This Is Why PS4 Controllers Have Symmetrical Analogs

Recent PlayStation 4 developments from the 2013 Tokyo Game Show seem to be reinforcing Sony’s belief that regardless of the competition, they still have the strongest controller on, or coming to the market.

[MultiConsoleGamer]

"The Xbox style of controller – with offset analog sticks – is the more favorable style among gamers and eSports enthusiasts, Sony believes the contrary..."

It doesn't matter what Sony believes. Controllers with the left stick in the forward position are superior and are favored by pro gamers for a reason.

The original playstation controller had no analog sticks. When Nintendo revealed the N64 controller and rumble pack, Sony quickly followed suit and added two analog sticks to their existing controller, placing them wherever they would fit on the current design. No thought was given to ergonomics or precision. Everything Sony is saying here is pure spin. It even boarders on damage control. Even the use of the word "symmetrical" is nothing more than a ploy. Its a buzz word for stupid people.

EDIT: There are several "360 style" 3rd party controllers for PS3 and no "dual shock style" controllers for 360.

Also: Saturn 3D, Dreamcast, GCN, WaveBird, Xbox Duke, Xbox Controller S, Xbox 360, Wii U pro controller, Ouya, and literally dozens 3rd party and PC controllers all have their left sticks in the proper, ergonomic forward position. And with good reason.

[godofboobees]

Pro gamers LOL!!!!

[minimur12]

Thing is with the controllers, if you put your hands out infront of you, your thumbs are in line.

When you type, your left thumb isn't on Q while your right thumb stays on M

No, they're in line, like a playstation controller :)

EDIT:
When I type anyway, I haen't seen how an xbox person types...

[Kleptic]

^exactly...

Multiconsolegamer...you act as if MS put some extra amount of thought into theirs?...the xbox controller is what it is because every innovative input patent has been wrapped up before MS even showed up to the game...

and if you're really talking about 'competitive gamers' or whatever...guaranteed they don't prefer either controller anyway...the mouse and keyboard has had that lock and key for 20+ years...

[darthv72]

The controller layout is generally done to put the dominant directional control on top with a sub interface below.

Sony started out with just the dpad and it wasnt until the analog craze that they came out with the twin stick design. The majority of the games at the time were dpad based which is why they kept the dpad where it was.

As more games started coming with twinstick support, sony considered swapping the dpad with the left analog stick but because they were so vested in the design they stuck to what worked for them and ultimately the dual shock became the standard controller.

all of this took place in the PS1 days and because of familiarity and existing design templates made it easy to just continue the mfg on to the next revision (DS2).

Some would say its comfort, others would say its cost (as in they didnt have to retool the PCB layout and molds) but the DS1, DS2 and DS3 are still tried and true sony designs that im glad they are keeping the same trend going for the DS4.

when your hands get used to a specific control layout, it just feels more natural when you pick up the successor and everything just fits.

[Reverent]

When I hold my hands out, my thumbs rest coincidentally in the same area that the analogs would be positioned on the dualshock. If the analogs were placed higher, there is a notable strain on my thumbs when reaching for them.

[shoddy]

I'm not too picky and I'm sure the xbox and ps4 controllers is just the matter of preference.
But AA batteries is so uncool.

[PoSTedUP]

i prefer symetrical like my body, thumbs, and brain. (thankful for that everyday).

the 360 controller is comfortable. but the DS3is just better quality in terms of technology and buttons (all pressure sensitive buttons), better Dpad, sixaxis, rechargeable etc. ps gamers shoot with R1, and need a pressure sensitive X button for the gas in Gran Turismo (other options are avaible but im sure the majority doesnt use a wheel). its just wha makes sense for what the console offers. just like the 360 controller being better for fps bc people like the triggers. i personally cant shoot with R2 it doesnt feel right.

[SilentNegotiator]

Symmetrical hands, symmetrical controls.
Whatta concept.

You fanboys are kidding yourselves with that "well the dominant control should go in front" garbage. Like the camera stick plays second banana these days.

[Gamingcapacity]

People prefer the 360 controller because of the triggers not because where the sticks are. It makes no difference to me where the sticks are and can switch between the controllers with no fuss. But the triggers on the 360 pad is what made is a good controller.

BTW the word "symmetrical" isn't used as a buzz word.

[quenomamen]

Xbone controller has same layout as 360, so pros preffered 360 ?
Why would pros then now choose the weaker console for next gen ?

[Bluepowerzz]

lol heres another stupid 100 inch tv stupid nob who takes the piss out of people who can actually play well as a esports player and sony fan for 15 years im discus ted at this comment from god of bobees and multiconsolexboxfanboy

[AlexanderNevermind]

@ Gaming Capacity,

By all accounts the PS4/DS4 triggers have been 'fixed'. So if the triggers are the root of the Xbox players bane with the DS3 then those who are coming over to the PS4 should have no worries. I personally can play both although I am better at shooters with the PS3 controller (For the record, it took me maybe a week to get comfortable with the 360 controller scheme).

Even PS3 players will a slight learning curve with the DS4 having to get used to L2/R2 for shooters. It shouldn't take long I'm sure.

[Boody-Bandit]

"Pro gamers LOL!!!!"

Yeah I bust out laughing every time someone uses that term as well. Grasping at straws to validate their opinion at it's finest. A gamer doesn't need terms like real or pro, but a gamer will adapt to what ever they must to enjoy their gaming to the fullest.

I adapted from a paddle controller (pong) and over the years to more traditional controllers like the NES, SNES, Genesis, etc to a mouse and keyboard, flight stick, fight stick, FFB wheel w/ stand alone 6+1 shifter and E-brake, back to newer stand alone traditional controllers. Yes people will have their preferences but if you want to game on one console over another you to will adapt.

With all that said I am looking forward to getting my grubby mitts on the DS4.

[Anarki]

Pro gamers do not prefer a controller. The only controller they'd prefer is the Arcade stick for fighting games. FPS, where the Xbox controller shines best is surpassed by the Mouse and Keyboard. The Dualshock is much better than the 360 for hack N slash games, like Devil May Cry.

[Dee_91]

"Even the use of the word "symmetrical" is nothing more than a ploy. Its a buzz word for stupid people. "
LMAO!!!
OMG
The analogs on the Playstation controller aren't symmetrical ?Then you go on to say "its a buzz word for stupid people."
YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT SYMETRICAL MEANS!
LMAO
oh man my stomach hurts.
What ever the hell a pro gamer is i'm like 99.99% sure they could adapt to any controller.I've been playing with different controllers for more than a decade and I can barely tell the difference now.I can pick up either one and control them like i've been playing with it all my life.

[ShinMaster]

Why do you care so much about the left stick?
Character movement is easy enough. PC gamers use the WASD keys for god's sake.
They boast about using a mouse because it's more precise for aiming. And aiming is done with the RIGHT STICK.

Both Xbox and PS controllers have the right stick on the same exact spot. Which means (surprise!) the Xbox controller no better than the PS controller.

[Gamingcapacity]

@Alex, you're right, the triggers are exactly the same as the trigger used on the Move navigation controller and it's perfect. No more finger slip on games where you have to hold the triggger down for and extended amount of time (usually driving).

The analogs have also been updated too, so my two biggest gripes have been fixed. Hopefully the d pad is like the Vita's and then we will have one heck of a controller.

[SixZeroFour]

heres what you guys dont get about the 360 controller, sure the analog/joysticks are off set, but it puts thumbs on where its comfortable for main inputs...the left on the thumbstick and the right for the buttons...the right thumbstick is secondary feature just for aim/look, but action for the right thumb is more focused

[AndrewLB]

Either you guys are completely blinded by your love for Sony or you're just plain clueless.

The asymmetrical design of the analog sticks is based on ergonomics and the typical use case. The left stick is at the neutral position for your left thumb, while the buttons on the right are at the neutral position for your right thumb. The vast majority of the time, you will be using the left stick and right buttons, so it makes sense that they are positioned for the most comfortable thumb position.

If you were to make the sticks symmetrical, you would have one of your thumbs out of a neutral position for the majority of the time, which is likely to increase fatigue and possibly cause cramping, or in worst case scenarios, carpel tunnel syndrome.

I'm not arguing that the xbox controller is necessarily better than the others, just that there is solid reasoning behind the design. Personally I prefer it, but many others disagree.

[Ezz2013]

@MultiConsoleGamer

by saying *Pro gamers* you meant *bro gamers*

right ?....RIGHT ?

[kickerz]

Both controllers are comfortable. Do we really need to argue about this (0_o)

[badz149]

I am used to Dualshock-inspired controllers since the PS1 era and it's kinda hard to just switch to the 360 type controller. it's about preferences and I prefer symmetrical sticks!

so, what are these symmetrical is better or asymmetrical is better, ergonomic stuff, pro gamers (LOL!) stuff? it's really just preferences.

I bought the 360 controller for Windows and no matter how I try, I can't grow into liking it as I game on my PS3 a lot too. so I sold it to a friend and now game using Logitech F710/F510 and xinput emulator and it suits me best!

you guys should do the same too. stick with what you prefer and stop trying to state your opinions as fact! it's ANNOYING!

[mistertwoturbo]

Honestly I can use either one comfortably.

[lastdual]

Sony should just make both. Give us a model with a swapped left-analog and d-pad. I'd buy it.

I realize some people love symmetrical sticks, and that's fine as well. Some people drive with their hands perfectly parallel on the wheel. I don't. The offset stick design is more comfortable for me, and having a choice would be nice.

Many forget that the current position of the analog sticks dates back to the Dual Shock 1, which was designed at a time when d-pad was still the main means of character movement. The sticks were placed lower because they were secondary to the d-pad.

Today it's the opposite. The analog sticks are now the main method of movement input. Having the option to buy a controller that reflects this would be nice.

[JimmyLmao]

I think the main complaints about the PS3 controller is not the symmetrical stick placement, but the size of the controller and it's triggers.

(which are both fixed on the DualShock 4)

of course symmetrical stick placement is perfectly fine, our hands are symmetrical, so we naturally liked the symmetrical stick placement.

it just makes sense. think of it like this.

why design a controller with symmetrical grips to hold, and then go and offset the sticks, it is designed to be held in a symmetrical way but you are forced to hold it in an awkward way... this is one of my main dislikes of the XB360 controller.

[memots]

I used the F-word and lost a bubble.
I guess i wont say how i feel about that first post lol.

Help a brother out and give me back my bubble ;)

Off topic again did you guys noticed that Catherine is 14.99 on PSN o_O
That's crazy , I might have to bite the bullet and pick it up.

[Kayant]

@MultiConsoleGamer

"Everything Sony is saying here is pure spin. It even boarders on damage control. Even the use of the word "symmetrical" is nothing more than a ploy. Its a buzz word for stupid people."

Yet in the IGN article there is no mention of Sony saying anything remotely the same. All your quotes are the writer's interpretation not Sony's words. Am not going to go back in history because I don't know that much but couldn't the reason they continue to use the same design be because they feel it works well?

As far as we know PS4 is now on the comfort levels of the X360 and maybe a bit better in most cases. That's the main problem with the PS3's for the majority of people. Now that's fixed it's all preference in what placement you prefer better.

[pixelsword]

I have to admit, at first I loved the xbox controller, but I would always overstretch my thumbs when I played; but now I realized that I liked the SIZE of the 360 controller but the ergonomic design of the PS controller.

If the PS4 has a larger controller, I'd pick that.

[insomnium2]

Like brutal mentioned any controller is fine. hell even Atari jaguar's controller is fine just give it 2 minutes.

Arguing about something this irrelevant is first world problems at it's finest.

[Kryptix]

lol Pro gamers...

If you're talking about tournament players:

Shooters: Keyboard + Mouse
Real Time Strategy: K+M
Battle Arena: K+M
Fighters: Dualshock or Arcade stick

The only time I seen the 360 controller used in tournaments is in 2 franchises only: Halo and Call of Duty.

Anyway though, a professional gamer is labeled by skill not what controller they use or prefer. Is the Starcraft champ not a professional player because he doesn't play with the 360 controller?

