Founder and CTO of Terathon Eric Lengyel says Sony treated them "with respect."
Pfffft. Did this guy even email Chris Charla?
Hummm... Never heard of this guys before. I guess everyone wants their 15 min of fame.
It's never a good thing for a developer to go out of their way to make these sort of comments towards a platform holder, particularly Microsoft. So for them to go out of their way and say this speaks to how unprofessional Microsoft was towards them. This is yet another reason why I will not buy a Xbox One.
Ms treats everyone like they are privaleged to be on xbone. Remember Don Mattrick? That same arrogance still abounds at ms.
Sounds like the guy is bitter MS didn't care about his tiny game engine used by a bunch of indies. Sorry, but it seems to me that indies and those surrounding them tend to be a bunch of whiny people. Just look at blowfish and their ilk! That said, there are plenty of indie developer saying positive things about Xbox One, but you won't find them on n4g, where mods and people with lots of bubbles are pro Sony/PS4. Go ahead, do a search on the interwebz and you will see plenty of people complaining about this very issue. Finally, based on Terathon's comment I will not expect great things from your engine. ESRAM has been around for ages, and ways to deal with it is well documented. If you can't deal with it, then I wonder about your C4 engine.....
You are proof that xbox trolls are just as annoying... I hate to burst your bubble but even in the us the ps4 is so far the console of choice... so far sales indicate people substantially prefer the ps4. The reason is definitely in part due to the reputation MS has. Their poor decisions across all their products are impacting their ability to market the X1 effectively. MS has to re-establish trust with the consumer. The X1 has lots of potential. It is the MS brand that is hurting it the most. This has nothing to do with n4g... n4g has plenty of trolls for all gaming options.
I dont understand the logic used.. For one.. This guy making this comment doesn't speak to how unprofessional ms is, rather how unprofessional this Dev is.. Plain and simple And two.. Why would anybody track down and offer support for a Dev or game (or engine) that nobody has heard of? That's not how it works.. Yes he should track down the very public manager of the indie program.. Or he's another no name Dev that expects the gaming world to bend over backwards for him
@lolCHILLbro - So you think an indie developer wanting to make a game for the XBone didn't ask the leader of the Xbox indie program?? ...did you urself actually realise how stupid that comment was after proof reading it... It's just that you can press the edit button, you know that right?? & you wouldn't of made yourself look like a moron in the process.
@lolCHILLbro LOL chill, bro!
This is how Microsoft lost Heavy Rain, Little Big Planet, and lots of other great games. While this isn't huge it's still a testament of the way they operate.
@nukeitall Oh that's right; Xbox fanboys hate indie development now that MS no longer owns a veritable monopoly on console indie games and PS4 has so many more indie games in development. Every indie developer is blowfish now. I'm sorry that you're such a bitter person; there's still a lot of great indie games being made.
He didn't print his own article you dummy, he was being asked questions. The person giving the interview printed this. * That is like saying a certain celebrity is an attention whore, because cameras are camera stalkers are following them. Do you think they are point the cameras at themselves ? no. Just another thing that proves Microsoft do not have GOOD Honest people working at the top. This is the result of having sleaze bags run your company.
See this is how n4g operates, a indie dev that's working exclusively on ps platform who sounds like he has an axe to grind is taken as gospel. Yet they are quick to report positive xbox news, and negative ps news= not gaming related for sonys financial troubles yet how many times has microsofts business dealings, financials been reported with xbox related or not? So when Mousecraft dev says this its approved quickly: [email protected] launch parity clause still a problem says MouseCraft dev http://n4g.com/news/1465148... but when the same dev says this, its reported as duplicated, despite the original posting above never talking about him responding to Chris Charla/OXM being updated to reflect his latest comments, the new story from examiner below specifically about these new comments is reported as duplicate: 'MouseCraft' dev: it's easier for indies to get their games on Xbox One than PS4 http://n4g.com/news/1465644... but again n4g only wants the negative side of what indies, the news of 65 indie devs working on xbox doesn't matter as much as 1 dev coincidentally working only on ps4, "lol dat n4g bias".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... Its a nice engine for indie games..
Sounds like this guy will make a fun game :)
More indie devs on PS4 means more indie games on PS4. Looks like the console that has the most games this generation will be the PS4. Nintendo has a lot going for them, but there are so many games coming out for the PS4 that it is GUT EXPLODING. Keep it up PS4. The more the merrier.
@lolchillbro you guys really relax and get a grip. starting to sound like you are unraveling. if that is really how you feel and it bothers you so much then you could always just avoid the place.
@fanboys Question if you hate N4G and think its bias why are you guys still commenting here? You guys sound like a bunch of complainers. OT: Sony's on a roll with providing some 3rd party support.
@nukeitall "ESRAM has been around for ages" Just because something has been around a long time doesn't make it okay or any less of an inconvenience. Gas powered cars have been around for a long time, does that mean we shouldn't bother with electric vehicles are hybrids that would do less damage to the environment? MS should care, they are the makers of gaming console platform and should want games on their console. This engine would have helped them get more games.
