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DirectX 12 Will Accelerate Yebis' Performance, Xbox One Cloud Can Render Very Realistic Worlds

Silicon Studios' Masaki Kawase talks about the benefits of Microsoft's upcoming graphics API.

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NextLevel1566d ago (Edited 1566d ago )

It use to be 10x and 40x more powerful.

"@skidoo800R Depends on exactly what you are doing with the system. For purely local compute functions closer to 10x + Cloud.
— Phil Spencer (@XboxP3) June 18, 2013"

"@skidoo800R Cloud gives more, cloud really depends on game. Dedicated servers, async compute etc. gives devs more options. 10x is local.
— Phil Spencer (@XboxP3) June 18, 2013"

From Phil his self.

http://www.vg247.com/2013/0...

Now it's worlds. Give me a break. What the cloud is capable of seems to jump around alot, from making the Xbox One 40x more powerful to blowing up a building. What's true, what's not.

" Xbox One is technically 40 times more powerful than Xbox 360"
http://www.dvice.com/2013-5...

kingdip901566d ago

The truth is that microsofts cloud is for more than just gaming.

On commercials it's advertised as I way to save files, movies and music for easy access anywhere. All those servers bought were never said to be just for games but just for microsofts cloud.

The dedicated servers piece of the cloud is for gaming.

All the hype is just marketing bs

Bennibop1566d ago

I agree its exactly the same as ps network does if you have PS4, PS3, PSV and Experia share all movies, saves, photos (playmemories) and music through cloud its nothing new just Microsoft are advertising and talking it up a lot more.

MasterCornholio1566d ago

I use the cloud all the time. Whether its with my computer, PS4 or mobile device. In all those devices its used to store things like documents, saves, photos etc. I doubt that the cloud can be used to render a movie like Avatar in realtime on a console.

Volkama1566d ago (Edited 1566d ago )

@MasterCornholio, I'm not sure even the wildest of MS fanboy is claiming the cloud will render Avatar in real time for XBox players :)

We know MS are attempting to utilise it for destruction in Crackdown, that's pretty much the most specific commitment they have made (that shows any real ambition anyway). So Crackdown should be a fair measure of whether or not they can deliver.

nicksetzer11566d ago (Edited 1566d ago )

Hmmm, so first the fanboys say, cloud "doesn't exist," then they show star mapping and release games with cloud AI.

they say "well it can't render anything." MS shows it rendering large scale particle rendering.

They say it was "faked" or onpy worked because it was a "a PC" (clearly don't get how internet works...) another dev completely seperate from MS says they can RENDER an entire world.

Now we are all the way around to "so what does it do?" .... the answer? AI, world rendering, physics rendering, static texture rendering, LOD and draw rendering, and more.

It is kinda silly to deny it when
-E3 stars were mapped in real time using the cloud
-titanfall calculated all AI in the cloud
-a physics based destruction model through cloud.
- not to mention all the cloud demos that nvidia has had.

It is getting pretty insane to still be denying it's existence and potential capability.

@dante That is equivalent to saying I buy the theory of gravity hook line and sinker. The process not only exist it has been used for YEARS, using it in a different capacity does not suddenly make it non-existent. My only question is if they have the ability to do it with the current ROI, it cost a lot to provide on such a mass scale. ONlive and gaikai are 2 great examples of the possibility of data computed on a server and processed locally. With such minimal latency controller input is still tangible.

However, my prior job (as a statistical engineer) I used data servers to process algorithms and string data in real time and contructed million (sometimes billions) of data point instantly. (All calculated and rendered locally, not 100% server based) That was 6 years ago on a ~10MB/s.

@mixolydian unfortunately the server based services you are referring to are indeed different than what is being presented with the cloud MS is creating. (And not just because one has to do with gaming one doesn't) In the instances you are referring to there is no effect of latency, almost no local processing is being done, (that is the part most people are unsure about sychronisity/latency of local and server data) and both the latency and refresh rate of said data is FAR to slow to put in synchronisity woth another compute unit.

That aside, despite those qualms, you are correct in saying that this technology is neither new, nor impossible. I just want to clarify before people start pointing out those descrepencies to further their own agenda.

dantesparda1566d ago Show
extermin8or1566d ago

To everyone on this thread posting "oh peopke said it wasn't possible blah blah blah now look" comments. What people actually said was it was theoretically possible to a point (not quite as exagerated as MS had said) and was not a new idea by any means. However the MAJORITY of people wont have internet at the level required todo anything significant neither will they have anytime soon assuming people ever reach the bandwidth and low latency that would be needed. Wtf is the point in spending time and money on a feature most of your market base will not experience properly anytine soon? There is no point. So and I maintain this about crackdown aswell that a) that demo was nothing a good graphics card can't do and b) anything done anytime soon using the crowd will either be played in a downscaled form by most players because their web cant handle it and they might even be oblivious to this without comparing it directly or it will not be all as impressive as the marketing teams etc have been saying. It's really that simple. Nothing else to it.

mixolydian_id1566d ago (Edited 1566d ago )

'Cloud' isn't just network storage. It's a tag line to simplify it's use to the end user.

