MGS4 is one of the PS3's flagship games, and although it looks incredible overall, the textures are really bad in that game. Uncharted also looks incredible, but its a third person game, and the camera is almost never close enough to any object to see whether the textures are good or not. After playing MGS4 and COD4 for the PS3, there is now little doubt in my mind that, for whatever reason, the PS3 just can't produce good textures and never will.

[QuackPot]

Did both Consoles only go for around 512 MGs.

I mean, the next gen consoles are essentially PCs that are meant to last at least 5 years. And 2 Gbs are the absolute minimum these days for a PC.

Oh, well. The Ps3 only had 32 Mgs and we saw in God of War what developers could extract from the system. Likewise with the Ps3 and Xbox 360.

Aside:

I wonder if the future Ps3 slim will have a memory upgrade like the PSP.

[madjedi]

I don't think either console would need 2 gigs, that might be overly redundant, maybe 512mb for the cpu and gpu each. Or just bump the gpu's memory up to 512. I'd guess that the xbox 720 and ps4 will have at least 512megs for both the gpu and the cpu

Pc's usually have large os's that suck down a chunk of memory then the individual user program take their share out as well. The primary reason each only has 512megs is cost and they believed that amount would be sufficient, would be my guess.

[Infernus]

you've touched on something there that I've wondered about for a while. What if the consoles were upgradable. Not just HDD's but the RAM too. I think the RAM should be limited (Like with laptops) so we don't overheat the console. A 2GB stick would be too much. The reason PC's need 2GB's these days is because a PC needs memory to run background programs and OS-related things, consoles don't.

Anyway, a Windows PC is limited to a 2GB total usage in an application and can't extend past that unless you have a 64bit OS, which isn't as compatible for most things; lots of problems with gaming. I was going to upgrade to 4GB but it won't do much good in the long run.

Anyway, upgradable RAM in PS4 and Xbox 720. What do you think?

[madjedi]

Yeah gears 2 looks good, but it only looks more detailed than the first one from what little i have seen. I guess i am an oddball, in that i am excited more than a non unreal 3 engine game looks as good or better than unreal engine 3 games.

And guns and swords and unreal tournament 3 looks almost as good, basically as gears 2 and that was released in dec 07 for the ps3.

So can you try picking an exclusive non unreal engine game, as ut3 for the ps3 indicates the console is capable of running of running gears 1 or 2.

[367 To Your Ass]

the creator of UT3 said that the engine that gears 2 uses has much better implemented features than all of the games before it.

and GEARS OF WAR 2 is a 360 exclusive, and it looks way better than ps3's exclusive "MGS4"

MGS4 uses an old MGS engine that was tweaked a bit with some new features, thats all, gears was born on a next gen console.

360 can run MGS4 as well and that engine is just a tweaked engine.

[ChrisGTR1]

LOL. just look at the comments, all the true fanboys lash out. do you honestly think your opinion is more valid than a game developers?

[MANCREEP]

but Epic developers did say that the Gears Of War 2 UNREAL Engine was completely overhauled, its a NEW version of the Engine.

This was in the June Issue of EGM, quite a while after UT3 for PS3 was released. And they also talk about how hard it was to get UT3 to run properly on PS3, using the OLD unreal engine.

So, I wouldnt take 367's word over a Developers, no, but its not really an arguement when they are both on the same page.

And yes the engine MGS4 uses is old, it was tweaked for better textures and framerates. But that doesnt mean its not pretty good looking either.

[jden28]

Sony fanboys are all in an uproar how dare some one say that the almighty ps3 isn't the most powerful thing since the g5. Every ones talkin about the cell cpu as if it's the second coming, and you know what it is an amazing cpu. But its difficult to program for 1 ppe 1 vpu and 7 spe's and all. It has an enormous learning curve that starts off really high then then plummets when you learn how to use the spe's in tandem. The ps3's spe's act like a pack of pirhanah Compare that to the xbox360's 3 ppe's 3 vpu, which starts off with a very low learning curve to get started then has a huge up take to get the most out of the 3 vpu's. The xbox360 acts more like a tiger shark it just does alot more with less effort (" at first!") then you have to use its 3 oscor fish to do the rest. Oh I'm sorry nobody's talking about the xbox360's vpu's no developers, no xbox fans, and certainly no sony fans, nobodys talking about them because no ones used them in tamdem with ppe's yet. Sony fans should remember vpu's, there the reason god of war looked so good on ps2 and the reason why ps2 DID eventually look better than dreamcast games. Bottom line bothe cosoles have really good cpu's and gpu's the difference is that while the ps3 was harder to start the xbox360 is just harder later in the learning curve.

