The Truth About Xbox 360 Hardware Failures

When Microsoft Corp. announced last year an extended warranty for Xbox 360 the software giant never disclosed the exact source of the game console's heat problem that led to the fiasco.

Now, in an unlikely venue at Design Automation Conference here, Bryan Lewis, research vice president and chief analyst at Gartner, disclosed that the problem started in a graphic chip. Lewis offered this offhand revelation while discussing the changing ASIC and ASSP landscape for his DAC audience.

"Microsoft wanted to avoid an ASIC vendor," said Lewis. Microsoft designed the graphic chip on its own, cut a traditional ASIC vendor out of the process and went straight to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. Ltd., he explained.

But in the end, by going cheap--hoping to save tens of millions of dollars in ASIC design costs, Microsoft ended up paying more than $1 billion for its Xbox 360 repairs.

The story is too old to be commented.
GiantEnemyCrab3787d ago

"But in the end, by going cheap--hoping to save tens of millions of dollars in ASIC design costs, Microsoft ended up paying more than $1 billion for its Xbox 360 recall."

Recall?? There was no recall, what a load of BS.

This is nothing but a ticked off ASIC vendor who is using words like "recall" to support his idea that "System OEMs have no business designing ASICs any longer".

Hydrolex3787d ago

Gaming !

well, they lost money and that's the reason why my stocks are going down like .....

Kleptic3787d ago

haha load of BS? still cost 1 billion didn't it?...

true there was no recall, which is only used in a case where it can cause property damage, injury, etc...but there is no arguing that MS cut corners with the 360...and paid big time...that is what this article is about...he should've just pointed out that the warranty extension was to unravel the quickly building class action lawsuit that would have most definitely shown up...

GiantEnemyCrab3787d ago

No Kleptic it didn't necessarily cost 1 billion but MS set aside 1 billion. I am not here to defend the build quality of the 360. The RROD problem is real but my comment was this persons use of the word "recall". The product was not recalled but it has a much more dramatic effect to drive home his point of OEM's designing ASIC's.

juuken3787d ago


You know, articles like this is starting to make me think twice about getting a 360 for NG2 and Infinite Undiscovery. MS dropped the ball with this, and even as a 360 fan, you can't deny it. Stop being so blind-sighted by your precious Microsoft and realize that this is part of the reason WHY someone wouldn't own a 360. Microsoft may have all the software in the entire world, or the rpg's wrapped around thir fingers but if a console is unreliable, then you can't play the damn games.

I just hope the console I get doesn't break because if it does, I will not be pleased.

Pain3787d ago (Edited 3787d ago )

How Can u spin it any other way?

and @ Moron Crab kid, Klep is Right there was NO Recall....but.....there was a 'Unofficial Recall' that Voided the law buy extending the warranty buy allowing Faulty boxs to be referb in alloted time, there for no real recall, but costed them in the end 1 billion.

oh n Crap err Crab u forgot to say: M$ DEFENSE FORCE POWERS ACTIVATED!!!!

syanara3786d ago

There was an Xbox 360 Recall incase you don't remember it was not for all xbox 360's mind you but it was a recall never the less the only next gen console that did not have a recall is the ps3. the wii had a recall for the remote thing remember

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 3786d ago
gamesR4fun3787d ago (Edited 3787d ago )

"The Xbox 360 recall a year ago happened because "Microsoft wanted to avoid an ASIC vendor," said Lewis. Microsoft designed the graphic chip on its own, cut a traditional ASIC vendor out of the process and went straight to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. Ltd., he explained."

I can se ms cutting a few corners but bad asic design alone doesnt explain the 33% failure rate.. That and when did they ever recall the 360? Should've heck still should but its never gonna happen.

xhairs3787d ago

The bad design could cause the 33% failure rate. It all depends on where you have your 360 contained, how you take care of it (if you even do), how long you play it etc. etc. So it's not necessarily the design flaw but a mixture of that plus other variables. Recall? No recall, however extended warranties = the big loss.

ravenguard883787d ago

it definitely could be the cause of all the issues. You only need a single insignificant part to fail to disrupt an entire computer system, in this case, I would say generally anything that has to do with the graphics chip failing or malfunctioning would have a HUGE impact on a gaming system.

