PS4/Xbox One Power Differences Irrelevant, Sony and Microsoft Risk Obsolescence with Cloud – Pachter

"Following his criticisms of PlayStation Now, which is Cloud based, what are Pachter's thoughts on the Xbox One's Azure servers which were touted as being able to enhance the console's games? Will the Xbox One's Cloud help the system stand on even footing with the PS4 in terms of power and visuals?"

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johndoe112112103d ago (Edited 2103d ago )

Wow, michael patcher, an analyst who is way more often wrong than he is right is weighing in on a technical debate and I'm supposed to take this article serious?? Just wow.

Christopher2103d ago

Cloud gaming is not at a point where the infrastructure is cost-effective to support millions of gamers playing at once while receiving 1080p30+ fps gameplay that won't cost gamers a ton more than what they pay for games/hardware now.

So, at the time that it becomes relevant, the Xbox One and PS4 will not be relevant due to other changes and time itself.

johndoe112112103d ago

Do you mean cloud gaming like ps now or cloud compute like what microsoft is trying to sell us? Because I think your comment is way more accurate for cloud compute than cloud gaming. I could be wrong who knows. Could you shed a little more light on your comment?

scotmacb2103d ago

Let the experts tell you where cloud gaming is don't try to act like you know even if your connection is crap the people with fibre optic should still get it to hell with the rest of you

Christopher2103d ago (Edited 2103d ago )

@johndoe11211: Both.

Cloud gaming is currently streaming last gen AAA games at almost 720p with drops in framerate and screen tearing galore on my FiOS connection. Things have not improved that much since OnLive went live years ago (I remember streaming Mafia 2 and seeing the exact same problems I see now as well as similar quality in view). It also still faces problems in regards to both upload and download match ups for latency.

Cloud computing right now is only going to go as far as Diablo 3 style AI processing and itemization control. There is some physics being thrown in there, but that's similar to AI. And, look what Blizzard did with that (hint: they got rid of it) even though they have one of the best online infrastructures out there for gaming. We're not going to see the "extra Xbox One in the cloud" type computing for a long while due to cost of said performance being capable and maintaining as low levels of latency as possible in all areas in which it is utilized.

In both cases, cost of infrastructure is the problem. Also in both cases is the desire to leave behind at least a 20% (likely closer to 30%) portion of the userbase that does not maintain a hard connection to the Internet and/or has to limit their connection due to bandwidth cap plans in their regions.

So, both the technology needs to advance to a point where the cost of hardware on their end as well as the online access infrastructure is at a point that they can charge something reasonable per month for access to the data they are providing and the advancement of Internet speeds and removal of bandwidth caps in various regions.

And, in the U.S., more and more ISPs want to implement bandwidth caps so they can charge people tons more for going over them. And, with the way they've been able to get laws written that support them more than 'free' options (such as Google Fiber), it may not be long before they get their wishes in that regard.

***Let the experts tell you where cloud gaming is don't try to act like you know even if your connection is crap the people with fibre optic should still get it to hell with the rest of you***

I'm more of an expert on cloud gaming than Pachter will ever be. Pachter makes his analyses based on current tech buzzword trends and how the companies are picking up on said tech elements in their discussion. He doesn't actually analyze the possibility of said tech in any timely manner. He just accepts what is given to him in press form and runs with it. But, press form is just marketing and not actual data to support said claims.

frostypants2103d ago

@scotmacb, having fiber means squat if it's only the last mile.

randomass1712103d ago

It also goes without saying that the tech is just not there for game streaming to be the norm. Internet connections are not fast enough on a common basis and not all gamers want to just pay for the right to stream games. Some want to outright own the data of the software.

ThatOneGuyThere2103d ago

cloud gaming will be more useful than "cloud compute" for gaming. period.

Pogmathoin2103d ago

Cgoodno, are MS ready for cloud computing but the infrastructure is not?? If MS push this, will it help speed things, or we need more Netflic type to gather momentum??

Christopher2103d ago

@pogmathoin: Everyone is ready for some level of cloud computing. As I mentioned above, it's what Blizzard did with Diablo 3 ( and what EA did with the most recent Sims game). But, we're talking about cloud computing making XBO and PS4 obsolete. That level of computing is nowhere near what we need to make such hardware obsolete, let alone at a level that it can be delivered to the same audience as we currently have for AAA shooters with a similar level of latency between the players and the servers.

Titanfall is about as good as we're going to get in the next two years. And, it's but a step in the long road towards true cloud computing.

And, as you mentioned, there is going to be a ton of push back from ISPs at many levels who don't want to see an increase in broadband usage without someone paying for it. Netflix just increased their streaming fees for new people by $2/month solely because they have to pay Comcast more for uncapped streaming, for example. In the end, those costs are always going to make their way down to the users.

alexkoepp2103d ago

I like Pachter, you guys are a bunch of haters.