[Infernus]

First of all maybe "Look at all the facts" isn't the best way to start a post without quoting sources to back you up, but anyway let's let that slide.

"the xbox360 is just harder later in the learning curve"

I think the difficulty comes in actually being able to get any more out of the console and fit that onto a DVD9. You can push and push a console but unless you can actually get the product out there on a disc you'll never reap the rewards. The 360 is limited by the format medium, the PS3 is limited by it's steep learning curve.

Once the devs get to know the PS3 they can push and push as much as they like, the harder they push the better it'll look, simple as.

With the 360, they can push and push but eventually (pretty soon) they'll find the 360 just doesn't house the right hardware to go any further. There are limitations and the 360 has a huge limitation with the shared 512RAM. One source of RAM and those 3 cores want to get at it. I liked your analogies btw (the Tiger Shark and the Piranhas), I'd compare it to a pack of lions feeding on a gazelle (360) and 2 dogs feeding from seperate bowls (PS3). For the Wii, it's a goldfish slowly gobbling pellets.

The PS3 is better designed for faster processes, the 360 is better designed for simplicity of use. Once the challenge of the PS3 cores is conquered it won't be surpassed again by the 360.

Btw, bubbles for your comment.

[Infernus]

I see a lot of people including Uncharted in their reasoning. This is a really underrated game, lots just gloss over it as if it's meant to be used as an extra point in a pro-PS3 argument but Uncharted really does look amazing. I remember Christmas time again now... The waterfalls, the wet rocks shining in the Sun. Yep, the PS3 can acheive top quality textures, it's just up to the developers.

The 360 seems to be similar to a PC in terms of the development (no surprise there when considering who designed it) and MS have done that on purpose to easily allow for PC/360 interchange 'Games for Windows' and all that. To me (with no degree-equivalent programming experience) the 360 is the safe option to dev a game for. By safe I definitely don't mean bad, I'd develop my first game for 360 rather than PS3, it's less of a challenge to put out a good product.

The PS3 is the enigma of the gaming world, many still simply don't believe it's the better console. Most disagree about it being able to produce better looking games than the 360, but in time that's just what will happen. The PS3 has enough power (and spu's lol) to pump out some amazing games. But the devs haven't yet got to grips with the complete PS3 package. If I were a betting man, which I'm not, I'd say that within a few years the PS3 will be unmatched graphically.

Future development is something we can only speculate about, but I can see the 360 hitting a very hard wall and rebounding off it while the PS3 opens the door and walks on through.

Time will tell...

[ChrisGTR1]

well for all the ps3 has extra like cell and blueray it shure is pretty lackluster. graphic wize gears is comparable to uncharted and mgs4. and it fit onto a dvd. the whole blueray thing is completely overrated. did you know theres only 2 360 games that use more than 1 dvd? and there both rpgs from the same developer.

[madjedi]

Actually the sony fanboys are in a uproar, because the dev has his head up his ass by saying the ps3 only has 256 memory, when every dev worth his salt should know how much mem it actually has.

Well i guess epic did revamp the engine for gears 2, not a 360 owner so not a big deal to me. As for gears 2 looking way better, i don't know about that, that might be a style preference, but then again it has 5 months left on it.

Oh well when epic makes gears 3 for the ps3 and the 360 then we can compare that.

Again i would like a 360 owner to come up with a title exclusive to the 360 that doesn't use the u3 engine, that looks real good.
It would help "367" if you answered my proposed question, although i'll give you points for stating mgs4 uses a revamped old engine vs a new one.

