Industry insider Ashan Rasheed, also known on NeoGAF and Twitter as Thuway mentioned something that heard "down the grapevine" mentioning that Xbox One might be behind for the whole generation.
I can't imagine why Microsoft would want to withhold the power being used by Kinect. That being said and now that they have reversed course, does this open the door for an Xbox One without Kinect? Actually, by making sure that Kinnect had dedicated resources, it was supposed to be an incentive for developers to use Kinect. Without the GPU and CPU boost and with Kinect using resources, what type of machine was Microsoft preparing for developers?
I think we've known this. Microsoft kept changing the goalposts from "our hardware is just as powerful" to "we're just as powerful...once you factor in the cloud" to "we're less powerful on paper, but we invented DirectX" Now they've simply stopped making excuses and they say "we will offer the best *experience* for the next-gen consoles". EDIT: FWIW, perhaps this is a sign of Microsoft dropping Kinect? Kind of unexpected, but this rumor (if true) would make Kinect officially "optional" for every game.
I guess the power of the clouds message didn't fool as many as MS had hoped. Now with this damage control OS reduction that won't make a difference.
I was in Best Buy today and saw the XB1 sign claiming to have the best looking games. It made me chuckle.
This is the reality that people need to just accept. Developers will get better at making games for the Xbox One and the PS4. If we are already seeing a difference in resolution that says 2 very important things. The first is it speaks to the power of the PS4 and ease of accessing that power. 2nd is that developers will not be gimping their games so that they can be on par with one another.
@Mystic Well its not like they have the worst looking games. Between Ryse and Killzone its pretty much up for grabs on which console has the best looking games. I guess I will just have to settle for 30fps like we have been for many generations.
MISTERX and the clones will try to sabotage this yummy news.
The issue a lot of early adopters when then have is where can we get a $100 dollar refund from if Kinects is no longer a intergral part of the Xbox1.
Quote : ...once you factor in the cloud" to "we're less powerful on paper, but we invented DirectX"... Microsoft BOUGHT DirectX technology. Well, write RenderMorphics on Google.
Even with the GPU release, I feel like Microsoft will eventually release a Kinect-less Xbox One to compete harder. The "Arcade" version possibly.
@NatureOfLogic EXACTLY. If I was a xbox supporter I would be PISSED right now. Why do they need to do this if they have the power of the cloud????? They them selves said the cloud would turn 1 xbox into 10. Why would they need to gimp the kinect to give devs this extra power??? Why are they taking away the feature they touted as its main feature if they have 10 xbones in the cloud? If this is not proof enough of the lies and deceit that microsoft has been spouting for the past 8 months i don't know what is. When will people open their eyes? Was this not false advertising? This has to be the biggest con in the gaming industry I've ever seen.
@Hercules - When I laughed it was mainly because I was thinking of the multi plat differences we've seen so far. As for Ryse or Killzone, I don't think it's up for grabs at all. Ryse has nice character models, but overall KZ looks better. Forza's cars look nice, but overall Drive Club looks better. of course XB1 doesn't have the worst looking games, but even the possibility of freeing up a little more power still leaves it behind PS4.
Even if they drop Kinect, it's already becoming a wide-known fact that the hardware is superior inside of the PS4 case. What do you do to go against that? Despite Microsoft shaving an impressive markshare amount from Sony, Microsoft really blundered their launch and that sting resonated from May till now. What I keep reading from people is that Microsoft didn't bring their all during the last 3 years of the 360's money-making lifespan, I didn't notice, myself, but if you attempt to see their releases from the last few years, or even from launch till now, you'll notice that there is a massive difference. They're spending less, for one.
i feel sorry for xbox fans being shit at in public like this. what a pity!! The day Sony or Nintendo do this i stop playing games! EDIT: removing kinect wont make games 1080p suddenly. the console isn't powerful deal with it guys!
