Mark Rubin: Carmack and Mikami "a Bit Inaccurate" on PS4 and Xbox One Being Almost Identical

Call of Duty: Ghosts Producer Mark Rubin was interviewed today by Metro, and the interview took a rather weird turn as he was asked about the difference between Xbox One and PS4, with Rubin and a PR representative almost literally at a loss for words, and not because they didn’t want to respond.

Interestingly enough, Rubin mentioned that he thinks John Carmack and Shinji Mikami are "a bit inaccurate" when saying that the two platforms are almost identical. He also mentioned that he doesn't know if the power gap will ever close.

[allformats]

That was a very telling interview.

Scroll to the part where the interviewer asks about Why the resolution of Ghosts is 1080p and PS4 and 720p on Xbox One. You'll be left with no doubt in your mind concerning which console is better.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/...

[ZodTheRipper]

This statement plus the fact that one version of his game runs in twice the resolution than the other is enough information for me.

[abzdine]

he actually told more than he thought.
this is getting fun!

[rambi80]

Wow. i can't believe he said that at this point in time. They are such a core part of the xbox experience.

I get the feeling that there is some bad blood between MS and quite a few Pubs/Devs.

[Freedomland]

Well nothing else to say now.
The ship has sailed, war has been won.

[mewhy32]

well we all knew that the PS4 was at least 50% more powerful than the xbone. why is everyone so surprised about how this is turning out?

[EXVirtual]

@mewhy, because they were thinking that the power of the cloud and the dGPU misterXmedia was yammering on about were legit.

Aside from that, people were convinced that the specs on the paper didn't mean anything in terms of real world performance.
But from seeing the interview that allformats provided, it's getting clearer and clearer by the day as to which console is better in terms of specs. Yet, they are stilling clinging to straws when it comes to the power debate. Go check MisterXMedia's blog and you'll know what I mean.

[Enemy]

Carmack, Mikami, and others are paid to say both consoles are equals. They're 3rd parties after all. If they come out saying the PS4 is stronger, it'll create problems between them and Microsoft. They're supposed to lie to keep things "at balance."

For Mark Rubin to come out and say this though is surprising. Things must not be going well between Activision and Microsoft since Titanfall. They feel betrayed.

[darthv72]

Regardless of the fine print....i dont buy systems because of their similarities. i buy them because of their differences.

such as there will be games on both that cant be experienced any other way. the keeping things quiet or making them known does not sway my decision to buy both in any way.

[stuna1]

Exactly! No one I've heard has said that the Xbox1 won't have its benefits for what it does, for example the use of the Cloud will make matchmaking better! Dedicated servers! Online saving, and what have you. But as of now the PS4 is showing itself to be the better constructed for gaming, which is what consoles are made for! Don't misconstrue what I'm saying, this is not me saying that they can't do, and shouldn't do more! That's quite the opposite of what I'm saying. Plain and simple, the focus should be gaming first, everything else secondary! Or else the title "Gaming Consoles" really doesn't apply, now does it!?

[LonDonE]

@rambi80
agreed, this is what i have seen saying all along its just strange the cod ghosts situation and also that destiny made by bungie who were instrumental in making the xbox a success end up coming out on stage on Sony stage and revealing the game play of their game!

Maybe Activision can see that the PS4 is going to be the market leader this gen, and also the fact that Microsoft and ea are now in bed together! maybe Activision are a little miffed at M$ for jumping into bed with ea! maybe Activision are trying to win over Playstation gamers now after giving us the short end of the stick the whole of last generation!

Cod has mostly been terrible on PS3 compared to 360, i just find it strange that a brand like call of duty which has always been advertised like a xbox exclusive, with adverts and exclusive timed dlc etc is now better on Playstation! a few years ago this would of been unheard of, no one would have believed it!

But now the way mark rubin just came out and confirmed the resolution was lower on x1 compared to ps4 was strange, and then now all this reading between the lines, he is basically saying the ps4 is the way to go without actually coming out and saying it!

Seriously Microsoft would have never allowed a rival platform to have a better version of a game! especially call of duty! they didn't allow it last gen, so what's changed this gen?

Obviously since sony and PS4 are in a much better position now, and is most likely going to be lead platform on consoles! M$ are in serious trouble i tell u!
I have a feeling activision are intentionally trying to annoy M$, its entertaining to watch!
Something strange is going on!

