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Killzone: Shadow Fall’s Multiplayer Wasn’t 1080p, but it Looked Outstanding Anyway

CraveOnline: "Sony has gone full force with its 1080p machine guns since the PS4 came out. In a way, 1080p has become a moniker synonymous with "MORE POWA!" However, what has been documented as the greatest demonstration of the PS4's "supercharged" hardware didn't follow the Sony supported standard. More importantly, it had a good reason not to."

Update:

cgoodno note: Hey guys, we're happy you're happy this submission is back. But, please, let's make it about the technology, the game, and the companies, not about each other. As you can tell, moderation is getting crazy here, let's keep it down a bit.

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Wedge191742d ago ShowReplies(15)
majiebeast1742d ago ShowReplies(2)
aquamala1742d ago

I could easily tell mp didn't look as good as sp, just didn't know why, finally there's proof

Blaze9291742d ago ShowReplies(6)
Cuzzo631742d ago ShowReplies(1)
kickerz1742d ago ShowReplies(1)
4Sh0w1742d ago ShowReplies(14)
Beastforlifenoob1742d ago

It was barely noticeable and the only reason why there is an outburst NOW is because they found out.

If they never found out everyone would still think its 1080p maybe the difference isnt as perceptible as thought and yes I do have a gaming PC and PS4 so i know the difference between 720p and 1080p yadayayd stop trying to shove it up our ass WE JUST WANT TO PLAY A GODAMND MOTHERFU**NG GAME

nukeitall1742d ago

That is so ironic, but you know what I would notice more than the resolution or frame rate when it is above 30?

Lag in the multiplayer portion of KZ: Shadowfall or when host is using a lag switch?

i.e. what is far worse than all this is the use of P2P behind a proxy server to hide the fact that, the game is still P2P!

bobtheimpaler1742d ago

@nukeitall

Only time I experienced any major lag was a week or so ago. Guerrilla found the problem and fixed it.

It doesn't have the game breaking issues that BF4 has.

UltimateMaster1741d ago

Why are we just learning about this now?

webeblazing1742d ago Show
assdan1742d ago

Well yeah, of course it didn't. It was almost double the framerate.

Pogmathoin1742d ago ShowReplies(1)
Edsword1742d ago

Most games make sacrifices for MP, it is was actually a really good way to increase response time without sacrificing a lot of image quality. Sony should not have claimed it was 1080p though. I wonder how many games do this and it was just never discovered? The SP game runs at > 30 fps, and is a really amazing looking launch title. I know there is a lot of fanboyism out there claiming this is somehow proof the PS4 just is not that powerf, but it is more reflective of a rushed launched title. If they could get the SP to run as smooth as it does, a little more time with the MP and they probably could have had it running 1080p, but not without some sacrifices.

Hellsvacancy1742d ago (Edited 1742d ago )

I'm backing out of this room......... slowly

I've not even played the new Killzone anyway, it was the 407 comments that brought me here

The comments are really entertaining, the 1 negative bit of PS4 news (in ages) and N4G LITERALLY explodes with fanboys of the art, It has got to the point the mods have got involved to try and calm the silly situation

fr0sty1742d ago (Edited 1742d ago )

Funny thing is, it's not the only game on PS4 to have sub-1080p resolution. It's one of the only, but this isn't a first time thing. Nor is it even the case for the single player portion of the game.

The site also tries to blast Sony for putting 1080p on the back of the box... the SP mode IS 1080p, so it isn't false advertising.

Technically, Sony pulled a fast one on the terminology used for the multiplayer portion of the game. 1080 refers to the number of horizontal lines of resolution in the image. the P refers to progressive scan. Even with the reduced vertical resolution, there are still 1080 horizontal lines of resolution in the image and it is still a progressive scan image. So, technically the term "1080p" isn't a lie.

That isn't to say it's the 1920x1080 progressive scan image we'd expected to see.

CYCLEGAMER1742d ago Show
tuglu_pati1742d ago (Edited 1742d ago )

Oh boy I was disappointed with XBO and now with PS4 i guess I'll have to turn to PC gaming

Volkama1741d ago

Quick question for those that have Killzone and could notice that something was a bit off:

If you set the PS4 to output at 720p and let your TV handle the upscale does it look better or worse than this unusual software upscale from GG?

I'm quite curious to know whether this interlacing method is a pretty nifty innovation we might see more of, or if standard hardware upscaling would have been a better choice. Most modern TVs handle an upscale very well, so this is a pretty decent test to that effect.

Before firmware fixed the One over-sharpening I would output BF4 at 720p, and it was vastly superior to the jaggy mess the console provided.