Im no network engineer but where I work we have 30,000 student +10,000 staff remotely accessing licensed programs, storage, operating systems, unique policies and credentials linked to each and every room within the company. Raid/remote servers mean next to no downtime, only slight disruption. Updates are rolled out when a user isnt accessing their remote desktop.

Were just about to roll out a remote access Adobe CC to everyone using a site license... the software will be remotely updated daily direct from Adobe whilst the user isn't using their computer.

The computers staff are using have a mere 4gb of local storage... and actually don't contain HDD's... They also use generic integrated graphics cards. The virtual adobe photoshop was already rolled out and works and if you didn't know it can be a very costly program to use when using realtime drawing techniques.

I can even access my desktop computer wirelessly through my phone or tablet. Including all relative software.

Remote server processing is real and the sooner Dev's learn about networking engineering... the sooner we will see the change it has to offer.

p.s to elaborate, before I started working at this company, I would've thought it hype and BS, but I've seen it and seeing is believing.

Saigon1566d ago (Edited 1566d ago )

@mixolydian_id

That is a different type of network that you are explaining. Yes it is cloud based but it is different than rendering graphics in real time. Most of the items you stated are directly hosted instead of streamed directly when called upon. What you are stating is what most companies have been doing for years the only difference is that they are using the 'cloud' terminology versus network. So don't get me wrong, I do hope MS does discover a simplistic way of rendering graphics on the fly but I do not think it is currently possible because we do not have a consistent infrastructure to accomplish. If everyone was running on average 30-40 Mbps; no one would complain but that is not the case. I just got finished reading an article where it stated India had one of the slowest averages when it came to internet speeds at 3.5 - 4.5 Mbps. There are some areas in the US where that is the max.

Also these little infrastructure setups is one reason why MS wanted to try CBG - Cloud Based Gaming. Azure is setup for many software programmers to to host content for their networked application. This is nothing new but it will be new for gaming. Rendering content (AI, particle effects)/graphics on the fly would be amazing.

On-topic: didn't MS state a week or two ago that DX12 would not have a significant impact as most would think. So why is gamingbolt.com still doing articles like this. I could understand explaining what DX12 would do to your middleware but do not make claims or word it where it looks as though they are overstepping MSs statements.

k3rn3ll1566d ago

Truth is the number changes because it depends on what time frame from now ur talking about. Since it wont be Up to customers to upgrade hardware, theoretically it could expand more and more as the variables increase (MS server upgrade, land line band with Increases, programming capabilities developing, and more). That would explain alot because if you say 7 years from now what will the power be its a hard thing to peg down. Consider if they do prove its worth and capabilities how much companies from all over the world would want a peice of it. The possibilities would only be limited by a band with and ping. And no one can say what that will be in 5 years. But it wont be less than now. So you do have that constant on ur side. If they can do it with low band with, say half of the world wide average, your looking at alot you can work with there. Then you will start to see breakthroughs from other people outside MS. Its how tech grows. Hard to predict that

Azzanation1566d ago

Shouldn't claim something as overhyped or marketing when you have no idea yourself. No one knows how powerful MS cloud is, only MS. If they say it can do all these things well then we have to wait and see. The problem with fanboys today is there's no such thing as waiting, only "show me now".

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StifflerK1566d ago

We'll just have to wait and see - Crackdown is being made by Cloudgine .

http://www.cloudgine.com/

They seem pretty confident in the tech - but seeing it in action would be better than any PR talk.

The demo from the build conference was impressive ,

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

but to what extent this will make it into the final game remains to be seen.
If it lets me knock down a few buildings - cool , but if it lets me level the entire city - that'd be amazing.

Volkama1566d ago

And if it just totally fails to impress after such specific ambition, that's fairly conclusive proof that the tech is nothing to be excited about right now.

If they fail to deliver on it I will join the dismissive crowd, but for now I will remain cautiously optimistic :)

Christopher1566d ago (Edited 1566d ago )

***We're delivering rendering and processing power from the cloud, allowing game creators to define new ground-breaking online gaming mechanics.***

Online gaming mechanics...

In a single-player game...

IMHO, there's no need to waste online resources of this level on a single-player game. If there's an online mode, fine. But, otherwise... why?

Volkama1566d ago

cgoodno, if it can make that single player game better then that is surely reason enough?

The more cynical side of me also says "it's perfect DRM", but putting that aside I say if the technology has the potential to make my games better then damn-well tap it, don't hold back just because some people that aren't me might not be connected!

Christopher1566d ago

@Volkama: "cgoodno, if it can make that single player game better then that is surely reason enough? "

It greatly depends.

First, if a game can't stand on its own, is it worth buying?

Second, are we now to review games based on whether there's an Internet connection or not?

Third, how much of what is expected is reliant on the Internet connection? Will non-Internet connected games have crappy AI? Remove destructible environments? Change the gameplay in some great way that makes it truly different? If not, then what's the point of the cloud as a selling point?