And the Dualshock is perfectly symmetrical posing no problem with where your thumbs lay. Answer me this; on the 360 controller, do you have a problem placing your right thumb on the right thumbstick? No...so it shouldn't bother you to mirror the same position with the left thumb on the left thumbstick. The real problem is the Dualshock controller size for some which has been fixed with the DS4. Funny thing is that no one was complaining till the 360 remote came into the picture. The Dualshock 1 layed the bluprint for how a controller should really be with having two analog sticks and Microsoft followed suit.

[Rhythmattic]

@ Darth

"sony considered swapping the dpad with the left analog stick"

Really ?

Link please.

[Gekko36]

@All

I was never a fan of the DS1 - 3, The Xbox 360 controller just seemed to fit, plus I'm left handed so prefer the layout. I suppose with this there is no right or wrong answer, either you like apples or you like beef.

Sony are known for their unwavering self belief. Nice to see the old Sony arrogance is still there :D

[k2d]

Haha, there you go. 300!

[SilentNegotiator]

darthv72 voted to well said by the community.
Agree(32) Disagree(62)

He's spewing fanboy BS about the movement control somehow superseding the camera stick and the community disagrees.

Can the community please have the community back?

[The_Con-Sept]

If you replace "pro" with "noob" his comment would make so much more sense.

I'm a pro gamer who chooses the PlayStation controller design for every game type. Pro gamers play ALL games. Pro gamers do not play only shooters. Only noobs with less pubes would ever make such a statement.

PlayStation made the right choice.

[Gaming101]

People seem to be deluded enough to think that what's best for your left hand isn't best for your right hand. Either your thumb is meant to be pointed in one direction or the other. You can't have it both ways. If your thumb was really meant to be pointed directly upwards (which is terrible for racing games), then it should be done with your right thumb as well, but Msoft hasn't done that with their controllers. Put your money where your mouth is and move the right buttons to where the right stick is if you really believe that's what your thumb is somehow supposed to do.

[Xsilver]

says you. DS4 http://global3.memecdn.com/... death the kid approves.

[Aceman18]

haha nice love that anime

[GrizzliS1987]

all im saying is, hold a brick with your two hands. if your thumbs are sticking forward, youre doing it wrong

[antbolton89]

Are you OK? because everything you have just said borders on insanity

[MysticStrummer]

Some of it does more than border. Some of it is being chased by insanity's border patrol as we speak.

[Rockefellow]

Regardless of your historical analysis or (essentially correct) statement that "professional" gamers prefer game pads with a differential analog position, "symmetrical" is not a buzzword by any means. It's a fact, plain and simple-- the sticks are, clearly, sitting directly next to one another, as you can see in the picture. What word would you use to describe that?

It's certainly not a "ploy," and you saying it's for stupid people to hear really makes you sound like a moron yourself. Sony may be hyping up their ergonomic design, as any company would, but for you to criticize that aspect of it and actually end your "argument" at that point is laughable.

[Metfanant]

for the record...idk about yours...but, my hands are symmetrical...my thumbs are in the same place on BOTH of my hands...

that being said i find that there is ZERO influence on my ability to play games based on the position of the analog sticks...but the symmetrical layout makes more sense from a purely physical standpoint...

any negatives to the SIXAXIS/DS3 are more with the overall design of the controller, NOT its stick placement...frankly i think most people who say non-symmetrical is best are simply xbox fanboys...

most reports from people have said the DS4 is the better of the bext gen controllers...we will see how many non-symetrical fans show their true colors as simply xbox fans this time around...

[Lovable]

dafuq? lol

[dumahim]

Owning both, I really don't care either way in regards to the position of the sticks. The symmetrical thing though, I don't get. Yes, your hands are symmetrical, but most games tend to use the left analog stick and face buttons the most. In order to keep your thumbs in the symmetrical position you prefer, that would follow the Xbox design instead of the PS design.

But again, it doesn't bother me either way.

[buynit]

Frankly you must be a playstation fanboy, see how that works...

[Metfanant]

@buynit

why? because i said the placement of the sticks makes no difference? lol

[Fez]

@dumahim
I would say most of the popular games right now (FPS, TPS) have you're thumbs on the left and right analog sticks over 90% of the time. In most 3D games you'll be controlling your player and camera positions.

I can't really comment on how good the staggered controllers are to use but it seems to me that people who say the left analog stick is better up there should also say the right analog stick is in the wrong position and should be up there too.

I like the sticks in the downward position cos it feels like you have more control over accuracy with your thumb there.

[FITgamer]

"Even the use of the word "symmetrical" is nothing more than a ploy. Its a buzz word for stupid people."

Do you not know what symmetrical means?

[Imalwaysright]

Forget about "symmetrical". I don't think he knows what the word "stupid" means. If he did he wouldn't write that comment.

[LOL_WUT]

Burn! ;)

[SmokeyMcBear]

errm, well, you can think symmetrical is for stupid people all you want, but it won't make it true. Although I do like the 360 controller, it does have its negatives. The foward position your hands are in on the controller, mean that the using the triggers is primary, and using the shoulder buttons is an unnatural motion upwards. The DS controllers have the R1/L1 as primarys with the secondary buttons as "triggers" putting emphasis on the trigger buttons makes using the DS controller a little unnatural as your hands are always "reaching" and then set back to natural position when using R1/L1 buttons. As far as the thumbsticks go, I feel that although the DS sticks are a little close together, that I they still should be symmetrical. The DPAD and buttons are in the relatively same, but symmetrical position on the controller, your hands are symmetrical, mirrors of eachother when being held. Thats why using every part of the DS controller is a lot easier than the 360, with the DPAD and shoulder buttons using unnatural movements.

[SilentGuard]

If the triggers on the DS weren't so poorly designed and hard to use they would be used as the primary buttons over R1/L1. The fact that the triggers aren't suitable in shooting games should point out one of the major faults of the DS.

[Hicken]

@SilentGuard: Then why were the not used in previous generation, when the triggers were better?

No, they're not used because it makes more sense to use L1/R1, as these are the buttons closest to your trigger fingers. It's inefficient and not at all ergonomic to use the triggers and then have to shift your finger back up to the L1/R1 position for other commands.

It's great that L2/R2 have been improved, but I think it's one of the stupidest things in gaming that games would use the triggers for shooting when they're not in the prime position FOR USING YOUR TRIGGER FINGERS. Simply put: you will NEVER be as fast swapping from R2 to R1 with one finger as you would be switching between the use of R1 and R2 with two fingers.

That argument is as played out as the ergonomic "superiority" of asymmetrical analog sticks.

[insomnium2]

@hicken

QFTBBQ!

[Rhythmattic]

I bought the trigger kit for the DS3 , made L2/R2 like my 360 controller...

Took them off straight away ... I have always preferred shooting and aiming with my index fingers, while flicking my middle fingers on the L2/R2 buttons for secondary functions......

And to he people that use their index finger to shoot using L2/R2 on any shooter (FPS or third person) its not an efficient way to play.

I personally hate L2/R2 for prime input. Just isnt natural.

Its Each to their own, so, don't tell me Im wrong.

[thehitman]

I think the xbox analogs are retarded and prefer the dualshock controllers hands down. In the end its all preference though no 1 controller is ever better than another just like how on PCs PRO GAMERS use many different types of keyboards and mouses. This is a silly argument and wouldnt want Sony to ever change the core dualshock design.

[IRetrouk]

Your thumbs are symmetrical though arent they? Honestly i can jump between the two types, both are comfortable to me and i wouldnt have minded either way, just cant wait to get the new controllers in my own hands.

[MrDead]

They added two analogue sticks because as it’s a good way to navigate a 3d environment and they have left the sticks symmetrical as it’s the best place to have them if you have and eclectic games collection.

[MysticStrummer]

I'll just copy my comment from that site...

Having used both, I think asymmetrical analog sticks are nothing but a marketing gimmick. The Xbox and 360 controllers always felt awkward to me, so I’m glad Sony is sticking with symmetrical analogs for my symmetrical human thumbs. The tips of the dual shock analogs and the triggers were the weaknesses, not the stick placement. It sounds like those things have been corrected, but I won’t know until I hold it in my own hands and play a game.

"Even the use of the word "symmetrical" is nothing more than a ploy. Its a buzz word for stupid people."

Time for you to dig out a dictionary and look up "symmetrical".

[LoveOfTheGame]

You people have to be stupid if you don't realize what he meant by saying Symmetrical is a buzzword.

Symmetrical is being used just as the Cloud is, they both represent real things but they are used constantly, in their respective arguments, by people who don't even understand why they are what they are. (More so on the cloud side).

Sony threw on their sticks, back around 98-99, as a secondary to the primary dpad which was used symmetrically with the 4 main input buttons, Square X Triangle Circle. Argue all you want about Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical, but the Xbox left stick is in the dominant spot symmetrical with the primary input buttons, just as Sony designed there main input movement for the left forward spot. This is a main reason 360 is terrible for fighting games; the D-pad is in a terrible place compared to the buttons for input.(Yes I know the D-pad itself also sucks)

If you want symmetry for the sticks, that's great, but don't just argue that they are better symmetrically when they are still in the wrong place. Both sticks in the dominant position would be the correct setting, Wii U style.

Edit: Clarification.

[-Foxtrot]

""The Xbox style of controller – with offset analog sticks – is the more favorable style among gamers and eSports enthusiasts, Sony believes the contrary..."

First of all this is BS...it's all about opinion at the end of the day but in MY opinion I think the DS is better, the Xbox 360 controller is only better with FPS and sports games.

With the DS controller it has a nice all rounder feel to it.

[thekhurg]

The current results (65% in favor of symmetrical sticks) of the poll on that website say otherwise.

Please tell us more oh champion of controller analog stick placement.

[darren_poolies]

Actually there are a lot of dualshock style controllers for the 360 and the preference on analogue stick placement is completely down to exactly that, preference. Are you really that ignorant?

[RedDeadLB]

You do realize that even most third party controllers follow Sony's blueprint? There's rarely a controller with X360 stick layouts. Even controllers mimicking X360 controller's shape have symmetrical sticks.

Also, if anyone actually believes one stick layout is better than the other, you're out of your freaking mind. The only thing that's different is the relative position of the dpad to the stick. That's it.

What's more important is the stick precision and shape. I like the X360 controller's concave analog stick shape, but the PS3's analog feels more precise.
It's a matter of personal preference, with what you've spent more time. It's nothing definite, it's extremely subjective. Hence, I call bullshit on your entire comment.

I'm still using 2 PS1 controllers on my PC. I could get the X360 controller, but for what? A stick in a different place? That's going to make everything better? Yeah, right.

[SilentGuard]

"You do realize that even most third party controllers follow Sony's blueprint? There's rarely a controller with X360 stick layouts. Even controllers mimicking X360 controller's shape have symmetrical sticks. "

Really? Come on now, no need to make stuff up.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

And yet, despite everything you just yammered on about, it works just fine, with the Dualshock 4 getting nothing but shining reviews. So now what? Is it really that big a deal?

[iamnsuperman]

The use of the third party example as a reason for why asymmetrical is better is flawed. The 360 had other benefits and, on a internet social level, it was conceived to be the better and more comfortable out of the two (nothing to do with where the sticks are placed). So third parties copied that to go with what was the general consensus. Again I must repeat this, it has nothing to do with stick position. It is just how the 3rd party accessories business works

[Volkama]

Wow, that's a lot of disagrees but what he said is not inaccurate. Even Sony tried to drop the dual shock shape (see ps3 boomerang)

For me the problem isn't so much symmetry, it's more that the position of the analogue sticks just isn't comfortable. The d-pad and buttons hold the prime positions, because that's the legacy of the controller.

I think ds4 puts proper consideration on the analogue sticks and may well be a huge improvement.

[MysticStrummer]

The boomerang analog placement was still symmetrical though.

[Volkama]

Indeed, but I think people attribute their preference to symmetry just because it's the most visual difference between the pads.

I think having the sticks in a natural and comfortable position is far more important, and the sticks have always played second fiddle on Sony's pads. I do not think that applies to the DS4 though, I think it's been designed around the sticks and I have high hopes.