+ Show (12) more repliesLast reply 1741d ago
Corpser1742d ago

People that were complaining about mp graphics are now vindicated , let's hope your other "1080p" games are really 1080p and not cheating like this Sony

GarrusVakarian1742d ago (Edited 1742d ago )

Ok, can someone explain to me what GG did with Killzone SF's MP? I see many people in hear wrongly assuming it's 960x1080 upscaled to 1080p...but i know that's not the case....

Am i right in saying that each individual frame is 960x1080 (exactly half the pixels of 1920x1080p) and every 2nd frame is a mix of the 1st frame and the 3rd frame?

Im confused and would appreciate someone more knowledgeable in these matters than myself to explain it to me :D.

I also see a lot of comments on this article of people being so confident, but that confidence is born of ignorance, so many people are not researching this or looking into it any further than the title of the article. If you don't know what you are talking about....do some research or ask people to explain it to you like i just did.

BallsEye1742d ago (Edited 1742d ago )

It's not wrongly assumed. From very start I knew KZ was not native full HD. Saw it on my TV, saw it on screens but you and many others voted me down for trolling to one bubble (and hey, here is my ps4! http://tinypic.com/view.php... then praising it as best looking game that runs flawlessly at 1080p 60 fps. Apparently everyone in here need to have their eyes checked, before posting such crap again.

ANyway, back to you. Someone explained this here pretty well

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

I hope this can stop all the needless posts by fanboys on XO articles about how XO can not run 1080p. Now ps4 flagship title runs at lower res and worse framerate than titanfall beta...

Let this news be the end of stupid resolutiongate talks. You guys just made yourself look like complete idiots.

Sony lied once more. You can't spin this one. Just like 4D (yes 4 dimension graphics!) , kz2 cgi trailer, deep down first trailer etc etc and other crap promised. I know MS do lie as well but they are pretty straight forward when it comes to resolutions or in-game not in-game...

GarrusVakarian1742d ago (Edited 1742d ago )

@Balleye

Wtf are you talking about?

"From very start I knew KZ was not native full HD. Saw it on my TV, saw it on screens but you and many others voted me down for trolling to one bubble"

No...i didn't. I too instantly saw the difference between the MP and SP, i just thought it was using poor AA giving it a blurrier look in motion. How can you TELL ME i down-voted you?

"praising it as best looking game that runs flawlessly at 1080p 60 fps. "

Again, no i didn't. I said the SP had the best looking visuals of next gen. I saw the DF framerate analysis for the MP when it first released and was very disappointed....not ONCE have i EVER said it runs at a "flawless" 1080p 60fps....so please don't generalise me with the other Sony fanboys.

"Sony lied once more. You can't spin this one"

Wtf.....im not trying to spin anything! Ive said multiple times today that GG has lost credibility to me and than lying to paying customers is a terrible thing to do.

As for the Neogaf thread, yeah i saw it....but there have been conflicting opinions from GAF members on what GG actually implemented. I was hoping to get an answer from someone who knows what they are talking about....not someone generalising me and making assumptions on my past actions with no proof whatsoever. Thanks for not actually explaining aything to me.

ziggurcat1742d ago

@ ballseye:

"It's not wrongly assumed. From very start I knew KZ was not native full HD."

... except it is. this article is related to MP, not single player.

and it's been explained that it's still being rendered at 1080 in MP, just half of the frames at a time (it alternates between the even, and odd vertical lines every frame).

which makes the argument comparing the pixel count between Ryse and KZ invalid since it's still 1920 x 1080 at more of a resolution of 1080i instead of p (that and the 960 is the horizontal pixel dimension, not the vertical one).

GarrusVakarian1742d ago (Edited 1742d ago )

@ziggurcat

So you are saying that each individual frame is made up of odd and even lines, each at 960x1080? And that results in each full frame being 1920x1080i instead of P? Or is every 2nd frame 1920x1080i?

If that's what you are saying, then why are people comparing pixel counts with KZ and Ryse? Because a pixel count comparison would only be relevant if both games were being upscaled to 1080p, right?

I'm still a little confused, but thanks for explaining it.

aquamala1742d ago

calling this upscaled or 1080i would not be correct. you get 1920x1080 pixels, but only half of them are rendered, the other half comes from "calculations" based on what's in the previous frame.

Volkama1741d ago (Edited 1741d ago )

Lukas the solution is actually quite easy to term, it's just a form of upscaling. The way the final image is produced has a lot in common with interlacing, but it isn't just a raw interlaced image.

