ID@Xbox 'Might Just Be A Reaction To' Microsoft's PR disasters &'Not A Genuine Change of Stance':Dev

'In Microsoft I just can't see the passion for indies you get from guys like Sony's Shahid Ahmed (and even Shuhei Yoshida!).'

[xHeavYx]

It's pretty clear that the ID@Xbox is just a reaction to Sony's policies towards Indie developers, but hey, now everybody (who likes Indies) wins.

From the article:
“I think it’s the open attitude of the guys at Sony that really helped make that decision – they are just so much more approachable. Over the last year or so we’ve been able to build a great relationship with Sony, whereas Microsoft’s XBLA policy of requiring a publisher with release slots burned us in the past and in Microsoft I just can’t see the passion for indies you get from guys like Sony’s Shahid Ahmed (and even Shuhei Yoshida!)"

[Thehyph]

ID@stevehyphen reads:
Step 1) Put your indie game on Vita
Step 2) Take my money

These guys are working on step 1, and I will deliver on step 2.

Note: I said Vita because it's my preferred way to play indies.

[Infamous298]

I noticed that alot of the indies went to sony,I can't really blame them since they had bad experiences with microsoft.

[nukeitall]

You mean like how Sony had a program where anyone with a $100 could publish their game on a console, with free tools and developer support?

Oh wait, that was MS with XNA and Indie Channel.

Sony wanted to charge you thousands of dollars for a dev kit, and it had to be approved by Sony before you got your PS3 dev kit!

Fast forward, PS4, nothing has changed! Same old requirements.

Fast forward, Xbox One, nothing has changed it seems!

It means, as a real indie developer, I or anyone can publish on Xbox, but not on PS. Not everyone is Jonhatan Blow or Phil Fish.

@sincity below:

This is common knowledge, but this was discussed as way back as 2006, at the cusp of when PS3 was released:

"Anyone can freely download the toolset, available in beta form on August 30 and full form by the end of the year. The toolset comes in two flavors: the entry-level XNA Game Studio Express and the advanced XNA Game Studio Professional. Developing games using Express and releasing them on the PC will be free, but those who want their games available for download on the Xbox 360 must pay $99 a year as part of Microsoft's Creators Club."

source: http://www.gamespot.com/art...

You know what was even better, for students it was free!

[sincitysir1]

Links or it's not true

[Infamous298]

@nukeitall Microsoft are money grabbing whores who treat their customrs as well as developers like shit.

Tell me why recent indie games are PC/PS4/WII U only?

[Loki86]

@Infamous - That sounds like a totally unbiased and genuine statement /sarcasm.

EDIT: I'm sorry but this statement: "Microsoft are money grabbing whores who treat their customrs as well as developers like shit." Has absolutely no business on here and actually gets agreed with, Sony trolls at their finest.

[xHeavYx]

@Nukeitall
Will you please tell me why most Indie devs favor Sony then?

[Gamingcapacity]

@Nuke
A simple Google search highlights a lot of problems as an indie developer on Xbox. http://www.gamasutra.com/bl...

Not checked anything on PlayStation but knew there was more to developing on xbox than "it's super cheap to develop for".

Quote from link - "For people that may not be familiar with the game industry, getting a “real” game on the Xbox is a horrendous and monumentally expensive undertaking; one that isn’t really feasibly for an Indie developer. There are publishers involved, a lot of money, middle men and approval processes. So right away you see a problem. If you could just put game up on the Xbox for the $100 a year subscription fee, why would anyone ever NOT use that method to getting there game up there?"

[GodGinrai]

"Will you please tell me why most Indie devs favor Sony then?"

did they favour sony?...or did they just go with the rebound guy because the relationship went sour in their first choice. Jonathan blow..phil fish..both published their games first on the X360. Most indies usually sound like an Ex girlfreind after doing business with MS..but they CHOSE MS first for whatever reason over sony in the first place..what reason do you think that could have been?