[johndoe11211]

That guy, is brave. Interesting article. I'll take his words over Carmack's because he actually developed a game for both systems whereas carmack made that statement and then admitted he really didn't get enough time to delve into the systems. Why he made the comment in the first place is beyond me.

[badz149]

@zod18

twice the resolution? twice means 100%, try 125%!

[Eonjay]

GC: Do you think everyone else will have these same problems? All these other cross-generational games that are out at launch?

MR: Well, I think they’ve already said they are haven’t they? Battlefield 4 is 720 on Xbox One and I think 900 on PS4? Titanfall has said they’re 720… So we’re not the first to say we’re 720 on the Xbox One

GC: No, no. So they’re all obviously hitting the same wall.

Mark Rubin: Yeah, so you’re reading that correctly in that it’s not specifically us doing something villainous. It’s a thing where all of us have to work at getting better at developing for both consoles. And that’s the fun part. I always use the analogy that the first game on a new console is always like an awkward first date, but once you know a lot more about each other it’s a lot better.

[FamilyGuy]

Lmao, how unexpected
The sudden tech question, not the answers.

"GC: So the obvious assumption from all this is that the PlayStation 4 is definitely more powerful than the Xbox One, is that true?

MR: [acting very embarrassed] I can’t answer that.

GC: You can’t answer it on a technical level or because you’re being diplomatic?

MR: Can’t answer that.

GC: You can’t say whether you’re avoiding the question for diplomatic reasons?

MR: [embarrassed] I just can’t say anything…

[Even the attending PR guy is looking embarrassed by this point]

PR guy: It’s very hard for us to be…

GC: Are the console manufacturers leaning on you to avoid these sort of questions?

MR: [unsure - speaking to PR guy] I don’t know if that…

MR: [even more embarrassed to us] Yeah, there’s things that we… We sign NDAs with the first parties [i.e. Microsoft and Sony - GC] and there are things that we’re not allowed to talk about.

GC: So when John Carmack and Shinji Mikami say the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 are almost identical, is that something you could agree with?

MR: Hmm… I would say that’s a bit inaccurate but I wouldn’t be able to tell you any detail of why that’s inaccurate.

GC: For diplomatic reasons?

MR: Yes."

[Computersaysno]

Dun dun dunnnnnnnn!

Microsoft don't want developers spilling the beans whether it's obvious or not. Surprise!

[thehitman]

GC: Do you think everyone else will have these same problems? All these other cross-generational games that are out at launch?

MR: Well, I think they’ve already said they are haven’t they? Battlefield 4 is 720 on Xbox One and I think 900 on PS4? Titanfall has said they’re 720… So we’re not the first to say we’re 720 on the Xbox One.

GC: No, no. So they’re all obviously hitting the same wall.

MR: Yeah, so you’re reading that correctly in that it’s not specifically us doing something villainous. It’s a thing where all of us have to work at getting better at developing for both consoles. And that’s the fun part. I always use the analogy that the first game on a new console is always like an awkward first date, but once you know a lot more about each other it’s a lot better.

Ouchhhhhhhhhhh

[CenturyDemolitons]

So 720 X 2 =1080... I like your math good sir

[ThanatosDMC]

@CenturyDemolitons

It's actually 1280×720 vs 1920x1080. Huge difference.

[FANTA1180]

you do realize that raw power doesnt mean a console is better right?...

i mean this is why nintendo has a higher install base with the wii versus ps3 & xbox360

[rambi80]

Yeah, price is usually a major factor in establishing a user base...but that fact doesn't help MS either

[Themba76]

thats because the wii catered to casuals which is a 1 hit wonder that will never happen again. casuals moved on to there cell phones and tablets.

[GribbleGrunger]

It doesn't necessarily make games better but it definitely makes the console better, which should then lead to better games. It's not rocket science ya know.

[Mister_Dawg]

Xbox was better than PS2.
It didn't get better games.

[HighResHero]

You're right that power alone won't make the PS4 great, but Sony's large list of talented studios probably will.

[Enemy]

Lol poor FANTA. If this was Xbox One being the most powerful console, you'd be throwing Sony under the bus even more, as usual. Deal with the facts, everyone already knows.

With Sony's 1st parties waiting to reveal their PS4 exclusives AND the PS4 being 50% more powerful, your argument is invalid.

But hey, $100 more means it's better, right? Poor misinformed souls. Weaker hardware, less 1st parties, less exclusives in the long run due to less 1st party developers and ignoring indie devs. It just keeps piling on.