Interlacing in terms of the old 1080i standard displayed alternate lines, and switched between them on each frame. It was interlaced on the vertical (and generally considered inferior to 720p).

This solution is very similar, but the interlacing takes place on the horizontal and rather than flat-out ignore the "off" lines it uses a software solution that fills in the line based on the previous frame + the current lines next to it.

It's rendering half the image and upscaling. Definitely better than 720p, but definitely not native 1080p.

The hardware upscaling on the 360/One/PS4/most modern TVs never simply stretches out an image, they use complex algorithms to calculate and fill in the the extra pixels. This is just a software solution to achieve the same.

An interesting question is "is this software upscale better or worse than the hardware upscale that was available?". From reports of the "Vaseline effect" I'd say it's inferior, and logically it's a pretty hefty portion to upscale (100% pixel increase). Which makes you wonder why they'd opt for it. The woes of hitting a launch day deadline most likely.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 1741d ago
mrpsychoticstalker1742d ago

More news like this will come out soon, its embarrassing. KZ is a great game, now being overshadow by resolution.

Titanfall looks awesome regardless of resolution and we all (The Xbox One Community) Know it since the beginning, not 4 months after release.

Convas1742d ago (Edited 1742d ago )

Wait a damn minute, Ryse looks outstanding too.

That didn't save it from Resolution-Gate.

This is some unbelievable spin. Sony told us "Then there’s the competitive multiplayer mode which, like the game’s campaign, runs at native 1080p and 60 fps."

Source: http://blog.eu.playstation....

960x1080 is almost 720p. That's less pixels than the TitanFall Beta. This was supposed to be the flagship PS4 title that represented the glory of 1080p60 Multiplayer.

You've been had.

angelsx1742d ago

I'm sony fenboy but can't deny i'm disappointed.No 1080p no 60fps

Eonjay1742d ago (Edited 1742d ago )

Its not 960x1080. Its 960*1080x2. Its actually the same at 1080p. Please refer to the Digital Foundry Analysis. Its 2 960x1080 frame buffers combined. They also explained why GG did this instead of a single 1920x1080 frame buffer.

This Crave article doesn't explain this. I don't think the author fully understood the DF article. He saw 960 and said "960x1080".

If we are going to get technical, please lets be correct.

scott1821742d ago (Edited 1742d ago )

^
Good to know Eonjay, people jumped all over this seeing the title.

No_Limit1742d ago

@Eonjay ,

LOL, did you just made "Its 960x1080x2" up? Wouldn't that be 1920x2160. BTW, digital foundry never said anything regarding this made up claim of yours in the tech analysis of KZ:SS or any one of their related articles. They clearly state what is already known in the latest article, which is that it is 960x1080 in multiplayer and runs on avg, 50fps. Unless you have some sort of link to say otherwise, please stop spreading fake info to the public.

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
"Here Guerrilla Games has opted for a 960x1080 framebuffer, in pursuit of a 60fps refresh. Across a range of clips, we see the game handing in a 50fps average on multiplayer. It makes a palpable difference, but it's probably not the sort of boost you might expect from halving fill-rate"
"Now, there are some mitigating factors here. Shadow Fall uses a horizontal interlace, with every other column of pixels generated using a temporal upscale - in effect, information from previously rendered frames is used to plug the gaps."

Here are the original links to KZ:SS articles by Eurogamer/Digital Foundry, and not one of them states anything regarding the 960x1080 x 2 made up claim that you just stated. The spin and denial are strong here. LOL

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

Nine_Thousaaandd1742d ago

Coming from a huge PS fan...I'll be one of the first to admit, Guerrilla Games and Sony screwed up on the MP being 1080p/60fps.

But whats really funny is that nobody knew, the SP looks amazing, some draw backs in MP quality...not enough to bring any attention to Sony and GG. Now incoming Titanfall, in several days, makes me wonder if Microsoft has been hard at work paying off some peeps to find a game thats listed 1080p by Sony, with flaws on screen? Great way to boost some Titanfall sales!

This article is about Sony and GG though...would be nice if one them came foward to explain why? Now I could be wrong, but I understand early last year and before that, Sony's SDK were 4gb ready, one reserved for the OS, 3 for game development. KZ was built from ground up off the early SDK. Later when 8gb was announced at E3, KZ was pretty much done. I read later that GG didn't know of Sony's plan to go 8gb til they announced it at E3. They boosted the frame rate and resolution afterwards...which to my understanding, SP was gonna be @1080p/30fps...and MP @720/60fps with the original SDK. Which I think they should have kept the original idea, rather than try to change it at the last minute before the holidays. Sounds like MP was rushed to change res/frame rate before launch.