@abzdine "removing kinect wont make games 1080p suddenly. the console isn't powerful deal with it guys!" - The X1 can already render games at native 1080p and at 60fps. http://www.ign.com/wikis/xb...
imt558 it's not like they bought it a month ago. They bought it a long time ago when it was in it's early stages. MS is still responsible for everything there after, so your comment is void. I think it is to early for MS to really make this move. The fact that they (might) do it now, clearly shows that they have nothing else on their sleeves and that this is a desperate move. Unless this rumor is false and they have optimized the hell out of it and it will be 4% or so less.
@horse Yeah a kinect game, some sports titles, and forza 5 which is using prebaked lighting and cardboard cut out crowds while no more taxing next gen effects are utilized. That list really is alot less impressive than you think it is, if the box was more capable dr3 and ryse at the very least would run at a higher resolution as would the multiplat games The situation might improve a little with more mature tools, but parity is out of the question.
then my kinect will be getting traded in faster than a naughty foster kid.
@nature and johndoe the cloud power technically can increase processing power however you would need a flawless connection using fiber optic cables to really get the most out of it. so overall its limited to very few areas in the world and that kind of internet speed costs a high premium for the average xbox owner to afford even in those areas. connection speeds in most areas are not up to snuff yet to really take advantage of cloud processing power. so for the majority of xbox owners this is definitely a hoax
@madjedi I expected a response like yours, since the Sony crowd will use whatever justification it can to discredit the X1. "it's just a racing game." "it's just a sports game." "it's just a kinect game." and even in instances where a multiplat is 1080p on both, it's always "well, the PS4 is more powerful," or "well the PS4 has more 1080p games." Funny how they are "only sports games" on X1, but on PS4 they seem to be legit 1080p titles. Forza 5 is "just a race a game," but since Driveclub utilizes more hardware intensive techniques, now it's a game "worth" being mentioned as 1080p. It appears to have come to the point where games simply running at native 1080p aren't enough anymore. They have to be hardware intensive games, that exclude certain genres (sports, peripheral-based) and/or must also be running at 60fps...and this mindset is only after 2 months of the consoles being released... At this pace, I expect after a yr or more into release, 4k will be demanded as mandatory, framerate must be unlocked, achieving higher than 60fps, thought-based control will have to be supported, and the only excuse(s) for a game ever running at a measly 1080p, would be due to it being such a complex and hardware intensive game to develop, that the concept of quantum mechanics or calculating infinity, is dwarfed by the games development process. From what I know, as of now, Tomb Raider is still 1080p on both consoles, but I guess that falls under the "it's only running at 30fps," justification, right? Halo will likely be 1080p/60fps, but I'm sure it will also fall under a justification - perhaps the , "PS4 has more 1080p games," mentioned above? It is known that the PS4 has more powerful and easy to use hardware, but this doesn't somehow discredit every game running at 1080p and/or 60fps on the X1. If a game achieves these goals on X1, it isn't going to take away from the PS4 doing the same thing, and it isn't going to change that the PS4 is still running more powerful hardware. Some of you are so caught up in the "thrill of victory" right now, that you lash out at any good achievement X1 makes, as though it detracts from your "high." It's almost like some of the PS4 crowd aren't happy unless it is beating the X1 in absolutely everything, but not just beating it, but substantially so, almost like any indication that "the gap" is anything less than a mile wide, throws these rabid fanboys into a panicky rage.
Why can't they just admit that Don Matrick was WRONG? They should have taken their new xbox off the damn market as it was, rip out everything we didn't want, and come out a year later with something ... I don't know... KINECT-LESS? What I can't believe is that Microsoft has adverts telling people about the XBOX and Kinect while Sony just keeps playing their PS4 ads on the TV and selling MILLIONS MORE.
@ Horse I think he was implying that removing Kinect will not suddenly allow games that are not native 1080p, become 1080p. As in a game thats 720p, will not suddenly be able to be rendered in 1080p because of the freed up resources.
If this is the case dedicated, where they drop the Kinect, and maybe throw in a $100 price drop, I would consider the Xbox One. I like having the option to add peripherals to my experience at my own expense rather than having them be required. These are video games, the only thing that SHOULD be required is an online connection to play MP. For those who prefer a controller, being forced to include the Kinect in your purchase is unfair. To pay an extra $100 for that Kinect that you don't need or WANT, well let's just say I am going with a PS4.
