Microsoft has said it is "concerned" about fresh reports that UK spies considered using Kinect for surveillance
Funny Microsoft seems more concerned than Xbox fans about this. Apparently this is fine, cause everyone uses your cellphone to spy anyway. In all reality, it ALL causes me to be nauseated. It's all just damage control, the worst kind. It's never OK for a corporation to spy on you, no matter you much you like their products. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...
not sure why you are saying damage control, the GCHQ thought about surveillancing the kinect WITHOUT the consent of Microsoft, just like they did with yahoo.
Microsoft was spying on Skype users http://www.dailymail.co.uk/... and there name was dropped in Prism. http://www.heavy.com/news/2... Microsoft Windows crash reporting system http://www.geekwire.com/201... More spying information http://www.freemansperspect... How many times can a company be involved in spying scandals before people realise they're not corcerned by it, but motivated by it.
@LLLionaire not sure why you are saying Micosoft, when you dont actually bother to read your own sources, it said NSA, not MS.
zeronhero: Microsoft were among the first to join the NSA in PRISM voluntarily. They also tried to sell the Kinect's abilities to advertisers, essentially creating a system in which 3rd parties could monitor the average gamer and send tailored ads to them. They also built in backdoors to Windows for the NSA to use and gain unfettered access to anyone's computer. I find it difficult to believe that any type of monitoring involving their devices and software goes on without their knowledge and consent considering that they have spied on users themselves and have been so co-operative in helping out agencies like the NSA to do the same.
Microsoft's Xbox One policy says they spy on you. http://www.polygon.com/2013...
Microsoft and other companies like google are fighting against NSA, though I do not think they can win a fight against the NSA. My advise for potential terrorist do not buy a xb1. Jokes aside I think we should be more worried about the security of the online services, protecting personal kinect and billing data is more important. Sure hackers and NSA will be looking into ways to get acces to kinect-, laptop- cameras-, phone- data etc. - http://www.huffingtonpost.c... - http://www.pcworld.com/arti...
MS was the FIRST company to Hop on Pop when PRISM started, so don't be fooled when they act all sympathetic. Unlike Yahoo, MS's fight back against the NSA has been largely superficial.
@DragonKnight Data on your interests and purchasing patterns is a valuable commodity, and selling that data is big business. You agree to it every time you accept Sony's terms as well. I can understand concerns about a camera transmitting images of you. But Microsoft's ideas that you reference were in collecting data based on where your eyes look and possibly your facial expressions. That's not any more evil or sinister than collecting data based on what you click, it's just a damn sight more clever.
@Charybdis: Microsoft is only fighting for transparency, not fighting to prevent it. Basically, they want you to be able to know exactly what is being taken from your camera feeds, but not to stop taking it. @Volkama: 1. Just because it's big, valuable business doesn't make it acceptable. 2. I've never had an add from Sony in the entire lifespan of Playstation and in Sony's agreements you can opt out of data collection entirely. "I can understand concerns about a camera transmitting images of you. But Microsoft's ideas that you reference were in collecting data based on where your eyes look and possibly your facial expressions. That's not any more evil or sinister than collecting data based on what you click, it's just a damn sight more clever." You're condoning a third party watching you through Microsoft's camera. If you really think it's limited to the eyes only, your naivety rivals that of a child. A click of the mouse is something you choose, a camera watching you without your knowledge definitely is not. There is also no indication that that's the ONLY thing the camera is doing, especially considering Microsoft's Past in spying on their customers/service users.
I'm well aware that it's completely pointless to engage you in discussion, but hey I've got another bubble to spare :| I get adverts all over my PS3 all the time. Movies and games of interest and such. If there is an option to opt out of that data collection I haven't seen it, but then I haven't looked because I don't oppose ads being targetted rather than blanketed. As for spying, I wasn't referring to the data that various spy agencies reportedly intercept. I don't believe Microsoft are a willing party in that at all, it's massively damaging to them. I am referring to Microsoft's proposed plans to track your eyes and expressions and collect data, not transmit any imagery at all. You know this to be what I am referring to, because it was quite clear in what I wrote. Your personal attack is unwarranted. Clicking an item of interest is voluntary, but so is watching something. Most of us control our own eyes. When you decide to buy a game or watch an advert do you click thinking "hmm yes I think I fancy sending this data to advertisers", or is that something that just happens in the background? When you "clickout" of N4G are you considering who does what with the data? It's really not so different, specially in terms of ethics of it (or lack there of). I'm sure you'll come up with some well-written but entirely empty response, and I don't really care. I find you transparent and your agenda quite tedious.
