CI Games, the creator of games such as Sniper 2 and Alien Rage will not be bringing their new and upcoming WWII shooter Enemy Front to either of the next-gen consoles. Steve Hart, the executive producer for the game has explained why in an interview.
Lords of the Fallen Studio, CI Games has stated that they won't integrate DEI into its games as it's bad for players' enjoyment and success.
No, forcing diversity into games for diversity sakes is a commercial risk
Oh yeah? I was just about to buy this game literally yesterday. After this statement guess what I’m not buying?
Nothing is forced, some people just get triggered over things they don't like and call it forced. Put a gay flag in a game and some snowflakes call it forced. Put a black person in a magical world and some snowflakes call it forced. These people also nitpick games, especially those that fail, while leaving out successful games that have the same elements. A majority of the most successful games have been called woke or DEI.
Okay, but what does it mean if it's "forced"? How do we know it's forced? Just by having it...?
In that case, it's like you can't ever do it.
Is it possible, perhaps, that the developers draw inspiration from people in their own lives, stories they've read, etc?
I'd like to understand where we draw the line with this sort of thing. Calling it "forced" feels so ambiguous.
What do mean "no"? The title literally says it. My comment and the title does NOT anything about "forcing" Unless you believe the word 'implement" means "forcing" Let's see what Merriam-Webster says...
@Darkx its forced when they are going to put in certain types of people to check boxes because they think thats what a certain group of people/gamers want, instead of characters to enrichen their world from a genuine place that will make the world more interesting, regardless of race, gender and what have you
@robin: “No, forcing diversity into games for diversity sakes is a commercial risk”
It goes both ways hiring just by looking at the person is a risk specially if it’s a reference fror a friend or family.
If diversity isn’t imposed all companies will be filled up like in the last century all white men no women or minorities besides serving food or cleaning.
Do you want that?, if you all do it’s a shame and a disgrace to humanity.
Funny. One of the best dev leaders in the industry, Jesse Schell, explicitly tells in one of his GDC talks that having a diverse group is the #1 (of 2) most determinant attributes for a game's success.
Michiel1989,
"its forced when they are going to put in certain types of people to check boxes because they think thats what a certain group of people/gamers want"
Okay, but how do we *know* it's forced? That's my question. It just sounds like we're going on gut feeling. When I read these comments from this developer, it just sounds like they're saying they're going out of the way to EXCLUDE certain themes or characters or whatever. In that case, is deliberate exclusion better than deliberate inclusion? I mean, coming out and saying this makes it blatantly anti-DEI, which I cautiously interpret as "ok, fair enough....?". But you're never going to placate anyone. "Force inclusion" and they'll call you woke, "force exclusion" and they'll call you bigoted. Really, what is even the point?
"instead of characters to enrichen their world from a genuine place that will make the world more interesting, regardless of race, gender and what have you"
Do we know what's in their hearts though? What does it mean to come from a genuine place? There doesn't seem to be any decent resolution here.
Why not just allow developers to make the game they want and judge the final product without fixating on this stuff? People say for example that it was forced in The Last of Us Part II. Personally, I loved the game: none of the LGBT+ themes bothered me and it gave an interesting perspective that isn't even impossible in our world. None of it detracted from the overarching theme of the cycle of violence. Arguably, it did more for it. Then you've got other games like The Witcher that don't seem to care about it at all that was great.
The way I see it, include it, don't include it, it doesn't bother me at all. But when we start saying we're avoiding it or doubling down, you lose me. Just make the game you want to, whether it's "woke" or not. If it's a great game, who cares. Whether it was "forced" or not, again, who cares and who really knows unless they tell you? Outside of that, we're speculating.
Lexreborn2 - Yeah right, bro, if you was gonna - you would've. Forcing things into games that don't belong absolutely make it worse. Move along, 🤣
This is crazy because hiring a foreign CEO is DEI. Hiring an American dev for a French studio is DEI. People seem to think DEi is only when it’s people of color. But hey that’s what happens when you allow the hateful and rich continue to try to say it’s problematic.
People constantly want to go back in time to “simplistic” times but we progressed the way we did BECAUSE of DEI. It was because people with different thought processes came together we even are where we are.
I’m tired of these hateful rhetorics that proceed to be perpetuated. I’m tired of my existence being told it’s “forceful” all because i contribute to society in a meaningful manner? Am I not also a consumer? Am I not also spending my hard earned money on this medium. But I have no claim to anything?