Dropping kinect for good would be about the only way I'd buy a Xbox One. No matter the quality of games on the system, I refuse to pay for it or support it.
@cgoodno: We won't miss you! But why not support cutting edge technology that hopefully will change the way we game? Why go for the same old, same old. Forgotten how we used to play with mouse and keyboard, and now we prefer controllers? Simplicity and immersion is key to move the gaming medium forward. I don't want to be stuck in the past simply because it is the standard.
Diskinected. About time, too.
Lol maybe the all mighty cloud will handle kinect but I could see that being extremely annoying when it wasn't working properly. Either way this would upset me as an early adopter considering all the stuff they've said about kinect integration.
Ms haters will never get a Xbox, Microsoft will sell because of word of mouth. The 360 was less powerful than the ps3. Xbox got to where they are because of the games. I'm sure they'll be ok if they play their own game. Let Sony come out first with their DRM( playstation now ) and then they'll go it after it's excepted, then they'll come back with things old IP's and just keep their profit high and their over head low. You don't get it, they don't want everybody they just want the ones that are willing to spend .
All this from a 'down the grapevine' article..... Its good enough for me! :)
[rolleyes] Behind in only the graphics department...
@nukeitall: Did you just start gaming as soon as Xbox came around? Kinect isn't innovative, it isn't cutting edge, and it isn't going to change the way anyone games. No one wants it. Older gamers have seen Kinect before the Xbox and no it's worthless. Newer gamers have seen that Kinect has no games worth playing and makes it equally worthless. Face it, Kinect is garbage and everyone but diehard Xbox fans like you knows it.
Horse your reply is hilarious, if that was a rabid fanboy response you will have a rough time on n4g this gen. I do not consider any sports game to be remotely demanding, a kinect game. Judging by the last gen lineup of kinect games you will forgive me for not considering it a relevant measure of the xbox one's potential. Now had forza used more demanding effect 1080p @ 60 fps would have been a great achievement for the xbox one. Your the one bringing up 1080p games at 60 fps, i merely responded to your post, buddy if anyone is moving imaginary goalposts it's you.
@DragonKnight, Which is exactly why the PS4 Camera isn't bundled, right???
@ChrisW: The PS4 camera isn't bundled due to this new concept called "having an option." I know, I know, Xbox fans aren't used to such a radical concept, but it's a good thing. It's also not bundled because Sony didn't want to take the financial hit of bundling it and keeping the cost of the PS4 at $400, which is what they were going to do initially until they changed their mind. And then there's the fact that the camera is not a requirement of the PS4 in any way shape or form and never has been. I could go on. But seriously, look up the word "optional" and your mind will be blown.
***But why not support cutting edge technology that hopefully will change the way we game? *** Because it isn't that. It's a gimmick. And, yes, I've used it. And, yes, I put Move in the same arena as that. I feel the same way with WiiU and the "forced" tablet. These are just gimmicks to try and sell a new way to game when people aren't asking for new ways to game, just better games. ***Why go for the same old, same old. Forgotten how we used to play with mouse and keyboard, and now we prefer controllers? *** Used to? Prefer? Only for specific games. But, I'm split even between controllers and k/m. Sorry if you think there's only one way to do it or something. ***Simplicity and immersion is key to move the gaming medium forward. I don't want to be stuck in the past simply because it is the standard.*** Disagree. Immersion requires more effort when gaming is more about relaxing and putting oneself into the shoes of a hero (or villain). Immersive technology is cumbersome and requires a wider range of movement than what most hardcore gamers look for in their games. It doesn't "improve" the event of gaming, it just changes how you move. I have just as much, usually a lot more, with a k/m or controller than waving my arms about or moving my shoulder/arms around for an hour or two to simulate doing something in game. The act of making larger movements tends to make me not want to play, even. Move Sports, most of the actions were overly repetitive and not at all indicative of going out and doing the sport since you moved only a small part of your body and performed the same actions over and over, which is bad for your body.
even if they remove Kinect it won't make any difference. http://insiderp.com/ps4vsxb... 16 ROPS 12 compute units 768 shader units 2 ACE/16 queues VS 32 ROPS 18 compute units 1152 shader units 8 ACE/64 queues RAM - 8gb DDR3 at 68g/s ,eSRAM at 102g/s vs GDDR5 at 176g/s
Will be interesting to see how devs (especially first party) make use of the PS4's 8 ACE units and unique architecture over the course of the next few years.