The asymmetrical design may have a very slight comfort advantage for FPS games where the left thumb primarily moves up whereas the right thumb primary moves more laterally. That's just one genre, and a pretty tiny difference.

[Rageanitus]

The symetrical is more for style IMO, and sony has been known to sacrifice a bit just to make it look more even.

The Vita can be cumbersome at times but its very playable. The PS controllers could be a bit better if they were positioned the way xbox does it but its ALRIGHT because the size of the controller is JUST RIGHT.

[Bathyj]

Here is the real reason

http://t.qkme.me/3ulbf8.jpg

[blackbeld]

Hahaha that is funny man and so true by their logic. ;)

[okmrman]

its all a matter of preference
i prefer the xbox controller

simple

[Bathyj]

okmrman
And I dont dispute your preference.
My only problem is when people claim their opinion is fact but thats an issue that spreads across many topics here on N4G.

[PsylentKiller]

Two people have hands like that. Lol

[GinkgoID]

Well, personally, my hands are "symmetrical".

[nukeitall]

Do they serve symmetrical purpose?

Do you use your mouse with your left and your right?

Because your hands are symmetrical doesn't mean they are fit for that purpose. I think in the end both has it's merits.

More importantly what feels more comfortable for YOU?

Personally I don't want a controller that cramps my hands after 15 mins or have slippery triggers. That is very uncomfortable, but it looks like the DS4 might have resolved that.

[Imalwaysright]

If symmetry has a purpose? Why don't you ask yourself if you like being "symmetrical" or not? If not, you should start a petition directed at evolution to make us all asymmetrical.

[Pillsbury1]

I would like to see how many disagrees you get.

[nunley33]

over 300 and counting,all those agreeing must either be pro gamers or 3rd party accessory makers lol.

[SITH]

Yet not one person submitted evidence to dispute what multiconsolegamer said. The only way to get an PS3 style controller on the Xbox is mod one. But plenty xbox style controllers are available at retail for playstation consoles.

[OrangePowerz]

I could counter argue that there are plenty of DS style controllers for PC despite the fact that you can just plug in a 360 controller to use on PC and you know there are converters to use the DS on the Xbox.

Isn`t it a fact by now that 360 owners don`t like the DS anyway no matter how well designed it is because it`s from Sony?

[JackStraw]

nobody needs to dispute something that isn't fact lol. that's like me trying to dispute what your favorite color is after you give some long explanation as to why the color blue is somehow more superior than any other color for whatever reason you could muster up.

[OrangePowerz]

Blue? Are you crazy? Orange is much better :D

[Gamingcapacity]

@SITH What do you think do the Steam controller? Why do you think they went for a symmetrical controller?

[itBourne]

I cant shoot with r2 either, any ps4 game using r2 I will quickly change to r1 lol. All I know is my thumbs are in the same spot so I want my analogs in the same spot. Pro gamers prefer a mouse not an analog stick. Also that damn x button placement sucks on the 360 controller lol.

[abusador]

Doesn't matter what you say, wth are you to say something else is superior. Sony has won awards for that same controller design your trying to put down. Millions prefer the D's and symmetrical layout and no matter what you say changes that.

[christrules0041]

And the word cloud is for them Xbots who don't understand what a dedicated server does. Pro gamers perfer a mouse though. You can do 180s really quick and move really slowly for those far away shots. Mouse is way better then analog sticks.

[OrangePowerz]

First off all no damage control here it`s not an Xbone article.

Secondly Speak for yourself, I prefer a symmetrical setup and other people prefer the Xbox controller setup, it`s a personal preference.

You know why the Xbox controller has the sticks off set? Because they took the DreamCast controller and added a second stick and because of the layout the DC controller had there was only one place where they could place the second stick.

If you want to go down the route of what controller did what you should keep a few things in mind.

1. Saturn 3D and DC controller had only one stick so that`s not an argument for or against symmetrical setups. WiiU pro controller and WiiU GamePad are symmetrical as well as the new Valve controller.

2. Naming multiple versions of the same controller isn`t proof of anything. I could just say in that case DS1, DS2, DS3, DS4 and Vita all have them symmetrical with good reason according to your reasoning.

[SilentGuard]

I think you are missing the point. It's not so much if the sticks are symetrical or asymetrial, but where the stick placement is if its the primary mode of control. Dreamcast (and N64) may of had only one stick, but the placement of the stick was similar to Xbox controllers in placing them in a higher position whre your thumb rests naturally.

[KillrateOmega]

Thank you for that comment, I was in dire need of a good laugh XD

'... favored by pro gamers'? LOL. Mouse and keyboard. Look them up.

[Pogmathoin]

@killrate, those converters are for all those who claim they do not use Xbox.... They feel ashamed...

[JackStraw]

yet there are converters to use the ds3 on the 360...

[clouds5]

I agree, its just more comfortable to have the analog sticks higher up. I personally think the WiiU gamepad has the best analog sticks I ever used, perfect resistance (less than xbox360 imho), perfect grip, perfect position. <3
The PS3 controller is awful. My thumbs bump into each other (i have large thumbs) and my hands start to cramp when i play too long...

[Zhipp]

IMO, the pro controller's sticks don't have quite enough resistance, but besides that I was kinda surprised to find how natural the controller feels.

OT: I've had comfort issues with symmetrical sticks since I was a kid, but I guess my main issue wasn't with the symmetricity, but with the low placement of the sticks, which is why I, being a PC gamer originally, wasn't really able to appreciate Gamepads until the Gamecube. I've tried the DS2, DS3, and some third party controllers with symmetrical sticks, and I don't find any of them as comfortable as the GC, WiiU, and especially 360 gamepads. Actually, I find them to be so uncomfortable that I can't understand how anyone could actually prefer them to the asymmetrical or Wii U setup. Maybe my hands are just shaped weird. :\ I do have rather long thumbs...

I'm looking forward to testing out the DS4; maybe it'll be the sole exception, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

[strickers]

The Wii U pad is garbage. All compromise

[clouds5]

The WiiU pad is awesome. No compromises.

(please start to make some arguments or shut the f**** up)

[miDnIghtEr20C_SfF]

Love the disagrees you're getting. All of a sudden it's hot to say the PS3 controller wasn't that great because the new PS4 one is better it is said.. and yet here you are getting disagrees.

Analog sticks on a dualshock are meant for small childish hands. Or girls hands.

[jessupj]

That's funny because I'm 190 cm tall and played GTA V for 12 hours straight, yet never felt a single cramp or strain. GTFO.

[miDnIghtEr20C_SfF]

Who said anything about your hands cramping up? BTW get a life. Do you think it's cool to play a video game for 12 hours straight?

Big hands like mine have my thumbs hitting together with the analog sticks. I didn't say anything about hands cramping up. Your hands can cramp up on an Xbox controller. That all depends on your hands. You probably masturbate a lot... so your hands are able to game for 12 hours straight no problem. Good for you.

[r2oB]

The Nintendo 64 controller did not have an analog stick, it was a digital stick that offered near analog precision... But not analog. The rumble pack was an add on via the expansion port, where as the Dual shock had the rumble motors built in. They were released within 7 months of each other so chances are they have been in R&D around the same time... Only difference is that Sony had the foresight to have built in rumble, not an add on that required batteries.

So no, Sony did not follow suit, and no, this is not spin nor damage control.

[babadivad]

Why does he have so many disagrees[other than rampant fanboyism on this site]? He didn't say anything that wasn't true. The Only reason Sony kept it's design is to keep continuity with their older models. The Original design of the controller was designed in an era without analog controls in mind. Like he said the slapped it on an existing design the only place they had room on the controller. They can spin it anyway they want but that is the truth. I'm a huge Sony fan but the 360 controller just feels better for analog controls because it was designed for it from the beginning and didn't have to modify an existing D-pad focused design of the PS family of controllers.

[Pogmathoin]

@multiconsolegamer, I have to laugh at your ridiculous comment. Clearly Sony has in fact paid attention and got it right. They come on this site and see a lot of Sony gamers suffer from severe degenerative fanboyitus. Knowing they spend so much time typing crap, these poor people suffering cannot get their thumbs in the conventional one forward, one back controller setup. Pay more attention please.

[The Captain]

Actually not Sony.... Sony went to top FPS developers with 12 different mock controllers and they picked this one. Some had the offset sticks. Most people say the new controller is much better then the X1.

[TheSsus]

Basic anatomy > What "pro gamers" alledge.

[Eck0]

"pro gamers" dont complain which is superior... they adapt.. and play on all consoles..and/or pc

[snipab8t]

Lol at all the psfanboys disagreeing with you. This is fact, and is why there are hardly any pro-gaming tournaments played on playstation, other than for certain exclusives. Games like BF3 and COD will always be played with 360 controller or keyboard and mouse. FACT!

[The Captain]

You should use the word did.... Many developers now use DS4... this includes Dice....

http://www.ign.com/boards/t...

[joel_c17]

This pretty much sums up your comment multiconsolegamer
http://youtu.be/wKjxFJfcrcA

[titletownrelo]

Ergonomics, huh? Yes, because its soo difficult to have your thumbs in a symmetrical position, right? Challenging stuff man.

[JamieL]

No it's hard to have both your thumbs in an unnatural position the whole time. The d-pad is in the dominate position on the DS, do ya'll not get that. It's not because the sticks are not on the same lvl, it's the stick on the xbox controllers is where your thumb would naturally be. on the DS's both sticks are in the secondary position, why is this so hard to understand? When you hold a DS you thumbs will be closest to the buttons on the right and the d-pad on the left naturally, MS just put the dominate stick in the place your thumb naturally goes, how does this not make sense?

[windblowsagain]

LMFAO.

minimur12

That was so funny, was drinking tea ffs. Stop it!

[Pope_Kaz_Hirai_II]

I can use both controllers just fine doesnt matter to me i have an xbox pad for the pc as its easier driver wise and support.

[Jaqen_Hghar]

WiiU=symmetrical, PS4=symmetrical, One=Asymmetrical, Steam=symmetrical (touchpads). You tell a man who's the oddball this gen (the most refined in terms of controllers by being most recent).

[bromtown]

Some points:

Saturn 3D, Dreamcast only had one analogue stick (like the N64) so you can't say they offset the analogue sticks haha, they just happen to put it there. Also, the d-pad and face buttons on those controllers were a lot more level that the 360's analogue stick and face buttons, meaning the analogue stick was placed "where it would fit" on the controller and you'd still be able to reach it, so it went above the d-pad.

3 of that list are from Microsoft, obviously they're all going to have the same layout. The Wii U pro controller has symmetrical analogue sticks they're just above the face buttons and D-pad. And the Wii classic controller had the PS layout.

The Ouya controller is abismal, wherever the sticks are.

And a lot of design cues of the original Xbox controller are cribbed straight from the Sega's recently defunct Dreamcast controller, so as to be different from Sony.

Third party controllers do what they can to not infringe any copyrights, so shifting the stick is easy and useful to avoid lawsuits.

And pro gamers shouldn't be informing us of any trends. If you think competitive videogaming is a sport and a career you shouldn't ever offer advice.

And the new Steam controller has symmetrical control surfaces. So where's your reams of research on why asymmetrical is better?

[Dante81]

EDIT: There are several "360 style" 3rd party controllers for PS3 and no "dual shock style" controllers for 360.

Maybe that's because there are many 360 gamers that convert to PS3, and few that do the reverse. Just Maybe.

[JamieL]

LOL, wow that's reaching, because during this current gen there was a mass exodus from the PS2 to the 360, so that theory is flawed from the jump. This gen Sony lost market share, while MS more than doubled it, so how can your comment possibly hold water?

[Dante81]

I said maybe. What if PS2 gamers didn't need to learn to adapt? Also, 360 brought in a lot of new gamers, who then switched over to PS3 after a couple of years. Those guys are the ones complaining about the DS3(bu...bu...the triggers...an...an...the left stick)

[JamieL]

It's still a fanboy stretch argument, and is in no way even likely in any case, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

[KnaveX]

@Buzzword

I think symmetrical just means symmetrical.

[Demobot]

The main point there is is the DS design is so great then why hasn't anyone made a 3rd party controller for the 360. Yet there are numerous 360 style controllers for the PS3.

