Carmack: Microsoft and Sony could be hostile to Mantle

Carmack expressed his feeling on the Mantle announcement by AMD, stating that Microsoft and Sony could be hostile to the interesting initiative.

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Festano1945d ago

Finally, we can exploit our beloved duty pc.

dmeador1945d ago

So can anyone explain to me the part about "Perfect parallel rendering - utilize all 8 CPU cores"? Are there really rigs that can make use of this? My understanding was that a 8 core system didn't scale, and you cant just add cores to increase performance for many reasons.

gaffyh1945d ago

More importantly, can anyone explain why DirectX or OpenGL (especially) couldn't simply take ideas from Mantle and improve their APIs?

Eonjay1944d ago

The concept of an open library is always a good idea... especially if it can maximize the AMD chipsets. I can see Microsoft being hostile to this because they want to license DirectX (if Direct X is the standard they will make a lot of money from this). But why should a developer do this if they can get max performance from a free open library that can run across all architectures. I wonder if Mantle works on the Wii U AMD GPU as well.

Kleptic1944d ago (Edited 1944d ago )

^That is exactly the point of mantle...developers CAN'T get 'max' performance out of current high level API's...which is exactly why devs have been pushing for better specific drivers for years...

Mantle is a low level feature set for a very specific group of gpu's...allowing developers to better utilize that far, only AMD's GCN gpu architecture is supported...but rumors are the technology is open to other hardware manufacturers, other providers could do the same thing for their own hardware...

All this is doing is giving PC development a piece of 'coding to metal'...removing many bottlenecks created by Windows and its high level API offerings between the OS and the hardware...The high level stuff is fine for getting a game to run on all kinds of different pc configurations...but its NOT good for optimizing and efficiency...

the problems high level api's create is exactly why a console with ~1 Tflops computing power could be compared to a PC with 2.5...the PC is much more 'powerful', but a significant portion of that performance is wasted in OS redundancies and lack of hardware specific optimization...easily the strongest part of consoles as a platform...

this is good for just makes porting t0 and from the 'big 3 platforms' cheaper and easier...and it also will hopefully fix this issue where it takes a $400+ PC cpu to not bottleneck a 2 year old high end gpu...

@Dmeador...To this day per core performance in a PC cpu is more critical than the number of cores...for reasons you sort of said...the number of cores basically specifies how many simultaneous strings of code it can crunch 8 core cpu can do 8 per clock cycle...that sounds awesome...but talk to a developer about getting an engine to effectively push 8 lines of code...despite the PS3 and all of its craziness, parallel processing is still extremely expensive and time consuming to develop...

Frostbite 2, and the upcoming 3, have been noted as some of the best scaling rendering engines around though...BF3's multiplayer has always made excellent use of 2 and 4 core cpu's...FB3 is said to utilize up to 8...but mantle, on the other hand, is a low level api for removing cpu overhead...meaning, with the right gpu, the importance of the cpu won't be nearly as high...thats the theory, anyway...we'll see how well it works...

indysurfn1944d ago

Here is a thought, if this was used for PS3 and Xbox360 making them 9 times more powerful. Would that not KILL PS4 and XBONE sales? Also continuing on that line of reason. Would that not Kill PS5 and XBTWO future release?

I think it would help the underpowered pcgamebox but it could threaten future reasons for people to upgrade any time soon. That is what I think Carmack is really hinting at between the lines.

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WarThunder1945d ago (Edited 1945d ago )


"Considering the boost Mantle could give to a steambox, MS and Sony may wind up being downright hostile to it."

grassyknoll1945d ago (Edited 1945d ago )

Considering Steam OS was partly designed by Nvidia, I'm expecting Steamboxes to be all Nvidia based. I think this fragmentation of the PC market is gonna end up quite self destructive.

jeffgoldwin1945d ago

There's only NVidia and Amd. That's 2 by my count. Besides the whole point of Steam (Linux based) is to be open, so amd will have a hand in too.

That's not very fragmented and much as your console hopes and dreams want to believe.

FrigidDARKNESS1945d ago

True, dont know why folks are automatically putting the Mantle with Steambox. If you go back and look at AMDs financial investors list Valve isn't listed like MS and Sony.

Perjoss1945d ago

as far as I understood it, steam boxes are customizable, so you could probably use either amd or nvidia hardware in them.

Vegrad4151945d ago

I think the main issue is drivers. Valve teamed up with Nvidia because in the past they have done better with their linux drivers. AMD not so much.

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windblowsagain1944d ago

Why would they be hostile to it when it will speed up their consoles as well.

Better code with PC = better fps for Consoles.

Scroticus1944d ago

DirectX. Licensing fees. Enough said.

kingdip901945d ago

With this and steam os it seems the pc gaming industry wants to pull away from microsoft

Seafort1945d ago (Edited 1945d ago )

The PC gaming industry has been trying to do that for years but MS has a monopoly with the OS market and Direct X.

I hope this goes well for AMD with nvidia and valve (steambox) ultimately on board to work together and create a new graphics instruction set to get rid of MS stranglehold on PC gaming once and for all.

Then we just need the publishers and indie devs to get on board as well so I can finally use a proper gaming OS.

Perjoss1945d ago

I've been dreaming of a true dual boot type of gaming OS for years now. Microsoft are not smart at all when it comes to gaming on Windows, they have this massive audience of people that love gaming on the PC but instead they just try and push them onto the xbox.

No problem, if ms do not want to cater to these fans there is always companies that will step in and take full advantage of this. They had it all right there in the palm of their hands, now sit back and watch as it all slips away from them, and it serves them right to be honest.

Death1945d ago

With the Steambox it looks like Valve is trying to take on consoles.

Drekken1945d ago (Edited 1945d ago )

I think it is more of an attack on Microsoft.

"Valve boss Gabe Newell calls Windows 8 a 'catastrophe'"

He hasn't been happy with windows 8 and launched an attack. A free gaming centric operating system for PCs. That is a huge F you to MS.

kingdip901945d ago

Steambox for sure narrows the gap between consoles and pc's but I'm unsre as to whether they Will become direct competition, for a while at least

Death1945d ago

I highly doubt this is all from Windows 8. This takes planning and time. If we are hooking a Steam Box up to out tv's, that is direct competition to consoles. Most PC's are still in our offices/dens/ etc. PC online is still free. If we can play games that look better than the Xbox One or PS4 on out TV's and free online, don't you think some will find that appealing?

XtraTrstrL1945d ago

Awesome news! I guess I won't be rushing to get a PS4 just yet, I'll have to wait and watch how this all unfolds over the next few months first.

FrigidDARKNESS1945d ago (Edited 1945d ago )

Yap, this card replaces my ps4 purchase next year. This will probably be the only G-card you need in the next six years.

Its an app. Not a G-card but will get this anyway.

NarooN1945d ago

Lol it's not an "app" either. It's a new low-level high-performance-based API from AMD.

Hassassin1944d ago

it's not an app. Its a DX11 replacement (i.e. F M$)

fOrlOnhOpe571945d ago

Competition keeps the industry fresh, focused and forward thinking.

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