[iceman06]

Realistically, not many devs complained about difficulty of getting on XBL. The real issue was promotion and reward. Many people on this site have said over and over how there was a sea of "crappy wannabe's" on the Indie Channel. How does an indie game, with promise, get discovered in that sea? What do they get in return? THIS was the issue that most of the devs that complained had. It's really about a different approach. Sony sought out certain indie devs or certain games that they thought would fit their game portfolio. Then, they promoted them...even showcased them at E3. MS has allowed indies, and promoted some. But, at least it seems, the old program in general was less than beneficial for them.
I won't speculate on the altruism of the new program. I guess the devs will speak for that.

[malokevi]

ZOMG Xbox indie program is reactive? gasp!

Wait a minute... why do I care again?

Never mind. Moving along.

[stuna1]

Why are you even here? Gasp!

Wait a minute.... Why do you care?

Never mind. Moving along.

[malokevi]

I'm just here to make snarky comments at your expense... I thought it was obvious?

[Mystogan]

No its not a reaction to Sony. They said they had this planned way before the PR disaster. Do you really think this thing just came up over night? There's lots of shit that needs to happen to get every Xbox One to work as a devkit. They clearly had this planned all along.

[SkippyPaccino]

That feature won't see the light of day till probably next Christmas... Phil Harrison was king of empty promises when he worked at Sony... Those features are probably still on the drawing board as we speak.

[xHeavYx]

@ Mystogan
You are partially correct, MS still planned on not allowing Indies to self publish, then they did (yet another) 180
http://www.gamespot.com/art...

[Brix90]

I don't know bro they did a 180 over night so I wouldn't be surprised...

[CynicalKelly]

ID@Xbox has been in the works for two years, Sony's policy has been known for 5 months..

Sony's policies are certainly encouraging Microsoft to put more of a focus on it but I think saying it's a direct reaction is like saying Trophies are directly because of 360.

[xHeavYx]

Like I said before, MS wasn't even going to allow Self Publishing
http://www.gamespot.com/art...

[etownone]

I still don't see the big fuss with Indie games.

Xbox 360 has indie games.... I think I checked them out once... Downloaded a couple. And never tried them again.
Not into Indie games... Never will be.

[sincitysir1]

Oh man ur loss!! I think indies are the Mac and cheese to my baby back ribs. They aren't necessary but they Are god d**n delicous'nn I love me some indies.

[WeAreLegion]

Freakin' hungry over here, man! We should do lunch.

[LoveOfTheGame]

I don't really agree with your stance on indies, but....God Damn you know how to sell me on some Ribs and Mac and Cheese.

[Blastoise]

There are great indies out there, hotline Miami, Journey, Unfinished Swan, Minecraft, Amnesia

And with games like Rime, The Witness and SOMA they're only getting bigger and better.

You just got to know where to look, there's a game called hyper light drifter which looks pretty good too

[-Foxtrot]

The big fuss is because if an Indie dev create something amazing with an indie game then it gives hope that the Indie studio will develop over the years into a bigger games company and could make the next big AAA game.

Your paving the way to let more creativity into the industry so it's not all about guns and big explosions

I don't play much on them to be honest, if I had to choose between an indie game or a big game coming up like Killzone Shadow Fall I would got with the latter but still, I can appreciate what they do and how they do it

[WeAreLegion]

I couldn't have said it any better.

[MasterCornholio]

Your attitude is quite normal for an Xbox user because they usually reject indies. This is the reason why Sony invests in indies because they know that PlayStation users appreciate the games they create instead of shunning them like Xbox users do.

P.S Some Xbox fans love indies but they are a minority compared to the ones that hate them.

Nexus 7 2013

[Legacy212]

Braid, super meat boy, dust, limbo, dishwasher etc are all on my xbox hard drive and I love em. Dont think you can say a majority of xbox users hate indies these games did sell well

[MasterCornholio]

@Legacy212

Well I just made my comment based on what many people are saying about indie games and usually its the PlayStation fans who praise them and the Xbox fans who despise them. But maybe only ones who hate them are being vocal about it which is why I could have made a mistake with my assumption. Indie games are fantastic in my opinion and everyone shouldn't shun them for not being AAA games.