For starters, I never personally attacked you. Unless of course your sensibilities are so delicate that being called naive is personally insulting and offensive to you, in which case I will continue the "personal attack" by telling you to grow up. Next I'll tell you that if you DON'T look for options to opt out of your data being collected, then you are complicit in all spying attempts large or small. You show an acceptance to violations of privacy and aren't deserving of any rights to privacy if you don't care to protect it for yourself. "As for spying, I wasn't referring to the data that various spy agencies reportedly intercept. I don't believe Microsoft are a willing party in that at all, it's massively damaging to them." Except they are a willing party. It's already been proven that Microsoft were the first to join PRISM, and that they built in back doors in Windows for the NSA. They willingly joined PRISM and they willingly built in those back doors. The government would have no way of forcing Microsoft to compromise their own product in that way. Everything we know about Microsoft's involvements in any spy related area shows their own willingness to co-operate, and in the case of Skype to engage in it themselves. "I am referring to Microsoft's proposed plans to track your eyes and expressions and collect data, not transmit any imagery at all. You know this to be what I am referring to, because it was quite clear in what I wrote. Your personal attack is unwarranted." I know what you're referring to, and I stand by the claim of your naivety. The fact you honestly believe the Kinect will only focus on your eyes just proves you to be naive. MS even sold facial expressions (meaning a focus on more than your eyes) and heart rate as a potential means to gauge interest in commodities that can be advertised. Hell, someone was able to access the camera feed of the Kinect that is sent out to Microsoft and saw that it didn't focus only on your eyes. "Clicking an item of interest is voluntary, but so is watching something. Most of us control our own eyes." This is a laughable reply. By your logic, when you're on a computer and a pop up add somehow appears on your screen, it's your choice because you looked at it. Oh of course, we're supposed to close our eyes and use the console now. Yes, that's how we protect our eyes from being spied on. You're exactly the type of person these kinds of corporations and agencies love because you tacitly accept their increased incursions and invasions of your privacy. To be accepting of marketing your facial expressions is just sad. "When you decide to buy a game or watch an advert do you click thinking "hmm yes I think I fancy sending this data to advertisers", or is that something that just happens in the background? When you "clickout" of N4G are you considering who does what with the data? It's really not so different, specially in terms of ethics of it (or lack there of)." It's COMPLETELY different. In none of those cases is there any personally identifiable information available. It's simply raw, mechanical data. The system doesn't know that it's me clicking on it, or if it's my sister, or someone visiting me and using my devices. Involve a camera, and suddenly it becomes exceptionally personal and has the potential to collect more than simple numbers and raw information. Plus, you can't argue a positive that this collection happens in the background. There is no positive for it unless you are an advertiser. That you sit here and condone a camera being used to monitor you as a person is disturbing and unfortunate.
This would be an excellent Segway for ms to unbundle the kinect if they wanted to do it early. Everyone likes not being spied on. Just a thought.
@DragonKnight: To be "fair", MS weren't planning on selling the ability for 3rd parties to watch XB1 owners, but rather the information or data MS itself gathered. How long someone looked at a commercial. Their reactions to scenes from TV shows and movies. Specific information. That the actual information gathered would be a lot more or that Kinect seems to be a better at monitoring than being a motion controller is besides the point. And that last bit was sarcasm.