Just, so many questions on it. I know it's possible. The question is to what level to make it worth someone's time while not making it affect those without it as well as to not make it a cost that MS can't afford without having to pass it onto the user?

k3rn3ll1566d ago

Seriously tho your talking about a very small amount of people thay aren't. Sony said said 95% of there users are online. We didnt have this conversation when games like CoD were made tailored to Live users. Why is this any different? Why should they sacrifice the improvements of tech and enjoyment of millions just to not piss off the maybe 100000 that arent connected? Especially if it can be a scalable to where the non connected users can only do as much as the cpu can handle. It is 2014. There are decent connections offered in every corner of the globe except places without energy supplies. But they wont be playing either. I understand I have had to live without internet at several points in my adult life. But I've had internet for the majority of the past 18 years. If it is a monetary problem for some that is fine. I've been there. But when I didnt have internet I certainly wasnt spending my money on $400 consoles and $60 games. Not to mention the fact that if you feel that gaming is so important to you that you would buy the console without having internet, your most likely buying alot of games because if its that important your spending alot of time and are going to burn through single player campaigns quite quick. So you've got quite a bit of money in the long run. So how many people are like that? And how valuable are their sales in the long run to say nope we can't have improvements because a small minority will feel bad if they only have 2015 graphics and everyone else is a couple years ahead of them. Honestly if those people get pissed and feel everyone should suffer because they afford it, screw em. Those are very selfish aholes and i dont feel bad about saying it.

Its funny how people (on the internet) can argue against features (on the internet). Maybe ill call up Ford and tell them they having to stop making fully loaded vehicles because I can only afford 25000 for a new car and and not 35000. How many of you people that are against cloud improvements on single player have Xbox one and Have Live? Dont worry ill check back and count. You all can disagree all tou want I dont care. This is real life! This is how everything works! Time to grow up and stop being so selfish that other people have to suffer because you can't afford internet or live. There will still be perfectly good I offline games for you. Go whine to ur senators and representatives if its that big of deal. /dropmic

UltraNova1566d ago

Volkama and cgoodno are onto something.

I have to admit that since Titanfall I was skeptical of this but after they failed to prove anything it made me stop doubting.

Oh MS you sneaky you...

They tried DRM the straight way, they got their ass kicked and now the found a way to bring it back not only with no backlash but in a way made their fans crave for it as it very cleverly disguised just like a Trojan Horse as free power-up for the xb1...

Titanfall was supposed to reveal the cloud's power, well I didnt see anything not possible even by last gen systems. The new train now is Crackdown which is touted to do that all over again.

Ask yourselves, is crappy AI and falling bricks a fair trade off for DRM through the back door?

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ramiuk11566d ago

i thin kthe thing iswith cloud is it should give everyone a better connection online as more local servers.
I have a ps4 and although i love it,sony really needs to upgrade its online still.

corvusmd1566d ago (Edited 1566d ago )

Sounds like there is some potential to cloud on the horizon. Hopefully it pans out to meet expectations (at least the realistic ones,not the exaggerated ones). So far it hasn't been "seen", but it does allow for some cool AI to one game (which is already being using in it's successor that isn't out yet), and also allows one of the best selling X1 games to exist at all....so at least it's already doing something right. If later it allows for more graphical power, etc that is only good news for gamers. We know that the concept works because of the BUILD demo, true it was a closed stage demo, but it allowed one high end PC (assumingly stronger than any console) to run 16Xs better than it's twin that got bricked.

So the tech itself works, the question still relies on getting a solid network for all users, and then what to do about those that don't have it. (I like the idea of looking into using local computers on the same network in your home as backups). Either way, it shows a lot of promise for the future, and MS has been clear the whole time that it wouldn't be an instant thing...so far all the actual experts seem to agree. I hope it works.

Being as the advantage of the cloud working is that it adds to the system without too much interference, I'm pretty sure gaming without it will just look like it does today, but using it will make it look even that much better.

Side note, it's good to see that Maria 2.0 is finally down to one bubble again.

jackdaniels1566d ago

why so emotional about it? Obviously your with the other camp, so why does this upset you so much?

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sin72791566d ago Show
CaptainSellers1566d ago (Edited 1566d ago )

So what happens if you aren't gaming online? Your graphics and worlds are gimped? What this 'Cloud' can do seems to change every week.

thehobbyist1566d ago ShowReplies(4)
k3rn3ll1566d ago

No you play the game as it is built for the One without a connection. The other stuff that the cloud will provide will be stuff that the console can't handle. Your looking at it like they build the game for the one and then take 30% and move it to the cloud. Thats not how its gonna work. Stop with the exaggerations and fear mongering. Your scaring the children with your lies and deceit

akaFullMetal1566d ago

The only thing so far I have seen done in games from the cloud is Avatars from Forza. Show us what the cloud can do, because all we have seen so far is talk, besides some closed enviroment demo's.

I'll be happy if they can do it, but I am very skeptical in the US anyways, as our infrastructure is poor compared to alot of countries.

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