The unreal engine clone games are lacking a sense of unique style to them, although dark sector might be an exception not sure if it uses unreals engine. Thats why i am starting to hope devs use there own custom engine, rather than do the lazy ass(relative) decision buy/license an engine.

[Infernus]

Dark Sector was made using the U3E. What a great game btw!

I agree, these U3E games are lacking individuality now. There's only so much you can do with an engine.

Gears looked grey to me, most U3E games do, it's what they do best: the colour grey. Gears 2 looks better, they still have some time to work on it but not as long as people are saying, they still have to completely test it and optimise it yet.

Hopefully Epic will make a great game for the 360 guys to enjoy. However, MGS4 is the most complete game I've played in years. The story is one of the best and the way it's put together is unrivalled in the games industry today.

Lots of 360 games use the U3E because it's easy to add some last minute gloss and bloom and make it look great (and all shiny). People thinks that makes a game look better than something that's been made from scratch and is more unique. Personally, I got for 'uniqueness' and I'll bring out Uncharted as my proof. That game looks amazing, isn't all grey and hasn't got oddly shiny bits of texturing all over the place, everything looks... real.

Still, let's give Epic the benefit of the doubt and see if they can produce something stunningly beautiful and unique.

[lokin]

Dark sector uses the Evolution Engine NOT Unreal Engine

[Mr Fancy Pants]

I finished MGS4 right now and the game is simply a masterpiece and that is what hurts more the xbots. They can't have it.. lol ;-)

The x360 can't handle it. If you don't have a PS3 you never going to experience games as epic as MGS4 is, that's why we have FF games as exclusive and not some other Jrpg that can be done easily on a PS2(obviously not talking of graphics).

[GiantEnemyCrab]

I'm not even going to read the fishhead comments but I can already sense the booooooooooooooooohooooooooooo ooooooo crying from them.

I can already see the story has an update because of so much crying.

booooooooooooohoooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooo

PS: Get this crap out of the 360 section. I don't care about the limitations of the POS3 and I most certainly don't want to hear the sob crying from the mentally ill droids.

[rbrtchng]

That still doesn't make them right. 256 dedicated GPU RAM is the same as 512/2=256 GPU RAM.

The only difference is distribution. So..the "limitation" of the PS3 hardware is the fact that you can't distribute the 512 RAM however you want. But it doesn't matter at all. If a 360 developer uses 257 GPU RAM, then he can argue that 360 has more GPU RAM; however, then the 360 has less CPU RAM with only 255 CPU RAM. It's all about distribution, and the PS3 has a limited distribution.

But that's not a bad thing. The PS3's Cell was meant to be a GPU in the first place. That's why there's so much RAM dedicated to the CPU to begin with. Developers who program for the 360 usually dedicate all the graphics to the GPU, so they would use more than 256 RAM for GPU and less than 256 RAM for CPU, that makes their game look amazing and run pretty decently. THat's the problem with port, because the PS3 only has 256 RAM for GPU dedicated. But the thing is: these developers don't realize that the Cell is a GPU in itself. So they can reallocate resources to an even 256/256 balance between CPU and GPU, and that would create a better graphical result than a 360 game, sometimes. Most devs don't have the time or the resources to do that, which is why 360 main game and ported to PS3 usually look worse on the PS3 (they just cut the extra GPU RAM from the PS3 version, while leaving excess Cell RAM). What's amazing about the Cell processor is that it's basically 7 cored vs 360's 3 core processor.

So the limitation is really money. The PS3 can look at least as good as the 360 counterparts; however, it costs a lot more to rebuild a game to fit the PS3's architecture than to do a direct port from the 360. So most multiplatform games screw the PS3 for a more polished 360 version.

[Mozef]

hope some would understand that , here a pupple.

