Respawn: Cloud Is What Enables Titanfall To Have All This AI

Respawn's Jon Shiring explains why the Cloud is crucial for Titanfall, not only for Xbox One but for all its versions, X360 and PC included.

[AceBlazer13]

Considering the game is online only, I would imagine the internet is crucial to it.

[thekhurg]

http://n4g.com/news/1432311...

[mewhy32]

but what about those that are still on dialup and those that don't even have internet access at all like the soldiers server over seas or sailors. wow. this sure sounds like they just don't care about those people at all. pretty arrogant.

[JeffGUNZ]

@ mewhy32

So the VERY FEW people who own consoles and don't have internet, we need to cater to? Give me a break, gaming isn't in the bill of rights, it's a hobby. Our soldiers, really? I'm sure our soldiers are more worried about keeping themselves and their fellow soldiers alive and could care less about titanfall having to wait a little for them to come home. This game is designed for the masses, which means a great portion of gamers having internet connections. Stop your liberal/socialist like comments.

[Hatsune-Miku]

M.A.G on PS3 was able to support 256 people online seamlessly without issue and no use of this 'cloud'.

I'm wondering if the reason titan fall looks like a last gen game and runs In 720p with 6vs6 gameplay is because of the cloud.

[GameNameFame]

So cloud allows AI in MP.

LOL. Yes, but dedicated servers allow AI on MP too.

Cloud can do same stuff as dedicated server. Idk why some people try to hype this as some magic secret sauce.

Cloud or dedicated servers are good for gaming, but Sony, EA, Activision all of them have dedicated server or cloud that could do same or have done MORE with it.

It is just some desperate talk now that that this is some secret sauce. It is good, but everyone else have it practically. lol

[BitbyDeath]

@hatsune,

MAG doesn't use cloud for those 256 people.
Heavenly Sword on the otherhand had hundreds of AI onscreen all with different tasks.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007...

[ambientFLIER]

Hatsume -Makaka -

"""M.A.G on PS3 was able to support 256 people online seamlessly without issue and no use of this 'cloud'.

I'm wondering if the reason titan fall looks like a last gen game and runs In 720p with 6vs6 gameplay is because of the cloud."""

Mag doesn't have 24 AI soldiers and 12 Titans running around on their own in addition to humans. There are only human players. Nice trolling, though. No wonder you have one bubble.

[bennissimo]

@gameonbro

I thought the same thing when I read his comment. Someone likes to have it both ways.

[jden28]

The real difference between Microsoft's and Sony's cloud computing capabilities comes down to infrastructure, control, adaptability, and money.

Infrastructure- M$ has over 300,000 servers dedicated to it's cloud compute task, Sony has Gaikai, and has retained the services of Rack space.

Control- M$ owns it's server network and can do as it pleases i.e. put all or none of the resources toward gaming. Sony owns Gaikai, but the agreement with Rackspace suggests that it's not capable of pulling off what Sony wants by it's self, and Sony is only a client of RackSpace they don't own it so they can't deem their project the most important and use all resources

Adaptability- M$ has been running servers for decades including for gaming, Microsoft has also said that it has dedicated 3X the power in the cloud for evey XONE out there, with more to be added, Sony has little to no experience in this area thus the purchase of Gaikia and lease agreement with Rackspace, and has commited to no actual numbers.

Money- I hate to pull this card but M$ is sitting on tens on Billions of excess cash that it can spend on whatever it wants, Sony just sold off 2 of it's world head quarters to have some operating cash, So it's not a question of who can afford to build out the larger, dedicated cloud system that they control

[r2oB]

@ jeffGUNZ

Think about the amount of Xbox 360 consoles in the world. Now think about the number of XBL gold subscribers (these are the people that play online). If the number of XBL gold members is less than half of the amount of 360s in the world, then I would say there are more than a VERY FEW people who own consoles that don't have internet and/or don't have a desire to play online multiplayer. Just sayin'.

[hkgamer]

@jden

stop comparing ms cloud to sony cloud. they do different things.