All we can do is hope that Microsoft has learned from this mistake, and considering what it's cost them, I'm willing to be they have.

mistertwoturbo3787d ago

I believe the next XBOX will be their greatest console of all.

theKiller3786d ago (Edited 3786d ago )

all this just to make sure they robe their customer money!!

and u who will tell me "hey they made a 3 years warranty" should be ashamed of ur self because when u buy a product from any company u dont expect to go to their service every few months and wait for weeks to get back ur product and even worst when they change ur product with another one and looses all the data saved in ur original product

prunchess3786d ago

It couldn't explain the scratched disks issue.

The power supply went on two of my brother in laws 360's. He is on his 3rd 360 (elite) at the moment.

yesah3786d ago

Saying that on a 360 hardware failure article makes, absolutely no sense.

Hububla3786d ago (Edited 3786d ago )

What kinda moronic customer would have a product fail on them 3 times! and yet keep on going out and giving the company that made the product more money!! i mean cmon! obviously the company doesnt care about you yet you still keep going out and giving them ur hard earned money... it just doesnt make any sense..

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 3786d ago
Silogon3787d ago

Xbox 360 is faulty, we know. We've gotten over it and made peace with the idea to play the best games and best versions of multiplatform games we have to take it day by day, but hey it beats playing games on an inferior system.

Thoas3787d ago

LMFAO are you serious??

zapass3786d ago (Edited 3786d ago )

he has to be POG, LOL!
xbots will always have to deal with the fact they:

- are fans of
- give their (mum's?) money to
- religiously support
- zealously defend

a company that knowingly <<< SCREWED >>> them.
as it is obvious now:

- m$ knew
- m$ lied
- m$ failed

name3787d ago

I don't know of any product that breaks that often and doesn't get recalled.

The Lazy One3787d ago

I can think of 2 off the top of my head...

Infernus3787d ago (Edited 3787d ago )

I don't think MS would ever have anything recalled, they'd rather leave it out there and run the risk because there's lots of money up for grabs.

The first time I heard about widespread RROD I thought MS would do the sensible thing and recall it before the problem got worse or more people bought into the 360. I was wrong and MS ended up paying the price.

Unlike those saying 'look they gave us an extended warranty, everything is fine' I never thought the same way, the warranty is blatant proof the 360 is unreliable. You'd have to be blinded by fanboyism to think otherwise.

They should have done one of two things:
Either recall the 360 and fix it.
Design a new variant of the 360 which sorts the problems and release it at the same price the 360 is at now.

Lyan3787d ago

"I don't think MS would ever have anything recalled, they'd rather leave it out there and run the risk because there's lots of money up for grabs."

Not only is that a stupid comment, its extremely bias. They wouldn't recall anything because their Microsoft? C'mon, thats a non sequitur argument and shows you have no grasp on what is being talked about within the article, and thus you should probably take that opinion to the open zone.

I found those 2 news stories is less than a couple minutes about recalls issued by Microsoft. Are they still the devil?

xhairs3787d ago

First of all, a comment or a opinion either or it's accepted here. No need for name calling.

Second, the difference between the 360 and the first article you posted about the wheel overheating recall is this, "The action is being taken after Microsoft was informed of a "very small" number of incidents of a malfunction in the Xbox 360 Wireless Wheel, where a component in the wheel chassis may overheat and release smoke when the AC-DC power supply is used to power the wheel."

There are two parts in that paragraph that stick out to me. The first being, "VERY SMALL" number of units. Thus meaning easier to recall and handle as to the 360 everyone had one, everyone had to return it causing a much bigger hassle.

The second part that sticks out to me would be, "release smoke". The 360 didn't release smoke into the environment however the wheel does. Nobody wants smoke in their household. Let's get it right here. The recall was NEEDED due to the smoke that not environment friendly my friend.

And second, the article about EB Games was an EB Games recall not a Microsoft Recall. Read it and weep not once is Microsoft mentioned in the article.

GG Go download MGS1 on XBL so I can smile while playing MGS4.

CrashSharc3787d ago

I think everything MS is doing on the software side is great (Live, Games etc.) but their arrogance in the hardware department has bit them in the ass well, they deserve it. But the silver lining is that Xbox 720 will be that much better for it.

The Lazy One3786d ago

Arrogance with their hardware? how were they arrogant? Maybe in the performance of it, which they have every reason to be arrogant about, because it performs extremely well so long as it's not breaking.