@BX81: It would be an interesting situation. On the one hand, MS could prove (at least a little anyway) they have customer privacy interests in mind, as well as potentially boost their PR image and sales by unbundling Kinect for this very reason. On the other, people would likely take it as an admission of guilt and hammer them for that too. Personally, if Microsoft took that step I'd consider it more of the former than the latter because I will always give credit to any company that takes any steps, no matter how small, to stick it to any government. @Godmars290: That's a fair point to make, though I'd argue that it's merely semantics. Whether the 3rd parties had direct access to the camera feeds themselves, or MS sold them that data, the point remains that it's still being used for spying purposes. And who's to say MS wouldn't sell more sensitive information to the government?
Youve been on n4g on less than a day and all you've done is bash MS and the Xbox One. C'mon man, there's just much better things you can be doing. MS expressed concerns at a 3rd party abusing their hardware to invade customer's privacy, rightfully so.
AFTER Snowden's reveal. What did they say beforehand? ...and why is it that Microsoft built in backdoors to their Windows OS starting with Windows 95 OSR2. Last I checked the Saudi Arabian attack known as 9/11, financed by crown prince Bandar Bin Sultan and his wife happened in 2001. (aka Bandar Bush, aka the guy arming al-qeada in Syria/Libya, also involved in Iran-Contra) So why did Microsoft build in back doors for the gov't into their OS, half a decade or so before 9/11. You can't use 9/11 as an excuse if it happens before 9/11.
Funny because its obvious you haven't been keeping up with any of this in the news. It's not Microsoft that has to be reined in, but the Govt Spooks who are bypassing these companies and doing it without permission.
@yarbie1000 "Funny because its obvious you haven't been keeping up with any of this in the news. It's not Microsoft that has to be reined in, but the Govt Spooks who are bypassing these companies and doing it without permission" while what you say is completely true, like Sony's root kit, Microsoft has had the NSA KEY back door into all of windows OS since before windows 95' Back door's by the very blunt truth is "root access" thus it is by default a (rootkit) So it is what it is.
No, it's BOTH. Fascism is the marriage of big gov't and big business. BOTH ARE AT FAULT.
Please never link anything from the Daily Mail again. Thanks.
Microsoft are concerned? Yeah, they're concerned that the consumers have found out. American companies cooperate with the NSA because in return they can be rewarded with favourable trading decisions. But IF this is true, and remember Edward Snowden's info up until now has all been regarded as classified but true, then this is a betrayal of consumer trust. And Microsoft are the company with the 'Scroogled' ad campaign against Google just because they use targeted ads.
so you like people watching you from a camera while you play your xbox.
Im quite concerned too. If they ARE tracking me, I would be anxious to see the tally of total joints rolled while gaming. Im sure the number will be quite staggering.
My son, MS, you need to visit a confessional! They have obviously been in discussion with you about it! How can you drink of my blessed Dew when you try and conceal the truth? So sayeth the Doritos Pope! @Dragonknight, you should join my Order of Knights for you speak the truth! Proclaim it ! in the name of the Doradito!
atleast they are putting it to good use..
Men have fought wars throughout the test of time to defend freedom. Idiots who buy the kinect pay money to have their freedom infringed.
And I guess if you buy a Phone or Laptop or have Email or connected to the internet then you are paying to have your freedoms infringed. THEY ARE SPYING ON ALL OF THOSE. So your logic is what is a little idiotic.
That's a false equivalency. Each additional spy device is bad. You act as if it doesn't matter since there are phones, email, and laptops. 1. Why do you even bring up email? Email is supposed to be private, but you see illegally our rights are gone. So if I opened someone else's mail I'd be in jail. If a papparazzi unlocks someones phone or gets access to their email, they can be arrested. So why are you saying it's ok, when if any of us did it we'd be in jail? 2. Kinect isn't necessary. You can't email, without emailing. You can't use a phone without a phone. Please show me where you can't game without a Kinect? (besides what MS wanted to needlessly do). Kinect is unnecessary to play games and is just an addon no one wants. Plus Kinect isn't in your pocket, Kinect is perfectly situated and aimed right at your living room. Able to track whoever and whatever is in it, with night vision, and even counts your heartrate. All of the spying is bad.