@lolChillBro I think @fermor was referring to the developer, not Chris Carla. Everyone knows Chris or has heard of him before.
"This is how Microsoft lost Heavy Rain, Little Big Planet, and lots of other great games" Wasn't Heavenly Sword another one to add to the list? I'm almost positive Ninja Theory approached MS first. In the same breath both Nintendo and Sony walked away from the company that created the tech for Kinect. They both saw is as a device that would add nothing to gaming where as MS saw nothing but $$$$$ signs through a marketing campaign which I call a misleading dream / fantasy. How is that Kinect 2.0, you know the device MS built and sacrificed system power to run and drove up cost for retail, working to enhance "gaming" on the XBOX ONE? Other than saying "XBOX ON". I never use it. I have multiple TV's and sound systems in my gaming room usually going all at once and I don't like having to mute everything for it to respond to me. Plus I find it limited and too much to learn. Input buttons on a controller is how I navigate the X1. So let MS keep snubbing their nose where they don't see easy to cash in on $$$$$ signs. They are only limiting themselves and their consumers.
Brix90 "@fanboys Question if you hate N4G and think its bias why are you guys still commenting here?" If putting whiny fanboys and trolls here on N4G in their place were an Olympic event this would've won you the GOLD!
So we have 200+ indie devs signed on To [email protected] that haven't said anything negative about ms and most saying great things. Even dayz dev is praising them when he has no reason to suck up to them as he is already had success. Then we have a few that have stated complaints about xbox. The vocal minority wins again on N4g
Only people who care about indie games are indie game developers.
Why are there so many jerks in the indie community? So many of them really think they are God's gift to gaming. I'll mark these guys down as another company to avoid.
@k3rn3ll And just what percentage of those developers HAVE a game on Xbone?
@ Familyguy- Hate to break it to you but Hybrid and Electric vehicles are worse for the environment than ones powered by conventional petrol engines. People don't seem to understand that the heavy metals contained in those batteries are not abundant like iron, and the process of mining the required metals on the opposite side of the globe, transport back and forth across the globe multiple times for battery manufacturing and later the shipping of the vehicle itself, and the huge environmental impact these batteries will have as they degrade, not to mention how they must be replaced every 6-10 years. And to top it off, because of their higher price tag, it will take 20 years of driving a hybrid in order to accumulate enough gas savings to catch up to a petrol engine. And I wont even start on how hybrid/electric car owners receive government subsidy's because nobody would buy a $60k Prius. That money is taken away from hard working people who I bet don't own a car worth over $30k. ugh...
I find it unbelievable that a developer will ignore a gaming platform just because they got their feelings hurt. Can they afford to ignore a platform?... if so, then good for them. Yes, everyone deserves to be treated with respect, but I have the feeling that indie developers whine too much... they are always complaining about something.
Respawn and Ea did.
They whine a lot because they don't get respect from larger companies. Larger companies such as ms often treat them like they're worth nothing. Technically from a dollar value aspect they may not be BUT that doesn't mean they should be treated like crap. Indies very often turn out incredible and much better than the AAA dribble that's coming out today which is CLEARLY only made to make a quick buck.
Sony provided them with everything that they needed and MS did a terrible job of communicating with them. That's the difference between a business deal commencing or not commencing in ANY business. The real hurt feelings is the extreme butthurt from fanboys on this page, upset that they had the audacity to not get communication and co-operation from Microsoft.
How much money is your dignity worth?
@WeAreLegion how much is feeding your family and paying your bills worth?
How about treating all gamers and developers with respect? MS do seem to crap on their customers and even developers who do not follow their strict ways. Being an indie developer means freedom to create. Sony are wise to let indie developers create with freedom. Such a shame MS seems to behave like it has no class.
In a gaming marketing stand point it would be ideal to have every indie device like you so you get more exclusives and money. MS ingoring them or not responding to them makes devs not feel inmporant so that makes them leave. MS made a dumb decision not helping out the dev or at the very least say there already helping other devs
Basically saying, "they made me actual put in effort, instead of doing everything for me" ...
Most indie developers sound like a bunch of hipsters, especially Jonathan blow and his death to the man attitude. Get a life buddy, quit looking for free advertising by bashing MS
Excuse me but those 'HIPSTERS' are the ones who put good games out there for you so-called gamers to play. They work hard for their money and if Microsoft is treating them like crap, they have every right to speak out, But you guys NEVER developed a game in your lives so its easy to trash talk these guys right? I'm not the biggest Indie gamer but I respect what these guys do.
@DigitalRaptor So your an Indie developer? You've dealt with Chris Charla and know from experience that he would have helped? Or are you speculating and don't actually have a clue what your talking about?
He's prolly mad microsoft is giving unity to all Indy developers in the [email protected] program for free so he can't make money pushing his engine for shovelware
that would be a valid beef... MS would be threatening his lively hood and I total respect the idea to viciously defend your livelihood
@n4rc. When does this article make it look like the dev expected ms to reach out to them? If microsoft is treating nearly every indie dev like this (which it seems like they are), then that's a very big deal. Indie games are significant.