[Computersaysno]

Do we want cloud to provide more AI or cloud servers to allow more real players?

Dat cloud so thick preventing more real players?

It all sounds like so much BS. Who really wants more AI in an online multiplayer game.

[gigoran]

@JeffGUNZ
Are you for real? You think that game makers shouldn't care about the soldiers at all? In your own words, you are saying they are not important. There are young people in the military. People probably the same age as you. Fighting for the freedom you enjoy every day. The freedom that lets you sit on your butt all day playing games and eating pizza. Lets measure the importance between you and a soldier. Soldiers risk their lives for their country. You do nothing all day. If anything, the game makers should help them and ignore your needs.

[WalterWJR]

The only kind of cloud gaming that means anything to me is Final Fantasy VII.

I will see it when I believe it but for this day and age it is a gimmick as far as I can tell.

onagao I thought Forza was using the the cloud technology. why can't we benchmark the performance of it?

[Naga]

Seeing how no other games have even tried anything substantial with this, I don't think it's entirely fair to call it a gimmick. Rather, it might be better to consider this the first viability test of cloud reliance in gaming.

Perhaps we should reserve judgment on the cloud until this game comes out, and we have some performance to properly judge.

[WalterWJR]

I will also add it's a shame all this cloud technology could not add more than 6v6 real players instead "To Have All This AI".

HYPERBOLE this game has been since E3. It is common practice for marketing teams and journalists to big up something so much that they just know the sheep will come out to play regardless of having any clue how the final product will actually turn out.

And please don't call me an Xbox hater, Sony fan lover. Yes I own a PS4 but if I really did like the look of this game I would buy it on PC.

[Eonjay]

@onago

Every MMO game has some sort of server side AI.

[Naga]

@ WalterWJR

The reason we cannot apply Forza's cloud computing as a benchmark for its performance is because it was not a real-time usage thereof. What Respawn is doing here is attempting real-time computing and application in multiplayer games.

Forza used the cloud, yes, but it essentially gathered information and churned out AI packages. This is a constant AI stream back and forth, which is far more ambitious.

@Eonjay
While that's true, it hasn't seen widespread application on consoles, and has not been used as part of the oft-touted Xbox Live Cloud. Hence my original argument that this will be the first real test of Microsoft's more ambitious cloud claims, and that we should therefore reserved judgment until we see how this plays out. Is that not fair to say?

[Deadpoolio]

@Naga Well except of course for M.A.G. which allowed 256 players in a match at 1 time with dedicated servers, and ran perfectly fine..But no no other game has tried more than 6 V 6 with A.I without needing a cloud...

[ambientFLIER]

Walter -

""I will also add it's a shame all this cloud technology could not add more than 6v6 real players instead "To Have All This AI."""

What does the cloud have to do with adding human players? Nothing. It's there specifically to power the AI...

[ThatOneGuyThere]

Sim City used the cloud. Worked out great for everyone. oh...wait....that was a complete CLUSTER.

[H0RSE]

@Walter

"I will also add it's a shame all this cloud technology could not add more than 6v6 real players instead "To Have All This AI".

- The 6v6 aspect of the game was a deliberate design choice. They tested numerous player amounts and found 6v6 worked best for what they are trying to accomplish and the experience they are trying to deliver to players. It has nothing to do with the cloud or hardware limitations.

[DOMination-]

Deadpoolio
MAG didn't have AI. All 256 players were humans so no server side computing was required. also from what I remember MAG was near universally panned so just because it had more players doesn't mean it was better.

[abzdine]

well it's 1080p 60FPS because of the cloud :D These are Turn 10 words.
http://www.oxm.co.uk/65749/...

[Eonjay]

My understanding is that the AI's decision making subs are processed on the server (cloud) instead of by an individual clients. If the AI are supposed to interact with the players the server will keep track of everyone's positions and tell the all the clients what the AI should be doing at the time. Its supposed to reduce latency and reduce cost to the CPU.

As long as Xbox Live's Match Making can intelligently pair players to reduce network latency, it can be a nice asset. Its not really new. But the implementation of cloud based AI in an FPS might be.