If you like Braid your going to love the Witness which looks fantastic in my opinion. I always liked Blows games.

P.S etowone isn't doing your fan base any favors.

Nexus 7 2013

[GodGinrai]

"Your attitude is quite normal for an Xbox user because they usually reject indies."

Come again?...I have 134 arcade games..most of them are indie...Stop pulling BS out your ass and making assumptions about what people play on Xbox based on your own perceptions. curios..how many do you own on your PS3?

"Well I just made my comment based on what many people are saying about indie games and usually its the PlayStation fans who praise them and the Xbox fans who despise them."

only on N4G do I hear shit like this..

*rolls eyes* guess I should stop playing mark of the ninja, deadlight and Trine 2 and get back to COD/madden, right?

The ignorance...

[Mystogan]

I agree. Even with Microsoft's new indie policies, which are clearly better than Sony's. I really don't care much about Indies. 80% of indie games are total crap. Minecraft,splosion man ,journey and such are exceptions.

[TristanPR77]

The actual reality proves you wrong. Why then most of indies jumped to Sony if Microsoft policies are clearly better than Sony as you say?

Try to do some research before posting something emotionally because it makes you look very bad.

[Brix90]

@Mystogan

If what your saying is true then why don't Indies feel different about it. All I'm saying I think there's more too it on the business side than with both companies then we see.

[DigitalRaptor]

So... what you are trying to push as a fact here is that "80% of indie games are total crap", to support you opinion that you "don't care much about indies".

Now, I'll cover this again cause you didn't quite learn the first time. If you can somehow show me where that "80% of indie games" statistic came from, I'll give you a cookie and a pat on the head. After all it's such a precise measure to offer up. I mean, you'd have to have played 80% of all indie games to know such a thing.

So prove to me Mystogan, prove to yourself, that you're not just calling indie games crap because you want them to be crap because it doesn't support the path you're heading along.

[etownone]

How many Indie games are there on the 360?

And how many were actually any good? The most 5

There are a few, that get my attention once I start to hear about them.... And that's when I'll download it and try it out. But not wasting my precious time trying out all those half asss games when I could be playing Bioshock, Cod or Halo for example.

Btw... Walking Dead and Limbo were great.

[GodGinrai]

@etownone

I take it you dont try out many games on XBLA, then..

[KwietStorm_BLM]

That's like saying you're not into so called AAA games, or you don't play multiplatform games, which some smug gamers actually stand by. A good game is a good game. You can't just throw a blanket over a whole category. Indie is not a genre. It just means a smaller studio without a big publisher looking over their shoulder, and there is a multitude of great indie games out there on both PC and on console. I bet you've played good indie games and didn't even know it.

[iceman06]

So...umm...Titanfall is not your kind of game?? You know that Respawn is an independent developer right? I'm not trying to be an a$$hole here. I am simply pointing out that not all indies are created with low budgets, mediocre graphics, and small teams. Every developer has to have a start. If you are into music. Think of it as discovering a great local band or artist before they hit the big time. Though, I must admit, most of the music (imo) gets worse when the industry gets their greedy little hands on artists. But, you kind of get the point.

[jackanderson1985]

Doubt it. How could they have had the programme all set to go less than 2 months after E3. MS always took the stance that the indie programme they had planned for the Xbox one would be out at gamescom and that's what they did. Does it look like a reaction to Sony yeah no doubt. Is it a reaction to Sony I personally doubt it but hey that's just me and I may well be wrong

[bessy67]

Translation:

"MS doesn't pay us indies like Sony does, so they obviously aren't as passionate. Did I say that right Adam Boyes? Can I get my Pub Fund money now?"