Based Cerny. As always.Carry on, People.
Imagine how the same games will look on PC!! Over 100%-250% more powerful than the PS4, and that is only on a single card setup, imagine 2, 3, or even 4 GPUs!!! 64 ROPs vs 32 44 compute units vs 18 2816 shader units vs 1152 176 texture units vs 72 320 GB/s memory bandwidth vs 176 GB/s I hope developers don't go for the lowest common denominator as console ports typically hold back graphics for PC games. It will be such a waste if they target the low end power of the PS4. Thankfully they have been pushing the PS4 with multiplats so that is a good sign they will at least allow for higher resolution and more frames per second, but they may not program for better graphics unless a new engine is made targeting the PC market.
@unspoken lol, the 10 people in the world that have a set up that nice agree with you. Seriously man, the world troll is way over used in life, but you sir are the definition..4 GPU set up? Are you kidding me, 9/10 games run WORSE in crossfire/SLI. I bet you are a PC gamer who bought an Alienware rig and brag about your set up.
@slap He's trolling, but when you see PS4 fans talking specs in Xbox articles that's usually what they're doing too. If there was an article posted today celebrating the specs of the XBox One how do you think the comments section would look? The numbers he quotes are for a single card setup. Clearly not a card that is common or typical, but not an obscure rarity either. Also, you can get more-or-less perfect scaling with 2 cards, and very good scaling with 3.
@slapedurmomsace You dont need a nice setup you can buy a card for cheaper than a PS4 and get better looking games. The 7970 is around £200 now and blows the PS4 out the water. Plays BF4 at 1080P 60FPS+ with max settings. Consoles don't even run at max settings.
You don't even need a super computer like that, most average gaming rigs now already have specs far superior to both new consoles. Its just an optimization thing.
@ Unspoken Yes PC is more powerful then any console (hate when people say yea my PC set up is more powerful then this console! well then show us the QUALITY EXCLUSIVE's then and the ease to just turn on and play) I have never ever bought up my gaming PC/laptop to a consoles discussion! BUT that doesn't stop consoles selling over 4million... people talk about specs being this console better then that console it called a console war...
Sorry ps360s, but you don't always get to pick your battles. I can "just turn on my PC" with the press of a button, and I can launch games just as easily. With my solid state drives the whole process is significantly quicker than either console, too. Games? Exclusives? PC has the most games, the most releases, the most exclusives, the highest budget games. If you don't like being on the receiving end of a "spec war" then don't start them or participate in them at all. Now despite all that I bet you'll enjoy your PS4, right? So maybe allow XBox One owners the same courtesy.
Always a PC nob at hand because they're bored of sitting alone at their computer desk playing these great games no one has ever heard of on a keyboard and mouse - Yuck! Or are you waiting for the 300 updates and drivers to install everytime you boot it up. PC gamers - The crusty sock brigade!
@ gamer1982 you can't run games with just a graphics card you the rest of the PC also including a power supply that is stable enough to handle it and has two PCI-e connectors and a case thats big enought to physically allow the card to be fit with sufficent cooling. So in reality you need to spend at least £600- £700 on a gaming that is PS4 equivalent £1200 if it Dell alienware
If you're referring to me Phil then you have my angle all wrong. I really like my consoles. I really like my PC. I just don't like fanboys. I'd explain myself more thoroughly, but as you apparently find it hard to play a game on a PC I doubt there is much point.