[jukins]

and that higher install base literally is doing nothing for nintendo now while the lower install base of the 360 and ps3 are still very well alive and kicking. Raw power does make a console better. As we'll see with both the ps4 and xb1

[zebramocha]

@mister dawg the original xbox came out 18 months after the ps2 so that doesnt count.

[-EvoAnubis-]

True - the Wii has a huge install base. And yet third party games on the 360/PS3 are blowing Wii sales out of the water.

Having an install base doesn't mean much if that install base isn't buying games.

[Caffo01]

@FANTA1180
so you must think the WII is the best console of the generation because it has sold that well right? right???
Sales don't equal quality, COD sales prove that.
Power on the other hand, as long as devs are creatives, can be really helpful.

[mistertwoturbo]

Except in this case, the PS4 is more powerful, will have tons of 1st party and 3rd party games, and is $100 cheaper. That means a console is better overall FOR YOUR MONEY.

[ziggurcat]

"you do realize that raw power doesnt mean a console is better right?... "

actually, it does.

because it can do more. quit trying to argue that a weaker console is better.

[insomnium2]

@Mister_Dawg

You mean that multiplats weren't better on xbox? Really? Qualitywise?

Hell games like Splinter cell needed to change things (Cut something out) iirc to get it run on PS2. Somewhere around where that one guard spits in the food and the cook says "thank you". I forget what it was but there were differences between the two.

Xbox got better graphics each time when there was a multiplat.

[TheRacingX]

@insomnium2 & mister dawg

Mister Dawg is right in a way, games that were just ported over to Xbox were not superior in any way, and sometimes played and looked worse on Xbox, same for gamecube actually which was more powerful than PS2 and even then Xbox in certain areas, but thats another story. The thing was 1st party Xbox games were superior graphics wise to PS2 games because they were designed on that platform and maximized not ported. Of course Halo, Mechassault, Blinx, Brute Force, DOA3, looked better they built ground up on a more advanced/powerful system. The Splinter Cells and Ghost Recons were built on the Xbox system 1st, then they dumbed them down to squeeze them on PS2. EA tried to get Oddworld Strangers wrath to run on PS2 and the original dev team couldnt do it, and SONY was pissed, thats where some of the EA/Sony fallout started happening, Sony felt they werent trying hard enough to make it work....

[dethpuck]

If all you care about is pure power I guess. Games are so much more then that. Ps4 is more powerful than Xbox. We get it. Who cares I'm getting both. Don't want to miss exclusives on either console

[MRMagoo123]

but you have to agree , with a more powerful system you can make a better game, there are less limits to worry about so they can make the game closer to what they want.

[tagan8tr]

Save you a long scroll..

GameCentral: So, just finally, I have to ask: why does the PlayStation 4 version look so much better than the Xbox One? Is the resolution really the only difference?

Mark Rubin: [laughs] Yep, it’s the only difference. The TVs are different on some of them, but… they both have their different rendering engines but they’re as close as possible. It really comes down to resolution. Xbox is upscaled 720, it’s outputting at 1080p but it’s upscaled from 720. Whereas PlayStation 4 is native 1080p. So that’s really the only graphical difference. But it is enough. Some people here are saying they don’t really notice a difference…

[LordMaim]

You left out the best part:

GC: So the obvious assumption from all this is that the PlayStation 4 is definitely more powerful than the Xbox One, is that true?

MR: [acting very embarrassed] I can’t answer that.

GC: You can’t answer it on a technical level or because you’re being diplomatic?

MR: Can’t answer that.

GC: You can’t say whether you’re avoiding the question for diplomatic reasons?

MR: [embarrassed] I just can’t say anything…

[Even the attending PR guy is looking embarrassed by this point]

PR guy: It’s very hard for us to be…

GC: Are the console manufacturers leaning on you to avoid these sort of questions?

MR: [unsure - speaking to PR guy] I don’t know if that…

MR: [even more embarrassed to us] Yeah, there’s things that we… We sign NDAs with the first parties [i.e. Microsoft and Sony - GC] and there are things that we’re not allowed to talk about.

GC: So when John Carmack and Shinji Mikami say the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 are almost identical, is that something you could agree with?

MR: Hmm… I would say that’s a bit inaccurate but I wouldn’t be able to tell you any detail of why that’s inaccurate.