If you're talking about them being arrogant about the reliability, I've never heard them make an arrogant statement about their reliability. They were actually pretty humble about it after they released the 2 year extension.

Infernus3786d ago (Edited 3786d ago )

I checked those articles and neither are relevent. One is about a wireless wheel and the other is about faulty HDD's, neither of which are recalls by MS as xhairs just stated.

What I was saying before is that MS has tried it's hardest to avoid a 360 recall, the 3 year warranty is the prime example of fobbing people off to avoid losing money when actually the consumer should come first and leaving a defective product on the market is reason enough to take a dislike to MS.

Insult me all you want but that's how I see it and it's not a biased view at all. I use MS's Vista OS and support it I have no issues with MS when it comes to OS's and the PC (unlike so many others) because I can just imagine the sheer number of variables they have to contend with to try and get a stable OS (XP being a great success and Vista will in time), I just hate the way MS handles anything to do with the 360.

They have this way with words that results in them sounding as though they assume they're better than everyone else because they have more money. Yet they skimp out on the components and expect to get away with it.

Why couldn't one of the richest companies in the world fork out a bit more cash to get better components and prevent this issue ever occuring? The most likely reason is that they wanted to spend the least and gain a lot, but what ended up happening was they got caught out and paid the price, quite literally.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 3786d ago
ActionBastard3787d ago

The truth? It's $300 DVD player.

dragunrising3787d ago

Otherwise that's a very harsh assessment. I don't believe DVD players are able to play Xbox 360 games. Try again with a little less gusto.

deeznuts3787d ago

It is a harsh statement ... to good dvd players out there! The 360 is not a good dvd player and definitely not a good upconverter.

ActionBastard3787d ago (Edited 3787d ago )

What's really funny is 360s can't even play 360 games. Can you game with a RROD? What about a disc read error? It may be harsh, but the truth hurts sometimes. Try again with a little more thought.

SixZeroFour3787d ago

meh...i wouldnt take your comment too seriously, after all it looks like you only have a yea

BTW im judging that you only have a ps3 cause you only have a ps3 tag, thats all

ALSO put it this way...can a DVD EVER play an xbox 360 game, yes, the 360 can, at times not play 360 games (never happened to me tho, neither has the rrod) but that doesnt mean it can NEVER play an xbox game...the same cant be said about a DVD player

Bucky Sligo3787d ago

Last time I checked there where more than 10 million people on xbox live. so I guess you can take your troll/PS3 fanboy statements to the open zone. Also, for a $300 dvd player, it displays GTAIV at a higher resolution than your precious PS3, ouch!

Infernus3787d ago

There's a difference to a multiplat game running at a lower resolution on the secondary platform but the 360 can't be a true HD console when one of the biggest exclusives to hit the 360 (Halo 3) wasn't even in true HD.

Attack the PS3 all you want but it's always been THE HD console and the 360 tagged along with HDMI when the PS3 proved it was the better Hd option. MS prefer to look at what their competitors do well and jump on the bandwagon when things get profitable, they've tried to go after Apple's iPod, they jumped in (Excuse the pun) with Sony and Nintendo on the console market and then carried out the biggest coverup in console history by telling fans the failure rate was being overstated, which was MS's desperate attempt to save the 360, which everyone lapped up.

Everyone goes along with whatever MS claims and then start blindly defending them, like you guys are now.

The 360 is officially the least reliable system ever produced, plays just DVD's in a HD environment and has to use compression with all games to get them to fit and yet MS claim it's the best games console. With a failure rate like that, no matter how good the games may be the reliability is a major talking point for electronics and MS have failed badly in that department. I'll never get a 360 until they fix the problem, which they still haven't yet say they have...

3787d ago
reccodog3787d ago

Micorosft is a dirty company. They do things for money NOT there consumers. There consumers are blinded by the fact that Microsft is still selling a fualty console and people are that stupid to STILL buy it. The real point that BUCKY SILIGIO was trying to make does not make sence at 3.8. He was jumping all over the place. Has he forgotn that the ps3 has much more to offer at a low price? Has he forgottn all the great exclusives for the ps3, has he forgottn that the ps3 doesn't break down. Has he forgottn that the ps3 offers free features that you HAVE to payfor for the 360. I thank he is the most blinded man or Girl that I ever seen. As for Microsoft puting horribal hardwar in there badly designed system, it is very like theme to cut corners just to jump into a market befor some other company does. Soon there going to jump into the oil marked, THEN WE WOULD BE SKEREWD!