It's nice to see the games industry from other points of views rather than just my view as a consumer. His predictions and opinions may not always be right but neither are most of the posts that get put on n4g.

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Ittoryu2103d ago

Statistics is trends not science. He is making predictions based on past trends you know like the weatherman.

johndoe112112103d ago

Did you even read the article?

Sethry1012103d ago

Past trends? Because Cloud gaming has totally been happening for years on console right? Read the article first next time.

ThatOneGuyThere2103d ago

it HAS been happening for years. just not on console. which really doesnt matter.

tuglu_pati2103d ago

man (patcher) has a point... think about it.

johndoe112112103d ago (Edited 2103d ago )

There is a difference between cloud gaming and cloud compute. Sony is focusing on cloud gaming with the ps now service, microsoft is focusing on cloud compute for the xbox. Neither of these services will put the current consoles out of business unless sony and microsoft choose to allow it or devs start hosting their own games in the cloud.

Sony has already shown that the ps now service is for ps1, ps2 and ps3 games. They are NOT going to put ps4 games on the ps now service and cripple the ps4 console. Microsoft is just focusing on compute to try to enhance performance of the xbox one.

Unless EA, Activision, Ubisoft and all the other companies decide to host their own games on the cloud and deal with the consumers directly then what patcher is saying is making no sense. Sony and microsoft are not sabotaging their own businesses with the cloud services they are running.

tuglu_pati2103d ago

"Unless EA, Activision, Ubisoft and all the other companies decide to host their own games on the cloud and deal with the consumers directly then what patcher is saying is making no sense. "

and what makes you think they wont?

Jazz41082103d ago

Thats why I like the fact ms is now looking into emulating 360 games on the one with software and not cloud. The reason is cloud is just not ready to run 360 and ps3 games without issues and for ms to not be using cloud to emulate like sony is doing is pretty telling where we are on technical restraints. The cloud will be great for ms on taking some processing power off the console but it will not increase it 2 or 3 times in powe not this gen but if anyone can do it and is prepared its ms as they have spent billions and billions on the future.

Negative772103d ago

Well face it this time he's right.

adorie2103d ago

He's looking too far into the future. We need major advances in tech and for greed to take a back seat for once. Good luck on that happening in tandem.

randomass1712103d ago

The problem is Pachter is talking about tech that won't even have the potential to be the norm for at least another two generations. The tech is simply not there for streaming to be the norm right now.

Saigon2103d ago

I wonder if it is just me, but it is something I have noticed for a while, it doesn't seem as though Patcher knows the difference between Cloud based gaming and streamed based gaming. I think he is placing both in the same category. Sony PS Now streams a full game to your system while MS is trying to off-load calculations in the cloud allowing the cloud to compute or dictate gaming environments. Those are two completely different cloud implementations and I think he is applying them into one. Sony may have something similar to MS but I doubt it is something they are ready to show or maybe it is already applied within the PS Now format. I guess we will have to wait and see.

medman2103d ago

Michael Pucker strikes again. I have learned not to click to open any article which features that cretin.

Edsword2103d ago

I want to know how 50% more power is irrelevant. So far it has been relevant.

XxExacutionerxX2103d ago (Edited 2103d ago )

Wow, Johndoe11211 its an opinion!!! The technical debate doesn't matter when it comes to gaming consoles. Does it matter with PC machines, yes NOT Consoles!! Azure Cloud is real, no matter how many of you PS Fanboys say that its Bs, its only because Microsoft came out with this. If Sony demoed this tech first, all you Sony Fanboys would not say its bs and would say that it will destory the xbox one.
Let Michael Pachter Say the ps4 is so much better than Xbox One.
PS Fanboys would love everything that he says.

GutZ312103d ago

No one in there right mind listens to Michael Pachter thinking he knows any better than a slightly in the loop business man.

His best skill comes from taking yearly earning reports, and telling companies the trends that are current, and likely to change.

He has no idea what really will happen, or what his data really means.
He predicts by data points, nothing else.
The reason people listen to him is that he happens to work for gaming outlets, and likes to play games himself.

KinjoTakemura2103d ago

It's quite clear that the guy has no idea what he's talking about. His lack of specifics about either company and their hardware is all the proof anyone needs.

Sheikh Yerbouti2103d ago

Definitely take with a grain of salt, but you guys got to understand that being paranoid and thinking of ALL the different possibilities is the man's job.

It is okay with his bosses if Michael Pachter is wrong as long as nothing interesting happens, but if there is any large fluctuation in stock prices on the horizon, he'll be judged on his prognostication at that time.