Oh well, the damage is done, MS fans rejoice...PS decieved us all with KZ resolution. But ya'll have to admit, good damn upscaling! Sony listen to me, I've been bashing MS for reasons like this, I've devoted my gaming to PS and PC, no more Xbox! Don't go off and start a trend...ya'll are doing fantastic at the moment...don't make me pay HQ a visit and show my ass! Big ups to Sony so far for a great launch and games this March...and oh I almost forgot Xbox fans, Metal Gear Ground Zero still shows Xbox is weaker, don't get it twisted...great minds like Hideo Kojima will prove that PS4 reigns over Xbox everytime!

SONY, don't piss me off next time with this crap...be up front about your product!

k3rn3ll1742d ago (Edited 1742d ago )

To be fair I never considered it 60fps. It dropped significantly and often as evidenced in DF video

Edit: Also can we now use this as evidence in future "resolution-gate" discussions that a large portion of consumers can't tell the difference in resolution as many pixel counters to tell us otherwise

Kribwalker1742d ago

1920x1080 is 1080p. If you are only showing half pixels per frame it is interlaced ie 1080i. Makes you wonder tho with frame rate around 50fps if they stayed true 1080p if frame rates would be in the 20s

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 1742d ago
rafaman1742d ago

I don't know why people still trust Sony, really.

Two things I learned...

Microsoft is mercenary and Sony a liar...

This won't change

nerdman671742d ago

Smart people will not trust any company because in the end all that matters to them is money. Gamers can try and tell themselves that they matter, but it is their wallets that matter

BX811742d ago

Anyone who thinks either MS or Sony are 100% up front is crazy.

sgtGanGreen1742d ago

Agree, every gen of consoles sony lied about something

Prime1571742d ago (Edited 1742d ago )

Thank you, nerdman. Spin never happens anywhere.

Remember all the brands and stores distancing themselves from the Bangladesh clothing fires that killed over 100 people?

I still don't get the hubbub. The 1080p argument still makes me laugh from certain fanboys on each side.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1742d ago
Rimfro1742d ago ShowReplies(2)
DC7771742d ago Show
creatchee1742d ago ShowReplies(2)
Farmassy1742d ago (Edited 1742d ago )

this just proves that resolution should not matter as much as people make it out to be. I have an X1 and I thought ryse looked absolutely amazing even though it wasn't native 1080p.

The simple fact that shadowfall has been out for months and only now are people finding this out proves that resolution isn't as important as some have been saying.

I hope people will start to look at gameplay more than resolution. Graphics are important but it won't make a game great

specialguest1742d ago (Edited 1742d ago )

I'm glad this article popped up. The fanboys were relentless on bashing all things Xb1 resolution related. They were drunk on Xb1 hate, it was ridiculous. Now a massive back fire from a 1st party franchise revealing that everything the fanboys championed from high up on their mighty fanboy mountain while laughing and insulting everything below them was a lie.

Hypocrisy, betrayal, denial... yes, these are the things some are expressing. Maybe this time some people might break free from that vicious hyper focus on resolution and appreciate a game and a systems capabilities for what they are. However, many will continue to spin, justify, misdirect, and claim why this is different than the games they bashed.

Convas1742d ago (Edited 1742d ago )

People, don't let Eonjay fool you.

"... but it's a different story altogether with multiplayer. Here Guerrilla Games has opted for a 960x1080 framebuffer, in pursuit of a 60fps refresh."

There is only ONE FRAMEBUFFER. Not two. One. 1.

"Now, there are some mitigating factors here. Shadow Fall uses a horizontal interlace, with every other column of pixels generated using a temporal upscale - in effect, information from previously rendered frames is used to plug the gaps. The fact that few have actually noticed that any upscale at all is in place speaks to its quality, and we can almost certainly assume that this effect is not cheap from a computational perspective."

Each frame is being rendered @ 960x1080 and then the previous frame is spliced into the next frame to give the "appearance" of a full 1080p picture. That's why standing still looks great and moving reveals ghosting and pixel artifacts.

Whatever you want to call this, it's not 1080i and it's not 1080p. If EACH AND EVERY FRAME is not being rendered @ 1920x1080, it's not full or native 1080p. And 1080i is two frames back-to-back @ 1920x540.

This method GG is using is NEITHER.

Again. You've been had.

Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

scott1821742d ago

I really don't understand all of this, but if it is all true then wtf was Sony thinking saying 1080p... I would like to hear what they have to say about it.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 1742d ago