@jmc8888 Kinect is necessary for motion and voice controls. Not everyone wants/needs that but clearly there are people who do. Besides, one could easily argue that phones are unnecessary as well. Do you really need a smart phone to call people? No. And the fact that your phone is always with you makes it even worse than a stationary camera. With a cell phone, the NSA can see exactly where you are any time of day, they know exactly who you are talking to and what you are talking about, they can see everything you search for on the internet... Smart phones are the NSA's best friend. I don't understand the point of your argument about illegality. Spying through the Kinect is illegal as well. The government doesn't care though. They'll continue to get away with whatever they want as long as people aren't doing anything about it. People need to stop wasting their time blaming corporations when the NSA and other spy agencies are the real source of the problem.
Perfect excuse to ditch the kinect and look good at the same time "concern for civilian privacy".
What I cannot get over about this whole thing is how complacent people are to these activities. The saddest thing I've read regarding this whole mess is people actually blindly defending a corporation such as Microsoft, simply because they own one of their products. This is absolutely ridiculous. We are talking about governments using consumer products to spy on the populace with or without the knowledge or consent of the manufacturers of said products. We should be pointing fingers at everyone involved and demanding answers, not blindly defending one company or another based on whichever fucking console you went out and bought. Grow up for fuck sake.
Please edit your comment to remove the foul language. I want your comment to be seen, and with the foul language it will be hidden. It shouldn't be hidden because it's pure fact.
Then go contact your local state senator or government official (wherever you live) and do something about it if it bothers you or has affected you so deeply. It's laughable that "certain" people on this site get so upset and continue to keep the flames burning against Microsoft when Facebook, Google, Yahoo and any other website has done exactly the same thing. And I am 100% certain that you keep on using all of those services. Instead of you and Dragon yelling at everyone and telling them not to BLINDLY follow whatever company, how about you do something productive and provide some links for us to go to and tell whoever is in charge we won't stand for this. How about you provide some petitions, rally meetings, how about you put some time together for a meeting with your local state senator and tell us where to meet you? But no, as usual the SAME people will just go from post to post commenting on how MS is evil and they want to take pics of you in your jammies while playing Ryse. Same folks yelling at everyone "why are you blindly defending MS", then turn around and use MS Word, Excel or Windows OS. Same folks using FB, Twitter, GPS on their phones, credit cards, laptops, ATM's and anything else that is extremely easy for ANYONE to track you.
What kind of statement is this? How is whether or not they talk to their congressmen change anything about the situation? It doesn't. Microsoft and the gov't are what they are regardless of if anyone says anything. These actions are illegal and yes you should be able to use your ATM without being tracked. All these devices do not need to spy on us. Now, I get your point, talk to your congressmen. Well congressmen don't exactly heed the message. That's why you need to vote the morons out. Five plus years after the 2008 crash, has one thing changed? Nope. Still no Glass-Steagall and every day the obvious solution isn't implemented, the obvious coming crash much larger then 2008 is a day closer. You actually say if it bothers you. If it doesn't, you aren't an American. I don't care, that's the truth. Maybe you aren't an american and live somewhere else, don't know. But all of this fascist crap is completely illegal. We just pretend otherwise. Illegal laws are passed all the time. Just because they are passed doesn't make illegal the legal. I'm sorry, don't you know that being on messageboard where people talk informs people? They are doing something. They are informing the masses here on N4G, one of many places to be on the internet, and educating them on the problems we face. We all should call our congressmen more. While I agree this is the most important thing to eventually do, unless you can respond in the millions on a single day, they won't listen. So if you need millions, how do you get millions? By talking with others. In person. On the internet. Wherever. Inform people.