[ThatOneGuyThere]

however, if youre console wasnt a total turd in the performance department you could rock high REAL player counts all day long. AI will NEVER be as fun as real players.

[H0RSE]

@ThatOneGuyThere

/facepalm...

when are you people like you going to get it through your heads that the devs tried high player counts and it didn't work out the best for gameplay. Also, the AI are not acting as teammates/bots. Bigger isn't always better...

And putting "NEVER" in caps, doesn't make your statement a fact... It's an opinion. Many people enjoy bot matches, especially with friends. That being said, bot matches aren't present in Titanfall.

I really hope Titanfall 2 comes out on PS4, and they still have 6v6. I really want to hear your reasoning then.

[Gamer1982]

So much for cloud making games better on xbox. Like Forza its gonna be used for AI profiles.. So it will be like fighting real people as the bots will be based on real people.. So bots are gonna get cheap and dirty like 12 year old kids who play this type of game... I can see it now 50 bots sniping on a hill..

[marinelife9]

I don't want anyone's AI in my online multiplayer game. AI tends to be cheap or irrelevant never human like.

[gazgriff2k12]

infinity ward respawned into a cloud fart ha

[Captain_J_Sheridan]

A lot of cloud computing is just bullshit. Good AI is not made on the cloud, it's made with good coding

[Morpheuzpr]

Funny thing is that COD ai, which this people coded is one of the worse ai there is. Head shot all day and if you take cover a million grenades land on your feet.

[-Foxtrot]

I really think with these new consoles and what they can both do now compared to last gen that Titanfall would be able to do that without the cloud. I mean it's an online only game aswell so it's not like you have a single player to worry about, all your time goes into the main game, the online, so surely after so many years of development and with new powerful consoles they would be able to do that without the cloud.

[mhunterjr]

It's not about hardware limitations. It's about inefficiencies associated with having AI computations handled by a local host.

In an online game, any of the players could be the host at anytime (host migration), that means that the game has to be coded so that CPU is reserved for host duty and AI computations. This means that even of you aren't the host, a portion of your CPU is unavailable to you, just in case you have to be the host later. That's essentially wasted CPU that could be used for other processes.

It doesn't matter how powerful the hardware is, handling this process locally would always be wasteful, not to mention there would increase latency.

[5eriously]

Why would such waste be a problem if the CPU/GPU had all the reserve power available? So are we saying that the cloud are compensating for the lack of hardware power in the console?

[staticdash22]

Lol I don't think your comment came out the way you wanted it to. What you are suggesting is that the cloud somehow makes up for the lack of hardware power.

[mhunterjr]

@5eriously

Huh? Why would you ever want to waste anything? It doesn't matter how powerful your system is, if you have an online game, using a dedicated server to handle processing is always the super method. Not only does it allow you to more efficiently use the local hardware, but it also drastically improves the networking.

There is absolutely no gameplay benefit to using a local host in an online game. The only reason p2p was ever popular is because it's cheaper for developers. there's a reason PC games have been using this same method forever, despite being more powerful than consoles.

@staticdash22
I don't think you ready my comment. This is a superior method regardless of hardware power.

[mhunterjr]

It's not about hardware limitations. It's about inefficiencies associated with having AI computations handled by a local host.

In an online game, any of the players could be the host at anytime (host migration), that means that the game has to be coded so that CPU is reserved for host duty and AI computations. This means that even of you aren't the host, a portion of your CPU is unavailable to you, just in case you have to be the host later. That's essentially wasted CPU that could be used for other processes.

It doesn't matter how powerful the hardware is, handling this process locally would always be wasteful, not to mention there would increased latency.

[H0RSE]

I don't think it's an issue of Titanfall not being able to do this without the cloud, and more about it being able to it better with the cloud and/or a situation of it's there, why not use it? It's like if you're going a trip. You could walk or bike and it's not a huge deal, but if your friend drives by and offers you a ride, why not take it? Not only will you get to where you're going, but you'll get their faster and with less effort.

[UnHoly_One]

You're wasting your time, H0RSE.