MikeGdaGod3787d ago

i couldn't agree more. you said everything i was thinking.


dragunrising3787d ago (Edited 3787d ago )

News flash: all console manufacturers are in the business of making money. Infernus/reccodog- if you read the article and comprehended it- you wouldn't be so bold in your accusations. To summarize, M-soft created the design for their own graphics chip rather than outsourcing to someone who knew what they were doing. Keep in mind this is not uncommon. In order to cut costs they designed their own chips...and screwed up. They are paying for it, you aren't. They also didn't wait for blu-ray/hd-standard to release their console. Sony did. They used their own console as a trojan horse for blu-ray...not exactly in the best interest for gamers. Taking into consideration there was ZERO to play on the PS3 until 6 months ago, I along with others are glad they released earlier than later. No blu-ray? I don't see the difference. No, hdmi? They added it and the difference is negligible. Every point you make is inconsequential. You talk about Sony like they are a person. Wtf is wrong with you? You play games for fun, not for personal gratification your PS3 is better or worse than your neighbors 360. Sorry to break your bubble but the 360 is a max of 1080p native. Why are PC games still on DVD? How did the best looking game created thus far, Crysis, fit on a DVD? So many many answers. Its called compression. Quality is not compromised with good compression. Judging by the several cross-platform comparisons, DVD holds its own pretty well. Also, there aren't any hard drive installs. Funny...I thought blu-ray was the end all of optical formats. You have a lot of hate for something you've never owned.

kewlkat0073787d ago

Talk being delusional....

Only Ps3 fanboys will take that sentence so literal.

What's really funny is this guy belongs in the Open Zone. tTalk about wanting attention. Ok no more from me.

Here is an "agree", I'm sure thats what your after. Ha!

ActionBastard3787d ago (Edited 3787d ago )

Ok. Here is where it may get confusing. Which 360 is 1080p? Any 360 with only a component connection is 1080i, sorry. You could only get 1080p by connecting VGA until they released the "HDMI isn't necessary" version. Segmenting your install base is anything BUT smart. Crysis, a 8-10hr game, fitting on a DVD is wows you? Compression only gets you so far, just ask Rockstar and Capcom. It also compromises quality and performance, but I guess being able to say "It fit!" makes it all worth it.

2cents3787d ago (Edited 3787d ago )

There should be NO difference to multi platform games, if you claim the PS3 is infact so superior then by your logic every multi should be the same or higher res than the 360 counter part. you know, with no need for compression and having BLU-RAY n all.

360 was launched before the PS3 and if you do your research you will find there were hardly ANY HD TV's with HDMi as a connection as it was still being finalized. Just like sky HD the first gen boxes outputted 720p via component, 1080p wasn't even official at that time and NO tv's existed with that res. When HDMI became standard and HDCP was finalized, Sky and 360 re-released with HDMI output and the 360 then allowed 1080p. "the 360 tagged along with HDMI when the PS3 proved it was the better Hd option." Do you even know why HDMI was created? look it up, it doesn't have anything to do with gaming. idiot.

360 Hardware is definitely the worst issue for MS, but they are and will continue to do something about it.
It's your right to not want a 360 or want to hate MS for their choices, but don't try state facts you dont even have the knowledge about. It saddens me that there are so many so-called experts on this site, making up sh1t as they go along and then have all the trolls agree with them. oh well.

CrashSharc3787d ago

he's got balls. But in all honesty, if you can't play a game with RROD and Disc Read error, you can't play DVD's either.... So calling it a $300 DVD player because of RROD is Erroneous... it's actually a $300 piece of #@@%^$%*&...