To me that ends the debate.

[teflontactics]

I laughed.

Anyone who says it's ergonomic to be asymmetrical has no idea what they're talking about.

[ShwankyShpanky]

*If* "pro-gamers" prefer the asymmetrical layout, it is for one reason... Xbox/360 was made on Halo. The first online console FPS that ever really took off (and was probably the most popular console FPS on the XboxOG). And everyone that wanted to play Halo had to get an Xbox/360. And thanks to the 360's year head start, it became established as the console FPS standard, and that basically translated to the CoD crowd. The DS3's triggers and convex sticks didn't help (and may have thrown the preference anyway if its sticks were the same as the 360's), and I don't know why MS chose the asymmetrical layout, but it was only due to the Xbox/360's console FPS dominance that it became so popular. Just another clever result of the 360's head start. (and hey, that $200xX some paid for RRoD replacements was worth it, right?)

The convex triggers and sticks are my main gripe with the DS3, and both of those have been solved, thankfully.

And as has been said, I think the real "pro gamers" prefer a mouse and keyboard. They simply can't be beat for precision and versatility.

"The controller layout is generally done to put the dominant directional control on top with a sub interface below."

This makes no sense... which do you use more in an FPS, face buttons or the right stick?

[Drekken]

As of now... 292 disagrees to your 50 agrees. I think that says it all.

I have used both controllers and I prefer the dualshock analog positions.

[tarbis]

You should do your research more. You make me laugh. The left thumbstick from the first xbox to the current and xbone controller is nothing more of a copy from Sega Saturn's Night analog controller which came out in 1996. I bought my Nights game bundled with this controller. The first xbox that came out in 2001 copied this design along with the right thumbstick which is similar to the first dualshock design. Who do you think copied who?

[miyamoto]

Sega Saturn 3D introduced the forward or upper analog stick that carried on to the Sega Dreamcast.

M$ just copied that whole layout.

[Sideras]

A good reason? Can't you just explain what makes it better?

[SilentGuard]

Exactly, the Dualshock thumbstick layout is an archaic design going back to when the thumbsticks were put on as an afterthought. If Sony's thumbstick is placed in a more natural position than why didn't they put the d-pad there on the original PS1 controller? The fact that every other console with analogs doesn't use Sony's layout says a lot.

Like most normal people if I lay my hand down on a table in a relaxed state my thumb will face up and not off to a 90 degree angle from my hand. The Xbox controller allows your left thumb to be placed on the analog stick; which is used primarily over the d-pad since 3d gaming became the norm; in a more natural relaxed position. It seems from pictures though the DS4 reduces the angle of the thumb relative to the hand due to the longer and less angled handles. This should reduce, at least from my experience with the DS3, the uncomfortable and straining left thumb placement.

The right thumbstick is a different story as it isn't used quite as much as the left one since it most often controls camera, not movement. Since we tend to use buttons quite a bit in games it makes sense to put the buttons in the dominant position on the right side.

The Xbox layout wins the symetical argument anyway in terms of use. Most of the time your left thumb will be on the stick and the right thumb on the buttons. This means when using the controller both your thumbs are facing up in the same "symetrical" position. DS layout requires playing with your thumbs offset.

[lilbrat23]

@ MultiConsoleGamer

Dude really shut up, I prefer the PS3 controller and I also think its more comfortable for ME. I hate the 360 controller and bought the adapter so I can use my ps3 Controller on the 360.

[McScroggz]

The biggest reason by far that the 360 controller is used more is because the triggers are so much better. I'm not saying there aren't other factors, but that is definitely the biggest one.

[TooL 316]

I've always preferred The ps3 controller from ps1 to Ps3. i just like the way it fits in my hands. with that being said i do prefer the placement of 360's analog sticks. I get the feeling people are disagreeing just because they feel they owe some sort of loyalty to Sony.@MultiConsoleGamer makes a lot of good points. Fear not, for there is hope. I used to be like you... then i grew-up and built a PC.

[Polysix]

@tool316 If you had 'grown up' you wouldn't be typing sentences like that to start with?

I too have a fast PC (GTX780 [email protected] 16GB ram) and I prefer mouse/kbd for FPS any day. That has nothing to do with THIS topic though! I also use an Xbox 360 wireless controller on my PC occasionally (for driving games etc) and it's fine, no problems. However, while I can work with either style the PS3 stick layout just 'feels' better to me.

[Liefx]

Pro gamer here.

I prefer mouse and keyboard.

Jokes aside, if I use a controller, I prefer Dualshock, The less rigid sticks allow for finer movements.

[Polysix]

Actually the 360 put the stick in the prominent position to hide it's god awful D-Pad :P

This is ridiculous, both ways work but I prefer symmetrical like Playstation. It was fine in 1997 and it still is. Moving it up was just a gimmick/differentiator not some magic cure for a problem that didn't even exist.

All this talk of pushing up on the left stick? And when you push up (as you often do and there it remains) your thumb is then in it's natural position. If you push up on Xbox style you are slightly over reaching the thumb! So that would only apply if you weren't actually using the sticks, last time I checked we use the sticks in games.

[Edito]

U made my day lol... keep up the spirit lol the dumb spirit i mean... "Pro Gamer" lol

[Animal Mutha 76]

For once I agree Multiconsolegamer.

It's no coincidence that at Eurogamer all I could see was Xbox 360 controllers on pcs and especially on shooters. Having said that I don't know if the DS3 works on pc.

I guess it's what you are used to. For me the Xbox controller is the finest ever and I've used everything since a kempston joystick on a zx81 in the mid 80's.

The layout of the sticks isn't a deal breaker anyway. I'm not sure why it's generated so much feeling/ people rallying to Sonys defence. The DS4 I used felt well designed although a little front heavy.

[ion53]

Yo see, when I use the left stick when it's up like that, I can't move it left, or top left, or bottom left. It cramps my thumbs. With the symetrical ones, I get a 360° usability.

[Xenomorph]

I play Soul Calibur V with a ps3 controller for a reason. I also play claw, which is incredibly hard on an xbox controller. I prefer PS3 by far.

[Nivalis]

All the pro gamers i know use mouse and keyboard for virtually everything except racers and fighters, pro gamers playing racers use wheels, and pro gamers playing fighters use proper fight sticks.

Your move.

[Magicite]

I have NEVER before seen so many disagrees, guess that explains why Sony is going this route(with analog sticks positioning) for almost 20 years now.

[TemplarDante]

MultiConsoleGamer... you got 444 disagrees.
fuck!

[kenshiro100]

That was funny, but for the wrong reasons.
Thanks for making my morning.

[UnHoly_One]

Well said, multiconsolegamer.

[Rainstorm81]

Its beyond funny when people say Sony copied N64 analog stick...

You do know Sony unveiled the Dual Shock controller in Nov 96 and the N64 wasnt released til 97......

[UnHoly_One]

You have that backwards.

N64 was released in 96, Sony's analog controller in 97.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[Rainstorm81]

@ Unholy

You're right N64 launched in Japan in June 96

But the Dual Shock was unveiled in Nov 96 and released the following year....i doubt Sony Copied Nintendo in 4 months.

R&D does take time

[UnHoly_One]

Yeah I'm not saying they did, honestly, just that technically the N64 was out first.

[Ruggadagod]

Playstation controllers were always superior.

[NexGen]

The original Atari and Odyssey and Intellivision controllers were terrible. The xbone and ds4 controllers are not dofferent enough to warrant a discussion.

[blennerville]

another good example of symmetry would be the handle bars on a bike - its desirable that the left and right of the bar be in symmetry.

unless one arm is quite a bit longer than the other, arguing that a symmetrical design is inferior is just silly - its is the same for thumbs.

"symmetry a buzz word" LOL.

[Lex Luthor]

.

[5eriously]

A lot of text and BS explaining the supposed history but really no valid or new information that jsutifies your "claim".

What a troll of the first degree!

So please do tell the "with good reason" on WHY the left sticks must be forward and WHY that ergonomically better?

[hellzsupernova]

Everyone will soon realise that it is not the position of the sticks but the ergonomics of the grips that matter.

[filchron]

although i do like the PS3 controller for action games like the ninja gaidens because it is lighter and the sticks arent as tight and are more precise than playing with a 360 controller, you do make a good point about the third party controllers. i prefer the 360 controller for shooters and GTA 5. all depends on the type of game i guess. both of the next gen controllers look like they will be even more comfortable to use.

[Blastzone]

The funny thing is neither of the controller's thumb-sticks are in the most advantageous position particularly for shooter's that require use of both thumb-sticks.

The 360/ONE off-set style, Left thumb-stick is in the natural position with the D-PAD below. IMO this is the best placement for the Left thumb-stick.

The PS3/4, D-Pad is in the natural position w/ the thumb-stick below which causes players to open their hand more. My problem with the D-PAD in the natural position is that it usually gets assigned and used for inventory management, alternate weapon selection, etc...

The Right side of these controllers are basically the same, buttons are in the natural position with the thumb-sticks in the lower position. It serves no advantage to games that primarily require the use of both thumb-sticks versus games that use the buttons.

Given a choice between the two, I prefer the XBOX360/ONE controller. BUT the controller with the BEST thunb-stick, button and D-PAD layout for shooters is none other than the WiiU Pro-Controller. Don't hate bc I'm not a WiiU fan at the moment even though I own one but I wish there was an option to have a controller with this style on my next gen console of choice.

[Stevino123]

You're are obviously a cod fan. Because no one plays Battlefield competitivley, what about Last of Us competitive? Lol, get over yourself.

[TheOneEyedHound]

I love you. This comment made my day, to know people are stupid makes me happy.

[TheHybrid]

Just to let you know, you just owned everyone with this post. Hence all the bitter disagrees. Pure, undeniable logic. Well said.

[MultiConsoleGamer]

Every company except for Sony now realizes that the left analog stick is the dominant form of input for most games. That's why the left analog stick is in the primary position. On the right side of the controller the buttons are in the forward or primary position because they are used more than the left analog stick. This means the two primary input devices rest parallel along a horizontal plane. This lay out is the most ergonomic, the most comfortable and the most accurate.

The dual shock style controller forces the player to hold his thumbs at an angle, with the left thumb lower than the right thumb.

The thumb has a natural range of movement. It can rotate on a small radius starting at the first metacarpal bone. The natural range of movement of the thumb is limited by the flexibility of the carpometacarpal joint.

The playstation controller forces the left thumb to move outside of its normal range of movement. This problem is even worse on the PS4 controller because it is larger and users must reach slightly further across the face of the controller to reach the thumb stick.

This is the primary reason why the dual shock controller is less accurate. You could also make an argument that the playstation style controller is bad for your hands. This is why when companies created new controllers with ergonomics in mind they moved the left analog stick to the proper forward position.

The 360 style controller isn't just best for shooters, it's also best for dozens of other genres as well including racing, 3D platform, open world, action, 3D fight games and more.

[Hicken]

You are SO full of BS.

"The dual shock style controller forces the player to hold his thumbs at an angle, with the left thumb lower than the right thumb."

No, they'd both be at the same angle, height, or whatever on the dualshock, because the sticks are symmetrical. It doesn't force anything. FAIL.

"This problem is even worse on the PS4 controller because it is larger and users must reach slightly further across the face of the controller to reach the thumb stick."

The increase in size was added at the controller's center, largely to accommodate the touchpad. The sticks are located in almost the exact same spot as on the DS3. http://www.ps4site.com/wp-c... FAIL.

"This is the primary reason why the dual shock controller is less accurate."

And yet the precision is actually BETTER. More precise analog sticks with less deadzone than the 360's sticks. http://gamer.blorge.com/200... "So, you may be asking – what does the size of the dead zone have to do with anything?

The simple answer is precision. With a larger dead zone it takes more effort and motion to make a movement. Coupled along with higher resistance or friction to the analog stick, it can lead to over compensation for gamers. Also sloppy aiming occurs due to greater motion required to achieve a movement.

Since the PS3′s DS3 has a smaller dead zone the analog stick is much more responsive. Also, with the analog stick being looser, it is more akin to a mouse’s movement." FAIL.