@slapedurmomsace "Seriously man, the world troll is way over used in life, but you sir are the definition..4 GPU set up? Are you kidding me, 9/10 games run WORSE in crossfire/SLI." Oh look another console kid who doesn't know what they're talking about. SLI setups run better in 90% of games. Fact. End of story. Those that don't, simply don't have SLI coded into the engine, OR, Nvidia has yet to release drivers to make it work (ala DayZ Standalone as a recent example). If you had 4 cards, there comes a point where the extra power is USELESS, not UNUSED. Most games max at 200 FPS (not that you'd know what that looks like). If you reach that with 3 cards, and can maintain it, then yeah, 4 cards is USELESS.
@Unspoken You can buy a decent car with a setup like that. If you have the money for it, good for you, but for people on a limited budget well... you know that goes. What are we doing here, processing frames for Pixar? Gateway MT6706 2008
Remember though MS has that secret hidden stacked SOC that elevates it's power into the 5TF range ;). /s
@Sammy777 & The_Infected Exactly. I guess this is what happens when the hardware group and software group WORKS together. The difference in raw performance is phenomenal but without being esoteric, thats the key to all of this...the time to triangle, and mastery won't be nearly as long as in the past because of this wonderful collaboration. Thank you Mark Cerny and Thank you SONY, be very PROUD.
@Volkama: So you've played God of War? Uncharted? Last of Us? GTA? Metal Gear? These are MY favorite games series of all time. The only one on this list that yo uare able to play which I did not mention is Devil May Cry and that last one, they botched up. So PLEASE try again.... Your Pretend Console doesn't come close to my PS4.
lol everyone that disagrees with me is either a blind fanboy or just ignorantly retarded. My old gaming rig from 4 years ago has more of the whoop whoops you plebs are counting by double across the board. My gaming rig from this year has 4x the whoop whoops you plebs are fighting about. What is important is how the people developing the games takes use of that power, IE OPTIMIZATION. If a decent dev came out and spent all their time on a PC exclusive and aimed at using all of todays maximum power we would have another Crysis that consoles couldn't touch for 10 more years. But the devs go for easy money more and easy to work with static hardware and goals, with the big $$$ contracts. I love me PS4 again I have to say this or else you fanbabies seem to cry elitist, I just happen to have the best of both worlds and see through the fanboy crap. NEARLY ALL MODERN MID RANGE GAMING RIGS HAVE MORE ROPS, COMPUTE UNITS, SHADER UNITS ETC. THIS IS FACT THIS IS NOT JUST MY OPINION. IT IS SIMPLY THAT NO ONE SPENDS ALL THAT TIME OPTIMIZING PC GAMES FOR ALL THE POSSIBLE DIFFERENT COMBINATIONS OF HARDAWRE.
So you have 16 more rops... Please tell me if you even know what that does? 6 more comput units, what does that do and is that even enough to brag about? A little more shader units... what is that like 4 more fps? OK and Sony biggest bet 8 gigs of gddr5 ram that isn't really designed for complicated code vs esram which can refresh and store tricky code decency faster than normal ram yet all you see is a bigger number with a smaller price tag. I think sony should start selling tvs with two remotes to you guys and laptops with two keyboards so you can work faster. Hell i think tvs need 8 gigs of gddr5 too! Only a youth would fall fr this stuff. If you are buying a ps4 please buy it for the games and not the tech.
To all those saying PC gaming is easy and better than console gaming. I may get replies saying otherwise here but to hell with it cause this is my personal experience. Consoles have a lot more to ease of use than PC's as I constantly have to do maintenance on my gaming laptop. Yea, I have a nice alienware m17x. Its great for gaming, I hook my ps4 controller with ds4 tool to play some games like rogue legacy as well as others, but for some games I do like a keyboard/mouse for controls. Anyway I digress, my point is to keep a computer efficiently running you have to do monthly maintenance, like disk clean up/defragmenting, constantly making sure you get virus checks done, and clean dust out of your computer (although consoles have to clean out the dust too every year-is to make sure nothing happens). But then there are much more to setting up a game and issues that can come with that (example: something is not supported so you have to do such and such to fix it, like I had to downgrade my IE to IE9 so I could get this one game, as well as skype, to even show the log in screen). With console games I never have a problem installing them, no problems with incompatibility (unless your talking about backwards compatibility). Consoles are just easier to use in general.