The only people that are understanding your comments are the people like me that already know all of this stuff.

Everyone else is just hating for the sake of hating, because their console of choice isn't getting this game, or because they want the game to be something it isn't.

It's a new concept for an online shooter, something different than what everyone else has been churning out for the last 10 years, but all of these guys don't understand that and just want to assume it's "cod with bots", which couldn't be further from the truth.

Everyone wants something new and different, until we get it, then they want the same old garbage.

It's unreal.

[Gardenia]

If you really think cloud is needed to have a game like Titanfall running you are crazy. It's a marketing stunt for the Xbox, and not a good one

[snake_eater]

Sure, let's see how many years EA/MS will keep those cloud servers active...

[DSCesq]

I would imagine that they will keep them active as long as it's relevant to do so.

[Death]

Do a little research on Azure. Cloud is the marketing term, the servers are what make it possible. It's not something new, just the scope of it. Not many companies have the resources to invest so heaviliy into server farms such as this.

The only company I see some what regularly that shuts servers down is Sony. Not a diss, just an observation.

[DevilishSix]

The only company you see shutting down servers regularly is Sony, really. I recall articles all the time on server shut downs and you know who from.......EA!

As I have stated before good luck with Titanfall from EA.

[Death]

You are correct. EA does indeed shut down servers. I was responding to the MS part of the post and not third party solutions. EA has a unique agreement with Microsoft where they are not using Live servers. Gamers get passed from Live servers to EA servers for hosting/matchmaking in game. Titanfall is relying on the Azure servers for it's "cloud" features and not EA servers unless EA is leasing them from Microsoft. It would be interesting to see what the arrangement is.

[TheRedButterfly]

They only shut down the Halo 2 servers last year… So I'd say that Titanfall is going to be fine.

[hiptanaka]

Uh huh.

[hankmoody]

Signed up for the Alpha and preordered the controller. I think that had I preordered the collector's edition as well, one of you might have had to stage an intervention.

[Hellsvacancy]

Is this Alpha registration thingy fake, you may want to check

[hankmoody]

Nope. It's confirmed. If it was fake, there would have been an official word by now by Respawn and/or EA at the very least.

[SirBradders]

Dude you better double double check i see see an article from respaw clearly stating there is no beta planned yet.

[NeoTribe]

There is no beta planned. You got scammed.

[Edward75]

Its the ALPHA not the beta. Sir bradders. Same to you neo. He never said beta. Why are you guys changing what he said?

[gigoran]

So in the future when the cloud is going, this game becomes a piece of plastic? Game collectors may want to consider that when purchasing a xbone.

And if the cloud is responsible for them being able to do this thing they consider magical with the AI, why not use this fantasmic power to increase the actual player count like everyone wants instead? Oh... because it's NOT as magical and amazing as they all make it out to be? Shocked!

[hankmoody]

That PS4 of yours is still awaiting greatness I'm assuming.

[MysticStrummer]

Only if game reviews and sales don't count.

[gigoran]

Oh you mean the PS4 that is going to have games that function 100% after the system is no longer supported and can still be played and used as a classic gaming system in the future for collectors? Oh yeah... TOTALLY waiting for greatness.

[DJ]

...why make this Online at all then? If half the battlefield is AI, why not just go all out with full AI. I either want all AI or all humans. Not a weird mix.

[green]

I am no expert but from what i have been reading about cloud implementation in games is that the advantage of heaving the A.I in the cloud is that they can be dynamic. You can change their behavior etc on the fly without requiring the user to download a patch.

[torchic]

so the cloud doesn't make the AI smarter?

seems like a bit of a faf to me. cloud doesn't seem as though it brings big gains to the game. time will tell

[DevilishSix]

It's EA we are talking about here. Looks at their track record (DS3, Sim City, BF4, etc. etc.) and concludes online only will be crap. Support EA if you want to but not me, they are the worst and have burned far to many gamers to many times. So good luck with your Titanfall from EA.

[andrewsqual]

Now I know why Half Life 2 wasn't one of the greatest games of all time lol. Cloud AI.
Oh and its on the same game engine as Titanfall.