"The 360 style controller isn't just best for shooters, it's also best for dozens of other genres as well including racing, 3D platform, open world, action, 3D fight games and more."

A direct contradiction of everything everybody else in the world has EVER said on the subject, and a contradiction on the overall better precision of the DualShock(which is a fact, by the way).

Not much worse than somebody trying to make an argument with flawed logic and straight out untruth.

Edit: Where are you facts, then? Your "anatomical" fact doesn't say which of the positions is more natural, and actually contradicts itself in saying that it forces one thumb to do what it DOESN'T force the other to do, even while having the thumbsticks in the same position. FAIL.

100 people agree with you, and 560 people disagree. Oh, and I only have account. What's this other you think you know of?

[MultiConsoleGamer]

Once again Hicken you're completely wrong.

What I have said is anatomical fact. It's also backed up by citing precedent. It's very obvious that the industry agrees with my facts as most controllers are designed in the WaveBird / 360 style.

You can blather all you want about dead zones but it's painfully obvious that you don't know what you're talking about, and on some points you're flat out lying. I have facts and you have fanboy opinion.

You have also developed a creepy stalker vibe and have used both your accounts on this site to attack me. If what I say bothers you so much just ignore me. Oh that's right, you can't. My truth makes you feel insecure.

And like it or not over 100 people agree with me, so that's another 100+ people who disagree with you.

[GTAallday]

Over 500 dislikes. lmao

[d3nworth1]

pro gamers that play call of duty. The 360 style controller cater to FPS. People that that play fighting and action games prefer the playstation style controller. Sony has used that design for 16 years and if people had a problem with it they wouldn't buy the system. The one time Sony tried to change the design with the original ps3 boomerang controller fans complained and demanded they changed it back to the regular design.

[AllyBhoy82]

Last time I checked both my hands were simular in size and structure take you mangled hands else where, was you in the film ' the hills have eyes' by any chance ;)

[theXtReMe1]

The fact is, Sony made the controller bigger as to the preference of professional gamers. I believe it doesn't matter where you set the sticks at, as long as they are comfortable for long-term use. Obviously if they sent the sticks out to major first-person shooter developers and they gave their seal of approval, then they must be comfortable over long periods of play.

Gamers are ultimately going to be the people who will give the final seal of approval. And it really doesn't matter which way they go, as far as the ergonomics of the sticks are concerned, because there will always be a third-party manufacturer making a stick that feels like the Xbox controller anyways.

A professional gamer will adapt to whatever is in front of them and make the best out of it. And I imagine Sony had quite a few of them test the sticks before they made their final decision. Again, doesn't really matter either way, because there will be 1 million different third-party sticks out there that will suit any gamer's needs.

[RytGear]

What I dont understand is that if your right thumb is down, whats wrong with having your left thumb down too?
As far as I was aware we have mirrored hands.

[jetlian]

the right thumb is used more. the right has to slide to the buttons. the left is only used for pressing up!

that being the case its sits in the natural hand placement.

[Aceman18]

i'm not a mutant, and my fingers have always been comfortable in the symmetrical setting. so i'm glad they didnt change the layout.

[MysticStrummer]

I dream of an XB1 commercial with Hellboy endorsing the controller...

*sigh*

[GmIsOnPt360]

This is hysterical , asymmetric is the way to go that's not a debate BUT Sony fans and fanboys have made their presence known in forums for sure lol

[DragonKnight]

The only thing that's not a debate is that A) You don't have the authority to make the claim that there's no debate in the case of symmetry vs. asymmetry especially considering you wouldn't be saying so if MS also had symmetrical controllers from the get go, and B) You're an Xbox fanboy. Those two things are fact and can't be questioned. What you stated is the opposite of fact.

[nukeitall]

hmmm... fanboy calling a fanboy calling a fanboy! :D

Yes, that first reference is to me, then dragonknight, then gmlsonpt360. Awesome n4g!!!

That said it is a damn preference! My sh!t smells better than your sh!t!

Deal with it and get over it!

[DragonKnight]

You know, I've seen the same people, and only the same people, calling me a fanboy. And it's never because I'm defending what they consider to be the opposition, it's because I don't defend their preference. Gee, I guess that must make me a fanboy huh. /s

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

***"hmmm... fanboy calling a fanboy calling a fanboy! :D

Yes, that first reference is to me"***

Finally admitting it huh?

[Kryptix]

@nukeitall

Stating facts doesn't make someone a fanboy but denying them does.

The DualShock is perfectly symmetrical and we're all born in perfect symmetry, thus the layout shouldn't bother us at all. You can never say the Dualshock is worse than the 360 controller with where the analog sticks are but it's a valid reason to say the left thumbstick on the 360 controller can be bothersome if those people don't like stretching out their left thumb out of line from their right thumb. That's like having your left hand fingers on QWER and right hand fingers on BNM< on the keyboard. Try it out and see how awkward it is versus being symmetrical with ASDF and JKL:.

[LoveOfTheGame]

@DK
No, you have already stated you hate MS in one of your previous blogs, so constantly bashing them makes you seem like a fanboy.

@Kryptix
Exactly, denying facts is what makes people fanboys. That is why everyone bashing MultiConsoleGamer have proven they are fanboys. He stated nothing that wasn't fact, he wasn't even arguing symmetrical vs asymmetrical. He stated that the Analogue Stick position was an after thought in the DS design, they seem to be stepping it up with DS4, and Sony even proved themselves that the primary movement button/stick should be place in the left forward spot with their original design.

PS: Wii U Gamepad with symmetrical forward sticks seems to be a great feel.

[DragonKnight]

@LoveOfTheGame: Point 1 - Yes, I did state that I hate Microsoft but that makes me an MS hater, not a fanboy. The moves Microsoft make are to the benefit of them and them alone, gamers aren't a thought in their minds so I'm not going to defend a company that seeks to make gaming more and more out of the control of gamers and lies to everyone's face about it.

Point 2 - It's laughable that you are calling most of the people here fanboys because they called out MultiConsoleGamer's B.S.

He literally said this...

"It doesn't matter what Sony believes. Controllers with the left stick in the forward position are superior and are favored by pro gamers for a reason."

What part of that is fact? None of it is. Pro gamers will use KB/M for shooters, Fight Sticks for Fighters, and Wheels for racers so he's full of it. And it's already a well established notion that the DS design is all around superior to the Xbox 360 version, which is only better for shooters, and you can look that up in genre specific forums. OneConsoleFanboy was defending the 360's controller, a matter of preference, and was called out for stating that his opinion is fact when it's not.

[solidjun5]

"hmmm... fanboy calling a fanboy calling a fanboy! :D

I think everyone here knows you are a fanboy nukeitall.

[LoveOfTheGame]

That one piece is what you give for him stating opinion? If you can't tell he is referring to console based pro gamers, I guess that only really happens with COD and Halo, then IDK what is wrong with you people.

Everyone knows any time K+M is allowed it is used, he is speaking of a direct comparison between the DS and 360 controllers.

Even if he did mean it as you said, that still doesn't account for the majority of people who are bashing him for the stick placement and the history of the DS design.

I have never stated which of the two is superior, I would say Xbox mainly for the amount of shooters I play, and my only main gripes with DS3 controller were triggers(obvious) and everything about the sticks, convex, slippery, too damn close. The placement is not hard to get over as they are still in a reasonable location on the controller, i.e. reachable. It doesn't stop the fact that the sticks were afterthoughts on the DS1 and kept around for legacy purposes. Thank God Sony has finally decided to put some love into the sticks as the new design is miles above the old, love that space between them.

[thebudgetgamer]

Yea people preffer something you don't that clearly makes them fanboys.

[OrangePowerz]

And 360 fanboys stating that asymmetrical is the only right way to go are different in what way?

[Jaqen_Hghar]

It is a debate. Look at the poll. Oh right the whole internet is Sony fanboys a man forgot. Funny since MS only wanted online userson their next gen console...

[Drekken]

Everyone that has disagreed likes symmetrical. I guess that makes them a fanboy and not just someone with normal hands.

[rainslacker]

Yeah...why would Sony fans be talking about the PS4 controller in a thread with comments on an article about the controller for the PS4, which they are a fan of? It makes no sense. They must be fan boys...which by definition is an extreme fan of any given thing.

Also, it appears that symmetric vs. asymmetric is highly debatable, based on this very thread. Many people can't seem to debate well though...because stating something isn't debatable implies it's fact, which is the way a fan boy would address the very debate going on.

I find it funny that you mention Sony fans have made their preference known...when the obvious outcome and conclusion of the current debate is that it is entirely up to one's personal preference if they prefer symmetric or asymmetric. Here's another mind blower...they are both right. Might be hard to comprehend if you close off your mind to the real world or others.

To throw in my two cents...360 controller took me all of 10 seconds to get used to the first time I used it. PS1 dual analog took me longer, because analog controllers were still in their infancy and not often used. I could go from one to the other now without even thinking about it(rarely use a 360 controller), I just pick up and play. Both controllers are good(PS3/360), and I've never seemed to have any kind of issue that a lot of fans make an issue of regarding the "opposing" sides shortcomings(triggers, analog, etc), except maybe the d-pad on the 360 which is less than good when you know how good the PS3 d-pad is. I've also never met anyone personally that has taken issue with either, except an occasional GameStop employee who I would probably classify as a fan boy because those particular ones tend to be the arrogant annoying know-it-all type gamer.

[tarbis]

the xbox controller is nothing more than a copy of Sega's Night analog controller. You have Sega to thank for that not M$.

[BitbyDeath]

Symmetrical sticks definitely has a more natural feeling to it.

[xDHAV0K24x]

Opinion is not a fact

[nukeitall]

Making sense here?

Sorry, nobody is listening.

[DragonKnight]

"Opinion is not a fact"

Symmetry and biology are.

[Drekken]

Stating the obvious does not take away his opinion.

[FullmetalAlchemist]

I like the analog sticks symmetrical on my controller, because my fucking hands are also symmetrical with each other.

[xDHAV0K24x]

Cool story bro

[titletownrelo]

bro, we have so much in common!

[DragonKnight]

By countless accounts, the Xbox controller is better only for shooters. Coincidentally (not), most (not all, just most) "professional" gaming events are for the shooter or fighter genres. Professional fighting game tournaments favour fight sticks over gamepads any day, but for those who don't have one, you'll generally hear that the DS design is superior for fighters.

The DS design has also had testimonials as being the all-around best design for myriad genres, while most can't or won't claim the same for the Xbox controller design.

It all boils down to preference, but the DS design has had very minimal changes (if any) from the very first DS controller on the PS1 and that controller won awards. None of the Xbox designs have. So in terms of the experts of the tech industry, testimonials from "professional" users, and your average gamer; it's clear that Playstation's Dualshock design is favoured more despite American gaming journalism attempting to claim the contrary.

Oh, and symmetry isn't a ploy. It's a mathematical and anatomical fact. What kind of freakish hands do you have?

[XboxFun]

"PS1 and that controller won awards."

It won ONE award a very, very long time ago and hasn't since.
And it was from a non gaming source at that. But the 360 controller has been celebrated by many gaming sites and gamers that have called it the best controller around.
(I'm sure though we could both find no name sites that awarded both controllers)

Most top ten lists put the 360 controller above Playstation's every time.

And the 360 controller did win an award for it's wireless technology.

Making it symmetrical is laughable because everyone can use the 360 controller just fine without any complaints. In fact the only complaint most have with the controller is the D-pad.

"that the DS design is superior for fighters"

I've never heard that at all.

I only agree with your first comment made earlier that it's all about preference.

[thebudgetgamer]

For me different games call for different controllers, example. Games like COD that use R1/L1 I preffer on the PS3 while games like Boarderlands that use the triggers I will usually buy for my 360. That's why I bought both consoles, I actually like the fact that they are so different.

[DragonKnight]

"It won ONE award a very, very long time ago and hasn't since.
And it was from a non gaming source at that. But the 360 controller has been celebrated by many gaming sites and gamers that have called it the best controller around.
(I'm sure though we could both find no name sites that awarded both controllers)"

This entire comment is laughable. The DS1 won the Peripheral Development and Technological Impact of Video Game Controllers Emmy Award in 2007 (6 years ago isn't a long time ago) from The National Academy of Television Arts & Sciences.