MS has lacked direction and been unsure of their own vision from the start. Actually that's not true. They had a clear agenda at their reveal, and that agenda was we're going to screw the gamers. You can't agree with that vision but it least it was their own. However since the backlash which they obviously weren't expecting and the subsequent 180s, everything they've done has been a reaction not an action. Freeing Xbone from Kinect would just be a long line of decisions they should have made in the first place, not just in response to negative external forces.
Agreed.... Sony in the past had a trojan horse... CD/DVD/BLU Ray.... Not so much this new gen..... with the PS4 they have cleverly read the gamers market.... As for MS, with the media PC, they wanted to own the Lounge room, and realistically, thats what the One is... it was a ballsy tactic by them, but the consumers (Gamers) have spoken... The One isn't a failure by any means.... It does what it does... Its selling well enough.... However , people in the Know, know MS's roadmap to this day is remaining cryptic....... To juxtapose, Its a sheep in wolf's clothing.....
xbox 360 was behind all last generation to PS3. PS2 was behind all generation to Xbox 1. Look how those two turned out. Unless it's exclusive, it really won't matter.
What planet are you on dude. One of the 360s biggest advantages was superior third party games for most of last gen. It made up for MS' weak first party output
Xbox 360 was only behind in exclusives not multiplatform allot of Multiplatform games didn't benefit from PS3 Cell because it was too difficult to work with But Sony First party Devs got the Power out. PS2 came out first and had all the games that's why that won and had a growing Fanbase to start on thanks to PS1. Do you see where I'm getting at this generation it isn't those scenario's so you don't know how this gen will turn out.
On what planet did PS2 lose to the original Xbox??
@Jim - He means in power, but those aren't good examples to prove the point he's trying to make. 360 was less powerful but easier to work on and multi plats usually showed that, even though PS3 had the better looking exclusives. That's a huge reason why 360 held onto it's lead for so long before slipping to 3rd at the end. XB was more powerful than PS2 but launched too late to make a huge impact. This gen PS and XB launched at the same time, but PS is cheaper, more powerful, and easier to work with. "Unless it's exclusive, it really won't matter." That's not what we're seeing so far...
Blaze: that is the furthest thing from the truth. When did any xbox beat any Playstation besides the first half of last gen? Only due to the YEAR lead the xbox had. Seriously dude, do you actually believe that? Where are you getting your info from?
yeh this industry insider has something otherwise known as common sense, something that's missing within MS you are in the gaming business and just had success with xbox360 for one generation life cycle yet MS acted as if they had ruled gaming for past 2 decades its one thing to make mistakes and learn from them but its another to know 100% what your audience want even if they want something totally different
The kinect is fun to use for a few minutes but there is not a thing in games worth to run the kinect my kinect is just there to login my profile that's it. But it is garbage that the x1 is not able to run at full power what were you thinking Microsoft get your act together please
You don't need an "industry" insider to be able to see this. It's been cemented since both hardware specs were published. Only fanboys and uninformed people really think they are close in hardware.
yeah xb1 versions will be inferior to ps4 ,but not buy big difference ,games will still look great on both versions ,they will havesame effects but devs will have to sacrifice will resolutions ,on the exclusive side there will be war of better exclusives ,obviosly cluod will help devs to get more better looking graphics on xb1 and this year at e3 they first time will show the games running with the help of cloud,i know this becasue i'am having some connections with the industry ,this e3 gona be amazing ,first time we will see games running with the cloud and taking advantage of it and yeah cloud computing is possible we will look it at e3.
Cloud can not run a game better unless you have Internet. No Internet no cloud. So how will ms solve the problem of reaching parity for those without Internet? Also more to the point: Cloud is b.s . The cloud can not think faster than an on-board CPU. While it may be able to do distance textures and some weather and lighting effects it cannot make character models in motion look good as there is too much latency. Also if Microsoft can do cloud Sony can just as easily.
Xbox will win this gen with exclusive triple A games