In truth is track record is no worse than all of ours. With all that MS has done, especially in regards to enterprise solutions, some of you think the Cloud is smoke and mirrors.

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sam_job2103d ago

why do people give so much lime-light to this man.....

DefenderOfDoom22103d ago (Edited 2103d ago )

to sam_job because he is a really nice guy ! Pachter said he got popular because he returned calls from newspaper journalist from New York Times , Wall Street Journal, ect, like 8 years ago . The word spread quickly to video game journalist that he will call back and do interviews > You should watch his show PACH ATTACK on YOUTUBE! He is really funny and entertaining and admits when he is wrong! He does not receive a penny from interviews and YOUTUBE videos! But he did say he received a free cup of coffee once, from the website GT TRAILERS. Which airs his videos every Saturday.

MorePowerOfGreen2103d ago (Edited 2103d ago )

"Will the Xbox One's Cloud help the system stand on even footing with the PS4 in terms of power and visuals?"

Is that a joke? Cloud tech is designed to destroy console hardware performance. DX12 dev tools will help XB1 compete on the traditional hardware front with PS4, cloud compute and DX12 together will be like a new generation of hardware.

johndoe112112103d ago

I'm seriously starting to believe that you're either albert penello, major nelson or a trolling don mattrick.

GamerXD2103d ago

I think he's a fusion of those 3. Anyway just ignore his comments, look at his comment history and bubbles, it dictates how much of a troll he is.

"Cloud tech is designed to destroy console hardware performance. DX12 dev tools will help XB1 compete on the traditional hardware front with PS4, cloud compute and DX12 together will be like a new generation of hardware."

DX12 and Cloud really? Time will come that PS4 will support DX12 and please stop that "teh power of teh cloudz" seriously that MS cloud demo doesn't really show anything.

GUTZnPAPERCUTZ2103d ago (Edited 2103d ago )

He is not wrong about the Cloud Computing though, we as gamers should really support this no matter what side of the fence you are on since this very well could be the future of rendering in our beloved game franchises. If you are a Sony Fan, then let MS test the waters with this and see what becomes of it, after all they invented Console online gaming = Win, they created Graphic API's = Win, they created 8,16,32,and 64 bit instructions = Win, they invented Smart Phones = Win, They invented Tablets = Win, They invented Smart TV's = Win, They Invented Siri (Bob) = win, Hell, they even invented the Wheel... on the Mouse of course. Point being, MS is known to be innovative and most of their projects have been successful and improved upon by other companies, including Sony! Lets just sit back and see where they take it :)

XxExacutionerxX2103d ago

Im seriously starting to believe that your just a troller.

k3rn3ll2103d ago

Did u really just say ps4 will eventually support dx12? I hope ur joking especially since ur so quick to tell people they dont know what they are talking about

ShwankyShpanky2103d ago

@above: PS4 already supports DX11.2, and it looks like 75%+ of the new DX12 features will work on 11.2-compatible hardware. For those features that require new hardware, DX12 includes 11.2 backwards compatibility that will use the nearest 11.2 alternative.

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Majin-vegeta2103d ago

Every time I read one of your posts I just have too facepalm so hard.I think at this point you just have got to be trolling.

OT:No it wont its simple as that.

MysticStrummer2103d ago (Edited 2103d ago )

Yes some guys on here have taken trolling to a level where it's almost performance art.

Is he serious…?

No… he can't be…

…but …what if he is…?

No… can't be…

OT - The cloud can't possibly make traditional consoles obsolete yet. It may not be to that point next generation either, but we'll see. As things are right now, whichever company relies most heavily on the cloud, and especially cloud computing, will negatively impact overall sales of their console.

Flamingweazel2103d ago

I hope that's sarcasm, because you cannot be this dumb right?

sAVAge_bEaST2103d ago

"will be like a new generation of hardware"

WTF did I just Read?!?!?!?!!!??

MasterCornholio2103d ago

My dear Watson allow me to explain.

-lights pipe-

What more power of green is trying to say is that the Xbox One isn't just one console its two. Basically without the cloud and DX12 its just an ordinary current gen console like the PS4. However the console will become a next gen console when Xbox live compute and DX12 comes out.

Basically the PS4 will be an 8th gen console while the Xbox One will be a 9th gen console in the future.

Its elementary once you think about it.


stuna12103d ago (Edited 2103d ago )

Lol, he must have had a ton of snow days where he's from!


With a name like PowerofGreen, you'd have to ask what green is he referring too!?

OT: The term "Cloud Computing" at this point just that, a term! Although I'll give Micosoft credit for being at the head of the class as far as experimentation goes, there are just too many variables involved to just take ones word at it! Something could be achievable on a small scale application, but when trying to undertake that same task on a massive scale become totally unattainable, because more variables come into play in the equation. I think this is one such case.