Perhaps people should just stop buying games, perhaps this medium should be an exclusive hobby that charges individual groups of people thousands for their games. That clearly has to be the best choice right?
I think hiring based on race because of a company politic is so beyond stupid. If I were a boss, I would hire the most competent person, regardless of color. If that person happens to be white, so be it, it's not because I am racist, it's because that person was the most qualified. If that person happens to be black or asian, same result, that person is hired.
Having to pass up a candidate because he is white and the workplace needs to be more diversified is not only discrimination, it's also racist.
Diversity needs to go and people who preach it are annoying as hell.
Edit: After proof reading the article it seems they don't want to add political stuff or social commentary in their games, it's really not saying not including all walks of life of human characters in their games. It seems their wording is wrong & maybe they shouldn't have used the term DEI. which is misleading.
@giga_gaia except the problem with that notion the fact is people weren’t hiring based on talent. They WERE hiring based on race and you can’t sweep the abundance of documented racist poor treatment companies have from past to present.
You are speaking as if it was ALWAYS the best person for the job hired. I’ve had to go behind that poor practice and clean up so much bad work for companies that “hired” the best choice.
I’ve seen on numerous occasions an over qualified person of color marginalized while someone’s cousin, uncle, neighbor friend who looks like them get hired to do an awful job.
People who talk like this issue doesn’t exist always makes me double take them because it sounds ridiculous when you actually look at the facts.
Also if diversity needs to go to hell.. all those games from the 80s-2000s made to appeal to caucasians in marketing and gameplay BECAUSE those people went to those foreign countries and paid them to cater to them means EVERY classic you love should also go to hell.
Most people aren't saying that diversity isn't good. They're saying you shouldn't fight racism with more racism.
Lexreborn2, you 100% correct.
There's a lot of closet bigots on n4g don't you worry.
It has never been about the best person for the job and never will be. The saying "it's not what you know, it's who you know" rings true and we all know this, but people harp on DEI for OBVIOUS reasons. DEI at least curbs this a little bit, but funny thing is people of color/marginalized groups don't even benefit the most from DEI like people think anyway, but every little thing helps...
Going back on best person for the job... Look no further than the great country U.S. of A. Notice the hate for H1B Visas? All of sudden best person for the job no longer matters and Americans should get it first regardless or not if they are the best for the job. Now before someone screams "cheap labor!" The average salary for a H1B Visa worker is above 6 figures. Again the "best person for the job" mantra is once gain proven bullshit and we all know which certain type people they are talking about that they feel are the best person for the job...
@Giga
The problem is when you're biased. Then your whole company begins to look the same. DEI is the result of ignorance. "Having to pass up a candidate because he's white". You're comment says all i need to know.
Bigotry & misogyny is very prevalent on this site, it's been like that for years now..
If you're looking for an echo chamber devoid of challenging views, reddit may perhaps be more your speed.
Yeah i consider myself a hardcore gamer but its alot iconsider more hardcore than me who barley leave the house in there moms basement with no social skills playing games all day. These are the gamers who want voluptious cgi women in games and i could careless cuz I get women in real life loll.
Any company that hire people based on an agenda instead of hiring the best people for the job, are or will be in trouble...
So the developers don't want to put human characters in their games that look like everyday people from all walks of life that everyone sees every time they walk out of their home. That seems like the actions of a Bigot.
This is the quote from the developer.
"We will not be integrating any social or political agencies into these experiences going forward having observed the high risk this can present."
They will just not be hiring sweet baby inc type agencies that have not really produced anything above average and are just PR disasters due to their employees tweet and interview history filled with "i hate white people" type messaging.
And please tell me how a lords of the fallen 2 could intergrate "everyday people from all walks of life that everyone sees every time they walk out of their home" into that world?
You do know that people from all walks of life that are male & female walk & drive down your street each & everyday may they be White, Black, Asian or Hispanic. Why can't people from different ethnicities & backgrounds be protagonists, or NPCs in a video game no matter what the genre is? So are you saying every video game has to have only a buffed white male character including all the NPCs? When it comes to reality humans, may it be a male or female...come in all colors, shapes, sizes & different ethnicities. When you or I walk out our doors wherever we may be going every person we see is not a buffed White male, the world is made up of all kinds of people which is the very reason that should always reflect in video games when it come to human characters.Saying every video game character should be a White buffed male character is just Bigoted let alone ignorant.