GC: For diplomatic reasons?

MR: Yes.

[fenome]

Here's a little bit more:

MR: No, it’s… well, you can do almost anything, almost. Tessellation can’t be done on current gen for the most part, because it’s a DirectX 11 feature, but we could still do it but you’d get a frame rate of 2. So that really becomes the reason we do everything: the reason the Xbox One is 720, the reason the PlayStation 4 is 1080 is we’re trying to make the game look as good as it possible can and making sure we maintain our 60 frames per second.

GC: Do you think everyone else will have these same problems? All these other cross-generational games that are out at launch?

MR: Well, I think they’ve already said they are haven’t they? Battlefield 4 is 720 on Xbox One and I think 900 on PS4? Titanfall has said they’re 720… So we’re not the first to say we’re 720 on the Xbox One.

[Xsilver]

The PS4 is more Powerful than the Xone http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[MorePowerOfGreen]

Mark Rubin crying over MSFT and EA/Dice partnership. COD and its outdated engine and gameplay with PS4 issues with framerate and he says Carmack and other are wrong? Sounds like Rubin and Sony tried to stick it to MSFT using 1080p hype. Sounds like Sony said make 1080p on PS4 at all costs(sacrificed frame rate) and Rubin and pals said we will do this, we are made at MSFT anyways.

[Pintheshadows]

You sound like a trailer dwelling conspiracy theorist.

[ziggurcat]

sounds like you're butthurt over the fact that a dev working on a prominent title outright admits that PS4 is more powerful.

and when the devs at EA/DICE admit the same thing, what's your weak excuse going to be then?

how did they sacrifice frame rate on PS4 when it runs at 60 fps? especially when the same frame rate "issues" also occur on the xbone version, and have absolutely nothing to do with the console's hardware?

quit grasping at straws, and go back to misterx blog where you belong.

edit: also, if it's the engine that's the problem then PS4 wouldn't have been able to do native 1080p @ 60fps, so....

[mkis007]

frame rate will have the same problems on xbox1, but don't worry both will be fixed by the day 1 patch.

[DoesUs]

My god! Get over yourself POG! Face the undeniable facts that the PS4 is simply much more powerful, and for $100 cheaper. 8 yrs later you are still pushing your MS driven agenda. Reported for trolling.

[MysticStrummer]

The game has frame rate problems on PS4, XB1, and PC. This was said before reviews even started coming out. For some reason, XB1 reviews aren't allowed yet. I wonder why that is…?

Actually, I know why and so do you.

[cleft5]

Just wow, this really makes me glad I am getting the PS4.

[C0LLAT]

GC: So when John Carmack and Shinji Mikami say the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 are almost identical, is that something you could agree with?

MR: Hmm… I would say that’s a bit inaccurate but I wouldn’t be able to tell you any detail of why that’s inaccurate.

GC: For diplomatic reasons?

MR: Yes.

GC: Okay, that’s fine. I think we can all read between those lines. But that’s absurd, how can they not except any journalist, any reasonable journalist, not to ask that question? It’s what everyone wants to know.

MR: [still feeling very awkward] The key thing is we try to focus people away from that sort of thing and try to focus them on the fact that the game is fun no matter what platform it’s on.

This explains everything.

[insomnium2]

By the gods....RELEASE THE KRAKEN!

Seriously this is effed up stuff. PS4 all the way!

[kingduqc]

I like how console guys get all tech savvy the money we start talking about new hardware,

Fact is 30-40% isn't as meaningful as you guys make it sound. the difference from running 30 and 40 fps or about 10-14 months on the gpu Side.

In 4-5 year, the difference will start to shine.. But those consoles will already be obsolete by it's time standard making it really nothing worth mentioning. Glad to see first few real 1080p games on console but the fast is that it won't stay that way and 1080p was a standard 6 years ago.

[bjmartynhak]

It makes me wonder what PS4 would be with the price set at $500. Specially with AMD, $100 more can give a good jump.

Seeing BF4 already at 900p is not that promising.
But hey, one is $400 @900p, the other is $500 @720p. I think it is a no-brainer considering performance.

OT: Tough interview! We need more of these guys.

[schubacca]

@allformats: The fact that Ghosts stutters on the "better" console indicates that the problem MAY be more with the dev than the console....

[Picnic]

Some early PS3 games had less than 720p resolution I believe. They were practically souped up PS2 games.