I was referring to the comments made..
He shouldn't have to. They should be allowed to easily self-publish their games like they do on PS4. That's the main reason PS4 has so much indie support.
Wow, there's more whiney MS fanboys on this article than anyone else. It's ironic you guys say this site is infested by sony drones. And of course your knee jerk reaction is to blindy defend this and make excuses. There's a reason you're branded as ms APOLOGISTS. I guess MS still hasn't learnt from their mistakes and arrogant behaviour. Maybe a few more months of getting spanked in sales might give them a little bit of humility. I doubt it though. MS will continue to be MS.
How naive can fanboys be? I guess you don't remember how arrogant Sony were when they presented the PS3 in 2006? How easily we forget... Microsoft are no saints, but neither are Sony. At this moment what differentiates Sony from Microsoft, is that Sony has a better PR department.
@ferm Yep Sony was arrogant, and they have come a LONG way since announcing the PS3. Thats why they are the gamers and devs choice currently Now after some success MS has become arrogant , only time will tell if they will change for the better Personally i dont think MS is a gamer first company as they were when creating the Xbox and 360....while Sony is run by Kaz, who has a deep history in video games
@fermcr I never understood what people consider arrogant about Sony's reveal of the PS3. They where selling it at a loss, so they couldn't go lower on the price. So if you want something and you can't afford it you have 2 options. 1 save more or 2 make more money. Telling people to get a second job wasn't so bad of an idea was it? Would you like to sell your stuff brand new at a significant loss. Would you be willing to loose billions while doing so?
Can't wait to hear how Phil Spencer (or, yes, Chris Charla) respond to this guy's complaints. I'm guessing it'll be no more than 24hrs before we get a response.
Wow, the MS defence force is out and proud.
"Finally, based on Terathon's comment I will not expect great things from your engine. ESRAM has been around for ages, and ways to deal with it is well documented. If you can't deal with it, then I wonder about your C4 engine....." It's not that developers can't deal with the ESRAM, it's just that PS4 memory subsystem is far superior. Developers are looking at the Xbone after using PS4 and thinking "****, they're still using crappy ESRAM! what is this 2005?"
Oh dear, no one can criticize Microsoft without youy guys coming to the rescue huh? LOLchillBro, lemme act like a Microsoft spokesperson. 'THIS MAN DARES TO SPEAK VILE THINGS ABOUT MICROSOFT! HE MUST BE FAKE OR A SONY FANBOY!1111' Anyway,I always knew Microsoft treats devs like poop.
Just like you can't have an article pointing out that ps4 fanboys were duped, thinking that killzone mp was 1080p/60fps, without the article getting unapproved when the story started heating up like wildfire. The Sony defense forced made sure that got swept under the rug before it made too much noise. Quit projecting.
so.... other lazy dev, huh?
So a developer telling his side of story amounts to laziness. Interesting logic [sarcasm].
it's his pocket book that's hurt by his decision like hot serving a segment of people at your restaurant isn't good for business
I see there's no boundaries to fanboy delusion.
last time i checked i pretty sure my comment is sarcasm
well it's always best to put /s sorry but your comment sounded nothing like sarcasm
Considering that sarcasm, by definition, is saying the complete opposite of what you mean, I'd say if his intention was a dead giveaway, it wouldn't be sarcasm. Would it?
For those interested, I did some diggging and found a list of games using C4 Engine: - The 31st - Bridge! The Construction Game - Wingball - Gremlin Invasion - Gremlin Invasion: Survivor - World of Subways Vol 1&2 - Transport Simulator - City Bus Simulator 2010 - Utility Vehicle Simulator 2012 - World Hunter - Bounce! Those are the highlights, at least. Here is a full list, with screenshots to go along with each: http://www.terathon.com/scr... Make of that what you will, and decide for yourselves the value of what Microsoft may or may not be losing out on here. I'll keep my opinion to myself on this one.
But Utility Vehicle Simulator 2012 sounds like a winner /s
So shovelware is really popular with this engine, got it.
I watch some simulator videos on youtube, and they seem quite fun :)
Bounce: The ultimate boob simulator. :)
Obviously it's not an engine for AAA games but rather something a indie developer might utilise. That it's not a high end engine doesn't really make it valid for MS to treat them bad.
That 31st video looks way better than a lot of indie crap I've seen. At least it's a fps. There is some nice indie stuff out there but there is also some real trash.
I was just looking for a list. Thanks for posting it. I think I might understand why MS would have been more focused on other things at the time. Especially when you consider that the 360 also did fine with indies without the C4 engine. Still, I bet someone, somewhere will view the exclusivity of the C4 engine as a feather on Sony's cap.
This is still a bad thing. If this becomes precedent and they do this to more and more devs, they might just miss some good indie devs/games. Sony might have enough sway with these guys to turn them into major 1st or 2nd parties. Practically every big studio you see now was at one point an indie dev, basically, they didn't call themselves that back then but they pretty much were.