The very fact that a non-gaming, professional, and well-respected entity awarded Sony for the design of the Dualshock, a design that hasn't changed since inception, is greater proof that it is a superior controller than the opinion of random bloggers, Xbox fanboys, and gaming "journalism."

We're talking about an organization that has to research impact, popularity, design, and other factors in order to give the award. None of the Xbox controllers ever made measured up to the standards necessary. That you would even begin to equate whatever no name site you can think of to the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences is the absolute height of ignorance, hilarity, and fanboyism.

"Most top ten lists put the 360 controller above Playstation's every time."

I'm not even going to bother getting into why this is wrong.

"And the 360 controller did win an award for it's wireless technology."

Oohhhh, that's definitely the same thing as winning an award for its design and impact on the industry. Care to tell us who gave the 360 controller that award? Oh that's right, Microsoft never said. They simply advertised that it was award winning and never mentioned who gave them that award. Certainly not an Emmy award. I'll let you have fun googling it.

"Making it symmetrical is laughable because everyone can use the 360 controller just fine without any complaints. In fact the only complaint most have with the controller is the D-pad."

LMAO! Just because you ignore something, doesn't meant it doesn't exist.

"I've never heard that at all."

Because you're ignoring it. It's a fact that the DS controller is better for fighters. The d-pad is better and the analog sticks are more precise making the combos more easily pulled off and smoother. The Xbox 360's dpad is atrocious and the sticks are stiffer and less precise. People can get used to it, but just go to any forum that caters to fans of the fighting genre and ask them yourself. You'll have to wade through a lot of "real pros use fight sticks" but you'll see amongst those answers that the DS controller is just better.

The 360 controller was designed with shooters in mind, all other games were secondary concerns and that's why the DS controller outdoes it all around.

In the end, none of what I said matters because preference is the word of the day.

[GTgamer]

@Xboxfun go play Street Fighter 4 with 360 controller and do the combos and then do it with a DS u will see why the DS is wayyyyyyyy better for fighters.

[coolasj]

My hands are not asymetrical. Why would my controller be? Besides the fact that if they ever changed it they would be burned from here to the end of time.

[MysticStrummer]

Yeah.

If they stick to their design, MS fans laugh. If they went asymmetrical, MS fans would laugh.

I'm glad my thumbs are symmetrical, but I'm also glad someone made a controller for our gaming cousins with malformed digits.

[NoLongerHereCBA]

One of the reasons why I disliked the PS3 controller is because the analog sticks were symmetrical. My thumbs would often bump into each other which is not something I had while playing on other consoles. Could be that I just wasn't used to it though, but I know this is something that bothered me.

[Skate-AK]

Thats odd. I am 6' 3" with big hands. I have had a PS3 for 4 years and play almost everyday. Never bumbed thumbs.

[OrangePowerz]

Let me guess you use the tip of your thumbs?

I know some people that say the same about thumbs touching and they all place their thumbs flat on the sticks while I never got the problem and use the tips of my thumbs.

[NoLongerHereCBA]

Just picked up the 360 controller to test and I don't place the tip of my thumbs on the analog stick, but my thumbs itself. I always prefer playing this way instead of really putting the tip of my thumbs on the stick. This is probably what gave me issues with the PS3 controller.

[Dante81]

Some of you guys DO NOT know how to hold a DS controller. Learn how to adapt.

[NoLongerHereCBA]

I can adapt if i felt it was necessary, but I just rarely play on my PS3 and for me using the tip of my thumbs is not an optimal playing-style. Disliking what my opinion is is so sad and really says something about this place (not directing it at you specifically). People need to grow up and get over this sad fanboyism.

(last bubble so can't respond)

[Dante81]

I just like the fact that DS3 works well for many genres. The shape isn't that great, but the buttons, sticks(lower deadzone than 360 pad), and the fact that I can add realtriggers if needed makes it a nice all-around pad for gaming.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

All I will say is this... for me, the offset thumbsticks is better for me. My reasoning is the left thumbstick is 99% of the time used for controling movement. Its easier for me to maintain better control of moving when the thumb stick is in the offset upper position. The right thumbstick is better situated in the lower position because even though I lose some control the buttons on the right side get used far more than the dpad does in most games. Having the thumbstick in the lower right position allows me faster/easier access to the buttons on the right side of a controller.

Just my two cents.

[rainslacker]

I don't always agree with you, but I will admit, that is at least a very descriptive reason why it's good for you. That seems to be a lot better than the myriad of "asymmetrical/symmetrical is better because [insert x reason here]".

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Cheers... and yes while we haven't seen eye to eye on a number of things hopefully you will see a new me on n4g. I am doing my best to distance myself from flame wars and just comment on games or matters that aren't pissing contests.

[gamertk421]

Why didn't Sony just make 2 versions if they're trying so hard to win over 360 fans? That is my single biggest complaint about Playstation, above annoying Sony fanboys and lacking online infrastructure.

[BitbyDeath]

MS now moving to dedicated servers must also now be lacking since Sony has been using them since the dawn of time.

Servers are infrastructure FYI.

[Zhipp]

Both M$ and Sony use dedicated servers with some games. I thought the big deal about the Xbox One was that ALL games are supposed to have dedicated servers now. Am I wrong?

[BitbyDeath]

@Zhipp, not all games but MS is moving towards dedicated servers where Sony has been and dedicated servers is better than the P2P crap MS has on the 360 being my point.

[Jaqen_Hghar]

Online has always connected just fine for a man. MS and Nintendo have just as many annoying fans. No other company makes 2 versions and MS is the oddball as far as analog/touchpad placement goes (WiiU, PS4, and Steam controller are symmetrical).

[nevin1]

I'll take the DS placement.

[xboned_you]

How does saying it has "Symmetrical" analogs change the fact that they have been the same place since they were 1st implemented, and with still feel unnatural!? Its just there way of say we can't accept Microsoft got it right, but we included a pretty lightbar cause our camera can hardly track you and needs assist!

[xKugo]

Symmetrical is a fucking word you moron. Your hands, eyes, ears and feet are all symmetrical because it's the true design of human anatomy. Assymetrical, simply put is an abomination resorted to by Microsoft because the patent for symmetrical analogs is taken for, which left them with the inferior design. Nobody had a problem with the symmetrical design in the PS1 and PS2 days when the controllers wons awards year after year. In fact, the world around loved it and claimed it the best thing to come to console gaming. Microsoft enters the market and breeds American loyalist who only believe in the Xbox way of doing ANYTHING, despite the fact that most of the world sees it as a failed alternative to the true original. Take your head out of your ass and smell the roses dipshit. Nobody thinks the Xbox controller is better other than it's blind fanbase.

Lmao

[xboned_you]

Lol I just said how does that change the fact that they are still in the same place? Saying symmetrical is a give! Its STILL changes nothing And you still explained nothing like the article! But thanks for telling me rhetorical information LMAO feel better? And nobody had a problem because the original Xbox was out? What did they have to complain about? They improved the original controller design it it was over! FPS will never be with same with out it just admit it!

[Dante81]

It's not Sonys fault you started gaming on 360. Once you hit puberty, you'll learn how to adapt.

[xboned_you]

Lmao waited over 2 years to get a 360! Had a day one PS3 with talladega nights!! Still waiting on my 4D Graphics and my 120fps.. Not to mention bluray to psp transfer on all bluray! Sony still has ur gullible mind trap in ur childhood with there over promising! At least Microsoft delivers! In game music and cross game chat was supposed to be system wide along time ago..... OVER PROMISING TO THE EXTREME

[Drekken]

xboned... how has the last 2 years of 360 games been treating you? How's those hot off the press AAA exclusives? You want to talk about brainwashed, take a long, hard look in the mirror.

There is only one company that delivers constantly when it comes to console gaming.

[Tito08]

Nope, the reason is because the US media and fanboys like you wants to force Sony into changing the controller and make it seem like the XBox controller is the de facto controller, making it seem like the standard, when in reality the controller is pretty much favored for FPS, no wonder you fanboys love Halo so much, btw, that analog on top was something Sega came up with, while Sony brought dual analogs, if it wasn't for both analog designs from Sega and Sony, XBox controller would of being totally different.

[rainslacker]

Why would they move them? If they wanted to stay with a symmetrical design, where would they possibly move them? Up top like on the Wii U? That's fine for the Wii U because the controller is quite large, but it doesn't make sense for a smaller control pad. If they moved them to the current position of the d-pad or the buttons, they would be quite uncomfortable to use, because you'd have to shift your hands based on the current design of the controller.

I have to ask...how is it unnatural? When you pick up the DS controllers, your thumbs rest right where the analog sticks are. If anything, the original PS1 design was a bit unnatural, because you had to move your thumbs inward or shift your grip slightly to be able to use them, although when they started with the analogs, they did shift the grip ever so slightly to accommodate for the analog sticks.

Maybe it isn't Sony just trying to avoid copying MS that "got it right". Maybe Sony got it right the first time, and to date there has been no reason to really change it. Do you think Sony doesn't do focus testing on something as important as controller design? I'm pretty sure it had a pretty large budget, and numerous usability engineers working on how to make it "right".

Seriously...how come it wasn't until MS came out with the 360 that all of a sudden people seemed to have a problem with the DS design? It's not like asymmetric controllers weren't available before the 360. It isn't like the analog up top design wasn't available. The Dreamcast had one up top as I recall. I don't recall the DC controller getting tons of praise. The only complaint I've ever heard about it before this gen was that it was too small for larger hands.

[KRUSSIDULL]

It all comes down to preference. I prefer to Xbox 360 because the position of the Left Stick allows my left hand to hold most of the weight of the controller. This allows my right hand easy movement to front face buttons and increased precision with my right thumb.
Also by not having the thumb sticks at a position like on the Dualshock my middle fingers doesn't have any problems reaching RT and LT. Where on Dualshock the buttons for firing has to be put on R1 which feels unnatural.

[pacostacos]

resting your thumbs in a natural position (where your thumbs point upward not sideways) on both controllers your thumbs land on the left stick and face buttons on the xbox and on the dpad and face buttons on the ps4. this is why the xbox controller is more comfortable at least for me because i dont use a dpad unless i have to or i am playing a fighting game. Having the left stick and face buttons in line makes more sense for how the majority of gamers play games using the sticks

[rainslacker]

The thing is though, Sony's controller is designed in such a way to be held in a position that your hands naturally adhere to when resting in your lap, which is the common way to play games while seated. To use the 360 controller like that, you have to twist your wrist ever so slightly to be able to accommodate the position. Not that big a deal for most, and their thumbs end up resting naturally on the 360, however, it isn't symmetrical, and means that both hands are in different positions.

Make your hands like you just are holding them open like you would be doing not thinking about it. Then just sit there and put your hands in your lap equal distance apart without thinking about it. Then look down. Notice where your thumbs are? That's right, they're where the analog sticks are on the DS controllers.

Now twist your wrist like you would have to do to be able to use the 360 controller. That isn't a natural position.

Even if your raise up your hands in either instance...like you would see in any given commercial so people look like they're having fun...you would notice that your hands naturally stay in the position of the DS controller analogs. However, doing the same for the 360 layout, you notice that where the top of the controller is starts to move inward, thus becoming unnatural to hold. BTW...commercials are bad examples of how to hold a controller...because they're trying to show the controller, so it's purposely unnatural for any game controller shown.

The buttons on the DS controllers are less than 1/2" from the right analog stick, and all you have to do is move your thumb slightly to use them, not your whole wrist. Now it's been a while since I've used the 360 controller, but I remember having to move my thumb a lot more than I ever had to on the DS.

[Zhipp]

Except holding a controller is not the same as putting your hands in your lap. If anything, it's more like holding your hands sideways in front of you(palms facing eachother) with your fingers limp.