Whilst the Xbox One might never become in a position to have the top graphical fidelity of PS4 games, it's a bit like saying that Picasso was rubbish at landscapes. Each has its own niche of exclusives.
Xbox has always done the quick fix games very well, like Killer Instinct. Sony is less good at that.

Due to the tidal wave of positivity towards the PS4 (much of its deserved , partly thanks to how the later years of the PS3 turned things around), I've no doubt that the PS4 is more likely to sell more than the Xbox One, perhaps by up to a third.
But for those who do buy an Xbox One, I'm sure it's going to have a lot more to recommend it, including even some indie games, than just what type of resolution it has.

But showing off Xbox One games through a PC is a bad move.

[JsonHenry]

What the guy wasn't allowed to say was a lot more telling than what he did say.

I can't believe that after how much I loved my 360 and only used my PS3 for exclusives that there is such a huge turn around and my PS4 will pretty much be main console this time around.

One thing I wish he had asked was what the network disparity was like between the two. MS is supposedly going to have some crazy boost in their network speeds and server capacity and going all in on dedicated servers. I would like to know if Sony has an answer for that or if that is all just PR smoke and mirrors on MS's part.

I also would love to hear him explain why he can't do tessellation. My old HD5870 did just fine using tessellation. There is no reason that the xbox1 can't do it because it is a DX11 machine with DX11 support directly from MS's own API. Obviously Sony doesn't have this ability because of licensing issues but tessellation, even at a lower resolution on the X1, would make a very noticeable graphical difference in games. And yes there is a hit to the GPU when doing tessellation but judging from my old HD5870 just throwing some of that on a few objects in the game really makes a visual difference. Not everything has to be tessellation.

[Persistantthug]

@JsonHenry,
tessellation is not exclusive to Direct X.

PS4 will be able to do tessellation as well.

[JsonHenry]

I know it isn't but the DX API helps make tessellation more efficient than it currently is on other platforms. Meaning it is already built in and the hardware makers (AMD/Nvidia) have hardware acceleration built into their hardware specifically for DX/Tessellation.

This is what I meant when I said there is no reason the Xbox1 should not have it even if it is only used on a few object at a time just because of how much better tessellation can make things look. - http://www.evga.com/article...

[Persistantthug]

AMD and NVIDIA are also compatible with OPEN GL/CL. Direct X isn't the only API available for tesselation an other features.

For that matter, consoles dont need APIs at all. Performance wise, It's actually better if they don't, and/or program as close to the metal as possible.

[Persistantthug]

I don't think Carmack has really liked any of the Playstations.

[yeahokchief]

It's important to note that the Activision employee is biased.

Titanfall made by the former makers of Call of Duty is now XBONE EXCLUSIVE. Of course Activision wants more players to own a PS4 over an Xbox1, but they'll go multiplatform on all of them to rake in the sales.

Total Biscuit was mocking the graphics on a PC with Titan graphic cards saying the 50gb install and ram requirements were ridiculous for how dated the game looked so I don't see what the fuss is all about.

But hell yeah the PS4 is going to kick the Xbone's butt in performance. Consoles are more about exclusives anyways. I dont think the parity will ever get too out of hand.

I'm not buying either. Too many much better Ps3 and WiiU games in the near future. Aside from Killzone (which im not crazy about) there are no real big first party games to get me excited. All the launch games are the yearly games we complain about coming out too much with a different paint job.

Rockstar's GTA V was more innovative than anything you will see at launch on PS4 or XB1.

[GarrusVakarian]

"He also mentioned that he doesn't know if the power gap will ever close."

If its open this much at the start of the gen, its only going to get bigger especially in terms of 1st party exclusives (the devs that get the most of out each of their respective consoles).

[MRMagoo123]

It will def only get bigger, look into the gpu compute and the things they will be doing in the next couple years, the xbone will drag behind because of the ESram at that point because it wont be big enough to move all the info the devs will need to chuck at it.

[schubacca]

I like how you forget that this is a first wave game.... They said the same crap about ESRAM with the 360....

[pyramidshead]

Lol if this isn't confirmation that PS4 is the stronger console then I don't know what is. haha.

I feel some people will still hope for secret sauce even when there is an official statement stating so.

Then it will come back down to the goalpost moving acceptance of "it's about the games in the end"

[pedrof93]

Maybe they have said it comparing PS4/X1 to Ultra High end computers or such.

[Steven21]

I highly doubt that