[pwnsause]

it makes sense too, which is why if they build on the PS3 first, then they wont have to go thru paying so much money to master such a task

[joeynox]

Whom ever says that the memory structure in the ps3 is better than the 360 is wrong. In the 360 the gpu can take advantage of the the full amount of ram not just half. so since games are graphically intensive it can use more ram than the ps3 can for higherend textures where as the ps3 can only use 256. Both systems use too small amout of ram and to be honest its amazing that both systems can produce games that look this amazing on the small amount of ram they have.

[Common Sense]

it's almost like saying integrated graphics cards that can access system memory are better than discrete graphics cards that don't.

The Ps3 GPU can access the main memory if it needs it. The sytem memory is super fast( 3.2 Ghz vs 700mhz)- that's more than 4 times faster.

And according to your logic, the 360's GPU will be able to use up to 512mb of ram for graphics. If so,there won't be anymore ram left for the CPU. Now tell me, if there isn't ram for the cpu, how will the game run. With unified memory, all the processes aren fighting memory, which creates a bottleneck. If the CPU uses too much ram, the GPU suffers and as a result the textures and the gfx in general suffer.
If the GPU uses too much, the physics, collisions and ALL of the other processes not running on the GPU will suffer tremendously.
To avoid all these issues the developer is never going to use all 512mb of memory.

512mb of memory is suffice for this gen. Consoles don't need 2048mb of memory because they don't have memory hoggin OSes like vista.
360 OS= 32mb of 512mb
Vista= 1gb of 2gb

[CertifiedGamer]

Does it feel good knowing that the 360 keeps holding the ps3 back?
----Actually since most multiplatform games are ports from the 360 version, it would be the PS3 holding the 360 back. 2 great examples, ORANGE BOX, and GTA4. They got another team ENTIRELY to re-develop the game for PS3 owners, but they were fed up with delays and gave 360 owners the game early. And GTA4 had 2 delays b/c of bugs in the PS3 version. If the PS3 is ready to spread it wings and fly, by all means I hope it does so, this will mean more games for me.

well here are the facts.

http://www.gamespot.com/new...

http://www.joystiq.com/2007...

http://www.joystiq.com/2005...

http://www.joystiq.com/2008...

and the earlier stuff were aimed at Power of Green but since you wanna put your 2cents here is my penny

and why am I a douchbag because your mom uses me up along with yo (sister if you have 1) girlfriend(if you aint gay) and any female in yo life that you wanted to sex up and related to you

Be like MANCREEP who gets offended when he doesn't back his comments up and is a str8 up dumbass by the way have fun with you EXbox360 with that RROD see if Microsoft would have delayed you would'nt have had the problem I did in the past afraid of the rrod Im glad I got rid of that xbox360 for the PS3 now all I have is the wii and PS3 would have had the xbox360 but that rrod is wack and guess what I have friends who back the PS3 and have the 360 saying I hate that white piece of SH*T

[jden28]

Everyones talking about the slower memory of the xbox360 from the main ram and the need of both the gpu and cpu to access the main memory i.e(512 mb), this is overcome by the embedded edo memory attatched to the gpu (10mb of ultrafast ram)thats faster than both the xbox360's main ram or the ps3's. People are saying the answer to the p3's split memory arcitecture is to stream the data. Well who's says that you can't use the same steaming tecnique on the 360, the problem is you don't need too. Also never consider a storage medium a system limitation IT'S NOT, It's just storage and developer's will do what they are already used to doing on pc and the other interations of playstation, use multiple disc's. Other than causing you to do a disk swap it does absolutley nothing else to limit the system as neither console can hold 8.5+ gigs worth of data in memory. No xbox 360 games have fully utilized all 3 cores and all 3 vpu's, just as no ps3 game has used all the spe's. The best is yet to come on both consoles and I think we're all in for a few suprises, buth dont' fall pray to pretty names and marketing hype. The 360 was a fast starter and now the ps3 seems to be keeping pace and gaining on it but something tells me that the good ole' boys over in M$ are just preparing to catch there second wind.

[KrimsonKody]

Ya right.PERIOD. Xcrotch iz so whack. I mean, it'z like....so box-xy N stuff. U see, Xbox iz the equivalent 2 a sidekick, every body may have one but it doez'nt mean dat it'z da best phone out there. Oh,... and speakin' of BEST, um,...yeah, dat would be da P!S!3!!!!!;>)

[KrimsonKody]

.........Wii iz hotter than DeathBox...........