[pandehz]

A child can reason better

[iceman1346]

cloud..LMFAO

[FullMetalTech]

Lets see how cloud works when ISPs start throttling connections. With that new ruling it could very well affect it big time down the line.

[creatchee]

It will work as well as Playstation Now.

Keep trolling.

[Hicken]

Which won't work very well at all, if what FullMetal says comes to pass.

What does PlayStation Now have to do with it? If ISPs are allowed to do what they want with your connection- which includes possibly charging you extra to connect to Live and PSN- then the cloud AI will suffer. PSNow will suffer. Online gaming in general will suffer, if only here in the US.

I doubt the ruling will be upheld, but stupider things have happened.

Which part of making note of this potential and very real future is trolling? Methinks you're being a bit too defensive.

[shadowwizard]

I GOT THE POOOOOWAH.

[CELLA]

power of the cloud ps4 cant do this run titanfall on its console

[Majin-vegeta]

Then how were they gonna get this to run on PS4??We all knew it was coming until EA made the deal behind Respawn.

http://www.jacehallshow.com...

Something fishy going around here.

[Gazondaily]

Do you even know what cloud computing is? Sony has access to dedicated servers too you know.

[CELLA]

greatness awaits for the ps4 yeah in your dreams but the future is in the xbox one power of the cloud for the games

[maniacmayhem]

@Majin

http://www.purexbox.com/new...

http://www.gamespot.com/art...

http://venturebeat.com/2013...

Notice how every rumor before the Xbox One reveal said Respawn was working on an exclusive for the new Xbox??

Do you truly believe Respawn didn't know but industry journalists and websites did?

Respawn did know, they are just calming the rabid internet (fanboys) down because we all know how the internet can get when it comes to these types of things...
*cough* 6v6 *cough cough*...

[WeAreLegion]

Cloud To Butt is the best thing I've ever installed.

The title of this article is now

"Respawn: Butt Is What Enables Titanfall To Have All This AI"

Here's the link for Chrome users: https://chrome.google.com/w...

[WeaseL]

So any game that has bots is now called cloud AI

[ambientFLIER]

no.

[LightofDarkness]

Another one who doesn't know what bots are. Look it up before you use that word again.

[Festano]

Drivatar is a great example of how you use the cloud, we are just at the beginning and Microsoft must commit to offer this service by helping and involving software house.

[BcozoftheImplication]

LOL!!!

[EazyDuz22]

Joint operations on PC was made years ago and supported ai bots and online multiplayer at once. How is this supposed to be next gen and why is this mystic cloud even needed?

[ambientFLIER]

The cloud offloads the processing for the 36 AI characters so that the xbox spends its resources on something else. On top of that, the cloud makes the AI smarter than just regular bots.

[yogaflame]

These game is big and will turn things around for xbox one , these game is the envy of all ps4 gamers. Sony must prepare against these legendary in a making game.

[Alexious]

Yeah, they're so envious that they'll be playing it on PC without even owning an Xbox One, and at a much higher resolution/frame rate.

[annus]

Do you not read any Sony articles? The majority all go with the claim that PC gaming is expensive, I don't think many of the dedicated Sony fanboys will be playing this game.

[Alexious]

@annus: Titanfall use the Source engine, it's not a heavy game at all. I predict even a toaster will be able to run it (after all, it has to run on Xbox 360 as well).

[tontontam0]

@annus

where have you been reading
when I read ps4 articles I always see

ps4+pc best combo blablabla
ps4+pc+wii u best setup evah!!!! bla bla bla

[madjedi]

Lol of all those exclusives xbox fans can hype up, titanfall is the least enviable to alot of people. Not everyone is a fps addict, mp games are fun but we have other genres to play.

It's a online only competitive fps, it will attract the hardcore fps crowd. I wouldn't expect titanfall to do incredible sales it's a 60 dollar online only game.

Ask mag, warhawk or shadowrun how warm a reception they got at launch with their price points. A mecha game that has no single player missions, and only competitive online play.