RacingX3787d ago

There should be no difference, but when publishers (ea, cough-cough) are just looking to make a quick buck, they are more than likely just just re-converting lines of code and doing just enough optimizing to get it to run to save $$$ and make a few bucks off that shotty port, then yes it will be inferior. If you have a separate team that knows cell programming, that can optimize code and assets as they are done by a main team then you will have results like COD4, if your team is comprised of dedicated cell programmers, artists, animators then you get titles like Uncharted, Ratchet, MGS4.
As far as the HDMI argument, the same could be said that M$ didn't have the foresight to know that HDMI will become more and more prevalent on HDTVs, heck the same could be said about using a DVD drive instead of an HD DVD drive. Ponder this.... how different would the gaming/entertainment landscape be if M$ made the HD DVD drive the standard in the 360? 17+ million HD dvd players? blu ray might be dead, the PS3 could be in real hot water, instead, M$ let Sony off the mat and maybe Sony is now getting its wits back and may turn around and TKO M$....and they wont let them off the mat either.

2cents3786d ago

What I was commenting on is the choice of words and one-sided dumbness expressed by some posters. You see the point of my comment is to make people think about what they say, and you did just that, and I thank you for thinking about what you said. I want nothing more than PS3 360 and the Wii to have kick ass games.

HDMI on the other hand I dont agree with you. I hate using my knowledge as an example but I work in custom installation, HD distribution around the house home cinema etc, and I host the training sessions for new employees on how to. There is way to much to go into but you can find the info on the net if you want. The bottom line was MS stated they will release HDMI as and when it was viable, one whole year after launch is when HDMI went mainstream and even then we had a number of changes in the format. Which caused untold issues for early adopters and my clients.

With regards to HD-DVD, many believed that MS should have shipped with HD-DVD but again, timeframe, cost, format finalization all were still up in the air. So it just doesn't make good business sense to release a product that supports a format that has yet to be implemented to the public. Another dirty tactic that has been floating about is that MS supported HD-DVD to delay the adoption of blu-ray. Also HD-DVD was not MS's baby, it was toshiba, where as sony is blu-ray so they had full control over the product placement and implementation.

RacingX3786d ago

First off, bubbles for you my friend for not posting a 'nasim, firstknight, themart' comment or just hitting the disagree button.
While I agree that these were new technologies, I think my point was that Sony was willing to take the risk to add new 'unproven' technologies with HDMI & Bluray, the Cell etc. but they weathered the storm, they took huge criticism from everyone but now look like such an innovator by having these items as standard. Granted it was Sony that kept pushing to make bluray the standard and the PS3 was the trojan horse to do it, but it happened just like they did with DVD and the PS2. M$ always seems to wait until its 'cool' then they try make it a bit better and say "look what we did" They have never 'created' something new, everything from windows os, to the mouse, etc was taken from something else and just re-implemented. I see your points and your opinion, but I feel if M$ really wants to be a force they have to be willing to that risk.

Xbox is the BEST3786d ago

1080P over component for games if your TV accepts the signal.

Infernus3786d ago (Edited 3786d ago )

"There should be NO difference to multi platform games, if you claim the PS3 is infact so superior then by your logic every multi should be the same or higher res than the 360 counter part. you know, with no need for compression and having BLU-RAY n all."

That's not how it works. The systems work differently and require different kits to program for. The easiest way to make a game currently is to make it on the 360 (as it's been out longer and easier to develop for) then port it to PS3.

By doing this the PS3 version can never reach it's full potential because it's limited by the quality of the 360 version and because it's a coded port the PS3 version is likely to have issues.

The biggest problem currently is that if devs would just take the PS3 aside and get to grips with it instead of focusing on using the 'easier' 360 as the primary system the PS3 would pump out better multiplats. Look at Burnout Paradise, created primarily on PS3 and it ran smoother on PS3 than 360. Whereas GTA4, created primarily on 360, had less issues on 360 than PS3.

It's not as straight forward as one console being better than the other so the games should be better immediately. It's solely down to the devs, the kits used and what system it's built for primarily.

The PS3 has more processing power and blu-ray allows for bigger games, it's just a multiplat can't use the extra space because it had to fit on a DVD9 first.

If it's the other way round and developed for PS3 first and the whole blu-ray is filled then a 360 version is impossible, so a multiplat can't be made that way either. The 360 restricts the PS3 and vice versa, which is why exclusive games like MGS4 are said to show the potential of the PS3 because the tools of the PS3 can be used fully for once, not limited by the space required for a 360 game.

"It's your right to not want a 360 or want to hate MS for their choices, but don't try state facts you dont even have the knowledge about."