Insert a controller with your hands in that position and your fingers should naturally rest near the top of the controller, i.e directly on the D-pad and face buttons if you're using a Dualshock. Moving your fingers to the joysticks will cause a (near infinitesimal) bit of strain on the muscles in your hand. At least that's how my fingers are. For my left hand to be completely relaxed, the left stick has to be near the top of the controller.

The right stick doesn't matter so much as most games require that you regularly shift your thumb between the sticks and buttons anyway, but I do agree that the 360's buttons are placed a bit too far from the stick for comfort. That's pretty much my only gripe with that controller(besides the abysmal D-pad, of course)

[xDHAV0K24x]

So a dreamcast fan had jacked up hands too? Gtfo...

[Grave]

I have have played on both quite a bit, but the DualShock for me just feels so much more natural. The hard, if not impossible thing, is to find is a controller for the Xbox that mimics the DualShock.

[mhunterjr]

It truly comes down to preference, but people need to realize it's the the asymmetrical design of the xbox controller is based on the dominant action performed in first person shooters.

With an asymmetrical layout, when held like two guns, your left thumb comfortably on the left stick and it will rarely move from this position. your right thumb will move back and forth between the face buttons and the joystick.

It's trivial to say Sony's symmetrical layout is superior simply because your hands are symmetrical. That doesn't take into account the movements and positions your during gameplay. The "double C" grip used to reach both Sony joysticks isn't the natural resting position for your hands

[Bathyj]

Can someone explain to me why xbox player think asymmetrical is better for shooters? I just dont get it.

Is it because youre right thumb is closer to your body and your left is being held out you actually think your holding a rifle?

I make no definite claims that any style is the best, I simply say I prefer symmetrical but Xbox owners make out like its a scientifically proven fact that just refuse to acknowledge.

If the sticks are better offset why arent the grips offset? If you hold the grips and then naturally rest your thumbs down they fall on the same place, just because youve trained your brain to drop one thumb lower doesnt mean its the standard norm.

[Drekken]

I tried the beloved xbox controller and it was very uncomfortable for me. My thumb felt like it was being forced into an unnatural position when I had to move the stick to the left. I will never understand the love that controller gets.

[level 360]

Especially with corporations like Microsoft and Sony ( others included ) it's all about trademark infringement laws that they have to deal with.

Once a design has been placed it has to be protected.

Ergonomic and aesthethically speaking there is not much difference between the two. If you're really being truly picky - and by that I mean a few centimeters the XBox 360/ONE has that slight advantage in terms of easier-to-access ( left ) thumb placement movement.

For me, I still prefer the PS4/DS4 overall just by looking and figuring out between the XBox ONE's.

[feraldrgn]

I don't really understand the preference for asymmetrical sticks.

We have symmetrical hands, it makes sense to have symmetrical controllers.

[fghtrer3fb5erg]

dual shock 4 for the winner!! people are saying the ds4 didnt change much from the ds3? WTF?? it changed 70% at least!

[jeffgoldwin]

Touchpad gimic, no ty. I respect people preferring the controller layout, but I don't see that touchpad going anywhere.

[GTgamer]

When phones had buttons only then went to make it a touchscreen was that a gimmick or a evolution of a device smh the touchpad is just a add on just Sony Trying to build on and refine an old design your not forced to use it, its the same price as DS3 so your damn sure paying more for it.

[jeffgoldwin]

@GTGamer

I see your points and agree and degree. I do like touch phones. I do not like Kinect, touch screen on WiiU, or the motion controls from Wii.

The money spent developing the touch screen portion could have went to a better controller like the xbox one has wifi direct (longer range, faster response, better battery life). But overall I like that it's a bigger controller, and comfort is the main thing.

[GTgamer]

Gimmick-something designed to attract extra attention, interest, or publicity
That's the kinect and the touchpad add on isn't anything like that its just something new to a redesign and can be useful for web browsing,and small games like angry birds or jetpack joyride or psvita games so its actually useful that gives you wider options and more input.

[Tito08]

Better battery life? How so when the XBox controller uses AA batteries, lol, nice try though, btw, I bet those rumble triggers will drain a lot of battery life.

[jeffgoldwin]

wifi direct = longer battery life. http://www.engadget.com/201...

AA can come in rechargeable factor or a battery pack--REPLACEABLE. As any battery user knows after a few years, kiss about 50% of the capacity goodbye and you cant replace the batteries on one of these controllers.

So im going with nice try yourself, sir : P

[Tito08]

Lol, oh wow,battery life depending on Wifi, look at the date, it says May 21st, a day after the Xbox reveal, a lot of stuff happened after that, a lot of 180s, all of that after E3. BTW what's this?

http://www.reddit.com/r/xbo...

It says, from your dear Major Nelson, Xbox One controller does not support Wifi Direct, so your claims of longer battery life was purely crap, Xbone supports Wifi Direct, but it's for Smartglass, posted on August 26th, exactly last month..

Your evidence stated as rumored, you got fooled by your own link, once again, nice try though ;-).

[arbitor365]

i have never understood why having the analog sticks all cock-eyed somehow makes the xbox controller better for shooters.

[lawlesdweller]

Having the attitude of someone who explains himself as a "Pro Gamer" makes me and most of the gaming community cringe due to the fact this person will play a few titles and give himself a title when the real gamers are the ones out there that try and play various games.

People who live for COD and COD allown are just the basic of gamers

[pop-voxuli]

No, they are symmetrical because it's correct and looks and feels better.

[jeffgoldwin]

Are your shoes symmetrical?

Answer: no they are not, so I really don't buy that logic vs using what's comfortable for you.

[CEOSteveBallmer]

Are your eyes not symmetrical?? is your left eye on your forehead while your right eye is on your nose level?? yeah keep defending why xbucks controller is better.

[Hicken]

Your shoes AREN'T symmetrical?

What's wrong with your feet?

[pop-voxuli]

Well, they are right next to each other! I mean for real, the right one is directly across from the left one(just like analogue sticks should be).

[annus]

You need to learn the definition of symmetrical. Get a line and put one shoe on one side, the other shoe on the other, with them both pointing straight forward. They should be a mirrored image of each other. That's symmetry.

[hellvaguy]

Your shoes are not symmetrical or u could wear them on either foot. Which u cannot. Just sayin. . .

[thexmanone]

Xbox one controller looks and fells better for me. I do not need anyone telling me what controller is best. I know what one works best for me.

[windblowsagain]

Next up.

Crytek say xbox one controller gives you an edge. I can hear the spin now.

[PFFT]

I can already hear the Sony Fanboys spinning that into a negative thing like they always do to NON-Sony articles.

[CEOSteveBallmer]

Yeah and Xbots like yourself do not do the same? Hypocrite!!

[ElementX]

Placement of the thumbstick doesn't matter to me however I just like the feel of a 360 controller more than my PS3 controller.

[wannabe gamer]

Agree, i dont think stick placement matters as much as size and shape of the controller for hand fit/grip. PS is small and doesnt fill space of a normal hand which causes cramps.

[gamer7804]

of all the things to take sides about, symmetry for analog?

To me its all movement, this gen i was split, 360 for analog, ps3 for d-pad.

I haven't felt the new controllers, but if they have both learned their lessons the drawbacks from last gen will be history.

I'm more interested in how the impulse triggers will feel and the touchpad on ps4 controllers will be utilized.

[TrollCraftTales]

I prefer the un-symmetrical design of the 360 controller just because of the stupid way I hold a controller. I use a "modified claw grip" on my controller so 90% my left hand is much higher on the controller than my right, but other than that I prefer the PS3 controller. I am getting a PS4, so I will learn to use it better, but the ONLY reason I prefer the Xbox is because of my own personal problem, it makes much more sense to have symmetrical thumbsticks for the average gamer...

[wishingW3L]

Sony fans will defend symmetrical, the Xbox fans will defend asymmetrical... What's new here?

To me symmetrical is better, that's why Dualshock is so good for fighting games, partly because of the position of the D-pad.

[wishingW3L]

symmetrical in reference to the face-buttons which are on par with the D-pad.

[tulholdren]

For me I like the Playstation controller just feels right in my hands.....

[PFFT]

Xbox One Pad for me thank you very much.

[Grandmaster-B]

I have never touched a xbox pad, I mean for what?!!
To play Halo...LMAO.

[MajorMayhem70]

Microsoft did put extra thought into it's controller. Before the launch of the original Xbox, MS got a group of core gamers that helped MS come up with what is essentially the controller you see today. Back then we dubbed the controller "Duke" because of it's massive size. MS developed a smaller controller that was more hands friendly but kept the same offset stick configuration. It is true that pro gamers do tend to use the offset style over the symmetrical design that Sony offers. I bought an after market controller for my PS3 because I am more comfortable with the Xbox style. It's the preferred choice for FPS. Considering FPS ruled the genre for this generations genre of gaming Xbox controller was golden. The first Playstation controller without the dual sticks was great because the genre of gaming at the time was platformer's and fighting games. The current controller is still good and I use it too... for platformers and fighting games. They have made some major upgrades to the DS4 controller and I plan on giving it a fair shot when I play KZone SF. If it works well i'm happy. If not, I'm pissed cause i'm having to purchase another after market controller again that has the offset sticks. No telling when they will come out.

[ceed911]

If you have to defend a piece of a controller there probably is something wrong with it.

[Scatpants]

I've always preferred the Xbox controller layout. The controller also fits better in my hand and has better triggers. It looks like Sony fixed a lot of the problems but I'd rather have the staggered sticks. I'm getting both so it will be interesting to directly compare them.

[CertifiedGamer]

I have to admit I love the dual shock 3 and I love the 360 controller. Both are well made controllers. Sony and Microsoft invested a lot into making them awesome. They invested that money, not to compete against eachother as much as they did it to compete against 3rd party controllers, and at the end of the day when it comes down, fans always buy the original design over the 3rd party counter part hands down. This isn't about Sony vs Microsoft but more like Sony and Microsoft vs. 3rd party controllers.

[LordDhampire]

yeah, I like the offset sticks better for shooters, but everything else I prefer inline

for yoga in gta 5 for example, was more of a pain on the xbox 360 then the ps3

[DragoonsScaleLegends]

If we were meant to use asymmetrical controllers than we would have different sized thumbs. But we don't.

[jeffgoldwin]

Do you have different sized feet? Because your shoes aren't asymmetrical, so your example fails here.

[AceBlazer13]

maybe cause my thumbs and body r symmetrical . anyway, the controller was my only turn off on the 360,wish i could say the same for the xbox one.

[ebreda]

Fanboys are unbelievable.
Since the dawn of controllers, your thumb rested precisely on the dpad and the face buttons.

MS was clever enough to figure out that nowadays the dpad has been replaced for the left analog stick as the primary input method, and that's why the 360 controller has the left analog stick where it is now: where dpads used to be.

Fanboys could make a point that the right analog stick should also ocuppy the face buttons place to keep it symmetrical. That would be valid enough.

But the DS2, DS3 and DS4 solution is horrible, since it does not aknowledge that the most natural resting places for your thumb are where the dpad and face buttons have always been in the first DS.

It's if Sony still thinks that the primary input method is the dpad, and that's unacceptable.

[_FantasmA_]

Wrong. Why would the primary method of input be farthest away from your thumbs? Its unnecessary stretching. I love the DS3. I think too many people say the 360 is better for shooters because there are only shooters to play on there. That and they are comparing the DS2 with the 360 controller. The DS2 sticks were too stiff to be comfortable in shooters, but the looseness of the DS3 is king.

[okmrman]

stretching?
can you stretch your thumb you idiot

and looseness of a joy stick is horrible for fine aiming. which is why sony themselves made the ps4 joystick more tighter

[_FantasmA_]

"looseness of a joy stick is horrible for fine aiming"

I guess that translates into you sucking at shooters. And yeah I can stretch idiot. Angry xbot seems angry.