[sincitysir1]

Why does any thing good said about any company automatically mean they're being paid? Opinions are like assH*les everyone's got one and they stink

[bessy67]

The Pub Fund is a very real thing. Sony pays indies in exchange for timed exclusivity on their games.

[Naga]

This just in: An indie developer who is only developing for PS4 and Vita says that he likes Sony more.

Stop. The effing. Press.

[sincitysir1]

This just in!

A real smarta$$. Seems like no one can say anything about anyone these days.

Hey onagao u are handsome. Omfg I midst be getting money from u to say such a thing.

[Naga]

I don't even understand what you just wrote, but I think you were trying to insult me. Let me go ahead and just help you out by explaining what you clearly didn't understand from the sarcastic implications of my comment:

This story isn't news. This story is merely the speculation of a single independent developer who has already hedged his bets on Sony. Nothing more.

Since this story presents nothing actually *new*, it is not actually newsworthy. Rather, the only purpose this piece serves is to perpetuate the ongoing negative attitudes toward Microsoft; it is just fanboy bait.

[MightyNoX]

Thank god for Indies. Has anyone seen Hyper Light Drifter?

[Nocando]

Uh, no. I think that answer speaks volumes.

[DigitalRaptor]

Nope... what that says, is that you haven't heard of a game that you weren't ever going to play because you only care about games that are well-known, or dare I say it.. AAA.

What speaks volumes is that a game that had a target of $27,000 for its funding received over $645,000 from thousands upon thousands of fans and true gamers who support new and creative ideas. And Hyper Light Drifter is just one of many projects that have been Kickstarted by gamers who care about diversity, creativity, and passionate, honest-to-goodness game devs in this industry.

http://www.kickstarter.com/...

If you took a survey of gamers - I wonder how many would've heard of Viewtiful Joe, or Killer7, or Shenmue, or Skies of Arcadia. I could bargain that the overwhelming majority would say they have never heard of those games. You made a non-point. AAA or not, games are games.

[yarbie1000]

This developer is an idiot. You can't make changes like - making every Xbox a Dev Kit - giving full access to cloud, dedicated servers etc - all within the span of a few weeks because of a PR move. This stuff has been talked about for months leading up to the reveal.

[GodGinrai]

Its MS...aint you heard? EVERYTHING they do is PR stunt apparently...

[Hicken]

Well, since none of that has actually happened yet, your point is rather invalidated.

What they actually did was ANNOUNCE these things, but none of it is ready, and won't be until sometime after launch(no window was given).

So, in reality, they've only talked about what they're going to do.

... does nobody think it's weird that Microsoft waited until they got all this bad press- and Sony got lots of good press- on the indie issue before they said anything? Does that strike you as the sort of timing you'd wait for if you already had those things planned out?

[phantomexe]

I love indies. i purchased over 85 indie games on the ps3 and just 5 on xbox live. You can't say indies don't matter because i know first hand i'm not alone in how many i play and buy. Don't get me wrong i love bigger games as well but indies are doing what the big boys can't risk doing.

[christocolus]

im not really into indie games but i want these guys to be sucessful so i sure hope the thousands of indies who have already signed up for the programme get their games up and running soon.....i know a lot of guys who love indie titles and those who cant wait to start using their xbx ones as dev kits..

[TristanPR77]

Sony have more diversity when it come to games than Microsoft, that is why you can see games like Heavy Rain, Flower, Journey and others on PlayStation. Microsoft is more about shooters games, they don't care about artist talents and indies.

[Cueil]

yeah that must be why games like Braid and State of Decay where massive hits on Xbox first or Castle Crasher... Super Meatboy... the list is not small of indies who have made it big on Xbox

[Cueil]

it may be because most indies are not important...

[xxxGEOxxx]

I find indies amusing because we spend all this money to buy these brand new machines...just to play 2D side scrollers, 8bit RPG's, and other games that looked capable on SNES/Genesis. Not knocking indies, as I've enjoyed a few, but I find it funny.

But what would I know...?

[user6697483]

It's Microsoft's way of saying we need more money.