I think Micosoft are making a promise that they can't hope to keep at this point in time! I'm not saying that they will never achieve it, or anyone else, just not yet.

So in my opinion Michael Pacther is completely wrong, and gaming will remain console dependent at least for this entire generation. Again I'm not saying that the Cloud will not play a role in how gaming plays out, just not to the degree that Micosoft is hyping it up to play.

And to those who think Nintendo, Sony and, yes Micosoft hold some type of exclusiveness to smart people trying to perfect technology like this, they don't.

warczar2103d ago


No self-respecting pothead would ever say anything so stupid.

GarrusVakarian2103d ago

"cloud compute and DX12 together will be like a new generation of hardware"

The disappointment you will face in a few years time when you realise your expectations of cloud compute and DX12 were unrealistically high will be huge.

But i guess by then you will have some other excuse to fall back on....

frostypants2103d ago

"cloud compute and DX12 together will be like a new generation of hardware."

randomass1712103d ago


Cloud computing and DX12 will HELP Xbox One, but it will by no means "destroy" the PS4 as far as raw horsepower is concerned. I can see it narrowing or even closing the power gap between the two, but that's being generous.

ThatOneGuyThere2103d ago

im really sorry you believe everything they tell you.

Jazz41082103d ago

I dont know that I would go that far but it will help. I like your enthusiasm though.

Tetsujin2103d ago (Edited 2103d ago )


I don't know who's worse, you or Mika when it comes to trolling; I swear every time you post something I get a headache and/or I laugh at how stupid you really are (not in that order).


One thing Patcher fails to realize: not everyone has high speed internet (or even internet in general), so cloud gaming will take years before it actually launches; and even then there's still bandwidth caps and dial up (yes it still exists) to bypass. Sony was one of the first to acknowledge the idea that some markets are limited on internet so the idea to use the PS4 out the box offline was a smart move; Microsoft followed later with a patch (as I've been told).

Instead of "the cloud is the future" why not say "the cloud is one option" since that's exactly what it is - an option.

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RoboticusRex2103d ago

Pachter predictions border on lunacy. He is incredibly irrelevant.

candy_mafia2103d ago (Edited 2103d ago )

Irrelevant or not...

Pachter gets paid, and he is privileged to a ton of tech/games before we are.

SliceOfTruth8882103d ago (Edited 2103d ago )

Any gamer who keeps doubting the cloud's future is a fool. And although most of my posts are about how stubborn sony only fans are i am actually a fan of ALL video game systems. The cloud IS the future and every gamer should be ROOTING for the cloud. Yes the term cloud is marketing but what microsoft has been showing off is impressive and it will only get better and every sony pony hating on the technology cant possibly think sony is not working on the same thing. A way to keep your 400-500 dollar investment relevant for a longer period of time at no cost. What can anyone honestly say is wrong with that? You can complain about what if you dont have internet but seriously without internet what are you doing owning these systems? Microsoft's original plan stated you needed a 1.5mbs down connection to enjoy the features of the xbox one. That kind of speed is pretty much available everywhere. I have been through every generation since atari and i can tell you iam ready for the next step besides buy console, buy game the end. If you still enjoy that method there are PLENTY of consoles out there for you to pick up. Sony and Microsoft NEED to push each other to the next step and for me it cant get here fast enough.

Thehyph2103d ago (Edited 2103d ago )

The only scenario where a 1.5MB connection will improve a game is one where the cloud renders everything, compresses it and streams it to the client. (Literally, this is what PlayStation Now is doing)

Do you have any idea how fast an Xbox One can handle 1.5MB of data on its own? You're looking at a tiny fraction of improvement in computational bandwidth. A fraction of a percent.

"I have been through every generation since atari"
Do you remember any mainframe/terminal setups? They're somewhat similar to people's idea of cloud computing. They were mostly awful and one of the reasons businesses adopted PC's.

ThatOneGuyThere2103d ago

you and your rational thinking need to find somewhere else. this is N4G.

MysticStrummer2103d ago

Very few say the cloud isn't the future, but this is the present and that future is still a long way off because of the average consumer's internet connection.

The cloud is the future simply because once connection speeds hit a certain level it will be cheaper for Sony/MS/Nintendo/Whoever to deliver gaming that way than to manufacture tens of millions of individual consoles with updated tech every 5 years or so.

Assuming the info you have there about MS's original plan is correct, the cloud can provide only a tiny fraction of the info your console can compute and handle per second. According to Digital Foundry, even a connection of 50mbps will yield about 6mbps from the cloud. Enjoying the features of XB1 and relying on the cloud for computation are two very different things.