@jmc888 "How is whether or not they talk to their congressmen change anything about the situation?" Wow, seriously....So your answer is to do nothing because nothing will ever change right? Man, the history I read must have all gotten it wrong. "I'm sorry, don't you know that being on messageboard where people talk informs people?" Inform people of what? All you do is sit in front of a computer and preach to the choir. Get out there on the streets and inform the real masses of what's going on. Get involved, inform people who to vote for and who not to. Provide info on why this politician is not good in this position, link stories of them being tied to company corruption, bribes or any other dirty under hand tactic. If you are an American THIS is what you would be doing instead of basically saying, "nothing will change whether we do it or not". And if you are not then maybe you're truly not American and appreciate your democracy. But please stop posting on N4G and yelling KINECT IS BAD and MS IS EVIL when nothing from them has provided any proof that they legitimately spied on people using Kinect. That is scraping the absolute top of a much larger and deeper problem. And lets really be honest with each other, the same people who constantly bring up NSA, MS and Kinect on this site have such a Sony bias fanboy agenda that it's so blatantly super obvious. They hit and run with their comments and fuel the "I hate MS/Xbox" to get you riled up and mad about something that never occurred. N4G is not the whole internet and it won't get you your millions as you suggested. Taking to the streets and getting the message out will, if this whole thing REALLY bothers you. But I suspect it doesn't and you will continue with your life as all of us will as usual.
LMFAO democracy.. what an absolute joke. Some of the NSA/GCHQ stuff doesn't bother me but to mass collect webcam images like this HAS to be illegal and heads should roll for it however it will all be swept under the rug.
@aiBreeze "LMFAO democracy.. what an absolute joke. Some of the NSA/GCHQ stuff doesn't bother me but to mass collect webcam images like this HAS to be illegal and heads should roll for it however it will all be swept under the rug. " While i agree with you 100%, the very blunt an honest truth is like you said it would get swept under the rug. Its really never going to be that transparent any way. "you can count on the govt to be the govt" Its not to be head long into conspiracy theory because the truth is, because the govt's of the world are pretty much have in of itself complete autonomy in the information age. The sad truth is they can hide the actions in back of security as the reasons to get away with even murder. expect the govt. to not play by the rules because none of worlds Govt are playing by the rules to be to the point is None of them are because they would be dumb if they did! that is the very sad core of the truth. these spy agency's are doing exactly what they were set up to do..spy! LMAO expecting them to not do that would kinda be silly...even spying on your own people. yes its crime, but since when has that stopped any govt issuing a licence for something? example see letter of marque In the days of fighting sail, a letter of marque and reprisal was a government licence authorizing a person (known as a privateer) to attack and capture enemy vessels and bring them before admiralty courts for condemnation and sale. Cruising for prizes with a letter of marque was considered an honorable calling combining patriotism and profit, in contrast to unlicensed piracy, which was universally reviled http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
Don't insult my intelligence, MS. "Concerned" about potential public backlash is about the extent of it.
We knew this would happen the day the bundled kinect was revealed not surprised at all..
Look at Microsoft making all sorts of announcements to try and get away from these sort of articles. Good work n4g.
Look at N4G desperately trying to approve any news to take away from MS's Xbox announcements. Yes, good work N4G.
People don't believe their Governments and corporations would do such unethical things until a whistleblower like Snowden shows them proof. And even then make excuses for them or buy the lies that come afterward. That's where terms like 'mindless masses' and 'sheep' come from. I hope that people don't just take it and say 'whatever' when they're shown violations like these. Imagine if people like Snowden didn't show us these things. Ignorance is not bliss.
The vast majority deep down dont give a damn, we are all slaves to our governments and big corporations anyways so why bother being bothered. You have as much free will as a hamster on a wheel, accept it and move on.
And just some more food for thought: Snowden papers allege NSA/GCHQ embedded in WoW, XBL http://www.gamesindustry.bi... And for all those "nothing to see here" folks: How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations https://firstlook.org/thein...
Lying arse holes. Probably sent every government in the world a dev kit for the Bone. From your beloved Microsoft your highness.
Hold on are they completely ignoring the fact that its on record they were working with them with the Kinect technology. It really annoys me when company's think people will forget so easily & try to suddenly make themselves look like the good guy, this is disgusting!
Microsoft is concerned because GCHQ didn't go through the official spying channels MS had custom built for them. "We are very concerned GCHQ has found a way to spy on our customers without having to pay us."
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