Like any cares GTA 6 has a latin female lead. Game still going to be the best selling game this gen. Hope lord if fallen flops
DEI has done more harm than good in most media it's involved in, since those involved in including it don't care about games and just want to put their messaging in as many products as they can whether it's a good fit or not.
What harm has that done? Telling companies to actually look at all ethnicities when hiring has done more harm than good? Remember when people were only hired because of their skin color? I don't recall seeing any of the people crying about DEI care when white people were giving jobs just because of their skin color.
DEI is about enforced inclusion. Personally, I think it's more offensive to only include minorities because a checklist told you to. Add anyone you want to, but because *you* as a creator want to, not because some external organization insisted.
@Alos88
You really need to educate yourself before you start spreading lies, unless said lies are what you want. Tell me, which company is out their saying they are only hiring minorities? Not white people? Do you think pro diversity is code for anti-white? DEI has never said only hire minorities, that is a lie People like you keep spreading. The mission of DEI is to say, also include minorities. What do you think people did before? White people were hired just because of their skin color and minorities were excluded just because of the color of their skin. A black person could have 10x times the experience companies would still take a Whiteman over him. There are literally 10s of thousands of resumes that have been rejected for having distinctively Black sound names. Care to guess why? The only time people cry DEI is when they see a minority, yet, I have never seen any of those people cry DEI, when a place is filled with nothing but white people. Also, isn't it fun that those who cry about DEI don't seem to care about legacy admissions or roles were people who are not qualified for a role are giving to them because they are related to or know someone?
Yes, companies should be forced to give everyone a chance, if they were not forced, black people and other minorities would have been excluded like they were in past. Just as companies should be forced to pay you a minimum wage, if they were not you best believe they will not.
I would take your own advice regarding further education. Opinion and personal interpretation of your own perspective is not fact (nor educational).
You're absolutely obsessed with race. There have always been more than just white people making games- all people like you succeed in doing is make other people uncomfortable of them. Back before companies like Sweet Baby Inc were a thing people weren't suspicious whenever a cast is predominantly nonwhite, or if a LGBT character was involved. That suspicion was introduced because YOU introduced it.
DEI has done more damage to minorities than anything else, it has set back relations between these groups and everyone else by decades by trying to force it down our throats instead of organically and carefully adding to the media it's involved with.
@Alos88
No, I stated facts, also, remember when brain dead snowflakes loved GOW, then all of a sudden started calling it woke/DEI when they found out SBI worked with them? It has only set back relations with groups who don't want to see minorities in any big roles. It's why you people will cry DEI, when you see a black woman as a pilot, it's why you only ever question minorities in certain roles and not white people. There are always set up, but those people will be ignored, hell even laughed at in the future
@Redemption-64: "You really need to educate yourself before you start spreading lies, unless said lies are what you want. Tell me, which company is out their saying they are only hiring minorities? Not white people? "
1, https://resources.workable....
From the article:"one in five respondents say they have received explicit instruction for a ‘no white men’ policy. Another one in five say they’ve been implicitly instructed to follow this kind of a policy"
2. https://www.resourcefulfina...
"Hiring data from 2020-21 of 88 companies on Standard & Poor’s (S&P) 100 list:
The surge in hiring was dominated by diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) initiatives. An eye-opening 94% of new hires could be categorized as “people of color (POC).” Whites – just over 70% of the U.S. population – accounted for only 6% of S&P 100 hires."
3. https://www.resumebuilder.c...
"November ResumeBuilder.com surveyed 1,000 hiring managers across the U.S.
Key findings include:
52% believe their company practices “reverse discrimination” in hiring
1 in 6 have been asked to deprioritize hiring white men
48% have been asked to prioritize diversity over qualifications
53% believe their job will be in danger if they don’t hire enough diverse employees
70% believe their company has DEI initiatives for appearances’ sake"
Dont claim that people spread lies simply because it doesnt fit your narrative.
Hiring data from 2020-21 of 88 companies on Standard & Poor’s (S&P) 100 list:
The surge in hiring was dominated by diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) initiatives. An eye-opening 94% of new hires could be categorized as “people of color (POC).” Whites – just over 70% of the U.S. population – accounted for only 6% of S&P 100 hires.