I don't hate MS, I just disagree with how they handle the 360 issues. Everything I stated is either proven in news like the reliability issues or the HD capabilities of the Ps3 out of the box.

"Do you even know why HDMI was created? look it up, it doesn't have anything to do with gaming. idiot."

I never said it had anything to do with gaming. HDMI being a High Definition Multimedia Interface cable capable of transmitting both digital audio and visual signals down the same cable was first introduced way back in 2003. HDMI was created to support HDTV's and the respective players/recorders etc that were to be produced. It is basically an upgraded VGA cable.

Gaming in HD is relatively new and was never originally considered, but having a HDMI connection is now standard on all HD sets because HDMI is the current HD standard. Sony knew it would be the standard, why? Because they sell HDTV's and would have been in further development at the time the PS3 was being readied, also the HDMI cable had been available several years prior to both the 360 and Ps3 launches, why MS didn't include it has nothing to do with there being inadequate HD support, it was cost-based, MS cut costs by including a standard DVD drive and standard support for output/input cables. Plus, Sony developed the PS3 in Japan which is currently ~5 years ahead technologically in development than anywhere else in the world. They have holographic projectors in development currently (Like OLED's) and are researching into making household maintainence robots.

I may not have all the answers to every tech item in the history of mankind but I never put down blatant lies in my posts to mislead others I present my own opinion of the news surrounding the topic, and I'm not an idiot lol.

2cents3786d ago

Much better, less hate and more sense.
I agree with some of what you said, especially about the PS3 development, and its HD capabilities out of the box. Sony was a firm believer in the HD revolution and they placed a much larger bet than MS, but they had almost a year for the industry to develop accordingly. MS made some risky choices with jumping the gun on release and it has cost them badly in some areas and given them an advantage in others.
The only thing I get upset about is when attacks are made on the 360 PS3 and Wii.

"Attack the PS3 all you want but it's always been THE HD console and the 360 tagged along with HDMI when the PS3 proved it was the better Hd option. MS prefer to look at what their competitors do well and jump on the bandwagon" I guess that was what caused me to call you an idiot. mainly because it is an opinionated implication with no real substance other than to generate hate.

High Definition, is a resolution and nothing more
HDMI, is a medium in which the signal can be carried through, along with VGA, DVI and Component.
HDCP is the copy protection for HD Video to prevent piracy.

Now, the 360 is an HD console, the definition of this is based on the resolutions that the console outputs. Not the connection it uses. Any sub HD game is up-scaled to fit the native 720p resolution, thus retaining the HD aspect. Later MS not wanting to completely miss the boat on HD movies, incorporated a HDMI elite sku and released a HD-DVD add on. This allowed consumers who wanted the option to play HD-DVD's now had the choice, all be it a bitter one for early adopter who have to have everything. But the heart of the 360 experience was very much MS controlled, Xbox live, XBLA, online download services and of coures gaming.

Now Sony on the other hand wanted a completed HD experience, gaming and Movies. They learned from betamax and that aggression was going to be the key to succeed. Sony developed Blu-ray, own sony pictures and corporate control over many other film studios, produce the HD tv's, and the Blu-ray disc. They had a unique opportunity that no other could match. Controlling so many aspects of the future generation, they combined all of their knowledge and expertise in creating the ultimate HD experience, and the PS3 was born. And what a machine it is!

HDMI: in a very basic nutshell, We all know video piracy is out of control. The industry wanted something to tackle the issue and with the HD revolution on the horizon they need to think fast for a solution. HDMI and HDCP was born. In order to prevent copying of HD media, High Definition Copy Protection was needed by creating a way to recognize what was connected to it, when the video signal is sent so is a code which the playback device needs to confirm with a "handshake" once this is complete than the content can be displayed, without this then the video will be played back in standard resolution.

This has no bearing on gaming, or the quality of games on the PS3 or 360. The 360 is predominantly a games machine so that is why HDMI is not required other than to be able to get around the industry adoption of HDCP in their panels, some sets will not accept 1080p unless it is via HDMI using HDCP. Where as the PS3 IS a gaming AND HD Blu-Ray player, so they HAVE to have HDMI, absolutely no choice in the matter.
Both machines are TRUE HD games consoles but the PS3 is also a true HD-player aswell.

Well, i think i better stop. Infernus, its been fun :)

+ Show (19) more repliesLast reply 3786d ago