[wannabe gamer]

I was a NES then sega Genesis then Playstation 1 gamer back in the day growing up. I loved the PS1, some of the best years i had of gaming! Then i missed out on the next gen for the most part untill the last 2-3 years maybe and i happened to get an xbox original (cant say 1 anymore ugh). With the PS1 i never had a problem with the controller. The xbox had the huge controller then they had the S sstyle i think it was called which felt better than the huge odd launch controller.
with 360 they seemed to make it even better and it works great. I recently got a PS3 and having never really played one much i immediately feel very awkward using the controller. its just way to small and im not a giant person by any means no where near large hands. Ive been playing with it nearly nonstop for the last 2 weeks and a few days ago i just happned to use my 360 controller that is hooked to my PC for racing games and such. it immediately felt like it fit like a glove and just relaxed my hands. the PS3 controller cramps my hands and causes pain, its just not the right shape or size.

TLDR been gaming 25 years all systems and xbox 360 style is perfect. PS style is pain inducing

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

Im pretty sure Sonys been pretty good with controllers longer than MS has been... and for obvious reasons looking at their history in console making!

[_FantasmA_]

If you've only played shooters and only shooters on your brobox, you will think the 360 is t3h best controlla on da market. But if you've tried them both, I think you will find the DS3 is so much more comfortable and allows you to play many, many hours without your thumbs feeling stiff and numb.

[LogicStomper]

I've tried both and I find the Xbox controller more ergonomic over long durations of use without stiff joints and numb fingers. You're probably just holding the controller wrong imo.

Your argument is now invalid.

[Tito08]

It's downright unnecessary for the media and XBox fanboys trying to force Sony into changing a design that was proven good since the PS1 days. Obviously I see y'all trying to make it seem like the XBox controller is the industry`s standard controller. Then why weren't y'all bragging about Brick XBox and S controller when it was going toe to toe with DS2? Exactly, nothing to do with analog positions, y'all just wanna make it into one of Microsoft's accomplishments over Sony's, no one complains about DShock sticks other than XBox fanboys, why? Because you XBox tards hate the fact the DShock is a very popular controller, more than XBox controller, and funny every Sony and Nintendo controllers have their own names, while XBox is simply XBOX CONTROLLER lol.

[okmrman]

i guess thats why most pc gamers who use controllers choose the xbox 360 controller

i wonder why

[Tito08]

Obviously, because PC is pretty much infected with FPSs, MS made an official controller for PCs, Sony hasn't, so it really wasn't "choice" as you make it seem like, my answer for you "OK MR MAN", nice try, but try harder next time "partner".

[Rageanitus]

Its all about PREFERENCE, I prefer the PS controller but I do understand why ppl prefer the xbox controller.

This goes with alot of products out there
- knife sets,
- gaming keyboards
- your steering wheel in your car
- the seats in your car

[GryestOfBluSkies]

i dont get this debate. i really think its just preference. i dont think one is better than the other, its only what you feel comfortable with.
it just seems like people make a big deal over something that really doesnt matter.

[lfPetrini]

So I assume games like God of War are terrible to play on Playstation, since the thumbs don't align symmetrically.

[GryestOfBluSkies]

umm what? GoW plays great on playstation, and the sticks are symmetrical

[ebreda]

Exactly. Sony's fanboys arguments become invalid as soon as a game requires left analog movement and face buttons, because your thumbs are now resting in asymmetrical places.

Xbox left analog and buttons: symmetrical
PS left analog and face buttons: asymmetrical

Xbox left analog and right analog: asymmetrical
PS left analog and right analog: symmetrical

By fanboys definition (symmetrical is King or some bs like that) PS controllers would be better for shooters and Xbox controller would be better for most everything else.

In reality, though, Xbox controllers are better for everything except fighters, because of the terrible dpad.

[giovonni]

Ebreda, makes a very valid point. Pick up your ps3 controller, and be honest with yourself Sony Fans, and look down. you'll be surprised to find your natural resting hands will be asymmetrical. Your left hand will either rest on the Dpad and face buttons, or rest on the left thumb stick and face buttons. If sony was smart they would replace the pad with the thumb stick since sticks are the standard. However, that would mean a total redesign of the DS controller, which to most is a bad thing.

However, Sony fans dislike change that either isn't implemented by Sony themselves, or threatens their fanboy-ish perspective of what is better. So, what you get are these bias responses and idiotic pictures of photo shopped thumbs appearing upside down, ( or whatever) to justify why the rivals controller doesn't make sense, which in reality is a horrible attempt. Yet in reality, they hold their controllers asymmetrical, and been holding it like that for years.

Another company comes along and makes the adjustment by switching the the d pad for the analog stick placement, and now it's some how unnatural and uncomfortable. Now, here are Sony Die hards making power point slides trying to prove it's unnatural?

[jspillen]

I have a PS3 and a 360.

I've noticed that if I'm sitting in my recliner upstairs and in the reclined position the PS3 controller is way more comfortable.

If I'm downstairs playing it's easier to sit upright at my desk and play the 360 controller.

[ghostrider32]

Are we really arguing about controllers? 2013 era gamers.................

[YodaCracker]

My problem with the DS3 was not so much the placement of the sticks, but just the overall poor design. The surface of the analog sticks is convex. It does not grip your fingers like the 360 controller does with its little nubs on the surface of the sticks.

Then of course you have the very poorly designed triggers. They feel completely imprecise and again are not designed to hold your fingers in place like the 360 controller.

Overall, the whole DS3 controller feels cheap and shoddy. It's completely style over comfort, with the same design from 15 years ago. Games have evolved very much since then, and the 360 controller was designed with modern games in mind.

I'm so relieved to see the great improvements Sony has made with the DS4, while still retaining the classic DualShock look. It's long overdue but I will finally be able to enjoy games on a PlayStation console again without the constant, nagging feeling that the game would play so much better with an Xbox controller.

[kingPoS]

Just like my pc mouse, I prefer game controllers to be symmetrical. I've got two matching hands Dangit! and I use them both.

Have you seen some gaming mice Some of them don't fit very well for lefties.

[SaulGoodman]

Dont know bout you guys but ive always thought playstation has had the best controller. I say controller and not controllers because they have pretty much been the same since ps1. You know what they say, dont fix whats not broken.

[MadLad]

I simply prefer the 360 style pad over dual-shock. Both are good controllers, but one better suits me.

[Gaming_Guru]

I'm looking at some of the comments and I can never understand how can someone love the placements on the XBOX controller over the PlayStation. When it comes to gaming for me, I can switch from one console to another with ease.

I always thought the analog sticks were placed where they are because it's was originally optional inputs (PS1 days) and just carried over to the next hardware.

I remember when people were complaining that the analog sticks were too awkward to use in gaming, and now people generally expect them as inputs.

[capjacksparrow]

I love my Sony controllers. I think my second favorite is the new Wii U pro controller. I like the way that feels too, everyone should check it out.

[BadlyPackedKeebab]

It seems to be its all to do with hand size. I can handle both but the ps pads are not comfortable for someone like me with big hands as the pad is too small and the angle I have to set my thumbs at is not natural. The pad design was created with Japanese hands in mind of course.

[DestinyHeroDoomlord]

As if people really care about what controller is better. .. oh wait...

[Bolts]

This article is missing a very important point. They both suck. This is yet another generation of using "last gen" controllers. Apparently what Sony and Mircosoft are saying is that auto aim is the future when they decided to stick to the status quo.

How about this for a radical concept. A console controller that allow you to free aim easily and seamlessly as a mouse and keyboard. According to Sony and Microsoft this is impossible, despite the shooters genre absolute domination over the console platform we're still stuck with controllers that were originally designed to play platform, racing, and fighting games.

[leonlion]

microsoft tried to copy the dreamcast controller layout right down to the triggers, wouldn't be surprised if sega sold them the rights to that design.

DualShock is far superior to Xbox Controller except for the triggers, thanks to Sega for the analogue triggers

[giovonni]

Here is a bit of history for you, in 2001 MS and Sega partnered to continue the vision of what the Dreamcast failed to do. This is why the xbox mimicked the dreamcast, and had the majority of sega influenced games, which is why Peter Moore held an office in MS. this was all done from a partnership, and past sega employees influence on the xboxThis is the same matter of nintendo and Sony's relationship in the past.

[leonlion]

Yes Microsoft Killed SEGA with their exorbitant licencing fees.

Thanks Microsoft!

[steve30x]

I much prefer where the sticks are on the plystation controller

[RealtorMDandDC]

With larger hands than a great percentage of the world's population. Don't really see anything wrong with the PS3 controller. I also owned a PS1 and PS2 so I could just be use to it.

[chronoforce]

The only reason's I think the DS stick placement is uncomfortable is that sometimes while playing games your thumbs can actually touch. The controller is rather small so I find my thumbs are arched a lot of the time.On top of that, there is the slippery concave analogue nubs,the shitty triggers, so shit lots of shooters have you use R1 to shoot( this seems to have been rectified with the new triggers).In the end its highly usable and the uncomfortably experienced is probably mainly due to the differing hand size of individuals rather than the design itself. Before the original Xbox even came out everybody was using the DualShock. Either people have forgotten or all lots of these Xbox fanboys have-not been gaming for very long.

[MaverickStar7]

When Sony introduced the analog sticks they were rarely used and were just added to open space on the controller. The controller has been mostly the same going in the 4 generation of it now. No need to change it.

These symmetry ideas are ridiculous. The sticks and your hands my be symmetrical, but your use of controls during the game are not. Most games you will use left stick and buttons first, but throughout the game you thumbs will also engage the right stick and dpad.

The whole comment section is another mix of fanboy bickering and people realizing their opinion of which layout they prefer is not actually a fact of which one is better.

[solidworm]

Human beings are symmetrical therefore a controller ie an extension of us must also be symmetrical for efficiency. If you cant use a dualshock your either a fanboy or a retard.

[BIGBOSS08]

people need to LOOK at their hands! its the dualshock that has always been the most natural controller. the xbox one is the awkward one with the analogue sticks far apart from eachother.. its just stupid but of course microsoft and its fans have made it seem like its the greatest controller in the world. typical of them.

[bonafide732]

yea for me personally. I prefer the symmetrical design/ when i do play on the 360 over friends house's i picture a ps3 controller in my hands because its slightly awkard for me putting my left hand up so high. other than that its the same for me

[Kidmyst]

I like both controllers and play just fine with both. Not a big deal for me. I prefer Keyboard and Mouse for FPS though.

[360ICE]

I prefer the 360 controller over the PS3 one, but symmetrical sticks is probably one of the things I like better with the PS3 controller. The D-pad is almost useless on 360.

[chobit_A5HL3Y]

the human body is a symmetrical design... the xbox controller layout is a learned/acquired preference, not a natural one. i feel like ms just moved the sticks to be different, and the fanboys went insane over it lolz the 360 one isn't uncomfortable or anything, but it's certainly not superior because the sticks are offset, imo...

[no_more_heroes]

Both symmetrical and asymmetrical analog stick layouts are fine by me. No problems switching between them for me and there never has been for as long as both types have existed.

[H0RSE]

The Playstation controller, specifically the location of the sticks, is a big reason why I won't even consider buying a PS.

And people need to stop with the "humans are symmetrical" argument, as some type of "evidence" for the DS being ergonomic. Have you people actually seen devices designed around ergonomics?

http://www.microsoft.com/ha...

http://www.ergodirectusa.co...

Symmetry is not some "golden rule" of ergonomics. In fact, ergonomics tend to be designed around unconventional design aspects to achieve optimal results.

[Soldierone]

Both products are more comfortable and they conform to your hands. They are simply not "functional" because you are not used to them.

[Tzuno]

Xbox controller is superior even if you deny that. I hate to play a game on ps3 and touch thumbs one with another in a intense play moment.

[Soldierone]

Its a matter of opinion.

For me, Sony's are a lot more functional. When you take into account the DPad is still used and they also function as buttons, Xbox's layout sucks. Especially for fighting games. Xbox may be more "precise" but it isn't as functional as simply placing it under the thumb like PlayStation.

All I ever hear is "well my thumbs hit when they both go inwards." And honestly, under what scenario are you even doing that?

[SynestheticRoar]

DS4 is made for normal human beings. With one left hand, and one right hand. X1 is made for a less advanced in mental, physical, or social development than is usual for one's age. Just maybe he or she has two left hands. In that case it's perfect for that individual.

[Drainage]

the symmetrical sticks is WHY i prefer the PS

[GTAallday]

Over 500 dislikes. Lol