[lokin]

everybody is a game dev all of a sudden. You have to sorta agree with the dev (even if the game isnt the best in the world). this is a developer... maybe a bad one but still a dev who has worked on both systems. I believe that PS3 memory management a little harder to work with. it has been stated that the xbox mem management are also not the best, but what I think the dev meant was that if for instance you wanted to load textures in memory and you only have 50mb on the rsx left, you can ONLY get 50mb of data on the RSXs' ram. Thats is what makes it harder to develop for because now they have to use the cells mem path to actually put a simple thing like textures in the memory. Now the way the X handles the memory arent the best either but the adantahe the X has is that the dev dont have to worry about mem management as much as with the ps3. NOW listen up kiddies, because this is VERY,VERY important....BOTH SYSTEM HAVE THEIR OWN PROBLEMS! one system does something better than the other BUT BOTH are allmost EQUAL! you will always get devs that state he/she prefers to develop for a certain system..... so NO SYSTEM is light years better that the other

(propably going to get a crap load of disagrees, but hey... freedom of speech is in anycase a myth)

[yanikins111]

FALE

[lokin]

funny
everybody is a game dev all of a sudden. You have to sorta agree with the dev (even if the game isnt the best in the world). this is a developer... maybe a bad one but still a dev who has worked on both systems. I believe that PS3 memory management a little harder to work with. it has been stated that the xbox mem management are also not the best, but what I think the dev meant was that if for instance you wanted to load textures in memory and you only have 50mb on the rsx left, you can ONLY get 50mb of data on the RSXs' ram. Thats is what makes it harder to develop for because now they have to use the cells mem path to actually put a simple thing like textures in the memory. Now the way the X handles the memory arent the best either but the adantahe the X has is that the dev dont have to worry about mem management as much as with the ps3. NOW listen up kiddies, because this is VERY,VERY important....BOTH SYSTEM HAVE THEIR OWN PROBLEMS! one system does something better than the other BUT BOTH are allmost EQUAL! you will always get devs that state he/she prefers to develop for a certain system..... so NO SYSTEM is light years better that the other

(propably going to get a crap load of disagrees, but hey... freedom of speech is in anycase a myth)

[rbrtchng]

Yeah, they are both excellent and bad in their own regards. However, the PS3 architecture is meant for the devs to use Cell as a GPU. "hats is what makes it harder to develop for because now they have to use the cells mem path to actually put a simple thing like textures in the memory"

They are supposed to do that. That would actually make the game run a lot smoother and have higher graphical potential (because you essentially have 2 GPUs running at the same time). But devs usually don't do this for ports cuz it costs money and time. So yes, PS3 is harder to develop for because you have to learn to reallocate memory between RSX and Cell. But if you put in the effort and time, you can have 2+ GPUs running simultaneously, which produces stunning graphics. But at the cost of core processing power: for every "GPU" added, you lose an equal amount of "CPU".

[leeger]

This RAM issue again. this is like so 1.5years ago.

[RememberThe357]

I have no clue what you guys are talking about.

[sumfood4u]

Upgrade!

[FAQS]

Q: Why this guys insist in posting Bullsh#t about PS3?
A: That's because PS 3 is know on TOP!...That's a desperate way to bash it, look at this kind of news, did you see a pattern? they are always posted when a big release or a major event is on PS3...their timing is completly predictable!...But be aware there will be more!....This kind of bullsh#t of lack of memory of PS3 is not new..It's constatly posted when they see PS 3 on top!...poor guys!

[thehitman]

But you guys also forget he states that if you use the cell effeciently that it makes up for the ram and you can even do more things. 360 all it has is that 512 that devs were use to but with the ps3 they have to code to its multiple cores which they are not use to.

Shuhei Yoshida-President of Sony WW even states:

"But still, they must have been planning, thinking they have enough time, to port the second game to PS3 and release at the same time with the same quality. So they massively underestimated the effort that was needed to re-architect the game to properly take advantage of the PS3's multi-core architecture."