The only thing legendary about this game is how much hype you people are putting on it. Give me crackdown 3 over fucking titanfall any day. It's on the 360 as well, why will it push xbones again?

I think your confusing envy with indifference, because i haven't heard any ps4 gamers talking up titanfall, destiny yes.

[ambientFLIER]

Because every PS4 gamer that wants Titanfall just happens to have a gaming PC that is capable of running it at a higher rez and more than 60fps?

[zeroskie]

I guess the PC version will have neutered AI?

[urwifeminder]

Glad more info is starting to come out looking forward to it fun times ahead.

[JohnS1313]

Not the cloud crap again. Enough already.

[TheKayle1]

is this hard to understand that cloud computing is something that help? the ps now service ..with a 5mb (3mb is the minimum requirement) connection can make u stream and play ENTIRE GAMES with not big latency problem (this RIGHT NOW..not in a unknow future..the service will start this summer)...and ..some of you is callign bullshit that a dev make an external server calculate some ai?...are you serious?
some ppl here should take into account that both console will make use of the cloud computing if not now..in the next few years...expecially one that is designed to do it

look at this
playstation now...can stream and make you play ENTIRE GAMES from the "cloud" (sony dosnt have a cloud network they rent servers eh..jsut to be clear..also for what was called gaikai/ ps now)...
so what if FUTURE games..will make stream some PART of the games...like backgrounds..weather effects...ai ....maybe with different or variable resolutions mixing the stream with the local render...maybe on another plane than the main target render :O maybe in somewhat we seen called one of the 3 display planes on the xbox one :O

"The three display planes are independent in the following ways, among others:

They can have different resolutions.
They can have different precisions (bits per channel) and formats (float or fixed).
They can have different color spaces (RGB or YCbCr, linear or sRGB).
Each display plane can consist of up to four image rectangles, covering different parts of the screen. The use of multiple screen rectangles can reduce memory and bandwidth consumption when a layer contains blank or occluded areas.

The display hardware contains three different instances of various image processing components, one per display plane, including:

A hardware scaler.
A color space converter.
A border cropper.
A data type converter.
Using these components, the GPU converts all three display planes to a common output profile before combining them."

..you think this is possible or everything is a bullshit ...(this mean also ps now)

so stream and calculate graphics/effects/ai/movements/ main character oh well ..we do fast saying ...to play entire games from ps now to the ps4.....yea is cool possible and everthing...

cloud calculating the ai on xb1..or other little thing...OH ThiS IS A BULLSHIT...ahahahah some ppl really are ridiculous

[windblowsagain]

Respawn please STFU.

[SharnOfTheDEAD]

Skeptical, too many games in the past boasted about AI and never delivered. Just another posh buzz word for 'Cannon fodder'

[Toman85]

Like I said a million times. If a game don't have a singleplayer, then I won't bother buy it.
Have Xbox One and TitanFall is not a game I will buy on it, not for my PC nor on my X360.

But cloud this and cloud that is getting old by the hour.

[Qwagy UK]

certainly not the power of the hardware!

[gamer7804]

This begs the question.... what happens to the 360 version?

[nohopeinc]

Without already playing this game I can guarantee this statement is a lie. See Sim City for details.

[KontryBoy706]

Too bad the cloud can't seem to have a higher player count than 6 v 6

[MilkMan]

What AI? its 6 on 6 and if multiplayer only.

[Azic]

Oh the old cloud chestnut again....

/Pinches of Salt and all that.

[stormplyr]

lol more cloud PR speak

[frostypants]

This is all such a load of horsesh*t.

[mochachino]

So no point getting the PC version then. Lame.

[lesrima88]

"oooh the power of the clouuudz"give me a fucking break...

[x_RadicalAura_x]

I thought the "power of the cloud" was exclusive to the Xbox One, yet Titanfall's on PC as well... Whoops. Go ahead and keep handing out that money under the table, Micro$oft.

[Shane Kim]

Teh cLouDz can't up the player count though :P

[fallensniper77]

Okay if it's only possible on the cloud then how is this game coming to xbox 360?