Decades of majority white people being hired and 1 year of statistics apparently equals no white hires? You know this is selective BS because the margin would be 94% new hires DEI would equal black, Hispanic, Asian ect. In a white dominated environment of what?
You guys love to use fake statistics of high percentages without the context or number of what it means. Same thing that was done with colleges and when they did away with it. WHITE PEOPLE NUMBERS BOOMED! There was 0 balance and white people started being favored OVER HIGHER QUALIFIED INDIVIDUALS.
I stopped commenting after I made my statement because I realized a while ago how ignorant you bigoted people are. Imagine I said I’m not buying a game because it won’t consider including others I was negged to hell. A personal choice that is in opposition to common thought and MY CHOICE there is zero respect for it.
My experience in a country dominated by white people YES every corporate company I’ve worked for I could LITERALLY count on 1 hand how many black men worked there and I could count under 30 DEI with the company being SWARMED with white people from 300-500 but you trying to tell me there is to many POC?
People like you are full of it full stop, and you false flagging your “discrimination” while actively being happy you discriminate against others. And the crazy part is all POC do is want to work and hang with you people and help.
Yall so got damn angry others have a heart and compassion you turn good things to bad things. It’s absolutely insane to keep talk to people like you. So I’m out
I answered to another commentator who stated that it is a lie that companies have in place no white hiring policies which is evidently not true.
You answered to me calling me bigot (classic triggered response) claiming that I provided fake statistics (while providing no evidence to the contrary) and you claim moral high ground.
It is evident that you dont want to discuss anything that doesnt agree with you so I guess that settles it then.
Be well and take care
This is what I have learnt, people that cry about DEI don't care about the best people being hired, they just don't want to see black people, gay/trans, women and some other minorities with certain jobs. Politics are welcomed in games, those who say they don't want politics in their games, just mean, please don't put politics that hurt or trigger me in video games. As I said before, some of the biggest and most successful videos games are labeled as woke or from very pro diversity studios.
Remember when Space Marines 2 was called woke when it was revealed that one of the writers is trans? It somehow became anti-woke or anti-DEI when it became successful. Now what do you think the narrative would have been if it failed?
Well, I have been at my current role for over 5 years now and was even offered more to work with my old boss, so no, someone didn't fail the job interview they never had. But I do have experience getting a verbal offer only to later be told the owner decided give the job to a family member, or being asked to train the niece of one of my bosses, one who had 0 experience and did the bare minimum, terrible at the job, but still had more job security than me. Or being asked to meet the CEO for approval, after numerous interviews and test, only to have the CEO question the receptionist if this is truly the candidate with her smile vanishing when the receptionist said yes. That final interview lasted 2 minutes and she sent 80% of that on her phone. There was a rejection letter waiting for me before I got home.
I've learnt people that cry when DEI is not in their games are the loudest. They're so use to getting catered.
You mean straight white men? I remember a time when nearly every video game cover was a white man with a gun, or having them all look almost the same. Seems those are the people crying woke whenever a new video game isn't straight white man. Here is the truth, as the demographics change, companies follow
CI Games is planning more for its 2 biggest franchises
Great! It was always disappointing that Lords of the Fallen never got a proper sequel back in the day, so I'm glad the Reboot stirred up enough interest to warrant a sequel this time around.
A sequel to the excellent action RPG Lords of the Fallen is coming in 2026 to PC, PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X|S. The game will be published by Epic Games on PC, which means it probably won't be coming to Steam.
:(
So basically too lazy. Think about it. Arkham knight is developed on Unreal engine 3 before next gen consoles but it's coming out for it. Metal Gear Solid 5 was being developed before Next-Gen consoles, same with Watch_Dogs,Final Fantasy XIV ARR, Need For Speed Rivals, Call of Duty Ghost, Battlefield 4,Assassin's Creed 4,Flower,Flow,DCUO,Blacklight retribution, the list goes on and on. Warframe,a PC game, took 2 months to port for somebody's sake! So just say you're too lazy. It's common knowledge that the PS4 is easy to develop and port too so just say you Don't want to put in the small amount of effort. Oh look just remembered Outlast, a PC port. Excuses man /:
Their Lost -_-
Old news. Still getting it for PS3 if reviews are decent.
This is why his game will fail and not sell good. His loss.