Which is what happens and why games have not run as good as they should in the past. Its not the PS3s fault is the devs fault.

[ryuyasho]

question is this: Was the Playstation 2's 32MB Full System Memory RAM(with only 4MB for Video included in those numbers) a challenge for Devs back in the day??? Look at:

God of War 1 & 2
MGS 2 & 3
Shadow of the Colosus
Silent Hill 2 - 4
FF Sh!t...

I mean, history will repeat itself once more...

Now Haters I salute you... hehehehe

[thehitman]

devs had problems with the ps2 also it just didnt have any direct competition and it released by itself so the problems were never exposed. Still didnt deter then from making great games and games were under much less scrutiny in the past. You see a glitch you just glance it over your game freezes you just take it out clean it reinsert it and graphics lol.....

[JeepGamer]

I think I recall the whole memory limitation thing on the PS2 as well.

Then we got games like Shadow of the Colossus, God of War, Metal Gear Solid 2 & 3, Gran Turismo, ect, ect, ect.

And people quit talking about it.

Let's look at it another way: Is there really a memory problem with the PS3 if we can get games like Heavenly Sword fairly early in the console life? Or games like Call of Duty 4? Or Metal Gear Solid 4? Or Devil May Cry 4? Or the forthcoming Bioshock? If we're getting games this good this early not only on the PS3 but on the 360 as well THIS early in the current console cycle then by the time we reach the end of it we should be astounded.

[thehitman]

Sony said that by the end of the PS3 term there will be the same lvl of difference between when ps2 launched and ps2 now which is A LOT!. Play gta3 and play san adreas your like wow and they released like 4 years from each other so just imagine 4 years from now.

[Enigma_2099]

It doesn't seem to be a problem so far...

[OOG]

Meh whatever who really cares honestly.........

If you really wanted to get technical the GPU in the 360 is more advanced then the PS3s and uses a lot of the same architecture as the new nvidias did with the stream processors being able to dynamically process whatever is thrown its way. This means that it can take whats thrown at it and use whatever resources available instead of having a cap that bottlenecks this card it can choose how many stream processors are needed in order to the tasks at hand.....which makes the card function a lot better then old video cards that had a set amount of resources available for each function.

Also you could also mention how much more ram it takes just to run the PS3 dashboard compared to the 360s.....which is one of their issues with having xmb...since most games made for the ps3 have been made to use all of its available ram not leaving any room for xmb to be accessed and running in the background....

But whatevs both systems have their pros and cons.....no need to dwell they are just systems and they both makes nice looking games.....dont really understand why people argue over this stuff...hell were gamers people...act like it

[DFresh]

FAQS
I gotta agree with you on that when Sony gets something cool MS and Xbots fanboys have to constantly criticize.

Now to answer the arguement.
Sony does have 512MB it's just split up between saving and reading memory.
This would be the main reason why you would install games on your PS3 but at the same up you use less memory by having one save file per game.

[stennexxx]

Ass. Dumb ASS. Stop bashing PS3 and go and play MGS4. Memory problems hell no.

[C_Dub]

I mean, who doesn't run out of memory when using the internet browser?

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

Looks like both sides have good arguments, both which one of you guys is actually a developer at a major game studio. Even if you are, it doesn't mean you will be misled. This one guys opinion based on his research and development in the field.

The bottom line I see is this, fair enough the unified memory architecture of the 360 is slower than the dedicatede memory of the PS3. However, the factor between the memory speeds is likely to be less than 10, but loading textures and streaming it could incure a slowdown factor of thousands if not more due to loading from hard drive. That is a serious problem and a very difficult one to overcome, not to mention you are trying to pre-load or stream textures in a dynamic environment so you have to be able to predict the users actions. That might also be one of the reasons a lot of games require installs now due to the faster load time of hard drives.

A lot of the great looking games on the PS3 is often due to the raw processing power available and it shows in lighting effects or things that take a lot of computation.

I would be interrested to hear more from other programmers